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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #40 on: February 16, 2020, 08:01:46 PM »
It takes the moon 28 days to make a round trip around a RE. 14 days on the side of the sun and 14 days on the night side. That means you shouldn’t be able to see the moon for 14 nights.

...except that (in the globe model, according to the textbooks and other sources) the Earth rotates once every 24 hours or so within those 28 days. So there's no fixed "night side" to the Earth. There's roughly 28 days and nights to each lunar cycle
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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #41 on: February 16, 2020, 08:06:41 PM »
The second article has a lot of stars surrounding the moon but says the moon will only pass in front of one but doesn’t show any evidence b of that. Just a picture with the star next to it.

Took me 30 seconds





https://www.astronomylabs.com/blog/-the-october-18-2016-lunar-occultation-of-the-star-aldebaran

More?
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Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #42 on: February 17, 2020, 07:52:40 AM »
It takes the moon 28 days to make a round trip around a RE. 14 days on the side of the sun and 14 days on the night side. That means you shouldn’t be able to see the moon for 14 nights.

...except that (in the globe model, according to the textbooks and other sources) the Earth rotates once every 24 hours or so within those 28 days. So there's no fixed "night side" to the Earth. There's roughly 28 days and nights to each lunar cycle


What are you talking about. For 14 days the moon will be on the same side as the Sun.  Day will alway be on the same side as the sun and nights will always be on the opposite side of the sun.  FE rotates every 24 hours so everyone on a RE has a night and day and every night is on the same side.  Which is the opposite that the sun is on.

Take a quarter and run it from one side of the sky to the other and see how many stars you pass over. Thats how many stars the moon should pass over on the 14 nights the moon is on the opposite side of the sun. The other 14 days it’s on the same side as the Sun, shouldn’t even be seen at night.  But yet it is.

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #43 on: February 17, 2020, 09:17:10 AM »
What are you talking about.

... could well ask you the same question, since you're mixing your FE and RE theory below, and can't seem to make up your mind which one you want to cite.

For 14 days the moon will be on the same side as the Sun. 

Yes, that would be, in RE, the hemisphere that faces the Sun. Which changes (for those on the surface) with every Earth day and night as the Earth rotates, so you move through that hemisphere.

Day will alway be on the same side as the sun and nights will always be on the opposite side of the sun.  FE rotates every 24 hours so everyone on a RE has a night and day and every night is on the same side.  Which is the opposite that the sun is on.

Yes. And those days and nights, for those on the surface, move under the Moon on RE, which only moves (24/360 = ) 7 degrees of its orbit for each Earth night and day, with the observers moving 360 degrees in the same time.

Take a quarter and run it from one side of the sky to the other and see how many stars you pass over. Thats how many stars the moon should pass over on the 14 nights the moon is on the opposite side of the sun. The other 14 days it’s on the same side as the Sun, shouldn’t even be seen at night.  But yet it is.

What does that tell you, since you think it "shouldn't be seen"? All the observational evidence of every human, ever, contradicts what you think should happen, but tallies exactly with the textbooks (which were written by a group of the millions of astronomers who have studied it as their life's work), the experience of everyone who has studied the Moon, travelled to it, or sent craft to it. It only took me half a minute to find the two videos above which show exactly the event that you claim is not happening ...

Is Astronomy your life's work? How long do you spend looking at the Moon, in comparision to professional astronomers?

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Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #44 on: February 17, 2020, 06:51:13 PM »
What are you talking about.

... could well ask you the same question, since you're mixing your FE and RE theory below, and can't seem to make up your mind which one you want to cite.

For 14 days the moon will be on the same side as the Sun. 

Yes, that would be, in RE, the hemisphere that faces the Sun. Which changes (for those on the surface) with every Earth day and night as the Earth rotates, so you move through that hemisphere.

Day will alway be on the same side as the sun and nights will always be on the opposite side of the sun.  FE rotates every 24 hours so everyone on a RE has a night and day and every night is on the same side.  Which is the opposite that the sun is on.

Yes. And those days and nights, for those on the surface, move under the Moon on RE, which only moves (24/360 = ) 7 degrees of its orbit for each Earth night and day, with the observers moving 360 degrees in the same time.

Take a quarter and run it from one side of the sky to the other and see how many stars you pass over. Thats how many stars the moon should pass over on the 14 nights the moon is on the opposite side of the sun. The other 14 days it’s on the same side as the Sun, shouldn’t even be seen at night.  But yet it is.

What does that tell you, since you think it "shouldn't be seen"? All the observational evidence of every human, ever, contradicts what you think should happen, but tallies exactly with the textbooks (which were written by a group of the millions of astronomers who have studied it as their life's work), the experience of everyone who has studied the Moon, travelled to it, or sent craft to it. It only took me half a minute to find the two videos above which show exactly the event that you claim is not happening ...

Is Astronomy your life's work? How long do you spend looking at the Moon, in comparision to professional astronomers?


How can you see the moon at night when the moon is on the same side as the Sun

Offline model 29

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Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #45 on: February 17, 2020, 08:20:44 PM »
How is it possible that the moon doesn’t pass in front of any stars. I kind of understand how it works on a flat Earth. But I’m curious what’s the explanation for it on a round earth. And if it does, I’ve never seen it happen.  And I have watched the moon move across the night sky many of times.
They do.  You didn't look close enough.
Just as you’ll never see a star cross over another star. They all run in perfect circles around the North Star. And that should not be if stars are at different distances from Earth.
Sit in a chair and find 2 objects one close and one far away that lines up with each other.   Spin in a circle and watch the 2 objects move apart.
Look at two mountains of varied distance miles away.  Take one step to the side.  How much difference do you see?  This is closer to the scale of Earth's movement in relation to the stars.
How can you see the moon at night when the moon is on the same side as the Sun
Are you saying we can only see half to full moon phases, and that it suddenly vanishes or appears at half moon?  Learn how the phases of the moon works, and when they are visible.

Stars rise in the east and set in then west, and in the northern hemisphere they appear to rotate CCW around a north celestial pole.  In the southern hemisphere they appear to rotate CW around a southern celestial pole.  On the equator one can see them rise straight up and set straight down if they are equatorial stars, and rotate around two opposite celestial poles on the horizon.

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #46 on: February 17, 2020, 10:08:52 PM »
How can you see the moon at night when the moon is on the same side as the Sun

Like this. View from above. Green lines between Earth (larger circle below) are sightlines from observers in day and night who can see the Moon (smaller circle above).





Shall I draw something similar on your graphics above?  Green sightlines from night side of Earth to possible positions of Moon on day side....

« Last Edit: February 17, 2020, 10:19:17 PM by Tumeni »
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #47 on: February 17, 2020, 10:26:31 PM »
Now tell us how it is possible that some people have seen the crescent moon at midnight: https://savageplane.wordpress.com/2019/02/13/impossible-heliocentric-moon-phases-explained/
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #48 on: February 17, 2020, 10:36:23 PM »
Now tell us how it is possible that some people have seen the crescent moon at midnight: https://savageplane.wordpress.com/2019/02/13/impossible-heliocentric-moon-phases-explained/

First;

Specify time, date, place of observation, and some evidence that it was actually seen at that time, date and place.

The author of that page above seems to have taken no account of observer location, nor axial tilt.

If he wants to disprove the globe model, he needs to account for all of it, not just cherry-pick the bits that suit him ....
« Last Edit: February 17, 2020, 10:49:04 PM by Tumeni »
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #49 on: February 17, 2020, 10:55:12 PM »
The author provides observations and locations of it happening, it's in the link. It happens on mooncalc.org as well.
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #50 on: February 17, 2020, 10:59:15 PM »
The author provides observations and locations of it happening, it's in the link. It happens on mooncalc.org as well.

So, if the author has the photos to prove it happened, and at least one moon calculator confirms it, why does it need to be explained?
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #51 on: February 17, 2020, 11:05:41 PM »
The author provides observations and locations of it happening, it's in the link. It happens on mooncalc.org as well.

So, if the author has the photos to prove it happened, and at least one moon calculator confirms it, why does it need to be explained?

It needs to be explained because it does not appear to be possible in the RE model



« Last Edit: February 17, 2020, 11:15:08 PM by Tom Bishop »
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #52 on: February 17, 2020, 11:16:28 PM »
Tom, have you tried taking a standard desktop or table top globe, setting it up with model moon and sun, aligning it according to the correct axial tilt for that day of the year, and sighting manually from Milton Keynes (MK44 postcode) toward the Moon?

I know I can do this for myself, but before I do, I'd like to know if you, the author, or anyone else has done it yet. 



... or are we relying totally on the author's second diagram, which apparently attempts to show a visible horizon in an equatorial region, a region which is nowhere near Milton Keynes, thus rendering the diagram invalid?
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #53 on: February 17, 2020, 11:22:19 PM »
The author goes to lengths to explain that it doesn't really matter. The earth can be cut off at Blunham, or scaled to one's desire, and it's still not possible.

I would suggest finding some way to make these observations possible in RE. I have not yet seen an explanation for this.
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #54 on: February 17, 2020, 11:38:06 PM »
The author goes to lengths to explain that it doesn't really matter.

What "doesn't really matter"?
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #55 on: February 18, 2020, 12:29:51 AM »
The author goes to lengths to explain that it doesn't really matter.

What "doesn't really matter"?

If the Earth shrunken to half it's size, with Blunham at the edge rather than the equator, the Moon will still be below the horizon.

I see a failure of the Round Earth model to explain this. I thought you said that RE could explain all observations?
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #56 on: February 18, 2020, 12:31:35 AM »
I've modelled it in 3D with a tabletop globe, and here's an approximation, limited by 2D drawing.



A.T. = Axial Tilt

Blunham is in the vicinity of the three orange dots as it crosses midnight, not at the red line

I see no issue with Blunham having a sightline to the Moon at this point.



Talking of midnight, it's well after that in the UK. Back in 8 hours or so
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #57 on: February 18, 2020, 12:41:32 AM »
In the NH after the March 21st Equinox the nights get shorter, not longer, until summer comes.

You appear to have drawn some arbitrary lines, making the night longer for May 10, in a vain attempt to salvage an explanation for your model. Not convincing.
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #58 on: February 18, 2020, 12:51:51 AM »
In the NH after the March 21st Equinox the nights get shorter, not longer, until summer comes.

You appear to have drawn some arbitrary lines, making the night longer for May 10, in a vain attempt to salvage an explanation for your model. Not convincing.

The video author drew arbitrary lines, with the horizon line for Blunham in totally the wrong place.

I modelled it in 3D with a replica globe, and based the overlay onto his graphic on this 3D picture (upload tomorrow)

10 May is at roughly 2/3 of the timespan between equinox and solstice, so the axial tilt is 30 degrees away from the reference line to the sun. On the equinox it would be 90, 1/3 of the way is 60, and at the solstice it would be zero.

The black dot is the North Pole. 

The sun set on the 10th at 20.42, rose at 5.16 on the 11th. A night of 8h36m. Sunset to midnight = 3h18m, midnight to sunrise 5h16m. So midnight on the clock occurred nearer to sunset than sunrise. 3/8 of the way through the night. Which places Blunham nearer the Moon, as opposed to further round. Nearer the leftmost orange square. Making it easier to see the Moon

If you disagree the lines, let's see your modelling of it.
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Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #59 on: February 18, 2020, 12:59:30 AM »
Back in 8 hours or so, Tom. Please don't talk about me when I'm gone.
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