totallackey

Re: Coronavirus Successfully Treated by Vitamin C
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2020, 03:48:41 PM »
I am fairly sure that you would have quoted that directly.
You can see above I did not quote him.
You can also see that he has edited his post.
Yes, I can see both of those things.

That does not mean he edited his post to eliminate the word "cure," when the article he referenced states the word, "treat."

Now, care to edit your post to reflect the word, "treat," rather than "cure," and if not, why not?

Re: Coronavirus Successfully Treated by Vitamin C
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2020, 04:17:13 PM »
That does not mean he edited his post to eliminate the word "cure," when the article he referenced states the word, "treat."
No, it doesn't mean that. But I know he did because I remember what his original post said :)

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Now, care to edit your post to reflect the word, "treat," rather than "cure," and if not, why not?
No, because my post doesn't use the word "cure". My source might but I can't edit that.
And my over-riding point, again, is to seek the advice of your local medical professionals if you have symptoms rather than follow advice you see online.
"On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa...Upon looking into the telescope I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore
- An excerpt from the account of the Bishop Experiment. My emphasis

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Coronavirus Successfully Treated by Vitamin C
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2020, 04:27:56 PM »
What if your doctor takes the advice from a pre-published clinical trial and just pumps you with Vit. C until you get better?

Re: Coronavirus Successfully Treated by Vitamin C
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2020, 04:37:43 PM »
What if your doctor takes the advice from a pre-published clinical trial and just pumps you with Vit. C until you get better?
Well, then you're a bit fucked.
But I'd rather take my chances with a medical professional than "some bloke" who says he's a doctor online.
"On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa...Upon looking into the telescope I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore
- An excerpt from the account of the Bishop Experiment. My emphasis

Re: Coronavirus Successfully Treated by Vitamin C
« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2020, 06:31:21 AM »
Now this, Alanis, is ironic

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51827356
"On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa...Upon looking into the telescope I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore
- An excerpt from the account of the Bishop Experiment. My emphasis

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Coronavirus Successfully Treated by Vitamin C
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2020, 07:12:22 AM »
What if your doctor takes the advice from a pre-published clinical trial and just pumps you with Vit. C until you get better?
Well, then you're a bit fucked.
But I'd rather take my chances with a medical professional than "some bloke" who says he's a doctor online.

In fairness, the link tom provided is from a medical journal.
Its just a study that hasn't been peer reviewed yet.

Re: Coronavirus Successfully Treated by Vitamin C
« Reply #26 on: March 11, 2020, 08:29:24 AM »
In fairness, the link tom provided is from a medical journal.
Its just a study that hasn't been peer reviewed yet.
Yes, I'll give him that. It's not as crackpot as some of the things he's posted on here.
But this and the infamous "garlic easily cures cancer" thread make me think he believes a bit too strongly in these sorts of things. And that's fine, I guess. If he gets cancer and starts taking garlic than, say, consulting a doctor then more fool him. Where I think it becomes dangerous is if other people think that these things are a silver bullet and don't consult medical professionals.
There are some promising clinical trials, admittedly, but there is no official advice about taking vitamin C as a treatment.
Not over here anyway:

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/

In brief: if you have symptoms, consult a medical expert.
"On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa...Upon looking into the telescope I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore
- An excerpt from the account of the Bishop Experiment. My emphasis

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Coronavirus Successfully Treated by Vitamin C
« Reply #27 on: March 11, 2020, 08:47:46 AM »
Garlic did reverse cancer, in a double blind medical study. I didn't say anything about not going to a doctor. The first sentence of that thread instructs you to do so. I was correct in the discussion in that thread. Garlic was shown to reverse cancer in humans.

You are wrong about that, are wrong about this, and have NO experimental evidence that can support your position. You calling the doctors who do publish life saving treatments liars and frauds without any cause at all.

You are now desperately trying to make the discussion about someone telling people not to go to the doctor, when none of that was stated anywhere. Dishonest. Where is anyone telling anyone to prepare, mix, and administrate self injected Vitamin C into their arm? Rediculous. They are releasing this information to the public medical community of the world. Stop lying and stop trolling.
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

Re: Coronavirus Successfully Treated by Vitamin C
« Reply #28 on: March 11, 2020, 09:08:23 AM »
You are wrong about that, are wrong about this, and have NO experimental evidence that can support your position.
Oh well, if your argument is "ur wrong" then I guess I'll have to concede the point, there's simply no way of arguing with that.

And yet, despite me being wrong there is, strangely, no advice on the NHS page about coronavirus to take more vitamin C as a treatmend.
And when you go to the doctor and they find you have cancer I don't believe the first thing they say is "you need to eat more garlic, mate, that'll sort you out".

You have a habit of cherry-picking sources which align with your world view and ignoring or dismissing those that don't.
And given the whole host of things you just don't understand (how are you getting on with crepuscular rays and understanding that 3D models don't have a scale?), you are not someone whose opinions I can take seriously. Right now this is very much at the clinical trial stage, there are admittedly some promising results but a lot more peer review and testing is needed before conclusions can be drawn. You're only posting this because it aligns with your world-view. But given that part of your world-view is (from the other thread) that "Curing cancer is trivial", it shouldn't be taken seriously.

In brief, if you have symptoms, consult a medical professional.
"On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa...Upon looking into the telescope I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore
- An excerpt from the account of the Bishop Experiment. My emphasis

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Coronavirus Successfully Treated by Vitamin C
« Reply #29 on: March 11, 2020, 09:17:31 AM »
They are releasing this information to the public medical community of the world.

... and you're releasing it to the non-medical community at large. You should leave it to the medical community to release it, if this video was not intended for the non-medical community at large ....
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Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
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Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Coronavirus Successfully Treated by Vitamin C
« Reply #30 on: March 11, 2020, 09:23:17 AM »
You are wrong about that, are wrong about this, and have NO experimental evidence that can support your position.
Oh well, if your argument is "ur wrong" then I guess I'll have to concede the point, there's simply no way of arguing with that.

The studies which show that Vitamin C IVs show benefit is direct physical evidence. An opinion piece on Snopes.com which does no experimentation is not evidence. Actually, is evidence, but of very low value in the face of direct experimental evidence showing your position to be wrong.

Your own opinion is also not evidence. We see that you have a very difficult time understanding what objective evidence is and is not.

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And yet, despite me being wrong there is, strangely, no advice on the NHS page about coronavirus to take more vitamin C as a treatmend.

China is instructing NHS and others to look into this. It was released only a few days ago. This is world news. We once again receive opinion from you which should clearly be held in very low regard.

New studies on the Coronavirus are released and it's not on NHS in those few days so it's false or should be discarded? Funny, but no.

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You have a habit of cherry-picking sources which align with your world view and ignoring or dismissing those that don't.

Once again, we have direct physical evidence versus OPINION. Which is more powerful?

Have you shown direct physical evidence? Yes or no?

Is whatever source you are quoting showing direct physical evidence? Yes or no?

Enough said. You are trying to win an argument against evidence based medicine with an opinion.

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you are not someone whose opinions I can take seriously.

As you have posted not a shred of evidence to discredit the doctors or studies, we must discard your opinion. You continuously post things that you are wrong about, and are unable to sufficiently justify your position.

They are releasing this information to the public medical community of the world.

... and you're releasing it to the non-medical community at large. You should leave it to the medical community to release it, if this video was not intended for the non-medical community at large ....

The doctor in that video is pretty much telling you to talk to your doctor about it, go to one who does do this sort of thing, or otherwise advocate for further study. He's not telling anyone to mix and inject Vitamin C in their arm.

He's also providing information on what is being done in China. Doctors, medical professionals, and politicians also watch videos on youtube, whether they find it themselves or are linked to them, and this is another way to get information out.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2020, 09:56:23 AM by Tom Bishop »
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Coronavirus Successfully Treated by Vitamin C
« Reply #31 on: March 11, 2020, 09:39:26 AM »
While Tom does have evidence, it is an pre-published, un-reviewed, short term clinical trial.  From what I saw, it doesn't have any link to the vitamin actually killing the virus, just that when given megandoses of V-C, some people felt better in a few days.  I didn't read if they had other symptom management delivered or not. 

But this is also China.  Trust in their information is dubious at best.  Best to wait for confirmation from other people.

Or better yet.  Tom, get infected and take mega doses if vitamin C.  See if you are cured/treated.

totallackey

Re: Coronavirus Successfully Treated by Vitamin C
« Reply #32 on: March 11, 2020, 10:14:59 AM »
That does not mean he edited his post to eliminate the word "cure," when the article he referenced states the word, "treat."
No, it doesn't mean that. But I know he did because I remember what his original post said :)

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Now, care to edit your post to reflect the word, "treat," rather than "cure," and if not, why not?
No, because my post doesn't use the word "cure". My source might but I can't edit that.
And my over-riding point, again, is to seek the advice of your local medical professionals if you have symptoms rather than follow advice you see online.
Your overriding point seems to post a source that doesn't address the issue.

Tom posted a source that contains the word "treat."

You posted a source that contains the word," cure," yet, here you are accusing Tom of using the word, "cure."

Highly typical stuff from you.

Re: Coronavirus Successfully Treated by Vitamin C
« Reply #33 on: March 11, 2020, 10:33:29 AM »
China is instructing NHS and others to look into this. It was released only a few days ago.
Exactly, so has had no time for proper peer review. I'm not saying that this shouldn't be looked into but neither should firm conclusions be given on the basis of it.

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New studies on the Coronavirus are released and it's not on NHS in those few days so it's false or should be discarded?
It should be treated with caution and people should consult medical professionals if they have symptoms.

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Once again, we have direct physical evidence versus OPINION. Which is more powerful?

For you the answer to that seems to depend on whether the evidence backs up your world view. As I said, you have a habit of cherry picking and ignoring a lot of physical evidence which shows you to be wrong about things.

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You continuously post things that you are wrong about, and are unable to sufficiently justify your position.
Do I, though? There's a 14 page thread in AR about stuff you don't understand.
I spent 2 days failing to explain to you how a simple experiment with a laser and a boat worked. Finally someone else managed to explain it to you and you conceded I was right. I spent another couple of days explaining the shadow direction in an eclipse. You did finally understand that one too.
I remember you once stating that celestial bodies don't change angular size as proof of your ideas - I countered with yes they do, the planets do, and I provided a source. You never responded.
And now I'm explaining how crepuscular rays work and I note you haven't responded about that either, you have shown you don't understand about scale in 3D models.
That's just off the top of my head. These encounters should have demonstrated that I do actually know what I'm talking about.

When it comes to this, OK, I'm not a medical doctor. And I'll admit some of the trial results are encouraging and do deserve some further investigation. But I've just finished reading Bill Bryson's book about The Body and in that he notes there's a long-standing debate in medicine about how effective vitamins are and whether people really need to take supplements. That debate is far from over and evidence either way far from conclusive. The tone of your message, and the other thread I've mentioned, make me think you are implying otherwise.

Edit: this is the relevant quote from Byron's book:
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"The greatest of vitamin controversies was stirred up by the American chemist Linus Pauling who had the distinction of winning not one but two Nobel Prizes. Pauling believed that massive doses of vitamin C were effective against colds, flu and even some cancers. He had no evidence for any of his claims, and all have been pretty well discredited by subsequent studies."

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The doctor in that video is pretty much telling you to talk to your doctor about it, go to one who does do this sort of thing, or otherwise advocate for further study. He's not telling anyone to mix and inject Vitamin C in their arm.
That is good advice.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2020, 10:43:38 AM by AllAroundTheWorld »
"On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa...Upon looking into the telescope I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore
- An excerpt from the account of the Bishop Experiment. My emphasis

Re: Coronavirus Successfully Treated by Vitamin C
« Reply #34 on: March 11, 2020, 11:43:06 AM »
I am a bit late posting to this but just want to point out that Toms original post started with something like 'Once again nature provides the CURE'.
He edited his post, but it still says 'Surprise surprise' as if Tom had any clue that vitamin C would be an effective treatment.
I feel that if his post had just been a simple 'Hey look, vitamin C may possibly be successful in treating coronavirus.' it would have probably not generated any debate and would just be good news.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Coronavirus Successfully Treated by Vitamin C
« Reply #35 on: March 11, 2020, 12:29:14 PM »
I am a bit late posting to this but just want to point out that Toms original post started with something like 'Once again nature provides the CURE'.
He edited his post, but it still says 'Surprise surprise' as if Tom had any clue that vitamin C would be an effective treatment.
I feel that if his post had just been a simple 'Hey look, vitamin C may possibly be successful in treating coronavirus.' it would have probably not generated any debate and would just be good news.

I said "surprise surprise, nature can cure disease", which is not an inaccurate statement, either. Nature can, and does. The vast majority of Coronavirus are cured naturally within the body, and regardless of Vitamin C. This internal natural curing of disease is indisputable, and routine. Vitamins are natural food for the body and provides the ammunition the body needs.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2020, 12:44:22 PM by Tom Bishop »
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

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Online Rama Set

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Re: Coronavirus Successfully Treated by Vitamin C
« Reply #36 on: March 11, 2020, 12:44:00 PM »
What do you mean by natural?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Coronavirus Successfully Treated by Vitamin C
« Reply #37 on: March 11, 2020, 01:55:21 PM »
What do you mean by natural?

It exists in nature and is not an invention of man. Vitamins are food, and natural. Your body's processes are natural. Diseases are routinely cured in the body, with only food and water as input.

As opposed to using artificial drugs, which do not exist in nature.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2020, 12:27:27 AM by Tom Bishop »
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

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Offline stack

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Re: Coronavirus Successfully Treated by Vitamin C
« Reply #38 on: March 11, 2020, 09:56:23 PM »
The problem here is not that VC is or could be a part of treatment for COVID it's that it's seemingly positioned as THE treatment for COVID. Which lends a reader to believe, "That's all I need, an IV bag of VC and I'm good."

I think we'll find that VC is part of a cocktail treatment. Is it the panacea unto itself? Doubtful. Just be mindful of positioning.
Not much is known about the celestial bodies and their distances.

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Offline Fortuna

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Re: Coronavirus Successfully Treated by Vitamin C
« Reply #39 on: March 12, 2020, 04:58:38 AM »
Still waiting on a scientific paper on this.

Also, how can a vitamin cure a viral infection?  Best it does is keep the immune system functional.  So I guess if you're deficient, you'll see a boost.

But please, tell me what process causes the virus to die from contact with a mineral?

The tiny vitamin C crystals attach themselves to the virus and self-destruct, thereby effectively neutralizing the threat the virus poses to the person. Think about it like a minefield. The more vitamin C you take, the more crystal there will be in your body to float around and effectively destroy the virus. This is impossible to verify because microscopes can’t see the tiny crystal mines because they’re too small but you can prove it easily by simply taking the vitamin and watch as the virus is effectively neutralized from the victims blood stream.