Offline ChrisTP

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Re: I'm a RE'r and have some questions!
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2020, 12:34:42 AM »
@iamcpc, NASA's budget is actually accounted for publicly and even if it weren't, there's not much money going into NASA and space travel from the government compared to other things. I don't think the US government need NASA to line their pockets. God knows the government already tax the hell out of us anyway.

I could understand the reason for keeping it secret that they bluffed going to the moon to show power against Russia, only to find they couldn't and thus keep the whole thing under wraps to save face, but I don't think the moon landings were faked so I don't think this is the case. Besides I think Russia would be the first to unravel the lies to the public if they discovered the US faked it all but Russia did the opposite of that by confirming it as truth.

I also don't think the bible should be taken so literally but that's more coming from my not so religious background. To each their own on that one but I don't take the bible as evidence of anything flat earth related, though if I end up in hell when I die for not believing it all, then I guess sucks to be me.
Tom is wrong most of the time. Hardly big news, don't you think?

Re: I'm a RE'r and have some questions!
« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2020, 12:08:37 AM »
I guess I'm not one to take the bible THAT literally. The truth in it pertains mainly to our relationships with ourselves, other people, and God, and providing guidance in these relationships is the primary purpose of the bible, not explaining physics or the history of the world. I don't think my faith is shattered if I don't take the bible literally. That's generally what cults try to do. They say, "if you don't believe X, then you lose your salvation". God isn't a cult leader, he's God.

This started out as humorous to me, but my attitude has evolved into frustration, because I am part of the group that would be trying to fool everyone. I work on aircraft that have technology, and this tech requires a round earth and round earth physics to function properly. I have friends that do too. I know the earth is round because I see the product of my work, and the planes I work on don't crash. Probably one of the most basic concepts is that the higher the altitude of an aircraft, the farther it travels across the same distance on the surface. This is because as elevation increases, the plane has a larger radius around the globe than a car would on the surface. My team and I must account for that issue. We have to determine the best possible altitude to balance this factor along with many others in order to get to point A to point B the fastest, and our models predict real life very VERY accurately.

It's like if you witnessed a murder and you know who the murderer was but the police think it was you instead and find convincing evidence for it. That's how I feel now. Started as a joke, but now...


« Last Edit: February 03, 2020, 12:23:27 AM by ImAnEngineerToo »

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Offline J-Man

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Re: I'm a RE'r and have some questions!
« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2020, 03:09:11 AM »
dear engineer, aluminum meets steel I-beams. aluminum wins and 3,000+ die. Thanks for the Bulshi !!!

You might want to burn that degree, it's a sham.
What kind of person would devote endless hours posting scientific facts trying to correct the few retards who believe in the FE? I slay shitty little demons.

Offline iamcpc

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Re: I'm a RE'r and have some questions!
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2020, 05:20:16 PM »
I guess I'm not one to take the bible THAT literally. The truth in it pertains mainly to our relationships with ourselves, other people, and God, and providing guidance in these relationships is the primary purpose of the bible, not explaining physics or the history of the world. I don't think my faith is shattered if I don't take the bible literally. That's generally what cults try to do. They say, "if you don't believe X, then you lose your salvation". God isn't a cult leader, he's God.

If you believe that the bible is the holy word of God it says, according to the holy word of God, that the earth does not move. It's not like it only says it once. It says it multiple times.  Many of the FE models are biblical/philosophical.

In the RE model we are an insignificant specks of stardust floating around in nothing.

In the biblical/philosophical FE models we are the center of the universe. We are significant. We matter.

This started out as humorous to me, but my attitude has evolved into frustration, because I am part of the group that would be trying to fool everyone.

Not everyone feels that way. You came her for alternate explanations about things which you were given.


I work on aircraft that have technology, and this tech requires a round earth and round earth physics to function properly. I have friends that do too. I know the earth is round because I see the product of my work, and the planes I work on don't crash. Probably one of the most basic concepts is that the higher the altitude of an aircraft, the farther it travels across the same distance on the surface. This is because as elevation increases, the plane has a larger radius around the globe than a car would on the surface. My team and I must account for that issue. We have to determine the best possible altitude to balance this factor along with many others in order to get to point A to point B the fastest, and our models predict real life very VERY accurately.

I'm sure that if you started a thread about this you would have a decent chance of being introduced to other possible explanations that were shape agnostic.


It's like if you witnessed a murder and you know who the murderer was but the police think it was you instead and find convincing evidence for it. That's how I feel now. Started as a joke, but now...


Sorry you feel that way.


dear engineer, aluminum meets steel I-beams. aluminum wins and 3,000+ die. Thanks for the Bulshi !!!

You might want to burn that degree, it's a sham.

Wrong forum man. Wrong forum.

Also it's super lame for you to call someones degree a sham.

« Last Edit: February 04, 2020, 05:25:02 PM by iamcpc »

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: I'm a RE'r and have some questions!
« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2020, 05:41:33 PM »
Wrong forum man. Wrong forum.

Also it's super lame for you to call someones degree a sham.
I'm inclined to agree (but iamcpc - please report posts that break the rules instead of just calling them out in-thread).

J-Man, please tone it down.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we've already addressed it.
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Re: I'm a RE'r and have some questions!
« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2020, 02:30:10 AM »
Was that a 9/11 reference J-Man? Engineers are actually pretty useful. You're welcome for the tall buildings and the cellphones. :)

In the biblical/philosophical FE models we are the center of the universe. We are significant. We matter.

I suppose I don't have a problem with being very insignificant and neither should anyone. In reality, we are all relatively insignificant, as we are one of several billion, and most of us will breath eat and die all the same. We source our "significance" from God and God alone, not the orientation in which our land is situated in the universe or "ether". The cosmos is a primary reason I believe in God. It's so beautiful, so vast, and upon studying how all of it works, the math for it is so undeniably engineered by a higher power. Realizing my insignificance is actually useful to me because it reminds me that my endeavors are relatively meaningless while Gods' are not.

If you believe that the bible is the holy word of God it says, according to the holy word of God, that the earth does not move. It's not like it only says it once. It says it multiple times.  Many of the FE models are biblical/philosophical.

I also believe these instances are a combination of your interpretation through whatever translation you're reading and also the interpretation of God's word, having limited scientific knowledge, of the people who wrote it. Like I said, the bible is only relevant in so far as to guide people in their relationships with themselves, others, and God... not to teach high school chemistry. I just find it very unlikely that A) the world is flat and B) the bible is teaching that world is flat. I can tell we are going to disagree on this point and that is okay, I don't believe this is a salvation issue.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2020, 02:38:33 AM by ImAnEngineerToo »

Groit

Re: I'm a RE'r and have some questions!
« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2020, 08:58:19 PM »
The cosmos is a primary reason I believe in God. It's so beautiful, so vast, and upon studying how all of it works, the math for it is so undeniably engineered by a higher power.

When we observe the universe by the naked eye or through telescopes etc it does indeed look very beautiful. However, from our current understanding of how the universe works, in reality, 99.999% of the universe is a very hostile place. Deadly radiation, cosmic rays, pulsars, quasars, neutron stars, black holes, gamma ray bursts and trillions of stars, with each star releasing energy equivalent to a million Hiroshima Bombs per second. The universe will evolve just the way it needs to and nothing will get in its way, we live in an unforgiving universe.

If all this is from a creator, then what does that say about the creator??   

Re: I'm a RE'r and have some questions!
« Reply #27 on: February 10, 2020, 11:49:16 PM »
If all this is from a creator, then what does that say about the creator??   

The missing premise to this if /then argument is:
“A good God wouldn’t create a deadly environment”
Or maybe it’s
“A good God wouldn’t create a vastly useless environment”
I’m not too sure which, if either, you’re trying to hint at. If it’s neither and does make for a good argument, please respond with it.

God made a sizable portion of earth rather deadly, hostile, and useless, didn’t he? For myself, I will not presuppose the kind of God I believe in initially and then view facts and evidence through that lense. If I come across new facts or evidence that I feel are proven or provable and it contradicts a presupposition I have of God, I’ll have to change what I think about God, not the other way around.

I think what this says about God is that he has an appreciation for art and beauty by design.

Re: I'm a RE'r and have some questions!
« Reply #28 on: February 11, 2020, 01:16:17 AM »
Apologies to iamcpc, I sort of got tunnel vision in responding I didn't address the verses from the bible you posted that you claim lays evidence that God told us the earth is flat. This is sort of an unsophisticated take on this, but I'll give it my best shot...

With the "(the earth) cannot be moved" statements in the bible, I take this to mean that nothing catastrophic will happen to the earth after creation and before the return. However even in its literal meaning, because of what we have established in the wiki with Einsteins general relativity, the earth could be considered an absolutely still object while everything else relative to it is moving and orbiting around it.

From Matthew 4:8, the world in those peoples' scope at the time was very small, and also which mountain? 2000 years ago, it's a safe assumption the highest mountains were the Himalayas, and even if the devil took him there, he wouldn't be able to see very far. That very tall mountain had to have been destroyed without evidence or record of its existence, or the devil had to have taken him very very high in the atmosphere, AND he would've had to see through the atmosphere, which I think I read in the wiki, is the reason we can't see as far as you'd expect from a high mountain. You pick which is more likely, or choose an alternate explanation. I pick that you're taking it too literally and that the "devil" if he really was there, took him to a tall foothill and looked over various local lands.

From Habakkuk 3:11, Only two of the things would have had to happen for the story to be true: the earth had to stop spinning and the moon would have had to stop revolving. The force of the Earth's spin would be immense but stopping it within, say a 12 hour period, would be 0.68m/s^2 at the equator. Deceleration would be linearly proportional to time taken if you think it was faster than that and want to calculate. Personally, I don't see, if God is all powerful, that God wouldn't be able to do this with the heliocentric model. For an allpowerful God, it would be just as easy to do this as it would to interrupt the normal function of however the FE model works.


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Offline TomInAustin

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Re: I'm a RE'r and have some questions!
« Reply #29 on: February 11, 2020, 07:08:06 PM »
@iamcpc, NASA's budget is actually accounted for publicly and even if it weren't, there's not much money going into NASA and space travel from the government compared to other things. I don't think the US government need NASA to line their pockets. God knows the government already tax the hell out of us anyway.

NASA was not lining pockets of their own but those of all the big defense contractors.  The big reason why Space X and other private outfits can go to space is they are not doing it on a cost-plus basis.  I understand the follow the money aspect of this, Apollo and the shuttle were hugely profitable from cost-plus contracts.  They had every incentive to run the costs up.   The new way to do it is that Space X and others are keeping the intellectual property and will be able to turn big profits the old fashioned way, providing a service.

It's going to be very hard to deny spaceflight after Space X puts up all the Starlink spacecraft as you will not be able to look at the night sky and not see them.
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Offline iamcpc

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Re: I'm a RE'r and have some questions!
« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2020, 06:39:52 PM »
Apologies to iamcpc, I sort of got tunnel vision in responding I didn't address the verses from the bible you posted that you claim lays evidence that God told us the earth is flat. This is sort of an unsophisticated take on this, but I'll give it my best shot...

With the "(the earth) cannot be moved" statements in the bible, I take this to mean that nothing catastrophic will happen to the earth after creation and before the return. However even in its literal meaning, because of what we have established in the wiki with Einsteins general relativity, the earth could be considered an absolutely still object while everything else relative to it is moving and orbiting around it.

Unfortunately the bible gives a lot of room for interpretation. Due to human conformation bias you are going to interpret a way which confirms your beliefs.

From Matthew 4:8, the world in those peoples' scope at the time was very small, and also which mountain? 2000 years ago, it's a safe assumption the highest mountains were the Himalayas, and even if the devil took him there, he wouldn't be able to see very far. That very tall mountain had to have been destroyed without evidence or record of its existence, or the devil had to have taken him very very high in the atmosphere, AND he would've had to see through the atmosphere, which I think I read in the wiki, is the reason we can't see as far as you'd expect from a high mountain. You pick which is more likely, or choose an alternate explanation. I pick that you're taking it too literally and that the "devil" if he really was there, took him to a tall foothill and looked over various local lands.

 If the Devil took him to a place in the upper stratosphere or even to a mountain which stretched all the way into outer space you would not be able to see the kingdoms on the opposite side of the world. If the earth was flat and the Devil took him to the upper stratosphere you could see every kingdom in the world.

From Habakkuk 3:11, Only two of the things would have had to happen for the story to be true: the earth had to stop spinning and the moon would have had to stop revolving. The force of the Earth's spin would be immense but stopping it within, say a 12 hour period, would be 0.68m/s^2 at the equator. Deceleration would be linearly proportional to time taken if you think it was faster than that and want to calculate. Personally, I don't see, if God is all powerful, that God wouldn't be able to do this with the heliocentric model. For an allpowerful God, it would be just as easy to do this as it would to interrupt the normal function of however the FE model works.

Ok i'll acknowledge your point. When the earth stopped spinning it did it over a period of time so we all didn't die in a 1000 MPH crash on the surface. This does not account for the fact that the earth also stopped orbiting the sun and the moon stopped orbiting the earth.

If the earth stopped orbiting the sun it would fall into the sun.
and we would go flying off of the planet.








If the moon stopped orbiting the earth the moon it would start accelerating twoard the earth and eventually fall into the earth.
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/if-the-moon-stopped-orbiting-the-earth.405198/
https://www.quora.com/What-will-happen-when-the-Moon-stops-rotating-around-the-earth

Based on measurements we know the opposite to be true. The moon is actually moving away from the earth.




We didn't go flying off of the planet. Earth didn't go crashing into the sun. The moon didn't come crashing into the earth. This is overwhelming evidence that the whole earth/moon/sun orbit system is wrong from a biblical perspective if the moon and sun stopped moving in the sky.


Something like this makes a lot more sense based on all of these passages. Notice how the sun and moon are the ones moving? If they stop moving we are unaffected on the earth.


« Last Edit: February 12, 2020, 06:43:22 PM by iamcpc »

Re: I'm a RE'r and have some questions!
« Reply #31 on: February 12, 2020, 07:48:22 PM »
Yes but it’s logically inconsistent to say that makes sense. Step 1 of Gods plan is to miraculously stop the earth and sun and moon from moving. No matter what model you believe in, that’s a miracle. Step 2 of Gods plan would be to maintain that position, which is also a miracle, if it happened. Why would you accept step 1 as a miracle but then try to explain away step 2 because “physics”? Like I said, if God were all powerful, he could just as easily override physics for that day as he could control the FE sun and moon.

Offline iamcpc

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Re: I'm a RE'r and have some questions!
« Reply #32 on: February 12, 2020, 09:51:35 PM »
Yes but it’s logically inconsistent to say that makes sense. Step 1 of Gods plan is to miraculously stop the earth and sun and moon from moving. No matter what model you believe in, that’s a miracle. Step 2 of Gods plan would be to maintain that position, which is also a miracle, if it happened. Why would you accept step 1 as a miracle but then try to explain away step 2 because “physics”? Like I said, if God were all powerful, he could just as easily override physics for that day as he could control the FE sun and moon.

There are two miracles here.

One which the earth (which according to the bible does not move) actually does spin and move meaning the bible is wrong, as well as moon all came to a screeching halt with no affects on the earth violating all of the current laws of physics, and gravity, etc based on the sphere earth system.

A second one (where the earth is still and the sun and the moon both stopped moving like the bible says)  which does not violate all of the laws of the universe and also does not contradict many other passages and verses i the bible.

You don't get to adhere to these laws which describe our universe when they support your view and outright ignore them when they weaken your view. That's the ultimate form of conformation bias. You must be at least open minded to the possibility that it's the system which is flawed and not the miracle.


Furthermore there are people who believe this is a parable. Kind of like the tortoise and the hair. If you are to take these verses literally about the Sun and the Moon suddenly coming to a screeching halt literally then you should also take the verses about the earth not moving literally. If the earth does not move then it does not orbit or rotate.



it happens again:

Joshua 10:13

And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.


This passage does not say the sun stood still, the earth stood still too, and the moon stayed. This passage VERY clearly indicates that the movement of the sun and the moon in the sky is because the sun and moon are the ones moving not the earth. This is backed up by the many many passages specifically saying the earth does not move. Even if one of those passages is interpreted as some sort of a metaphor or parable there are still several others which are not.



https://creationconcept.info/joshua.htm

If Joshua was led to order the earth to stop its rotation by the Spirit of God, would he command the sun and the moon to stand still, or earth? (It is the earth that rotates, after all.) And what point would there be to making the moon stand still? How could that help the Israelites to punish the Amorites?
« Last Edit: February 12, 2020, 10:04:36 PM by iamcpc »

Re: I'm a RE'r and have some questions!
« Reply #33 on: February 13, 2020, 12:10:33 AM »
I understand I'm no expert in anything I talk about on this forum, I'm just good at math and engineering and find it interesting people's views differ so much from my own. I think there's a chance I'm wrong, but I also think the likelihood the earth is flat is very low. What do I know though is that I will always be an ignorant child in the eyes of the omnipotent God.

My point earlier was, God could say "Earth moon and sun, halt, but with no adverse affects." And just like we command dogs, space-time and matter will bend to Gods will. It doesn't matter that physics doesn't follow up intuitively to the actions of halting the sun, moon or earth because God owns physics. Also so that we are on the same page, I don't personally believe this event even happened, but I'm just trying to play in your field, not mine.

I'd love to discuss those verses in another thread because I think we'll get into the weeds a little bit with theology. I will respond though to your points: I think the bible is a spiritual book and is in regards to our relationships with ourselves, people, and God, and nothing else. God is saying this so the people at the time and laymen from everywhere at every time period would understand. It's not relevant to the story to say it technically correct because the bible sources its relevance from fulfilling the aforementioned purposes, not those of a high school textbook. I didn't say the miracle was flawed, just that the miracle would have to take care of a large number of complexities that are simply not mentioned in the text.


Offline iamcpc

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Re: I'm a RE'r and have some questions!
« Reply #34 on: February 13, 2020, 07:43:12 PM »
I understand I'm no expert in anything I talk about on this forum, I'm just good at math and engineering and find it interesting people's views differ so much from my own. I think there's a chance I'm wrong, but I also think the likelihood the earth is flat is very low. What do I know though is that I will always be an ignorant child in the eyes of the omnipotent God.

Just like the likelihood that all of the fundamental laws of our universe That God took 7 days to develop were stopped for a day then restarted with no evidence the event really happened is very low. It all likelihood that is a more likely a parable or poetic story where the moral of the story is God is super powerful, Follow the teachings of God, God is a good person to have in your corner etc.

Just like in the story of the tortoise and the hair there was not a real talking rabbit and a real talking turtle who had a real footrace. It's a parable where the moral of the story is don't quit while your ahead, don't be too cocky, slow and steady wins the race, it's not over till it's over etc.

Numbers 24:8
God brought him forth out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn:

Just like I don't believe there are unicorns. This is some poetic, metaphor, or imagery etc.

My point earlier was, God could say "Earth moon and sun, halt, but with no adverse affects." And just like we command dogs, space-time and matter will bend to Gods will. It doesn't matter that physics doesn't follow up intuitively to the actions of halting the sun, moon or earth because God owns physics. Also so that we are on the same page, I don't personally believe this event even happened, but I'm just trying to play in your field, not mine.

Again God took time to create the universe according to Genesis. God had to rest. Why did God have to rest. Why did it take him so long to create the universe? The God you are talking about would have created the universe outside of our pathetic human perceptions of time and would have needed no rest.


This is another verse which supports the idea that your view of God and the biblical view of God are different. Your God could drive out inhabitants even if they had chariots of reinforced steel.

Judges 1:19

And the Lord was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.


I'd love to discuss those verses in another thread because I think we'll get into the weeds a little bit with theology. I will respond though to your points: I think the bible is a spiritual book and is in regards to our relationships with ourselves, people, and God, and nothing else. God is saying this so the people at the time and laymen from everywhere at every time period would understand. It's not relevant to the story to say it technically correct because the bible sources its relevance from fulfilling the aforementioned purposes, not those of a high school textbook. I didn't say the miracle was flawed, just that the miracle would have to take care of a large number of complexities that are simply not mentioned in the text.

I think the bible is the word of God if you temper it with both logic and reason. People get swallowed by whales and survive in fantasy books and movies not in reality.




Without that we would have irrefutable holy proof that the earth does not move and can only be flat to account for the movement we see in the sun and moon.

Without that we would have laws sentencing people to death for doing the dishes on Saturday because it's the holy ruling of God, from God himself, that doing chores on the sabbath day should be punished by brutally and violently murdering the offender:

Numbers 15:32-36
32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.

33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.

34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.

35 And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.

36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses.



The God that I worship would never order someone be brutally murdered for cleaning up their lawn on Saturday. The God that I worship (and the version of God that you describe) is so far beyond our chore schedule to assume that he was that petty would be a horrible insult to God.

« Last Edit: February 13, 2020, 07:46:16 PM by iamcpc »

Re: I'm a RE'r and have some questions!
« Reply #35 on: February 13, 2020, 09:54:32 PM »
I really appreciate the effort you put into your posts iamcpc, thank you.

Let me get this straight because your post was 10% convoluted for me. You do not take everything in the Bible to be historically/factually correct? You reference the story in Numbers and you say you wouldn’t believe in a God that would order such a thing for such a reason, so therefor since you believe in the god the Bible speaks of, then the story mustn’t be true? Just trying to understand your position and that of RErs in general.

Offline iamcpc

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Re: I'm a RE'r and have some questions!
« Reply #36 on: February 13, 2020, 11:17:01 PM »
I really appreciate the effort you put into your posts iamcpc, thank you.

Let me get this straight because your post was 10% convoluted for me. You do not take everything in the Bible to be historically/factually correct?

It's my belief that there are parables, similes, poetic verses and metaphors which were in no way, shape, or form intended to be taken literally in modern society.

You reference the story in Numbers and you say you wouldn’t believe in a God that would order such a thing for such a reason, so therefor since you believe in the god the Bible speaks of, then the story mustn’t be true?

It's my belief that there are parables, similes, poetic verses and metaphors which were in no way, shape, or form intended to be taken literally in modern society. Things like parables/similes/metaphors and poems are not really able to be true or false.



Metaphor example:

Proverbs 13:14
The teaching of the wise is a fountain of life.

Teaching is a fountain? A verb can't really be a noun. I believe this is not meant to be taken literally I believe this is meant to be taken figuratively.




Simile example:
Matthew 13:44
“The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field.”

Is the heaven really like a 20 dollar bill you find in a grassy area? No. This is not meant to be taken literally. This is a simile.


parable example

Numbers 15:32-36
And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses.


I believe that this is something similar to the story of the tortoise and the hare. I'm sure you heard of it. The moral of the story is _______.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2020, 11:18:59 PM by iamcpc »

Re: I'm a RE'r and have some questions!
« Reply #37 on: February 14, 2020, 08:09:44 AM »
Joshua 10:13

And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

This passage does not say the sun stood still, the earth stood still too, and the moon stayed. This passage VERY clearly indicates that the movement of the sun and the moon in the sky is because the sun and moon are the ones moving not the earth. This is backed up by the many many passages specifically saying the earth does not move. Even if one of those passages is interpreted as some sort of a metaphor or parable there are still several others which are not.

How can the movement be only in the sky if it's written that the sun "hasted not to go down"? I know it's difficult or nearly impossible to universally interpret the Bible, but it clearly states in many passages that the sunset is created out of a downward movement of the sun.
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these waves of smug RE'ers are temporary. Every now and then they flood us for a year or two in response to some media attention, and eventually they peter out. In my view, it's a case of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

Re: I'm a RE'r and have some questions!
« Reply #38 on: February 14, 2020, 10:39:33 PM »
What if you were standing on your head, wouldn't the movement be upwards for a sunset? God takes into account the general perspective of the reader. From our view, it's true the sun moves downward as it sets, that is our reality, but it's a relative reality and can change depending on your perspective. Besides, if you consider the earth as the center of the universe and is perfectly still and everything revolves around it, besides that being absurd, it's valid in relativity. If that floats your boat, then think of it that way.

I'm on board with you iamcpc. So in your opinion, what do you make of the verses that support the flat earth? Do you think there could be an argument that makes those verses out to be intended to be for a different reason than informing of the nature of the earths shape?
« Last Edit: February 14, 2020, 10:41:16 PM by ImAnEngineerToo »

Offline iamcpc

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Re: I'm a RE'r and have some questions!
« Reply #39 on: February 14, 2020, 11:07:24 PM »
What if you were standing on your head, wouldn't the movement be upwards for a sunset? God takes into account the general perspective of the reader. From our view, it's true the sun moves downward as it sets, that is our reality, but it's a relative reality and can change depending on your perspective.

That's definitely one way to interpret it. I think it's just as easy to interpret it as saying it is the sun, and not the earth, which moves. Usually you can look at other verses in other chapters to help determine how you chose to interpret the passages. If you do so keep in mine there are like half a dozen other verses which, very clearly, say the earth does not move. Now after reading a half dozen times that the earth does not move in the bible and reading this verse about how the sun stopped moving then it becomes more lopsided.

Besides, if you consider the earth as the center of the universe and is perfectly still and everything revolves around it, besides that being absurd, it's valid in relativity.

I think in the more biblical models nothing revolves around the earth. I think everything is above the earth.


I have a post which have come up with various biblical interpretations but they all are kind of similar to this

I don't really understand what the firmament is but basically the entire universe is above the earth.


I'm on board with you iamcpc. So in your opinion, what do you make of the verses that support the flat earth?

I think that taking the 2000 year old bible literally, without tempering it with both modern logic, and modern reason is incredibly toxic and harmful to the human race and the planet we live on.

Do you think there could be an argument that makes those verses out to be intended to be for a different reason than informing of the nature of the earths shape?

I can see both sides. But when the bible says, over and over and over something to the effect of "The earth does not move" or  "the earth can't move" I can easily see why that, in conjunction with several other verses (and a failure to temper those verses with modern logic and modern reason), could lead someone to believe the earth is flat.

In my personal FE model the earth rotates on an axis which creates the day/night cycle, the moon orbits the earth, and the moon/earth combination orbits the sun which is the center of our solar system.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2020, 11:15:03 PM by iamcpc »