[Laevinn]

Hello guys, I'm sorry my english is bad.

I'm new here and just curious about this theory, I just wanna learn more.

So here is the problem

https://www.noelshack.com/2020-34-4-1597944914-plate1.png

In this Flat Earth map, we can see that Sydney and Santiago (in Chile) are in the extreme opposites. So a very very long distance.

If this map is true (the flat earth map),

Why it exist flight beween Sydney and Santiago ? Direct ? In only 11 hours ?

Proof : https://www.kayak.fr/flights/SYD-SCL/2021-01-25-flexible?sort=bestflight_a

It's impossible if map actualy look like the flat version. Because 11 hours flight is not like cross all the world, but cross only one continent.

11 hours flight is possible in the Globe model, by crossing the indian ocean :

https://www.noelshack.com/2020-34-4-1597945238-like-that.jpg

There is also some flight Sydney - Santiago with stopover in New Zealand, this confirms that the path taken is that of the Indian Ocean in the model of the globe, this corresponds.

I hope this topic is clear for you (If it's not, tell me  ) , and I hope you will explain me where is the problem in this situation. Hoserwise it's mean that... Earth is realy a globe...

[Tom Bishop]

Some discussed possibilities are generally that the Bi-Polar model is true or that the airliners are taking advantage of anomalous winds in the South:

https://wiki.tfes.org/Issues_in_Flight_Analysis

Anomalous Winds over the Southern Oceans

Winds over the Southern Oceans are reputed to be of an anomalous nature, as compared to winds in the North.

Australian Antarctic Division

http://www.antarctica.gov.au/magazine/2001-2005/issue-4-spring-2002/feature2/what-is-the-southern-ocean

  “ The Southern Ocean is notorious for having some of the strongest winds and largest waves on the planet. ”

BBC Earth

http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20151009-where-is-the-windiest-place-on-earth

  “ There are huge belts of wind caused by the uneven way the Sun heats the Earth's surface. 30° north and south of the equator, the trade winds blow steadily. At 40° lie the prevailing westerlies, and the polar easterlies begin at around 60°.

Ask any round-the-world sailor and they will quickly tell you the stormiest seas, stirred by the strongest winds, are found in the Southern Ocean. These infamously rough latitudes are labelled the "roaring 40s", "furious 50s" and "screaming 60s". ”

Journal of Geophysical Research

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2003JD004179

  “ The Southern Ocean is a vital element in the global climate. Its circumpolar current plays a crucial role in the global transport of mass, heat, momentum, and climate signals from one ocean basin to another. Moreover, the Southern Ocean hosts the strongest surface winds of any open ocean area, fostering strong heat, moisture, and momentum exchanges between the ocean and atmosphere. However, the Southern Ocean is tremendously undersurveyed by traditional observation methods because of the remoteness of the area and rough environment, causing the largest data gap of global oceans. ”

CIA World Factbook

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/print_oo.html

  “ the ocean area from about latitude 40 south to the Antarctic Circle has the strongest average winds found anywhere on Earth ”

The SH flights seem to disappear from radar in interactive flight maps, but Jeran noticed an anomaly on an interactive flight map showing that the true air speed was much faster than the ground speed on a SH long haul flight, on areas where the data appeared.

See around the 1h32m mark of the following video:

https://youtu.be/O6tPdNKPmek?t=5502

[Iceman]

Tom,

Those are some excellent quotes from some great sources the Australian, British, and US Antarctic surveys have many additional fantastic resources to choose from as well. Journal of Geophysical research is a fantastic journal, that supports Open Access publication, so the full texts of lots of peer-reviewed articles available for free download. Awesome stuff!

The thing you didnt mention for OP though is that the causes of those winds are very well understood, owing to Hadley Cell development due to the Coriolis effect, and because below about 55 degrees south, a southern circumpolar current exists because there is no land to obstruct the flow of shallow or deep ocean waters. These currents alone would create difficult weather conditions, but they're enhanced further due to upwelling along Antarctica's coast, and from katabatic winds driven outward from the interior cold regions of the Antarxtic ice sheet.

Despite these, commercial airliners dont have too many problems completing long flights like NZ to Chile or Argentina to South Africa, or south Africa to Australia. And return flights take approximately the same length of time, plus or minus a bit due to the winds, just as any standard flight does.

Cheers

[Tom Bishop]

Thanks for contributing. Unfortunately such statements, without anything further, are generally not given much credence. We value evidence, not random statements of authority.

[AATW]

Some discussed possibilities are generally that the Bi-Polar model is true or that the airliners are taking advantage of anomalous winds in the South

There is another possibility which you don't seem to have discussed...
Your beloved Occam's Razor would suggest it's probably the correct one.

I'm interested that your attitude when presented with RE evidence is never "maybe I'm wrong about FE", but "How can we explain this away in the context of FE". Where that fails you simply call the RE evidence fake.

The distance between lines of longitude continuing to increase in your version of a southern hemisphere is a real problem in your model.
I'd suggest putting more effort into making a FE map which actually works should be an area of focus for you guys.

[iamcpc]

Those are some excellent quotes from some great sources the Australian, British, and US Antarctic surveys have many additional fantastic resources to choose from as well. Journal of Geophysical research is a fantastic journal, that supports Open Access publication, so the full texts of lots of peer-reviewed articles available for free download. Awesome stuff!

Iceman,

At this point this topic has been discussed hundreds and hundreds of times. It was my very first post here.  so much so that I can just copy and paste this for you from a dozen other times that i've put this data. Each time there is another answer. There is a list of dozens of possible answers to your question.




The idea that known flight times, flight paths, and flight distances weaken the various different FE models is something that has been discussed dozens, if not hundreds of times. Here is a large array of responses:



https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=16219.msg217416#msg217416
Sometimes flight paths support one FE model and sometimes they support another FE model or even the RE model when flying from point A to point B



https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=74707.msg2046469#msg2046469

 "This flight has never been existed."


https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=74707.msg2044714#msg2044714
"Don't trust  aircraft companies such as Qantas and Latam by their claims about flight times. These are liars."


https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=74707.msg2045126#msg2045126
"If you find a video show full flight of a travel between Chile and Australia, then there will be a possiblity that path it exist."
-These flights only exist if you can produce a full video of the entire flight.



https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=74707.msg2045413#msg2045413
-flying from Santiago, Chile to Sydney Australia in about 14 hours is impossible


https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6633.msg121615#msg121615
-Because the angles of a triangle drawn between three flight paths = 180 degrees the earth is flat.
-Because the angles of a triangle drawn between three flight paths = 179.99984 degrees the earth is slightly concave.



https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6633.msg121996#msg121996
-Distances between two cities which are far apart is unknown


https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6633.msg122030#msg122030
https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6633.msg122441#msg122441
-Flight GPS systems are inaccurate


https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6633.msg122359#msg122359
-GPS systems are based on a round earth therefore will give measurements/distances which support a round earth.
-Aircraft are using instruments which assume round earth coordinates which will support a round earth.
-There is no flat earth map.
-The difference in flight time is based off of flight speed which has yet to be proven.
-The airplane speed and range is based off round systems therefore will give speeds and ranges which support a round earth


https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6633.msg122364#msg122364
-plane speed measurements are unreliable

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6633.msg122369#msg122369
-there are no flat earth flight programs, systems, GPS etc because the flat earth aircraft navigation fund is nonexistent.


https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6633.msg122410#msg122410
-Triangulation as a measurement of distance can be inaccurate because the "known" locations used for triangulation are based on a round earth system


https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6633.msg122411#msg122411
-there are almost an infinite number of continental configurations (If a flight disproves flat earth continental configuration 23985729387592873 you then need to test continental configuration 23985729387592874).
-Groundspeed measurement instruments use a round earth coordinate system therefore will give results which support a round earth


https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6633.msg122423#msg122423
-proof is needed that mile measurements on a highway are accurate

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6633.msg122433#msg122433
-Google maps is based on a round earth coordinate system

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6633.msg122655#msg122655
-any navigation system based on longitude and latitude is a round earth navigation system (which is most likely used in all navigation systems)

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6633.msg122664#msg122664
-any map, navigation, or measurement system which uses Latitude and Longitude in any way is inaccurate

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6633.msg122672#msg122672
-That's not the map of the earth (a variant of there is no map of the earth)

[Iceman]

Wow, I really didnt think I made many claims in my response, but alright. Apparently there is severe skepticism of the utility/accuracy of GPS, passengers on airplanes, circumpolar ocean currents, and the fact that wind is just gas moving from ares of high pressure to low pressure.


I'll just leave this one alone...

[Laevinn]

For those who say the argument "This flight does not exist", you have to be better than this, It sounds like an admission of defeat

There is a random guys who filmed his flight Santiago - Sydney

Here :



If you tell me this video is fake and this random guy (I think there is others we can find on YouTube) are actors, maybe you are paranoiac.

[iamcpc]

For those who say the argument "This flight does not exist", you have to be better than this, It sounds like an admission of defeat

There is a random guys who filmed his flight Santiago - Sydney

Here :



If you tell me this video is fake and this random guy (I think there is others we can find on YouTube) are actors, maybe you are paranoiac.

The problem with this is that the claim is that those flights take between 14-15 hours (give or take) and that video is like 50 minutes. There is no way to tell if that is all the same flight or multiple different flights. etc. etc. It's not saying that video is fake it's saying there's no way to tell if that video is real.

[DuncanDoenitz]

Yes, its a 50 minute video of a 15 hour flight so it could be a fake. 

If a passenger made a 15 hour video of the 15 hour flight, at some point he is going to use the bathroom.  Ah haaah!.  Lack of continuity!  Could be a fake!  And who in their right mind is going to sit through a 15 hour video of a seat-back anyway? 

The fact is, as iamcpc is well aware, this was discussed in depth at another thread; 

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=15877.100

which demonstrated that just like other long-haul, these flights are taking place several times a week, with passengers on, departing and arriving at more-or-less the scheduled times, in both directions, without diversions or in-flight refuelling, and without having to wait for a freaky wind. 

[JSS]

For those who say the argument "This flight does not exist", you have to be better than this, It sounds like an admission of defeat

There is a random guys who filmed his flight Santiago - Sydney

Here :



If you tell me this video is fake and this random guy (I think there is others we can find on YouTube) are actors, maybe you are paranoiac.

The problem with this is that the claim is that those flights take between 14-15 hours (give or take) and that video is like 50 minutes. There is no way to tell if that is all the same flight or multiple different flights. etc. etc. It's not saying that video is fake it's saying there's no way to tell if that video is real.

The problem with discounting evidence because it "could" be fake is that you can now discount all evidence for the same reason.

A 15 hour flight could still be faked. It could be spliced together from multiple flights, it could be staged on a rented plane that never takes off, the entire thing could be CGI. Even if every single person on that flight posted a full 15 hour video, it still could all be fake. It's possible. You can't know for certain if ANYTHING is real.

So saying evidence "could" be fake is not a valid counter argument, since everything can be faked and that means no evidence is valid, not even things you see with your own eyes. A debate where no evidence allowed is not a debate at all.

Now if there is actual evidence of a specific video being fake, that's valid to argue. But a generic "It could be fake" argument is never ending. No matter how much more evidence you provide, it can always be called fake and dismissed.

[DuncanDoenitz]

Some discussed possibilities are generally that the Bi-Polar model is true or that the airliners are taking advantage of anomalous winds in the South:

https://wiki.tfes.org/Issues_in_Flight_Analysis

Anomalous Winds over the Southern Oceans

Winds over the Southern Oceans are reputed to be of an anomalous nature, as compared to winds in the North.

Australian Antarctic Division

http://www.antarctica.gov.au/magazine/2001-2005/issue-4-spring-2002/feature2/what-is-the-southern-ocean

  “ The Southern Ocean is notorious for having some of the strongest winds and largest waves on the planet. ”

BBC Earth

http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20151009-where-is-the-windiest-place-on-earth

  “ There are huge belts of wind caused by the uneven way the Sun heats the Earth's surface. 30° north and south of the equator, the trade winds blow steadily. At 40° lie the prevailing westerlies, and the polar easterlies begin at around 60°.

Ask any round-the-world sailor and they will quickly tell you the stormiest seas, stirred by the strongest winds, are found in the Southern Ocean. These infamously rough latitudes are labelled the "roaring 40s", "furious 50s" and "screaming 60s". ”

Journal of Geophysical Research

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2003JD004179

  “ The Southern Ocean is a vital element in the global climate. Its circumpolar current plays a crucial role in the global transport of mass, heat, momentum, and climate signals from one ocean basin to another. Moreover, the Southern Ocean hosts the strongest surface winds of any open ocean area, fostering strong heat, moisture, and momentum exchanges between the ocean and atmosphere. However, the Southern Ocean is tremendously undersurveyed by traditional observation methods because of the remoteness of the area and rough environment, causing the largest data gap of global oceans. ”

CIA World Factbook

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/print_oo.html

  “ the ocean area from about latitude 40 south to the Antarctic Circle has the strongest average winds found anywhere on Earth ”

The SH flights seem to disappear from radar in interactive flight maps, but Jeran noticed an anomaly on an interactive flight map showing that the true air speed was much faster than the ground speed on a SH long haul flight, on areas where the data appeared.

See around the 1h32m mark of the following video:

https://youtu.be/O6tPdNKPmek?t=5502

Yes Tom, the speeds fluctuate.  And did you watch the altitude?  Up and down by 20,000 feet within seconds. 

I was watching Sky News last week while they interviewed someone from home (in the current Corvid-19 situation) by Skype or Zoom.  At one point his face froze, but you could still hear him speaking!  Do we suspect a sinister conspiracy?  Greenscreen?  No; we just assume loss of data. 

I know its the 21st Century and all that, but if they can't maintain a coherent conversation for 4 minutes beween the Sky studio and somebody's dining room in Croydon, is it surprising if the same thing happens occasionally with 15 hours of data from 40,000 feet above the Southern Ocean?