*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 7528
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: Moon landing Technology-Adam ruins everything
« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2020, 09:01:20 PM »
Quote
How does NASA force France's observatories to lie and return false information on the distance to the Moon using software and consultations, assuming either happen at all?

You have answered your own question. Software is programmed by the programmers and not the operators.
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

*

Offline GreatATuin

  • *
  • Posts: 279
  • It's turtles all the way down
    • View Profile
Re: Moon landing Technology-Adam ruins everything
« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2020, 09:16:20 PM »
Quote
How does NASA force France's observatories to lie and return false information on the distance to the Moon using software and consultations, assuming either happen at all?

You have answered your own question. Software is programmed by the programmers and not the operators.

Do you think researchers in an observatory are unable to get and interpret their own data? These guys know exactly what they are doing. They shoot a giant laser to a mirror on the Moon and get some of that back. They know the system they operate.

Do you have any evidence that any of Grasse's (or Matera, or Wettzell) hardware or software is provided or controlled by NASA?
Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

you guys just read what you want to read

*

Offline stack

  • *
  • Posts: 1526
    • View Profile
Re: Moon landing Technology-Adam ruins everything
« Reply #22 on: October 10, 2020, 09:58:47 PM »
NASA hired some people to write a book to try to debunk the hoax claims, which was turned into a website called Clavius.

Curious, where did you get the information that NASA hired the clavius.org guy(s) to do what they do? I've never run across that.
Not much is known about the celestial bodies and their distances.

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 7528
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: Moon landing Technology-Adam ruins everything
« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2020, 01:06:06 AM »
Quote
How does NASA force France's observatories to lie and return false information on the distance to the Moon using software and consultations, assuming either happen at all?

You have answered your own question. Software is programmed by the programmers and not the operators.

Do you think researchers in an observatory are unable to get and interpret their own data? These guys know exactly what they are doing. They shoot a giant laser to a mirror on the Moon and get some of that back. They know the system they operate.

Do you have any evidence that any of Grasse's (or Matera, or Wettzell) hardware or software is provided or controlled by NASA?

Both Grasse and Matera are part of the ILRS network. The ILRS promotes sharing software to spare builders of the work of "re-inventing the wheel".

https://ilrs.gsfc.nasa.gov/technology/software/index.html

    "Software provides a key element in the acquisition, reduction, and analysis of laser ranging data. Since so much time and effort has already been spent on creating software applicable to laser ranging, it is preferable to have the fruits of those labors be freely available when possible. Having a ready library of software will either spare builders of new stations the work of re-inventing the wheel or to at least provide a starting point from which to build something greater."
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

*

Offline stack

  • *
  • Posts: 1526
    • View Profile
Re: Moon landing Technology-Adam ruins everything
« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2020, 01:33:55 AM »
Quote
How does NASA force France's observatories to lie and return false information on the distance to the Moon using software and consultations, assuming either happen at all?

You have answered your own question. Software is programmed by the programmers and not the operators.

Do you think researchers in an observatory are unable to get and interpret their own data? These guys know exactly what they are doing. They shoot a giant laser to a mirror on the Moon and get some of that back. They know the system they operate.

Do you have any evidence that any of Grasse's (or Matera, or Wettzell) hardware or software is provided or controlled by NASA?

Both Grasse and Matera are part of the ILRS network. The ILRS promotes sharing software to spare builders of the work of "re-inventing the wheel".

https://ilrs.gsfc.nasa.gov/technology/software/index.html

    "Software provides a key element in the acquisition, reduction, and analysis of laser ranging data. Since so much time and effort has already been spent on creating software applicable to laser ranging, it is preferable to have the fruits of those labors be freely available when possible. Having a ready library of software will either spare builders of new stations the work of re-inventing the wheel or to at least provide a starting point from which to build something greater."

I guess if you don't have access to one of these stations, you can always perform a Ham Radio Moon Bounce:

"Radio waves propagate in vacuum at the speed of light c, exactly 299,792,458 m/s. Propagation time to the Moon and back ranges from 2.4 to 2.7 seconds, with an average of 2.56 seconds (distance from Earth to the Moon is 384,400 km)."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%E2%80%93Moon%E2%80%93Earth_communication

Lot's of amateur Ham's do this, no NASA needed.
Not much is known about the celestial bodies and their distances.

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 7528
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: Moon landing Technology-Adam ruins everything
« Reply #25 on: October 11, 2020, 01:42:37 AM »
We spoke about the Moon Bounce on the other website. It can't be done alone. I know that you saw that thread.

Pertinent quotes:

On the topic of the Moon Bounce there are two points:

1.) A licensed Ham radio operator shows that the signal in the EME Moon Bounce shouldn't be possible at all according to the propagation calculators.



2.) The narrator of the above video mentions that the Moon Bounce is suspicious, since an internet connection is apparently required. This is verified by the following link, showing us a EME Moon Bounce Station:



He is communicating with a third party installation, and says at 4:54 that "you need a pretty big station at the other end".

The Moon Bounce is not conducted by setting up your own antenna, broadcasting a signal, and then receiving it. The process involves sending data over the internet to a large (likely government funded) radio astronomy facility and then receiving back the results. References can be found that the technique was developed by the U.S. Military after WWII.

So this "evidence" essentially involves asking the government how far away the Moon is. For what reason this service was made open to the public, who knows. But we may as well just go to the NASA website if we are relying on the government for our information.

Just watch the second video that I posted. He clearly states in the first couple of minutes that he is communicating with a facility in Germany,  and that "he heard me", etc. and at 4:54 "you need a pretty big station at the other end."

https://www.electronics-notes.com/articles/ham_radio/amateur-propagation/moonbounce-propagation-eme.php

Quote
Moonbounce basics

The basis of operation of Moonbounce or EME, Earth-Moon-Earth is the use of the Moon as a passive reflector. In view of the very large distances involved and the fact that the Moon's surface is a poor reflector the path losses are colossal, but nevertheless it is still a form of communication that is theoretically possible to use, and one that many radio amateurs regularly use.


There are clearly two stations in this diagram, not one.


Here is one of many examples of such EME communication between a radio HAM at Mawson Base in Antarctica:
http://www.antarctica.gov.au/news/2013/moon-bounce-in-antarctica

Quote
Moon bounce in Antarctica, 6th June 2013
Amateur radio operator Craig Hayhow has used the moon to bounce a radio signal 742 000 km,
from Mawson station in Antarctica to Cornwall in England.

Proving the feat was no accident, two nights later he performed another ‘moon bounce’ to communicate with radio operators in Sweden and New Zealand.

‘The “Holy Grail” for many serious amateur radio operators is bouncing a radio signal off the moon and reflecting it back to Earth to have a conversation with another station on the other side of the world,’ Craig says.

‘The technical challenges are immense, but with modern high-speed computers and sophisticated software, it has become a lot easier in recent years.’

Craig, who is wintering at Mawson station as a Senior Communications Technical Officer, says his first moon bounce on May 4 this year, was the first time it had been achieved from an Australian Antarctic station and only the third time from the Antarctic continent.

Until recently, the technique was only possible using the largest, most powerful and expensive amateur radio stations.
This is because of the distance the signal has to travel, the amount of power needed to send a strong signal and
the loss of signal as it travels through space.

‘The moon has to be lined up perfectly between the two stations to achieve an adequate reflection,
so we use computer programs to find the optimum time to communicate,’ Craig explains.

‘However, most of the transmitted signal is lost into free space and only about seven per cent of the signal
that strikes the moon is reflected; the rest is absorbed.

‘The Earth’s atmosphere distorts and attenuates the signal even further so that by the time the signal reaches
 the receiving station it is very weak.’

As Craig is operating from a small, ‘home-made’ station, he can only communicate with receiving stations that use multiple,
‘high gain’ antennas and vast amounts of power.

The reference you posted says that he had to perform it with a facility in Cornwall in England.

Quote
Amateur radio operator Craig Hayhow has used the moon to bounce a radio signal 742 000 km,
from Mawson station in Antarctica to Cornwall in England.

The amateur radio operator is working with a facility in England to propagate the signals. Lets do a search on EME Moon Bounce Cornwall England.

The Cornwall facility mentioned is likely the Goonhilly Earth Station and 32-Meter Dish operated by the ESA:

http://www.arrl.org/news/goonhilly-32-meter-dish-to-be-active-on-moonbounce-on-september-1-2

Quote
Goonhilly 32-Meter Dish to be Active on Moonbounce on September 1 – 2

A team of moonbounce enthusiasts expect to activate the 32-meter antenna GHY-6 at Goonhilly, on the Lizard Peninsular in Cornwall (IO70jb) in the UK on September 1 – 2, operating as GB6GHY. The group, including G8GTZ, G8GKQ, and G4NNS, will be on the HB9Q logger while operational, which should be between 0800 and 1200 UTC, but “earlier if possible,” they’ve said.

GB6GHY will concentrate on 3.4 GHz on September 1 and 5.7 GHz on September 2, with the ability to switch bands immediately.

“Anyone with a relatively small dish (3-meter or less) should be able to work us,” their announcement said. The European Space Agency is undertaking a project to upgrade Goonhilly Earth Station to track missions to the Moon and Mars. The work will see the GHY-6 antenna — which carried the 1985 Live Aid concert around the world — upgraded over the span of 2 years.

This cunning proof is a service that a space agency provides.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2020, 02:27:49 AM by Tom Bishop »
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

*

Offline stack

  • *
  • Posts: 1526
    • View Profile
Re: Moon landing Technology-Adam ruins everything
« Reply #26 on: October 11, 2020, 02:31:35 AM »
We spoke about the Moon Bounce on the other website. It can't be done alone. I know that you saw that thread.

I may have been aware of that thread, it was almost a year ago and I don't see me posting anything during the moon bounce part of the discussion, so I can't say for sure. But that doesn't really matter.

HAM EME is primarily used to communicate, not measure the distance to the moon. They bounce their transmission off the moon where someone can pick it up 1000's of KM away. That's why the guy in the 2nd video is talking about his transmission being received in Germany, because he bounced his off the Moon and it could be picked up that far away. Again, primarily for communicating, not for measuring. Though it's really easy to use the same technique to measure the distance to the moon. You are literally bouncing back the transmission to your self, time of echo, known speed of the wave and you have distance. No internet required. And it certainly can be done alone. This is all you need to do:

1) Set up the transmitter/receiver and connect it to the antenna.
2) The antenna and radio transmitter should be within line of sight of the Moon, and the receiver should not be disturbed by interference signals, such as large electric installations nearby. 3) Find out where exactly the Moon is positioned in the sky, as seen from your location at the time of the experiment.
4) Select an appropriate frequency in a VHF or UHF amateur radio band.
5) Point the antenna towards the Moon.
6) Connect the oscilloscope to the sound input of the transmitter so that it shows the signal being transmitted.
7) Connect the output of the transmitter/receiver to the second channel of the oscilloscope.
8 Transmit a signal in Morse code or as a series of pulses that easily show on the oscilloscope.
9) On the receiver, listen for the reflection of your signal and watch it on the oscilloscope.
10) Set the transmitter/receiver in the ‘break-in mode’ to quickly switch between transmitting and receiving.
11) Adjust the antenna direction if needed.
12) Align the two signals seen on the oscilloscope and read the time delay between them from the screen.

Using the time delay, calculate the distance d to the Moon using the following equation

d = (c x t) / 2

where

d = distance of Earth to Moon in metres
c = the speed of light, 3 x 108 metres per second
t =time delay in seconds

The radio signal covers the same distance twice (Earth to the Moon, and back), hence the need to divide by 2

For example, with a delay time of 2.56 seconds:

d = [(3 x 108) x 2.56] / 2
d = 348 000 000 m


It's really as simple as that.
Not much is known about the celestial bodies and their distances.

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 7528
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: Moon landing Technology-Adam ruins everything
« Reply #27 on: October 11, 2020, 02:42:05 AM »
Quote from: stash
It's really as simple as that.

No, I just see words of someone presenting themselves as an authority. You provide zero references or examples of amateurs doing this.

You had just previously suggested that people do it alone, and now reverse that sentiment, but are now posting your special way for how to do it alone, available only on an internet message forum and the Ages 11 - 19 material for students you copy-pasted your instructions from.
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

*

Offline stack

  • *
  • Posts: 1526
    • View Profile
Re: Moon landing Technology-Adam ruins everything
« Reply #28 on: October 11, 2020, 02:48:30 AM »
Quote from: stash
It's really as simple as that.

No, I just see words of someone presenting themselves as an authority. You provide zero references or examples of amateurs doing this.

You had just previously suggested that people do it alone, and now reverse that sentiment, but are now posting your special way for how to do it alone, available only on an internet message forum and the Ages 11 - 19 material for students you copy-pasted your instructions from.

I'm not following. Yeah, I copied the instrux from that site. Because that's how you do it and how simple it is. What about the procedure do you disagree with?
And when I said you can do it alone, I meant you don't need the internet, you just need to be  an amateur licensed HAM Radio Operator with the normal HAM equipment. Bounce the signal, record the echo duration and do the simple calculation. That's it. Really quite easy.
Not much is known about the celestial bodies and their distances.

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 7528
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: Moon landing Technology-Adam ruins everything
« Reply #29 on: October 11, 2020, 02:51:33 AM »
You haven't provided an example of anyone doing this. You provided what amounts to content written for children. You may want to read that website you copy-pasted your material from closer though. It talks about streaming the data over the internet.

    "What other sources of small errors are there in your experiment?

    Delays in streaming the signals over the internet introduces a small error in the calculated distance."

« Last Edit: October 11, 2020, 02:59:05 AM by Tom Bishop »
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

*

Offline stack

  • *
  • Posts: 1526
    • View Profile
Re: Moon landing Technology-Adam ruins everything
« Reply #30 on: October 11, 2020, 03:22:59 AM »
You haven't provided an example of anyone doing this. You provided what amounts to content written for children. You may want to read that website you copy-pasted your material from closer though. It talks about streaming the data over the internet.

    "What other sources of small errors are there in your experiment?

    Delays in streaming the signals over the internet introduces a small error in the calculated distance."



I don't really get what you're after. What form should the example be in? Do I need to show a video of someone piloting a plane from NYC to LA to show that someone can pilot a plane from NYC to LA?

Yes, it's a European Science Teachers site. So what? And yes, it says, "If the radio amateur sends the signals from the amateur radio station, the returning signals can be streamed via the internet to be viewed at your school." So what? The actual bounce and measurement doesn't NEED the internet. (Remember, HAM's have been doing this for decades, long before the "Internet"). All they are saying is that the HAM operator can send the results to your school. If you read the instrux again, a single operator can perform this, no streaming, no delays. Just log your oscilloscope results and do a little math. Done.

And Earth-Moon-Earth is not some obscure thing for HAM communications. The National Association of HAM Radio (ARRL) even has an EME contest every year to see how far HAM's can moon bounce a transmission. http://www.arrl.org/eme-contest

So what about EME do you disagree with?
Not much is known about the celestial bodies and their distances.

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 7528
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: Moon landing Technology-Adam ruins everything
« Reply #31 on: October 11, 2020, 03:30:22 AM »
Quote
I don't really get what you're after. What form should the example be in?

The example should show that people are doing this alone, and see signals from the Moon at the required delay. You have provided material for children.

Quote
Yes, it's a European Science Teachers site. So what? And yes, it says, "If the radio amateur sends the signals from the amateur radio station, the returning signals can be streamed via the internet to be viewed at your school." So what? The actual bounce and measurement doesn't NEED the internet. (Remember, HAM's have been doing this for decades, long before the "Internet"). All they are saying is that the HAM operator can send the results to your school. If you read the instrux again, a single operator can perform this, no streaming, no delays. Just log your oscilloscope results and do a little math. Done.

The internet has existed for "decades". You have no further material to provide and must insist on this material written for children that you found.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2020, 03:40:01 AM by Tom Bishop »
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

*

Offline stack

  • *
  • Posts: 1526
    • View Profile
Re: Moon landing Technology-Adam ruins everything
« Reply #32 on: October 11, 2020, 05:51:33 AM »
Quote
I don't really get what you're after. What form should the example be in?

The example should show that people are doing this alone, and see signals from the Moon at the required delay. You have provided material for children.

The instructions are so simple, if you are a licensed HAM radio operator with the equipment listed, that even a student could do it. Are school-aged kids incapable of performing experiments? Yours is a very odd argument, if you could even call it that.

Quote
Yes, it's a European Science Teachers site. So what? And yes, it says, "If the radio amateur sends the signals from the amateur radio station, the returning signals can be streamed via the internet to be viewed at your school." So what? The actual bounce and measurement doesn't NEED the internet. (Remember, HAM's have been doing this for decades, long before the "Internet"). All they are saying is that the HAM operator can send the results to your school. If you read the instrux again, a single operator can perform this, no streaming, no delays. Just log your oscilloscope results and do a little math. Done.

The internet has existed for "decades". You have no further material to provide and must insist on this material written for children that you found.

Yes, the internet has been around for decades. And HAM Earth-Moon-Earth transmissions are decades older than the internet. In fact, from an article published by The National Association of HAM Radio (ARRL):

"A team of folks at the Signal Corps Engineering Laboratories accomplished the first attempt at bouncing signals off the Moon on January 10, 1946 on a frequency of 111.5 MHz...The return echoes from the Moon were both visually and audibly recorded. 
The first amateur work at receiving one’s own echoes was accomplished back in 1953 on 144 MHz by W4AO and W3GKP... It was not until after many years of work that the first 2304 MHz EME QSO took place between W4HHK and W3GKP on October 19, 1970.
"
https://www.arrl.org/files/file/Technology/tis/info/pdf/0210028.pdf

Regarding W4HHK and W3GKP moon bounce transmission (and others), here is what their transmission looked like:



From the same article, here's what W5LUA had to say about his first attempt at an EME, "On a cold winter night in December, I was poised and ready to “bleep” at the Moon. My four 14 element Swan antennas, 500 W at the antenna and my 1.5 dB highly optimized homebrew LNA were ready. At the sight of the Moon coming across the horizon in Richardson, I sent out three dashes and upon returning to receive, I heard dah-dah-dah! I could not believe it. I did it again and again. Every time I heard my echoes. Boy, was I in heaven! "

And, btw, he was a solo operator. In other words, he transmitted and received his own signal. I don't know why you're hung up on this 'you need the internet' thing, because you don't. And this 'you can't do it alone' thing, because you can. And this 'kids can't do it' thing, because it's pretty straight forward with the right gear and license a kid could do it.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2020, 06:31:36 AM by stack »
Not much is known about the celestial bodies and their distances.

*

Offline GreatATuin

  • *
  • Posts: 279
  • It's turtles all the way down
    • View Profile
Re: Moon landing Technology-Adam ruins everything
« Reply #33 on: October 11, 2020, 07:56:05 AM »
Quote
How does NASA force France's observatories to lie and return false information on the distance to the Moon using software and consultations, assuming either happen at all?

You have answered your own question. Software is programmed by the programmers and not the operators.

Do you think researchers in an observatory are unable to get and interpret their own data? These guys know exactly what they are doing. They shoot a giant laser to a mirror on the Moon and get some of that back. They know the system they operate.

Do you have any evidence that any of Grasse's (or Matera, or Wettzell) hardware or software is provided or controlled by NASA?

Both Grasse and Matera are part of the ILRS network.

So? Grasse was operating well before the ILRS network even existed.

https://ilrs.gsfc.nasa.gov/technology/software/index.html

    "Software provides a key element in the acquisition, reduction, and analysis of laser ranging data. Since so much time and effort has already been spent on creating software applicable to laser ranging, it is preferable to have the fruits of those labors be freely available when possible. Having a ready library of software will either spare builders of new stations the work of re-inventing the wheel or to at least provide a starting point from which to build something greater."


Good, a list of open source software: that means anyone with knowledge of the programming language can check it does what it's supposed to do. Some of the links point to European sites. Using common tools makes sense for scientists that do the same things.

How could NASA possibly use that to control the output of any observatory? For this to happen, there would need to be closed-source software, directly provided by NASA, that all LLR observatories are forced to install and use. Researchers would probably refuse to use such software, and would definitely notice if the results didn't match the data from their experiments.

"NASA is involved in a global network of observatories that perform LLR" is extremely far away from "NASA has total control over anything anyone does in that network".

Sure, if you try to find an organization that does anything space-related and has no connection at all with NASA, that will probably be hard or even impossible, because that's how globalized science works. But conversely, NASA is collaborating with other organizations.

In short: NASA doesn't have total control over foreign observatories and couldn't possibly force them to publish false data. That would take a global conspiracy.
Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

you guys just read what you want to read

Re: Moon landing Technology-Adam ruins everything
« Reply #34 on: October 11, 2020, 08:12:08 AM »
Tom,

Is there something intrinsically false about instructional material aimed at individuals with an age-range including high school students, college students, married people, voters, car drivers and private pilots?

And if its target age-group also includes "children", how does that devalue its merit?
« Last Edit: October 11, 2020, 01:29:54 PM by DuncanDoenitz »

*

Offline JSS

  • *
  • Posts: 844
  • Math is math!
    • View Profile
Re: Moon landing Technology-Adam ruins everything
« Reply #35 on: October 11, 2020, 11:54:19 AM »
The radio Moon Bounce experiment is a really good method that you can easily see with your own eyes.

HAM radio operators are a friendly bunch, after all their hobby is reaching out to other people all over the world.

If anyone truly wants to prove to themselves that this works, just contact your local HAM group and ask if someone would be willing to demonstrate this for you. I expect you would get plenty of people more than happy to show off their equipment and give you a live demonstration.

This is a great and accessible experiment, and nothing beats direct personal observation. Why not give it a try?

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 7528
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: Moon landing Technology-Adam ruins everything
« Reply #36 on: October 12, 2020, 12:10:13 AM »
Yes, the internet has been around for decades. And HAM Earth-Moon-Earth transmissions are decades older than the internet. In fact, from an article published by The National Association of HAM Radio (ARRL):

"A team of folks at the Signal Corps Engineering Laboratories accomplished the first attempt at bouncing signals off the Moon on January 10, 1946 on a frequency of

You must be getting pretty desperate of you have to cite something that the military allegedly did during the cold war. I guess you really do have nothing.
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

Re: Moon landing Technology-Adam ruins everything
« Reply #37 on: October 12, 2020, 12:10:26 AM »
My friend doesnt understand why that's a bad thing... or how that hurts that argument if HAMheads  have been doing that 'since the cold war'.
___________________________________
"Earth isnt round or flat. It's fucked."
- Ricky LaFleur

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 7528
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: Moon landing Technology-Adam ruins everything
« Reply #38 on: October 12, 2020, 12:32:13 AM »
My friend doesnt understand why that's a bad thing... or how that hurts that argument if HAMheads  have been doing that 'since the cold war'.

If we believe in the quote "All warfare is deception" from the Art of War, which military commanders and generals often tout, then should not believe in a word they say. It's also why we shouldn't have blind belief in NASA.
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

Re: Moon landing Technology-Adam ruins everything
« Reply #39 on: October 12, 2020, 12:53:18 AM »
Ok, I can completely accept the potential motivation for faking space supremacy ( I firmly believe the evidence is overwhelming that they actually did what they say, but I definitely get the sentiment).

How are amateur HAM radio ops part of the space supremacy or NASA? I'm not trying to be a jerk here I'm just not understanding the connection at all
___________________________________
"Earth isnt round or flat. It's fucked."
- Ricky LaFleur