Offline Storm

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Re: I think you're wrong. Discuss if you dare
« Reply #120 on: February 25, 2020, 11:31:47 PM »
Yep, it's amazing how all that works. The mysteries of our beautiful world.




"...because they received not the love of the Truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the Truth..." (2 Thes. 2:10-12) KJV

"To this end was I born, ...that I should bear witness unto the Truth. Every one that is of the Truth heareth my voice." (-Jesus' words-John 18:37) KJV

Offline iamcpc

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Re: I think you're wrong. Discuss if you dare
« Reply #121 on: February 26, 2020, 05:48:21 PM »
Yep, it's amazing how all that works. The mysteries of our beautiful world.


Is that thing over the earth in your model a dome, a firmament, water, or something else?

In your model are the other stars in the sky inside or outside of that thing mentioned above?

In the "thing" mentioned above is it visible or invisible to the naked eye?

Re: I think you're wrong. Discuss if you dare
« Reply #122 on: February 26, 2020, 05:53:50 PM »
Yep, it's amazing how all that works. The mysteries of our beautiful world.

How do the stars in the southern skies work? What would be the cause of an eclipse?
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
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Offline model 29

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Re: I think you're wrong. Discuss if you dare
« Reply #123 on: March 02, 2020, 07:19:28 AM »
Here's an impossible image, guys and gals.....



...yessir. Straight from Wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascade_Range

Mountain in the foreground is Mt. Rainier in Washington State. Mountains in the background, from left to right, are Adams, Hood and St. Helens.

But wait!!!.....That's impossible!!

Mount Hood is almost a HUNDRED miles from Mount Rainier!!

Science tells us the earth is 25,000 miles in diameter and that the curvature drops 8 inches per mile squared!! We couldn't POSSIBLY see Mount Hood from Mount Rainier!!

--------

Per Wikipedia: Mt. Rainier is 80 miles wide.....hmmm....no curve there anywhere in the image left to right AT ALL. Wiki says it's 700 miles long North to South....nope....no visible curve there. And Mt. St. Helens is 34 miles from Mt. Hood....that's strange.....there's absolutely NO curve between those mountains, EITHER!!!

Maybe it has something to do with where that ol' nasty ship is sitting on the horizon, or OOPS, NOT on the horizon I mean. SORRY! :o

I know what it is..........it's that dadgum red-liquid rain guage that's boogered things up so good. Drats!! Foiled again!
Pic taken from an airliner, so observer has enough elevation to see that far, and no distinguishable horizon to see any left to right curvature.  Try again.

Re: I think you're wrong. Discuss if you dare
« Reply #124 on: March 02, 2020, 09:47:57 AM »
it certainly indicates the very unique characteristics that moonlight has and how those characteristics affect plants that bloom without sunlight (at night time).

The picture you originally posted calls them "night" blooming flowers. As has been explained, they have evolved to bloom at night to coincide with nocturnal insects which pollinate them. Nothing to do with moonlight.

Quote
moonlight is uniquely different than sunlight. (Moonlight is NOT reflected sunlight.)

No it isn't and yes it is. Why on earth would the moon have phases if it's self-illuminating? Phases are a characteristic of a body being illuminated as are shadows. I took this myself:



I don't have a fancy camera but even on that you can see shadows of craters, it's clear the moon is being lit.

Lunar cycles do have an impact on some things but not because there is any inherent different quality about moonlight. There isn't. It may be that the amount of light the moon reflects, which varies with the moon phases, may have an impact on things.

Just to specifically respond to this part:

Quote
What we do know is that moonlight, while generally similar to the sunlight..., shifts a bit towards the infrared...This makes moonlight not just a less intense version of sunlight—it is somewhat qualitatively different, too.

Any body when reflecting light will absorb some wavelengths and reflect others. That is literally how we see colours. There is no inherent "redness" about things we perceive as red, they simply absorb other wavelengths and reflect red ones. So yes, the light coming from the moon will have a different spectrum to that coming from the sun because of the wavelengths which the moon absorbs. But moonlight doesn't "cool things down" (another claim oft repeated on here), it's just a reflection of the light from the sun, the moon phases and shadows we see on it prove this.
"On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa...Upon looking into the telescope I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore
- An excerpt from the account of the Bishop Experiment. My emphasis

Groit

Re: I think you're wrong. Discuss if you dare
« Reply #125 on: March 02, 2020, 10:50:10 PM »


This shows us exactly where the sun is and gives us a rough idea of its size. Believed to be approximately 35 miles in diameter.




2. They show how much smaller our sun is than science would have us believe.

Don't let anybody tell you this is light refraction. Light doesn't refract uniformly like this with all rays not only lining up perfectly side by side, but also gradually spreading out perfectly like a fan. That's just not how refraction works.

This laminate floor also looks like its spreading out like a fan and converging to a point, but those planks are running parallel just like the rays from the sun.


Offline Storm

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Re: I think you're wrong. Discuss if you dare
« Reply #126 on: March 02, 2020, 11:30:32 PM »


This shows us exactly where the sun is and gives us a rough idea of its size. Believed to be approximately 35 miles in diameter.




2. They show how much smaller our sun is than science would have us believe.

Don't let anybody tell you this is light refraction. Light doesn't refract uniformly like this with all rays not only lining up perfectly side by side, but also gradually spreading out perfectly like a fan. That's just not how refraction works.

This laminate floor also looks like its spreading out like a fan and converging to a point, but those planks are running parallel just like the rays from the sun.



This claim to explain away sun rays that are pointing 'UP' toward the source/sun, doesn't work at all. It's not difficult to tell the difference between parallel lines that are moving toward the vanishing point and rays of sunlight that are shining 'DOWN' out of a cloud.

That image, in particular, shows very clearly that the sun, itself, is plainly obscured by clouds between it and the viewer.

Therefore, the only possible avenue of escape for the sunlight is 'DOWN' out of the clouds and toward the ground. This is clearly evident to the eye.

Here are some perfect examples of sunlight shining 'DOWN' onto the ground and water below the clouds that are obscuring their source.






"...because they received not the love of the Truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the Truth..." (2 Thes. 2:10-12) KJV

"To this end was I born, ...that I should bear witness unto the Truth. Every one that is of the Truth heareth my voice." (-Jesus' words-John 18:37) KJV

Offline Storm

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Re: I think you're wrong. Discuss if you dare
« Reply #127 on: March 02, 2020, 11:42:58 PM »
Here's an impossible image, guys and gals.....



...yessir. Straight from Wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascade_Range

Mountain in the foreground is Mt. Rainier in Washington State. Mountains in the background, from left to right, are Adams, Hood and St. Helens.

But wait!!!.....That's impossible!!

Mount Hood is almost a HUNDRED miles from Mount Rainier!!

Science tells us the earth is 25,000 miles in diameter and that the curvature drops 8 inches per mile squared!! We couldn't POSSIBLY see Mount Hood from Mount Rainier!!

--------

Per Wikipedia: Mt. Rainier is 80 miles wide.....hmmm....no curve there anywhere in the image left to right AT ALL. Wiki says it's 700 miles long North to South....nope....no visible curve there. And Mt. St. Helens is 34 miles from Mt. Hood....that's strange.....there's absolutely NO curve between those mountains, EITHER!!!

Maybe it has something to do with where that ol' nasty ship is sitting on the horizon, or OOPS, NOT on the horizon I mean. SORRY! :o

I know what it is..........it's that dadgum red-liquid rain guage that's boogered things up so good. Drats!! Foiled again!
Pic taken from an airliner, so observer has enough elevation to see that far, and no distinguishable horizon to see any left to right curvature.  Try again.

Pic taken from airliner? Possibly, but no proof anywhere in that Wiki page link.

No distinguishable horizon? Fail.

No left to right curvature? Correct.

You can see plenty clearly in that image to detect if there were the amount of curvature there is supposed to be for 50-60 miles distance left to right.

There is none.
"...because they received not the love of the Truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the Truth..." (2 Thes. 2:10-12) KJV

"To this end was I born, ...that I should bear witness unto the Truth. Every one that is of the Truth heareth my voice." (-Jesus' words-John 18:37) KJV

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: I think you're wrong. Discuss if you dare
« Reply #128 on: March 03, 2020, 12:14:31 AM »
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascade_Range#/media/File:Mount_Rainier_and_other_Cascades_mountains_poking_through_clouds.jpg

"no proof the picture is from an airliner" - click on the pictue in the wikipedia page to get the link above

From the above;

"Three Cascade Range mountains: Mount Rainier (foreground) as well as Mount St. Helens and Mount Adams seen poking through the cloud layer shortly after takeoff on a commercial flight from Seattle to Detroit. Despite bringing a microfiber cloth to clean the aircraft window, the poor optical quality of the window resulted in a blurry photo."


The photographer is;

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Dllu
« Last Edit: March 03, 2020, 12:16:16 AM by Tumeni »
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Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
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Nearly?

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Offline stack

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Re: I think you're wrong. Discuss if you dare
« Reply #129 on: March 03, 2020, 12:15:09 AM »
Here's an impossible image, guys and gals.....



...yessir. Straight from Wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascade_Range

Mountain in the foreground is Mt. Rainier in Washington State. Mountains in the background, from left to right, are Adams, Hood and St. Helens.

But wait!!!.....That's impossible!!

Mount Hood is almost a HUNDRED miles from Mount Rainier!!

Science tells us the earth is 25,000 miles in diameter and that the curvature drops 8 inches per mile squared!! We couldn't POSSIBLY see Mount Hood from Mount Rainier!!

--------

Per Wikipedia: Mt. Rainier is 80 miles wide.....hmmm....no curve there anywhere in the image left to right AT ALL. Wiki says it's 700 miles long North to South....nope....no visible curve there. And Mt. St. Helens is 34 miles from Mt. Hood....that's strange.....there's absolutely NO curve between those mountains, EITHER!!!

Maybe it has something to do with where that ol' nasty ship is sitting on the horizon, or OOPS, NOT on the horizon I mean. SORRY! :o

I know what it is..........it's that dadgum red-liquid rain guage that's boogered things up so good. Drats!! Foiled again!
Pic taken from an airliner, so observer has enough elevation to see that far, and no distinguishable horizon to see any left to right curvature.  Try again.

Pic taken from airliner? Possibly, but no proof anywhere in that Wiki page link.

"English: Three Cascade Range mountains: Mount Rainier (foreground) as well as Mount St. Helens and Mount Adams seen poking through the cloud layer shortly after takeoff on a commercial flight from Seattle to Detroit. Despite bringing a microfiber cloth to clean the aircraft window, the poor optical quality of the window resulted in a blurry photo."
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Mount_Rainier_and_other_Cascades_mountains_poking_through_clouds.jpg

Research more.


No distinguishable horizon? Fail.

How so?

No left to right curvature? Correct.

No one of a right mind expects to see curvature at such a low altitude. Earth is very large.

You can see plenty clearly in that image to detect if there were the amount of curvature there is supposed to be for 50-60 miles distance left to right.

There is none.

See above.
Not much is known about the celestial bodies and their distances.

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: I think you're wrong. Discuss if you dare
« Reply #130 on: March 03, 2020, 12:18:04 AM »
You can see plenty clearly in that image to detect if there were the amount of curvature there is supposed to be ...

Plenty of ... what?
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Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
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Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

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Offline stack

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Re: I think you're wrong. Discuss if you dare
« Reply #131 on: March 03, 2020, 12:19:53 AM »


This shows us exactly where the sun is and gives us a rough idea of its size. Believed to be approximately 35 miles in diameter.




2. They show how much smaller our sun is than science would have us believe.

Don't let anybody tell you this is light refraction. Light doesn't refract uniformly like this with all rays not only lining up perfectly side by side, but also gradually spreading out perfectly like a fan. That's just not how refraction works.

This laminate floor also looks like its spreading out like a fan and converging to a point, but those planks are running parallel just like the rays from the sun.



This claim to explain away sun rays that are pointing 'UP' toward the source/sun, doesn't work at all. It's not difficult to tell the difference between parallel lines that are moving toward the vanishing point and rays of sunlight that are shining 'DOWN' out of a cloud.

That image, in particular, shows very clearly that the sun, itself, is plainly obscured by clouds between it and the viewer.

Therefore, the only possible avenue of escape for the sunlight is 'DOWN' out of the clouds and toward the ground. This is clearly evident to the eye.

Here are some perfect examples of sunlight shining 'DOWN' onto the ground and water below the clouds that are obscuring their source.



If the sun was just above the clouds that would make it 10k, 20k feet above earth? Seriously? Tell us more how that would work, especially on a cloudless day.
Not much is known about the celestial bodies and their distances.

Offline Storm

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Re: I think you're wrong. Discuss if you dare
« Reply #132 on: March 03, 2020, 12:37:25 AM »



No one of a right mind expects to see curvature at such a low altitude. Earth is very large.


Not so large. 25,000 miles circumference, so they say. 50-60 mi from left to right in that image. That's roughly half a mile of drop on each side of that image that is strangely missing.

I guess you're saying you'd have to be insane to see it? You'd be right, because it is clearly not there.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2020, 12:41:31 AM by Storm »
"...because they received not the love of the Truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the Truth..." (2 Thes. 2:10-12) KJV

"To this end was I born, ...that I should bear witness unto the Truth. Every one that is of the Truth heareth my voice." (-Jesus' words-John 18:37) KJV

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Offline stack

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Re: I think you're wrong. Discuss if you dare
« Reply #133 on: March 03, 2020, 12:46:49 AM »



No one of a right mind expects to see curvature at such a low altitude. Earth is very large.

Not so large. 25,000 miles circumference, so they say. 50-60 mi from left to right in that image. That's roughly half a mile of drop on each side of that image that is strangely missing.

I guess you're saying you'd have to be insane to see it? You'd be right, because it is clearly not there.

The red line in the inset is 50 miles long. Earth is large.

Not much is known about the celestial bodies and their distances.

Offline Storm

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Re: I think you're wrong. Discuss if you dare
« Reply #134 on: March 03, 2020, 01:06:22 AM »

The picture you originally posted calls them "night" blooming flowers. As has been explained, they have evolved to bloom at night to coincide with nocturnal insects which pollinate them. Nothing to do with moonlight.

Does this imply that there aren't enough diurnal insects to get the job done?

And, nothing to do with moonlight?

All of these people from the article linked would strongly disagree with you. Seeing that they are the ones who did the extensive research and published their findings:

Isabella Guerrini, at the University of Perugia in Italy
Authors Ian Cole and Michael Balick
Ernst Zurcher
Dr. Guerrini
Article author Guido Mase

Quote
Planting by the moon
While the factors that affect plant growth are complex and vary greatly, the basic concept is really quite simple. As the moon increases in light towards the full moon, sap flow is more active. Conversely, as the moon wanes, sap flow slows.
https://permacultureprinciples.com/post/moonlight-affect-plant-growth/#lightbox/0/


Quote
moonlight is uniquely different than sunlight. (Moonlight is NOT reflected sunlight.)

No it isn't and yes it is....

Oh, yes it is and no, it isn't.

The article in question clearly states:
Quote
...moonlight [is] not just a less intense version of sunlight—it is somewhat qualitatively different, too.

Just to specifically respond to this part:

Quote
What we do know is that moonlight, while generally similar to the sunlight..., shifts a bit towards the infrared...This makes moonlight not just a less intense version of sunlight—it is somewhat qualitatively different, too.

Any body when reflecting light will absorb some wavelengths and reflect others. That is literally how we see colours. There is no inherent "redness" about things we perceive as red, they simply absorb other wavelengths and reflect red ones. So yes, the light coming from the moon will have a different spectrum to that coming from the sun because of the wavelengths which the moon absorbs.

You are simply describing a less intense version of sunlight; exactly what the article specifically points out is 'not' the reason for their results. They are adamant that their findings are due to the light of the moon; not some gravitational effect, nor any less intense version of reflected sunlight.

Quote
...he also points out that the easy explanation (a tide-like gravitational force) is most likely incorrect, as the amount of water in even the largest tree is relatively small, and a tidal force would be negligible.
https://permacultureprinciples.com/post/moonlight-affect-plant-growth/#lightbox/0/
"...because they received not the love of the Truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the Truth..." (2 Thes. 2:10-12) KJV

"To this end was I born, ...that I should bear witness unto the Truth. Every one that is of the Truth heareth my voice." (-Jesus' words-John 18:37) KJV

Re: I think you're wrong. Discuss if you dare
« Reply #135 on: March 03, 2020, 10:41:02 AM »
Not so large. 25,000 miles circumference, so they say. 50-60 mi from left to right in that image. That's roughly half a mile of drop on each side of that image that is strangely missing.

I guess you're saying you'd have to be insane to see it? You'd be right, because it is clearly not there.

The diameter of earth is 7,917 miles. So I went into Paint.NET and drew a circle 791x791 (should have been 792 really, but let's not split hairs.
Here's the top of that circle with two lines 40 pixels apart.



That represents 400 miles - 10 pixels to a mile. Where's the curve?
tl;dr - the earth is really big. At normal scales and altitudes you can't see the curve left to right. You need to be very high up for that.

As for the crepuscular rays, it's explained well here



If the sun was as close as implied by some of your images then planes would crash into it.

Edit. I note in your reply about moonlight you have ignored the point about phases and shadows. How are those things possible if the moon is self-illuminating?
« Last Edit: March 03, 2020, 10:43:40 AM by AllAroundTheWorld »
"On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa...Upon looking into the telescope I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore
- An excerpt from the account of the Bishop Experiment. My emphasis

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: I think you're wrong. Discuss if you dare
« Reply #136 on: March 03, 2020, 10:59:59 AM »
Not so large. 25,000 miles circumference, so they say. 50-60 mi from left to right in that image. That's roughly half a mile of drop on each side of that image that is strangely missing.

Drop of WHAT? It's all cloud cover and haze. No discernable horizon that could be used to determine any "drop". Not even a reasonably flat area of land, it's all "accidented" as the early explorers put it....
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Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: I think you're wrong. Discuss if you dare
« Reply #137 on: March 03, 2020, 06:36:02 PM »
As for the crepuscular rays, it's explained well here



No, it is not explained well. If the camera was half a mile away from those rays they would be parallel to each other.

We often see pictures of the crepuscular rays spreading apart from each other in the distance, showing that this explanation is insufficient.



"Crepuscular Rays over Ardery Island in the Windmill Islands"
« Last Edit: March 03, 2020, 06:48:20 PM by Tom Bishop »
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

Re: I think you're wrong. Discuss if you dare
« Reply #138 on: March 03, 2020, 11:21:57 PM »
No, it is not explained well.

It is. The fact that you continue to fail to understand that explanation isn't because it's poorly explained.

Quote
If the camera was half a mile away from those rays they would be parallel to each other.

You said this last time I posted the video. I pointed out then and will point out again that this a meaningless statement about a 3D model which has no scale.

Quote
We often see pictures of the crepuscular rays spreading apart from each other in the distance, showing that this explanation is insufficient.

All that photo (which is lovely by the way) shows is that the sun is at an angle such that the rays are pointing towards the viewer
I've had a go at explaining this:



Can you see that if the viewer is where the arrow is and looking in the direction the arrow is pointing in then the black slanting lines which in reality are parallel in 3D space will appear angled towards each other and will appear to be coming from a point? That is what is happening in the image you posted.

And you are aware of anti-crepuscular rays?



In that image the sun is behind the camera. But it's the same thing, the rays in reality in 3D space are parallel but because they are receding into the distance they look like they converge at a point which would make the sun in multiple places. Of course in reality it's just a perspective effect.

And I asked you this before, if you believe these rays are really emanating from the sun and you're seeing a lot of their path from it then why can't you see any EA bending effect in their path?
"On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa...Upon looking into the telescope I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore
- An excerpt from the account of the Bishop Experiment. My emphasis

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: I think you're wrong. Discuss if you dare
« Reply #139 on: March 03, 2020, 11:53:15 PM »
Quote
All that photo (which is lovely by the way) shows is that the sun is at an angle such that the rays are pointing towards the viewer
I've had a go at explaining this:



Can you see that if the viewer is where the arrow is and looking in the direction the arrow is pointing in then the black slanting lines which in reality are parallel in 3D space will appear angled towards each other and will appear to be coming from a point? That is what is happening in the image you posted.

You are speaking about a close range perspective effect. Those parallel lines will straighten out when the observer recedes away from them. The distance does matter.



Notice how the lines only appear to be angled at around 80 degrees in relation to each other when the camera is up really close? How does that work when the camera is miles away like in the image of the crepuscular rays over the island which are clearly miles away?

Quote
And I asked you this before, if you believe these rays are really emanating from the sun and you're seeing a lot of their path from it then why can't you see any EA bending effect in their path?

EA occurs over hundreds and thousands of miles.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2020, 12:01:38 AM by Tom Bishop »
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy