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Offline JSS

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Re: More fake moon landing proof.
« Reply #620 on: May 11, 2020, 01:31:35 AM »
Meanwhile the other two guys claim to see stars, planets, moons and even the Magellanic clouds during the day pretty much all the time. Are you seeing the contradiction now? Either these two guys are lying, or the other one, or all of them.

Well we have gone in circles here, I've told you how to test looking out windows in different conditions. I see no contradictions, I see you taking some quotes literally and seeing lies and conspiracies. Try looking out your windows tonight and see how it looks compared to the day. There is no contradiction.

Pretty much all the time, as in pretty much all the time during the day when they're looking away from Earth into deep space (since that was the question). Whereas based on the above, I think you can agree that Leroy Chiao didn't say that deep space is the darkest black simply because sometimes he was blinded by interior lighting. They contradict one another in a profound way that cannot be explained away.

Again that's what you hear, taking descriptive quotes and taking them 100% literally to try and find contradictions that don't exist.  It's not what I see, it's not what most of the world sees.

Interesting that you mention the JPL. Did you know that one of its founders (Jack Parsons) was an occultist who worshipped the devil, and that he was friend with L. Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology? They performed rituals together. https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2000-mar-19-me-10501-story.html

Did you know that high-ranking Nazis involved in war crimes went on to work for NASA? One of them was Wernher von Braun, who became director of the largest NASA center and worked on the Apollo program. https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/tv/a31067396/hunters-amazon-nazi-nasa-true-story/

More recently, at least 8 NASA employees were caught buying child pornography. Their names have been kept secret and they weren't prosecuted. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3184951/NASA-employees-caught-buying-child-porn-site-showed-three-year-olds-abused-escape-prosecution-names-kept-secret.html

Now I'm not saying that all people working for the JPL or NASA are evil. I'm sure there are plenty of fine people there who sincerely believe they are working for the greater good, unaware of what's really going on behind the scenes. But I think you can agree there is some shady stuff going on over there. In itself that doesn't prove all the conspiracy theories about NASA are true. But it's an incentive to look more seriously into them.

Ah, no, that's not incentive to look closely at anything. I'm not even going to bother looking up what the founder did or didn't do of if any of those accusations are even true or just rumor. You can believe NASA and JPL is working for the devil and abusing children but you can dig up bad things about employees working for any large corporation.  I'm supposed to be shocked that out of 10,000 people, some of them did bad things?

Not proof of anything, certainly not proof that NASA is run by the devil.  It's run by Jim Bridenstine, appointed by Trump.

I'm just guessing at NASA, but the point still stands.  You see a great evil in the world, and it colors your views of everything you see.  I don't see a great evil conspiracy, so my views are different.

What's an example of a proven true conspiracy on the scale of NASA and other space agencies and dozens of governments hiding the shape of the planet from the whole worlds for thousands of years?

I see a lot of good in the world but I also see a great evil indeed. This would be the biggest proven conspiracy if it were proven to be true, but let's not focus on flat Earth right now, step by step.

As examples of proven conspiracies on a large scale, we have the mass surveillance programs of intelligence agencies conspiring with big tech companies to monitor all electronic communications (not so long ago one used to be seen as a nutjob for believing in such a thing).
We have the Gulf of Tonkin incident, in which the US government lied to start a war with Vietnam.
We have the mind control project MKULTRA of the CIA, involving illegal human experimentation (torture in various forms).

The best list of proven conspiracies I have found is this one : https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/wiki/lopc . If you go through the list it paints quite a bleak picture indeed. It is evidence of evil on a large scale that we aren't aware of or that we choose to ignore.

I've read about a lot of those, and yeah humans have done terrible things. There is evil. But there is good, and to me, NASA is one of the good guys. Pushing the frontiers of human knowledge, providing stunning, awe inspiring pictures of our glorious solar system and the even more breathtaking universe all around us.

Bravely risking their lives to do it.

Even as people call them frauds and liars. That has to sting.

( BTW, I'm impressed you are quoting everything so precisely. I'm really struggling keeping from making formatting mistakes at this point. )

Well, if you can tell I'm not an idiot that can be one more incentive to look more seriously into the evidence against the moon landings, for starters. There is the widespread belief that people who believe these conspiracies are real are nutjobs, but that's not the truth, there are well-educated people who have looked into them and who can tell that something is amiss. I also believe that many people who are otherwise not highly educated have a sixth sense for bullshit, they aren't able to explain the thought process that led them to see that they are being bullshitted but they see it clear as day, whereas highly educated individuals tend to be more trusting of authorities, since a great part of education involves believing and accepting what the authority (teacher) says.

A sixth sense for bullshit doesn't sound very scientific or reliable to me.

I still haven't seen a single piece of evidence that even slightly confuses me. It all looks perfectly natural to me, all makes sense. All fits in with everything I know about the world.

I've seen the ISS with my own eyes.  I've taken pictures of it, good enough to make out the solar panels. I've watched how fast it moved, I've seen it show up exactly, to the SECOND where it should be, EXACTLY on target as predicted days in advance. I've got pictures 3000 miles apart I took as I traveled. I've seen solar eclipses, I've seen lunar eclipses, I watched the transit of Venus across the sun with my own eyes. I've seen Jupiter and it's moons, other planets, nebula.

Never once did anything not look exactly like NASA shows.

If the ISS is fake I have no idea how they are doing it. It's always where it should be as it orbits. I refuse to believe they put a fake one up there every time *I* personally decide to take a picture of it.

It's just not credible to me that the moon landings and space shuttle and the ISS is fake.  And I am sorry but you do sound like one of those people when you accuse astronauts that risk their lives every day of lying because they don't describe looking out a window the same way. You are clearly intelligent, but I see a very strong bias here. It's not my place to question why, but I can tell you how it looks to me.

Re: More fake moon landing proof.
« Reply #621 on: May 11, 2020, 02:59:49 AM »
Meanwhile the other two guys claim to see stars, planets, moons and even the Magellanic clouds during the day pretty much all the time. Are you seeing the contradiction now? Either these two guys are lying, or the other one, or all of them.

Well we have gone in circles here, I've told you how to test looking out windows in different conditions. I see no contradictions, I see you taking some quotes literally and seeing lies and conspiracies. Try looking out your windows tonight and see how it looks compared to the day. There is no contradiction.

Pretty much all the time, as in pretty much all the time during the day when they're looking away from Earth into deep space (since that was the question). Whereas based on the above, I think you can agree that Leroy Chiao didn't say that deep space is the darkest black simply because sometimes he was blinded by interior lighting. They contradict one another in a profound way that cannot be explained away.

Again that's what you hear, taking descriptive quotes and taking them 100% literally to try and find contradictions that don't exist.  It's not what I see, it's not what most of the world sees.

Interesting that you mention the JPL. Did you know that one of its founders (Jack Parsons) was an occultist who worshipped the devil, and that he was friend with L. Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology? They performed rituals together. https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2000-mar-19-me-10501-story.html

Did you know that high-ranking Nazis involved in war crimes went on to work for NASA? One of them was Wernher von Braun, who became director of the largest NASA center and worked on the Apollo program. https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/tv/a31067396/hunters-amazon-nazi-nasa-true-story/

More recently, at least 8 NASA employees were caught buying child pornography. Their names have been kept secret and they weren't prosecuted. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3184951/NASA-employees-caught-buying-child-porn-site-showed-three-year-olds-abused-escape-prosecution-names-kept-secret.html

Now I'm not saying that all people working for the JPL or NASA are evil. I'm sure there are plenty of fine people there who sincerely believe they are working for the greater good, unaware of what's really going on behind the scenes. But I think you can agree there is some shady stuff going on over there. In itself that doesn't prove all the conspiracy theories about NASA are true. But it's an incentive to look more seriously into them.

Ah, no, that's not incentive to look closely at anything. I'm not even going to bother looking up what the founder did or didn't do of if any of those accusations are even true or just rumor. You can believe NASA and JPL is working for the devil and abusing children but you can dig up bad things about employees working for any large corporation.  I'm supposed to be shocked that out of 10,000 people, some of them did bad things?

Not proof of anything, certainly not proof that NASA is run by the devil.  It's run by Jim Bridenstine, appointed by Trump.

I'm just guessing at NASA, but the point still stands.  You see a great evil in the world, and it colors your views of everything you see.  I don't see a great evil conspiracy, so my views are different.

What's an example of a proven true conspiracy on the scale of NASA and other space agencies and dozens of governments hiding the shape of the planet from the whole worlds for thousands of years?

I see a lot of good in the world but I also see a great evil indeed. This would be the biggest proven conspiracy if it were proven to be true, but let's not focus on flat Earth right now, step by step.

As examples of proven conspiracies on a large scale, we have the mass surveillance programs of intelligence agencies conspiring with big tech companies to monitor all electronic communications (not so long ago one used to be seen as a nutjob for believing in such a thing).
We have the Gulf of Tonkin incident, in which the US government lied to start a war with Vietnam.
We have the mind control project MKULTRA of the CIA, involving illegal human experimentation (torture in various forms).

The best list of proven conspiracies I have found is this one : https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/wiki/lopc . If you go through the list it paints quite a bleak picture indeed. It is evidence of evil on a large scale that we aren't aware of or that we choose to ignore.

I've read about a lot of those, and yeah humans have done terrible things. There is evil. But there is good, and to me, NASA is one of the good guys. Pushing the frontiers of human knowledge, providing stunning, awe inspiring pictures of our glorious solar system and the even more breathtaking universe all around us.

Bravely risking their lives to do it.

Even as people call them frauds and liars. That has to sting.

( BTW, I'm impressed you are quoting everything so precisely. I'm really struggling keeping from making formatting mistakes at this point. )

Well, if you can tell I'm not an idiot that can be one more incentive to look more seriously into the evidence against the moon landings, for starters. There is the widespread belief that people who believe these conspiracies are real are nutjobs, but that's not the truth, there are well-educated people who have looked into them and who can tell that something is amiss. I also believe that many people who are otherwise not highly educated have a sixth sense for bullshit, they aren't able to explain the thought process that led them to see that they are being bullshitted but they see it clear as day, whereas highly educated individuals tend to be more trusting of authorities, since a great part of education involves believing and accepting what the authority (teacher) says.

A sixth sense for bullshit doesn't sound very scientific or reliable to me.

I still haven't seen a single piece of evidence that even slightly confuses me. It all looks perfectly natural to me, all makes sense. All fits in with everything I know about the world.

I've seen the ISS with my own eyes.  I've taken pictures of it, good enough to make out the solar panels. I've watched how fast it moved, I've seen it show up exactly, to the SECOND where it should be, EXACTLY on target as predicted days in advance. I've got pictures 3000 miles apart I took as I traveled. I've seen solar eclipses, I've seen lunar eclipses, I watched the transit of Venus across the sun with my own eyes. I've seen Jupiter and it's moons, other planets, nebula.

Never once did anything not look exactly like NASA shows.

If the ISS is fake I have no idea how they are doing it. It's always where it should be as it orbits. I refuse to believe they put a fake one up there every time *I* personally decide to take a picture of it.

It's just not credible to me that the moon landings and space shuttle and the ISS is fake.  And I am sorry but you do sound like one of those people when you accuse astronauts that risk their lives every day of lying because they don't describe looking out a window the same way. You are clearly intelligent, but I see a very strong bias here. It's not my place to question why, but I can tell you how it looks to me.

The issue is no matter what evidence I come up with it won’t get through to you. Think about it, what evidence could convince you? Or even slightly confuse you? If some astronaut says something that contradicts the official story, you will say that he didn’t mean it literally, or that he had a lapse of judgment. If you see something in a picture or video that shouldn’t be possible, you will say it must be some artefact, or that it’s possible. If one day the ISS doesn’t show up where it’s supposed to and then NASA comes up with the statement that it was due to peculiar atmospheric conditions or something, you will believe them. Seriously, try to think of one piece of evidence that would even begin to slightly confuse you. If you can’t think of any then you’ve already made up your mind no matter what.

Leroy Chiao has spent 36 hours on spacewalks, 229 days in space, he says again and again that deep space is the darkest black you can imagine during the day! That’s not a matter of internal lighting! The two other astronauts say they see stars, planets, moons and the Magellanic clouds during the day! How else do you want to interpret what they say? This has nothing to do with looking out the window during the day and during the night, here they’re all clearly talking about during the day, they mention it repeatedly.


I cannot make you accept what I’m saying here. I can only show you the way, then it’s up to you to see where it leads. Why do you think I wanted to be an astrophysicist and I became a space engineer? Because I was passionate about space, the beautiful pictures, the mysteries, the unknown left to be discovered and explored. Because I wanted to understand where we are, where we come from, where we are going. Because I wanted to find the truth. I trusted the mainstream story for so long. But progressively I woke up to the lies, more and more. I know it’s too hard to take it all at once. It took me many years to wake up.

When you get the time, watch the documentary American Moon from start to finish, going into it with an open mind, not believing that the guy who made the documentary is your enemy but that he is also honestly looking for the truth, and pointing out things that don’t make sense. Maybe if you watch the whole video there is one piece of evidence in there that will slightly confuse you and help you see things that you’re not seeing yet.

Offline ChrisTP

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Re: More fake moon landing proof.
« Reply #622 on: May 11, 2020, 12:14:42 PM »
Quote
The issue is no matter what evidence I come up with it won’t get through to you. Think about it, what evidence could convince you?
Thing is you've been given perfectly plausible explanations for things here (multiple times in some cases) and it seems that's just not what you want to hear. After I went through those timestamps in the videos I asked if you could provide something that is not possible to refute and you've seemingly ignored that? You seem fixated on the astronauts not seeing/seeing stars thing and both myself and JSS have given an answer to that, an answer you can test as well so you don't even need to take our word for it.
Tom is wrong most of the time. Hardly big news, don't you think?

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Offline JSS

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Re: More fake moon landing proof.
« Reply #623 on: May 11, 2020, 12:20:45 PM »
The issue is no matter what evidence I come up with it won’t get through to you. Think about it, what evidence could convince you? Or even slightly confuse you? If some astronaut says something that contradicts the official story, you will say that he didn’t mean it literally, or that he had a lapse of judgment. If you see something in a picture or video that shouldn’t be possible, you will say it must be some artefact, or that it’s possible. If one day the ISS doesn’t show up where it’s supposed to and then NASA comes up with the statement that it was due to peculiar atmospheric conditions or something, you will believe them. Seriously, try to think of one piece of evidence that would even begin to slightly confuse you. If you can’t think of any then you’ve already made up your mind no matter what.

You are making assumptions about me that are simply incorrect.  I can answer two of your statements above at once!

What evidence would convince me something is wrong? The ISS suddenly being in a different orbit than it should. That would do it. It can only make very small adjustments and atmospheric effects are also slow and long term. If it suddenly was 5 minutes late or was thousands of miles off course or going in the wrong direction or significantly off in any other factor that would be a MAJOR problem.

If I saw that, I'd be very very confused, as would everyone else who watches it and NASA simply handwaving it wouldn't fly. That would make me doubt.

And again, you haven't provided me with any evidence astronauts are lying. You haven't shown me any video evidence I can't easily explain. I've said it again and again, different windows, lighting, orbit positions, nigh vision adaptation, what they are focusing on... stuff looks different in different situations and I don't expect them to all describe it at once. If one of them says "I always love being in space" I wouldn't think he's a lying bastard because using the toilet can't be all that fun. No, I just don't take him LITERALLY when he;s describing stuff like that.  You can pick apart the equivalent of saying "I see cool stuff all the time!" but it's just not convincing to me.

And I understand with my own experience how looking at bright and dim objects work. Even at the same time, in the same room of the ISS there will be things you can see and things you can't depending on your position and your eye adjustments and where you are looking from. I can't take a picture that shows details of the moons craters in sunlight and background stars at the same time. Human eyes are great but even they have limits when it comes to dynamic range.

Can you answer the same question? What one piece of evidence would it take to convince you that the ISS is real and in orbit?

When you get the time, watch the documentary American Moon from start to finish, going into it with an open mind, not believing that the guy who made the documentary is your enemy but that he is also honestly looking for the truth, and pointing out things that don’t make sense. Maybe if you watch the whole video there is one piece of evidence in there that will slightly confuse you and help you see things that you’re not seeing yet.

Again you make assumptions about me.  I don't consider that guy my enemy, or you. I'm not part of an evil conspiracy, I'm not trying to deceive you.

What would I do if I saw one thing in that three hour video I couldn't explain? Not much, because I have a million bits of evidence that tells me that the world I know and understand is reality.

If I saw one thing that confused me, and a million that proved otherwise, I would conclude... that I couldn't understand that one thing. We are all human. We can't know everything, and being confused does not mean a worldwide thousand year old evil conspiracy.

I think we simply have very different personalities. You see a loose thread, and want to pull it and unravel a vast conspiracy. I see a thread and just see, a loose thread.

Also, I posted a second reply yesterday with a lot details on your videos, in case you missed it. I'd like to hear your responses to my observations.