Re: Asteroid and planetoid collisions and ther orbit?
« Reply #40 on: May 07, 2020, 11:51:35 AM »
ChrisTP, Bible verses are the only solid evidence for anything, because the word of God is truth.

Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. John 17:17

And we should all be worshipping Jesus Christ who is God, all of the time, because He is the only truth.

Code-Beta is talking about the stars, moon, and sun, as if they were gigantic, and far, far away. The truth is in the word of God. All of these experiments, and all of this information people think they know are nothing but lies leading them to hell. Read Romans 10:9, do what it says, and remain in that salvation forever, that is Jesus Christ.

Offline ChrisTP

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Re: Asteroid and planetoid collisions and ther orbit?
« Reply #41 on: May 07, 2020, 01:14:06 PM »
ChrisTP, Bible verses are the only solid evidence for anything, because the word of God is truth.

Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. John 17:17

And we should all be worshipping Jesus Christ who is God, all of the time, because He is the only truth.

Code-Beta is talking about the stars, moon, and sun, as if they were gigantic, and far, far away. The truth is in the word of God. All of these experiments, and all of this information people think they know are nothing but lies leading them to hell. Read Romans 10:9, do what it says, and remain in that salvation forever, that is Jesus Christ.
You can believe in whatever religion you want and I won't judge you for that, but this thread really has nothing to do with that. I'm no moderator it bugs me when religious folk jump into these threads with this kinda stuff, derailing the topic.
Tom is wrong most of the time. Hardly big news, don't you think?

Re: Asteroid and planetoid collisions and ther orbit?
« Reply #42 on: May 07, 2020, 02:09:33 PM »
ChrisTP, Bible verses are the only solid evidence for anything, because the word of God is truth.
But not necessarily scientific truth.

"The Bible shows the way to go to heaven, not the way the heavens go" - Galileo
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Asteroid and planetoid collisions and ther orbit?
« Reply #43 on: May 07, 2020, 07:19:34 PM »
But not necessarily scientific truth.

"The Bible shows the way to go to heaven, not the way the heavens go" - Galileo

That's not what American Scientist has to say about Galileo's thoughts of scriptural support for astronomical beliefs:

Quote from: American Scientist
Galileo set out his own views of Scripture and science, offering an ingenious interpretation of Joshua’s making the Sun stand still to show that not only does Holy Scripture not oppose Copernican theory, it actually supports it.

Also:

Quote from: American Scientist
much of Galileo’s own work is defective
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

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Offline JSS

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Re: Asteroid and planetoid collisions and ther orbit?
« Reply #44 on: May 07, 2020, 07:44:27 PM »
But not necessarily scientific truth.

"The Bible shows the way to go to heaven, not the way the heavens go" - Galileo

That's not what American Scientist has to say about Galileo's thoughts of scriptural support for astronomical beliefs:

Quote from: American Scientist
Galileo set out his own views of Scripture and science, offering an ingenious interpretation of Joshua’s making the Sun stand still to show that not only does Holy Scripture not oppose Copernican theory, it actually supports it.

Your quote was from 1613 when he was trying to fit his discoveries into the Bible, and the quote above from "Letter to Christina" was after he had given up (partially due to the Church's threats) but also as he decided that the Bible was not meant to be taken literally, that it was a spiritual instruction guide, not literal view of how the universe works.

Either way, the Bible (whichever version you choose to believe) has little to do with the math of comets and Jupiters orbits and can't be used to support or refute those calculations.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Asteroid and planetoid collisions and ther orbit?
« Reply #45 on: May 07, 2020, 10:26:56 PM »
Galileo: The Bible supports heliocentrism!

Also Galileo: The Bible doesn't tell us how astronomy works.

I see. Not really the best source there. Galileo seems to only accept the Bible's support of astronomy when it supports his view.
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

Offline BRrollin

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Re: Asteroid and planetoid collisions and ther orbit?
« Reply #46 on: May 08, 2020, 12:14:01 AM »
Galileo: The Bible supports heliocentrism!

Also Galileo: The Bible doesn't tell us how astronomy works.

I see. Not really the best source there. Galileo seems to only accept the Bible's support of astronomy when it supports his view.

Yeah I’d doubt anything Galileo said about Christianity as genuine, given the religious zealotry of the time and the pressures involved. He seemed like a smart enough guy to say what folks wanted to hear, at least part of the time.
“This just shows that you don't even understand the basic principle of UA...A projectile that goes up and then down again to an observer on Earth is not accelerating, it is the observer on Earth who accelerates.”

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“I hang out with sane people.”

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Re: Asteroid and planetoid collisions and ther orbit?
« Reply #47 on: May 08, 2020, 10:16:38 AM »
But not necessarily scientific truth.

"The Bible shows the way to go to heaven, not the way the heavens go" - Galileo

That's not what American Scientist has to say about Galileo's thoughts of scriptural support for astronomical beliefs:

Quote from: American Scientist
Galileo set out his own views of Scripture and science, offering an ingenious interpretation of Joshua’s making the Sun stand still to show that not only does Holy Scripture not oppose Copernican theory, it actually supports it.

Also:

Quote from: American Scientist
much of Galileo’s own work is defective

Tom, in Joshua 10:12,13, you either believe "Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon" and "And the sun stood still" and "So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day", or you do not. It is written very plainly for you to see. I don't care what anybody said in the past, or in the future, about what their interpretation of that is, because you are talking about elementary, simple right/wrong logic. Those two verses, simply, clearly, mean the sun and the moon are physically moving above us. They mean the sun clearly was already starting to go down, as Gibeon is slightly to the northwest of Jerusalem, meaning that it is west of the longitude line of Jerusalem, one of only four longitude lines that are perfectly straight, in the lying system of Latitude and Longitude that is used today.

But not necessarily scientific truth.

"The Bible shows the way to go to heaven, not the way the heavens go" - Galileo

That's not what American Scientist has to say about Galileo's thoughts of scriptural support for astronomical beliefs:

Quote from: American Scientist
Galileo set out his own views of Scripture and science, offering an ingenious interpretation of Joshua’s making the Sun stand still to show that not only does Holy Scripture not oppose Copernican theory, it actually supports it.

Your quote was from 1613 when he was trying to fit his discoveries into the Bible, and the quote above from "Letter to Christina" was after he had given up (partially due to the Church's threats) but also as he decided that the Bible was not meant to be taken literally, that it was a spiritual instruction guide, not literal view of how the universe works.

Either way, the Bible (whichever version you choose to believe) has little to do with the math of comets and Jupiters orbits and can't be used to support or refute those calculations.

And JSS, when you talk about comets and Jupiter, the word of God is the only thing that supports or refutes anything, because it is the word of God. Glory to God.

The word of God says:

There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. 1 Corinthians 15:41

That is why when you think you are looking "so deep" into the universe, what you are seeing is a star that is giving off far less light than the others, that are all basically on the same level, inside of the firmament where God placed them (from Genesis 1:17), at the creation of the world around 6,000 years ago.

There is no universe. And those calculations that are made are "for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:" - exactly what it says in the word of God in Genesis 1:14. Glory to God.

And remember what you are seeing when you look up at the heaven above, the firmament, depends on where you are in the world, as it is like one gigantic kaleidoscope above us, a "molten lookingglass" (from Job 37:18), a mirror than bends the view of the sun, the moon, and the stars as we see them, constantly causing them to be presented at a high elevation angle, up from the horizon, to be magnified, so that we can see them, and to appear in a direction that makes it appear as if we were on a globe. That is why all of the bending lines of longitude above South America, New Zealand, and Australia will bring you to the north geographic South Pole, and most of the lines of longitude above Africa will bring you to the south geographic South Pole (all except those above far west Africa).

Glory to God.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2020, 10:33:08 AM by greenolive »

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Offline JSS

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Re: Asteroid and planetoid collisions and ther orbit?
« Reply #48 on: May 08, 2020, 11:09:45 AM »
And JSS, when you talk about comets and Jupiter, the word of God is the only thing that supports or refutes anything, because it is the word of God. Glory to God.

The word of God says:

There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. 1 Corinthians 15:41

That is why when you think you are looking "so deep" into the universe, what you are seeing is a star that is giving off far less light than the others, that are all basically on the same level, inside of the firmament where God placed them (from Genesis 1:17), at the creation of the world around 6,000 years ago.

There is no universe. And those calculations that are made are "for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:" - exactly what it says in the word of God in Genesis 1:14. Glory to God.

And remember what you are seeing when you look up at the heaven above, the firmament, depends on where you are in the world, as it is like one gigantic kaleidoscope above us, a "molten lookingglass" (from Job 37:18), a mirror than bends the view of the sun, the moon, and the stars as we see them, constantly causing them to be presented at a high elevation angle, up from the horizon, to be magnified, so that we can see them, and to appear in a direction that makes it appear as if we were on a globe. That is why all of the bending lines of longitude above South America, New Zealand, and Australia will bring you to the north geographic South Pole, and most of the lines of longitude above Africa will bring you to the south geographic South Pole (all except those above far west Africa).

Glory to God.

According to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the Book of Mormon, Chapter 12 of the Almna states the following.

15 And thus, according to his word the earth goeth back, and it appeareth unto man that the sun standeth still; yea, and behold, this is so; for surely it is the earth that moveth and not the sun.

So surely the Earth obits the Sun, supporting Copernicanism and a round Earth. 

Should this be moved to Philosophy, Religion & Society?
« Last Edit: May 08, 2020, 11:19:22 AM by JSS »

Re: Asteroid and planetoid collisions and ther orbit?
« Reply #49 on: May 09, 2020, 11:42:02 AM »
Galileo seems to only accept the Bible's support of astronomy when it supports his view.
It’s annoying when people cherry pick and accept sources when they think they back up their viewpoint and dismiss them when they do not, isn’t it...?

It actually doesn’t matter what Galileo believed or whether that quote is even his (I have heard it has been misattributed to him or, if he did say it, he was quoting someone).
What matters is it’s a quote I agree with

I like this quote too:

“Science can purify religion from error and superstition. Religion can purify science from idolatry and false absolutes. Each can draw the other into a wider world, a world in which both can flourish.”
- Pope John Paul II.

I’m not Catholic and, again, I don’t care who said it, it’s a sentiment I agree with.

Your error - and the error of all Bible literalists - is to believe that the Bible is trying to teach us scientific truths. You create a false dichotomy where Scripture is either “true” - and by that you mean scientifically accurate - or false. You believe it to be true and thus you conclude that any science which you believe to contradict Scripture must be false.
I’d like to gently suggest your understanding of Scripture is wrong. Scripture may be infallible but your (and my) understanding of it is not.

I do not expect to find scientific truths in Scripture. In fact, it tells us what it is for:

2 Timothy 3:16-17
“16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work”

It is not Scripture’s intention to teach us scientific truths any more than it is science’s intention (or should not be) to teach us about our purpose or what (if anything) happens after why die.

Believing in modern science doesn’t mean rejecting Scripture, it just means understanding it differently and understanding what it is trying to teach us.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Offline BRrollin

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Re: Asteroid and planetoid collisions and ther orbit?
« Reply #50 on: May 09, 2020, 12:11:10 PM »
I believe Scripture to be fallible, and I think this testifies to the power of God rather than detract from it.

God used imperfect beings to spread his glory, often making concessions to meet them on their terms.
“This just shows that you don't even understand the basic principle of UA...A projectile that goes up and then down again to an observer on Earth is not accelerating, it is the observer on Earth who accelerates.”

- Parsifal


“I hang out with sane people.”

- totallackey

Re: Asteroid and planetoid collisions and ther orbit?
« Reply #51 on: May 10, 2020, 09:35:33 AM »
What about Jupiter's Moons. Orbital rezonances? Why don't they throw each other out of stable orbit?

Answer?

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Offline JSS

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Re: Asteroid and planetoid collisions and ther orbit?
« Reply #52 on: May 10, 2020, 11:46:45 AM »
What about Jupiter's Moons. Orbital rezonances? Why don't they throw each other out of stable orbit?
Answer?

Jupiter can and does throw moons out of orbit, and even rip them apart. That's where Jupiter's rings come from, moons that it's already torn apart. Same with Saturn's much more impressive display. But this takes a long time.

Jupiter's moons are stable over our short human timescales, but not over a billion years.  When you read 'stable' it matters what context they are talking about.

Re: Asteroid and planetoid collisions and ther orbit?
« Reply #53 on: May 11, 2020, 07:03:33 AM »
JSS, that passage you quoted from the book of Mormon is a lie from the pit of hell, and is not the word of God. It is the devil who wrote that, because it obviously goes against the word of God. The word of God is the King James Bible, and further the original Hebrew manuscripts that made the old testament and the Greek manuscripts that made the new testament, that is it.

And Code-Beta Jupiter does not have moons, as first of all Jupiter is the size of a fig, and is the light inside of what would be the rib cage area of a heavenly body, just like humans have bodies, but as my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ tells us flesh is of no use, we as humans have a soul the size of a fig floating (habitating) inside of our rib cage that is either black, on it's way to hell, or white, like a star, in Jesus Christ, on it's way to heaven.

This goes the same for all of the planets - they are all the size of figs. And all of the moons you think you see are also stars, also the size of figs, only giving off much less light.

And BRrollin, the word of God is not fallible. That is blasphemous to say that. The word of God is living. And his name is Jesus Christ. And he is able to save your soul for eternity, if you believe him.

I have told you exactly how the flat world is, and I know what I am dealing with here. But you either believe the word of God or you do not.

And AllAroundTheWorld, in that scripture from the word of God you quoted, 2 Timothy 3:16,17, "thoroughly furnished unto all good works." includes teaching about the flat world, and all of God's creation we live in as it is only history and tradition that has caused you to put science against "religion" as you quote it, and vice versa, and is the reason those weak in the faith in the past have tried to merge the two together, giving concessions to the word of God instead of standing strong and firm in it - through everything.

I gave my life to Jesus Christ four years ago. And just as sure as I am about the scriptures that save my soul forever, in my belief in Jesus Christ, glory to God, I am sure about planets being the size of figs. And I will not back down, because it is the truth.

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Offline JSS

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Re: Asteroid and planetoid collisions and ther orbit?
« Reply #54 on: May 11, 2020, 11:53:24 AM »
JSS, that passage you quoted from the book of Mormon is a lie from the pit of hell, and is not the word of God. It is the devil who wrote that, because it obviously goes against the word of God. The word of God is the King James Bible, and further the original Hebrew manuscripts that made the old testament and the Greek manuscripts that made the new testament, that is it.

This is why religious arguments have no place in scientific discussion. I can't convince you that your faith is wrong, and why would I even want to try? You and only you get to decide what your faith is. I have no business telling you what to believe.

Just as you don't have any in telling anyone else that either.

It's just not anything we can use as proof of anything as it all comes down to "My book is better than your book" and nobody is going to win that argument.

Offline ChrisTP

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Re: Asteroid and planetoid collisions and ther orbit?
« Reply #55 on: May 11, 2020, 12:21:21 PM »
Yes, it's already been said that scripture isn't a data from observations and experimentations and has no place in this topic. I'd be happy with debating religion in the correct place but this isn't it.
Tom is wrong most of the time. Hardly big news, don't you think?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Asteroid and planetoid collisions and ther orbit?
« Reply #56 on: May 12, 2020, 03:16:37 PM »
This is why religious arguments have no place in scientific discussion.

That's not what your constantly cited hero and authority of heliocentrism, Galileo, says. He says that if the Bible supports heliocentrism then we can point to the Bible as scriptual support for astronomy. And if it doesn't support heliocentrism then we can't use it.

And I think that Galileo is a greater authority on heliocentric astronomy than you are.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2020, 04:53:03 PM by Tom Bishop »
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

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Offline JSS

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Re: Asteroid and planetoid collisions and ther orbit?
« Reply #57 on: May 12, 2020, 03:46:45 PM »
This is why religious arguments have no place in scientific discussion.

That's not what your constantly cited hero and authority of heliocentrism, Galileo, says. He says that if the Bible supports heliocentrism then we can point to the Bible as scriptural support for astronomy and use it in discussion. And of it doesn't support heliocentrism then we can't use it.

And I think that Galileo is a greater authority on heliocentric astronomy than you are.

This is a perfect example of derailing a discussion.

If you want to argue religion, there is a whole board for it. Go down there and feel free to discuss Galileo's views on the Bible.

I'm not a mod, but as far as I understand the rules, this isn't the place to discuss ones religious faith.

I'll agree with one thing you said, Galileo was certainly way smarter than I am and I envy his knowledge and intelligence. But he also never got to see close up pictures of Pluto or watch man walk on the Moon, so he would certainly envy me.