[Rama Set]

Furthermore, the plot of Star Trek was very understandable.

[Saddam Hussein]

While I too have blamed Abrams before for some of the shit that happened in Lost, he actually had a pretty limited role in that show.  The person who really deserves the blame is his frequent collaborator, Damon Lindelof, who was the showrunner.  Lindelof doesn't exactly have a great track record when it comes to sci-fi.  He produced (but didn't write) the first nu-Trek, and he wrote (in part) the second nu-Trek, Cowboys and Aliens, Prometheus, World War Z, and most recently, Tomorrowland, providing the wonderful director Brad Bird with his first critical flop.  These are all movies in which pretty much everyone agreed that the biggest weakness was the writing.  Still, Lost did have a lot of good things going for it, and more recently, Lindelof has been the showrunner of the critically-acclaimed, rooster-approved The Leftovers, so maybe his talent is just better suited for television?  I'll grant that he at least tries, which is more than I can fucking say for the other two frequent collaborators of Abrams, the shit-shoveling hacks-for-hire Alex Kurtzman and Roberto Orci.  Fuck those two, seriously.  Their filmography reads like a fucking criminal indictment.  The Island.  The Legend of Zorro.  The Transformers series.  The Amazing Spider-Man 2.  And, you guessed it, both nu-Trek movies.  Orci in particular is an unpleasant shithead who's taken to the Internet before to insult people criticizing those films, and it's been convincingly argued that his nutty conspiratard beliefs may have played a role in how confusing and nonsensical Into Darkness's plot was.  He was briefly tapped to direct the third nu-Trek, too.  Just saying, sometimes people blame Abrams for things that are really the fault of his lousy writers.

Anyway, Abrams didn't write either of the nu-Treks, but he did have a hand in writing TFA, so I'd say he's a reasonable choice of person to blame for the oversight.  I certainly don't think that they were mandated by Disney to keep the FO vague.  What would be the point of that?

[rooster]

Anyway, Abrams didn't write either of the nu-Treks, but he did have a hand in writing TFA, so I'd say he's a reasonable choice of person to blame for the oversight.  I certainly don't think that they were mandated by Disney to keep the FO vague.  What would be the point of that?

For the cash cow, m8. All the comics, books, spin offs, etc. They probably wanted this movie to focus more on the main characters and leave open questions about the rest of the galaxy for tie-ins.

[Pongo]

I liked the movie.  Here are my thoughts on this thread.

Nobody can speak Wookie -- it's a running joke in the Star Wars universe. But Rey being able to speak Wookie surprises neither her, Han Solo, nor Chewbacca himself.

Didn't Lando, C-3PO, and Yoda all speak wookie?

And Kylo Ren must be the worst Dark Side villain with a light saber. He should've decapitated Finn in a few seconds. He's a fucking janitor turned Stormtrooper.

Why does everyone think that combat training is outside the wheelhouse of a Stormtrooper?  Not to mention, Ren was wounded.  Possibly severely.

Luke never used his saber once on Dagobah.

That's patently wrong.

She also had zero force training yet mind controlled a storm trooper within minutes of even learning she could. 

She got stronger after each encounter with Ren.  I think she was on the learn-as-you-go plan.  Very Solo.

Not that Finn wasn't great, but I liked that it ended up being Rey who's presumably going on to become a Jedi and discover her destiny and all that.  She felt like a much better fit.

No qualms with anything Saddam has to say.  Just want to point out that it's not ruled out that Finn isn't force sensitive.  "An awakening" doesn't necessarily imply a singular person.  In theory there could have been "an awakening" across the galaxy.  Now, I don't think Finn will be force sensitive, but we never know.

He didn't just save his kid, he threw his old master to his death and sacrificed his own life to do so.  Anyway, this redemption is not like Christianity where you have a ledger of sins that must be atoned for, it is something that happens in the heart.

Nah, that shit doesn't cut it for me. He killed sooooo many innocent people. Fuck you, Vader!

I don't think that turning over to the light side means that Vader now gets to go to Jedi Heaven or that it absolves him of his past evils.  I've always taken it to mean that he is now drawing his powers from the light side.  Simple as that.  If he were to stand trial, he would still be guilty, it's just that he's no longer evil (at the moment).

[Saddam Hussein]

Yeah, there was this scene on Dagobah:



Of course, this provides probably the strongest evidence of all of how much the prequels fucked up by overemphasizing flashy combat and lightsaber acrobatics as being the main role of a Jedi.  You know you've gone way off-base when lines like "Your weapons...you will not need them," have been replaced with stupid shit like this:

[rooster]

I don't think that turning over to the light side means that Vader now gets to go to Jedi Heaven or that it absolves him of his past evils.  I've always taken it to mean that he is now drawing his powers from the light side.  Simple as that.  If he were to stand trial, he would still be guilty, it's just that he's no longer evil (at the moment).

Dude, seriously. I was not talking about in movie shit. I was talking about how fans of the Star Wars series like Vader when he's an evil motherfucker.

Anyone who says they're a fan of the "dark side" is just a try-hard ass. They are modeled after Nazis and fucking murder millions of innocent people. If you seriously are a fan of that then you're crazy.

[Pongo]

I don't think that turning over to the light side means that Vader now gets to go to Jedi Heaven or that it absolves him of his past evils.  I've always taken it to mean that he is now drawing his powers from the light side.  Simple as that.  If he were to stand trial, he would still be guilty, it's just that he's no longer evil (at the moment).

Dude, seriously. I was not talking about in movie shit. I was talking about how fans of the Star Wars series like Vader when he's an evil motherfucker.

Anyone who says they're a fan of the "dark side" is just a try-hard ass. They are modeled after Nazis and fucking murder millions of innocent people. If you seriously are a fan of that then you're crazy.

Well, Dude, seriously, when you inexplicably and ambiguously switch context with your replies people don't realize that and assume that you're talking about the topic at hand.


PS: Please don't take that comment out of context, I was actually talking to someone else, about something else, that has nothing to do with you, Rooster, switching topics mid thread.

[rooster]

I don't think that turning over to the light side means that Vader now gets to go to Jedi Heaven or that it absolves him of his past evils.  I've always taken it to mean that he is now drawing his powers from the light side.  Simple as that.  If he were to stand trial, he would still be guilty, it's just that he's no longer evil (at the moment).

Dude, seriously. I was not talking about in movie shit. I was talking about how fans of the Star Wars series like Vader when he's an evil motherfucker.

Anyone who says they're a fan of the "dark side" is just a try-hard ass. They are modeled after Nazis and fucking murder millions of innocent people. If you seriously are a fan of that then you're crazy.

Well, Dude, seriously, when you inexplicably and ambiguously switch context with your replies people don't realize that and assume that you're talking about the topic at hand.


PS: Please don't take that comment out of context, I was actually talking to someone else, about something else, that has nothing to do with you, Rooster, switching topics mid thread.

I never switched context. I think someone just assumed I meant in world... and I corrected them on it already.

[Pongo]

I'm game for conceding the point in the interest of getting back on topic.

[Lord Dave]

Yeah, there was this scene on Dagobah:



Of course, this provides probably the strongest evidence of all of how much the prequels fucked up by overemphasizing flashy combat and lightsaber acrobatics as being the main role of a Jedi.  You know you've gone way off-base when lines like "Your weapons...you will not need them," have been replaced with stupid shit like this:

Luke did do a flip...

And I always took the "Your weapons... you will not need them" as "You're going to have a mind trip.  There is nothing that can hurt you there."

[Rushy]

Ren was powerful enough to force stop a blaster bolt mid-flight; why didn't he just force choke Finn to death? Finn had no force powers and would have no defense against that attack.

There were multiple parts in there movie in which Finn should have died but didn't and had other characters save his ass. He is the new Jar-Jar.

[Lord Dave]

Ren was powerful enough to force stop a blaster bolt mid-flight; why didn't he just force choke Finn to death? Finn had no force powers and would have no defense against that attack.

There were multiple parts in there movie in which Finn should have died but didn't and had other characters save his ass. He is the new Jar-Jar.

Is that really a measure of powerful?  How much "power" do you think is required to stop a low mass bolt of plasma?  Especially if Size Matters Not.  The only power it really requires is prediction and any force user who can block blaster bolts with a lightsaber could predict this and stop it.

As for force choking:  He was angry and injured.  Yes he could have just force chocked him, but I suspect he was just "GGGRRRR!" *swing*.  Heck, he could have force pushed him against a tree.  And unless I'm remembering wrong, that fight wasn't long but it certainly was enough time for Ren to get back up.

And I wouldn't call him the new Jar-Jar.  Finn may be a hero who constantly gets saved, but at least he's not getting out of trouble with very stupid things.  In fact, he's usually the one who gets his ass kicked quickly despite being at least competent in combat. 

Also, I think this movie shows enough evidence that storm trooper aim is poor due to the helmet.  Once removed, their aim improves dramatically.

[Ghost Spaghetti]

Furthermore, the plot of Star Trek was very understandable.

It was, but there were gaping plot-holes, mostly to do with the bad guy and his motivations -- why he waited twenty-odd years to attack Vulcan, etc.

But this isn't a conversation about Trek.

Maybe Saddam is right and I am blaming the wrong guy, but whether it's Abrams himself or the people he has writing/ producing with him, there are a lot of very familiar tropes which seem to emerge from anything that J.J. touches.

[Roundy]

I'm not reading through this entire thread to see what others have had to say.  I saw it yesterday and I enjoyed it.  If FES is the reflection of the rest of the internet that it has tended to be in the past then I am sure some people are complaining that it's too much like the original movie, or that there's too much pandering to the fanbase.

Both arguments are stupid.

I enjoyed it.  I thought the new characters were engaging and I liked the actors playing them.  It was a good story.  Even if it did borrow a little heavily from the original movie, the original movie borrowed heavily from myth, spaghetti westerns, and pulp serials itself, so who cares?  I appreciated that the look of the originals was recaptured by shooting on 35mm film and that those ridiculous digital effects that cluttered the prequels were minimized.  They were never going to please everybody, and certain people (Saddam, for example, or Thork I'm sure) were probably looking for things to nitpick the whole time they were watching the movie.  That's fine; everybody thinks they're a critic.  I left the theater satisfied and looking forward to seeing where they're going with the story and that's what matters to me.

[Saddam Hussein]

>doesn't bother reading the thread

>assumes I disliked it

okay dude

[Pongo]

I just watched Episode IV and its soooooooo unrealistic that Luke completely believes in the force after like 30 min and then a few hours later uses these skills (THAT HE JUST LEARNED!!!!) to blow up the Death Star. I hope this doesn't set the tone for any future sequels.

[Roundy]

>assumes I disliked it

When did I do that?  All I really said was that you would have looked for things to nitpick about it, and I have like eight years of history backing me up on that.

[beardo]

sadaam nitpicks everything

[Saddam Hussein]

>assumes I disliked it

When did I do that?  All I really said was that you would have looked for things to nitpick about it, and I have like eight years of history backing me up on that.

ur retartet but u donut even no it and i walnut tell u y

Also, your odd defense of the repeated elements in this film by pointing to the original trilogy's influences is ridiculous.  Pretty much every story in this day and age is going to be influenced by something, but most people - especially younger audiences - would have very little familiarity with spaghetti westerns and goofy capeshit serials.  There's no comparison between a movie being derivative of sources like those and a movie being derivative of one of the most successful movies of all time, which it also happens to be a direct sequel to.

[Rama Set]

>assumes I disliked it

When did I do that?  All I really said was that you would have looked for things to nitpick about it, and I have like eight years of history backing me up on that.

ur retartet but u donut even no it and i walnut tell u y

Also, your odd defense of the repeated elements in this film by pointing to the original trilogy's influences is ridiculous.  Pretty much every story in this day and age is going to be influenced by something, but most people - especially younger audiences - would have very little familiarity with spaghetti westerns and those goofy capeshit serials.  There's no comparison between a movie being derivative of sources like them and a movie being derivative of one of the most successful movies of all time, which it also happens to be a direct sequel to.

The point is that every plot and story is a derivative and the amount of original material does not directly correlate to the quality of the film.  You can have the simplest, most well-known story still be incredibly engaging, moving and entertaining.  You can have a complete rehashing of a story be even better than the original, something we accept readily in music but seem caught up on in film for some reason.

As I see it, the new star wars movie is not good because it has a really refreshing or original feeling plot, but because of the integrity of the character's and it's commitment to telling their story along with a beautiful design.