Re: Problems with the Bishop Experiment
« Reply #120 on: January 22, 2019, 11:50:39 PM »
Weak trolling, Tom.
Please provide the evidence for the Bishop experiment even having taken place.
If you can’t then, well, see the wise words in my signature...

I performed the experiment and documented my results. That's called evidence. Samuel Birley Rowbotham's documented evidence in Earth Not a Globe is evidence. You want evidence that the evidence is not all faked, which is absurd. The evidence is there in the reports.

Please learn what evidence is:

https://slideplayer.com/slide/5275592/



Can you point out where it says "YouTube videos only"?
Link to your results please.

Re: Problems with the Bishop Experiment
« Reply #121 on: January 23, 2019, 08:15:15 AM »
Link to your results please.
My guess is he's going to link us to the Wiki page where he says that the experiment definitely happened and those were definitely his results. Honest.
Strange, then, that he ignores this point in his own slide about evidence:
"It is important to have numerous pieces of evidence in order to prove your claim".
Maybe the response to that is that he claims to be able to repeat this "whenever he likes".
But that's just the equivalent of repeating the claim over and over again,
Repeating a lie doesn't make it true...

But I look forward to seeing his documentation.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Re: Problems with the Bishop Experiment
« Reply #122 on: January 23, 2019, 08:37:42 AM »
You want evidence that the evidence is not all faked, which is absurd.
No, I want evidence that you even did the experiment at all.
You saying you did IS evidence, but in that case so is me saying that I flew to California last week, repeated your experiment and couldn't see the distant beach at all.
So now what do we do, we have both provided "evidence".
Is my evidence good enough for you?

Anyone can claim anything on the internet. This is not just a claim that you walked down the shops and bought some groceries. Even if the earth were flat I am sceptical that you could have seen what you claim to have seen from that distance. The implication is there were no waves over 20 inches high across a 23 mile span of water open to the Pacific Ocean.
And I'm sceptical that you have optics good enough to have seen the things you claim to have seen so clearly from that distance.
It's fairly reasonable to expect to see some evidence of your claim other than "this is what I definitely did and this is what I definitely saw, honest"

I look forward to seeing your "documentation" although suspect it will just be a link to the Wiki page...
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

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Offline stack

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Re: Problems with the Bishop Experiment
« Reply #123 on: January 23, 2019, 08:57:40 AM »
You want evidence that the evidence is not all faked, which is absurd.
No, I want evidence that you even did the experiment at all.
You saying you did IS evidence, but in that case so is me saying that I flew to California last week, repeated your experiment and couldn't see the distant beach at all.
So now what do we do, we have both provided "evidence".
Is my evidence good enough for you?

Anyone can claim anything on the internet. This is not just a claim that you walked down the shops and bought some groceries. Even if the earth were flat I am sceptical that you could have seen what you claim to have seen from that distance. The implication is there were no waves over 20 inches high across a 23 mile span of water open to the Pacific Ocean.
And I'm sceptical that you have optics good enough to have seen the things you claim to have seen so clearly from that distance.
It's fairly reasonable to expect to see some evidence of your claim other than "this is what I definitely did and this is what I definitely saw, honest"

I look forward to seeing your "documentation" although suspect it will just be a link to the Wiki page...

To your point, if I 'flipped the script' and posted something here saying that I followed the bishop experiment to the letter and my results were that I couldn't see the beachgoers at all. In fact I couldn't see the beach at all and all that was obscured from my view fitted perfectly with RE calculations and out and out disproved the bishop experiment and FE. And claimed I did it many times at my leisure. All with the same result. And just left it at that. I would suspect there would be a tremendous pushback to provide times, dates, specific equipment used, still/video evidence, location coordinates, etc. Like is done/provided for every other claim except this one. The BEX seems to be exempt from the normal scrutiny.
Not much is known about the celestial bodies and their distances.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Problems with the Bishop Experiment
« Reply #124 on: January 23, 2019, 05:55:41 PM »
You saying you did IS evidence

Great. Evidence was provided. I see nothing left to discuss then.

Re: Problems with the Bishop Experiment
« Reply #125 on: January 23, 2019, 06:04:52 PM »
You saying you did IS evidence

Great. Evidence was provided. I see nothing left to discuss then.
But I provided evidence too.
I have repeated your experiment but got very different results. I couldn’t see the beach at all, much less people on it or playing right down the shoreline.
You don’t think we should discuss my evidence and try to understand why I got such different results?
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Offline ChrisTP

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Re: Problems with the Bishop Experiment
« Reply #126 on: January 24, 2019, 11:41:02 AM »
You want evidence that the evidence is not all faked, which is absurd.
That's rich considering how you seem to think all evidence against FET is faked. And if you don't think it's faked then how would you explain all evidence that proves the earth as a spheroid planet? and the biggest visual evidence of all is photos from america, Japan and china of the earth and the moon from a distance/in space (not including all the photoshop composite images which NASA have openly talked about). My guess is you'd expect evidence this wasn't faked, otherwise you assume it's faked. You can see videos of the satellites from the moon that are officially claimed to be real.

If you don't want evidence of faked evidence then I can only assume you're biased and unwilling to learn truth over your want/need of the earth to be flat. Why do you so badly want it to be flat that you're willing to outright dismiss everything that goes against your belief? If the earth turned out to be proven flat I would be laughing (heck I'd even have to say well done to you guys for knowing all along, you did good), I don't personally need or want the world to be spheroid, it's just proven to be so by multitudes of evidence.

Anyway, we cannot verify your personal claims anymore than we can verify a scientific paper, let alone the claims from your favourite books that say the world is flat. All we can do is understand and make sense of the information we have been given. My understanding, from all of the overwhelming information that we have, seems to be different from yours. I'd like to think that I can understand and make sense of things though (and also very aware of what I do not understand) and one of us has to be wrong. The evidence of evidence being faked is that you and everyone else cannot make sense or use of the evidence given. People that have built all of the technology for space travel understand it to be real and I'd take their word for it over yours, given you have very little credentials in comparison. That's not meant as an insult but I wouldn't trust a 5 year old to present findings on these subjects as much as I would a nasa employee, don't you agree? They're intelligent and smart people who've proven their credentials through actions.
Tom is wrong most of the time. Hardly big news, don't you think?

Jimmy McGill

Re: Problems with the Bishop Experiment
« Reply #127 on: January 24, 2019, 12:25:17 PM »
Tom says he did an experiment and it yielded flat earth results.
He wants people to have faith that he did it with no documentation. No videos, no photos, nothing.

Tom doesn't believe in the plethora of videos and images taken by various space agencies.

I think if I were to do an experiment, I would make sure that there isn't a shadow of a doubt for those I wish to convince. If I have something to hide on the other hand.....

Re: Problems with the Bishop Experiment
« Reply #128 on: January 24, 2019, 01:11:44 PM »
You saying you did IS evidence

Great. Evidence was provided. I see nothing left to discuss then.
Link please.

If your evidence of a flat earth is so amazing why are you not publishing it for the world to see?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Problems with the Bishop Experiment
« Reply #129 on: January 24, 2019, 06:10:30 PM »
Quote from: AllAroundTheWorld
But I provided evidence too.
I have repeated your experiment but got very different results. I couldn’t see the beach at all, much less people on it or playing right down the shoreline.
You don’t think we should discuss my evidence and try to understand why I got such different results?

That is nice that you went to the effort to do that. It sounds like the circumstance of your evidence speaks for itself.

That's rich considering how you seem to think all evidence against FET is faked.

I consider NASA's photos of a globe to be evidence. I also consider the evidence that NASA is faking space footage to be evidence.

I see that you didn't even bring that up in your rant. It sounds like only one of us is ignoring evidence here.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2019, 06:48:28 PM by Tom Bishop »

Offline iamcpc

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Re: Problems with the Bishop Experiment
« Reply #130 on: January 24, 2019, 07:15:15 PM »
You saying you did IS evidence

Great. Evidence was provided. I see nothing left to discuss then.
Link please.

If your evidence of a flat earth is so amazing why are you not publishing it for the world to see?

inquisitive there as been a lot of evidence published on this very forum. Some on youtube. Granted there are some flat earthers who believe that the earth is flat because elvis told them in the future but most of the people here are not like that. The problem for asking for evidence of a flat earth is that you are literally asking for evidence of conformation bias.


Here's a link where I outline a good amount of evidence that suggest that 1. there could be flaws/anomalies in the round earth system (such as how much of a building should be obscured by the curve of the earth) or 2. Observations which people say is evidence that suggest the shape of the earth is round could possibly be evidence of something else instead.

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=11815.msg179345#msg179345


The problem here is that round earthers and flat earthers alike (along with like 99% of the human race myself included) suffer some sort of conformation bias.
A round earther finds evidence which weakens a flat earth model and, because of conformation bias, claims the earth is round.
A round earther finds evidence which weakens a round earth model and, because of conformation bias, claims the earth is flat.

Something that will help you, and I know sure helped me is this:


As a round earther, to help avoid round earth conformation bias:
Don't think of it as evidence that the earth is flat. Think of it as evidence that suggests there very well could be some flaws/anomalies in the round earth system.

As a flat earther, to help avoid flat earth conformation bias:
Don't think of it as evidence that the earth is round. Think of it as evidence that suggests there very well could be some flaws/anomalies in the flat earth system.




« Last Edit: January 24, 2019, 07:19:13 PM by iamcpc »

Offline ChrisTP

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Re: Problems with the Bishop Experiment
« Reply #131 on: January 24, 2019, 09:56:05 PM »
Quote from: AllAroundTheWorld
But I provided evidence too.
I have repeated your experiment but got very different results. I couldn’t see the beach at all, much less people on it or playing right down the shoreline.
You don’t think we should discuss my evidence and try to understand why I got such different results?

That is nice that you went to the effort to do that. It sounds like the circumstance of your evidence speaks for itself.

That's rich considering how you seem to think all evidence against FET is faked.

I consider NASA's photos of a globe to be evidence. I also consider the evidence that NASA is faking space footage to be evidence.

I see that you didn't even bring that up in your rant. It sounds like only one of us is ignoring evidence here.
You misunderstand me, I'm not ranting and I don't appreciate you claiming as such to diminish my argument. Apologies for the slightly off topic tangent but NASA faking space footage isn't evidence, it's a claim and it's speculation. There are no witnesses, no whistle blowers. Just some people thinking it's not real with silly claims like "where were the stars?" or "shadows are all wrong" the latter being proven a false claim by Nvidia, professionals who analysed and recreated the moon landings using CG recently. A technology I happen to understand well, as I'm also a professional in CGI.

So then why should I believe you, a random person with no credentials making wild claims and speculative accusations based on a preconceived notion that the earth is 'definitely flat' and 'space travel doesn't exist' over professionals who've studied and proven themselves? Your 'evidence' is simply claims, it's not evidence. It's not unfounded, I know you've looked into things and I don't think you're trying to trick anyone, I don't think you're lying. I just think you're incorrect and don't seem realise. I assume you know the Dunning–Kruger effect, basically the less you know, the more you think you know and the more confident you are about your own knowledge. The more you know, the less you think you know and you aren't confident in your own knowledge. I became part of this forum because the more I saw people questioning spheroid earth, the more I realised I didn't know about it and so I set out for answers under the assumption that anything I know or think I know could be wrong. I am trying to learn and understand rather than trying to prove anything but I also find it important to call people out when they spout opinions and incorrect information as correct facts.

You seem extremely sure of yourself and yet time and time again you've shown to be wrong about a lot of things but refuse to acknowledge it. With such an obvious bias, with something to prove, I can't take your speculation as fact or evidence until you prove your findings and publish the data for everyone else to analyse and when you finally do that, you must be able to accept the constructive criticism and feedback you receive from other people who know what they're talking about which is the basic scientific way. Always assume you could be wrong, always try to correct your own bias. Always strive for all knowledge and not just the select information that helps your agenda.

So I say this, you have no proof that will hold up in a court as to whether the earth is flat or round, and you have no proof that NASA faked the moon landings or space travel in general. You have your speculative opinion on the matter which has no standing. On the other hand space agencies have their proof backed up with actual evidence, witnesses and photographic proof. If a fair and unbiased person was presented evidence from you and evidence from an astronaut, they'd win and you'd lose.

I want you to be able to prove yourself because I'm interested in the idea, I'll say again if the earth turned out to be flat, I would have no problem with that.  So far though, all real evidence is saying otherwise. You can't just say "but nasa are liars" because that only proves your bias. And it doesn't prove anything against other space agencies, especially when theres footage from Japanese technology like this;



Anyway, again sorry for the off-topic tangent but you just don't seem see it from your perspective Tom. Please show us actual, flawless proof of the flat earth without trying to avoid or ignore everything that proves otherwise. I would like to see your evidence.
Tom is wrong most of the time. Hardly big news, don't you think?

Re: Problems with the Bishop Experiment
« Reply #132 on: January 25, 2019, 09:18:01 AM »
You saying you did IS evidence

Great. Evidence was provided. I see nothing left to discuss then.
Link please.

If your evidence of a flat earth is so amazing why are you not publishing it for the world to see?

inquisitive there as been a lot of evidence published on this very forum. Some on youtube. Granted there are some flat earthers who believe that the earth is flat because elvis told them in the future but most of the people here are not like that. The problem for asking for evidence of a flat earth is that you are literally asking for evidence of conformation bias.


Here's a link where I outline a good amount of evidence that suggest that 1. there could be flaws/anomalies in the round earth system (such as how much of a building should be obscured by the curve of the earth) or 2. Observations which people say is evidence that suggest the shape of the earth is round could possibly be evidence of something else instead.

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=11815.msg179345#msg179345


The problem here is that round earthers and flat earthers alike (along with like 99% of the human race myself included) suffer some sort of conformation bias.
A round earther finds evidence which weakens a flat earth model and, because of conformation bias, claims the earth is round.
A round earther finds evidence which weakens a round earth model and, because of conformation bias, claims the earth is flat.

Something that will help you, and I know sure helped me is this:


As a round earther, to help avoid round earth conformation bias:
Don't think of it as evidence that the earth is flat. Think of it as evidence that suggests there very well could be some flaws/anomalies in the round earth system.

As a flat earther, to help avoid flat earth conformation bias:
Don't think of it as evidence that the earth is round. Think of it as evidence that suggests there very well could be some flaws/anomalies in the flat earth system.
If you doubt the shape of the earth why do you not do some work to find out what the shape is?