Flat Earth Model and it's relationship to the Day Night Cycle
« on: January 17, 2019, 07:34:18 AM »
Hello,
Assuming I have managed to put the link in correctly there will be a video that I just created for ease of explanation that discusses the topic that the title is based. I am posting this here as I previously made a post on the forums here searching for some discussion but I feel my post was too vague and uninteresting to discuss so hopefully this discussion is a more interesting topic.



TLDR; in case you couldn't be bothered watching the video, I basically calculated the speed that the sun would travel at 2 locations, 1 northern Hemisphere and 1 southern Hemisphere and compared the 2 noticing a large variation in those speeds which doesn't fit with what's observed in reality and as such wished to discuss what could cause this discrepancy.

Thankyou for your time.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Flat Earth Model and it's relationship to the Day Night Cycle
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2019, 09:13:50 AM »
Take a look at this video:



Even though its faster, it's still only making one rotation per 24 hours.

If the opacity of atmosphere did not exist and the observer could see the sun at all times, it would make one circle per 24 hours for any observer.  If we cut it down to degrees per hour , for every 15 degrees the sun makes, one hour of time elapses.

For further analysis consider that the sun passes over more or less of the observer's sky between the seasons:


« Last Edit: January 17, 2019, 09:28:50 AM by Tom Bishop »

Re: Flat Earth Model and it's relationship to the Day Night Cycle
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2019, 09:25:34 AM »
Thankyou for your response, I understand that the sun still makes one rotation per day or 15 degrees per an hour, but I apologise if maybe I just don't understand well enough but wouldn't it be observable that speed difference.l I didn't touch on the calculations in the video but if I am further out from the rotation point then my 15 degrees per hour covers more distance than a point closer to the center of rotation? Would that not be noticeable or? I am just trying to have a better understanding of the topic so I appreciate the replies :)

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Flat Earth Model and it's relationship to the Day Night Cycle
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2019, 10:03:16 AM »
Here is what I believe the author of that video was trying to get at. Consider the following:

If you have a grasshopper that is ten feet away and that grasshopper jumps directly over you, it takes that grasshopper ten seconds to get to a position ten feet directly behind you.

Total distance (circle with a radius of 10 / 2) = 31.415 ft in 10 seconds

If that grasshopper is now one hundred feet away, and that grasshopper jumps directly over you, to get to a position 100 feet behind you at ten seconds, it would now be:

Total distance (circle with a radius of 100 / 2) = 314.1595 ft in 10 seconds

Now, clearly the second example is going much further through space. Yet, at the five second mark, both examples are going to be directly over the observer. At the 2.5 second mark and at the 7.5 second mark, both examples would also be in similar positions around the observer.

If the grasshopper were just a point in space, and it was ambiguous how far away it was from the observer, then the observer would not be able to tell the difference. The reason you wouldn't be able to tell a difference is because its a larger circle around the observer, and the positions would line up. Circles can behave in this way.

The author of the video is implying this, but on a horizontal circular basis instead of a perfectly vertical one.

As an aside, from what I've read, I actually do believe that the sun changes speed throughout the year somewhat, but it isn't extreme.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2019, 10:21:54 AM by Tom Bishop »

Re: Flat Earth Model and it's relationship to the Day Night Cycle
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2019, 10:20:44 AM »
Yes I agree that assuming both take the same amount of time the grasshoppers would bother appear above my head how ever the grasshopper 100feet away would (assuming it takes a perfect circular motion based on your calculation being Pi*r since its a semi circle) also appear 100feet over head while the other one would be 10 feet above my head?

The last point I don't understand, a point in space to which you didn't know how far away it was I presume means you are discussing the globe model, if that's the case then I will just skip over it as I am not interested in that topic, I wish to understand the FE model not discuss the Globe Earth.

Now if the last point was about FE then I am more confused as the Wiki suggests that the Sun is 3000 miles away so it's a known distance, even if its an approximate.

If you could elaborate what you meant by your final point that would be super helpful thankyou :)

Sorry adding an edit as apparently I didn't see your last sentence (still getting used to this site), I may be new at this but my calculations determined there would be around a 250% difference in speed between 2 locations New York Summer and Melbourne Summer, I would elaborate but I just made the whole video on it, I feel a 250% speed difference would be extreme enough to notice?
« Last Edit: January 17, 2019, 10:24:16 AM by JimmyFlac »

Offline edby

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Re: Flat Earth Model and it's relationship to the Day Night Cycle
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2019, 10:27:54 AM »
At 4:17 he says
Quote
Now technically, if you want to say, OK, it’s moving at 1,000 miles per hour down here but only 800 up here to cover the same thing, you can say that, and that’s true, technically, ah, but there’s a difference when you start putting time and direction together versus just a rotation. So one rotation per 24 hours. The sun does not have to speed up, or slow down.
But he contradicts himself. If the sun is moving at 800 miles an hour above the equator, then 1,000 miles an hour below the equator, it has by definition speeded up, with a corresponding change in momentum, and science asks how that is possible. Of course the angular speed is constant, i.e. 1 revolution per 24 hours, but this is not the same thing as speed across the ground.

Thanks Tom, by the way, for confirming that the measurement of longitude does not depend on the shape of the earth.

Re: Flat Earth Model and it's relationship to the Day Night Cycle
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2019, 10:34:09 AM »
Yes that is a solid point and why I am struggling with this topic, it is clear to me that on a flat earth model the sun indead does have to travel a greater distance in a shorter time which with the formula s=d/t where d increases, s must increase to maintain the same t, or if we want s to stay the same then t has to decrease