Re: Would it be possible for a satellite to rotate around a FE
« Reply #60 on: June 11, 2019, 08:59:31 AM »
That is not how you reach definite conclusions about the shape of the Sun: a discoidal Sun also has a rotating atmosphere.
I'm interested in the idea that a disc can have an atmosphere...

And the concept that a sun which is a disc 12km above the surface of the earth can be seen as a circle of the same angular size by people thousands of miles apart and at different altitudes.
Dress it up in as much word salad as you like, there is no way a disc can be seen that way.

The argument that <x> cannot be explained by science isn't an argument at all. Even if you're correct (you ramble so much I honestly can't tell), simple observations of the sun being a circle of consistent angular size as it goes across the sky, moving at a consistent angular speed, and being seen as a circle simultaneously by people in different places show it can't be a disc and it can't be close to the surface of the earth.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Re: Would it be possible for a satellite to rotate around a FE
« Reply #61 on: June 11, 2019, 09:48:49 AM »
You always forget about the existence of the ether.

Convince yourself that the existence of the ether cannot be denied anymore, the RUDERFER experiment:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1846721#msg1846721

The local-aether model is being adopted by modern science:

https://web.archive.org/web/20170808104846/http://qem.ee.nthu.edu.tw/f1b.pdf

This is an IOP article.

The reason it appears circular when viewed from distance is the existence of a different index of refraction of ether for each latitude.

The ether is latitude dependent.

http://www.orgonelab.org/miller.htm

"The measurements were latitude-dependent as well."

http://www.orgonelab.org/EtherDrift/Galaev.pdf

On page 218, a formula for the latitude dependent ether drift.

The CORIOLIS EFFECT formula used by Michelson and Gale is also latitude dependent (ether drift formula).

The existence of the ether shows that there are latitude dependent indexes of refraction.

This changes everything.

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Offline markjo

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Re: Would it be possible for a satellite to rotate around a FE
« Reply #62 on: June 11, 2019, 01:47:08 PM »
On the other hand, you say Cassini did record it even though he couldn't have observed it and that too is proof that something is wrong with the gregorian calendar.

It was recorded by Cassini, whether he could have seen or not.

What does this tell you?
It tells me that you're probably wrong about Cassini recording that eclipse (unless it from was second or third hand reports).

And if there's something wrong with the gregorian calendar all of history and all of cosmology is completely wrong as we know it.

If there was no Gregorian calendar reform, then the Earth never orbited around the Sun before 1662 AD (or 1643 AD, if we could find some kind of astronomical records). It is as simple as this.
Why would the earth be obligated to orbit around the sun according to a man-made calendar? ???
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

Re: Would it be possible for a satellite to rotate around a FE
« Reply #63 on: June 11, 2019, 02:34:40 PM »
Exact formula for the Biefeld-Brown effect:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2177793#msg2177793


The solar eclipses for 1662 AD were recorded by Cassini:

https://amshistorica.unibo.it/25 (pg 28-30)

Gregorian calendar reform = the astronomical data for the period 1 AD - 1582 AD is correct, as it pertains to the precession of the Earth

No Gregorian calendar reform = each and every entry was falsified/faked/forged before 1662 AD, no historical records of Earth's precession, thus no historical records that Earth ever orbited the Sun

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Offline markjo

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Re: Would it be possible for a satellite to rotate around a FE
« Reply #64 on: June 11, 2019, 02:48:02 PM »
The solar eclipses for 1662 AD were recorded by Cassini:

https://amshistorica.unibo.it/25 (pg 28-30)
Sorry, I don't read Italian or Latin.  Do you have an English translation?
« Last Edit: June 11, 2019, 02:49:38 PM by markjo »
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

Re: Would it be possible for a satellite to rotate around a FE
« Reply #65 on: June 11, 2019, 03:01:01 PM »
The reason it appears circular when viewed from distance is the existence of a different index of refraction of ether for each latitude.
Even if it was conceded that there was some magic effect which bent light in such a way to make a disc appear as a circle no matter what your location or altitude (which is ludicrous, by the way), the video above doesn't just show a 2D circle, you can clearly see from the way that the shape of features change that it's a rotating sphere. Things moving across a flat disc just don't look like that.
In your world how is a disc generating enough light and heat to power the earth?
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Re: Would it be possible for a satellite to rotate around a FE
« Reply #66 on: June 11, 2019, 03:21:17 PM »
Things moving across a flat disc just don't look like that.

A convex disc, not a flat disc.


Re: Would it be possible for a satellite to rotate around a FE
« Reply #67 on: June 11, 2019, 04:35:42 PM »
A convex disc, not a flat disc.


Now the FE Sun will be a fusion reactor convex disc ?
Keep going, perhaps soon you will fall into the optical lenses geometry studies and realize a spherical one will be better suited for the job.
Can see from all angles, no matter what, easy, simple, practical, no complications.


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Offline stack

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Re: Would it be possible for a satellite to rotate around a FE
« Reply #68 on: June 11, 2019, 07:28:10 PM »
Things moving across a flat disc just don't look like that.

A convex disc, not a flat disc.



Nope, sorry. This is what is observed:



Not ever this:

Not much is known about the celestial bodies and their distances.

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Offline Tim Alphabeaver

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Re: Would it be possible for a satellite to rotate around a FE
« Reply #69 on: June 12, 2019, 04:28:06 PM »
Exact formula for the Biefeld-Brown effect:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2177793#msg2177793
Okay, I used equation (21) in your link. I don't see where this equation came from since I can't see a link to the source, but whatever. Using your numbers, for a plane at 9km, with a voltage of 20MV:
For some reason it's all in CGS units...
d=9e5 [cm]
e=1e4 [not sure units, got this value from your link]
V=6.67e4 statvolts [this is the CGS unit of voltage apparently]

gz(max)=0.002 g

That's right, the force provided is 0.2% of the force of gravity. Is my maths wrong?
**I move away from the infinite flat plane to breathe in

Re: Would it be possible for a satellite to rotate around a FE
« Reply #70 on: June 12, 2019, 07:34:00 PM »
I don't see where this equation came from since I can't see a link to the source, but whatever.

For such important formulas, I always include the sources.

Quote
With the addition of the Weyl vector potential theory, the formula for the Biefeld-Brown effect can now be derived:

https://arxiv.org/pdf/gr-qc/0507082.pdf

Weyl electrovacuum solutions and gauge invariance
Dr. B.V. Ivanov

https://arxiv.org/pdf/gr-qc/0502047.pdf

On the gravitational field induced by static electromagnetic sources
Dr. B.V Ivanov

Using your numbers, for a plane at 9km, with a voltage of 20MV:
For some reason it's all in CGS units...
d=9e5 [cm]


Brilliant.

d refers to the distance between the PLATES OF THE CAPACITOR.

And there are some 300 capacitors, if not more, on board the B-2 bomber (if they are not using the wings themselves as some huge capacitors to start with).

What we need is the dielectric constant for those capacitors, the distance between the plates, and the voltage applied for a single capacitor (that is, we also need to know the surface area of the plate of the capacitor).

So, any estimate must use at least these figures: d = 0.5 cm, e = 10,000 (if not more), surface area for a 45 cm  diameter of the plate, and the voltage at least 60 Kv per capacitor.

To use the formula for the entire aircraft, in case just a single very large capacitor is utilized, we'd need to know how the 20,000,000 volts are distributed across the wings, the distance chosen between the upper and lower plate of the capacitor, the entire surface area underneath the wings used for the capacitor, the dielectric being used.

« Last Edit: June 12, 2019, 07:43:45 PM by sandokhan »

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Offline markjo

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Re: Would it be possible for a satellite to rotate around a FE
« Reply #71 on: June 12, 2019, 08:04:01 PM »
To use the formula for the entire aircraft, in case just a single very large capacitor is utilized, we'd need to know how the 20,000,000 volts are distributed across the wings, the distance chosen between the upper and lower plate of the capacitor, the entire surface area underneath the wings used for the capacitor, the dielectric being used.
Just out of curiosity, how would one use the formula to determine how large the capacitor would need to be for a 100kg satellite in geostationary orbit above the flat earth?
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

Re: Would it be possible for a satellite to rotate around a FE
« Reply #72 on: June 12, 2019, 08:08:37 PM »
Let us now obtain a quick estimate, using 20Mv (66713 statvolts), d = 1/10 cm, e = 10000.

gzmax = 3.5gearth

Re: Would it be possible for a satellite to rotate around a FE
« Reply #73 on: June 12, 2019, 08:13:05 PM »
The formula for the gravitational force (which uses the area of the plate):

https://arxiv.org/pdf/gr-qc/0502047.pdf (equation 72, page 11)

Re: Would it be possible for a satellite to rotate around a FE
« Reply #74 on: June 12, 2019, 08:22:42 PM »
There is also an additional formula which calculates the maximum weight loss per capacitor, which uses even more advanced mathematics.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2019, 08:24:50 PM by sandokhan »

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Offline Tim Alphabeaver

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Re: Would it be possible for a satellite to rotate around a FE
« Reply #75 on: June 12, 2019, 08:29:19 PM »
I don't see where this equation came from since I can't see a link to the source, but whatever.

For such important formulas, I always include the sources.

Quote
With the addition of the Weyl vector potential theory, the formula for the Biefeld-Brown effect can now be derived:

https://arxiv.org/pdf/gr-qc/0507082.pdf

Weyl electrovacuum solutions and gauge invariance
Dr. B.V. Ivanov

https://arxiv.org/pdf/gr-qc/0502047.pdf

On the gravitational field induced by static electromagnetic sources
Dr. B.V Ivanov

Using your numbers, for a plane at 9km, with a voltage of 20MV:
For some reason it's all in CGS units...
d=9e5 [cm]


Brilliant.

d refers to the distance between the PLATES OF THE CAPACITOR.

And there are some 300 capacitors, if not more, on board the B-2 bomber (if they are not using the wings themselves as some huge capacitors to start with).

What we need is the dielectric constant for those capacitors, the distance between the plates, and the voltage applied for a single capacitor (that is, we also need to know the surface area of the plate of the capacitor).

So, any estimate must use at least these figures: d = 0.5 cm, e = 10,000 (if not more), surface area for a 45 cm  diameter of the plate, and the voltage at least 60 Kv per capacitor.

To use the formula for the entire aircraft, in case just a single very large capacitor is utilized, we'd need to know how the 20,000,000 volts are distributed across the wings, the distance chosen between the upper and lower plate of the capacitor, the entire surface area underneath the wings used for the capacitor, the dielectric being used.
This is actually quite interesting. Thanks for linking the source - it was a good read. And also sorry that I got the distance d wrong.
Presumably you'd need to know the mass of the aircraft as well. The equation (21) in the paper you linked just gives an acceleration, but that's not very helpful in the plane scenario. You'd need to convert it into a force and then you could work out the acceleration on the plane from there.

Fancy doing some maths?

**I move away from the infinite flat plane to breathe in

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Offline Tim Alphabeaver

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Re: Would it be possible for a satellite to rotate around a FE
« Reply #76 on: June 12, 2019, 08:52:58 PM »
So, any estimate must use at least these figures: d = 0.5 cm, e = 10,000 (if not more), surface area for a 45 cm  diameter of the plate, and the voltage at least 60 Kv per capacitor.
Okay, now that I understand this better, let's try again;
I'm using https://arxiv.org/pdf/gr-qc/0502047.pdf (equation 72, page 11)

We have
d=0.5cm
e=1e4 [units] (barium titanate)
V=6.67e4 statvolts
G=6.67e-8 [cgs units]
u=2.7 g/cm^3 (aluminium)
S=4.78e6 cm^2 (wing area of a B2 bomber)

This gives F=2.2e10 dyne [cgs] = 2.2e5 N [SI]
Gravitational force on an empty B2 is 7.1e4*9.81 = 6.8e5 N

So that's around 30% of the force required to lift a B2 bomber directly upwards. I'm actually really impressed, the force from these capacitors is almost the same thrust produced by the main engines. Did I make a mistake somewhere? CGS units can die in a fire.
**I move away from the infinite flat plane to breathe in

Re: Would it be possible for a satellite to rotate around a FE
« Reply #77 on: June 13, 2019, 04:55:04 AM »
Equation 21 is the most important.

u=2.7 g/cm^3 (aluminium)

u refers to the density of the dielectric, which is barium titanate (6.02 g/cm3).

Then, F = 4.906e10 dyne = 4.906e5 N (72%).


It is very possible that the B-2 bomber also uses supercapacitors which greatly increase the force.

https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1403/1403.6862.pdf

Then the dielectric constant can be 10^8.

Most likely they have found a way to apply a high voltage to supercapacitors (with solid dielectrics), something that cannot be achieved with the technology available to the public.

https://www.sandia.gov/ess-ssl/EESAT/2009_papers/Proposal%20to%20Build%20Supercapacitors%20Using%20Solid%20Dielectrics.pdf

https://technology.nasa.gov/patent/MFS-TOPS-77

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5512908/
« Last Edit: June 13, 2019, 05:36:53 AM by sandokhan »

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Offline Tim Alphabeaver

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Re: Would it be possible for a satellite to rotate around a FE
« Reply #78 on: June 13, 2019, 08:32:04 AM »
Well I guess we cracked it then.
I found this article about B-B effect and how it apparently doesn't work in a vacuum:
https://www.wired.com/2003/08/pwr-antigravity/

If this article is correct, then the B-B effect couldn't be used to levitate satellites (unless FE satellites are inside the atmosphere?). I also couldn't find any published articles about the B-B effect in a vacuum, which is disappointing.
**I move away from the infinite flat plane to breathe in

Re: Would it be possible for a satellite to rotate around a FE
« Reply #79 on: June 13, 2019, 08:58:02 AM »
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2178412#msg2178412 (formula for the maximum weight loss of a capacitor, the reason why various researched failed to record the Biefeld-Brown in vacuum)

I have included several videos with the Biefeld-Brown effect in vacuum, look for them.

Satellites require the use of Tesla's cosmic ray device combined with Hans Koller's apparatus and Reich's ether box to provide the voltage for the capacitors.