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Offline Tumeni

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Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
« Reply #40 on: April 08, 2021, 01:03:28 PM »
The extracted text as posted above reads to me that the giving of food and drink is only prohibited within 150 feet (50 yards) of the polling place or within the polling place itself.

So it seems it's OK to give out whatever you want outwith this distance.
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
« Reply #41 on: April 08, 2021, 01:14:51 PM »
The stats you gave, lackey, were for areas with mostly non-whites and mostly whites.  What about areas with say... 50% whites and 50% non-whites?

Also, no one is saying you can't have water.  We know the law doesn't say that.  But it does seem to say someome can't give you water.  Which, again, makes no sense.  Its like one of those laws that isn't enforced unless you want to stop someone.  Like if a BLM person starts passing out free water, a cop can stop them.  Or ignore it.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
« Reply #42 on: April 08, 2021, 01:32:49 PM »
The stats you gave, lackey, were for areas with mostly non-whites and mostly whites.  What about areas with say... 50% whites and 50% non-whites?

Also, no one is saying you can't have water.  We know the law doesn't say that.  But it does seem to say someome can't give you water.  Which, again, makes no sense.  Its like one of those laws that isn't enforced unless you want to stop someone.  Like if a BLM person starts passing out free water, a cop can stop them.  Or ignore it.

There also isnt a clear definition for someone who is soliciting votes or polling public opinion which makes it abusable.  I don't think it's a huge deal but it could be and it would have been wise to clear up some of that language.
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Offline Action80

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Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
« Reply #43 on: April 08, 2021, 03:30:58 PM »
The stats you gave, lackey, were for areas with mostly non-whites and mostly whites.  What about areas with say... 50% whites and 50% non-whites?

Also, no one is saying you can't have water.  We know the law doesn't say that.  But it does seem to say someome can't give you water.  Which, again, makes no sense.  Its like one of those laws that isn't enforced unless you want to stop someone.  Like if a BLM person starts passing out free water, a cop can stop them.  Or ignore it.
Why are you calling me lackey?

It says that people who are electioneers (i.e., those persons engaged in stumping for a party or specific candidate) cannot engage in handing out water.

I know about electioneering. As stated earlier, I have 30 years of service in working polling places, as a judge, sheriff, clerk, etc. People do like to try to set up camp and have cookouts and luaus and other such shindigs at these voting places and campaign at the polling place. That is against the law and law enforcement is called as soon as it happens (if within a certain distance of the entrance to the voting machine). All this whining over the law being somehow unjust is typical bs.

The stats you gave, lackey, were for areas with mostly non-whites and mostly whites.  What about areas with say... 50% whites and 50% non-whites?

Also, no one is saying you can't have water.  We know the law doesn't say that.  But it does seem to say someome can't give you water.  Which, again, makes no sense.  Its like one of those laws that isn't enforced unless you want to stop someone.  Like if a BLM person starts passing out free water, a cop can stop them.  Or ignore it.

There also isnt a clear definition for someone who is soliciting votes or polling public opinion which makes it abusable.  I don't think it's a huge deal but it could be and it would have been wise to clear up some of that language.
Seems clear to me that solicitation of votes and polling public opinion is well defined by the words themselves.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2021, 03:33:25 PM by Action80 »

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Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
« Reply #44 on: April 08, 2021, 03:39:42 PM »
Why are you calling me lackey?

Because everyone knows you came back under this handle after you rage quit as Total Lackey.

Quote
Seems clear to me that solicitation of votes and polling public opinion is well defined by the words themselves.

I see you don't care to think about this beyond whatever serves your narrative.  Too bad.
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Offline Tumeni

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Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
« Reply #45 on: April 08, 2021, 03:42:51 PM »
The original code is clearly concerned with distribution of campaign material to, and polling those, in line. The new version, in saying that no person shall distribute food and drink, is vague in that food & drink of itself has no campaign affiliation. It also is unclear on how or whether it could possibly be determined that the person distributing it is doing so as part of campaign activity.

Does the revised text prohibit all persons, or only those engaged in campaigning, from distributing food & drink? Tom clearly asserts that it would not be illegal to do so, were the person not campaigning.  If the person distributing is clearly not a campaigner, it would appear they have free reign to hand out.
 

Quotes for clarity;

The revision is to subsections (a) and (e) of Code 1869 Section 21-2-414 which, according to https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2010/title-21/chapter-2/article-11/part-1/21-2-414/ , currently reads as follows;

Quote
2010 Georgia Code
TITLE 21 - ELECTIONS
CHAPTER 2 - ELECTIONS AND PRIMARIES GENERALLY
ARTICLE 11 - PREPARATION FOR AND CONDUCT OF PRIMARIES AND ELECTIONS
PART 1 - GENERAL PROVISIONS
§ 21-2-414 - Restrictions on campaign activities and public opinion polling within the vicinity of a polling place; cellular phone use prohibited; prohibition of candidates from entering certain polling places; penalty

O.C.G.A. 21-2-414 (2010)
21-2-414. Restrictions on campaign activities and public opinion polling within the vicinity of a polling place; cellular phone use prohibited; prohibition of candidates from entering certain polling places; penalty


(a) No person shall solicit votes in any manner or by any means or method, nor shall any person distribute or display any campaign literature, newspaper, booklet, pamphlet, card, sign, paraphernalia, or any other written or printed matter of any kind, nor shall any person solicit signatures for any petition or conduct any exit poll or public opinion poll with voters on any day in which ballots are being cast:

(1) Within 150 feet of the outer edge of any building within which a polling place is established;

(2) Within any polling place; or

(3) Within 25 feet of any voter standing in line to vote at any polling place.

These restrictions shall not apply to conduct occurring in private offices or areas which cannot be seen or heard by such electors.

(b) to (d) snipped

(e) This Code section shall not be construed to prohibit a poll officer from distributing materials ...

Subsections a and e are amended to;

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(a) No person shall solicit votes in any manner or by any means or method, nor shall any person distribute or display any campaign material, nor shall any person give, offer to give, or participate in the giving of any money or gifts, including, but not limited to, food and drink, to an elector, nor shall any person solicit signatures for any petition, nor shall any person, other than election officials discharging their duties, establish or set up any tables or booths on any day in which ballots are being cast:
(1) Within 150 feet of the outer edge of any building within which a polling place is established;
(2) Within any polling place; or
(3) Within 25 feet of any voter standing in line to vote at any polling place.
These restrictions shall not apply to conduct occurring in private offices or areas which cannot be seen or heard by such electors."

(e) This Code section shall not be construed to prohibit a poll officer from distributing materials, as required by law, which are necessary for the purpose of instructing electors or from distributing materials prepared by the Secretary of State which are designed solely for the purpose of encouraging voter participation in the election being conducted or from making available self-service water from an unattended receptacle to an elector waiting in line to vote."

« Last Edit: April 08, 2021, 03:53:03 PM by Tumeni »
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Offline Action80

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Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
« Reply #46 on: April 08, 2021, 03:49:25 PM »
Why are you calling me lackey?

Because everyone knows you came back under this handle after you rage quit as Total Lackey.
Weird, I happen to be a part of the set known as everyone and I don't know this.

Quote
Seems clear to me that solicitation of votes and polling public opinion is well defined by the words themselves.

I see you don't care to think about this beyond whatever serves your narrative.  Too bad.
I see you trying to sell some narrative of people dying of thirst at polling places and sorry, I don't buy that bs.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2021, 03:51:16 PM by Action80 »

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Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
« Reply #47 on: April 08, 2021, 03:57:14 PM »
Weird, I happen to be a part of the set known as everyone and I don't know this.

Riiiiiiiight

Quote
I see you trying to sell some narrative of people dying of thirst at polling places and sorry, I don't buy that bs.

I have actually said multiple times I don't think its a huge deal.  Stop making shit up, Lackey.
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Offline Dr Van Nostrand

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Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
« Reply #48 on: April 08, 2021, 06:39:51 PM »
For years, the Republican party used their majority in Georgia to chop up black neighborhoods and poor parts of towns to break up their voting block power.  Everything they do is about holding onto their power. They would never do anything that would make voting more transparent or accessible for the general public. Anyone with such a storied career in public service and politics would know that.

This entire bill is more of the same and this arguing over water is just more crap to hide what they're really doing.


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Offline Action80

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Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
« Reply #49 on: April 08, 2021, 07:16:56 PM »
Weird, I happen to be a part of the set known as everyone and I don't know this.

Riiiiiiiight

Quote
I see you trying to sell some narrative of people dying of thirst at polling places and sorry, I don't buy that bs.

I have actually said multiple times I don't think its a huge deal.  Stop making shit up, Lackey.
Actually, the last thing you wrote was that it could become a huge deal.

It already is kind of a huge deal in the US due to the critical race theory garbage substituting for meritocracy.

You know, the kind of stuff you and the good doctor immediately posting above love to push as being legitimate.

"Yeah, I know I do all kinds of stuff, like lie, cheat, steal, drugs on a regular basis without seeking qualified treatment, and yeah, I have a prison record a mile and a half long" = "RACISM BY THE WHITE GUY!!!"
« Last Edit: April 08, 2021, 07:21:21 PM by Action80 »

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
« Reply #50 on: April 08, 2021, 10:22:36 PM »
... the last thing you wrote was that it could become a huge deal.

I think the huge deal is that the legislation is unclear. On the face of it, it reads in isolation that anyone handing out food and drink would be committing a felony. But, as Tom points out, and as the legislation reads in totality, the subsection is concerned with campaigning activity, so it reads that way as if people could only be charged if they were doing the handing out as part of campaign activity.

How do you read it?
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Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
« Reply #51 on: April 08, 2021, 10:33:00 PM »
Actually, the last thing you wrote was that it could become a huge deal.

Very good. You finally figured out what I wrote. Too bad you are assuming it means something it doesn’t.

Quote
It already is kind of a huge deal in the US due to the critical race theory garbage substituting for meritocracy.

You know, the kind of stuff you and the good doctor immediately posting above love to push as being legitimate.

There you go making shit up again.

Quote
"Yeah, I know I do all kinds of stuff, like lie, cheat, steal,

They let Trump vote too!

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drugs on a regular basis without seeking qualified treatment,

1920s guy thinks drugs are baaaaad.

Quote
and yeah, I have a prison record a mile and a half long" = "RACISM BY THE WHITE GUY!!!"

Why should a felon who has served their time continue to be deprived of their constitutional rights?

Or do you just have zero regard for the constitution when it’s people you don’t like?
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Offline Action80

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Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
« Reply #52 on: April 09, 2021, 10:29:08 AM »
... the last thing you wrote was that it could become a huge deal.

I think the huge deal is that the legislation is unclear. On the face of it, it reads in isolation that anyone handing out food and drink would be committing a felony. But, as Tom points out, and as the legislation reads in totality, the subsection is concerned with campaigning activity, so it reads that way as if people could only be charged if they were doing the handing out as part of campaign activity.

How do you read it?
I read it as you are not allowed to electioneer within a certain amount of distance of the polling area.

I also read it as Rama and Dave not knowing how to interpret legislation and making a big deal about some people going to die from thirst while waiting in line for 15 minutes waiting to vote.

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
« Reply #53 on: April 09, 2021, 11:09:00 AM »
I read it as you are not allowed to electioneer within a certain amount of distance of the polling area.

So in your view, it's not an offence for a random member of the public to give something to someone in line?
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Offline Action80

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Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
« Reply #54 on: April 09, 2021, 11:40:42 AM »
I read it as you are not allowed to electioneer within a certain amount of distance of the polling area.

So in your view, it's not an offence for a random member of the public to give something to someone in line?
It never has been against the law for people to give things to other people in line.

That happens all the time, I'm sure.

This law strictly defines what electioneers cannot do.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
« Reply #55 on: April 09, 2021, 12:02:55 PM »
I read it as you are not allowed to electioneer within a certain amount of distance of the polling area.

So in your view, it's not an offence for a random member of the public to give something to someone in line?
It never has been against the law for people to give things to other people in line.

That happens all the time, I'm sure.

This law strictly defines what electioneers cannot do.

If thats all it is then its probably fine.  Especially if its within 150ft only. 

Also:
That 15 min. Wait time was calculated in 2018, a year voter turnout is often lowest.
Also nation wide.  Also for a small segment of areas. (High minority, low minority).

https://www.npr.org/2020/10/17/924527679/why-do-nonwhite-georgia-voters-have-to-wait-in-line-for-hours-too-few-polling-pl?t=1617969656101

5 hours.  For a primary.  And since the precinct is only 88% non-white, it wouldn't fall in your statistic, which only counted 90% or more of non-white precincts.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

Offline Action80

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Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
« Reply #56 on: April 09, 2021, 12:42:41 PM »
I read it as you are not allowed to electioneer within a certain amount of distance of the polling area.

So in your view, it's not an offence for a random member of the public to give something to someone in line?
It never has been against the law for people to give things to other people in line.

That happens all the time, I'm sure.

This law strictly defines what electioneers cannot do.

If thats all it is then its probably fine.  Especially if its within 150ft only. 

Also:
That 15 min. Wait time was calculated in 2018, a year voter turnout is often lowest.
Also nation wide.  Also for a small segment of areas. (High minority, low minority).

https://www.npr.org/2020/10/17/924527679/why-do-nonwhite-georgia-voters-have-to-wait-in-line-for-hours-too-few-polling-pl?t=1617969656101

5 hours.  For a primary.  And since the precinct is only 88% non-white, it wouldn't fall in your statistic, which only counted 90% or more of non-white precincts.
Highest midterm turnout (likely ever) as a matter of fact.

Cute story by npr. Leaves out a lot of the issues actually in play.

Inept workers not following election law currently in place (purposefully, more than likely) resulting in the outrageous tale thus becoming necessary to be told.

I don't care what study you link to or how many npr cases to be offered.

10-15 minutes of wait time is likely to be the most time to wait at any polling booth in the US.

And if you're in a place that has inept morons who don't know what the fuck they are talking about or doing (typically those areas run by Democrats, as described by npr), call a sheriff and demand them to enforce the election law.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2021, 04:04:06 PM by Action80 »

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Offline Dr Van Nostrand

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Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
« Reply #57 on: April 09, 2021, 12:51:47 PM »
Actually, the last thing you wrote was that it could become a huge deal.

It already is kind of a huge deal in the US due to the critical race theory garbage substituting for meritocracy.

You know, the kind of stuff you and the good doctor immediately posting above love to push as being legitimate.

"Yeah, I know I do all kinds of stuff, like lie, cheat, steal, drugs on a regular basis without seeking qualified treatment, and yeah, I have a prison record a mile and a half long" = "RACISM BY THE WHITE GUY!!!"

That's what this is really about for the Trump Republicans. They feel they losing their grip on power and the mongrels are rising. They see voting laws as defending their hard working, white, Christian family values from us libtards. (Libtards being anyone who isn't a Trumpian foot soldier.)

Yep, if you had a hard time making it as a white man in a white man's world, it's only going to get worse for you. That's why handing out water is a threat to you and corporate sponsored gerrymandering isn't.

I'm a conservative but until the Republicans get past this crap, I'm voting for lizards and Libertarians.
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Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
« Reply #58 on: April 09, 2021, 03:17:47 PM »
... the last thing you wrote was that it could become a huge deal.

I think the huge deal is that the legislation is unclear. On the face of it, it reads in isolation that anyone handing out food and drink would be committing a felony. But, as Tom points out, and as the legislation reads in totality, the subsection is concerned with campaigning activity, so it reads that way as if people could only be charged if they were doing the handing out as part of campaign activity.

How do you read it?
I read it as you are not allowed to electioneer within a certain amount of distance of the polling area.

I also read it as Rama and Dave not knowing how to interpret legislation and making a big deal about some people going to die from thirst while waiting in line for 15 minutes waiting to vote.

Stop lying about what I said please. I’ve pointed out a few times that your are inaccurately representing my position.
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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: New Georgia Law and Corporations
« Reply #59 on: April 09, 2021, 03:28:31 PM »
Yeah, I'm gonna have to back Rama up here. Can we drop the strawmanning?
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
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