Why earth alone is flat in the solar system?
« on: September 26, 2019, 09:15:17 AM »
Why do you think earth alone is flat? Why do you believe the pictures of other planets, but not earth? Do you not realise that the concepts with LOT OF APPLICATIONS like conservation of angular momentum, newtons third law and lot others are completely against the disc structure of earth.

Offline somerled

  • *
  • Posts: 140
    • View Profile
Re: Why earth alone is flat in the solar system?
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2019, 10:02:27 AM »
Why do you think earth alone is flat? Why do you believe the pictures of other planets, but not earth? Do you not realise that the concepts with LOT OF APPLICATIONS like conservation of angular momentum, newtons third law and lot others are completely against the disc structure of earth.

Who can argue against photographic evidence - like this one
 https://www.dogster.com/the-scoop/breaking-pluto-the-dog-has-been-found-on-pluto

Re: Why earth alone is flat in the solar system?
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2019, 10:20:13 AM »
Why do you think earth alone is flat? Why do you believe the pictures of other planets, but not earth? Do you not realise that the concepts with LOT OF APPLICATIONS like conservation of angular momentum, newtons third law and lot others are completely against the disc structure of earth.

Who can argue against photographic evidence - like this one
 https://www.dogster.com/the-scoop/breaking-pluto-the-dog-has-been-found-on-pluto
Are you making a point? Humans are famously good at seeing shapes or patterns in meanlingless noise.

The "Face on Mars" thing which for a while got people excited that ancient Martian communities had build the structure.

Subsequent better quality images show it looks nothing like a face

https://www.space.com/17191-face-on-mars.html
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Offline somerled

  • *
  • Posts: 140
    • View Profile
Re: Why earth alone is flat in the solar system?
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2019, 01:05:04 PM »
The point is blindingly obvious to those who can see .

Re: Why earth alone is flat in the solar system?
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2019, 03:09:42 PM »
The point is blindingly obvious to those who can see .
OK, well humour me.
What is your point?
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

*

Offline Tumeni

  • *
  • Posts: 1439
    • View Profile
Re: Why earth alone is flat in the solar system?
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2019, 06:11:04 PM »
The point is blindingly obvious to those who can see .
OK, well humour me.
What is your point?

Yes, humour us both, and spell it out. What is your point?
==============================
==============================
Pete Svarrior "We are not here to directly persuade anyone ... You mistake our lack of interest in you for our absence."

Tom Bishop "We are extremely popular and the entire world wants to talk to us. We have better things to do with our lives than have in depth discussions with every single curious person. You are lucky to get one sentence dismissals from us"

TheScientist

Re: Why earth alone is flat in the solar system?
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2019, 10:28:16 PM »
Make that three of us to humour. More to the point I don't understand what a distinctive pattern of dark and light features on Pluto has to do with the Earth being flat?

*

Offline Pete Svarrior

  • e
  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 10069
  • (>^_^)> it's propaganda time (◕‿◕✿)
    • View Profile
    • The Flat Earth Society
Re: Why earth alone is flat in the solar system?
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2019, 08:10:44 AM »
Why do you think earth alone is flat?
How have you reached that conclusion? There could well be celestial bodies we haven't discovered yet.

Now, to be fair, you did specifically ask about the solar system, so perhaps that likelihood is not great. But the Earth is rather unique even within the context of RET. How come you believe reports of all other celestial bodies in the solar system being entirely lifeless, but you somehow think there might be life on Earth?

The answer is bordering on blatant: because we can observe it directly and readily.

Why do you believe the pictures of other planets, but not earth?
This is, quite simply, not the case. Our approach is to not take any photographic evidence for granted. Those of us who accept the rotundity of planets do so, again, because they were able to directly observe it, not because someone showed them a pretty picture.

Do you not realise that the concepts with LOT OF APPLICATIONS like conservation of angular momentum, newtons third law and lot others are completely against the disc structure of earth.
A contentious claim at best. I'd recommend familiarising yourself with FET instead of assuming that your imagination of it is representative.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we've already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!


*mic stays stationary and earth accelerates upwards towards it*

Re: Why earth alone is flat in the solar system?
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2019, 12:07:53 PM »
Contentious claim? Do you drive or observe people who drive? Tell them to go fast when they turn and see how they topple of from ground. Conservation of angular momentum is real. Photographic evidence is there for earth too, ISS is observable. Do you think the trajectory of observable ISS is fake? Have all your members around the world and notice ISS, for one full rotation of ISS.

Re: Why earth alone is flat in the solar system?
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2019, 12:55:33 PM »
But the Earth is rather unique even within the context of RET. How come you believe reports of all other celestial bodies in the solar system being entirely lifeless, but you somehow think there might be life on Earth?
I've seen this said before, maybe by you, I can't remember.
I completely disagree with this assertion. Earth is, admittedly, the only place we know of where life exists but
a) We have a very small sample set of planets to check, compared to the scale of the universe.
b) Our exploration of them is in its infancy, relatively speaking.

We've sent probes to all the other planets in our solar system now but only landed on 2 of them. We've never sent humans to any of them. We can be pretty confident there's no intelligent life anywhere else in the solar system (the word "else" is possibly superfluous  ;)) but could there be microbial life on one of the planets or moons? There are a few potential candidates and we've only just started scratching the surface in terms of exploration. It's only in the last 50 years we've had the technology to start exploring them and because of the distances and complexities involved we are very much at the start of that exploration.

Could there be life or even intelligent life elsewhere? We now have the technology to detect exoplanets but that is even newer than our ability to explore the planets in our own solar system. We are starting to discover planets in the so-called Goldilocks zone, we're able to pick up signatures from the atmospheres of other planets which hint at liquid water on some of them. From what we know about life on earth water is a prerequisite but, again, we only have a very small sample of planets to study the conditions which make life possible. It's a big universe. So big that some people believe that intelligent life is inevitable elsewhere. The fact is, we honestly don't know.

Our mentality that our planet is special or unique or has some privileged position in the universe is based on the fact that for most of our history we didn't have the technology to know different. It wasn't until the middle ages we realised that we weren't at the centre of the universe. It's only the last 50 years we've been able to start exploring the other planets and only in the last 30 we've started to be able to detect exoplanets (I'm surprised it's that long, according to Google the first one was discovered in 1988, it's certainly only recently we've started discover them in volume and be able to infer details of their atmospheres from spectroscopy).

In lots of ways there is nothing special about the earth. From our explorations of the other plants so far it looks like many of the same features found on earth are present on the other planets. They have volcanos and seismic activity, mountains and valleys. We think there are oceans on some of the moons. Mars has ice water and some of the features are highly suggestive on liquid water flowing at some point in the past. Did life ever exist there? Does it exist in any form now? We're so new to the exploration of it, relatively speaking, it's impossible to be sure.

The assertion that the earth is unique comes from religious belief or the limits of our scientific knowledge. Currently there is no reason to think there is anything special about the earth. It's possible we are the only planet in the universe with intelligent life on but the more we understand about other planets in our solar system and the similarities we see, the more we understand the scale of the universe and the prevalence of planets orbiting other stars the more plausible it seems that there's nothing special about our place in the universe and nothing unique about the earth at all.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2019, 02:01:01 PM by AllAroundTheWorld »
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

TheScientist

Re: Why earth alone is flat in the solar system?
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2019, 05:17:52 PM »
Quote
How come you believe reports of all other celestial bodies in the solar system being entirely lifeless, but you somehow think there might be life on Earth?

I can confirm without any doubt whatsoever that there is definitely life on Earth.

Quote
How have you reached that conclusion? There could well be celestial bodies we haven't discovered yet.

We are discovering new celestial bodies all the time.  None of them flat though.

Come to think of it there is no evidence that we have far discovered that shows us irrefutably that the Earth is flat either. So why on Earth would we think it is?  If it was we wouldn't see a distinct and clearly defined horizon. That's not hard to figure out.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2019, 05:23:03 PM by TheScientist »

Re: Why earth alone is flat in the solar system?
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2019, 06:45:05 PM »
It’s not just that the earth and all the other celestial bodies above a certain mass we observe are spherical, or roughly so.
Gravity explains why that is so and we understand the oblateness caused by the earth’s spin.
In FET there’s no explanation for why the earth is flat and the other bodies we observe are round, it just is. The earth is special and different for some reason.

I can understand that from the people who come to FET through a skewed interpretation of certain Bible verses. Of course people like that would think the earth is special and different. Not sure why anyone who doesn’t come to FET from that angle would think that though as the evidence mounts up that we are a pretty unremarkable planet orbiting a pretty unremarkable star in an unremarkable galaxy.

With my Christian hat on I’d say our significance comes from who the Bible says we are, not where we are.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

TheScientist

Re: Why earth alone is flat in the solar system?
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2019, 08:12:20 AM »
Quote
In FET there’s no explanation for why the earth is flat and the other bodies we observe are round, it just is.
In this sense FE'ers are like rebelious, arrogant teenagers who deliberately take on a different opinion to everyone else just because they want to disagree with the mainstream view. Their strongest contention is that the Earth must be flat because it looks flat. But that is simply a misinterptretation, deliberate or otherwise of the fact that we see so little of the Earths surface at any one time that we cannot see any noticeable curvature.

What happens when we look out into space? We see a round Moon, a round Sun and round planets. Strange that eh? Above a certain mass threshold any solid body in space is sculpted by gravity into a basically spherical shape. Why? Because there is a tendancy of matter to want to get as close as possible to the centre of the mass. So that naturally creates a spherical shape.

To try and avoid the inevitable, FE believers have created their own version of physics such as UA and EA, neither of which have ever actually been tested and proved to be true. The only thing special about the Earth is that we happen to live on it so we are obviously going to have a unique perspective of it. If we were to go and visit another planet in the Solar System, the Earth would just be a bright dot in the sky like all the other planets.

Offline somerled

  • *
  • Posts: 140
    • View Profile
Re: Why earth alone is flat in the solar system?
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2019, 08:14:25 AM »
It’s not just that the earth and all the other celestial bodies above a certain mass we observe are spherical, or roughly so.
Gravity explains why that is so and we understand the oblateness caused by the earth’s spin.

The oblate spheroid of Newton was rubbished by the scientists that carried out the first test of Newtons theory of gravity - 1670's survey of arc of meridian across France carried out by the French academy of Sciences , led by Giovanni Cassini .

Also ,seeing a round sun and planets is not the same as seeing spheres.


TheScientist

Re: Why earth alone is flat in the solar system?
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2019, 08:20:10 AM »
Quote
Also ,seeing a round sun and planets is not the same as seeing spheres.

Really - how is that then? By that comment alone you make it clear that you have never looked through a telescope at the Moon through a telescope. I would recommend it because you can clearly see, unmistakably that the Moon is indeed spherical. Same applies to the Sun but of course you have to use the proper filters and precautions when looking at the Sun through telescopes.  I can highly recommend Ha dedicated solar telescopes.

No question from this image for example that the Suns shape is spherical http://www.avertedimagination.com/images/a_ha_moment2.jpg

« Last Edit: September 28, 2019, 09:40:19 AM by TheScientist »

Re: Why earth alone is flat in the solar system?
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2019, 09:37:23 AM »
The oblate spheroid of Newton was rubbished by the scientists that carried out the first test of Newtons theory of gravity - 1670's survey of arc of meridian across France carried out by the French academy of Sciences , led by Giovanni Cassini.
I see. Please provide more details. If it's been rubbished then how come that remains the prevailing scientific view?

Quote
Also ,seeing a round sun and planets is not the same as seeing spheres.

Correct, I guess they could be flat discs. But given the phases we observe of the planets and the way sunspots and other features move across the sun's surface it's clear they're spheres. There's only one 3D shape which appears as a circle (or part thereof, if it's partially lit) from any angle and that's a sphere.
How do you think moons orbit the other planets if it's not for them all being spheres and gravity?
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

TheScientist

Re: Why earth alone is flat in the solar system?
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2019, 10:29:55 AM »
Quote
But given the phases we observe of the planets and the way sunspots and other features move across the sun's surface it's clear they're spheres.

The only planets that show a full sequence of phases are Mercury and Venus. Evidence that shows the Earth is the third planet out from the Sun. Sunspots are the 'giveaway' evidence for the Suns rotation and since the Sun always looks like a disk from Earth there is your observational evidence that the Sun is a sphere.

Of course if Somerled can offer some viable, alternative explanation then please let us know. However if you refuse to accept any evidence other than what you can see with just your eyes alone then your arguments are very limited I'm afraid.

Offline somerled

  • *
  • Posts: 140
    • View Profile
Re: Why earth alone is flat in the solar system?
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2019, 11:45:26 AM »
The oblate spheroid of Newton was rubbished by the scientists that carried out the first test of Newtons theory of gravity - 1670's survey of arc of meridian across France carried out by the French academy of Sciences , led by Giovanni Cassini.
I see. Please provide more details. If it's been rubbished then how come that remains the prevailing scientific view?

Quote
Also ,seeing a round sun and planets is not the same as seeing spheres.

Correct, I guess they could be flat discs. But given the phases we observe of the planets and the way sunspots and other features move across the sun's surface it's clear they're spheres. There's only one 3D shape which appears as a circle (or part thereof, if it's partially lit) from any angle and that's a sphere.
How do you think moons orbit the other planets if it's not for them all being spheres and gravity?

Mainstream science accepts anything , even poor experiment , which supports the fictitious solar system . Posting CGI of planets/sun is evidence of nothing.

The planets and our moon do not exhibit the reflective properties of spherical objects (scattering of light resulting in a hotspot) lit from a distant source . The outer planets exhibit no characteristics suggestive of reflection from a sphere lit by a distant sun , you can see that through your telescopes . They could be luminaries . Inner planets are small moons of the local sun (Brahe). Of course all our theories about light could be wrong too .

The solar system model was introduced without any supporting evidence . A fact which is always ignored .

Researching subjects yourself is the best way to form your own views . Blind acceptance not my thing .

TheScientist

Re: Why earth alone is flat in the solar system?
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2019, 01:09:35 PM »
I really cannot fathom where you get your ideas from. Everything you say is quite simply made up as you go along.

Quote
Mainstream science accepts anything , even poor experiment , which supports the fictitious solar system
Absolute rubbish.

Quote
The planets and our moon do not exhibit the reflective properties of spherical objects

Again, absolute rubbish.  How do you suppose the phases of the Moon happen if its not by reflected sunlight?  What causes the phases of Venus?

Quote
The outer planets exhibit no characteristics suggestive of reflection from a sphere lit by a distant sun

I see, so how do you account for the shadow transits of the satellites of Jupiter then as they pass across Jupiters disk. Something you can see in a telescope quite regularly.  And how do you account for the shadow of Saturns disk on the rings? Something you don't see when Saturn is at or very near opposition?

What you say is based on your biased opinions and not on real, observational evidence. In weak efforts to defend your views you always revert back to historical evidence when our knowledge of the Solar System was far less thorough than it is now. 

Quote
The solar system model was introduced without any supporting evidence . A fact which is always ignored .

You are very good at making completely false claims to suit your beliefs. What you are not good at and never have been is providing any supporting actual evidence to back up your own claims about what you think the Solar System is like.

Have you ever looked through a telescope and seen the Moon through it for yourself?



« Last Edit: September 28, 2019, 01:14:17 PM by TheScientist »

Offline somerled

  • *
  • Posts: 140
    • View Profile
Re: Why earth alone is flat in the solar system?
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2019, 09:08:28 PM »
Your ignorance of mainstream theory is showing in your accusations .Tell us which new unexplained observation prompted the introduction of globe earth theory .

I do not question phases of the moon . Reflection of sunlight , which is scattered by spherical bodies - has an observable hotspot effect due to reflective qualities of spherical objects .

I regularly observe the planets and moon through my telescopes . Never seen a lunar or planetary  hotspot and neither have you . The moons of Jupiter are seen in transit because Jupiter is a luminary .