[frisbee]

Flat earthers - ignore this guy who claim arguments with mathematics - mathematics don't work in reality it is a big lie that has nothing to add to our life,
mathematics are hoax, and don't work in reality, nothing in mathematics works in reality and no matter what this liar will bring, would change it.
mathematics is a false and hoax.

What? No math?

http://wiki.tfes.org/Distance_to_the_Sun

More flat earth inconsistency? I'm shocked.

[mister bickles]

Just as I thought,  you've got nothing.  Maybe you should link to a few free energy sites, or perpetual motion machine designs

so.....you disagree with the likes of Eric Dollard and Stephen Wolfram, then?
(according to Wolfram...most of the current "mathematical models" of the Universe are bogus rubbish.....you prblby know where Dollard stands) 

You want to try quoting some Nikola Tesla for me,  I've read all his stuff many times?

you couldn't have!
most of his more important stuff is inaccessible to the general public.....
(having been confiscated "back in the day" by T [jew]PTB who run the US gov'    )
but....his over-unity theories have been experimentally verified......
in fact, any-one can follow Bearden's plans and build a free energy machine;
have you?
if you hvn't, then, i guess that proves you've read very little of Tesla's stuff, eh?

[Rayzor]

Just as I thought,  you've got nothing.  Maybe you should link to a few free energy sites, or perpetual motion machine designs

so.....you disagree with the likes of Eric Dollard and Stephen Wolfram, then?
(according to Wolfram...most of the current "mathematical models" of the Universe are bogus rubbish.....you prblby know where Dollard stands) 

You want to try quoting some Nikola Tesla for me,  I've read all his stuff many times?

you couldn't have!
most of his more important stuff is inaccessible to the general public.....
(having been confiscated "back in the day" by T [jew]PTB who run the US gov'    )
but....his over-unity theories have been experimentally verified......
in fact, any-one can follow Bearden's plans and build a free energy machine;
have you?
if you hvn't, then, i guess that proves you've read very little of Tesla's stuff, eh?

Funny you should take that approach,  I have built over unity designs and done a bit of work on them on a consulting basis,  two conclusions I will pass on for free,  (1)  none of the over-unity designs we investigated  work.   (2)   I know of no-one who has a proven over unity machine of any kind that has stood up to event the most basic scrutiny.   One of the designs we were contracted to investigate turned out to be fraud, pure and simple.  Con the unsuspecting suckers out of their money.   Another turned out to be a complete nutter who thought that the flyback energy in a coil was free energy..   I'm still waiting to find a working zero point free energy device,  if you have a working one, or know who has,  I'm interested.    I'd like to see a real cold fusion generator,  but those hopes have faded.

I've no idea what Tesla may or may not have written that has been destroyed or hidden.   But he certainly was an interesting character.   

[mister bickles]

Funny you should take that approach,  I have built over unity designs and done a bit of work on them on a consulting basis,  two conclusions I will pass on for free,  (1)  none of the over-unity designs we investigated  work.   (2)   I know of no-one who has a proven over unity machine of any kind that has stood up to event the most basic scrutiny.   One of the designs we were contracted to investigate turned out to be fraud, pure and simple.  Con the unsuspecting suckers out of their money.   Another turned out to be a complete nutter who thought that the flyback energy in a coil was free energy..   I'm still waiting to find a working zero point free energy device,  if you have a working one, or know who has,  I'm interested.    I'd like to see a real cold fusion generator,  but those hopes have faded

i don't know what, if any, models you have worked on but there was a workable unit made some yrs ago in Australia....
 
the problem is that such inventors are, usually, intimidated and harrassed by T[jew]PTB to shut down their discoveries;
this intimidation and harrassment can be either overt or covert ..... involving large men with sunglasses and noticeable bulges under their left arm-pits or a bank refusing to advance loans on some trivial pre-text;
the overt stuff is especially prevalent in Australia because the public is, pretty much, totally disarmed and helpless;
(there was another outfit in Ireland who, also, developed a workable unit...i think they called it "orbo" or some such but, again, i don't know what happened to them.....most likely the same tactics....a combination of overt intimidation and harrassment  )

(this happened to John Bedini in the US.....over intimidation)

I've no idea what Tesla may or may not have written that has been destroyed or hidden.   But he certainly was an interesting character

unlike that jew fraud Einstein, Tesla was a real scientist.....a total genius to whom we owe, pretty much, almost every bit of technology that we currently use....from flourescent lights to AC power to radio to electric motors to remote control to the internet......

[Rayzor]

Lutec wasn't one that we looked at but, it's yet another rotary magnetic machine,  and their claims of 440% over-unity were based on miscalculations of the energy in a chopped sine wave.   I don't know about large men in sunglasses,  but I have heard there are a lot of extremely pissed off investors who were defrauded.    Their web site has long since vanished.   A quick google search turned up this http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/comment/lutec.htm 

I noticed in that article that John Newman claimed they stole his design.   Now that's interesting....

Beware of scammers who claim their work is somehow related to Tesla's work,   I think they just trot out the  Nikola Tesla name thinking it somehow increases their credibility. 

[mister bickles]

Lutec wasn't one that we looked at but, it's yet another rotary magnetic machine,  and their claims of 440% over-unity were based on miscalculations of the energy in a chopped sine wave

"miscalculations" or not, in the practical demonstrations, the machines ran as per you'd expect for over-unity!

I don't know about large men in sunglasses,  but I have heard there are a lot of extremely pissed off investors who were defrauded

first i heard of it.....

Their web site has long since vanished

or was made to....or they were told to shut it down....
again...as i'v said....its very easy for T[jew]PTB to intimidate Aussies because the overwhelming majority are helpless and dis-armed!

A quick google search turned up this http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/comment/lutec.htm

either a [jew]PTB shill or, more likely, some Aussie with too much time on his/her hands engaging in "tall poppy syndrome"; a national past-time indulged in by the lazy, the shiftless and the down-right stupid against the hard-working/achievers, industrious, creative, motivated and intelligent....   

I noticed in that article that John Newman claimed they stole his design   Now that's interesting....

not really.....
the only person that could claim the design as their own would be Nikola Tesla....who has been dead now for ¾-of-a-century 

Beware of scammers who claim their work is somehow related to Tesla's work,   I think they just trot out the  Nikola Tesla name thinking it somehow increases their credibility

maybe.....but...the biggest "scammers" are T[jew]PTB who push planet-destroying fossil fuels when, as all the evidence indicates, there are free and abundant sources of energy; Tesla's being the simplest and the most abundant....

[Rayzor]

"miscalculations" or not, in the practical demonstrations, the machines ran as per you'd expect for over-unity!

Therein lies the problem,  it didn't work.   It was only 33 % efficient instead of the claimed 440%   they screwed up.   It was either fraud or incompetence,  take your pick.

[Pongo]

Lets remember that this this tread is about what space missions are considered legit.  Not the veracity nor verisimilitude of flat-earth theory.

[Pete Svarrior]

Lets remember that this this tread is about what space missions are considered legit.  Not the veracity not verisimilitude of flat-earth theory.

Perhaps we could benefit from a split? It looks like there are at least 3 different things being discussed here, and I imagine people will want to continue said discussions.

[Yendor]

Come on now. Myth Busters is a TV show. You surely don't believe everything you see on TV. Do you think they are going to say anything against what the producers tell them to say or the scientist and engineers?

Conservation of Momentum,  rockets work just fine in space.    Exhaust velocity times exhaust mass = rocket velocity time mass.   Because the mass varies during the burn, you need to use the Tsiolovsky ideal rocket equation.



In any event this topic was beated to death on the other forum.    Why debate it again,  unless you are just continuing your trolling ways. 

By the way,  how did those plastic antenna's and filters work out?  ROTFLMAO!

Hello Razor, I answered your questions on the other site. You know where you called me a clown. Because you didn't come back to me, you didn't read it or you can't comprehend it. Just saying.

[Yendor]

Okay, I won't wast any more of my time explaining how rockets don't work in a vacuum to you guys. Good day!

[Rayzor]

Hello Razor, I answered your questions on the other site. You know where you called me a clown. Because you didn't come back to me, you didn't read it or you can't comprehend it. Just saying.

Rodney,  I'm not in your timezone.   Sometimes maybe not even on the same planet.   

Back to legitimate space missions,   I'm happy to accept them all,  but let's stick with missions that are easily proven to be real. 

GPS satellites.   ( I'll include Russian and Euro systems)
Each satellite broadcasts it's position in real-time,  because of that we can just look at the signal from the satellite and we know exactly where each satellite is in real time.    If you have a GPS that will let you look at the NMEA sequences then one of the commands lists all the satellites the receiver can see, together with azimuth and elevation as well as signal strength.     

Weather Satellites.  ( Multiple international agencies )   Especially those in Geostationary orbit that take full disk images from multiple points around the globe  every 10 minutes or 30 minutes. 
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/07/10/science/An-Image-of-Earth-Every-Ten-Minutes.html?_r=4

Satellite TV.
Look at the dish aiming data, and you will find that all the dishes are pointing to satellites in geostationary orbit over the equator.  The signals cannot be bounced off anything, and ground based transmitters wouldn't propagate very far at satellite downlink frequencies.

[mister bickles]

there could well be some satellites stuck to the under-side of the dome covering the Earth.....that'd make them geo-stationary;

(but...then again....that would mean the rockets carrying them would have to penetrate through the Thermosphere....highly unlikely)

AFA sat' dishes are concerned, they all seem to point upwards @ the same angle..... abt  45°;


as per GPS....there is no explanation as why it seems to "conk out" in the sthrn hemisphere over the Pacific Ocean...unless there ain't any satellites/GPS to start with.....and it all works on a combo' of WWII-era/souped up "radio beacons" &  mobile 'phone cell towers.....which would certainly explain the huge "dead spots" in the southern Pacific 

[Rayzor]

there could well be some satellites stuck to the under-side of the dome covering the Earth.....that'd make them geo-stationary;

(but...then again....that would mean the rockets carrying them would have to penetrate through the Thermosphere....highly unlikely)

AFA sat' dishes are concerned, they all seem to point upwards @ the same angle..... abt  45°;


as per GPS....there is no explanation as why it seems to "conk out" in the sthrn hemisphere over the Pacific Ocean...unless there ain't any satellites/GPS to start with.....and it all works on a combo' of WWII-era/souped up "radio beacons" &  mobile 'phone cell towers.....which would certainly explain the huge "dead spots" in the southern Pacific 

The themosphere is very high temperature,  but bugger all heat capacity,  you would get hotter in a sauna than the thermosphere.

Satellite dishes are at angles which are directly in proportion to the lattitude,  look at a satellite dish on the equator, they are pointing at an arc which goes directly overhead, or for the right satellite it will be straight up.   And in far north finland they are almost pointing at the horizon.

There are no GPS dead spots,  what gave you that idea?    I have used GPS on a plane in mid pacific.
 

[mister bickles]

The themosphere is very high temperature,  but bugger all heat capacity,  you would get hotter in a sauna than the thermosphere

uh.....'course....we just gotta take the word of NASA & their "ilk" for that 1, right?
and....you see.....here's yr problem with them....if the so-called moon missions were a hoax....(for which there is not inconsiderable evidence)....then....every-thing else they say is, more likely than not, also bogus 
no!
we just don't know 100% for sure abt those 2000º temps...i'm plonking for there being enough of an 'atmosphere' to transfer most or all of that intense heat.....

Satellite dishes are at angles which are directly in proportion to the lattitude,  look at a satellite dish on the equator, they are pointing at an arc which goes directly overhead, or for the right satellite it will be straight up.   And in far north finland they are almost pointing at the horizon

i'm only going by what the FEs on Y-tb say, quite frankly...
they've got numerous photos of sat' dishes in numerous locations and they're all pointing in the same direction;
all the ones i'v seen here in Aussie also do that....although i didn't take any notice of that until i stumbled across that little tit-bit on Y-tb....

There are no GPS dead spots,  what gave you that idea?    I have used GPS on a plane in mid pacific.

it was the southern Pacific, mostly.....
again....i'm going by what Sargent and others have said vis á vis flights "dropping off" planefinder sites on the web....
(in the southern Pacific....especially Aucklnd/Syd to Santiago/Buns Ars route )

[Orbisect-64]

All of them. I'm curious if anyone has solid evidence to the contrary...

I totally agree with this!

Because everything they show us on TV is real!

I just got finished watching X-Men.


—

[Rayzor]

The themosphere is very high temperature,  but bugger all heat capacity,  you would get hotter in a sauna than the thermosphere

uh.....'course....we just gotta take the word of NASA & their "ilk" for that 1, right?
and....you see.....here's yr problem with them....if the so-called moon missions were a hoax....(for which there is not inconsiderable evidence)....then....every-thing else they say is, more likely than not, also bogus 
no!
we just don't know 100% for sure abt those 2000º temps...i'm plonking for there being enough of an 'atmosphere' to transfer most or all of that intense heat.....

Satellite dishes are at angles which are directly in proportion to the lattitude,  look at a satellite dish on the equator, they are pointing at an arc which goes directly overhead, or for the right satellite it will be straight up.   And in far north finland they are almost pointing at the horizon

i'm only going by what the FEs on Y-tb say, quite frankly...
they've got numerous photos of sat' dishes in numerous locations and they're all pointing in the same direction;
all the ones i'v seen here in Aussie also do that....although i didn't take any notice of that until i stumbled across that little tit-bit on Y-tb....

There are no GPS dead spots,  what gave you that idea?    I have used GPS on a plane in mid pacific.

it was the southern Pacific, mostly.....
again....i'm going by what Sargent and others have said vis á vis flights "dropping off" planefinder sites on the web....
(in the southern Pacific....especially Aucklnd/Syd to Santiago/Buns Ars route )

The air density in the thermosphere is close to zero.   

I'll skip the satellite tv dish alignment issue,   you can google it yourself.   No point me just googling it and then regurgitating it here. 

I have seen that Mark Sargent video,  what he doesn't appear to know is that those tracking services don't use GPS, they mostly use ADS-B,  which is VHF and radar based and as soon as you get out of range of land the tracking will change to an estimated position.  ( Or just stop tracking)   There are other systems that use satellite telemetry to monitor aircraft performance parameters,  but not all airlines opt to pay for that service,  and I don't know if any of the tracking web services can access that data anyway.  There is also ACARS, which can use satellite links.   Following the disappearance of MH370 there is likely to be a move to get mandatory remote GPS tracking  on all airlines. 

Anyway, the important point I am making is that we know with 100% certainty that the GPS satellites are in orbit exactly where they are supposed to be,  the signal cannot be repeated or reflected because the time of transmission is a part of the position calculation,  and the actual satellite position is contained in the data stream.  If the satellites were not in those orbits the system would not work. 

There are ground based GPS transmitters also,  but they are for AGPS or DGPS systems to provide higher accuracy, they still require the satellite systems.   

Could the transmitters be located elsewhere, other than in orbit?  Yes they could be anywhere, provided that they accurately transmit their REAL position, then the GPS receiver can use that information to calculate a position fix.   Because we can look at the actual  positional  data coming from the GPS transmitters,  we know with certainty that they are in orbit, exactly where they are supposed to be.

[mister bickles]

The air density in the thermosphere is close to zero

OK....then....but....you can't have yr cake and eat it too, eh?   

I have seen that Mark Sargent video,  what he doesn't appear to know is that those tracking services don't use GPS, they mostly use ADS-B,  which is VHF and radar based and as soon as you get out of range of land the tracking will change to an estimated position.  ( Or just stop tracking)   There are other systems that use satellite telemetry to monitor aircraft performance parameters,  but not all airlines opt to pay for that service,  and I don't know if any of the tracking web services can access that data anyway.  There is also ACARS, which can use satellite links.   Following the disappearance of MH370 there is likely to be a move to get mandatory remote GPS tracking  on all airlines. 

Anyway, the important point I am making is that we know with 100% certaintythat the GPS satellites are in orbit exactly where they are supposed to be,  the signal cannot be repeated or reflected because the time of transmission is a part of the position calculation,  and the actual satellite position is contained in the data stream.  If the satellites were not in those orbits the system would not work

uh....see....now....that's where i smell a big, fat rat....that right there.....  "100% certainty" ....we don't know ANY-thing with 100% crtnty;
even mathematical theorems ain't 100% crtn .........  to be 100% certain of any-thing....you would have to be 100% certain of yr premises via a system of deductive logic....but....almost all science uses "inferential" logic....or probable inferences....
for me, all that is 100% certain is the Word of God;
any-thing deducible from that is valid;

There are ground based GPS transmitters also,  but they are for AGPS or DGPS systems to provide higher accuracy, they still require the satellite systems.   

Could the transmitters be located elsewhere, other than in orbit?  Yes they could be anywhere, provided that they accurately transmit their REAL position, then the GPS receiver can use that information to calculate a position fix.   Because we can look at the actual  positional  data coming from the GPS transmitters,  we know with certainty that they are in orbit, exactly where they are supposed to be

that still doesn't explain why you can track 'planes in the northern hemisphere but not in the sthrn Pacific region;
look....let's face it...."radio location" (which is, basically, what GPS is) originated in WWII;
with a few tweaks and twiddling of knobs and electronic upgrades.....its more than reasonable to argue that, basically, that's all we got now....oh...and...if rockets don't work in the vacuum of 'space', then, how did the stllts get up there?
(unless they're all in v low Earth orbit.....but could they be?....if the Theory of Gravity is bogus too....then.....how can they stay in 'orbit'?    )

re: WWII;

the OBOE system & its successor.....the Gee-H system
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oboe_(navigation) ;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gee-H_(navigation) ;

the civilian successor to the above....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distance_measuring_equipment ;

could GPS be a modified version of these?

[Rayzor]

That video is bogus,  the loop of paper is attached to the rocket, so it will stop the thing from moving.   Most of what the guy says is actually correct,  until he fall flat on his face with the loop of paper.

As for 100%,  certainty.   I am 100% certain that I am exactly where the GPS receiver tells me I am.  If the satellites were not in orbits where the transmissions tell the receiver they are then the receiver could not fix my location correctly.

Since I know where I am,  I know the satellites are where they are supposed to be.   They can't transmit false information and still give accurate location fix.

I have a GPS receiver connected to a server being used as a network time reference,  When look at the satellite constellation.  I can see the current positions of all the GPS satellites the receiver can see.

The column on the left is PRN (pseudo random number for identifying the satellite SS sequence)  The Azimuth and Elevation, and SNR ( Signal to Noise Ratio)  The Y or N tells me if that satellite was used in the position fix.

Some hours later..


If they are ground based towers,  then the towers are moving.   If they are balloons or stratellites,  then they are 12,000 miles away,  if the signals are faked then the thing that's faking the signals is in orbit 12,000 miles away and moving.

Yes I'm 100% certain GPS is satellite based and works,  exactly as they say it does.   

Flight tracking,  Rocketry and Gravity can wait for another day. 

[mister bickles]

That video is bogus,  the loop of paper is attached to the rocket, so it will stop the thing from moving.   Most of what the guy says is actually correct,  until he fall flat on his face with the loop of paper

until some-one can post/produce a convincing vid' of a rocket actually working in a vacuum in a laboratory, i'm going with the Y-tb vid' as being a reasonable & valid practical demonstration/experiment ;
(all that counts in the end....not gooble-de-gook mathematics which can be made to say any-thing!)

As for 100%,  certainty.   I am 100% certain....[.......] 

famous last words 
are you now or have you ever been "100% certain" of the moon missions 

Since I know where I am,  I know the satellites are where they are supposed to be.   They can't transmit false information and still give accurate location fix

how do you know all that?
have you been involved in the construction and launch of stllts?
have you gone up into 'space' and actually checked ?

I have a GPS receiver connected to a server being used as a network time reference,  When look at the satellite constellation.  I can see the current positions of all the GPS satellites the receiver can see

are you a fully qualified electronic engineer ?
(IEEE certified)
are you able to take apart yr GPS 'receiver' and analyse every single component and explain in detail how they all work and interact?

 

If they are ground based towers,  then the towers are moving.   If they are balloons or stratellites,  then they are 12,000 miles away,  if the signals are faked then the thing that's faking the signals is in orbit 12,000 miles away and moving

and you know this....how   

Yes I'm 100% certain GPS is satellite based and works,  exactly as they say it does

nice to be that certain...abt any-thing   

Flight tracking,  Rocketry and Gravity can wait for another day

another day.....another nail in the coffin for the "round"/spherical Earth & Big Bang 'universe'