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Offline Rayzor

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Re: Has anyone ever flown a plane across Antarctica?
« Reply #20 on: July 06, 2015, 02:42:00 AM »
Some believe that they are actually crossing a commonly crossed peninsula off of the coast of the Ice Wall.

Others believe that Antarctica exists as a continent and the layout of the earth is different than the traditional Flat Earth model.

What is the current status of an "official"  flat earth map?    Is there a flat earth map better than the Gleason map?

http://maps.bpl.org/id/15442

That map works ok for Northern Hemisphere,   but fails  to give correct distances in the Southern Hemisphere.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Has anyone ever flown a plane across Antarctica?
« Reply #21 on: July 06, 2015, 05:21:02 AM »
Yes, that's the classic Monopole model. Proponents of that model would contest the claim that the southern distances are "incorrect" by asserting that the people who did things like circumnavigate Antarctica didn't go all the way around, since it is a very dangerous and featureless environment (and, for navigational reasons with the magnetic field, often circumnavigating at a distance where the coast could not even be seen), and really only traveled the distance they were supposed to travel along the coast in order to circumnavigate Antarctica under a Round Earth model.

There is another model, which we call the Bi-Polar model, where Antarctica exists as a continent. The explanation on this model is that the vessels circumnavigated Antarctica entirely. An illustration of this model is provided here:

http://wiki.tfes.org/Layout_of_the_Continents

I have another post which explains the route of the sun under this model, but summarily the sun is slowly moving between the Tropic of Cancer to the Tropic of Capricorn over the course of the year. For six months of the year the sun travels around the Northern Hemisphere and for six months the sun travels around the Southern Hemisphere. This causes the simultaneous long days for the northern summer and short days for the southern winter, and vice versa when it is winter in the north and summer in the south.

geckothegeek

Re: Has anyone ever flown a plane across Antarctica?
« Reply #22 on: July 31, 2015, 07:28:57 PM »
Those two "models"  you cited are simply well known projections made from the globe.

Flat Earth has never produced any accurate maps of the earth for the simple reason the earth is not flat.

Offline fairly

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Re: Has anyone ever flown a plane across Antarctica?
« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2015, 08:31:52 AM »
what is this a map of?

Offline sakura

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Re: Has anyone ever flown a plane across Antarctica?
« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2015, 01:20:21 PM »
what is this a map of?

This is a map of the globe earth.

In azimuthal projection.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Map_projection

because you cant draw 3D on 2D.

Re: Has anyone ever flown a plane across Antarctica?
« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2015, 12:04:48 AM »
Brand new here and have been watching numerous sites on YouTube.  If someone had the means to do a flight just around the coast of the Antarctic they could easily calculate a steady turn that would indicate either the edge of a Flat Earth border or the coast of a very large continent on a Globe Earth.  I am no scientist but it seems possible and I find it hard to believe that no one has tried this even for a short distance.

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Offline Pongo

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Re: Has anyone ever flown a plane across Antarctica?
« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2015, 04:03:11 PM »
Brand new here and have been watching numerous sites on YouTube.  If someone had the means to do a flight just around the coast of the Antarctic they could easily calculate a steady turn that would indicate either the edge of a Flat Earth border or the coast of a very large continent on a Globe Earth.  I am no scientist but it seems possible and I find it hard to believe that no one has tried this even for a short distance.

Most people "know" that the earth is round.  It's like knowing you will bleed if you cut yourself, why do it if you know it's true?

Offline wclubin

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Re: Has anyone ever flown a plane across Antarctica?
« Reply #27 on: September 17, 2015, 10:26:39 AM »
Brand new here and have been watching numerous sites on YouTube.  If someone had the means to do a flight just around the coast of the Antarctic they could easily calculate a steady turn that would indicate either the edge of a Flat Earth border or the coast of a very large continent on a Globe Earth.  I am no scientist but it seems possible and I find it hard to believe that no one has tried this even for a short distance.

I thought this same thing. The globe vs. the disk model produce two very different shorelines for the antarctic; one is a convex curve and the other is a concave curve (I am busting out my math background here hahaha). This could clearly be detected without even having to sail the entire thing. In fact this could possibly prove the flat earth model without even having to sail at all. To prove the flat earth model without doing any sailing all one has to do is be prevented from doing the experiment by the Antarctic Treaty. Then you would know the earth is flat.

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Offline Rayzor

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Re: Has anyone ever flown a plane across Antarctica?
« Reply #28 on: September 17, 2015, 11:23:38 AM »
There are daily flights to Amundsen Scott Station during the summer,  and there are private light aircraft flights to the South Pole,  you can fly to 89S and ski the last degree.

http://polarexplorers.com/expeditions/south-pole/last-degree-ski

Bit too expensive for my liking,  but maybe some flat earther can go and witness the 24 hour daylight, and watch the sun go horizontally around the horizon from right to left.   

« Last Edit: September 17, 2015, 12:20:52 PM by Rayzor »

Offline wclubin

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Re: Has anyone ever flown a plane across Antarctica?
« Reply #29 on: September 21, 2015, 12:22:04 PM »
There are daily flights to Amundsen Scott Station during the summer,  and there are private light aircraft flights to the South Pole,  you can fly to 89S and ski the last degree.

http://polarexplorers.com/expeditions/south-pole/last-degree-ski

Bit too expensive for my liking,  but maybe some flat earther can go and witness the 24 hour daylight, and watch the sun go horizontally around the horizon from right to left.

Why do all trips to the south pole enter Antarctica from the South America side of Antarctica. I have not done extensive research on this point, but so far all I can find are trips that begin in South America, in Chile to be precise. I even looked up Russian trips to the south pole and the ones I found start from Chile. Is there a problem with getting to the south pole from a different side of Antarctica?  ???

Offline huh?

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Re: Has anyone ever flown a plane across Antarctica?
« Reply #30 on: September 21, 2015, 02:14:56 PM »
I would guess it has to do with logistics

Travel distance, how many people can afford to and want to fly over Antarctica, where they are coming from, etc..
Also how interested a country is in hosting. Chile has a permeant base there and have been fairly active trying to establish a claim.

The entire continent is considered a natural reserve and according to a treaty requires permission from a country of origin.
This can also depend on a countries stance on environmentalism. McMurdo is also a permanent US station but it is scientific and the US does not seem to be interested in encouraging tourism.


Found an interesting article about an Australian who was the first to solo flight in a single-engine home-built aircraft over the South Pole in 2003.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Johanson
http://www.southpolestation.com/news/rv4/rv4.html

Offline wclubin

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Re: Has anyone ever flown a plane across Antarctica?
« Reply #31 on: September 22, 2015, 09:16:11 AM »
Ok but you do understand that a flat earther would guess differently, right?

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Offline Rayzor

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Re: Has anyone ever flown a plane across Antarctica?
« Reply #32 on: September 22, 2015, 10:02:42 AM »
Why do all trips to the south pole enter Antarctica from the South America side of Antarctica. I have not done extensive research on this point, but so far all I can find are trips that begin in South America, in Chile to be precise. I even looked up Russian trips to the south pole and the ones I found start from Chile. Is there a problem with getting to the south pole from a different side of Antarctica?  ???

No they don't, you just didn't look very hard.   There are tours leaving from NZ,  Tasmania,  South Africa  as well as  South America.

http://www.coolantarctica.com/Travel/antarctica_trip_new_zealand_australia.php

These guys in South Africa,  will fly you to the Geographic South Pole in a 9 day adventure holiday.
http://www.white-desert.com/adventures/emperors-south-pole/


Offline wclubin

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Re: Has anyone ever flown a plane across Antarctica?
« Reply #33 on: September 22, 2015, 11:42:52 AM »
These examples don't refute the flat earth theory. First of all the New Zealand/Australia trips don't even go to the south pole. And the South Africa trip does not mention the route they take to the south pole. For all we know they may come in a little past the 80 degree south line from the African point, but then skirt around westerly to the South American point, and then go the the south pole from there. In order the refute the flat earth theory you would have to know that the trip approaches the south pole directly going only south from the African entry point. But how would we know that?

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Offline Rayzor

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Re: Has anyone ever flown a plane across Antarctica?
« Reply #34 on: September 22, 2015, 01:20:54 PM »
These examples don't refute the flat earth theory. First of all the New Zealand/Australia trips don't even go to the south pole. And the South Africa trip does not mention the route they take to the south pole. For all we know they may come in a little past the 80 degree south line from the African point, but then skirt around westerly to the South American point, and then go the the south pole from there. In order the refute the flat earth theory you would have to know that the trip approaches the south pole directly going only south from the African entry point. But how would we know that?

Not quite right,  you only need to prove the existence of the South Pole  to refute the flat earth argument completely,  unless you can come up with a flat earth model that has two poles. 

How can you tell if you are actually at the geographic South Pole?    Well,  first you could look up and notice that the stars are revolving around a point that is directly overhead,   but that might not work too well in mid summer,  stars would be hard to see, since the sun never sets,  ( another proof of the globe ),   you could watch the sun moving around the horizon from right to left.    That would prove you were at the South Pole,  and not teleported magically to the North Pole.  Where the sun would be going the opposite way around the horizon.

The flight cost is 62,000 euro for a 9 day expedition,  and you would then be able to report back here,   confirm or deny the truth of what I'm saying.


Offline huh?

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Re: Has anyone ever flown a plane across Antarctica?
« Reply #35 on: September 22, 2015, 01:29:34 PM »
Ok but you do understand that a flat earther would guess differently, right?

I do not really care what Flat Earther's  would guess because no amount of evidence will ever change their mind

If everything else fails they can always claim "conspiracy"

So this Australian pilot is just a shill for NASA -etc..

I did not post it to convince anyone. I posted it to give people who are undecided the facts. 

Offline wclubin

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Re: Has anyone ever flown a plane across Antarctica?
« Reply #36 on: September 23, 2015, 11:30:41 AM »
Ok but you do understand that a flat earther would guess differently, right?

I do not really care what Flat Earther's  would guess because no amount of evidence will ever change their mind

If everything else fails they can always claim "conspiracy"

So this Australian pilot is just a shill for NASA -etc..

I did not post it to convince anyone. I posted it to give people who are undecided the facts.

Well it kind of is a fact that the south pole is pretty much on lock down with that antarctic treaty, so it would not be surprising if TPTB get to pic and choose who gets to run trips to Antarctica. So yes the pilot could be a shill.

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Offline Rayzor

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Re: Has anyone ever flown a plane across Antarctica?
« Reply #37 on: September 23, 2015, 01:38:16 PM »
So yes the pilot could be a shill.

I can see you didn't read the article,  the pilot wasn't authorised for the flight,  he kept his plans to fly to the pole a secret, and upset the people at McMurdo who refused to provide him the fuel for his return flight,  he ended up broke.  ABC South Australia did an interview with him.  The officials at McMurdo offered to send him home on a routine flight and send his plane by ship, and then bill him for it.  He refused,  and Polly Vacher,  lent him 400 liters of avgas to be able to fly back to NZ.   http://www.abc.net.au/stateline/sa/content/2003/s1089290.htm

Others have flown uninvited to the South Pole,   Dick Smith did it in 1988,  he flew a helicopter from North Pole to South Pole.  They interviewed him about the Johannsen flight.   Here is a excerpt from the transcript.  Very critical of those McMurdo Officals with a stick up their arse.

ALISON CALDWELL: But isn't it the case, though, that if the Americans decide to sell Jon Johanson some fuel, that any adventurer might just decide I am going to try and fly to the Antarctic because if I run out of fuel, I'll get some from the Americans?

DICK SMITH: Well, see they can't stop anyone from flying there. It's international territory and they end up with a duty of care. If they put a base, if they put a hotel on the South Col of Everest, they'd constantly have climbers knocking on their door saying can you help me and they'd have to because it's called a duty of care.

Now the Americans have built these huge bases in Antarctica for nothing other than political reasons and then they're astonished when adventurers, which will always go to Antarctica, they have since Mawson's and Shackleton's time, that adventurers occasional ask for help.

Well, it's just part of being there. If you want the political kudos of having a huge base mounted at the South Pole, you'll end up with adventurers calling in from time to time. Bad luck. Take the base away if you don't want it to happen.


In general the Antarctic Treaty prohibits military and commercial activity.  It's not "locked down" as such.



« Last Edit: September 23, 2015, 01:43:15 PM by Rayzor »

Offline huh?

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Re: Has anyone ever flown a plane across Antarctica?
« Reply #38 on: September 23, 2015, 02:05:42 PM »

Well it kind of is a fact that the south pole is pretty much on lock down with that antarctic treaty, so it would not be surprising if TPTB get to pic and choose who gets to run trips to Antarctica. So yes the pilot could be a shill.

Yes there is a treaty that governs Antarctica but that is not a "lock down".

Any country in the world can go there and conduct science or tourism.

According to the article on the private pilot, he did not actually file a correct flight plan so that no one would try and object before he made the flight.
He had to return to Murdock because he ran low on gas and made an un approved landing there.

I did not see any indication that he was fined or his pilots license was suspended or he was punished in any way.
 

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Offline Rayzor

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Re: Has anyone ever flown a plane across Antarctica?
« Reply #39 on: September 23, 2015, 04:13:09 PM »
Here is another transcript of an interview with Jon Johnason,  he makes it quite clear that no-one needs permission to overfly over the South Pole.
 
http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2003/s1009424.htm