[honk]

{"We the people of the United States..."}

"...do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." The Preamble is literally just saying who wrote the Constitution and why. The text of the Constitution and its amendments are very clear that the rights and freedoms it describes are for everyone, not just Americans.

[Action80]

Constitutions are written for the country and its citizens.

End of argument.

[Lord Dave]

Constitutions are written for the country and its citizens.

End of argument.

Wait... Are you actually arguing that no one who isn't a US citizen is bound or protected by the constitution?  Because that's a bold statement that seems to be ignored by all legal history.

[Tom Bishop]

That is possibly true but has not been confirmed. There is a lot of confusion about this. What there is no confusion about is she has never considered herself or been considered male. She was assigned female at birth, brought up as a female and competed as a female.

The only person claiming to be confused here is you though. This isn't how it works. Most trans people acknowledge that they have a certain biological sex that is out of their control, and is independent of the social gender preference. You are here essentially claiming that the athlete in question is equivalent to a biological woman because she was brought up as female. That is incorrect. What she considers herself to be is irrelevant to her actual biological sex.

The chief executive of the world championship organization that banned her stated in the conference that she failed the chromosome test and you guys are here crying "that's not confirmed" and that the statement of the organization is "some dude's word". Delusional.

If we look at your arguments you are simultaneously claiming that it matters that she isn't biologically female and that she failed the test you are trying to discredit, and it also doesn't matter if she is one because she wore a dress as a child. Maybe you should just come out admit that you don't care about biology and anyone is a biological woman if they say that they are.

[garygreen]

The chief executive of the world championship organization that banned her stated in the conference that she failed the chromosome test

right. or: some dude says she failed a test. you can change "says" to "stated" if you want, i guess. not sure what difference it makes.

is your argument really that he can't possibly be lying since he's the head of an organization? are you listening to yourself?

[Pete Svarrior]

The thing that makes this really funny is that if we go by the "chromosomes are absolute" logic, then the rightoids are going to have to leave intersex people alone, rather than threatening them for pissing in the correct piss room

Of course that's never going to happen, because that would require some internally consistent train of thought, but it's a fun idea nonetheless. But it is, ultimately, going to advance laws and culture in the exact opposite direction from what they want. So that's funny, too.

[Lord Dave]

https://www.iba.sport/news/statement-made-by-the-international-boxing-association-regarding-athletes-disqualifications-in-world-boxing-championships-2023/

https://www.iba.sport/news/iba-clarifies-the-facts-the-letter-to-the-ioc-regarding-two-ineligible-boxers-was-sent-and-acknowledged/

I'mma just gonna leave these here since no one likes to post links.

Given that at least Imane wouldn't have been assigned female at birth if she had a penis, it's clear she has a vagina.  Which is the primary determination of "woman" for most of the world.

[Action80]

Constitutions are written for the country and its citizens.

End of argument.

Wait... Are you actually arguing that no one who isn't a US citizen is bound or protected by the constitution?  Because that's a bold statement that seems to be ignored by all legal history.

Anyone who is not a US Citizen is not entitled to the rights granted in the US Constitution.

It is entirely possible they may receive them by persons subverting the Constitution.

If the US Constitution was good enough on its own, other countries would not have written their own.

[AATW]

Most trans people

She isn't trans. It does not matter how many times you repeat that lie. It doesn't matter how many times Trump repeats it.
Repeating something which is a lie doesn't make it true.

What she considers herself to be is irrelevant to her actual biological sex.

This is correct. But she was assigned female at birth, has been brought up female, has always considered herself female. Has always competed as female without incident, till last year. Trump's claim that she was ever a "good male boxer" is incorrect. She has never competed against men. His claim that she has "transitioned" is incorrect. She is female, she has always been female as far as she or anyone else knew.

Now. It is possible that she has a genetic condition which means she is genetically a male, and was assigned female at birth because she has female genitals. As Pete alluded to, it's interesting how you now suddenly care about someone's genetics, I thought your lot were always concerned with what was in someone's pants. There have been some claims about her genetics but they haven't released the test results. You're right, it's not just some bloke making the claim. But the person who is making it doesn't sound particularly credible either:

In a long and rambling presentation, Kremlev meandered from personal attacks against Bach to railing against the Paris Olympics' opening ceremony and defending his own fight against corruption... Kremlev also said tests had shown both boxers had high levels of testosterone, without providing further details. The IBA's doctor Ioannis Filippatos said testosterone had not been tested for.

https://www.reuters.com/sports/olympics/gender-row-boxers-were-disqualified-world-championships-after-chromosome-test-2024-08-05/

So the latter claim about testosterone is contradicted by one of his own doctors. Compelling.
I know you need him to be right because it's feeds into your bigotry but that doesn't mean he is right. And it actually doesn't matter if he's right.
If she is genetically male and thus has an advantage over other female boxers then there is a case that she shouldn't be allowed to compete. But that STILL doesn't mean she was ever a "good male boxer" or that she has "transitioned". Those things are still lies regardless of the truth of her genetics.

If we look at your arguments you are simultaneously claiming that it matters that she isn't biologically female and that she failed the test you are trying to discredit, and it also doesn't matter if she is one because she wore a dress as a child. Maybe you should just come out admit that you don't care about biology and anyone is a biological woman if they say that they are.

By "look at" your arguments you mean "completely misrepresent" them, of course.
The truth of this does matter. But, again, this isn't an "I iDeNtIfY aS aN aTtAcK hElIcOpTeR" case. This isn't someone who was brought up male and has suddenly decided that he wants to be a female to give him an unfair advantage. She has always "identified as" a female, and always been identified as one from birth. She is not "trans", she has not "transitioned". Those things are lies and will continue to be untrue no matter how many times you repeat them.

[AATW]

Trump on TruthSocial:

“What are the chances that Crooked Joe Biden, the WORST President in the history of the U.S., whose Presidency was Unconstitutionally STOLEN from him by Kamabla, Barrack HUSSEIN Obama, Crazy Nancy Pelosi, Shifty Adam Schiff, Cryin’ Chuck Schumer, and others on the Lunatic Left, CRASHES the Democrat National Convention and tries to take back the Nomination, beginning with challenging me to another DEBATE. He feels that he made a historically tragic mistake by handing over the U.S. Presidency, a COUP, to the people in the World he most hates, and he wants it back, NOW!!!”

He's a stable genius, you know...

[Lord Dave]

Did Biden try to get the nomination back?  Seems like something he would not do.

[Roundy]

Did Biden try to get the nomination back?  Seems like something he would not do.

Only in Trump's fevered imagination. He so badly wants to run against Biden instead of Harris he's hallucinating Biden fighting for the nomination back!

[Tom Bishop]

By "look at" your arguments you mean "completely misrepresent" them, of course.
The truth of this does matter. But, again, this isn't an "I iDeNtIfY aS aN aTtAcK hElIcOpTeR" case. This isn't someone who was brought up male and has suddenly decided that he wants to be a female to give him an unfair advantage. She has always "identified as" a female, and always been identified as one from birth. She is not "trans", she has not "transitioned". Those things are lies and will continue to be untrue no matter how many times you repeat them.

She knowingly transitioned the moment she learned that she was not biologically female and called herself a female anyway.

Transitioning does not involve any official application or registration process. Transitioning occurs when you call yourself a gender that you are not the biological sex of. Your prior ignorance of your biological sex isn't a factor in that. Therefore, she transitioned. It's that simple.

[Lord Dave]

By "look at" your arguments you mean "completely misrepresent" them, of course.
The truth of this does matter. But, again, this isn't an "I iDeNtIfY aS aN aTtAcK hElIcOpTeR" case. This isn't someone who was brought up male and has suddenly decided that he wants to be a female to give him an unfair advantage. She has always "identified as" a female, and always been identified as one from birth. She is not "trans", she has not "transitioned". Those things are lies and will continue to be untrue no matter how many times you repeat them.

She knowingly transitioned the moment she learned that she was not biologically female and called herself a female anyway.

Transitioning does not involve any official application or registration process. Transitioning occurs when you call yourself a gender that you are not the biological sex of. Your prior ignorance of your biological sex isn't a factor in that. Therefore, she transitioned. It's that simple.

Apparently Tom doesn't understand transitioning either.  Weird.

Let me ask you Tom: if you were told one day that your penis was actually a malformed, inside out vagina ... How fast would you act, dress, and become a woman?  Would you change all your speech, mannerisms, and habits so quickly?  Would you abandon your relationships and start looking for men to date?  Would you change your birth certificate if allowed?

[Tom Bishop]

None of those activities or intricacies is required to transition. All that is required is to call yourself a gender that you are not the biological sex of. It's a thought, that you are a gender despite your biological match. This is why she transitioned.

Many of the official definitions of gender transition say that transitioning is when you change from the gender you were assigned at birth, but this definition is assuming that they got it correct. They are allowed to revise later and tell you they got it wrong, of course. In all the definitions of gender transitioning the definitions are primarily concerned with what you think versus what the officials assigned you as. The definitions are about you vs. officials. Your true biological sex is not what you think, it's about what the officials think. In this fighter's case they were told their true sex, or at least what sex she was not, by accredited laboratories later into her life. They revised information about her sex that she was supposed to receive at birth. When she went against that assignment, she transitioned.

[AATW]

Apparently Tom doesn't understand transitioning either.  Weird.

He’s made that clear from the start.
Imagine thinking that doing nothing and continuing to identify as the gender you were born, raised and have always identified as is “transitioning”. He’s clearly trolling or so deep in the Trump cult he will bend reality as much as he needs in order to do anything but admit that Trump is wrong about anything. Either way it’s not worth engaging with.
It’s a bit depressing how successful Trump has been in convincing his followers that not only he speaks the truth, when he demonstrably doesn’t, but things are true because he says them.

[Tom Bishop]

Imagine thinking that doing nothing and continuing to identify as the gender you were born, raised and have always identified as is “transitioning”.

You are just making things up though. Transitioning is in relation to what officials assign you as. See this definition from the American Psychological Association:

https://www.apa.org/monitor/2018/09/ce-corner-glossary/

"Transition: The process of shifting toward a gender role different from that assigned at birth, which can include social transition, such as new names, pronouns and clothing, and medical transition, such as hormone therapy or surgery."

Now, they are supposed to get the biological sex correct at birth, and they usually do. In this case the medical establishment came back later and gave the correct information.

Although the definition doesn't specifically detail what happens when the officials make a mistake, we can clearly see that gender transitioning is transitioning from what the officials think, not what you think. Your arguments about wearing a dress and thinking that you are a girl have no bearing.

[Roundy]

Apparently Tom doesn't understand transitioning either.  Weird.

Is it though? I mean Tom's definitely weird but this seems entirely on brand to me.

[AATW]

Apparently Tom doesn't understand transitioning either.  Weird.

Is it though? I mean Tom's definitely weird but this seems entirely on brand to me.

It’s quite funny to watch someone who is so furious about the very idea that someone could transition now being furious about someone not transitioning and pretending they have 

[Lord Dave]

https://www.cpr.org/2024/08/12/tina-peters-trial-verdict/

So apparently its illegal to use someone else's identity to copy voting machine records and give them to a retired surfer.
Go figure!

Although this one made me realize the defense had nothing or they though the jury were stupid.

He mused to jurors about why the jury was not shown the video that was leaked online and why Hayes wasn’t subpoenaed for the trial.

“Well, why didn't they produce him? He's the key to the whole case, but they didn't have the guts to call him as a witness,” Case said. “They knew what he would say.”

Because the obvious answer is "Why didn't you do it, then?"