Re: How GPS Works and what about 64 satellites claimed by NASA
« Reply #80 on: February 18, 2020, 01:16:29 PM »
A geostationary satellite =/= a GPS satellite.

Define the inequality, please.

Also, do you accept that the photographers above have actually captured photos of geostationary satellites, since you're now trying to say that they are not the same as GPS?

If you protest that A does not equal B, isn't that tacit acceptance that A and B actually exist?
I wrote you cannot see a GPS satellite at 22k miles above the earth (it is not like I believe they are that high anyway, but that is another thread).

You posted a video of a geostationary satellite.

GPS satellites are not geostationary.

OK, I accept they are not geostationary.

How can you argue they are not, whilst also claiming they do not exist? They must exist in order to have an orbital attribute, do they not?
I have not denied the existence of satellites circling above the earth.

I don't believe they are what is claimed however, and I don't believe that GPS is transmitted to us from these satellites for the reasons I have stated in the thread.

ETA: added the word "not."
« Last Edit: February 18, 2020, 01:28:13 PM by totallackey »
I didn't say (conversion of) thermal energy wasn't involved at all.
A rocket does not create thrust by converting thermal energy.

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: How GPS Works and what about 64 satellites claimed by NASA
« Reply #81 on: February 18, 2020, 01:20:33 PM »
I have denied the existence of satellites circling above the earth.

I don't believe they are what is claimed however, and I don't believe that GPS is transmitted to us from these satellites for the reasons I have stated in the thread.

... then why are you taking issue with whether or not they are geostationary? Why was your first response "they don't exist" rather than correcting me on their orbit type?
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Re: How GPS Works and what about 64 satellites claimed by NASA
« Reply #82 on: February 18, 2020, 01:27:46 PM »
I have not denied the existence of satellites circling above the earth.

I don't believe they are what is claimed however, and I don't believe that GPS is transmitted to us from these satellites for the reasons I have stated in the thread.

... then why are you taking issue with whether or not they are geostationary? Why was your first response "they don't exist" rather than correcting me on their orbit type?
I should have wrote, "I have NOT denied the existence of satellites circling above the earth."

I am correcting the statement in the post.
I didn't say (conversion of) thermal energy wasn't involved at all.
A rocket does not create thrust by converting thermal energy.

Re: How GPS Works and what about 64 satellites claimed by NASA
« Reply #83 on: February 20, 2020, 11:35:49 AM »
I have not denied the existence of satellites circling above the earth.

I don't believe they are what is claimed however, and I don't believe that GPS is transmitted to us from these satellites for the reasons I have stated in the thread.

... then why are you taking issue with whether or not they are geostationary? Why was your first response "they don't exist" rather than correcting me on their orbit type?
I should have wrote, "I have NOT denied the existence of satellites circling above the earth."

I am correcting the statement in the post.

But I believe there is no satellite exist as if a satellite can provide signals from 36000 km accurate then a huge signal tower placed on height can be this powerful as well.

Another clue is if we are getting everything from satellites then why the whole world is connected with cables? [https://www.submarinecablemap.com/]

 

Re: How GPS Works and what about 64 satellites claimed by NASA
« Reply #84 on: February 20, 2020, 12:15:10 PM »
I have not denied the existence of satellites circling above the earth.

I don't believe they are what is claimed however, and I don't believe that GPS is transmitted to us from these satellites for the reasons I have stated in the thread.

... then why are you taking issue with whether or not they are geostationary? Why was your first response "they don't exist" rather than correcting me on their orbit type?
I should have wrote, "I have NOT denied the existence of satellites circling above the earth."

I am correcting the statement in the post.

But I believe there is no satellite exist as if a satellite can provide signals from 36000 km accurate then a huge signal tower placed on height can be this powerful as well.
I agree the signals are not coming from 36,000 km. I do not believe there is anything man-made above 300-400 km above our heads...but building a tower that tall ain't gonna happen.
Another clue is if we are getting everything from satellites then why the whole world is connected with cables? [https://www.submarinecablemap.com/]
Cables are the primary connectors for information and have been for some time.

I believe a lot of the ship communications that take place are still facilitated in this manner (buoys attached).
« Last Edit: February 22, 2020, 08:59:32 PM by totallackey »
I didn't say (conversion of) thermal energy wasn't involved at all.
A rocket does not create thrust by converting thermal energy.

Offline iCare

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Re: How GPS Works and what about 64 satellites claimed by NASA
« Reply #85 on: February 20, 2020, 01:58:25 PM »
But I believe there is no satellite exist as if a satellite can provide signals from 36000 km accurate then a huge signal tower placed on height can be this powerful as well.

Actually, a signal tower could draw on a lot more power being ground based than a satellite which has to make do with whatever it can generate in orbit (e.g. by solar panels).
The main advantages of satellites are not that they are more powerful.

Another clue is if we are getting everything from satellites then why the whole world is connected with cables? [https://www.submarinecablemap.com/]

The existence of landline telephones ist not a clue that mobile phones do not exist.
We're not getting everything from satellites, they are just on means of many.
Usually, cables have much better performance, so it makes sense to use them wherever possible.
=> At home, landline (broadband) is generally better. Instead of using a 5 mile extension cord when going for a walk, a wireless connection would seem more appropriate.

iC
"I'm sorry, if you were right, I would agree with you."
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Re: How GPS Works and what about 64 satellites claimed by NASA
« Reply #86 on: February 20, 2020, 02:48:38 PM »
GPS satellites orbit at an altitude of 12,500 miles.  Not 22,000

Re: How GPS Works and what about 64 satellites claimed by NASA
« Reply #87 on: February 20, 2020, 03:29:17 PM »
GPS satellites orbit at an altitude of 12,500 miles.  Not 22,000
Depends on what system you choose...

The altitudes claimed range from 11,000 to 24,000 miles.

The OP referred to Pakistan and it happens that the altitude claimed for the system in India is 22,000.

That is why I introduced the figure of 22,000.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2020, 03:31:52 PM by totallackey »
I didn't say (conversion of) thermal energy wasn't involved at all.
A rocket does not create thrust by converting thermal energy.

Offline iCare

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Re: How GPS Works and what about 64 satellites claimed by NASA
« Reply #88 on: February 20, 2020, 04:46:24 PM »
GPS satellites orbit at an altitude of 12,500 miles.  Not 22,000
Depends on what system you choose...
Well, actually by calling it GPS the system has been chosen.
When starting to split hairs, split all ot them:  GPS is specifically the US American system. While it's often (incorrectly) used to refer to all systems, GNSS would be the general term.

The altitudes claimed range from 11,000 to 24,000 miles.
What value does the discussion about different orbits add to this discussion?
If there are no satellites used , it doesn't matter at which height they don't orbit.
If there are satellites, the difference in height is insignificant for the arguments brought forward in this thread.

The OP referred to Pakistan and it happens that the altitude claimed for the system in India is 22,000.
See above. The author asked about GPS and NASA; not about Pakistan.
The Indian Regional Navigation Satellite System (IRNSS) is not operated by NASA and it's not even global.

That is why I introduced the figure of 22,000.
See above.
Introducing arbitrary orbits does nothing but deflect from the actual question.
can any flat earther explain if there is no satellite how GPS works?
So far I've only read some vage claims, why GPS would be suspected to not work with satellites, but no viable explanation, how it would work otherwise.
As GPS is well documented (most aspects verifiable by anyone), it very much looks like, GPS is actually satellite based.

iC
"I'm sorry, if you were right, I would agree with you."
Robin Williams as Dr. Sayer in "Awakenings" (1990)

Re: How GPS Works and what about 64 satellites claimed by NASA
« Reply #89 on: February 21, 2020, 12:15:00 PM »
But I believe there is no satellite exist as if a satellite can provide signals from 36000 km accurate then a huge signal tower placed on height can be this powerful as well.

Actually, a signal tower could draw on a lot more power being ground based than a satellite which has to make do with whatever it can generate in orbit (e.g. by solar panels).
The main advantages of satellites are not that they are more powerful.

Another clue is if we are getting everything from satellites then why the whole world is connected with cables? [https://www.submarinecablemap.com/]

The existence of landline telephones ist not a clue that mobile phones do not exist.
We're not getting everything from satellites, they are just on means of many.
Usually, cables have much better performance, so it makes sense to use them wherever possible.
=> At home, landline (broadband) is generally better. Instead of using a 5 mile extension cord when going for a walk, a wireless connection would seem more appropriate.

iC

These cables are main source of internet in Pakistan. Everytime internet slow down I receive messages from my internet providers that the submarine cables are damaged so internet will be remain slow till this time. It clearly shows we are getting internet through cable but other sources are claiming Pakistan own 4 Satellites then why the hell Pakistan is connected through cable with sudan egypt and then France?

And its nice to see that you are accepting that cables are more powerful than what the satellites are doing? all the videos they are making are CGI supported. in 1963-65 dont know the exact time when neil armstrong admitted that we can not see stars (because NASA dont have the CGI technology to show stars in background lol) then in Mike Massimino telling in his interview that we can see stars and galaxy and everything (because now they have the technology to proof this fake propaganda). 

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: How GPS Works and what about 64 satellites claimed by NASA
« Reply #90 on: February 21, 2020, 12:49:18 PM »
It clearly shows we are getting internet through cable but other sources are claiming Pakistan own 4 Satellites then why the hell Pakistan is connected through cable with sudan egypt and then France?

... perhaps because the satellites don't handle your internet traffic, and perform other, different tasks?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Satellites_of_Pakistan
 

And its nice to see that you are accepting that cables are more powerful than what the satellites are doing?

Cables are probably better than satellite for you accessing this forum, but they're useless for Earth Observation and Weather, which at least a few of your Pakistani satellites appear to be tasked with...



...  dont know the exact time when neil armstrong admitted that we can not see stars (because NASA dont have the CGI technology to show stars in background lol) then in Mike Massimino telling in his interview that we can see stars and galaxy and everything (because now they have the technology to proof this fake propaganda).

Are you SURE you're not misquoting anyone ....? Absolutely sure?
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Offline iCare

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Re: How GPS Works and what about 64 satellites claimed by NASA
« Reply #91 on: February 21, 2020, 01:02:58 PM »
These cables are main source of internet in Pakistan. Everytime internet slow down I receive messages from my internet providers that the submarine cables are damaged so internet will be remain slow till this time. It clearly shows we are getting internet through cable but other sources are claiming Pakistan own 4 Satellites then
Why would one be in conflict with the other?
Not to long ago broadband here was only available in cities; if you needed fast internet in a rural area, the only choice was getting it by satellite.

why the hell Pakistan is connected through cable with sudan egypt and then France?
If for no other reason (there are others), it makes sense from a redundancy point of view.
Also those satellites might not (exclusively) be used for data traffic.

And its nice to see that you are accepting that cables are more powerful than what the satellites are doing?
Actually, that is not quite what I "accepted". I explicitly mentioned, that cables usually have much better performance wherever possible.
In contrast satellites my be the better choice, e.g. where
  • there is an "unusual" requirement,
  • performance is not the main consideration or
  • use of cables is impossible (e.g. for GNSS/GPS)

all the videos they are making are CGI supported.
No, they are not.

in 1963-65 dont know the exact time when neil armstrong admitted that we can not see stars (because NASA dont have the CGI technology to show stars in background lol) then in Mike Massimino telling in his interview that we can see stars and galaxy and everything (because now they have the technology to proof this fake propaganda).
There are quite simple and logical reasons for this; they are publicly available from and verified by various sources, so I won't repeat them here ... if u care, look it up.
Moreover, it's quite possible to manipulate photos and videos without CGI. (Movie special effects didn't wait for CGI to come around ...).
 
iC
"I'm sorry, if you were right, I would agree with you."
Robin Williams as Dr. Sayer in "Awakenings" (1990)

Re: How GPS Works and what about 64 satellites claimed by NASA
« Reply #92 on: February 22, 2020, 07:47:15 PM »
GPS satellites orbit at an altitude of 12,500 miles.  Not 22,000
Depends on what system you choose...
Well, actually by calling it GPS the system has been chosen.
When starting to split hairs, split all ot them:  GPS is specifically the US American system. While it's often (incorrectly) used to refer to all systems, GNSS would be the general term.
So, you come to split hairs, only to conclude with a generality?

That's lovely.

I noticed the OP was offering Pakistan as a location and went with the 22,000 mile number.

The altitudes claimed range from 11,000 to 24,000 miles.
What value does the discussion about different orbits add to this discussion?
If there are no satellites used , it doesn't matter at which height they don't orbit.
If there are satellites, the difference in height is insignificant for the arguments brought forward in this thread.
I was discussing visibility with another poster.

I don't think that really bothers you, does it?

If it is not adding value, then what is all this writing I see directly above mine?
The OP referred to Pakistan and it happens that the altitude claimed for the system in India is 22,000.
See above. The author asked about GPS and NASA; not about Pakistan.
The Indian Regional Navigation Satellite System (IRNSS) is not operated by NASA and it's not even global.
See above.

I was responding to the OP and another member.

I can offer input here just the same way as you, thank you very much.
That is why I introduced the figure of 22,000.
See above.
Introducing arbitrary orbits does nothing but deflect from the actual question.
There is nothing arbitrary about the figure of 22,000 miles for the Indian System.

That is an actual figure.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2020, 08:14:38 PM by totallackey »
I didn't say (conversion of) thermal energy wasn't involved at all.
A rocket does not create thrust by converting thermal energy.

Re: How GPS Works and what about 64 satellites claimed by NASA
« Reply #93 on: February 22, 2020, 08:34:48 PM »
GPS satellites orbit at an altitude of 12,500 miles.  Not 22,000
Depends on what system you choose...

The altitudes claimed range from 11,000 to 24,000 miles.

The OP referred to Pakistan and it happens that the altitude claimed for the system in India is 22,000.

That is why I introduced the figure of 22,000.
GNSS satellites orbit well above the Earth’s atmosphere. GPS and GLONASS satellites orbit at altitudes close to 20,000 km. BeiDou and Galileo satellites orbit a bit higher, around 21,500 km for BeiDou and 23,000 km for Galileo. GNSS orbits, which are more or less circular, and highly stable and predictable, fall into the category of MEO, for medium earth orbit.

Offline iCare

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Re: How GPS Works and what about 64 satellites claimed by NASA
« Reply #94 on: February 23, 2020, 12:27:07 PM »
I was discussing visibility with another poster.
I don't think that really bothers you, does it?
This being a public forum, I thought joining a discussion and adding to it was the very idea of it?
Did I miss a "this is a private dialogue" flag? If so - sincere apologies.

I joined this discussion, because I'm curious how GPS could work without satellites.
Can you provide any insight on that issue?

iC
"I'm sorry, if you were right, I would agree with you."
Robin Williams as Dr. Sayer in "Awakenings" (1990)

Re: How GPS Works and what about 64 satellites claimed by NASA
« Reply #95 on: February 24, 2020, 10:38:47 AM »
I was discussing visibility with another poster.
I don't think that really bothers you, does it?
This being a public forum, I thought joining a discussion and adding to it was the very idea of it?
Did I miss a "this is a private dialogue" flag? If so - sincere apologies.

I joined this discussion, because I'm curious how GPS could work without satellites.
Can you provide any insight on that issue?

iC
The lack of an explanation would seem to confirm how GNSS operates, in line with the documentation.

Re: How GPS Works and what about 64 satellites claimed by NASA
« Reply #96 on: February 24, 2020, 11:45:38 AM »
I was discussing visibility with another poster.
I don't think that really bothers you, does it?
This being a public forum, I thought joining a discussion and adding to it was the very idea of it?
Did I miss a "this is a private dialogue" flag? If so - sincere apologies.
I have no private discussions in the forum.

You were simply categorizing my reply to the OP and another member as somehow not contributing to the discussion which you wanted to have.

Keep having your discussion.

If you believe my contributions are not actually contributions to the topic, then you should use the "report," feature and have a moderator address it.
I joined this discussion, because I'm curious how GPS could work without satellites.
Can you provide any insight on that issue?

iC
Already did, in several spots.

Overall, I stated I believe trilateration and triangulation are at play, but not at the altitudes claimed for satellites.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2020, 04:32:42 PM by totallackey »
I didn't say (conversion of) thermal energy wasn't involved at all.
A rocket does not create thrust by converting thermal energy.

Re: How GPS Works and what about 64 satellites claimed by NASA
« Reply #97 on: February 24, 2020, 02:15:50 PM »
I was discussing visibility with another poster.
I don't think that really bothers you, does it?
This being a public forum, I thought joining a discussion and adding to it was the very idea of it?
Did I miss a "this is a private dialogue" flag? If so - sincere apologies.
I have no private discussions in the forum.

You were simply categorizing my reply to the OP and another member as somehow not contributing to the discussion which you wanted to have.

Keep having your discussion.

If you believe my contributions are not actually contributions to the topic, then you should use the "report," feature and have a moderator address it.
I joined this discussion, because I'm curious how GPS could work without satellites.
Can you provide any insight on that issue?

iC
Already did, in several spots.

Overall, I stated I believe transliteration and triangulation are at play, but not at the altitudes claimed for satellites.
You can believe that, but you are wrong. Clearly you have no details of an alternative explanation. 'are at play' is not enough.

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: How GPS Works and what about 64 satellites claimed by NASA
« Reply #98 on: February 24, 2020, 02:26:11 PM »
Transliteration - "the process of transferring a word from the alphabet of one language to another."

How does this relate to GPS?
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Re: How GPS Works and what about 64 satellites claimed by NASA
« Reply #99 on: February 24, 2020, 02:34:55 PM »
Transliteration - "the process of transferring a word from the alphabet of one language to another."

How does this relate to GPS?
He's obviously talking about trilateration, probably got autocorrected to oblivion. Please, try to use your brain every now and then.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we've already addressed it.
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