Re: Robert “Beto” O’Rourke laughs at El Paso shooting
« Reply #60 on: August 07, 2019, 04:22:58 PM »
The US does not have the worst violent crime rate in the West.

The US barely cracks the top 100.

Which Western nations have a higher violent crime rate than the US? Are you going to start listing off Soviet bloc nations or something?
The US does not have the worst violent crime rate in the West.

The US barely cracks the top 100.

Which Western nations have a higher violent crime rate than the US? Are you going to start listing off Soviet bloc nations or something?

he is going to be pedantic and say something like Venezuela.
The US does not have the worst violent crime rate in the West.

The US barely cracks the top 100.

Which Western nations have a higher violent crime rate than the US? Are you going to start listing off Soviet bloc nations or something?
Are Soviet bloc nations still in existence?

When you write Western nation, what do you mean?

When I read Western nations, I mean Western Hemisphere.

But here:
https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Violent-crime/Murder-rate-per-million-people

Re: Robert “Beto” O’Rourke laughs at El Paso shooting
« Reply #61 on: August 07, 2019, 04:35:26 PM »
No.

Because as is shown by factual data, as gun ownership has risen in the US the amount of gun violence has gone down.


you will have to show some evidence for this because this study shows that owning a gun makes you more likely to be shot and that firearm prevalence increases violent crime.
https://www.ojjdp.gov/pubs/gun_violence/sect01.html

this doesn't support your position.  it shows that gun violence has gone down overall, it says nothing about rates of gun ownership rising and it doesn't correlate the two which is what you need for your point to matter.
Gun ownership has risen in the US.

In 2014, the number was estimated at 270 million.

Today that number is estimated to nearly 400 million.

I made a statement:

As gun ownership has risen in the US, gun violence has gone down.

The statement stands as factual.

Uhhh... The article you linked had data only up to 1996.  So anything you out out after is worthless without the other data to support it.

Also, the total number of guns is irrelevant.  According to that old article, many owners had several guns.  This, naturally, is irrelevant.  One gun, from a position of gun owners, is the same as 20.  We want the number of people who own a gun.

400 million people in America can't be gun owners as the population of America isn't 400 million. (327 million currently.  Which includes babies, fyi)

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/02/15/politics/guns-dont-know-how-many-america/index.html

Here's some numbers.  Now as the article says, we don't know for sure how many gun owners there are.  Its illegal to have that data at a federal level.

But if the polls are accurate, the number of actual gun owners is decreasing while the number of guns owned is increasing.  Which means a few have an armory full of weapons.

Also, violent crime has been decreasing nation wide for years, not just gun related.  And its across the board so it has nothing to do with gun ownership (which varies heavily by state).

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Re: Robert “Beto” O’Rourke laughs at El Paso shooting
« Reply #62 on: August 07, 2019, 04:38:23 PM »
The US does not have the worst violent crime rate in the West.

The US barely cracks the top 100.

Which Western nations have a higher violent crime rate than the US? Are you going to start listing off Soviet bloc nations or something?
The US does not have the worst violent crime rate in the West.

The US barely cracks the top 100.

Which Western nations have a higher violent crime rate than the US? Are you going to start listing off Soviet bloc nations or something?

he is going to be pedantic and say something like Venezuela.
The US does not have the worst violent crime rate in the West.

The US barely cracks the top 100.

Which Western nations have a higher violent crime rate than the US? Are you going to start listing off Soviet bloc nations or something?
Are Soviet bloc nations still in existence?

When you write Western nation, what do you mean?

When I read Western nations, I mean Western Hemisphere.

But here:
https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Violent-crime/Murder-rate-per-million-people

Does it not bother you that the only nations with higher crime rates than the US are literally third world?

Also, it's not very useful to define "the West" as the Western hemisphere. This would exclude Europe, so I'm sure you can understand why Europe not being considered Western nations is hilarious. When speaking about Western nations, this is usually nations that are direct cultural derivatives of western Europe, such as most of North America and Australia. It's not helpful to include nations which are literally in the Western hemisphere and exclude others. If we have to compare ourselves to third world nations just to be "better" with every European nation sitting on top of us, surely that means they're doing something correctly that we are not.

Re: Robert “Beto” O’Rourke laughs at El Paso shooting
« Reply #63 on: August 08, 2019, 10:39:41 AM »
Uhhh... The article you linked had data only up to 1996.  So anything you out out after is worthless without the other data to support it.
Okay.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/01/03/5-facts-about-crime-in-the-u-s/
"1Violent crime in the U.S. has fallen sharply over the past quarter century. The two most commonly cited sources of crime statistics in the U.S. both show a substantial decline in the violent crime rate since it peaked in the early 1990s. One is an annual report by the FBI of serious crimes reported to police in approximately 18,000 jurisdictions around the country. The other is an annual survey of more than 90,000 households conducted by the Bureau of Justice Statistics, which asks Americans ages 12 and older whether they were victims of crime, regardless of whether they reported those crimes to the police.

Using the FBI numbers, the violent crime rate fell 49% between 1993 and 2017. Using the BJS data, the rate fell 74% during that span. (For both studies, 2017 is the most recent full year of data.) The long-term decline in violent crime hasn’t been uninterrupted, though. The FBI, for instance, reported increases in the violent crime rate between 2004 and 2006 and again between 2014 and 2016."
Also, the total number of guns is irrelevant.  According to that old article, many owners had several guns.  This, naturally, is irrelevant.  One gun, from a position of gun owners, is the same as 20.  We want the number of people who own a gun.

400 million people in America can't be gun owners as the population of America isn't 400 million. (327 million currently.  Which includes babies, fyi)
I never stated there were 400 million people in the US.

I stated there were an estimated 400 million guns in the hands of citizens in the US.
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/02/15/politics/guns-dont-know-how-many-america/index.html

Here's some numbers.  Now as the article says, we don't know for sure how many gun owners there are.  Its illegal to have that data at a federal level.

But if the polls are accurate, the number of actual gun owners is decreasing while the number of guns owned is increasing.  Which means a few have an armory full of weapons.

Also, violent crime has been decreasing nation wide for years, not just gun related.  And its across the board so it has nothing to do with gun ownership (which varies heavily by state).
Correct, which supports the position that new legislation regarding guns isn't the solution.

Re: Robert “Beto” O’Rourke laughs at El Paso shooting
« Reply #64 on: August 08, 2019, 11:44:30 AM »
Does it not bother you that the only nations with higher crime rates than the US are literally third world?

Also, it's not very useful to define "the West" as the Western hemisphere. This would exclude Europe, so I'm sure you can understand why Europe not being considered Western nations is hilarious. When speaking about Western nations, this is usually nations that are direct cultural derivatives of western Europe, such as most of North America and Australia. It's not helpful to include nations which are literally in the Western hemisphere and exclude others. If we have to compare ourselves to third world nations just to be "better" with every European nation sitting on top of us, surely that means they're doing something correctly that we are not.
Perhaps you meant to write "figuratively," rather than "literally."

http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/third-world-countries/

Most of the countries, I believe, are listed on the "developing countries," list.

As far as European Countries are concerned, we do things more correctly, as we are the ones left to bail them out when they can't control their own defenses.

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Re: Robert “Beto” O’Rourke laughs at El Paso shooting
« Reply #65 on: August 08, 2019, 02:17:00 PM »
Perhaps you meant to write "figuratively," rather than "literally."

http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/third-world-countries/

Most of the countries, I believe, are listed on the "developing countries," list.

"Our country is great as long as we compare it to people who have trouble ensuring the tap water is clean." Yes, America, truly the greatest country ever. Our new motto is "At least we're not Guatamala!"

As far as European Countries are concerned, we do things more correctly, as we are the ones left to bail them out when they can't control their own defenses.

By that you mean they've successfully scammed us into paying for their defense and will continue to do so for the near future? They have longer and happier lives but I'm sure we can just sit around and laugh about how our military has more pew pew than them. That really evens it out.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2019, 02:18:34 PM by Rushy »

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Re: Robert “Beto” O’Rourke laughs at El Paso shooting
« Reply #66 on: August 08, 2019, 03:03:30 PM »
Well, if you guys got your shit together on healthcare you could lengthen that lifespan too.
You don't get races of anything ... accept people.

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Re: Robert “Beto” O’Rourke laughs at El Paso shooting
« Reply #67 on: August 08, 2019, 05:11:12 PM »
Well, if you guys got your shit together on healthcare you could lengthen that lifespan too.

There are more reasons than just shitty healthcare contributing to the unhealthy status is this nation. This is where culture comes into play. How many Americans' primary diet comes from fast food? How many Americans sit on their asses not doing much more than engaging in vicarious activity? Stress is also a factor, but I can't speak to the differences of stress from one place to another except for the difference of rural vs urban or industrialized vs pre-industrialized. Urban and industrial areas will experience more stress on average - anthropological studies will show.
"noche te ipsum"

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."  - Albert Einstein

Re: Robert “Beto” O’Rourke laughs at El Paso shooting
« Reply #68 on: August 08, 2019, 05:30:17 PM »
Perhaps you meant to write "figuratively," rather than "literally."

http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/third-world-countries/

Most of the countries, I believe, are listed on the "developing countries," list.

"Our country is great as long as we compare it to people who have trouble ensuring the tap water is clean." Yes, America, truly the greatest country ever. Our new motto is "At least we're not Guatamala!"
Yes, according to AOC, our toilet water is cleaner than the rest of the world supply.

Unsure of the gripe.

And yes, no retraction on the 3rd world bit...

I thought things were meant to be PC here for some reason...
As far as European Countries are concerned, we do things more correctly, as we are the ones left to bail them out when they can't control their own defenses.

By that you mean they've successfully scammed us into paying for their defense and will continue to do so for the near future? They have longer and happier lives but I'm sure we can just sit around and laugh about how our military has more pew pew than them. That really evens it out.
I think it demonstrates who is calling the shots...

Now that we have agreed on that, can't we just blame the prime minister of France and the Queen for El Paso?

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Re: Robert “Beto” O’Rourke laughs at El Paso shooting
« Reply #69 on: August 09, 2019, 11:54:05 AM »
Well, if you guys got your shit together on healthcare you could lengthen that lifespan too.

There are more reasons than just shitty healthcare contributing to the unhealthy status is this nation. This is where culture comes into play. How many Americans' primary diet comes from fast food? How many Americans sit on their asses not doing much more than engaging in vicarious activity? Stress is also a factor, but I can't speak to the differences of stress from one place to another except for the difference of rural vs urban or industrialized vs pre-industrialized. Urban and industrial areas will experience more stress on average - anthropological studies will show.

Yeah, although ideally, and people are starting to adopt this, the best healthcare is preventative. It would be great if we had more dieticians, masseuses, etc... and people took advantage of them. Imagine if personal trainers could be covered by insurance? Exercise, diet and rest are the best defenses against stress.
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Re: Robert “Beto” O’Rourke laughs at El Paso shooting
« Reply #70 on: August 09, 2019, 12:41:05 PM »
Well, if you guys got your shit together on healthcare you could lengthen that lifespan too.

There are more reasons than just shitty healthcare contributing to the unhealthy status is this nation. This is where culture comes into play. How many Americans' primary diet comes from fast food? How many Americans sit on their asses not doing much more than engaging in vicarious activity? Stress is also a factor, but I can't speak to the differences of stress from one place to another except for the difference of rural vs urban or industrialized vs pre-industrialized. Urban and industrial areas will experience more stress on average - anthropological studies will show.

Yeah, although ideally, and people are starting to adopt this, the best healthcare is preventative. It would be great if we had more dieticians, masseuses, etc... and people took advantage of them. Imagine if personal trainers could be covered by insurance? Exercise, diet and rest are the best defenses against stress.

Agreed. I'd add more to this, but I feel like it's getting off topic....
"noche te ipsum"

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."  - Albert Einstein

Re: Robert “Beto” O’Rourke laughs at El Paso shooting
« Reply #71 on: August 11, 2019, 11:36:56 AM »
Some sense behind the numbers: