[Robaroni]

Loving and being loved is the core of human existence.

I asked what is more important than loving and being loved? What is your life worth if everyone you love disavows ever loving you? So if you disagree with my premise than you have to show me what is more important to your emotional well being.

R

[TotesNotReptilian]

Loving and being loved is the core of human existence.

I asked what is more important than loving and being loved? What is your life worth if everyone you love disavows ever loving you? So if you disagree with my premise than you have to show me what is more important to your emotional well being.

Once again, you have missed my point spectacularly. Whether I agree with the statement is beside the point. My point is that it is an opinion that you stated as a fact. Defining the "core" of human existence is not as cut and dry as you are presenting it. Ask 1000 people what the "core" of human existence is. Love will undoubtedly be a popular answer, but it certainly won't be the only answer.

Edit: Your previous post falls under the category "Lack of Intellectual Rigor: Missing the point of a post. Responding with points that are completely irrelevant to the arguments presented."

[Robaroni]

R
"Science? Science says let the weak die and have more healthier offspring for a better chance of genetic survival. Self preservation, man's greatest drive, even single cell organism strive for self preservation but we still give our life for the dying child."

TNR
"That's not what "science" says. The process of evolution tends to reward preservation of the species, but it doesn't necessarily instill an innate drive to preserve the species or self above all else."

I don't see anything in my statement referring to evolution. It's basic logic. Live and have more offspring, why give my life to save the sick dying one? Mathematically (science) my chances of genetic survival, if that's my goal, are better if I let let the weak die and continually to procreate.

R

[Robaroni]

Loving and being loved is the core of human existence.

I asked what is more important than loving and being loved? What is your life worth if everyone you love disavows ever loving you? So if you disagree with my premise than you have to show me what is more important to your emotional well being.

Once again, you have missed my point spectacularly. Whether I agree with the statement is beside the point. My point is that it is an opinion that you stated as a fact. Defining the "core" of human existence is not as cut and dry as you are presenting it. Ask 1000 people what the "core" of human existence is. Love will undoubtedly be a popular answer, but it certainly won't be the only answer.

Edit: Your previous post falls under the category "Lack of Intellectual Rigor: Missing the point of a post. Responding with points that are completely irrelevant to the arguments presented."

It's an observation, I've observed the effects and massive importance of love and being loved on individuals universally and from that I made the statement above. Again, you can disagree with it but you must give me something more profound than loving and being loved.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/sapient-nature/201401/the-need-love

"All of us have an intense desire to be loved and nurtured. The need to be loved, as Bowlby’s and others’ experiments have shown, could be considered one of our most basic and fundamental needs. "

Raj Raghunathan Ph.D.

" but it certainly won't be the only answer"

OK, than what's a better answer?

R

[Robaroni]

R
"Anger is fear, (unfulfilled expectations)."


TNR
 (Yes, there is often a correlation between anger and fear. No, they are NOT the same thing.

http://www.2knowmyself.com/relationship_between_anger_and_fear

"Behind anger always lies fear, Even if the angry person appears to be strong and in control fear will always be the reason behind his anger."

"Whenever you find yourself angry just ask yourself one question, what am I afraid of?
If you found yourself shouting at another driver then you might find that you were afraid of the damage that was going to happen to your car."

http://www.psychologyineverydaylife.net/2012/05/29/masks-of-anger-the-fears-that-your-anger-may-be-hiding/

"What Is Anger All About?
There is a strong relationship between anger and fear. Anger is the fight part of the age-old fight-or-flight response to threat."

R

[TotesNotReptilian]

R
"Anger is fear, (unfulfilled expectations)."


TNR
 (Yes, there is often a correlation between anger and fear. No, they are NOT the same thing.

http://www.2knowmyself.com/relationship_between_anger_and_fear

"Behind anger always lies fear, Even if the angry person appears to be strong and in control fear will always be the reason behind his anger."

"Whenever you find yourself angry just ask yourself one question, what am I afraid of?
If you found yourself shouting at another driver then you might find that you were afraid of the damage that was going to happen to your car."

http://www.psychologyineverydaylife.net/2012/05/29/masks-of-anger-the-fears-that-your-anger-may-be-hiding/

"What Is Anger All About?
There is a strong relationship between anger and fear. Anger is the fight part of the age-old fight-or-flight response to threat."

Once again, you missed my point spectacularly.

I agree, fear is often the reason behind anger. I agree that there is a strong relationship between the two. However, that is not my point.

You said "anger is fear". This is false.

[TotesNotReptilian]

R
"Science? Science says let the weak die and have more healthier offspring for a better chance of genetic survival. Self preservation, man's greatest drive, even single cell organism strive for self preservation but we still give our life for the dying child."

TNR
"That's not what "science" says. The process of evolution tends to reward preservation of the species, but it doesn't necessarily instill an innate drive to preserve the species or self above all else."

I don't see anything in my statement referring to evolution. It's basic logic. Live and have more offspring, why give my life to save the sick dying one? Mathematically (science) my chances of genetic survival, if that's my goal, are better if I let let the weak die and continually to procreate.

I brought up evolution because that's what you seemed to be referring to by "Science says". If your only goal is the survival of your individual genetics, then yes, mathematically (scientifically?) speaking, you should absolutely let the child die. However, that is not the most important goal of any species according to any scientific theory I have heard of, including evolution. Your premise is that "self preservation" is "man's greatest drive". This premise is not supported by evolution, or any scientific theory that I have heard of.

[TotesNotReptilian]

Loving and being loved is the core of human existence.

I asked what is more important than loving and being loved? What is your life worth if everyone you love disavows ever loving you? So if you disagree with my premise than you have to show me what is more important to your emotional well being.

Once again, you have missed my point spectacularly. Whether I agree with the statement is beside the point. My point is that it is an opinion that you stated as a fact. Defining the "core" of human existence is not as cut and dry as you are presenting it. Ask 1000 people what the "core" of human existence is. Love will undoubtedly be a popular answer, but it certainly won't be the only answer.

Edit: Your previous post falls under the category "Lack of Intellectual Rigor: Missing the point of a post. Responding with points that are completely irrelevant to the arguments presented."

It's an observation, ...

Fine. Present it as such. Not as a fact.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/sapient-nature/201401/the-need-love

"All of us have an intense desire to be loved and nurtured. The need to be loved, as Bowlby’s and others’ experiments have shown, could be considered one of our most basic and fundamental needs. "

Raj Raghunathan Ph.D.

Please notice the rather important qualifiers that I highlighted in red. could be... one of...

" but it certainly won't be the only answer"

OK, than what's a better answer?

Completely irrelevant. It's just an opinion. Not a fact. Stop spouting it off like it is an irrefutable fact.

[Robaroni]

R
"Anger is fear, (unfulfilled expectations)."


TNR
 (Yes, there is often a correlation between anger and fear. No, they are NOT the same thing.

http://www.2knowmyself.com/relationship_between_anger_and_fear

"Behind anger always lies fear, Even if the angry person appears to be strong and in control fear will always be the reason behind his anger."

"Whenever you find yourself angry just ask yourself one question, what am I afraid of?
If you found yourself shouting at another driver then you might find that you were afraid of the damage that was going to happen to your car."

http://www.psychologyineverydaylife.net/2012/05/29/masks-of-anger-the-fears-that-your-anger-may-be-hiding/

"What Is Anger All About?
There is a strong relationship between anger and fear. Anger is the fight part of the age-old fight-or-flight response to threat."

Once again, you missed my point spectacularly.

I agree, fear is often the reason behind anger. I agree that there is a strong relationship between the two. However, that is not my point.

You said "anger is fear". This is false.

Don't be ridiculous! Read back at what I've said all along. Fear is the root of anger! Geeze, Semantics? Don't waste my time.

R

[Martin Luther II]

I noticed this question & thought I would try to answer. 1st off, in my experience, most denizens of this board ARE atheists. So you shouldn't have too much of a problem there. As far as Atheism as a concept, yes, 1 can be a moral atheist. I've known several. What is wrong w/ it is that although individuals can be moral, there is no morality to follow per se. Its all up to each person. That is dangerous. Look at what that does when the person is Stalin or Mao. State Atheism has killed far more people than religion could ever have imagined in the worst holy war. But this is NOT to say that Organised Religion is w/o fault. The fact is, imposing anything on anyone is a horrible thing. I have come to have a healthy respect for, but slight suspicion of, Organised Religion.

[Robaroni]

Loving and being loved is the core of human existence.

I asked what is more important than loving and being loved? What is your life worth if everyone you love disavows ever loving you? So if you disagree with my premise than you have to show me what is more important to your emotional well being.

Once again, you have missed my point spectacularly. Whether I agree with the statement is beside the point. My point is that it is an opinion that you stated as a fact. Defining the "core" of human existence is not as cut and dry as you are presenting it. Ask 1000 people what the "core" of human existence is. Love will undoubtedly be a popular answer, but it certainly won't be the only answer.

Edit: Your previous post falls under the category "Lack of Intellectual Rigor: Missing the point of a post. Responding with points that are completely irrelevant to the arguments presented."

It's an observation, ...

Fine. Present it as such. Not as a fact.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/sapient-nature/201401/the-need-love

"All of us have an intense desire to be loved and nurtured. The need to be loved, as Bowlby’s and others’ experiments have shown, could be considered one of our most basic and fundamental needs. "

Raj Raghunathan Ph.D.

Please notice the rather important qualifiers that I highlighted in red. could be... one of...

" but it certainly won't be the only answer"

OK, than what's a better answer?

Completely irrelevant. It's just an opinion. Not a fact. Stop spouting it off like it is an irrefutable fact.

Now you're just giving me garbage!

"but it certainly won't be the only answer"

So, again, CERTAINLY what's a better answer?? AND AGAIN, what is your life worth without loving and being loved? I'm still waiting for this answer too.

R

[TotesNotReptilian]

R
"Anger is fear, (unfulfilled expectations)."


TNR
 (Yes, there is often a correlation between anger and fear. No, they are NOT the same thing.

http://www.2knowmyself.com/relationship_between_anger_and_fear

"Behind anger always lies fear, Even if the angry person appears to be strong and in control fear will always be the reason behind his anger."

"Whenever you find yourself angry just ask yourself one question, what am I afraid of?
If you found yourself shouting at another driver then you might find that you were afraid of the damage that was going to happen to your car."

http://www.psychologyineverydaylife.net/2012/05/29/masks-of-anger-the-fears-that-your-anger-may-be-hiding/

"What Is Anger All About?
There is a strong relationship between anger and fear. Anger is the fight part of the age-old fight-or-flight response to threat."

Once again, you missed my point spectacularly.

I agree, fear is often the reason behind anger. I agree that there is a strong relationship between the two. However, that is not my point.

You said "anger is fear". This is false.

Don't be ridiculous! Read back at what I've said all along. Fear is the root of anger! Geeze, Semantics? Don't waste my time.

There is a huge difference between "anger is fear" and "anger is the root of fear" or "anger is related to fear". The fact that you don't seem to think so is exactly what I mean by "lack of intellectual rigor".

[Robaroni]

I noticed this question & thought I would try to answer. 1st off, in my experience, most denizens of this board ARE atheists. So you shouldn't have too much of a problem there. As far as Atheism as a concept, yes, 1 can be a moral atheist. I've known several. What is wrong w/ it is that although individuals can be moral, there is no morality to follow per se. Its all up to each person. That is dangerous. Look at what that does when the person is Stalin or Mao. State Atheism has killed far more people than religion could ever have imagined in the worst holy war. But this is NOT to say that Organised Religion is w/o fault. The fact is, imposing anything on anyone is a horrible thing. I have come to have a healthy respecct for, but slight suspicion of, Organised Religion.

Socialized religions are nonmoral, that is they contain both moral and immoral individuals. The problem with religions is that they substitute a system of beliefs that defer personal responsibility from the individual. My book says 'we should kill all those who think differently than us'.

No one is arguing that one cannot be a moral atheist. The problem with atheism is that the individual's mind is closed. If something greater than the self exists the atheist never sees it because the atheist has stopped inquiring. a priori

R

[Robaroni]

R
"Anger is fear, (unfulfilled expectations)."


TNR
 (Yes, there is often a correlation between anger and fear. No, they are NOT the same thing.

http://www.2knowmyself.com/relationship_between_anger_and_fear

"Behind anger always lies fear, Even if the angry person appears to be strong and in control fear will always be the reason behind his anger."

"Whenever you find yourself angry just ask yourself one question, what am I afraid of?
If you found yourself shouting at another driver then you might find that you were afraid of the damage that was going to happen to your car."

http://www.psychologyineverydaylife.net/2012/05/29/masks-of-anger-the-fears-that-your-anger-may-be-hiding/

"What Is Anger All About?
There is a strong relationship between anger and fear. Anger is the fight part of the age-old fight-or-flight response to threat."

Once again, you missed my point spectacularly.

I agree, fear is often the reason behind anger. I agree that there is a strong relationship between the two. However, that is not my point.

You said "anger is fear". This is false.

Don't be ridiculous! Read back at what I've said all along. Fear is the root of anger! Geeze, Semantics? Don't waste my time.

There is a huge difference between "anger is fear" and "anger is the root of fear" or "anger is related to fear". The fact that you don't seem to think so is exactly what I mean by "lack of intellectual rigor".

R
 "The root of lust is fear." #233

TNR
"I agree with Jura. Bullshit. And I came to that conclusion based entirely on personal experience. That's what you asked for, isn't it?"

     "Desires and fears. How different they seem. How similar they truly are. How can desire and fear be so totally related? Think of it this way: if you say, "I want to be loved," it's the same thing as saying "I'm afraid I won't be loved."  If you say, "I want to have someone around me," it's the same as saying "I'm afraid of being alone." The truth is that fear and desire are at the root of each other. Rather, than leading us to fulfillment, desires take us away from it. The more desires we have, the greater the fear that those desires will not be fulfilled. And all desires represent one of two things: wanting something we don't have, such as great wealth, or not wanting something we have, such as a pile of overdue bills. We desire good health and vigor; we fear disease. We desire a loving relationship; we fear loneliness. Can you see that if you say, "I want to live," it's the same as saying "I'm afraid I will die,"?"

  "Finding Clarity:  A Guide to the Deeper Levels of Your Being" by Jeru Kabbal adapted by Leonard M. Zunin, M.D. and Robert Strock (North Atlantic Books; 2006),

We already went through fear, desire, anger, lust. Go back and reread it and stop with the nonsense.

R

[Love]

"Stupidity doesn't either, what's your point?"  I made my point.   You're the one who can't seem to make a point.

enjoying the conversation so I thought I would come back to make a few more comments.


"My point is that stupid people can be destructive and malicious just as much as smart people." Not true and obviously not true.   Stupid people can only be petty criminals whereas smart people can be master criminals.   "Being smart doesn't automatically make you anything."  You are right.  So far the only thing you said that is true.   "You're making unsupportable generalizations. "  No I am not.  I haven't said one thing that isn't true and easily observed to be true.  My initial post that you responded to still stands.

R

[Robaroni]

"Stupidity doesn't either, what's your point?"  I made my point.   You're the one who can't seem to make a point.

enjoying the conversation so I thought I would come back to make a few more comments.


"My point is that stupid people can be destructive and malicious just as much as smart people." Not true and obviously not true.   Stupid people can only be petty criminals whereas smart people can be master criminals.   "Being smart doesn't automatically make you anything."  You are right.  So far the only thing you said that is true.   "You're making unsupportable generalizations. "  No I am not.  I haven't said one thing that isn't true and easily observed to be true.  My initial post that you responded to still stands.

R

Can a stupid person kill someone? Yes! of course, is killing someone a "petty crime"? No!! and your original premise fell flat on its face.

[TotesNotReptilian]

R
"Anger is fear, (unfulfilled expectations)."


TNR
 (Yes, there is often a correlation between anger and fear. No, they are NOT the same thing.

http://www.2knowmyself.com/relationship_between_anger_and_fear

"Behind anger always lies fear, Even if the angry person appears to be strong and in control fear will always be the reason behind his anger."

"Whenever you find yourself angry just ask yourself one question, what am I afraid of?
If you found yourself shouting at another driver then you might find that you were afraid of the damage that was going to happen to your car."

http://www.psychologyineverydaylife.net/2012/05/29/masks-of-anger-the-fears-that-your-anger-may-be-hiding/

"What Is Anger All About?
There is a strong relationship between anger and fear. Anger is the fight part of the age-old fight-or-flight response to threat."

Once again, you missed my point spectacularly.

I agree, fear is often the reason behind anger. I agree that there is a strong relationship between the two. However, that is not my point.

You said "anger is fear". This is false.

Don't be ridiculous! Read back at what I've said all along. Fear is the root of anger! Geeze, Semantics? Don't waste my time.

There is a huge difference between "anger is fear" and "anger is the root of fear" or "anger is related to fear". The fact that you don't seem to think so is exactly what I mean by "lack of intellectual rigor".

R
 "The root of lust is fear." #233

TNR
"I agree with Jura. Bullshit. And I came to that conclusion based entirely on personal experience. That's what you asked for, isn't it?"

I thought we were talking about your statement "Anger is fear". Why are you bringing up lust now? That statement is wrong as well... but why bring it up?

We already went through fear, desire, anger, lust. Go back and reread it and stop with the nonsense.

I know you talked about all those other topics. What does this have to do with your "anger is fear" statement?

Edit: Most people gave up responding to the ironically named "Love" a long time ago. Fair warning.

[Love]

""That's not true at all! Evolution is critical in knowing biology, of understanding the world we live in and understanding the world we live in enables us interrelate to it."   ROFL
  Evolution is Bullshit.  The only people it helps are the sophists who get grants to write about it.  Dr. Ben Carson is a world class surgeon and he doesn't need evolution.  One can be an effective physician, engineer, biochemist and not believe in evolution.   Because applied math is the same thing as applied science and a biochemist studying nucleotide chemistry in the laboratory; using scientific method, will come to the same conclusions about their subject whether they believe in evolution or not.   

If you want to call mathematics science then fine.   But it really isn't.  Mathematics is free of any ideological influence.  The same can't be said for science.

By the way, "Dude" is a compliment.  It means a well dressed man who has a way with the ladies.  So thank you for addressing me as such.  Good day!

Learning music requires mathematics because the instructions for how to compose and play are complicated.   Music is not science.   But it needs mathematical analysis in order to expand into deeper levels of complexity.

[Love]

the most important thing is life is to be able to get a good night's sleep.....I got this notion from reading Moby Dick ...... Woe to those who are unable to have an untroubled daily hiatus from consciousness.  Next to that I would say hope is the most important.  Hope will keep one going when everything else has gone away.

there is no shame in being wrong, only in doing wrong

[Robaroni]

""That's not true at all! Evolution is critical in knowing biology, of understanding the world we live in and understanding the world we live in enables us interrelate to it."   ROFL
  Evolution is Bullshit.  The only people it helps are the sophists who get grants to write about it.  Dr. Ben Carson is a world class surgeon and he doesn't need evolution.  One can be an effective physician, engineer, biochemist and not believe in evolution.   Because applied math is the same thing as applied science and a biochemist studying nucleotide chemistry in the laboratory; using scientific method, will come to the same conclusions about their subject whether they believe in evolution or not.   

If you want to call mathematics science then fine.   But it really isn't.  Mathematics is free of any ideological influence.  The same can't be said for science.

By the way, "Dude" is a compliment.  It means a well dressed man who has a way with the ladies.  So thank you for addressing me as such.  Good day!

Learning music requires mathematics because the instructions for how to compose and play are complicated.   Music is not science.   But it needs mathematical analysis in order to expand into deeper levels of complexity.

How many times are you going to keep repeating this? I gave you two definitions of mathematics, what more do you need? I'm calling it science because it is science by definition. You're making up your own definition, that doesn't work here!

I don't care what "dude" signifies, it doesn't promote your premise one bit.

"ROFL" is not a logical defense of your position, it's valueless.

Again, I don't care what Ben Carson thinks. If he has a formidable, rational response than post it with a link.

R