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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: McDonalds can't even pay people to interview...
« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2021, 11:39:15 PM »
Zippia? McD claims that the average age of an hourly employee is 20. Presumably we are talking about the cooks and cashiers earning an hourly rate.

https://www.mcdonalds.com/gb/en-gb/help/faq/18338-what-is-the-average-age-of-a-mcdonalds-employee.html

That’s the UK.

No, it doesn't specify that the age is only for UK restaurants. The mcdonalds.com website is also the USA website.



And if McD's statistics are wrong or don't apply to the US, it could be because in recent years they have been trying to hire much older seniors and retirees, skewing some averages since they are much older:

https://www.ibtimes.com/mcdonalds-hire-older-employees-aged-fifty-above-hopes-seniors-take-morning-shifts-2787757

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Business
McDonald’s To Hire Older Employees Aged Fifty And Above, Hopes Seniors Take Morning Shifts
By Kalyan Kumar
04/24/19 AT 10:40 PM

Fast food giant McDonald’s is throwing open its workforce to people at 50 and above in a bid to address the shortage of young workers on morning shifts. The apparent shortage of adequate young workers on morning shifts will affect the breakfast and lunchtime business.

For the new initiative, the company has joined hands with AARP—a non-profit supporting aged Americans. Under the partnership, all U.S. job postings from Mc Donald’s will appear on AARP’s job board.

So just the opposite now, people who have spare time to earn some spending money.

It also says in that 2019 article:

"At present, 11 percent of the workers at McDonald’s restaurants are in the age band of 50 and above with teen workers constituting 40 percent of the workforce."

40 percent are teenagers. Young people clearly make up a very large percentage of the workforce.

It's a job for kids. Always has been.


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But if you're in your late 20's or older and still working the kitchen and drive through at McDonald's, that's your own fault.

Classic retarded conservative talking point. Only an idiot thinks all of your employment conditions are under your control. Are you an idiot?

In most cases your employment conditions are under your control. People don't just wake up one day and find that they are highly paid programmers.  ::)

Does the phrase "I'm alright, Jack" have any resonance for you?

Yes. The people wanting free education, housing, and medicine are acting only in their own best interest and not the interest of society who would otherwise have to foot that bill for them. Grow up and take care of your own self.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2021, 01:06:51 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: McDonalds can't even pay people to interview...
« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2021, 01:04:22 AM »
A source from U.S. Bureau of Labor and Statistics for 2020:

https://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat11b.htm

Fast food and counter workers

[Number in thousands]

Total, 16 years and over: 655

16 to 19 years: 262

20 to 24 years: 166

25 to 34 years: 91

35 to 44 years: 55

45 to 54 years: 39

55 to 64 years: 31

65 years and over: 12

Median age: 22.4

Obviously it's mostly young people aged 16 - 24.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2021, 01:05:53 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: McDonalds can't even pay people to interview...
« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2021, 01:12:43 AM »
Zippia? McD claims that the average age of an hourly employee is 20. Presumably we are talking about the cooks and cashiers earning an hourly rate.

https://www.mcdonalds.com/gb/en-gb/help/faq/18338-what-is-the-average-age-of-a-mcdonalds-employee.html

That’s the UK.

No, it doesn't specify that the age is only for UK restaurants. The mcdonalds.com website is also the USA website.


Notice the link here has “en-us” and the one you posted has “en-gb”? Probably not. The very next card in the FAQ talks about how they are the largest first employer in... the UK.

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And if McD's statistics are wrong or don't apply to the US, it could be because in recent years they have been trying to hire much older seniors and retirees, skewing some averages since they are much older:

https://www.ibtimes.com/mcdonalds-hire-older-employees-aged-fifty-above-hopes-seniors-take-morning-shifts-2787757

Quote
Business
McDonald’s To Hire Older Employees Aged Fifty And Above, Hopes Seniors Take Morning Shifts
By Kalyan Kumar
04/24/19 AT 10:40 PM

Fast food giant McDonald’s is throwing open its workforce to people at 50 and above in a bid to address the shortage of young workers on morning shifts. The apparent shortage of adequate young workers on morning shifts will affect the breakfast and lunchtime business.

For the new initiative, the company has joined hands with AARP—a non-profit supporting aged Americans. Under the partnership, all U.S. job postings from Mc Donald’s will appear on AARP’s job board.

So just the opposite now, people who have spare time to earn some spending money.

It also says in that 2019 article:

"At present, 11 percent of the workers at McDonald’s restaurants are in the age band of 50 and above with teen workers constituting 40 percent of the workforce."

40 percent are teenagers. Young people clearly make up a very large percentage of the workforce.

It's a job for kids. Always has been.

So the majority aren’t teens. Thanks for confirming.

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But if you're in your late 20's or older and still working the kitchen and drive through at McDonald's, that's your own fault.

Classic retarded conservative talking point. Only an idiot thinks all of your employment conditions are under your control. Are you an idiot?

In most cases your employment conditions are under your control. People don't just wake up one day and find that they are highly paid programmers.  ::)

I’m not sure why you think that’s relevant but... ok, boomer.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2021, 01:19:01 AM by Rama Set »
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: McDonalds can't even pay people to interview...
« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2021, 01:15:58 AM »
Notice the link here has “en-us” and the one you posted has “en-gb”? Probably not. The very next card in the FAQ talks about how they are the largest first employer in... the UK.

It's the USA and UK website. There is not a USA-Specific FAQ. The number is either 20 or close to 20. US Bureau of Labor and Statistics says the median age of fast food workers in the US for 2020 is 22.4. Looking at those statistics by age shows that the bulk of the workers are aged 16 - 24. This trumps whatever source you are trying to dig up claiming that the average age of fast food workers is 27.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2021, 01:20:46 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: McDonalds can't even pay people to interview...
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2021, 01:42:03 AM »
More evidence that fast food work is just a temporary job for people:

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/29/fast-food-restaurants-in-america-are-losing-100percent-of-workers-every-year.html

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Panera is losing nearly 100% of its workers every year as fast-food turnover crisis worsens

PUBLISHED THU, AUG 29 2019 8:45 AM

- Panera Bread loses close to 100% of its workers every year.
- For fast-food chains employee turnover runs as high as 130% to 150%, according to industry measures.
- McDonald’s is spending nearly $1 billion in 2019 to add ordering kiosks and other tech to stores.
- Some experts believe it is inevitable that fast food will be the first job sector ruled by robots.

If you think it sounds like a mathematical impossibility for a company to lose more than 100% of its workers every year, you’ve never worked in the fast-food industry. At fast-food restaurants, losing 100% of employees — and then losing still more of the employees hired to replace those workers — is a common, and worsening, labor problem.

The case of Panera Bread shows just how deep the employee turnover issue is for restaurant companies. Panera loses close to 100% of workers every year, and by fast-food industry standards that’s considered good.

“In the restaurant industry, turnover is 130%, turning over more than a full workforce every year,” said Panera bread CFO Michael Bufano at CNBC’s @Work Human Capital + Finance conference in July. “We are a little under 100%, but still a huge number.”

...

Abraham Pizam, chair in tourism management and the founding dean of Rosen College of Hospitality Management at the University of Central Florida, says his position is not popular among academic peers, but he is convinced the fast-food industry is on a path to be the first to fully automate.

Low wages, lack of career paths and an overwhelming belief among the working public that fast-food jobs should only ever be temporary all contribute to the worsening turnover issues. “You talk to an employee here in the U.S. and it is nothing to be proud of,” he said. “It’s a job until I graduate or until I’m back on my feet,” he said. “No one who thinks of a job as temporary is motivated.”

There are no other job segments in the U.S. that have higher turnover than the fast-food and fast-casual segments of the restaurant industry, according to DiPietro at the University of South Carolina’s School of Hotel, Restaurant and Tourism Management. “Not even retail.”

Yeah, some menial unskilled temporary job that people work at for a few months definitely needs to give leading insurance and wages.  ::)
« Last Edit: May 21, 2021, 02:03:41 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: McDonalds can't even pay people to interview...
« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2021, 02:05:01 AM »
Not leading, living.
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: McDonalds can't even pay people to interview...
« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2021, 03:14:32 AM »
It sure sounds like those people working there had a choice over their work situation, considering that they tend to quit for better things after some short time. They are only using the job as a temporary in-between. It's not a career. It's not meant to support you.

Everyone knows that except for a few fakes, who create ridiculous scenarios where McD is enslaving people.

Ignoring minimum wage laws, if a teenager wants to accept $25 for watching a dog for four hours as they do homework one evening, why not? The teenager is in a position to where their living situation is financed by their parents and don't need to work a living wage. Obviously this is morally congruent to offer that and to accept that, and no one would really care or complain, even though that is below US Federal minimum wage. When the teenager actually wants to earn a living wage to support themselves they will go out and find that job, just like people leave fast food as soon as they can.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2021, 07:34:16 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: McDonalds can't even pay people to interview...
« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2021, 03:33:41 AM »
As you pointed out, the majority of McDonalds employees are not teenagers so don’t make disingenuous arguments.
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: McDonalds can't even pay people to interview...
« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2021, 03:41:54 AM »
As you pointed out, the majority of McDonalds employees are not teenagers so don’t make disingenuous arguments.

There are lots of adults who would like $25 to watch a dog for four hours too. If there were a source of that maybe you shouldn't knock their side job by screaming about living wage, insurance, minimum wage, etc. They know it's just a side job.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: McDonalds can't even pay people to interview...
« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2021, 04:02:51 AM »
As you pointed out, the majority of McDonalds employees are not teenagers so don’t make disingenuous arguments.

There are lots of adults who would like $25 to watch a dog for four hours too. If there were a source of that maybe you shouldn't knock their side job by screaming about living wage, insurance, minimum wage, etc. They know it's just a side job.

Hey nice work making up that its their side job.  Debating is easy when you make things up I hear.
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Offline Tumeni

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Re: McDonalds can't even pay people to interview...
« Reply #30 on: May 21, 2021, 09:57:53 AM »
Reading between the lines, Tom seems to be in a time-warp intersecting the 1950s and 1960s.

Temporal anomaly alert.
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: McDonalds can't even pay people to interview...
« Reply #31 on: May 21, 2021, 08:40:50 PM »
Zippia? McD claims that the average age of an hourly employee is 20. Presumably we are talking about the cooks and cashiers earning an hourly rate.

https://www.mcdonalds.com/gb/en-gb/help/faq/18338-what-is-the-average-age-of-a-mcdonalds-employee.html



But if you're in your late 20's or older and still working the kitchen and drive through at McDonald's, that's your own fault.
Unless your only source of income to pay for college is working at McDonalds, which isn't paying enough for tuition....

Quote
Quote from: Lord Dave
Well... it would benefit everyone in society so... I mean... not just personal.

I can afford insurance just fine. It's not going to benefit me if the government increases taxes to support people to supplement the lives of twenty year-olds with temp jobs and people who failed in life with this new massive socialized healthcare system.

You want to take from me and provide nothing in return? What a compelling proposal.  ::)
First off, as you've said, most people get insurance through their jobs.  So technially, you're not affording it either: your employer is.  If you lost it right now, how much would your plan cost out of pocket?
And you'd get the national health care plan as well.  So you would lose the payment to your employer (unless they pay for it 100%) and still have insruance.  You'd also lose Medicare and Medicaid taxes on your paycheck.  Probably merging them into one payment, which would benefit you directly since you'd get the insurance your taxes are paying for.

Your employer could then take all the money they save from not having to pay your insurance premiums every month and give it to you as a pay increase.

And the best part?
Your taxes don't have to go up.  Know how much I pay in taxes?  34%.  My big, bad, evil national healthcare system isn't even a separate tax.  Its just part of the 34% income tax I pay on all my income.  But I guess none of that benefits you, huh?

Quote
I've seen this argument before.
Ok, tell me something: What is the progression of career that you think happens?  What kind of economic progress do you assume is the normal?

I think it's normal for people to pick up menial jobs early in life and work to make something better of themselves.
How expectedly vague.
So, how do they better themselves?  School?  Because last I checked, college isn't free.  Ya need money.  Which most people get by working a job.  Oh wait.... the job doesn't pay enough for the hours you can work after school.  (Been there, done that.  And I went to community college).
See Tom, I have ACTUAL experience with this.  Do you?  Have you ever worked at McDonalds or some service job?  Ever had to make car payments on a used car, insurance, and tuition to a community college on a McDonalds Salary? (not to mention gas driving to work and school)  Because I bet you haven't.
And before you cry "Scholarships!" remember: Of the hundreds of thousands of people who may be applying... only a few get it.  So odds are, you're not getting it.
"Loans!" you say to counter:  Yeah.  Great.  Oh wait no... you need to prove you can pay it back WHILE IN SCHOOL.  Yeah, good luck with that on a McDonalds salary.
Or, you know, have parents who will thrown down their house as collateral. 

See, maybe, just maybe, having a decent wage would give these "young people" capital they can save and invest in education so they can give themselves a good jump start on their career while having no experience or job skills yet. Instead of, you know, being a burden on their parents even after they get a job.

Quote
Quote
Also: Why is a job, that is needed, for "young people"?  You do know that McDonalds didn't start their business to give young people a job, right?  They started it to sell burgers.  And if young people don't take the job (as seen by the OP), the job doesn't get done(because older people can't love off the wages) and the restaurant closes.  So... why do you think its for "young people"?  Because the way I see it, its not FOR young people, but rather the only jobs(expanding to the service industry as a whole) young people are qualified to perform.

McD is a business and doesn't care if its workers are young or old. The workers trend younger because it is a norm to work menial unskilled jobs early in your career as you try to make something of yourself. McD managers know it's just a temp job. The workers know that it's just a temp job. I know that it's just a temp job. I'm not sure what your deal is.

If low paying unskilled jobs didn't exist then those young people would probably be leaching off of their parents even more than they are. It serves a purpose which the parents appreciate.
1. McD managers were employees so... not a temp job for them.
2. You have it backwards.  You assume that they take these jobs because they want them.  Trust me, we do not.  We take them because we can't get anything else.  Because being 18 with no education beyond High School means you need a job that has no skills.  Its not "Norm to work menial unskilled jobs" it's literally "the only job we can get".  Its not a cultural thing, it's a literal "We can't do any other jobs yet".

If low paying unskilled jobs didn't exist, we wouldn't have McDonalds, dumbass.  Or movie theaters.  Or restaurants.  Or bars.  Or department stores.  Or grocery stores.  Or any other business that relies on unskilled jobs.  Hell, we wouldn't have fresh picked strawberries either.
These aren't jobs given out of some pity.  They are essential for whatever business venture needs them.  Every job is important.  Go to McDonalds and try to make your own Big Mac and Fries.  See how that goes.  Or head to Macy's and see how easy it is to shop if no one has stocked the shelves.
These jobs exist because they are needed, because something needs to be done.  It may not require great skill, but it requires a human.  And that human is worth being paid enough to actually be able to live until they can move on in their career.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: McDonalds can't even pay people to interview...
« Reply #32 on: May 22, 2021, 06:57:54 PM »
Quote from: Lord Dave
If low paying unskilled jobs didn't exist, we wouldn't have McDonalds, dumbass.

Are you aware that there are unskilled jobs that do pay a living wage? The simple fact is that you just didn't want to do them. You could have joined the military, become a police officer, fire fighter, gone into construction or roofing, sales, waste management, become a flight attendant.

But no, you wanted to stand around and push some buttons and put some things into machines and hand things to people. An "easy" job for a lazy young adult.

The people working in fast food typically have someone else paying for their living situation, and this is just a way to get some spending money for them. You were obviously incapable of selling burgers to people on your own, and had to rely on McDonald's reputation and brand and built up infrastructure to bring in the customers for your wages. You should be grateful that they offered that opportunity to profit off of their hard work.

And you did have a choice of being there. That's why you worked there for a short period of time and then left like everyone else after you had some time to get your bearings. You should be thanking them for feeding you in that situation and rough patch you were in, rather than complaining about it. No large employer will hire you for any kind of job with an attitude like that.

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Offline crutonius

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Re: McDonalds can't even pay people to interview...
« Reply #33 on: May 22, 2021, 09:49:27 PM »
You believe these jobs listed are unskilled?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: McDonalds can't even pay people to interview...
« Reply #34 on: May 22, 2021, 10:03:12 PM »
No more skills than are expected in a high school classroom or PE class, no. When you joint the military they train you on the specifics, just as McDonalds trains you for the specifics of that work. You aren't expected to know how to fire a bazooka to get employed by the military.

The drop out rate in basic training is only 11 - 14 percent; you don't need to be a world class athlete:

https://www.thebalancecareers.com/united-states-military-basic-training-attrition-4052608

"The Navy, Army, and Marines have recruits drop out at roughly the same rate as each other, between 11 and 14 percent annually. Contrary to what many think, the goal of officers in basic training isn't just to push recruits to drop out."

If young fast food workers wanted to pursue this and get better benefits, they largely could. The military is known for excellent tuition assistance. They just don't want to. They just want some quick cash with minimal commitment/travel/effort. That's all they are looking for. Lazy. That's why they are paid as they are. The pay for local fast food jobs is that way for a good logical reason, and not because of some grand scheme to enslave the destitute.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2021, 11:03:40 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Iceman

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Re: McDonalds can't even pay people to interview...
« Reply #35 on: May 22, 2021, 11:12:12 PM »
I'm so curious how many hours per week you worked throughout your youth, at what wage(s) you were paid, and whether that allowed you to do things like pay tuition, buy a house/car shortly after etc.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: McDonalds can't even pay people to interview...
« Reply #36 on: May 23, 2021, 01:33:19 AM »
I didn't have a problem in my youth. I went directly to skilled office jobs and I didn't wait until I had a postsecondary degree. My earnings ranged from 4 times the federal minimum wage at age 16 to 14 times the federal minimum wage at age 24, without any postsecondary credentials at that time whatsoever.

Target a skill that is in rarity, build a resume, convince people that you are technically and professionally competent, pretend that you are teaching them something in an interview. Get a related professional certificate if you need a piece of paper for HR. Actually improve and add value to their company, or start your own company with those special skills you have accumulated, which I would expect a young talented person should be able to do competently and creatively by age 24.

Continue going to college, certainly, but it should ideally be for your own fun and education.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2021, 06:50:33 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Iceman

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Re: McDonalds can't even pay people to interview...
« Reply #37 on: May 23, 2021, 12:49:14 PM »


Target a skill that is in rarity, build a resume, convince people that you are technically and professionally competent, pretend that you are teaching them something in an interview. Get a related professional certificate if you need a piece of paper for HR. Actually improve and add value to their company, or start your own company with those special skills you have accumulated, which I would expect a young talented person should be able to do competently and creatively by age 24.

Continue going to college, certainly, but it should ideally be for your own fun and education.

This is all around good advice, regardless of your field or interests.

Quote
I didn't have a problem in my youth. I went directly to skilled office jobs and I didn't wait until I had a postsecondary degree. My earnings ranged from 4 times the federal minimum wage at age 16 to 14 times the federal minimum wage at age 24, without any postsecondary credentials at that time whatsoever.

This part, based on my experience, and that of all the students I TA'd in university over a 7 year span, is extremely rare these days. Companies have gotten away with offering stagnant minimum wages, and the consistent push to get everyone to get a degree has led to a vast surplus of graduates compared to available jobs. It's a shit show of a trickle-down of recent grads forced to take entry level jobs to build their resume and (hopefully) allow them to stay out of their parents' basements after graduation.

I was lucky to make several dollars an hour over minimum wage throughout high school, working 25-30 hours a week during the school year and 36-40 during the summers between 2002-2006. I saved up 22k over that span, then I enrolled in university, and in a single day, over 15k was gone after writing three cheques: tuition, residence, meal plan, then heading to the library to spend a stupid amount on (used) textbooks.

I'm glad you were able to make money in your youth, and I agree your advice is absolutely still applicable today, but that kind of employment environment simply doesnt exist anymore.

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: McDonalds can't even pay people to interview...
« Reply #38 on: May 23, 2021, 01:34:12 PM »
I didn't have a problem in my youth. I went directly to skilled office jobs ...

When was this?
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: McDonalds can't even pay people to interview...
« Reply #39 on: May 23, 2021, 05:00:59 PM »
I'm glad you were able to make money in your youth, and I agree your advice is absolutely still applicable today, but that kind of employment environment simply doesnt exist anymore.

Sure it does. Have you ever seen the show Shark Tank? You know, the one where it appears that every 24 year old is making hundreds of thousands of dollars?

Well, it has always been that way, regardless of whether the year is 1951 or 2021.  A certain segment of young people take the motivation to either build their own company and product or can convince a company that they can improve their services or product significantly.

Bill Gates dropped out of Harvard. He built skills and identified an opportunity on his own. Gates could have also dropped out to use his skills to help build an OS for IBM, to enjoy a relatively high salary and maybe some stock ownership for the rest of his life (but probably not resulting in becoming a billionaire). Many thousands of others did the same of joining companies to revolutinize them or by starting their own company to lesser, but still relatively significant success.

If you want to do a mindless activity day after day like a robot, well no, that's not going to make you successful, and it never has been that way. The best you can hope for with that tactic is to make enough to make a livable wage. And if you think that a degree guarantees success you are fooling yourself. You will most likely just be doing repetitive activities related to that field day after day at a slightly more livable wage. If you actually want the nice house you have to go out and do it yourself through your own ingenuity without relying on "going into a system".

No one is just going to "give" that nice life to you. You have to really and truly earn it.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2021, 08:20:15 PM by Tom Bishop »