Re: Apparent size of the sun
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2019, 11:05:14 AM »
Hardly a coincidence. The article shows that the constant growing effect happens to all intense lights that recede into the distance.
No, the article merely claims it and shows some photos with glare.
What experiments have you done with the appropriate filters to demonstrate the effect?
In other threads you have demanded demonstration. This is your claim. Demonstrate it.

Those photos are evidence and demonstration. The "glare" was tested with two brands of polarized glasses, and remained in tact.
Ah yes. Polarized glasses.
Which, as was explained to you previously, do not prevent glare, they merely reduce it.
You will need to get a proper filter and try again.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Apparent size of the sun
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2019, 11:12:03 AM »
Hardly a coincidence. The article shows that the constant growing effect happens to all intense lights that recede into the distance.
No, the article merely claims it and shows some photos with glare.
What experiments have you done with the appropriate filters to demonstrate the effect?
In other threads you have demanded demonstration. This is your claim. Demonstrate it.

Those photos are evidence and demonstration. The "glare" was tested with two brands of polarized glasses, and remained in tact.
Ah yes. Polarized glasses.
Which, as was explained to you previously, do not prevent glare, they merely reduce it.
You will need to get a proper filter and try again.

What proper filters? Solar filters are just doing the same thing as sun glasses, as mentioned earlier.

Polarized lenses are proper filters. They prevent light from coming in horizontally and directly into the eye, which causes bloom and flare in the eye or camera lens. They don't eliminate all effects because all effects are not occuring in the eye or camera lens.

If the sun is reflecting off of the side of a car, no lens is going to make the sun disappear off of that car. It's only going to reduce the glare it causes inside of your eye.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2019, 11:22:55 AM by Tom Bishop »

Offline ChrisTP

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Re: Apparent size of the sun
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2019, 11:17:32 AM »

Then you must agree that if the sun were a projection upon the medium of the atmolayer that a solar filter would do nothing to get rid of it except to reduce glare in the eye or the camera lens.
I agree it would look similar to a heliocentric sun but I fail to see how you can prove the sun is a projection upon an atmolayer as opposed to the heliocentric sun any more than I can prove Megalodons are still alive in the ocean.

Can you observe the sun being a projection? Can you substantiate that claim with anything at all? This is pure imagination otherwise. It's not that I don't want you to be right though; I think it'd be a fantastic discovery and all the power to you if you do have any real findings.

Re: Apparent size of the sun
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2019, 11:45:57 AM »
What proper filters? Solar filters are just doing the same thing as sun glasses, as mentioned earlier.
All filters simply eliminate some of the light coming through them. A proper solar filter eliminates enough that you can safely view and photograph the sun through it and when doing so you see just the circle of the sun and not any glare around it.
Polarized lenses do remove some glare but I wouldn't recommend looking at the sun through them and they don't reduce all glare:

https://www.everydayhealth.com/vision/myths-about-polarized-glasses/

On the Wiki page in the stills you can clearly see a halo of light around the lights. That is glare. It stops you accurately measuring the size of the lights.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Apparent size of the sun
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2019, 11:49:22 AM »
What proper filters? Solar filters are just doing the same thing as sun glasses, as mentioned earlier.
All filters simply eliminate some of the light coming through them. A proper solar filter eliminates enough that you can safely view and photograph the sun through it and when doing so you see just the circle of the sun and not any glare around it.
Polarized lenses do remove some glare but I wouldn't recommend looking at the sun through them and they don't reduce all glare:

https://www.everydayhealth.com/vision/myths-about-polarized-glasses/

On the Wiki page in the stills you can clearly see a halo of light around the lights. That is glare. It stops you accurately measuring the size of the lights.

The sun is reflecting off of the side of a car. Will either a solar filter or a polarized lens, or any filter you choose, make the sun disappear off of the side of that car? If not, then it will do nothing for a reflection or projection and the matter is moot.

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Re: Apparent size of the sun
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2019, 03:25:49 PM »
The sun is reflecting off of the side of a car. Will either a solar filter or a polarized lens, or any filter you choose, make the sun disappear off of the side of that car? If not, then it will do nothing for a reflection or projection and the matter is moot.
Test it.

Or do you want someone else to do it for you?

I'll do it. "Make the sun disappear." What does that mean? Glare of the reflection disappear or the entire reflected light from the sun?

If we have sun today, I'll take photos of the sun reflecting off a car (roof and windshield) through both polarized lens and solar filter. We'll see if either or both does nothing. If either does something, the matter won't be moot.

And while we're on the topic of modeling this "projected sun" notion, does this proposal suggest the sun and observer are on the same side of the projection plane? Or is the sun projection on the other side, like in seeing a movie from the opposite side of the screen. I'm still trying to work out the orienting of the projection on the atmoplane concept.

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Offline WellRoundedIndividual

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Re: Apparent size of the sun
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2019, 03:35:51 PM »
I contest that the glasses shown in the youtube video from the wiki page here is not a good product and possibly a scam.

Here is a video of a visor attachment showing a polarized lens and it reduces the apparent size of the headlights. Go to about 44 second mark.

BobLawBlah.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Apparent size of the sun
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2019, 08:38:37 PM »
The sun is reflecting off of the side of a car. Will either a solar filter or a polarized lens, or any filter you choose, make the sun disappear off of the side of that car? If not, then it will do nothing for a reflection or projection and the matter is moot.
Test it.

Or do you want someone else to do it for you?

I'll do it. "Make the sun disappear." What does that mean? Glare of the reflection disappear or the entire reflected light from the sun?

If we have sun today, I'll take photos of the sun reflecting off a car (roof and windshield) through both polarized lens and solar filter. We'll see if either or both does nothing. If either does something, the matter won't be moot.

And while we're on the topic of modeling this "projected sun" notion, does this proposal suggest the sun and observer are on the same side of the projection plane? Or is the sun projection on the other side, like in seeing a movie from the opposite side of the screen. I'm still trying to work out the orienting of the projection on the atmoplane concept.

I've tested it. I wore polarized sunglasses and looked at a car. The reflection of the sun did not disappear.

Per your second question, Rowbotham provides an image in Earth Not a Globe.



In the above image the sun is projected on 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10.

One can also imagine the screen of the atmosphere as a "dome" around the observer rather than a plane.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2019, 08:55:04 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Bobby Shafto

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Re: Apparent size of the sun
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2019, 09:53:13 PM »

I've tested it. I wore polarized sunglasses and looked at a car. The reflection of the sun did not disappear.


I wouldn't expect it to, with polarized sunglasses.

I'm not sure why you are looking for something to disappear or not disappear, but the difference with polarized filtering and full-spectrum light filtering means that you shouldn't expect one to perform the same as the other.

I guarantee you that if you see a reflection of sunlight on a car's surface, using a solar filter will make it completely disappear, along the car and everything else. It will be completely dark.

If you see a reflection of the sun in the windshield, unlike a polarized sunglass lens, a solar filter will knock out everything EXCEPT a small circle of the sun...the actual sun; not the glare, flare and blooming of light that appears around an unfiltered sun. Your polarized filter won't do that. It's not supposed to, which is why you are confused in equating polarization with light filtering.

In a little while, I'll go out and take photos of filtered and unfiltered reflected sun and show you what I mean.

Per your second question, Rowbotham provides an image in Earth Not a Globe.



In the above image the sun is projected on 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10.

One can also imagine the screen of the atmosphere as a "dome" around the observer rather than a plane.

Like the Bat Signal projecting onto clouds or haze in the sky?
Or like a movie being projected onto a screen from behind the screen?

The car reflection model/illustration you proposed is like the former.
ENaG suggests to me the latter.

Which is it?

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Offline Bad Puppy

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Re: Apparent size of the sun
« Reply #29 on: January 12, 2019, 08:12:30 PM »
Here's a photo I took of the sun just before the solar eclipse on Aug. 21, 2017 - 1:47PM

500mm lens
ISO 100
F13
1/1000 sec
-2 step exposure

Taken with a filter that only allows UV A (320-385nm) to pass through.

Quote from: Tom Bishop
...circles do not exist and pi is not 3.14159...

Quote from: totallackey
Do you have any evidence of reality?

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Offline Bobby Shafto

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Re: Apparent size of the sun
« Reply #30 on: January 12, 2019, 10:06:14 PM »
My first contribution to the forum, almost 9 months ago.

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=9487.0