Re: Trump
« Reply #1140 on: April 14, 2017, 12:13:04 AM »
i was only bringing it up to be super smug about rushy et al. excoriating me for calling russia an ally and north korea a national security threat.
Do you think us comparing you to Sean Spicer instead would make things better?

i actually feel kinda bad for spicer.  the hitler/syria gaffe is gonna be at the top of his wikipedia page for eternity.  or at least until there's no more wikipedia, i guess. 
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #1141 on: April 14, 2017, 02:08:25 AM »
It's actually pretty obvious what he was saying. Spicer said that even Hitler didn't use chemical weapons. He is saying that Hitler didn't use chemical weapons as a method of warfare like Syria is doing. Hitler didn't use chemical weapons in the battlefield against the Allies, or against their cities, which is a much discussed topic among military historians, as their use could have altered the outcome of the war. This is clearly what Spicer is referencing.

What Spicer said is not a gaffe at all. The gas used in the Holocaust is used under a different context to what Syria is doing; the execution of prisoners (however unjust), not a weapon of warfare. It is transparent and ignorant that liberals would nitpick to that level, asserting that  the comments are insensitive, some even comparing it to Holocaust denial.

That's the tactic: to create outrage where there is none, to take something entirely reasonable and innocuous and blow it out of proportion and give it hidden meanings. Pathetic.
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Offline Roundy

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Re: Trump
« Reply #1142 on: April 14, 2017, 02:19:20 AM »
It's actually pretty obvious what he was saying. Spicer said that even Hitler didn't use chemical weapons. He is saying that Hitler didn't use chemical weapons as a method of warfare like Syria is doing. Hitler didn't use chemical weapons in the battlefield against the Allies, or against their cities, which is a much discussed topic among military historians, as their use could have altered the outcome of the war. This is clearly what Spicer is referencing.

What Spicer said is not a gaffe at all. The gas used in the Holocaust is used under a different context to what Syria is doing; the execution of prisoners (however unjust), not a weapon of warfare. It is transparent and ignorant that liberals would nitpick to that level, asserting that  the comments are insensitive, some even comparing it to Holocaust denial.

That's the tactic: to create outrage where there is none, to take something entirely reasonable and innocuous and blow it out of proportion and give it hidden meanings. Pathetic.

I don't think anything you say here makes his comment any less insensitive.  I get the context but look at the exact quote - "You know, you had someone as despicable as Hitler who didn't even sink to using chemical weapons."  He is in fact ignoring one of Hitler's great atrocities with that comment.  If he had qualified by saying "in the course of warfare" it would have been more justified.  He didn't, and someone who's job it is to speak publicly should know better. 

I agree that the liberal media has blown it a bit out of proportion, and I agree that this is a persistent issue with the media.  But you can't really justify your statement that it wasn't an insensitive comment. 
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #1143 on: April 14, 2017, 02:40:33 AM »
I don't think anything you say here makes his comment any less insensitive.  I get the context but look at the exact quote - "You know, you had someone as despicable as Hitler who didn't even sink to using chemical weapons."  He is in fact ignoring one of Hitler's great atrocities with that comment.  If he had qualified by saying "in the course of warfare" it would have been more justified.  He didn't, and someone who's job it is to speak publicly should know better. 

I agree that the liberal media has blown it a bit out of proportion, and I agree that this is a persistent issue with the media.  But you can't really justify your statement that it wasn't an insensitive comment.

Look at the full quote. It is entirely clear that he is talking about warfare:

Quote from: Sean Spicer
Spicer: I think a couple things. You, look — we didn't use chemical weapons in World War II. You know, you had someone as despicable as Hitler who didn't even sink to using chemical weapons. So you have to, if you're Russia, ask yourself, is this a country that you and a regime that you want to align yourself with? You have previously signed international agreements rightfully acknowledging that the use of chemical weapons should be out of bounds by every country. To not stand up to not only [inaudible] but your own word should be troubling. Russia put their name on the line. So it's not a question of how long that alliance has lasted. But at what point do they recognize that they are now getting on the wrong side of history in a really bad way really quickly? And again, look at the countries that are standing with them. Iran, Syria, North Korea. This is not a team that you want to be on. And I think that Russia has to recognize that, while they may have had an alliance with them, the lines that have been crossed are ones that no country should ever want to see another country cross.
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Re: Trump
« Reply #1144 on: April 14, 2017, 02:53:01 AM »
But you digress: You said the American people don't like Republican health care plans. How do you reconcile this with the fact that the American people overwhelmingly voted in favour of Republican healthcare plans?

Well first off, they didn't. Democrats won the popular vote for president, the popular vote in the Senate (by 11 percentage points), and lost the House by only 1 percentage point. It's not exactly overwhelming if we're considering how people voted.

Second, I say that people don't like Republican health care plans since they overwhelming hated the one plan they brought to the table after seven years of voting to repeal Obamacare. I would assume they brought their best, but feel free to correct me if there is some other, better plan out there that people don't hate.

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Offline Roundy

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Re: Trump
« Reply #1145 on: April 14, 2017, 04:32:22 AM »
Look at the full quote. It is entirely clear that he is talking about warfare:

Well... yeah.  I acknowledged that.
I don't think anything you say here makes his comment any less insensitive.  I get the context but look at the exact quote - "You know, you had someone as despicable as Hitler who didn't even sink to using chemical weapons."  He is in fact ignoring one of Hitler's great atrocities with that comment.  If he had qualified by saying "in the course of warfare" it would have been more justified.  He didn't, and someone who's job it is to speak publicly should know better. 

I agree that the liberal media has blown it a bit out of proportion, and I agree that this is a persistent issue with the media.  But you can't really justify your statement that it wasn't an insensitive comment.

I don't think he was intentionally insulting millions of Jews.  Insensitivity doesn't have to be intentional. 
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Re: Trump
« Reply #1146 on: April 14, 2017, 04:44:30 AM »
What Spicer said is not a gaffe at all.

the criticism he's receiving from both sides of the isle indicates otherwise.

i feel bad for him precisely because i don't think he at all meant to diminish the holocaust, but it's pretty undeniable that it was an absurdly ignorant thing to say.
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #1147 on: April 14, 2017, 04:53:01 AM »
What Spicer said is not a gaffe at all.

the criticism he's receiving from both sides of the isle indicates otherwise.

i feel bad for him precisely because i don't think he at all meant to diminish the holocaust, but it's pretty undeniable that it was an absurdly ignorant thing to say.

The criticism by the Social Justice Warriors on the news is entirely manufactured. Haven't you realized that yet?

Quote
Reporter: Hey Sean, what do you think about Syrian chemical warfare?

Spicer: Well, we didn't use chemical weapons in WWII, and even Hitler didn't use them.

What an outrage! Lets just ignore that Spicer is directly comparing America's use of chemical weapons in warfare to Hitler's use of them and point out that Hitler used gas in the execution of prisoners! Holocaust denier!
« Last Edit: April 14, 2017, 06:31:52 AM by Tom Bishop »
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

Re: Trump
« Reply #1148 on: April 14, 2017, 04:54:17 AM »
« Last Edit: April 14, 2017, 04:59:13 AM by garygreen »
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #1149 on: April 14, 2017, 05:27:41 AM »
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distinction_without_a_difference

The criticism by the Social Justice Warriors on the news is entirely manufactured. Haven't you realized that yet?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/04/13/gop-rep-calls-for-spicers-resignation-after-hitler-comments.html

entirely manufactured.

The "criticism on both sides" is a result of inaccurate and slanted news reporting. This whole thing is clearly manufactured drama. If we look at the context it is pretty clear what Spicer is saying by any reasonable person.
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #1150 on: April 14, 2017, 05:40:38 AM »
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distinction_without_a_difference

The criticism by the Social Justice Warriors on the news is entirely manufactured. Haven't you realized that yet?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/04/13/gop-rep-calls-for-spicers-resignation-after-hitler-comments.html

entirely manufactured.

The "criticism on both sides" is a result of inaccurate and slanted news reporting. This whole thing is clearly manufactured drama. If we look at the context it is pretty clear what Spicer is saying by any reasonable person.


He is a public speaker for the president who made a comment that, while you can see his underlying meaning, is still vague enough to leave some doubt as to exactly what he meant.  Basically, he sucks at his job.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #1151 on: April 14, 2017, 06:14:12 AM »
He is a public speaker for the president who made a comment that, while you can see his underlying meaning, is still vague enough to leave some doubt as to exactly what he meant.  Basically, he sucks at his job.

The job of reporters is to fairly and accurately report the news. This was neither fair or accurate.

If everyone here can see it, then they can see it, and by reporting this sensationalism anyway they are not properly doing their jobs.
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #1152 on: April 14, 2017, 06:52:54 AM »
He is a public speaker for the president who made a comment that, while you can see his underlying meaning, is still vague enough to leave some doubt as to exactly what he meant.  Basically, he sucks at his job.

The job of reporters is to fairly and accurately report the news. This was neither fair or accurate.

If everyone here can see it, then they can see it, and by reporting this sensationalism anyway they are not properly doing their jobs.


Reading the whole quote again, I can't seem to find any words indicating battlefield.
And.... Wasn't the location bombed a civillian location, not a military target?


Regardless, I know what he meant because I'm assuming he knew about gas chambers.(which he called hallocaust centers?). His wording was still wrong and if I didn't assume a few things, easily taken as any "Hitler never used chemical weapons." Which would be wrong.


Again, he said something in a very very poor way that, while unintentional, was wrong from a certain point of view.


Stop me if I'm wrong but: Assad bombed a location of civillians, citizens of Syria, with chemical weapons in order to kill them, yes?  Because he doesn't want them to live in his country?




Re: Trump
« Reply #1153 on: April 14, 2017, 03:11:06 PM »
Stop me if I'm wrong but: Assad bombed a location of civillians, citizens of Syria, with chemical weapons in order to kill them, yes?  Because he doesn't want them to live in his country?

There is no conclusive evidence of that being the case. But of course, don't let evidence get in the way of a juicy story. Still waiting for proof of that Trump-Russia collusion. Apparently GCHQ was spying on Trump team after all, as speculated by Judge Napolitano. But what is the crime? Where is the evidence of it? Can anyone please tell us so we can get this saga over with?

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #1154 on: April 14, 2017, 03:19:32 PM »
Stop me if I'm wrong but: Assad bombed a location of civillians, citizens of Syria, with chemical weapons in order to kill them, yes?  Because he doesn't want them to live in his country?

There is no conclusive evidence of that being the case. But of course, don't let evidence get in the way of a juicy story. Still waiting for proof of that Trump-Russia collusion. Apparently GCHQ was spying on Trump team after all, as speculated by Judge Napolitano. But what is the crime? Where is the evidence of it? Can anyone please tell us so we can get this saga over with?


Trump knows.  He IS he president.  He should tell us.


Also, still waiting for evidence Hillary's did something illegal.  Or have we forgotten that since Trump won?

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Offline honk

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Re: Trump
« Reply #1155 on: April 14, 2017, 03:31:30 PM »
What an outrage! Lets just ignore that Spicer is directly comparing America's use of chemical weapons in warfare to Hitler's use of them and point out that Hitler used gas in the execution of prisoners! Holocaust denier!

Whoa, back up a little there buddy. Do you have any evidence that the Holocaust ever actually happened?
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Offline Rushy

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Re: Trump
« Reply #1156 on: April 14, 2017, 09:21:12 PM »
He is a public speaker for the president who made a comment that, while you can see his underlying meaning, is still vague enough to leave some doubt as to exactly what he meant.  Basically, he sucks at his job.

The job of reporters is to fairly and accurately report the news. This was neither fair or accurate.

If everyone here can see it, then they can see it, and by reporting this sensationalism anyway they are not properly doing their jobs.


Reading the whole quote again, I can't seem to find any words indicating battlefield.
And.... Wasn't the location bombed a civillian location, not a military target?


Regardless, I know what he meant because I'm assuming he knew about gas chambers.(which he called hallocaust centers?). His wording was still wrong and if I didn't assume a few things, easily taken as any "Hitler never used chemical weapons." Which would be wrong.


Again, he said something in a very very poor way that, while unintentional, was wrong from a certain point of view.


Stop me if I'm wrong but: Assad bombed a location of civillians, citizens of Syria, with chemical weapons in order to kill them, yes?  Because he doesn't want them to live in his country?

Well if you want to be exceedingly technical, the gas chambers didn't use chemical weapons, they used a pesticide. No, I'm not referring to the Holocaust victims as pests, Zyklon-B was literally just a re-purposed pesticide. A chemical weapon is a chemical created solely for use in warfare and munitions, like mustard gas, which the Germans refused to use in WWII.

It's still a bad analogy, but Spicer isn't technically wrong.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #1157 on: April 14, 2017, 10:43:44 PM »
In other Trump news:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/04/14/donald-trump-north-korea/100461308/
Donald Trump has been warned of an major event by North Korea this Saturday.  The President was spending Friday golfing and, presumably, Saturday as well in his Florida resort.

Remember when Obama went golfing during a crisis and Republicans crucified him?  Yeah.... Good times.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #1158 on: April 15, 2017, 01:56:35 AM »
Rushy is correct.

Google definition for 'chemical weapon':

    "A chemical weapon (CW) is a specialized munition that uses chemicals formulated to inflict death or harm on humans."

It appears that on top of everything else the reporters are ignorant of the subject matter.
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Re: Trump
« Reply #1159 on: April 15, 2017, 03:43:47 AM »
even hitler didn't murder nicole brown simpson

oj is worse than hitler

anyone who says otherwise is just ignorant of history
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