Re: Trump
« Reply #3460 on: December 18, 2018, 06:40:07 PM »
https://www.npr.org/2018/12/18/677778958/trump-foundation-to-dissolve-amid-new-york-ags-investigation
Oh look, the Trump foundation is being dissolved due to illegal activity before the Clinton Foundation despite the overwhelming evidence the Right has. Go figure.

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Offline timterroo

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Re: Trump
« Reply #3461 on: December 19, 2018, 07:53:58 PM »
My question is: why do conservatives support Trump?

What is conservative, or even republican, about Donald Trump? The fact that he hates immigrants, poor people, women, and has probably never had to worry about paying his electric bill does not make him some kind of conservative saint that will "Make America Great Again". Republicans are fooling themselves into thinking Trump will bring some sort of magical change to the political climate, or put a stop to careless spending of our government, or bring some sort of republican value back to American culture.

He's a misogynistic bigot who hates foreigners - he's a showboat. Just because he has an attractive European wife doesn't make him inclusive. His wife won't even hold his hand in public. It's appalling that in the midst of a "me too" movement with dozens of famed, wealthy people being fired, or jailed, that Trump gets to sit at the top with his high-hat on and is untouchable - even though Trump has personally admitted to being the instigator of multiple "me too" allegations.

Is Trump the example we want our children to follow? Allowing him to be in power says that it is.

The sad thing is, it's not just Trump who is creating this destructive image.... it's all of the politicians who sit up there in washington bickering back and forth. It's all the media outlets spewing ruthless tales. It's us common folk who aren't paying attention.

Why are republicans voting against their own interests? Trump is not a conservative. Trump doesn't know about the struggles of a common farmer - Trump has enacted policies that hurt farmers, yet they vote for him. Trump doesn't know about inner-city marginalization - poor and unprivileged. Trump doesn't know the thousands of families he has personally divided by his "executive orders" to deport and isolate immigrants. Immigrants who work jobs that Trump probably doesn't even know exist - the worst of the worst kinds of jobs.

Furthermore, I cannot trust a word he says. Trump blatantly lies, or just spouts nonsense because he doesn't know what else to say. I am embarrassed for Trump when he speaks. Worse, I am embarrassed to be an American. Is this the great America republicans voted for?... I certainly hope not. I am not conservative, nor liberal. Not republican nor democratic. I am for freedom, liberty, justice, peace, and union. Trump has proven that he is capable of taking away all of these things. No, Trump does not want to MAGA. Trump wants to MA his, and he is on his way to doing just that.
"noche te ipsum"

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."  - Albert Einstein

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Trump
« Reply #3462 on: December 19, 2018, 08:24:18 PM »
Trump was the only one willing to admit we're in a trade war with China, we have been for decades, and the only one willing to take serious steps against it.

Trump was the only one willing to draw down in countries like Syria and avoid the Libya debacle entirely.

Trump was the only one willing to loudly proclaim that we should, in fact, not flood our border with uneducated hordes of third world people.

Trump was the only one willing to tell NATO that they should stop demanding the US do something about Russia when they can't even bother to maintain their own defense forces. The Pentagon projected that without the US, the combined forces of NATO would LOSE a conventional war against Russia. Russia's GDP is only a fraction of the EU's! That's disgraceful.

Trump refused the UN migration treaty and refused the Paris Climate Change agreement, both of which were merely ways to take American taxpayer money and distribute it to other nations with no real way of ensuring it is used to do anything other than line foreign pockets. People need to stop falling for the "moral high ground" meme. If a treaty is wrapped up in the morality of "well you need to sign this or you'll look really bad!" then be very suspicious of the fine print. These agreements are usually a trojan horse. The Paris Climate Change agreement is about climate change as much as the People's Republic of China is a republic.


Trump isn't the perfect conservative, but he was better than the other tools who would be Bush 2.0 and start throwing money to other nations and invading the Middle East like it was a god-given right. Trump is doing so many things right that even Fox has started to hate on him quite a bit. I love it. I love anyone that each media channel absolutely despises, because clearly they're doing something right. My only concern is that Trump is far too pro-Israel. In fact my primary concern is that EVERY politician is too pro-Israel. Zionist scum.

« Last Edit: December 19, 2018, 08:27:32 PM by Rushy »

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Offline timterroo

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Re: Trump
« Reply #3463 on: December 19, 2018, 09:31:21 PM »
Trump is doing so many things right that even Fox has started to hate on him quite a bit. I love it. I love anyone that each media channel absolutely despises, because clearly they're doing something right.

As much as I hate to admit it (since, well, you and I never agree  ;)), I tend to agree with this philosophy. Media isn't just about free speech, and "freedom of the press"... They have an agenda, and they mean to persuade their viewers. This makes it hard to put stock into any politician since, the most genuine, honest, politicians aren't heard of - the media doesn't get good ratings by talking about honesty.
"noche te ipsum"

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."  - Albert Einstein

Re: Trump
« Reply #3464 on: December 19, 2018, 10:28:31 PM »
I disagree with Rushy.  Trump is supported because of two reasons.


1. He simplifies complex problems verbally without understanding what he's saying.  This isn't to say he's actually found a way to make it simple but rather states one very narrow viewpoint very loudly and often.  And because his base already thinks these simple things (All mexicans are bad, immigrants are lazy, immigrants steal jobs, Chinese manufacturing takes American Jobs and we shouldn't let that happen, etc...) he basically just says what people who don't understand the complexity of the situation are thinking.  "Just build a wall.  How is that so hard?" completely ignores the massive legal issues, manpower issues, resource issues, environmental issues, and actual construction problems.  All because a sizable portion of people don't know them.


2. He's the Republican candidate for president/A Republican President.  Remember, America is a 2 party system.  The entire government is designed to operate with only two major parties.  As such, come election time, you really only have 2 option: Red or Blue.  Even 3rd parties, like the Tea Party, get absorbed into one of the two groups rather than stand alone like in a Parliamentary system.  So as a republican you really have no choice but to support him, otherwise you're forced to support the other side.  (If you're not with us, you're against us kina thing.)


In the end, Trump's support has nothing to do with his actual policies.  I mean, do you really think the average voter has even READ the Paris Accords?  No, they just know it's about climate change and if your republican president says it's bad, most republicans will just agree and move along.  Same with immigrants.  Same with Syria and China.  Same with NATO and NAFTA.  Hell, the man has said his own administration is corrupt or incompetent(What does the CIA know?) and he's still cheered.  Yes, he installed the CIA director so I'm gonna claim that it's his CIA.  Same with the DoJ. 

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Trump
« Reply #3465 on: December 20, 2018, 12:13:25 AM »
Yeah, I think Rushy is assuming a level of education on the issues that most of his base, most any voter really, frankly doesn’t have. It’s more likely that people liked him for reasons such as, “He speaks like I do!” or that they believed he would boost manufacturing jobs back.
You don't get races of anything ... accept people.

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Offline timterroo

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Re: Trump
« Reply #3466 on: December 20, 2018, 01:46:10 PM »
Yeah, I think Rushy is assuming a level of education on the issues that most of his base, most any voter really, frankly doesn’t have. It’s more likely that people liked him for reasons such as, “He speaks like I do!” or that they believed he would boost manufacturing jobs back.

I don't want to insult anyone or be presumptuous about someone's intelligence, but since I spend the majority of my waking life surrounded by intellectuals (professors, scientists, etc.), I feel confident in saying there is a statistical significance correlating educated people with being anti-trump. That isn't to say uneducated people tend to support trump, but it does say that educated people tend NOT to support trump.

One should also consider other factors, however, such as having the means to watch television and pay attention to media. Educated people may be more likely to be in a situation to observe media and be suckered into it, for instance.
"noche te ipsum"

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."  - Albert Einstein

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Offline honk

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Re: Trump
« Reply #3467 on: December 21, 2018, 05:06:10 AM »
https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/20/politics/donald-trump-james-mattis-out/index.html

People keep quitting! It's almost as if the Trump Administration is a bad place to work. :-\

ur retartet but u donut even no it and i walnut tell u y

Re: Trump
« Reply #3468 on: December 21, 2018, 12:41:00 PM »
You Trump bashers are so cute!

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Trump
« Reply #3469 on: December 21, 2018, 01:23:16 PM »
You Trump bashers are so cute!

You always Trumpers are weird. It’s like you don’t care if POTUS does a good job, only that he plays for your team. Same as Democrats I guess. Maybe one day Americans will make an adult assessment of their government. (Lol)
You don't get races of anything ... accept people.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Trump
« Reply #3470 on: December 21, 2018, 04:55:21 PM »
Mattis quit over Syria. Not sure what to think about this one. I generally like the idea of the US finally leaving Syria and Afghanistan, but I don't like that it cost Mattis to do it.

Re: Trump
« Reply #3471 on: December 22, 2018, 11:06:12 AM »
Syria rreminds me of Vietnam.  Except Trump loves Russia.




Also:
Shutdown.  Again.


https://www.npr.org/2018/12/22/679424044/government-shuts-down-ahead-of-holiday-over-stalemate-on-border-wall-funding


You'd think having all three branches would prevent this stuff.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2018, 11:12:18 AM by Lord Dave »

Re: Trump
« Reply #3472 on: December 22, 2018, 02:33:04 PM »
trump is an amazing negotiator.  the best.
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Offline Rushy

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Re: Trump
« Reply #3473 on: December 22, 2018, 04:08:15 PM »
Syria rreminds me of Vietnam.  Except Trump loves Russia.

Afghanistan is closer to a Vietnam style war. The Soviets learned Afghanistan was a waste of time decades ago, it seems that America has still refused to read history books on the subject. We're still there in Afghanistan, fighting a fight we can literally never win, wasting resources and lives on the entire endeavor.

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Offline timterroo

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Re: Trump
« Reply #3474 on: December 22, 2018, 04:19:38 PM »
Syria rreminds me of Vietnam.  Except Trump loves Russia.

Afghanistan is closer to a Vietnam style war. The Soviets learned Afghanistan was a waste of time decades ago, it seems that America has still refused to read history books on the subject. We're still there in Afghanistan, fighting a fight we can literally never win, wasting resources and lives on the entire endeavor.

When America fights pointless "wars", I always ask the question: what resources does this country have that America wants?
"noche te ipsum"

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."  - Albert Einstein

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Trump
« Reply #3475 on: December 22, 2018, 04:39:21 PM »
Syria rreminds me of Vietnam.  Except Trump loves Russia.

Afghanistan is closer to a Vietnam style war. The Soviets learned Afghanistan was a waste of time decades ago, it seems that America has still refused to read history books on the subject. We're still there in Afghanistan, fighting a fight we can literally never win, wasting resources and lives on the entire endeavor.

When America fights pointless "wars", I always ask the question: what resources does this country have that America wants?

The same amount of resources that Vietnam had. Instead of attributing our pointless wars to some super-villain level of ulterior motives, instead, just accept it for what it is: stupidity. It was stupidity that kept the Soviets in Afghanistan and it's stupidity that keeps the Americans there, too. It also includes a healthy dose of arrogance. The only way to truly conquer Afghanistan is the same way empires of old did it: kill the men and enslave the women. Since neither the Soviets nor Americans are this level of diabolical, they'll never rule Afghanistan.

Re: Trump
« Reply #3476 on: December 23, 2018, 07:36:13 AM »
https://www.npr.org/2018/12/22/679535003/u-s-envoy-to-the-coalition-against-isis-resigns-over-trumps-syria-policy


And another one leaves.  Either Trump is pulling a Bush wih "Mission Accomplished", he's being an ass cause he'll be a lame duck president next month, or he's helping Russia.


Not sure which cause all three are pretty likely.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Trump
« Reply #3477 on: December 23, 2018, 03:46:09 PM »
The only issue with Syria and Russia was the gas pipeline being built. Europe wanted it and Russia didn't. Well guess what, if Europe wants the damn pipeline so bad then how about they start sending a lot more people down there to fight. Sending down a few dozen people to use US assets and pretend they're helping is a joke.

Having Syria helps Russia a lot and it hurts Europe. The US isn't affected. Europe needs to start fighting its own proxy wars instead of begging daddy America to beat up Russia for them.

Re: Trump
« Reply #3478 on: December 24, 2018, 09:58:32 AM »
The only issue with Syria and Russia was the gas pipeline being built. Europe wanted it and Russia didn't. Well guess what, if Europe wants the damn pipeline so bad then how about they start sending a lot more people down there to fight. Sending down a few dozen people to use US assets and pretend they're helping is a joke.

Having Syria helps Russia a lot and it hurts Europe. The US isn't affected. Europe needs to start fighting its own proxy wars instead of begging daddy America to beat up Russia for them.


Not from what I understand.


This civil war was a long time coming and when the French promised weapons to the rebels, they went all out.


Then the french reversed course.  Kinda fucked them over.  And helping fight dictators to liberate the underdogs is kinda what America does.  Especially when it makes oil prices to jump and causes a flood of refugees.


But now the french are there, apparently.  I seem to have lost some info in translation.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2018, 10:12:39 AM by Lord Dave »

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Trump
« Reply #3479 on: December 24, 2018, 01:51:58 PM »
The only issue with Syria and Russia was the gas pipeline being built. Europe wanted it and Russia didn't. Well guess what, if Europe wants the damn pipeline so bad then how about they start sending a lot more people down there to fight. Sending down a few dozen people to use US assets and pretend they're helping is a joke.

Having Syria helps Russia a lot and it hurts Europe. The US isn't affected. Europe needs to start fighting its own proxy wars instead of begging daddy America to beat up Russia for them.


Not from what I understand.


This civil war was a long time coming and when the French promised weapons to the rebels, they went all out.


Then the french reversed course.  Kinda fucked them over.  And helping fight dictators to liberate the underdogs is kinda what America does.  Especially when it makes oil prices to jump and causes a flood of refugees.


But now the french are there, apparently.  I seem to have lost some info in translation.

The EU and Qatar wanted a natural gas pipeline built through Syria. Assad, backed by Russia, told them no. Then, as if by magic, it was decided that Assad is evil and must be overthrown.

If you haven't noticed, overthrowing dictators is not something that has drastically improved the area. We killed Hussein and we killed Gaddafi. Has Iraq or Libya improved? No. Only more chaos, which is apparently our end goal at this point.

Just check out Central and South America if you want some more examples of the US destroying a nation's stability in the name of "liberating underdogs".