Ghost of V

Re: Xbox and Valve finally have their baby
« Reply #60 on: July 14, 2014, 07:29:19 PM »
CDs have numerous advantages over vinyl. For one, you can pop a CD into your car. You can rip a CD onto your computer. Numerous systems can read CDs. Vinyl is cumbersome, and CDs are seen as superior because they are more functional. This analogy works with consoles and PCs as well.

Developers and console makers are in it to make money, yes. The most profitable platforms right now are consoles. But how did it get that way? Because the consumer chose consoles over PCs time and time again. It's not like some mega-corp run by satanists decided "we will brainwash the consumer into buying consoles so that we can make money". It was more like "hey, let's take a risk with this console thing and see where it goes". People liked the idea. People no longer had to go to an arcade to play KoF or Street Fighter or Galaga, they could do it at home by plugging some wires into the back of their TVs. Consumers made consoles profitable. If consumers had chosen the PC over consoles back in the day, devs would be making games mostly for PC.

Technology is usually made to make our lives easier. Consoles make gaming easier; It is the superior option out of the two choices.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2014, 07:31:09 PM by Vauxhall »

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Offline Snupes

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Re: Xbox and Valve finally have their baby
« Reply #61 on: July 14, 2014, 07:34:01 PM »
Console manufacturers want to make money. They will take gaming technology in any direction that customers and the law enable them to, in order to achieve that goal. If mutually incompatible consoles sell, then customers want mutually incompatible consoles; otherwise, they wouldn't buy them.

I absolutely disagree with this argument. Not boycotting consoles doesn't mean you want mutually incompatible consoles, it means you don't feel like not getting to play the games you want to because of some PC ideal. I would love for everything to be on one platform, but I don't feel like missing out on games for that ideal. So I buy consoles.
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Offline beardo

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Re: Xbox and Valve finally have their baby
« Reply #62 on: July 14, 2014, 07:55:28 PM »
The only reason consoles are more popular than PC's is because consoles existed before you could play any games on a computer.
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Ghost of V

Re: Xbox and Valve finally have their baby
« Reply #63 on: July 14, 2014, 07:58:24 PM »
The only reason consoles are more popular than PC's is because consoles existed before you could play any games on a computer.

The Magnavox Odyssey still has better games than the entire PC gaming library to date.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2014, 08:00:31 PM by Vauxhall »

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Xbox and Valve finally have their baby
« Reply #64 on: July 14, 2014, 08:00:25 PM »
On the general notion:
Consoles were a much better option back in the 70s-80s and even in the early 90s.  Computer hardware was expensive ($1200 for a Tandy 1000 in 1983 compared to $300 for an NES) and lacking Hard Drive space, you had to run everything on a floppy disk anyway so why bother buying a very expensive computer that could run games when a much cheaper solution was available?  Especially since PC programming was extremely tight.  Drivers were a pain to code.  And a program had to fit everything on a 5.25" floppy disk.

Granted, the NES wasn't exactly a complex machine even back then.  They could be made cheaply and require only one language with one hardware set.  PC gaming couldn't compete with the cost but it made up for it with more complex games, like Adventure Games.

Sega Genesis and the SNES were also big sellers and their graphics were pretty good for the time.  And what did the PC have?  Windows 3.0 and Dos.  Granted, there are some great Dos games of that era but getting them to work required actual knowledge of how computers worked.  You had to set your video driver (EGA, VGA, SVGA) as well as audio IRQs.  AND you had to usually type in command line text to get something running.  The console gave players ease of use at an affordable price.  And with both Nintendo and Sega not porting their games to PC for profit reasons(They'd be morons if they did), this was the start of the console exclusives.  Today, consoles aren't much different than PCs.  Just with very specific hardware designed for high resolution graphical rendering.  But they still hold that place of the "traditional" gaming machine.

As for the popularity of games.  As I'm sure most of the programmers here will agree, coding for one set of hardware under one OS is much easier than coding for multiple hardware types with multiple OSes.  Heck, just putting all the graphical options in the game(turning off anti-alising, render distance, sky effects, etc...) takes time.  On a console, you don't have to care about that stuff, just make it work on the one piece of hardware it needs to work on and you're done.  Debugging is far simpler and as such development is, theoretically, cheaper.

That is all incidental, and a circular argument. The reason many games exist for consoles is that people buy consoles. If people didn't buy consoles, there would be no gain in making games for them.

Your argument therefore boils down to "consoles make sense because consoles make sense".
Not quite.  Consoles make sense because there has been a growing market for consoles for more than 30 years.
PC games didn't exist 30 years ago?
« Last Edit: July 14, 2014, 08:21:09 PM by Lord Dave »
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Offline beardo

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Re: Xbox and Valve finally have their baby
« Reply #65 on: July 14, 2014, 08:06:10 PM »
That is all incidental, and a circular argument. The reason many games exist for consoles is that people buy consoles. If people didn't buy consoles, there would be no gain in making games for them.

Your argument therefore boils down to "consoles make sense because consoles make sense".
Not quite.  Consoles make sense because there has been a growing market for consoles for more than 30 years.
PC games didn't exist 30 years ago?
barely
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Ghost of V

Re: Xbox and Valve finally have their baby
« Reply #66 on: July 14, 2014, 08:08:56 PM »
PC games didn't exist 30 years ago?

I think Frogger and Centipede were out on PC around that time, but they were ported from console.

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Offline markjo

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Re: Xbox and Valve finally have their baby
« Reply #67 on: July 14, 2014, 08:18:09 PM »
That is all incidental, and a circular argument. The reason many games exist for consoles is that people buy consoles. If people didn't buy consoles, there would be no gain in making games for them.

Your argument therefore boils down to "consoles make sense because consoles make sense".
Not quite.  Consoles make sense because there has been a growing market for consoles for more than 30 years.
PC games didn't exist 30 years ago?
Irrelevant.  Consoles actually made more sense 30 years ago because they were so much cheaper than PCs. 
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Ghost of V

Re: Xbox and Valve finally have their baby
« Reply #68 on: July 14, 2014, 08:20:12 PM »
That is all incidental, and a circular argument. The reason many games exist for consoles is that people buy consoles. If people didn't buy consoles, there would be no gain in making games for them.

Your argument therefore boils down to "consoles make sense because consoles make sense".
Not quite.  Consoles make sense because there has been a growing market for consoles for more than 30 years.
PC games didn't exist 30 years ago?
Irrelevant.  Consoles actually made more sense 30 years ago because they were so much cheaper than PCs.

Which is why they still make more sense.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Xbox and Valve finally have their baby
« Reply #69 on: July 14, 2014, 08:21:33 PM »
That is all incidental, and a circular argument. The reason many games exist for consoles is that people buy consoles. If people didn't buy consoles, there would be no gain in making games for them.

Your argument therefore boils down to "consoles make sense because consoles make sense".
Not quite.  Consoles make sense because there has been a growing market for consoles for more than 30 years.
PC games didn't exist 30 years ago?
Irrelevant.  Consoles actually made more sense 30 years ago because they were so much cheaper than PCs.

See my edit.
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Offline Particle Person

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Re: Xbox and Valve finally have their baby
« Reply #70 on: July 14, 2014, 09:22:37 PM »
Consoles make gaming easier; It is the superior option out of the two choices.

Other than being less expensive (which is still debatable because of the high cost of console games), in what ways do consoles make gaming easier?
Your mom is when your mom and you arent your mom.

Ghost of V

Re: Xbox and Valve finally have their baby
« Reply #71 on: July 14, 2014, 09:31:08 PM »
Consoles make gaming easier; It is the superior option out of the two choices.

Other than being less expensive (which is still debatable because of the high cost of console games), in what ways do consoles make gaming easier?

They are easy to set up, don't require much maintenance, and are user-friendly. Whereas PC games usually require a bit of know-how to get everything up and running smoothly. Not to mention the fact that if you want an affordable PC you would have to buy the parts yourself and assemble it yourself, which is tedious and requires a lot of knowledge on the user's part. Of course, you could pay someone to do it but that requires more monetary investment. Consoles work out of box as advertised with very little surprises. Also, handheld gaming makes gaming easier solely because you can travel and game at the same time, something that is impossible with a PC.

The shear amount of games for consoles also makes it easier for the consumer to find a game that they enjoy. Most of this has been covered in my previous posts. I feel like PC gaming has become a niche hobby at this point.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2014, 09:33:16 PM by Vauxhall »

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Offline Particle Person

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Re: Xbox and Valve finally have their baby
« Reply #72 on: July 14, 2014, 09:47:08 PM »
Consoles make gaming easier; It is the superior option out of the two choices.

Other than being less expensive (which is still debatable because of the high cost of console games), in what ways do consoles make gaming easier?

They are easy to set up, don't require much maintenance, and are user-friendly. Whereas PC games usually require a bit of know-how to get everything up and running smoothly. Not to mention the fact that if you want an affordable PC you would have to buy the parts yourself and assemble it yourself, which is tedious and requires a lot of knowledge on the user's part. Of course, you could pay someone to do it but that requires more monetary investment. Consoles work out of box as advertised with very little surprises. Also, handheld gaming makes gaming easier solely because you can travel and game at the same time, something that is impossible with a PC.

The shear amount of games for consoles also makes it easier for the consumer to find a game that they enjoy. Most of this has been covered in my previous posts. I feel like PC gaming has become a niche hobby at this point.

I've never understood this argument. What "know-how" is required to run a game in Windows? Also, there are obviously far more games available for PC. This is mostly because developing and distributing a PC game can be done by anybody without having to deal with Sony, Microsoft, or Nintendo.
Your mom is when your mom and you arent your mom.

Ghost of V

Re: Xbox and Valve finally have their baby
« Reply #73 on: July 14, 2014, 09:56:53 PM »
I've never understood this argument. What "know-how" is required to run a game in Windows? Also, there are obviously far more games available for PC. This is mostly because developing and distributing a PC game can be done by anybody without having to deal with Sony, Microsoft, or Nintendo.

Of course there are many games for PC. Anyone can develop their own trash game and attempt to sell it. What I'm saying is that there are more high-quality titles people want to buy on consoles as opposed to PC. The average console gamer doesn't know how to replace missing DLL files or install obscure drivers to make their games work.

Are you saying that you have never once encountered an error when trying to run a PC game?

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Xbox and Valve finally have their baby
« Reply #74 on: July 14, 2014, 09:59:01 PM »
Consoles make gaming easier; It is the superior option out of the two choices.

Other than being less expensive (which is still debatable because of the high cost of console games), in what ways do consoles make gaming easier?

They are easy to set up, don't require much maintenance, and are user-friendly. Whereas PC games usually require a bit of know-how to get everything up and running smoothly. Not to mention the fact that if you want an affordable PC you would have to buy the parts yourself and assemble it yourself, which is tedious and requires a lot of knowledge on the user's part. Of course, you could pay someone to do it but that requires more monetary investment. Consoles work out of box as advertised with very little surprises. Also, handheld gaming makes gaming easier solely because you can travel and game at the same time, something that is impossible with a PC.

The shear amount of games for consoles also makes it easier for the consumer to find a game that they enjoy. Most of this has been covered in my previous posts. I feel like PC gaming has become a niche hobby at this point.

I've never understood this argument. What "know-how" is required to run a game in Windows? Also, there are obviously far more games available for PC. This is mostly because developing and distributing a PC game can be done by anybody without having to deal with Sony, Microsoft, or Nintendo.
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Offline Particle Person

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Re: Xbox and Valve finally have their baby
« Reply #75 on: July 14, 2014, 10:03:17 PM »
I usually only have problems if I'm heavily modding a game, which is to be expected. I've never heard of a situation where DLL files were missing from an installation package for no reason. Why would you need "obscure drivers" for anything? Why not just the latest drivers?
Your mom is when your mom and you arent your mom.

Ghost of V

Re: Xbox and Valve finally have their baby
« Reply #76 on: July 14, 2014, 10:04:01 PM »
I usually only have problems if I'm heavily modding a game, which is to be expected. I've never heard of a situation where DLL files were missing from an installation package for no reason. Why would you need "obscure drivers" for anything? Why not just the latest drivers?

Some older PC games are not compatible with newer drivers. Also, I've had numerous DLL files missing but normally only when I'm pirating something.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2014, 10:08:41 PM by Vauxhall »

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Offline Particle Person

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Re: Xbox and Valve finally have their baby
« Reply #77 on: July 14, 2014, 10:07:57 PM »
I've never had that problem, and I run a lot of very old games. I think we can reasonably assume that our hypothetical casual PC gamer has no need to worry.
Your mom is when your mom and you arent your mom.

Ghost of V

Re: Xbox and Valve finally have their baby
« Reply #78 on: July 14, 2014, 10:09:17 PM »
I've never had that problem, and I run a lot of very old games. I think we can reasonably assume that our hypothetical casual PC gamer has no need to worry.

Once he has his rig set up with the right parts and drivers, sure.

Another plus for consoles is that you don't need to upgrade your console every few years to keep up with the games that are coming out. Every 10 years you might have to buy a new console, but you don't have to worry about whether or not your rig can handle a specific game.

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Offline Particle Person

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Re: Xbox and Valve finally have their baby
« Reply #79 on: July 14, 2014, 10:15:28 PM »
The result being that your games look much worse.
Your mom is when your mom and you arent your mom.