Offline UnionsOfSolarSystemPlanet

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Re: You wouldn't know how fast you're going
« Reply #80 on: March 19, 2016, 03:13:00 PM »
This happens when theyre seemingly standing still, not just demos of them moving around the station.
Because they aren't standing still, you probably mention how they slowly rotates.
Do a test yourself, jump while turning your body quickly, can you stop the rotation while on air?
When your feet touches the ground, it will absorb your momentum, but in the ISS, they need to hold on something connected to the station to do that.
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Offline BlueMoon

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Re: You wouldn't know how fast you're going
« Reply #81 on: March 19, 2016, 03:19:25 PM »
Why in videos of the astronauts inside the ISS are they constantly moving around, catching themselves and grabbing stabilization bars? If they aren't experiencing any acceleration then why would that happen?
When in the microgravity of the space station, any motion that they make causes them to move or rotate.  There is no ground for them to plant their feet on.  They also have air currents to contend with. 
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Re: You wouldn't know how fast you're going
« Reply #82 on: March 19, 2016, 03:27:19 PM »
Also, how would you ever be completely still on ISS? Turning your head of moving your arm will cause you to move. Even the blood being pumped around your body will cause you to move eventually
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Offline nametaken

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Re: You wouldn't know how fast you're going
« Reply #83 on: March 19, 2016, 05:07:37 PM »
I don't understand; why should anything happen to your organs?

You cleared this up for me; but here's where I was coming from, and what I thought would happen prior: Same thing when you slam on the brakes in a vehicle, or deploy a parachute I suppose, just on a bigger scale of being suddenly detached from the earth's movement. End: It was relational I see now; there's nothing to move in relation to in space really (until inevitably of course, there is, such as debris or larger), so no violent transition.

However, if you're in a car there are a lot of inferences you can make about the car's movement in relation to the known Globe Earth momentum; even with a majority of the senses relatively impaired (close your eyes, put in earplugs, etc). This is because your body (and specifically) organs (again) can detect changes in movement. Try taking a cab when you are looking for a latrine, for example; experiencing turbulence on an aircraft or vertigo at night sky may apply to some extent as well. However, this may/may not apply to constant movement which is all said organs have ever known since before they were even developed (save for in my 'tangent' about leaving it); such as the movement of the Globe Earth. I honestly don't think it can even be used to prove/disprove the theory of this topic (except again, by observations/measurements leaving it). Hope that helps; actually would be an interesting (if expensive) experiment to run in addition to any other task in a manned mission, actually; probably not worth going to space alone just to find out though.

Or, is space itself just conveniently moving at the same speed of the Earth, so the 'astronauts' whom have 'already done this' managed to survive, as you were, by 'hitting the ground running'?

No, it isn't that 'space is moving', but instead that space is empty (OK, it's mostly empty).  When an astronaut leaves the vehicle in space, it isn't like jumping from a moving bus onto stationary earth or into air moving at a different speed (if moving at all).  He's going from a vehicle moving through vacuum, to moving through that vacuum without a vehicle.

Okay, I see how these globe-earth-to-space-transition physics work better now, thank you, this is the counterpoint I couldn't visualize (thus my point of my last post). I by no means was implying that vacuum had momentum, though; that was just to illustrate what I couldn't visualize.

Regardless, if the world is spinning and hurtling through space, there should be some sort of 'transition' when exiting the 'vehicle' as you must realize your analogy inevitably must conclude; Yes - you wouldn't know how fast you were going - until [you stopped].

You've missed the original poster's point, which is: ON EARTH you cannot detect the velocity of the spot you are standing on, because you detect acceleration, not speed [...] All this subsequent talk of orbiting and leaving spacecraft is all tangential.

My previous quoted response. I didn't miss anything other than transition physics; Edit de/acceleration opposed to speed, and over-interpreted organ impact. End Edit Oh yes, it was [somewhat of] a tangent, maybe in bad taste, I concur, but would have been worse to make a new thread for it entirely than to merely bring it up here (to be sure, just to be thwarted with a single post such as this - thank you for responding btw).

« Last Edit: Today at 05:14:16 PM by nametaken »
« Last Edit: March 19, 2016, 05:14:46 PM by nametaken »
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Re: You wouldn't know how fast you're going
« Reply #84 on: April 07, 2016, 10:55:39 AM »
According to flat earth theory I am travelling faster than the speed of light.

(Flat Earth wiki)
Why doesn't gravity pull the earth into a spherical shape?
The earth isn't pulled into a sphere because the force known as gravity doesn't exist or at least exists in a greatly diminished form than is commonly taught. The earth is constantly accelerating up at a rate of 32 feet per second squared (or 9.8 meters per second squared). This constant acceleration causes what you think of as gravity.
(Flat Earth wiki)

After a single year the Earth would have been moving faster than the speed of light.

Breaking the laws of physics aside, my question is :) why don't you feel the effects of moving so fast?

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Offline junker

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Re: You wouldn't know how fast you're going
« Reply #85 on: April 07, 2016, 04:54:26 PM »
According to flat earth theory I am travelling faster than the speed of light.

(Flat Earth wiki)
Why doesn't gravity pull the earth into a spherical shape?
The earth isn't pulled into a sphere because the force known as gravity doesn't exist or at least exists in a greatly diminished form than is commonly taught. The earth is constantly accelerating up at a rate of 32 feet per second squared (or 9.8 meters per second squared). This constant acceleration causes what you think of as gravity.
(Flat Earth wiki)

After a single year the Earth would have been moving faster than the speed of light.

Breaking the laws of physics aside, my question is :) why don't you feel the effects of moving so fast?

No, the Earth wouldn't be moving faster than the speed of light. Not after a year, not ever.

You do feel the effects. Try jumping or stepping off a chair.
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Re: You wouldn't know how fast you're going
« Reply #86 on: April 07, 2016, 05:24:33 PM »
So you disagree with the Flat Earth wiki?
That seemed pretty clear that the Earth was constantly accelerating, which is the reason why I will hit the floor after stepping off a chair.

However, if the Earth was constantly accelerating like this after just a year it would be moving faster than the speed of light. My question is why don't I feel like I'm moving a few thousand times the speed of light when I'm simply sitting in the chair?

Re: You wouldn't know how fast you're going
« Reply #87 on: April 07, 2016, 05:25:43 PM »
So you disagree with the Flat Earth wiki?
That seemed pretty clear that the Earth was constantly accelerating, which is the reason why I will hit the floor after stepping off a chair.

However, if the Earth was constantly accelerating like this after just a year it would be moving faster than the speed of light. My question is why don't I feel like I'm moving a few thousand times the speed of light when I'm simply sitting in the chair?

Because you wouldn't know how fast you're going ;) lol

Re: You wouldn't know how fast you're going
« Reply #88 on: April 07, 2016, 05:53:36 PM »
Do you think you're travelling over 5000 times the speed of light? (Over 1.5 Billion km a second)

I feel like I'd know if I was moving that fast.

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Offline junker

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You wouldn't know how fast you're going
« Reply #89 on: April 07, 2016, 07:25:39 PM »
So you disagree with the Flat Earth wiki?
That seemed pretty clear that the Earth was constantly accelerating, which is the reason why I will hit the floor after stepping off a chair.

However, if the Earth was constantly accelerating like this after just a year it would be moving faster than the speed of light. My question is why don't I feel like I'm moving a few thousand times the speed of light when I'm simply sitting in the chair?

No, I don't disagree with the wiki. You aren't moving faster than the speed of light. You can accelerate forever at a constant rate and never reach c. You will asymptotically approach c, but never reach it. I would suggest taking a look at special relativity for more detail. Even the wiki explains why you won't reach c.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2016, 07:27:42 PM by junker »
Wait, is Thork gay or does he just have a thing for lipstick?

Re: You wouldn't know how fast you're going
« Reply #90 on: April 07, 2016, 07:42:40 PM »
I had only read the part on gravity that I quoted, I never even imagined that Flat Earthers would believe in special relativity and that E=Mc2.

So you're saying you believe the explanation that our mass is nearing infinity?

(Our mass would have to be nearing infinity if we were travelling at the speed that we were experiencing length contraction.)

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Offline Roundy

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Re: You wouldn't know how fast you're going
« Reply #91 on: April 10, 2016, 12:47:16 AM »
I had only read the part on gravity that I quoted, I never even imagined that Flat Earthers would believe in special relativity and that E=Mc2.

So you're saying you believe the explanation that our mass is nearing infinity?

That's just silly.  It is a ridiculous impossibility for our mass to be "nearing infinity".
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Offline Unsure101

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Re: You wouldn't know how fast you're going
« Reply #92 on: April 10, 2016, 05:04:23 AM »
I had only read the part on gravity that I quoted, I never even imagined that Flat Earthers would believe in special relativity and that E=Mc2.

So you're saying you believe the explanation that our mass is nearing infinity?

That's just silly.  It is a ridiculous impossibility for our mass to be "nearing infinity".
Then how do you explain that we've been accelerating for so long, but our velocity is less that the speed of light?

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Offline Roundy

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Re: You wouldn't know how fast you're going
« Reply #93 on: April 10, 2016, 06:00:37 AM »
I had only read the part on gravity that I quoted, I never even imagined that Flat Earthers would believe in special relativity and that E=Mc2.

So you're saying you believe the explanation that our mass is nearing infinity?

That's just silly.  It is a ridiculous impossibility for our mass to be "nearing infinity".
Then how do you explain that we've been accelerating for so long, but our velocity is less that the speed of light?

Because you can constantly accelerate without reaching the speed of light.  It is impossible to reach the speed of light.  I thought you had already grasped this.
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Re: You wouldn't know how fast you're going
« Reply #94 on: April 10, 2016, 06:34:38 AM »
I had only read the part on gravity that I quoted, I never even imagined that Flat Earthers would believe in special relativity and that E=Mc2.

So you're saying you believe the explanation that our mass is nearing infinity?

That's just silly.  It is a ridiculous impossibility for our mass to be "nearing infinity".
Then how do you explain that we've been accelerating for so long, but our velocity is less that the speed of light?

Because you can constantly accelerate without reaching the speed of light.  It is impossible to reach the speed of light.  I thought you had already grasped this.

The part you haven't grasped is that if we were moving so fast to experience length contraction (and therefore never reach the speed of light) our mass would have increased close to infinity. That's all part of special relativity.

I'm glad you think the flat earth wiki is silly and ridiculous, I feel the same.

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Offline Roundy

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Re: You wouldn't know how fast you're going
« Reply #95 on: April 10, 2016, 06:40:17 AM »
I had only read the part on gravity that I quoted, I never even imagined that Flat Earthers would believe in special relativity and that E=Mc2.

So you're saying you believe the explanation that our mass is nearing infinity?

That's just silly.  It is a ridiculous impossibility for our mass to be "nearing infinity".
Then how do you explain that we've been accelerating for so long, but our velocity is less that the speed of light?

Because you can constantly accelerate without reaching the speed of light.  It is impossible to reach the speed of light.  I thought you had already grasped this.

The part you haven't grasped is that if we were moving so fast to experience length contraction (and therefore never reach the speed of light) our mass would have increased close to infinity. That's all part of special relativity.


Why do you keep using the phrase "close to infinity" as if it has any meaning at all?  At what point exactly does one reach "close to infinity"?
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Re: You wouldn't know how fast you're going
« Reply #96 on: April 10, 2016, 06:54:36 AM »
I had only read the part on gravity that I quoted, I never even imagined that Flat Earthers would believe in special relativity and that E=Mc2.

So you're saying you believe the explanation that our mass is nearing infinity?

That's just silly.  It is a ridiculous impossibility for our mass to be "nearing infinity".
Then how do you explain that we've been accelerating for so long, but our velocity is less that the speed of light?

Because you can constantly accelerate without reaching the speed of light.  It is impossible to reach the speed of light.  I thought you had already grasped this.

The part you haven't grasped is that if we were moving so fast to experience length contraction (and therefore never reach the speed of light) our mass would have increased close to infinity. That's all part of special relativity.


Why do you keep using the phrase "close to infinity" as if it has any meaning at all?  At what point exactly does one reach "close to infinity"?

Again this is part of special relativity, the thing you're using to explain what is happening.
Briefly:
In order to reach the speed of light your mass would be infinite.
In order to experience length contraction (the reason you give for not reaching the speed of light) you have to be travelling at 99.9999999% of the speed of light.
Therefore your mass is getting close to infinite.

If it's just the concept of infinity you don't like, I can explain things in a simpler way for you.
You're trying to argue that there is more mass in the palm of your hand than there is in a black hole.

Sounds crazy, I know.

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Offline BlueMoon

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Re: You wouldn't know how fast you're going
« Reply #97 on: April 10, 2016, 08:07:58 AM »
I had only read the part on gravity that I quoted, I never even imagined that Flat Earthers would believe in special relativity and that E=Mc2.

So you're saying you believe the explanation that our mass is nearing infinity?

That's just silly.  It is a ridiculous impossibility for our mass to be "nearing infinity".
Then how do you explain that we've been accelerating for so long, but our velocity is less that the speed of light?

Because you can constantly accelerate without reaching the speed of light.  It is impossible to reach the speed of light.  I thought you had already grasped this.

The part you haven't grasped is that if we were moving so fast to experience length contraction (and therefore never reach the speed of light) our mass would have increased close to infinity. That's all part of special relativity.


Why do you keep using the phrase "close to infinity" as if it has any meaning at all?  At what point exactly does one reach "close to infinity"?
You're right about accelerating without reaching the speed of light.  In that one regard, and from my limited knowledge of relativity, it checks out. 
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Offline Round fact

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Re: You wouldn't know how fast you're going
« Reply #98 on: April 10, 2016, 11:16:15 AM »
In general the standard pressure lapse rate is about an inch of Hg per thousand feet of altitude gained. And for temperature, about 4.5 degrees F.

This assumes a sea level pressure of 29.92 and Temp of 59 degrees which being a world wide average, means your location will more often that not be different than the Standard.

Our airport here in Columbus, Indiana is 658 feet above sea level. So our temperature should be about 57 degrees and the pressure 29.26. But weather gets involved. I have seen in the winter sub-zero temps and low pressure fronts combine to give our airport pressure and density altitudes of 4,000 feet BELOW Sea Level.  On those days a little Cessna 150 will jump off the runway like it sat on ten hornet's nests. I have seen the reverse on a hot clear summer's day where the aircraft lumbers down the runway as though it will never take off.

Read articles about the Leadville  CO airport. Very enlightening about temperature and pressure.

Though the excepted beginning of Space is 62 miles altitude its influence extends well above that as the atmosphere has no defined edge, and in truth exerts a small amount of drag on the ISS and other low Earth orbit sats. This is the reason Sky Lab and the Russian Station finally fell out of orbit and burned up (mostly) as it entered the atmosphere.

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Offline Roundy

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Re: You wouldn't know how fast you're going
« Reply #99 on: April 10, 2016, 04:43:57 PM »
Quote
Why do you keep using the phrase "close to infinity" as if it has any meaning at all?  At what point exactly does one reach "close to infinity"?

Again this is part of special relativity, the thing you're using to explain what is happening.
Briefly:
In order to reach the speed of light your mass would be infinite.
In order to experience length contraction (the reason you give for not reaching the speed of light) you have to be travelling at 99.9999999% of the speed of light.
Therefore your mass is getting close to infinite.

If it's just the concept of infinity you don't like, I can explain things in a simpler way for you.
You're trying to argue that there is more mass in the palm of your hand than there is in a black hole.

Sounds crazy, I know.

I understand the concept of infinity well enough to know that it is impossible to ever reach it, therefore it is impossible to ever get close to it.  Sounds crazy, I know  ::), but if you really put some thought into that you might grasp it.  It is an extremely simple concept.
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