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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Black Lives Matter
« Reply #80 on: June 30, 2020, 11:26:33 AM »
To add on to Tim’s point about the continuation of racism, the economic conditions that many systemically oppressed black people found themselves in are inherited today as well.
Thomas Sowell proves your stated position is devoid of substance.

Lifestyle choice is not systemic.

How did he prove it?

Re: Black Lives Matter
« Reply #81 on: June 30, 2020, 11:44:12 AM »
To add on to Tim’s point about the continuation of racism, the economic conditions that many systemically oppressed black people found themselves in are inherited today as well.
Thomas Sowell proves your stated position is devoid of substance.

Lifestyle choice is not systemic.

How did he prove it?
By examination of the total picture within your preferred method of introducing a number of other factors dealing with  lifestyle choices.
I didn't say (conversion of) thermal energy wasn't involved at all.
A rocket does not create thrust by converting thermal energy.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Black Lives Matter
« Reply #82 on: June 30, 2020, 12:29:21 PM »
By examination of the total picture within your preferred method of introducing a number of other factors dealing with  lifestyle choices.

Have a link to his work?

Re: Black Lives Matter
« Reply #83 on: June 30, 2020, 12:37:20 PM »
By examination of the total picture within your preferred method of introducing a number of other factors dealing with  lifestyle choices.

Have a link to his work?
Nearly all of his works and his accomplishments can be found detailed on the Wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Sowell
I didn't say (conversion of) thermal energy wasn't involved at all.
A rocket does not create thrust by converting thermal energy.

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Offline timterroo

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Re: Black Lives Matter
« Reply #84 on: June 30, 2020, 03:30:01 PM »
To add on to Tim’s point about the continuation of racism, the economic conditions that many systemically oppressed black people found themselves in are inherited today as well.
Thomas Sowell proves your stated position is devoid of substance.

Lifestyle choice is not systemic.

You are correct, but we are not talking about "lifestyle choices". Because of Jim Crow laws, it wasn't their choice to live in impoverished locations, with low resources. It wasn't their choice to be forced to accepting low-paying, low-class jobs. It wasn't their choice that dealing drugs and prostitution was the most sustainable way to live - yes it was their choice to participate, but it was not their choice that it was the most profitable way to survive.

In fact, if you study inner-city marginalization, you find that many drug dealers attempted to get out of that business and "go legit". Struggling to survive on a legit income is much harder if you are black, poor, and marginalized. <- none of those things are anyone's choice.

So, I'm not sure why you call these "lifestyle choices" because nobody chooses their skin color, nobody chooses where there they are born, and nobody chooses what socio-economic class they are born into.

All Rama is saying is that a lot of this is still true today - Jim Crow laws disappeared, but that didn't automatically make anyone's lives better, or matter more.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2020, 03:44:20 PM by timterroo »
"noche te ipsum"

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."  - Albert Einstein

Re: Black Lives Matter
« Reply #85 on: June 30, 2020, 03:35:50 PM »
To add on to Tim’s point about the continuation of racism, the economic conditions that many systemically oppressed black people found themselves in are inherited today as well.
Thomas Sowell proves your stated position is devoid of substance.

Lifestyle choice is not systemic.

You are correct, and I would agree with you except for the fact that it wasn't their choice to live in impoverished locations, with low resources.
Yes, it is.

There are no laws keeping people from living where they want.
It wasn't their choice to be forced to accepting low-paying, low-class jobs.
Yes, it is.

There are no laws prohibiting people from applying for any job they want.
It wasn't their choice that dealing drugs and prostitution was the most sustainable way to live - yes it was their choice to participate, but it was not their choice that it was the most profitable way to survive.
Dealing drugs and engaging in prostitution is certainly a lifestyle choice.

Where did I claim that cost of items is a lifestyle choice?
In fact, if you study inner-city marginalization, you find that many drug dealers attempted to get out of that business and "go legit". Struggling to survive on a legit income is much harder if you are black, poor, and marginalized. <- none of those things are anyone's choice.
Horseshit.

Absolutely no economic data to support this at all.
So, I'm not sure why you call these "lifestyle choices" because nobody chooses their skin color, nobody chooses there they are born, and nobody chooses what socio-economic class they are in from birth.
Your entire post is simply a fake mantra.

Read Thomas Sowell and take it up with him.

I'll take the word of a black professor over yours any day of the week.

Yeah, that was a racist thing to write, so sue me.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2020, 03:45:31 PM by totallackey »
I didn't say (conversion of) thermal energy wasn't involved at all.
A rocket does not create thrust by converting thermal energy.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Black Lives Matter
« Reply #86 on: June 30, 2020, 04:08:43 PM »

Yes, it is.

There are no laws keeping people from living where they want.


Quote
Yes, it is.

There are no laws prohibiting people from applying for any job they want.

Laws aren't the only factor that limit people's choices.  For example, even if it were legal for me, I couldn't move to the upper east side of Manhattan because I don't have the necessary resources to do so. 

Thanks for the link to Sowell, I will have a look. Is there a particular work that you think addresses the immediate subject matter we are discussing?
« Last Edit: June 30, 2020, 04:15:06 PM by Rama Set »

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Offline timterroo

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Re: Black Lives Matter
« Reply #87 on: June 30, 2020, 04:27:37 PM »
Your entire post is simply a fake mantra.

Read Thomas Sowell and take it up with him.

I'll take the word of a black professor over yours any day of the week.

Yeah, that was a racist thing to write, so sue me.

This isn't my word.

Most of what I've said comes from the words of a man who lived with crack dealers in New York City for several years journaling his entire experience and interviewing them first-hand in order to write a book about it.

Edit:

The book is called "In Search of Respect" - Philippe Bourgois
« Last Edit: June 30, 2020, 05:03:20 PM by timterroo »
"noche te ipsum"

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."  - Albert Einstein

Re: Black Lives Matter
« Reply #88 on: June 30, 2020, 07:05:44 PM »
You are correct, and I would agree with you except for the fact that it wasn't their choice to live in impoverished locations, with low resources.
Yes, it is.
To be honest, I thought that was a Thork post, it's a very Thork thing to say.
It's not a choice when you don't have the money or resources to make any other choices.
And the reason black families tend not to have those resources is because of historic racist laws which prevented black families a couple of generations back from owning properties. White families were able to and that wealth has trickled down the generations in a way it hasn't for black families.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Offline ChrisTP

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Re: Black Lives Matter
« Reply #89 on: June 30, 2020, 07:35:29 PM »
To add on to Tim’s point about the continuation of racism, the economic conditions that many systemically oppressed black people found themselves in are inherited today as well.
Thomas Sowell proves your stated position is devoid of substance.

Lifestyle choice is not systemic.

You are correct, and I would agree with you except for the fact that it wasn't their choice to live in impoverished locations, with low resources.
Yes, it is.

There are no laws keeping people from living where they want.
It wasn't their choice to be forced to accepting low-paying, low-class jobs.
Yes, it is.

There are no laws prohibiting people from applying for any job they want.
It wasn't their choice that dealing drugs and prostitution was the most sustainable way to live - yes it was their choice to participate, but it was not their choice that it was the most profitable way to survive.
Dealing drugs and engaging in prostitution is certainly a lifestyle choice.

Where did I claim that cost of items is a lifestyle choice?
In fact, if you study inner-city marginalization, you find that many drug dealers attempted to get out of that business and "go legit". Struggling to survive on a legit income is much harder if you are black, poor, and marginalized. <- none of those things are anyone's choice.
Horseshit.

Absolutely no economic data to support this at all.
So, I'm not sure why you call these "lifestyle choices" because nobody chooses their skin color, nobody chooses there they are born, and nobody chooses what socio-economic class they are in from birth.
Your entire post is simply a fake mantra.

Read Thomas Sowell and take it up with him.

I'll take the word of a black professor over yours any day of the week.

Yeah, that was a racist thing to write, so sue me.
I get what you're saying regarding the laws not stopping anyone from doing what they want to do. It's not the law that's preventing holding them back. Poor towns, poor cities, poor countries even, they don't choose to be poor. With poverty comes limited options of survival so if I'm struggling to feed my children and I were desperate enough to go out and steal some bikes or something to put food on the table why not? and this mindset and lifestyle is handed down. If you live in that kind of society all your life you're more likely to keep living that way. In a sense you could say that the only thing holding people back now is themselves and that would be true if it weren't also for the general racism they receive too. It's a complicated subject and not just black and white obviously, but it's not just the law keeping people living like that. People that are wealthy already are likely to have wealthy kids. that grow up making more money and staying wealthy. When you have that wealth to begin with you are in a far better position to stay wealthy. This isn't really something anyone can deny and to be fair, no one would complain about it if they were the ones living on the wealthy side of life.

Since the law isn't stopping you Totallackey, why aren't you a millionaire living a totally legit/lawful lifestyle? Did you choose not to be rich?
Tom is wrong most of the time. Hardly big news, don't you think?

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Offline Toddler Thork

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Re: Black Lives Matter
« Reply #90 on: June 30, 2020, 08:53:38 PM »
To be honest, I thought that was a Thork post, it's a very Thork thing to say.
I haven't posted in this thread for ages. I lit the touch paper and walked away from this dumpster fire ages ago.

White families were able to and that wealth has trickled down the generations in a way it hasn't for black families.
Are you a trust fund kid or something? No one gave me anything. White people aren't inheriting a fortune on their 18th birthday. Where do you get this nonsense? Most white people EARN a living. They don't get bursaries or grants for being BAME. They just get on with working hard. It is why they are called the working class.
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Offline timterroo

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Re: Black Lives Matter
« Reply #91 on: June 30, 2020, 09:02:14 PM »
To be honest, I thought that was a Thork post, it's a very Thork thing to say.
I haven't posted in this thread for ages. I lit the touch paper and walked away from this dumpster fire ages ago.

White families were able to and that wealth has trickled down the generations in a way it hasn't for black families.
Are you a trust fund kid or something? No one gave me anything. White people aren't inheriting a fortune on their 18th birthday. Where do you get this nonsense? Most white people EARN a living. They don't get bursaries or grants for being BAME. They just get on with working hard. It is why they are called the working class.

There's a difference between *** INHERITING MILLIONS!!!! *** and being privileged enough to have land that your ancestors were able to acquire, or inability to acquire (if you're black) which had everything to do with the Jim Crow laws and racism of our history. This is the wealth (I believe) AATW is speaking of.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2020, 09:11:54 PM by timterroo »
"noche te ipsum"

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."  - Albert Einstein

Re: Black Lives Matter
« Reply #92 on: June 30, 2020, 09:38:23 PM »
Are you a trust fund kid or something?
I wouldn't go that far.
But I grew up in a stable home where while we didn't have a yacht or anything we were well off enough.
We didn't want for anything. We owned our own home, had nice holidays, could afford theatre trips and other cultural experiences.
My way was paid through university, dad set up some investments for me which helped pay the deposit on my first place. I'll inherit a fair bit of money which if invested wisely will mean I'm able to help my kids.
Things haven't been handed to me on a silver platter. I've done OK in my career, I earn above average and that is due to me working hard in my degree and career. No-one is paying my mortgage for me, I do that. But the stable and relatively affluent background I describe have absolutely given me a leg up in life. Not in the same way that Boris Johnon has - I didn't go to Eton, I'll never have the advantages which moving in those circles buys you. But having a stable, reasonably affluent family makes your life easier. And it's not to do with me being white, I firmly believe that were I from a black family that was as stable and affluent as mine was that I would have had the same advantages. The issue in the US is for historic reasons black families are rarely affluent. That doesn't mean that black kids don't have many of the same opportunities in theory, but it does make it harder for them to take those opportunities.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

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Offline Toddler Thork

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Re: Black Lives Matter
« Reply #93 on: July 02, 2020, 07:23:29 PM »
In the news today ... you'll enjoy this link.

David Starky is one of the most high profile historians in the United Kingdom. His comments are hilarious.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-53262668
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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Black Lives Matter
« Reply #94 on: July 02, 2020, 08:41:32 PM »
I mean, I agree that slavery wasn’t genocide. Kind of an oxymoron. The way he phrased it was pretty shit.

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Offline Roundy

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Re: Black Lives Matter
« Reply #95 on: July 02, 2020, 09:48:06 PM »
In the news today ... you'll enjoy this link.

David Starky is one of the most high profile historians in the United Kingdom. His comments are hilarious.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-53262668

Who exactly was he responding to, that characterized slavery as genocide?

To me it sounds like someone else on the right treating a minority opinion on the left as something that the majority treats seriously, even though they probably don't, and doing so in a profoundly racist way. No wonder you have such a hard-on for him.

And yes I did enjoy that! Thanks.
Electro-Theologist, Poet, Philosopher, Musician, Etymologist, Egyptologist, Astro-Theologist, Geocentrist, Flat Earther, and Collector of Rare Books.