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Offline BlueMoon

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Why should anyone believe the earth is flat?
« on: March 10, 2016, 03:48:47 AM »
There is plenty of evidence that the earth is round.  There is also plenty of evidence that NASA is to be trusted.  So why should anyone discard that evidence in favor of believing that the earth is flat?  What is your best, most incontrovertible evidence that the earth is flat and NASA is lying?  Remember to cite your sources. 
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Offline Woody

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Re: Why should anyone believe the earth is flat?
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2016, 04:03:31 AM »
If NASA was not part of a conspiracy then it would prove the Earth is a spheroid orbited by a moon which both orbit the sun a long with other planets and moons.  So by necessity any thing involving satellites or space travel has to be fake.

The evidence provided by science is flawed because they are assuming the Earth is a spheroid and/or scientist are part of the conspiracy.  For the Earth to be flat I lean towards a lot scientist involved in the Earth sciences would have to be part of the conspiracy.  Many calculations, observations, experiments, etc are done assuming the Earth is ball like.  That implies the error would resonate through many fields of study and become apparent.  So IMHO it is safe to assume many scientist would be involved covering up the shape of the Earth.

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Offline BlueMoon

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Re: Why should anyone believe the earth is flat?
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2016, 04:11:58 AM »
If NASA was not part of a conspiracy then it would prove the Earth is a spheroid orbited by a moon which both orbit the sun a long with other planets and moons.  So by necessity any thing involving satellites or space travel has to be fake.

The evidence provided by science is flawed because they are assuming the Earth is a spheroid and/or scientist are part of the conspiracy.  For the Earth to be flat I lean towards a lot scientist involved in the Earth sciences would have to be part of the conspiracy.  Many calculations, observations, experiments, etc are done assuming the Earth is ball like.  That implies the error would resonate through many fields of study and become apparent.  So IMHO it is safe to assume many scientist would be involved covering up the shape of the Earth.
That statement is based entirely on the assumption that the earth is flat, and doesn't include any evidence or sources at all.  Like I said, we have plenty of evidence that the earth is round.  Do you have any reason to think that the earth is flat? 

Also, why is your profile pic a Kerbal?  If anything, Kerbal Space Program proves that rockets and orbits work the way NASA says they do. 
« Last Edit: March 10, 2016, 04:14:25 AM by BlueMoon »
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Re: Why should anyone believe the earth is flat?
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2016, 04:16:12 AM »
Ifyou have been on this website for any length of time you would have learned that there is a long list of the Round Earth Conspiracy. Everybody from NASA, scientists to ham radio operators.

The only honest and truthful persons on the world are the few members of the Flat Earth Society who are the only holders of the truth on the earth . Every one else is a liar and everything else is fake. If you dont believe this is true, just ask any Flat Earth True Believer.

But don't pin them down by asking for facts and evidence. And most of all don't ask them to cite their sources.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2016, 04:22:04 AM by geckothegeek »

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: Why should anyone believe the earth is flat?
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2016, 04:19:40 AM »
There is plenty of evidence that the earth is round.  There is also plenty of evidence that NASA is to be trusted.  So why should anyone discard that evidence in favor of believing that the earth is flat?  What is your best, most incontrovertible evidence that the earth is flat and NASA is lying?  Remember to cite your sources.
The earth looks flat, therefore it is flat!   My sources are my own eyes.[1] 
NASA provides incontrovertible evidence that the earth is not flat, ipso facto NASA must be lying.
Why is it that the first responders are oftenGlobe supporters taking the mickey out of FE ideas?

[1]  From what I can see "The earth looks flat" seems to be the only undeniable evidence, everything else gets distorted (literally in the case of perspective, etc).

geckothegeek

Re: Why should anyone believe the earth is flat?
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2016, 04:25:07 AM »
There is plenty of evidence that the earth is round.  There is also plenty of evidence that NASA is to be trusted.  So why should anyone discard that evidence in favor of believing that the earth is flat?  What is your best, most incontrovertible evidence that the earth is flat and NASA is lying?  Remember to cite your sources.
The earth looks flat, therefore it is flat!   My sources are my own eyes.[1] 
NASA provides incontrovertible evidence that the earth is not flat, ipso facto NASA must be lying.
Why is it that the first responders are oftenGlobe supporters taking the mickey out of FE ideas?

[1]  From what I can see "The earth looks flat" seems to be the only undeniable evidence, everything else gets distorted (literally in the case of perspective, etc).

The size and shape of Australia is one example of how everything gets distorted on the flat earth map.

If you were to ask a grain of sand  on a beach ball if the ball was round or flat he would probably tell you that the beach ball was flat.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2016, 04:32:13 AM by geckothegeek »

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Offline BlueMoon

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Re: Why should anyone believe the earth is flat?
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2016, 04:30:36 AM »
Ifyou have been on this website for any length of time you would have learned that there is a long list of the Round Earth Conspiracy. Everybody from NASA, scientists to ham radio operators.

The only honest and truthful persons on the world are the few members of the Flat Earth Society who are the only holders of the truth on the earth . Every one else is a liar and everything else is fake. If you dont believe this is true, just ask any Flat Earth True Believer.

But don't pin them down by asking for facts and evidence. And most of all don't ask them to cite their sources.
I can't be certain, but I think I might be picking up on sarcasm here.  You never can tell on sites like these. 
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geckothegeek

Re: Why should anyone believe the earth is flat?
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2016, 04:34:38 AM »
Ifyou have been on this website for any length of time you would have learned that there is a long list of the Round Earth Conspiracy. Everybody from NASA, scientists to ham radio operators.

The only honest and truthful persons on the world are the few members of the Flat Earth Society who are the only holders of the truth on the earth . Every one else is a liar and everything else is fake. If you dont believe this is true, just ask any Flat Earth True Believer.

But don't pin them down by asking for facts and evidence. And most of all don't ask them to cite their sources.
I can't be certain, but I think I might be picking up on sarcasm here.  You never can tell on sites like these.

My apologies . I have sunk to the levels of a lot of others on this website. I think I had better go back to just citing evidence.

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Offline BlueMoon

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Re: Why should anyone believe the earth is flat?
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2016, 04:42:50 AM »
Ifyou have been on this website for any length of time you would have learned that there is a long list of the Round Earth Conspiracy. Everybody from NASA, scientists to ham radio operators.

The only honest and truthful persons on the world are the few members of the Flat Earth Society who are the only holders of the truth on the earth . Every one else is a liar and everything else is fake. If you dont believe this is true, just ask any Flat Earth True Believer.

But don't pin them down by asking for facts and evidence. And most of all don't ask them to cite their sources.
I can't be certain, but I think I might be picking up on sarcasm here.  You never can tell on sites like these.

My apologies . I have sunk to the levels of a lot of others on this website. I think I had better go back to just citing evidence.
I wish we had an easier way to see who believes what, like a marker next to their name or something.  I tried to remove that ambiguity with my sig.  I'm still not entirely sure which side you're on, though. 

EDIT: Just checked your profile; we're on the same side. 
« Last Edit: March 10, 2016, 04:46:40 AM by BlueMoon »
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Offline Woody

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Re: Why should anyone believe the earth is flat?
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2016, 05:13:51 AM »
If NASA was not part of a conspiracy then it would prove the Earth is a spheroid orbited by a moon which both orbit the sun a long with other planets and moons.  So by necessity any thing involving satellites or space travel has to be fake.

The evidence provided by science is flawed because they are assuming the Earth is a spheroid and/or scientist are part of the conspiracy.  For the Earth to be flat I lean towards a lot scientist involved in the Earth sciences would have to be part of the conspiracy.  Many calculations, observations, experiments, etc are done assuming the Earth is ball like.  That implies the error would resonate through many fields of study and become apparent.  So IMHO it is safe to assume many scientist would be involved covering up the shape of the Earth.
That statement is based entirely on the assumption that the earth is flat, and doesn't include any evidence or sources at all.  Like I said, we have plenty of evidence that the earth is round.  Do you have any reason to think that the earth is flat? 

Also, why is your profile pic a Kerbal?  If anything, Kerbal Space Program proves that rockets and orbits work the way NASA says they do.
Everyone who has replied to you so far to the best of my knowledge believes the Earth is a spheroid, orbited by a moon which both orbit the sun. 

I gave you answers that I have received with some of my counter arguments mixed in the response.

A thread like this will likely not be responded to by a FE supporter judging from my experience so far on this site.

Big topics tend to be NASA related stuff, Antarctica, gravity, not seeing the curve, how far away you should be able to see something, sun rising and setting, lunar phases and eclipses. distances between places, flat earth map.

I missed a couple, but usually anything that requires definitive proof will be ignored.  The list I gave you will be explained by conspiracy, universal acceleration or air pressure, dispute of the proper formulas to use, perspective, moon producing its own light or spot light sun still shinning on it, conspiracy to hide true distances, they admit the map is a work in progress.  I omitted some of the answers I have gotten, but that is the gist.

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: Why should anyone believe the earth is flat?
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2016, 12:45:53 PM »
Ifyou have been on this website for any length of time you would have learned that there is a long list of the Round Earth Conspiracy. Everybody from NASA, scientists to ham radio operators.

The only honest and truthful persons on the world are the few members of the Flat Earth Society who are the only holders of the truth on the earth . Every one else is a liar and everything else is fake. If you dont believe this is true, just ask any Flat Earth True Believer.

But don't pin them down by asking for facts and evidence. And most of all don't ask them to cite their sources.
I can't be certain, but I think I might be picking up on sarcasm here.  You never can tell on sites like these.

Yes, quite a lot of sarcasm! The trouble we find is that we put up what seems like sound evidence and it just gets ignored. I am almost embarrassed at the number of threads ending with "Last poster RABinOZ"! Maybe I just bore them to tears - ask jroa!
I guess my trouble is that I know the size (and shape) of Australia - I've driven over a goodly part of it and know what a "few roos short in the top paddock" means, so I riducule all the maps of their Pepperoni Pizza Planet - PPP!

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Offline Jura-Glenlivet

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Re: Why should anyone believe the earth is flat?
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2016, 02:04:26 PM »

In defence of the FE’ers, there must be an amount of post fatigue setting in, in the time I have been coming here there have been waves and waves of RE’ers arriving like new arrivals to Pandora, standing around for a while going “WTF”, and then piling in.
The old guard tend to (apart from a bit of moderating) stay out of this hoping the young bloods can handle it, if they don’t they are discarded and won’t make the inner sanctums. Of which I suspect there are two, one of people who set this up for a bit of a laugh and can’t believe how the zeitgeist of paranoia married to declining standards of education has swept them up, and the true believer who sees a resurgence of free thinking.

There is a broad selection of mainly decent people here posting on a variety of topics many unrelated to the shape of the Earth, enjoy and remember you could have been like this if you hadn’t paid attention in science class.
Just to be clear, you are all terrific, but everything you say is exactly what a moron would say.

Re: Why should anyone believe the earth is flat?
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2016, 04:20:31 PM »
Ah the smug nature of the rounders comments... Can you feel it?

You guys talk a big game but yet still NONE of you have your own evidence the earth is round.

All any Ball Earth believers do is post links from "science" websites and use that as their evidence.

That is another man's work, not yours.

If round earth is so easy to prove, then  why don't any of you have your own evidence?

The fact that and the way that rounders even attempt to defend round earth tells me a lot about this so called science you all spew.

Most rounders have never even left their own country, state, home town, yet you all are so certain of the shape of the earth.

Rounders go through their entire life believing all they read about science. Never once having an original thought, experiment, or ground breaking discovery.

Space is nothing more than a mathematical theory, never proven, never explored, never conquered by man, ever.

The science you know is nothing more than complicated math to complete a puzzle of illusion for the weak to snack on.

Jokes on you. Go back to your History Channel and Discovery Channel for your daily brainwashing. Then, please, come back and "educate" the less fortunate and under studied some more...

Re: Why should anyone believe the earth is flat?
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2016, 06:57:54 PM »
There is plenty of evidence that the earth is round.  There is also plenty of evidence that NASA is to be trusted.  So why should anyone discard that evidence in favor of believing that the earth is flat?  What is your best, most incontrovertible evidence that the earth is flat and NASA is lying?  Remember to cite your sources.

Hi, friend.
I think of it in this way. A computer programmed to do a certain function would perform it with whatever data we feed in. Even if the data is wrong, the machine would process and give a logical answer (according to what we fed in). What if we were wrong in our assumptions? We were taught from childhood that earth is round. Don't you think we have already accepted that without questioning?
Could you please mention a few evidences you speak of? Which doesn't have any assumptions behind them and would appease a straight forward logic? The FES apparently doesn't approve of photographic evidence (Thanks to photoshop and similar software). I'm not yet convinced of both theories, to be honest.
:)

Re: Why should anyone believe the earth is flat?
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2016, 07:02:23 PM »
There is plenty of evidence that the earth is round.  There is also plenty of evidence that NASA is to be trusted.  So why should anyone discard that evidence in favor of believing that the earth is flat?  What is your best, most incontrovertible evidence that the earth is flat and NASA is lying?  Remember to cite your sources.

Hi, friend.
I think of it in this way. A computer programmed to do a certain function would perform it with whatever data we feed in. Even if the data is wrong, the machine would process and give a logical answer (according to what we fed in). What if we were wrong in our assumptions? We were taught from childhood that earth is round. Don't you think we have already accepted that without questioning?
Could you please mention a few evidences you speak of? Which doesn't have any assumptions behind them and would appease a straight forward logic? The FES apparently doesn't approve of photographic evidence (Thanks to photoshop and similar software). I'm not yet convinced of both theories, to be honest.

I like your analogy about the computer processing. Also, thanks for your willingness to explore alternative theories and not be so illogical to completely close your mind to any other possibilities besides what we've been told our whole lives.

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Offline BlueMoon

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Re: Why should anyone believe the earth is flat?
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2016, 07:20:14 PM »
You guys talk a big game but yet still NONE of you have your own evidence the earth is round.

All any Ball Earth believers do is post links from "science" websites and use that as their evidence.

That is another man's work, not yours.

If round earth is so easy to prove, then  why don't any of you have your own evidence?


Actually I do have my own evidence.  I just quickly grabbed some links because it seemed like bad form to ask you to include sources without having any myself. 


I am a member of the Space Hardware Club at my university.  We send up high altitude balloons that can see the curvature of the earth.  We participate in the ARISS program, where we can get live communication with the ISS.  And we have our own cubesat in space that we were able to track for several orbits.  All that evidence is third party and unable to be faked.  I could go on, but I feel like you're not listening.  The point is that I am more qualified to speak for NASA and the round earth than you are to speak against them. 


The fact that and the way that rounders even attempt to defend round earth tells me a lot about this so called science you all spew.


I defend the round earth because I cannot in good conscience let FEers like you continue to attack hardworking, intelligent professionals like those at NASA.  They have done nothing wrong, and continue to bring good to our society, yet you continue to harass and shame theme because you can't accept your own incompetence. 


The science you know is nothing more than complicated math to complete a puzzle of illusion for the weak to snack on.


The science is sound.  It is your "science," with its half-assed explanations like "celestial gravitation" and "aether," that is worthless and hollow. 


Everything you said about REers really only applies to you.  So if you're not ready to experience the truth, go slither back to your precious Wiki, and don't come back until you can bring more to the conversation than vague, stupid insults. 
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Offline Pongo

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Re: Why should anyone believe the earth is flat?
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2016, 07:40:44 PM »
We send up high altitude balloons that can see the curvature of the earth.

You mean that you see the terminator line of the spotlight sun.

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Offline BlueMoon

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Re: Why should anyone believe the earth is flat?
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2016, 07:41:00 PM »
There is plenty of evidence that the earth is round.  There is also plenty of evidence that NASA is to be trusted.  So why should anyone discard that evidence in favor of believing that the earth is flat?  What is your best, most incontrovertible evidence that the earth is flat and NASA is lying?  Remember to cite your sources.

Hi, friend.
I think of it in this way. A computer programmed to do a certain function would perform it with whatever data we feed in. Even if the data is wrong, the machine would process and give a logical answer (according to what we fed in). What if we were wrong in our assumptions? We were taught from childhood that earth is round. Don't you think we have already accepted that without questioning?
Could you please mention a few evidences you speak of? Which doesn't have any assumptions behind them and would appease a straight forward logic? The FES apparently doesn't approve of photographic evidence (Thanks to photoshop and similar software). I'm not yet convinced of both theories, to be honest.
Hello Rain.  Thank you for remaining open. 
Here are some things that, as best as I can tell, are explained well by a round earth, but not well or not at all by a flat earth, as best as I can tell. 
  • Satellite orbits
  • 2 high and low tides each day, and the locations of those tides
  • Moon phases
  • Eclipses
  • Planetary motion
  • Stellar parallax and proper motion
  • Coriolis effect
NOTE:  This is just a quick list.  I'm sorry I haven't addressed most of your post yet, but I will once I get back from class in a few hours.  When I get back I'll go into detail about the RE explanations and why they're better, and I'll also grab some more specific evidence.  In the mean time, I'm wondering if another FEer would put down what their explanations are for the things on this list.   
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Offline BlueMoon

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Re: Why should anyone believe the earth is flat?
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2016, 07:42:13 PM »
We send up high altitude balloons that can see the curvature of the earth.

You mean that you see the terminator line of the spotlight sun.
No, that's clearly different. 
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Re: Why should anyone believe the earth is flat?
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2016, 07:47:26 PM »
We send up high altitude balloons that can see the curvature of the earth.

You mean that you see the terminator line of the spotlight sun.
No, that's clearly different.

Care to elaborate?