Flat earth map/distance to the sun/solar eclipses
« on: December 06, 2018, 04:27:12 AM »
Hey all.

I've been trying to find a consistent map that depicts the earth according to the views of flat-earthers. I cannot find one; some flat earthers say that the earth is a dome, some flat-earthers say that the earth is literally flat (in otherwords; it is a literal plane). If the earth is a literal plane and has no global curvature, then a one to one area preserving angle preserving projection from the flat earth onto a Cartesian coordinate system must necessarily exist based on the basics of differential geometry. To clarify; a dome has global curvature. A flat surface with small scale irregularities that average out over large scales to equal 0 has no global curvature. I would like to look at this map to calculate areas of countries and straight line (geodesic) distances between cities. If there is a 'flat earth' model where the earth has global curvature, then I would like if the person who provides the map could provide the mathematical projection used to create said map. This is because any truly curved surface (a 'truly' curved surface in this sense is a surface which is NOT globally homeomorphic to a flat surface) cannot have be mapped onto a flat-plane without angular/area distortion; hence the projection used is relevant.

In addition, I've been looking for the path that flat earthers suggest that the sun takes throughout the sky. How far away is the sun from the earth? How large is the sun? A sun that is close and small would have some interesting consequences; namely that the apparent size of the sun would change dramatically depending on where on the earth you are. My final question (for now) is this: Using the flat earth model; can we predict the date and time of solar eclipses? More importantly; can we predict the precise path which the eclipse will take? Can we also predict the percentage of the sun that will be blocked out, and the area of land that will be subject to the eclipse at any given time throughout the eclipse? I ask this because this is something which can be predicted to a very high degree of precision using conventional astronomy. As an example; the next total solar eclipse in North America will occur on April 8th, 2024. It's path will go through Mexico and 9 American States, in addition to going over Newfoundland in Canada. The total solar eclipse that occurred on August 21st, 2017 was predicted to occur decades before it actually did using conventional astronomy (the spherical earth model).

A final question I'd like to ask would be how the flat earth model predicts seasons, and specifically how/why the length of day varies throughout the year depending on your location. Take iceland for example. In iceland the day-length varies depending on what time of the year it is; from around may to august the sun sets for 3-4 hours per day, and you have 20-21 hours of daylight. In the middle of winter you have 5-6 hours of daylight. Iceland is a nation with a population of around 300 thousand people; this is a place where many people live, and they can attest to the seasonal variations in daylight hours. At the equator however daylight is approximately constant throughout the year. So the question then would be how the flat earth model can predict the precise and well documented seasonal variations in daylight hours as a function of your location.

I'd like to end by saying this; I'm not here to insult anybody. I'm not here to be rude to anybody. I hope that those who respond to this post have a similar attitude. Just because our beliefs may be quite different it doesn't mean that we have to be rude to each-other. We can show each-other the basic respect that we as human beings deserve to be shown.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2018, 04:46:50 AM by necronomicon »

Re: Flat earth map/distance to the sun/solar eclipses
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2018, 05:04:26 AM »
I'll try and go into some of your questions another time, but two quick things. First, make sure you've read the wiki thoroughly, link can be found at the top of the page. Most of your questions have surface level answers at least to them in the wiki. Second, it's generally best to pick one question to focus on in a thread. You're not going to get very far with a big list like this.

Lastly, welcome to the forums.

Re: Flat earth map/distance to the sun/solar eclipses
« Reply #2 on: Today at 03:38:16 AM »
So it's been quite a while now, so how about I focus on one question in particular, which I'll just re-post. I've read the wiki, and I haven't found an answer that explains reality yet.

"A final question I'd like to ask would be how the flat earth model predicts seasons, and specifically how/why the length of day varies throughout the year depending on your location. Take iceland for example. In iceland the day-length varies depending on what time of the year it is; from around may to august the sun sets for 3-4 hours per day, and you have 20-21 hours of daylight. In the middle of winter you have 5-6 hours of daylight. Iceland is a nation with a population of around 300 thousand people; this is a place where many people live, and they can attest to the seasonal variations in daylight hours. At the equator however daylight is approximately constant throughout the year. So the question then would be how the flat earth model can predict the precise and well documented seasonal variations in daylight hours as a function of your location."

Why does the model presented on the wiki not explain reality? First of all, if you had a 'spotlight' sun moving in a circle around the north pole you run into the problem that you'd have a circular region of the earth being illuminated at any given time. In reality what we see is half the planet being illuminated at once. Also; at each of the two equinoxes what we observe in reality is that all observers at all latitudes see the sun rising geographically due east and setting due west. On the model presented in the wiki, at the equinoxes the sun would appear to rise from a direction further north the further south from the equator that you go, and it would appear to set in a further east direction the closer you get to the north pole.

So to conclude; no. The questions I've asked don't have any self consistent answers on the wiki. Take the Bedford level experiment for example; the wiki ignores the fact that when the experiment was performed using a more precise experimental method (first by Alfred Wallace, who took up John Hampden's offer to disprove the results of the initial experiment by Rowbotham; incidentally John Hampden was arrested for threatening to murder Alfred Wallace following Wallace's experiment which disproved Rowbotham's results. The same court that ordered Hampden to be imprisoned for threatening to murder Alfred Wallace also ordered that Wallace return the money because Hampden retracted the bet at the last minute) that the results were entirely inconsistent with a flat earth. For a second time in 1901 Henry Oldham was easily able to reproduce Wallace's results by fixing three poles at equal height above water level at a certain distance apart along the river. Using a theodolite, it was found that the middle pole was three feet higher than the others, which is precisely what you would expect if the earth was spherical with a radius of about 6400 kilometers (with the height of the observer from the water being what it was, and the height of the poles from the water being what they were). Oldham's experiment settled the matter since he actually had photographic proof of his results, which Rowbotham and Hampden did not. This was in 1901.
« Last Edit: Today at 04:29:07 AM by necronomicon »