Re: The Witcher Series
« Reply #40 on: June 15, 2015, 10:45:31 PM »
In fairness, while Tolkien did derive his inspiration from a number of sources (as any work always does), I think most people would believe that his legendarium stands distinctly separate from the works that influenced it. At least in that it's pretty clear when modern fantasy is reproducing Tolkien, compared to when it's reproducing Norse mythology. Warcraft lore serves as a good example; you can tell where the Greek mythology begins to mesh with Lovecraft, which then meshes with Tolkien.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2015, 03:17:04 AM by Vindictus »

Saddam Hussein

Re: The Witcher Series
« Reply #41 on: June 16, 2015, 01:25:14 AM »
It's funny, 'cause you've got this completely backwards. Fantasy is derived from folklore and myth. Now, European folklore has its similarities from place to place, mostly due to trade, some fluidity of borders (where/when the concept of "borders" even applies) and thousands of years of semi-common heritage. I imagine that's where the confusion comes from, what with you having been primarily exposed to American history education. In any case, saying that the Witcher reproduces Tolkien is just about as idiotic as to say that The Passion of the Christ reproduces elements from Disney's Hercules.

Of course Tolkien drew from a number of different sources in folklore, but he still organized and tweaked them into an overall setting that was unique for its time and unmistakably his.  For example, a race of people called dwarves with a talent for craftsmanship wasn't new to LotR, but dwarves being this gruff, blunt race with long flowing beards who all live in huge underground cities, love their ale and boisterous drinking songs, have few to no visible women, and speak with Scottish accents (as of the movies; obviously that wasn't in the books) was absolutely new to LotR, and that is what most fantasy franchises shamelessly copy/paste for their own universes.

Quote
I'll assume that by "white" you mean "black".

Derp.  I meant non-white.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2015, 05:21:16 AM by Saddam Hussein »

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: The Witcher Series
« Reply #42 on: June 16, 2015, 02:03:33 AM »
The exclusively using axes in battle was not Tolkien. Thorium, perhaps his second most widely known dwarf hero used an elven sword and Daín Ironfoot used a hammer.
You don't get races of anything ... accept people.

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Re: The Witcher Series
« Reply #43 on: June 16, 2015, 02:41:37 AM »
Dwarves use different weapons in Witcher as well. Saddam, why are you so racist?

Saddam Hussein

Re: The Witcher Series
« Reply #44 on: June 16, 2015, 03:41:41 AM »
Fine, so that wasn't a great example.  I switched it with having Scottish accents and clarified LotR as the main source of these tropes rather than Tolkien himself, as the movies have proven to be extremely influential in their own right.  For example, Bethesda has admitted that the LotR movies were a big influence behind their decision to go from the uniqueness of Morrowind to the blandness of Oblivion.  The point is that nobody these days who wants to add dwarves to their own fantasy universe starts reading up on Norse mythology or whatever.  It's the interpretation of them that Tolkien/Jackson had that now essentially defines them in popular culture.

Re: The Witcher Series
« Reply #45 on: June 16, 2015, 09:15:07 PM »
At least while I thought Dwemer were dwarves until you nerds ruined that as well.

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Re: The Witcher Series
« Reply #46 on: June 16, 2015, 09:55:59 PM »
Fine, so that wasn't a great example.  I switched it with having Scottish accents and clarified LotR as the main source of these tropes rather than Tolkien himself, as the movies have proven to be extremely influential in their own right.  For example, Bethesda has admitted that the LotR movies were a big influence behind their decision to go from the uniqueness of Morrowind to the blandness of Oblivion.  The point is that nobody these days who wants to add dwarves to their own fantasy universe starts reading up on Norse mythology or whatever.  It's the interpretation of them that Tolkien/Jackson had that now essentially defines them in popular culture.
I don't even know what your point is anymore because your history is just incorrect.

In Witcher, dwarves do not live underground, but they do have mines. However, dwarves have always been associated with metalworking and as early as 1812 (Snow White by the Grimm Brothers) have been mining in caves. So definitely not a Tolkien invention.

Dwarves in folklore are usually described as old men with long beards, female dwarfs are hardly ever mentioned, and they were known to guard doorways into mountains.

I dunno, it really just seems like your idea of fantasy comes from Tolkien, but you have no concept of the original mythological sources. I think you give Tolkien waaaay too much credit.

Saddam Hussein

Re: The Witcher Series
« Reply #47 on: June 16, 2015, 11:42:48 PM »
Fine, so that wasn't a great example.  I switched it with having Scottish accents and clarified LotR as the main source of these tropes rather than Tolkien himself, as the movies have proven to be extremely influential in their own right.  For example, Bethesda has admitted that the LotR movies were a big influence behind their decision to go from the uniqueness of Morrowind to the blandness of Oblivion.  The point is that nobody these days who wants to add dwarves to their own fantasy universe starts reading up on Norse mythology or whatever.  It's the interpretation of them that Tolkien/Jackson had that now essentially defines them in popular culture.
I don't even know what your point is anymore because your history is just incorrect.

In Witcher, dwarves do not live underground, but they do have mines. However, dwarves have always been associated with metalworking and as early as 1812 (Snow White by the Grimm Brothers) have been mining in caves. So definitely not a Tolkien invention.

Dwarves in folklore are usually described as old men with long beards, female dwarfs are hardly ever mentioned, and they were known to guard doorways into mountains.

I dunno, it really just seems like your idea of fantasy comes from Tolkien, but you have no concept of the original mythological sources. I think you give Tolkien waaaay too much credit.

ur retartet but u donut even no it and i walnut tell u y

...okay, fine.  Maybe you're right.  But whatever the source, I still don't like how clichéd and predictable most modern fantasy ends up being.  That was one of my big problems with Witcher 2, how right off the bat it drops you straight into a hodgepodge of common fantasy tropes, with very little exposition as to the nature of the world beforehand.  The first Witcher does a much, much better job of easing you into the world and explaining the lore bit by bit.  You said to beardo earlier that he doesn't need to play the first Witcher to get into the series, but I disagree.  The devs seem to take it for granted that anyone playing the sequels has already played the first game and has a good understanding of the lore, and so they don't need an explanation for pretty much anything.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2015, 05:00:34 AM by Saddam Hussein »

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Re: The Witcher Series
« Reply #48 on: June 16, 2015, 11:45:53 PM »
Of course. You shouldn't play The Witcher 2 before you've played The Wither.
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Re: The Witcher Series
« Reply #49 on: June 17, 2015, 02:11:34 AM »
Witcher 2 is not great. But I don't think you need either for the third game. There is some political themes that carry over from the second game, but that's about it. The scoia'tael are in the background, the Lodge is broken, and it's easy to mix up the kings even if you have played 2. Seriously, i don't remember who Radovid is. And who was the king Saskia supported? Was that Radovid?! I don't even know, they all look alike.

Really, even the first game seems to pick up from the books. Like who the balls is Triss and why is she suddenly sleeping with me?! Why is Kaer Morhen a steaming pile?!

But the third game is just all about Ciri who isn't even mentioned in the previous games. Witcher 3 does ask you questions about the choices you made in the previous game, but whatever, you can just make it up. There are continued subplots but you can still easily enjoy it without being too confused, plus there are still plenty of books and glossary pages to read for lorelorelore.

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Offline beardo

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Re: The Witcher Series
« Reply #50 on: June 17, 2015, 05:42:22 AM »
Why is Geralt's hair grey? Is he a really fucking fit old man?
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Re: The Witcher Series
« Reply #51 on: June 17, 2015, 06:53:38 AM »
Why is Geralt's hair grey? Is he a really fucking fit old man?

Gruffy McGruff.

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Offline rooster

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Re: The Witcher Series
« Reply #52 on: June 17, 2015, 10:44:09 AM »
It's mentioned in one of the games but I don't remember which one.

He did so well during witcher training that he was selected for more intense experiments. He almost died and it left him gray. But he is also like 100 years old. Yennefer is older than him. Mutants and sorceress live a long time.

Re: The Witcher Series
« Reply #53 on: June 18, 2015, 09:52:41 PM »
Why is Geralt's hair grey? Is he a really fucking fit old man?

Gruffy McGruff.

It's explained in the first 30 minutes of #1. Witchers are superhuman monster hunters that go through a series of trials to gain their abilities. Can't remember if it was the second or third trial, but it results in grey hair and infertility by the end.

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Re: The Witcher Series
« Reply #54 on: June 18, 2015, 10:40:26 PM »
Eh, close.

In the game it says the Trial of the Grasses left him gray, but in the books it's the "additional experiments". Which makes more sense when all witchers are infertile but only Geralt is gray. And then It makes almost no sense in the show. So whatever, vague witcher experiments.

Re: The Witcher Series
« Reply #55 on: June 18, 2015, 11:44:20 PM »
lore lore lore. I think it's funny that I got to bone Triss in the first real conversation I had with her.

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Re: The Witcher Series
« Reply #56 on: June 19, 2015, 02:23:18 AM »
Triss is a horrible person taking advantage of Geralt's amnesia. I hate her by the end of the second game.

Re: The Witcher Series
« Reply #57 on: June 19, 2015, 03:54:09 AM »
So who should I bang/romance? Everyone?

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Offline rooster

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Re: The Witcher Series
« Reply #58 on: June 19, 2015, 10:45:14 AM »
So who should I bang/romance? Everyone?

You don't have a whole lot of options in 3. If you try both Triss and Yen then they'll know about it. I picked Yennefer. She's canon and Geralt clearly loves her. She's not a great person either but they're well suited.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: The Witcher Series
« Reply #59 on: June 20, 2015, 07:02:26 PM »
So who should I bang/romance? Everyone?

You don't have a whole lot of options in 3. If you try both Triss and Yen then they'll know about it. I picked Yennefer. She's canon and Geralt clearly loves her. She's not a great person either but they're well suited.

So you go from getting to bang everything that moves to this shit? Lame.