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Offline Boots

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Why is it hard to believe the earth is round?
« on: October 04, 2016, 02:58:42 AM »
What I want to know is why FEers think the earth is flat when we can see that the moon, sun and other planets are round.
My room contains 5 pieces of furniture. 4 of them are chairs. How dare you try to tell me that the 5th item might be a table?!

This logic is ludicrous. The Earth is not other planets. You can't ascertain anything about the Earth's shape merely from the shape of other celestial bodies.

The logic is not ludicrous. I agree that the fact that the other planets are round is not proof that the earth is round. It is definitely an indicator though. And for that matter, what shape do you really think the earth is? You say it's flat but what about the other dimension? Is it a cube? An icosahedron? People who say the earth is round do not mean that it is 100% spherical, only that it is somewhat spherical. Any three dimensional object has the characteristic that if you keep going in one direction you will eventually come back to your starting point. So when you say the earth is flat what exactly do you mean?

BTW I am interested in answers from members of this site, NOT links to rambling youtube videos.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2016, 03:07:15 AM by Boots »
“There are some ideas so absurd that only an intellectual could believe them.” - George Orwell

Re: Why is it hard to believe the earth is round?
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2016, 08:48:45 AM »
This might give an insight on the psychology of a Flat Earther:
http://www.livescience.com/24310-flat-earth-belief.html
"Science never solves a problem without creating ten more." - George Bernard Shaw

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: Why is it hard to believe the earth is round?
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2016, 10:51:45 AM »
This might give an insight on the psychology of a Flat Earther:
http://www.livescience.com/24310-flat-earth-belief.html
I noticed your signature, "Science never solves a problem without creating ten more", but of course the scientist just sees that as ten more challenges.
And your avatar does look amazingly like a well known scientist!  Welcome!

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Offline Boots

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Re: Why is it hard to believe the earth is round?
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2016, 11:38:08 AM »
This might give an insight on the psychology of a Flat Earther:
http://www.livescience.com/24310-flat-earth-belief.html

I read it. I'd say that pretty much sums it up. I found the following statement interesting:

Most conspiracy theorists adopt many fringe theories, even ones that contradict each other. Meanwhile, flat-earthers' only hang-up is the shape of the Earth. "If they were like other conspiracy theorists, they should be exhibiting a tendency toward a lot of magical thinking, such as believing in UFOs, ESP, ghosts, the Devil, or other unseen, intentional forces," Oliver wrote in an email. "It doesn't sound like they do, which makes them very anomalous relative to most Americans who believe in conspiracy theories."
“There are some ideas so absurd that only an intellectual could believe them.” - George Orwell

geckothegeek

Re: Why is it hard to believe the earth is round?
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2016, 04:56:37 PM »
 I can think of one example of why it might be hard to believe the earth is round.
If you were a corn or wheat farmer in Kansas, had never been to school  and had never been more than a few miles from your farm,   you might believe the earth was flat and it would be hard for you to believe the earth is round.
No offense intended to the farmers in Kansas. Where would we be without all the wheat and corn they produce ?
And I am sure most of them are reasonably intelligent.
It would be interesting to hear their side of the story.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2016, 05:04:55 PM by geckothegeek »

geckothegeek

Re: Why is it hard to believe the earth is round?
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2016, 05:01:12 PM »
I also read this::
"Conspiracy theories are developed because some people can't believe that things just happen."]

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Offline Boots

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Re: Why is it hard to believe the earth is round?
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2016, 08:54:28 PM »
What I want to know is why FEers think the earth is flat when we can see that the moon, sun and other planets are round.
My room contains 5 pieces of furniture. 4 of them are chairs. How dare you try to tell me that the 5th item might be a table?!

This logic is ludicrous. The Earth is not other planets. You can't ascertain anything about the Earth's shape merely from the shape of other celestial bodies.

The logic is not ludicrous. I agree that the fact that the other planets are round is not proof that the earth is round. It is definitely an indicator though. And for that matter, what shape do you really think the earth is? You say it's flat but what about the other dimension? Is it a cube? An icosahedron? People who say the earth is round do not mean that it is 100% spherical, only that it is somewhat spherical. Any three dimensional object has the characteristic that if you keep going in one direction you will eventually come back to your starting point. So when you say the earth is flat what exactly do you mean?


Also, if you believe the sun, moon and planets are globular but the earth is disc shaped, do you have any explanation as to why that would be? What forces would bring about the result that other celestial bodies would be globular but the earth would remain disc shaped? And why do we not see any other disc shaped celestial bodies?
“There are some ideas so absurd that only an intellectual could believe them.” - George Orwell

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Offline Boots

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Re: Why is it hard to believe the earth is round?
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2016, 09:01:44 PM »
I can think of one example of why it might be hard to believe the earth is round.
If you were a corn or wheat farmer in Kansas, had never been to school  and had never been more than a few miles from your farm,   you might believe the earth was flat and it would be hard for you to believe the earth is round.
No offense intended to the farmers in Kansas. Where would we be without all the wheat and corn they produce ?
And I am sure most of them are reasonably intelligent.
It would be interesting to hear their side of the story.

I have relatives who are farmers in Kansas as well as others who are land levelers. They use lasers and GPS systems to plant their crops with incredible precision, and to level the land in such a way that at any given point water will act as though it is on level ground. In order to do this they know very well that they need to account for the curvature of the earth when working over long distances. I am not aware that they have had any issues with light refraction but I am going to ask them about that the next chance I get.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2016, 09:04:57 PM by Boots »
“There are some ideas so absurd that only an intellectual could believe them.” - George Orwell

geckothegeek

Re: Why is it hard to believe the earth is round?
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2016, 03:43:49 AM »
I can think of one example of why it might be hard to believe the earth is round.
If you were a corn or wheat farmer in Kansas, had never been to school  and had never been more than a few miles from your farm,   you might believe the earth was flat and it would be hard for you to believe the earth is round.
No offense intended to the farmers in Kansas. Where would we be without all the wheat and corn they produce ?
And I am sure most of them are reasonably intelligent.
It would be interesting to hear their side of the story.

I have relatives who are farmers in Kansas as well as others who are land levelers. They use lasers and GPS systems to plant their crops with incredible precision, and to level the land in such a way that at any given point water will act as though it is on level ground. In order to do this they know very well that they need to account for the curvature of the earth when working over long distances. I am not aware that they have had any issues with light refraction but I am going to ask them about that the next chance I get.

I think that example would be better if you considered the Kansas farmer of the 1900's to the 1950's rather than 2016. There would be more chance then about him believing the earth was flat and finding it was hard for him to believe the earth was round.

For example, one of my favorite "picture books" is "U.S. 40 . Cross Section Of The United States Of America", by George R. Stewart. If you did not know better, just looking at the pictures he took in Kansas might lead you to find it easy to believe that the earth was flat and hard to believe that the earth was  round.  However, the pictures would dispel any doubts about the horizon being a distinct line, the distance to the horizon depending on the height of the photographer above the ground and not some imaginary  flat earth idea that you would see "an indistinct blur which fades away in an indefinite distance."  Mr. Stewart was very fortunate in having very clear weather when he took his pictures and they are very sharp, especially in showing the horizon.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2016, 03:51:35 AM by geckothegeek »

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Offline Boots

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Re: Why is it hard to believe the earth is round?
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2016, 05:29:26 AM »
I can think of one example of why it might be hard to believe the earth is round.
If you were a corn or wheat farmer in Kansas, had never been to school  and had never been more than a few miles from your farm,   you might believe the earth was flat and it would be hard for you to believe the earth is round.
No offense intended to the farmers in Kansas. Where would we be without all the wheat and corn they produce ?
And I am sure most of them are reasonably intelligent.
It would be interesting to hear their side of the story.

I have relatives who are farmers in Kansas as well as others who are land levelers. They use lasers and GPS systems to plant their crops with incredible precision, and to level the land in such a way that at any given point water will act as though it is on level ground. In order to do this they know very well that they need to account for the curvature of the earth when working over long distances. I am not aware that they have had any issues with light refraction but I am going to ask them about that the next chance I get.

I think that example would be better if you considered the Kansas farmer of the 1900's to the 1950's rather than 2016. There would be more chance then about him believing the earth was flat and finding it was hard for him to believe the earth was round.

For example, one of my favorite "picture books" is "U.S. 40 . Cross Section Of The United States Of America", by George R. Stewart. If you did not know better, just looking at the pictures he took in Kansas might lead you to find it easy to believe that the earth was flat and hard to believe that the earth was  round.  However, the pictures would dispel any doubts about the horizon being a distinct line, the distance to the horizon depending on the height of the photographer above the ground and not some imaginary  flat earth idea that you would see "an indistinct blur which fades away in an indefinite distance."  Mr. Stewart was very fortunate in having very clear weather when he took his pictures and they are very sharp, especially in showing the horizon.

Fair enough. I didn't mean to knock your suggestion. I looked up the book. If Amazon had a kindle version I would have bought it. But they just had hardcover versions.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2016, 06:01:20 AM by Boots »
“There are some ideas so absurd that only an intellectual could believe them.” - George Orwell

geckothegeek

Re: Why is it hard to believe the earth is round?
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2016, 07:38:05 PM »
I can think of one example of why it might be hard to believe the earth is round.
If you were a corn or wheat farmer in Kansas, had never been to school  and had never been more than a few miles from your farm,   you might believe the earth was flat and it would be hard for you to believe the earth is round.
No offense intended to the farmers in Kansas. Where would we be without all the wheat and corn they produce ?
And I am sure most of them are reasonably intelligent.
It would be interesting to hear their side of the story.

I have relatives who are farmers in Kansas as well as others who are land levelers. They use lasers and GPS systems to plant their crops with incredible precision, and to level the land in such a way that at any given point water will act as though it is on level ground. In order to do this they know very well that they need to account for the curvature of the earth when working over long distances. I am not aware that they have had any issues with light refraction but I am going to ask them about that the next chance I get.

I think that example would be better if you considered the Kansas farmer of the 1900's to the 1950's rather than 2016. There would be more chance then about him believing the earth was flat and finding it was hard for him to believe the earth was round.

For example, one of my favorite "picture books" is "U.S. 40 . Cross Section Of The United States Of America", by George R. Stewart. If you did not know better, just looking at the pictures he took in Kansas might lead you to find it easy to believe that the earth was flat and hard to believe that the earth was  round.  However, the pictures would dispel any doubts about the horizon being a distinct line, the distance to the horizon depending on the height of the photographer above the ground and not some imaginary  flat earth idea that you would see "an indistinct blur which fades away in an indefinite distance."  Mr. Stewart was very fortunate in having very clear weather when he took his pictures and they are very sharp, especially in showing the horizon.

Fair enough. I didn't mean to knock your suggestion. I looked up the book. If Amazon had a kindle version I would have bought it. But they just had hardcover versions.

Fair enough. No offense taken . I beliieve the farmer  of 1900 or maybe even 1950 would say just like the flat earthers say "It sure looks flat to me. I sure find it hard to believe that the earth is round."
« Last Edit: October 27, 2016, 07:41:11 PM by geckothegeek »