Ghost of V

Re: MEDICAL QUESTION: How does saline spray work?
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2014, 10:53:27 PM »
Vitamin C overdose is not lethal. It causes diarrhea once bowel tolerance is met. And when you reach your bowel tolerance, you then know how much to stay under. No one has died due to Vitamin C overdose. Vitamin C is an vitamin natural to the body. The body knows what to do with vitamins when there is too much of it.

Synthetic medicines are known to be lethal, on the other hand. The body does not recognize synthetic medicines, and doesn't know what to do with them. This is why many drugs have a list of side effects as long as your arm. It's a foreign, unnatural chemical. When chemicals hang around they cause damage.

More than twice as many people die from prescription drugs than from car accidents.

Would you rather put a substance into your body that is natural to it, or would you rather put an unnatural, synthetic substance?

I did not claim that overdosing on Vitamin C was lethal.

That article reads like a paranoid conspiracy theory. Over the counter medication for sinus infections are common, and they are not life threatening. Broadly claiming that synthetic medicines are lethal is intellectually dishonest, because you know that's BS. Despite your paranoid delusions, pharmaceutical companies want to keep the people buying their medicines alive. Not dead.

With that being said, I'd rather take the recommended dose of sinus medicine over an overdose of Vitamin C.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: MEDICAL QUESTION: How does saline spray work?
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2014, 11:06:36 PM »
You can't overdose and die from most natural substances such as vitamins and herbs. If the body doesn't like it, it just gets rid of it. The body and bowel regulates how much Vitamin C it should absorb, and if there's too much, it just allows it to pass through.

Over many millions of years, the mammalian body has gotten to know Vitamin C very intimately. Gaining defenses against eating too many strawberries is something that would have been done very early on in evolution.

Tom, you can and will die from severe overdose of literally anything. Even drinking too much water is deadly. There is nothing you can overdose from and not suffer any ill effects. That is why it is called overdose in the first place.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: MEDICAL QUESTION: How does saline spray work?
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2014, 11:22:00 PM »
Over the counter medication for sinus infections are common, and they are not life threatening.

Yes they are. When you go to the ENT doctor about a raging sinus infection they put you on antibiotics, which are very dangerous. Have you not heard of how dangerous antibiotics are?

Antibiotics Kill Your Body's Good Bacteria, Too, Leading to Serious Health Risks

Antibiotic widely prescribed for decades has dangerous side effects which can kill

Basically, there are 10 times more good bacteria living in harmony with your body than the actual number of human cells (See:Humans Have Ten Times More Bacteria Than Human Cells).  Your body is mostly made up of bacteria. You would be dead if it were not for these bacteria doing good things for us in exchange for survival. When you introduce an antibiotic which goes in and kills everything indiscriminately, it can causes major problems and put you on a path to a chronic fatal illness.

Natural substances merely assist and enhance the body to function better. The body is perfectly capable of curing itself. Eating good whole foods gives the body the enzymes and nutrients it needs. Eating vegetables and fruits provide the vitamins, such as Vitamin C, the body needs to function better and cure its own diseases.

Vitamin C is especially interesting when it comes to human illness because it is the primary vitamin the body uses when targeting the bad things which cause disease. The immune system targets the bad bugs and uses the natural acid of Vitamin C to dissolve them from existence. It's the ammunition the body's immune system uses when targeting disease, not the carpet bombing antibiotics are.

Quote
Broadly claiming that synthetic medicines are lethal is intellectually dishonest, because you know that's BS. Despite your paranoid delusions, pharmaceutical companies want to keep the people buying their medicines alive. Not dead.

Pharmaceutical companies want to make money, and would sooner step over a dead body to make a buck.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2014, 02:42:03 AM by Tom Bishop »

Ghost of V

Re: MEDICAL QUESTION: How does saline spray work?
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2014, 11:25:47 PM »
Pharmaceutical companies want to make money, and would sooner step over a dead body to make a buck.

This makes absolutely no sense.

Why would pharmaceutical companies kill their customers to make money?
« Last Edit: September 20, 2014, 11:30:51 PM by Vauxhall »

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: MEDICAL QUESTION: How does saline spray work?
« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2014, 11:32:51 PM »
Pharmaceutical companies want to make money, and would sooner step over a dead body to make a buck.

This makes absolutely no sense.

They know it's bad. They just don't care. Even if they did care, they will never give you the much better natural substances for your disease since there is no profit in it. Natural substances cannot be patented.

If the good bacteria in your gut is killed off and you develop fungal overgrowth, indigestion, IBD, Chrons, etc, you are now an income stream, giving them a whole lot money then they were getting before. Once you get to the stage of cancer you are now spending hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions, through your insurance, making them rich.

You are going to a FOR PROFIT medical system. They have an incentive to milk you.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2014, 12:59:29 AM by Tom Bishop »

Ghost of V

Re: MEDICAL QUESTION: How does saline spray work?
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2014, 11:35:28 PM »
Pharmaceutical companies want to make money, and would sooner step over a dead body to make a buck.

This makes absolutely no sense.

They know it's bad. They just don't care. Even if they did care, they will never give you the much better natural substances for your disease since there is no profit in it. Natural substances cannot be patented.

If the good bacteria in your gut is killed off and you develop fungal overgrowth, indigestion, IBD, chrons, etc, you are now an income stream, giving them a whole lot money then they were getting before. Once you get to the stage of cancer you are now spending hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions, through your insurance, making them rich indeed.

You are going to a FOR PROFIT medical system. They have an incentive to keep things the way they are.

And how are they making money off you when you're dead?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: MEDICAL QUESTION: How does saline spray work?
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2014, 11:39:56 PM »
And how are they making money off you when you're dead?

By the time you're dead you've spent a whole lot more money on cancer drugs and other drugs for chronic issues than you would have if you spent the rest of your life stopping into your doctors office a couple of times a year for a perfectly safe antibiotic.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: MEDICAL QUESTION: How does saline spray work?
« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2014, 11:59:37 PM »
Tom, you can and will die from severe overdose of literally anything. Even drinking too much water is deadly. There is nothing you can overdose from and not suffer any ill effects. That is why it is called overdose in the first place.

No you cant. The bowel does not absorb everything you eat. Water is an exception to the rule, as water molecules are incredibly tiny and small enough to fit through the filter of the bowels. The bowel filters and manages input on a compound level, not on an atomic one. The filter of the bowels can't be too small, else the bigger and more complex vitamins and nutrients could not be absorbed. The filters of the small bowel aren't small enough to manage water and electrolytes, which is why you might occasionally hear of someone dying of water overdoes, or of a substance containing lots of electrolytes such as sodium.

No one dies of strawberry overdose. If you ate too many strawberries your body would simply reject it. You will be ill from the vomiting and diarrhea, but you will not die. Maybe your body would starve or dehydrate itself to death if you ate so many strawberries for such a prolonged time and no other liquids, fats, enzymes, or  nutrients from other sources. But as far as things like "strawberry toxicity," it does not exist.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2014, 03:09:50 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline markjo

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Re: MEDICAL QUESTION: How does saline spray work?
« Reply #28 on: September 21, 2014, 01:08:00 AM »
And how are they making money off you when you're dead?

By the time you're dead you've spent a whole lot more money on cancer drugs and other drugs for chronic issues than you would have if you spent the rest of your life stopping into your doctors office a couple of times a year for a perfectly safe antibiotic.

I wonder how health insurance companies feel about that, especially now with Obamacare in effect.
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Offline Rama Set

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Re: MEDICAL QUESTION: How does saline spray work?
« Reply #29 on: September 21, 2014, 01:08:16 AM »
While it might theoretically be possible to accidentally overdose on Vitamin C, the logistics make it inconceivable. The LD50 in rats is 11.9g/kg. Assuming a similar level for humans you are talking about 550,000mg for a 50kg human, which is 275 of the highest dosage tablet generally seen on the market. Taking in to account that Vitamin C is water soluble, and excess quantities do not stay in your system for very long I think you would deliberately have to set out to OD on flinstones vitamins.
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Offline Rushy

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Re: MEDICAL QUESTION: How does saline spray work?
« Reply #30 on: September 21, 2014, 01:28:42 AM »
No you cant. The bowel does not absorb everything you eat. Water is an exception to the rule, as water molecules are incredibly tiny and small enough to fit through the filter of the bowels. The bowel filters and manages input on a compound level, not on an atomic one. The filter of the bowels can't be too small, else the bigger and more complex vitamins and nutrients could not be absorbed. The filters of the small bowel aren't small enough to manage water and electrolytes, which is why you might occasionally hear of someone dying of water overdoes, or some other substance containing lots of electrolytes such as sodium.

No one dies of strawberry overdose. If you ate too many strawberries your body would simply reject it. You will be ill from the vomiting and diarrhea, but you will not die. Maybe your body would starve or dehydrate itself to death if you ate so many strawberries for such a prolonged time and no other liquids, fats, enzymes, or  nutrients from other sources. But as far as things like "strawberry toxicity," it does not exist due to te superior regulation of the bowels.

You can and will die from strawberry overdose.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: MEDICAL QUESTION: How does saline spray work?
« Reply #31 on: September 21, 2014, 01:33:46 AM »
While it might theoretically be possible to accidentally overdose on Vitamin C, the logistics make it inconceivable. The LD50 in rats is 11.9g/kg. Assuming a similar level for humans you are talking about 550,000mg for a 50kg human, which is 275 of the highest dosage tablet generally seen on the market. Taking in to account that Vitamin C is water soluble, and excess quantities do not stay in your system for very long I think you would deliberately have to set out to OD on flinstones vitamins.

That's assuming that absorption of Vitamin C was 100%, which it isn't. If you could swallow 550,000 mg, the theoretical lethal dose, you would actually absorb very little of it.

Vitamins In Foods: Analysis, Bioavailability, and Stability

Quote
"Beyond physiological intakes, absorption becomes progressively less efficient, falling from 75% of a single 1-g dose to 16% of a single 12-g dose (Table 19.2). This fall-off in efficiency occurs because absorption of high luminal concentrations of vitamin C takes place mainly by simple diffusion, and this passive movement proceeds at a very low rate."
« Last Edit: September 21, 2014, 01:47:54 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: MEDICAL QUESTION: How does saline spray work?
« Reply #32 on: September 21, 2014, 03:20:28 AM »
And how are they making money off you when you're dead?

By the time you're dead you've spent a whole lot more money on cancer drugs and other drugs for chronic issues than you would have if you spent the rest of your life stopping into your doctors office a couple of times a year for a perfectly safe antibiotic.

I wonder how health insurance companies feel about that, especially now with Obamacare in effect.

Insurance companies are evil too. The insurance companies are very strict about what doctors can and can't do. They typically have doctors send patients to do one major test at a time. An ultrasound of the Kidneys here, an upper endoscopy there. Medical tests can take a long time to schedule. This is unfortunate when someone has a chronic condition, exhibiting many issues throughout their body, and needs a full workup. A full workup in a non-emergency setting can take years. It's a slow game, hoping that the patient either gets better or dies before the insurance company has to put out too much money.

Also, the yearly $6000 medical deductible and $6000 prescription deductibles in the low range Obamacare plans designed for low-income people discourages them from going to the doctor, which is an evil unto its own.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2014, 07:41:56 PM by Tom Bishop »

Re: MEDICAL QUESTION: How does saline spray work?
« Reply #33 on: September 30, 2014, 04:40:05 PM »
Tom, you can and will die from severe overdose of literally anything. Even drinking too much water is deadly. There is nothing you can overdose from and not suffer any ill effects. That is why it is called overdose in the first place.

No you cant. The bowel does not absorb everything you eat. Water is an exception to the rule, as water molecules are incredibly tiny and small enough to fit through the filter of the bowels. The bowel filters and manages input on a compound level, not on an atomic one. The filter of the bowels can't be too small, else the bigger and more complex vitamins and nutrients could not be absorbed. The filters of the small bowel aren't small enough to manage water and electrolytes, which is why you might occasionally hear of someone dying of water overdoes, or of a substance containing lots of electrolytes such as sodium.

No one dies of strawberry overdose. If you ate too many strawberries your body would simply reject it. You will be ill from the vomiting and diarrhea, but you will not die. Maybe your body would starve or dehydrate itself to death if you ate so many strawberries for such a prolonged time and no other liquids, fats, enzymes, or  nutrients from other sources. But as far as things like "strawberry toxicity," it does not exist.
You can certainly die from eating too many carrots, too much cinnamon, and a lot of other natural things.  Not to mention that a lot of natural plants are toxic in even the smallest doses, such as several species of mushrooms (I know, fungus not plant).

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: MEDICAL QUESTION: How does saline spray work?
« Reply #34 on: September 30, 2014, 06:14:13 PM »
Tom, you can and will die from severe overdose of literally anything. Even drinking too much water is deadly. There is nothing you can overdose from and not suffer any ill effects. That is why it is called overdose in the first place.

No you cant. The bowel does not absorb everything you eat. Water is an exception to the rule, as water molecules are incredibly tiny and small enough to fit through the filter of the bowels. The bowel filters and manages input on a compound level, not on an atomic one. The filter of the bowels can't be too small, else the bigger and more complex vitamins and nutrients could not be absorbed. The filters of the small bowel aren't small enough to manage water and electrolytes, which is why you might occasionally hear of someone dying of water overdoes, or of a substance containing lots of electrolytes such as sodium.

No one dies of strawberry overdose. If you ate too many strawberries your body would simply reject it. You will be ill from the vomiting and diarrhea, but you will not die. Maybe your body would starve or dehydrate itself to death if you ate so many strawberries for such a prolonged time and no other liquids, fats, enzymes, or  nutrients from other sources. But as far as things like "strawberry toxicity," it does not exist.
You can certainly die from eating too many carrots, too much cinnamon, and a lot of other natural things.  Not to mention that a lot of natural plants are toxic in even the smallest doses, such as several species of mushrooms (I know, fungus not plant).

You're mixing in a couple of things here. The topic here is overdose, not poisoning. When you die from eating a poisonous fungus you have not "overdosed" on it.

As per carrots, you will not die from carrot overdose. You are sooner to die from the poisonous pesticides on the carrot, than the actual carrot. You might die from cinnamon, since store bought cinemmon has a lot of preservatives and flow agents in them. But actual organic cinnemon that the body recognizes as a food source will not lead to death if consumed in large quantity. The body will just expel it out.

Try to find a story of someone dying of eating too may strawberries or carrots. It will be difficult to find.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 06:48:24 PM by Tom Bishop »

Re: MEDICAL QUESTION: How does saline spray work?
« Reply #35 on: September 30, 2014, 07:42:45 PM »
You'll start to turn orange if you eat too many carrots, continue to eat more over a period of time and you'll die.  Also, poisoning is the same as overdosing, it's just that poisonous plants have a very low overdose level.  Why do you think drinking 2 gallons of water in an hour leads to water toxicity aka water poisoning?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: MEDICAL QUESTION: How does saline spray work?
« Reply #36 on: September 30, 2014, 10:08:47 PM »
You'll start to turn orange if you eat too many carrots, continue to eat more over a period of time and you'll die.  Also, poisoning is the same as overdosing, it's just that poisonous plants have a very low overdose level.  Why do you think drinking 2 gallons of water in an hour leads to water toxicity aka water poisoning?

You wont die of carrots, the body regulates how many nutrients are absorbed. As we saw earlier in the thread, if you take 1g of powdered Vitamin C almost everything is absorbed. If you take 13g, almost nothing is absorbed. The same goes for other types of nutrients. The bowel does not simply absorb everything you shove in your mouth.

Water and electrolytes are the few exceptions to the rule because the molecules are too small to be regulated by the bowels, and just pass through. The filters of the bowels are on a larger scale to regulate the bigger and more complex vitamins, fibers, fats, and nutrients. This is why it is possible to die from drinking too much water, but not die from eating too many strawberries. The body is more concerned about you getting the exact ratio of nutrients to match its present needs than stopping you from doing something stupid like ignoring your instincts to stop drinking down gallons of water.

As per poisons like cyanide and hemlock, and poisons that physically destroy the cells of the gut to punch its way in and destroy everything in its path, that's not really in the realm of discussion.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 10:17:53 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Particle Person

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Re: MEDICAL QUESTION: How does saline spray work?
« Reply #37 on: September 30, 2014, 10:31:24 PM »
Tom, you can and will die from severe overdose of literally anything. Even drinking too much water is deadly. There is nothing you can overdose from and not suffer any ill effects. That is why it is called overdose in the first place.

No you cant. The bowel does not absorb everything you eat. Water is an exception to the rule, as water molecules are incredibly tiny and small enough to fit through the filter of the bowels. The bowel filters and manages input on a compound level, not on an atomic one. The filter of the bowels can't be too small, else the bigger and more complex vitamins and nutrients could not be absorbed. The filters of the small bowel aren't small enough to manage water and electrolytes, which is why you might occasionally hear of someone dying of water overdoes, or of a substance containing lots of electrolytes such as sodium.

No one dies of strawberry overdose. If you ate too many strawberries your body would simply reject it. You will be ill from the vomiting and diarrhea, but you will not die. Maybe your body would starve or dehydrate itself to death if you ate so many strawberries for such a prolonged time and no other liquids, fats, enzymes, or  nutrients from other sources. But as far as things like "strawberry toxicity," it does not exist.
You can certainly die from eating too many carrots, too much cinnamon, and a lot of other natural things.  Not to mention that a lot of natural plants are toxic in even the smallest doses, such as several species of mushrooms (I know, fungus not plant).

You're mixing in a couple of things here. The topic here is overdose, not poisoning. When you die from eating a poisonous fungus you have not "overdosed" on it.

As per carrots, you will not die from carrot overdose. You are sooner to die from the poisonous pesticides on the carrot, than the actual carrot. You might die from cinnamon, since store bought cinemmon has a lot of preservatives and flow agents in them. But actual organic cinnemon that the body recognizes as a food source will not lead to death if consumed in large quantity. The body will just expel it out.

Try to find a story of someone dying of eating too may strawberries or carrots. It will be difficult to find.

You'll die if you consume too much of anything, even carrots or water.
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Offline Rama Set

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