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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #20 on: December 27, 2019, 08:37:11 PM »
“How DARE they try and represent a homosexual couple!!!! It should have been two white people because I know what they were thinking and it was obviously dishonest.“

-Saddam, Obviously

How the fuck are you supposed to progress to a world where these moments are second nature if you don’t consciously introduce them first?

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Offline honk

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Re: Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #21 on: December 28, 2019, 02:11:30 AM »
“How DARE they try and represent a homosexual couple!!!! It should have been two white people because I know what they were thinking and it was obviously dishonest.“

-Saddam, Obviously

???

Quote
How the fuck are you supposed to progress to a world where these moments are second nature if you don’t consciously introduce them first?

???

You seem to be having an argument with someone who hasn't posted in this thread.
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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #22 on: December 28, 2019, 04:35:00 AM »
“How DARE they try and represent a homosexual couple!!!! It should have been two white people because I know what they were thinking and it was obviously dishonest.“

-Saddam, Obviously

???

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How the fuck are you supposed to progress to a world where these moments are second nature if you don’t consciously introduce them first?

???

You seem to be having an argument with someone who hasn't posted in this thread.

Nope. That was directed at your silliness for criticizing JJ Abrams for doing the right thing but in the “wrong way”. It’s pretty asinine.

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Offline honk

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Re: Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #23 on: December 28, 2019, 05:31:19 AM »
Okay, I'm still grasping for the relevance of your random comments on white people or whatever to my post. And Abrams - or whatever faceless committee conceived that moment - were not trying to do the right thing. They were trying to score points for being woke while also catering to homophobic institutions by ensuring the gayness was confined to one tiny moment that could easily be censored without consequence. This is far from the first time this has happened, and it's not a coincidence that so many blockbusters lately been "representing" gay people by putting them into a minuscule moment, usually in the background, that's of no real consequence to the story. They're doing it to accommodate Chinese censors, or ideally to not offend their sensibilities in the first place. Being pro-gay rights but only to the extent that China is willing to tolerate is not a laudable stance to me.
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Offline crutonius

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Re: Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #24 on: December 28, 2019, 09:27:52 AM »
I do admit that at first I disliked this movie.

However upon further reflection, I've come to appreciate the genius of the movie.  It's designed to both sell toys and be easily marketable in China.

So don't think of it as a "movie" that's supposed to be "entertaining".  That's only going to lead to an unpleasant experience, much like watching 2 hours of gibberish.  Think of it more like marketing material combined with a timeshare sales pitch.  If you see it this way and start crunching numbers like overseas gross ticket sales and who owns the rights to the merchandising sales I think you'll appreciate this movie more.  It'll make a lot more sense. 

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Offline honk

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Re: Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #25 on: December 28, 2019, 09:04:36 PM »
Yeah, it really takes genius to make a blockbuster that lends itself easily to heavy merchandising and appeals to Chinese audiences. It's not like we get a dozen or so of those movies every year, and it's certainly not like any of them ever turn out to be good. Quality and profitability are simply mutually incompatible.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2020, 04:23:43 AM by honk »
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Offline junker

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Re: Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #26 on: December 28, 2019, 09:45:47 PM »
Apparently Poe wanted him and Finn to be sweet gay lovers in this trilogy but Disney cockblocked it.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #27 on: December 29, 2019, 01:54:19 AM »
Apparently Poe wanted him and Finn to be sweet gay lovers in this trilogy but Disney cockblocked it.

That’s what virtue signaling capitalists do. Cock block a motherfucker.

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Offline Снупс

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Re: Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #28 on: January 01, 2020, 10:49:47 PM »
I more or less agree with everything Saddam has said, which is a very strange feeling to have. I went in with pretty low expectations to just have a visually-pleasing, toothless spectacle, but it was actually pretty bad IMO. Palpatine's resurrection and main villainry (complete with hanging from the live-action Animus and just going "rahh" with his fingers a few times) was such a safe, predictable, bland, cop-out choice for a climax. As was the "I am your grandfather" twist. It really does feel like a twist for the sake of having a twist, and all I could think of when I realized what it was going to be (as soon as Palpatine said "she's not who you think she is") was Spaceballs' "I am your father’s brother’s nephew’s cousin’s former roommate" scene. Rey's parents literally being unimportant was so refreshing to me, the idea that the Force doesn't just follow a few specific bloodlines religiously. But Abrams, much like Shyamalan, just can't resist a twist.

I was at least hoping for some entertaining choreography, but even most of the fight scenes were cuts every second or two and flailing lightsabers with the occasional spin or flip, nothing that great. I know the prequels kind of killed that sort of fight, since the original trilogy's bushido-based(?) fights were usually pretty good, but after a few actually visually interesting skirmishes in The Last Jedi I had a new hope. Alas.

The time gimmick of the film (they're going to launch in 15 hours!!!) made me roll my eyes the second it was out of Poe's mouth, as I was just lamenting earlier the forced breakneck pace of many adventure and action films, all the dumb time-limit stakes (made me think of Spider-Man: "Watch this, he's gonna say 'you've got 24 hours'" Fisk: "You've got 24 hours!"), and all the tension was dissipated—for me, at least—on the first fake-out death with Chewie and made me realize, oh, even though this is the final film of the trilogy trilogy we're probably only going to lose a side character and Kylo, since I was pretty confident they'd kill him off the second he redeemed himself because, again, Abrams is the "can I copy your homework?" "sure just change a few words so it's not obvious" of directors/writers. A bit hyperbolic, obviously, but not as much as I'd like.

I was kind of sad they didn't take the Finn/Poe route because they genuinely had that kind of chemistry on-screen. Rey/Kylo was expected because they're both main characters of opposite genders, not that it mattered for long. The most interesting thing between them was the extreme "Force dyad" connection between them that Rian introduced. When they battled via Force connection I thought that was fantastic, and the Chekhov's gun cleverness of the lightsaber swap. I enjoyed the epic scope of some of the shots, they did a pretty good job of really emphasizing the vastness of the universe and worlds in certain scenes. The music was mostly good. I'm sure there are a few other things I enjoyed but nothing else is immediately coming to mind.

I could go on with what I didn't like, but I feel three paragraphs is enough for now. It had a few entertaining parts but for the most part I thought it was pretty bad. I'm okay with the 5/10 reviews it's been getting, though I feel more inclined towards 4. It's pretty clear this saga (with the exception of VIII) was not made for me, but as someone who grew up with the series it sucks that this janky-ass unimaginative final film is the conclusion we get. I'm curious what Lucas' final trilogy would have looked like now.
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Re: Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #29 on: January 02, 2020, 01:36:02 PM »
I liked it. None of it makes much sense of course or stands up to scrutiny.
"Oh, he just crashed his spaceship at high speed, he's definitely dead...oh, no, he's fine. Oh, now he's been thrown off a cliff, that's the end of...oh, no, he's fine again". And of course they just happen to land at the exact right spot on an entire sodding planet to meet the people they need to.
ScreenRant points out all these things in a very amusing way (contains spoilers, obviously):



But you could probably do that for any of the films in the series. If you don't think about it too hard it's enjoyable enough, has lots of references for the fans and wraps up the main series of films nicely.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

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Offline honk

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Re: Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #30 on: April 05, 2020, 11:10:54 PM »
https://www.businessinsider.sg/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-concept-art-2020-3

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“I’ve never rewritten a film as much as this one,” said Terrio. “It’s like a tide. There’s a new script every morning. But we just keep going at it and going at it, loosely thinking that it’s not good enough. It’s never good enough.”

On the one hand, yes, he's right that it wasn't good enough. But what's more interesting here is how much rewriting there apparently was. This movie did not have an especially ambitious or challenging script. It aims squarely at Saturday morning cartoon-style writing with a cheesy chase-the-MacGuffin plot. That's not unprecedented in SW movies, of course, although I'd argue that the final film in a trilogy should be more about theme and character than plot, let alone such a simplistic, archetypal go-here-and-do-the-thing plot. So what were all the rewrites for? More pandering and fanservice?

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“We’re course-correcting as we go – we’re trying things, and some things don’t work and some things aren’t ambitious enough. Some things are overly ambitious. Some things are too dense. Some things are too simple. Some things are too nostalgic. Some things are too out-of-left-field.”

I agree with most of this, the only exception being the idea that some things were too ambitious. It's nice when the screenwriter takes the time to point out all the things wrong with his movie so nobody else has to.
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Offline JRowe

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Re: Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #31 on: April 09, 2020, 10:31:45 PM »
I'd argue that the final film in a trilogy should be more about theme and character than plot, let alone such a simplistic, archetypal go-here-and-do-the-thing plot.
There's a potentially solid theme of legacy to the movie if you go by plot points alone, it just got muddled by, I assume, all the rewrites. My guess is that the first draft lacked explanation and set-up for a lot of things, the second draft waffled and overexplained, the third draft cut out unnecessary explanation but then kept cutting so too much was left out, and then Disney stuck their head in to demand merch opportunities and certain plot points.
Theme-wise you have Rey defying a family legacy, reference to family and backstory for Poe that was similar, Rey choosing the Skywalker legacy, old heroes coming back to save the day, Kylo living up to his family, coupled with the climactic plot point of Jedi embodying past Jedi and Sith embodying past Sith (and, as a side note, I would put money on it that in some early draft with more Leia, they had that be the mechanism by which her death shunted Kylo over to her side of the Force), everything is about living up to those that came before you. With how often it comes up in the plot it has to be intentional, but god did they suck at making it clear.
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