Saddam Hussein

Re: You are selfish.
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2014, 06:33:17 PM »
Psychological egoism is a useless tautology.  All it does is say that people only do things to benefit themselves, and therefore everything that everyone does is for their own benefit.  It's not falsifiable, and it doesn't tell us anything about behavior.

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Offline Снупс

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Re: You are selfish.
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2014, 08:52:23 PM »
But it's great for sparking an argument by putting in the form of an accusatory post and not really having any purpose! :P
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i also took an online quiz that said i was a giraffe.  and i guess you're dumb enough to believe that i must be because the internet said so.

Offline Blanko

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Re: You are selfish.
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2014, 08:56:46 PM »
I don't think it's accusatory. It just goes on to show that the term "selfish" shouldn't carry the negative connotation it typically does.

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Offline Particle Person

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Re: You are selfish.
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2014, 09:02:11 PM »
Replace every instance of the word "selfish" with "a shellfish" and this thread becomes much funnier.
Your mom is when your mom and you arent your mom.

Re: You are selfish.
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2014, 09:49:34 PM »
Every decision he makes is for his own benefit (or perceived benefit). There are no exceptions.
I was shopping at the grocery store the other day. I saw a credit card on the ground that did not belong to me. I gave it to the woman at the service counter in case the person that lost it went looking for it. I received no award, nor did I receive any "good feelings". I was just trying to help out another person.

Please explain how, by potentially assisting in helping a stranger find their lost credit card, I was motivated by my own benefit.
You don't think I'm going to post here sober, do you?  ???

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Offline spoon

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Re: You are selfish.
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2014, 09:52:27 PM »
I was just trying to help out another person.
Why? There has to be a reason for this. You don't just accidentally help people out.
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Re: You are selfish.
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2014, 10:08:04 PM »
Every decision he makes is for his own benefit (or perceived benefit). There are no exceptions.
I was shopping at the grocery store the other day. I saw a credit card on the ground that did not belong to me. I gave it to the woman at the service counter in case the person that lost it went looking for it. I received no award, nor did I receive any "good feelings". I was just trying to help out another person.

Please explain how, by potentially assisting in helping a stranger find their lost credit card, I was motivated by my own benefit.

You have posted this on an online forum.  By making this public you reveal that you have sought to increase your own positive reputation.
I don't even care to find out what you're doing wrong, but I'm sure you're doing something wrong.

Saddam Hussein

Re: You are selfish.
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2014, 10:27:13 PM »
Every decision he makes is for his own benefit (or perceived benefit). There are no exceptions.
I was shopping at the grocery store the other day. I saw a credit card on the ground that did not belong to me. I gave it to the woman at the service counter in case the person that lost it went looking for it. I received no award, nor did I receive any "good feelings". I was just trying to help out another person.

Please explain how, by potentially assisting in helping a stranger find their lost credit card, I was motivated by my own benefit.

Subconsciously you were hoping for good feelings and/or trying to avoid any bad feelings from not doing this.

Re: You are selfish.
« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2014, 12:25:40 AM »
Why? There has to be a reason for this. You don't just accidentally help people out.
Because I believe in helping other people. People gotta look out for each other. And, for the record, it's very easy to accidentally help other people. I believe altruism is good for the sake of altruism.

You have posted this on an online forum.  By making this public you reveal that you have sought to increase your own positive reputation.
An almost-anonymous forum filled with people I hate. Even if that had any positive contribution on my reputation, that was not my motivation.

Subconsciously you were hoping for good feelings and/or trying to avoid any bad feelings from not doing this.
Nope. If I wanted good feelings, I'd go buy a bag of drugs. It's a lot easier to consume chemicals to feel good feelings than to pick up a piece of plastic for twenty seconds.
You don't think I'm going to post here sober, do you?  ???

I have embraced my Benny Franko side. I'm sleazy.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: You are selfish.
« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2014, 12:31:19 AM »
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2091084/Father-sacrifices-life-leaping-road-save-disabled-son-run-down.html

How was this a selfish act?

The father was 61. The likelihood of him fathering additional children is small. He sacrificed himself to save his son so that his lineage could live on.

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local/new_york&id=8962591

It also happens with strangers.

He thought he would have enough time to save the old man and himself. I doubt he would have saved the old man if he knew his own death would be certain.

People do such stunts for various reasons. Often times they quote Karma, an expectation that something equally good will happen to them -- a selfish reason.
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: You are selfish.
« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2014, 12:36:10 AM »
Why? There has to be a reason for this. You don't just accidentally help people out.
Because I believe in helping other people. People gotta look out for each other. And, for the record, it's very easy to accidentally help other people. I believe altruism is good for the sake of altruism.

A belief that people will look out for you if you look out for them sounds like a pretty selfish reason to me. You are suggesting that you did it because you want to promote altruism in society so that everyone will look out for you and/or the people you care about.
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

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Offline Sean

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Re: You are selfish.
« Reply #31 on: January 11, 2014, 12:41:40 AM »
What about someone who jumps on a grenade for others
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Offline Rama Set

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Re: You are selfish.
« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2014, 12:57:39 AM »
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2091084/Father-sacrifices-life-leaping-road-save-disabled-son-run-down.html

How was this a selfish act?

The father was 61. The likelihood of him fathering additional children is small. He sacrificed himself to save his son so that his lineage could live on.

Maybe, which means that it does not benefit him, but rather the future. This is not selfish. You should also not write as if you are certain about his motivation. It's rather dishonest.

Quote
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local/new_york&id=8962591

It also happens with strangers.

He thought he would have enough time to save the old man and himself. I doubt he would have saved the old man if he knew his own death would be certain.

People do such stunts for various reasons. Often times they quote Karma, an expectation that something equally good will happen to them -- a selfish reason.

Often they also cite an instinctual impulse to help. In fact I have never seen an interview with a newly minted hero where they cite karmic payback as the reason. Either way, the door is still open for selfless sacrifice.
You don't get races of anything ... accept people.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: You are selfish.
« Reply #33 on: January 11, 2014, 01:24:00 AM »
What about someone who jumps on a grenade for others

Jumping on a grenade for others isn't entirely selfless. You want to protect your friends and troop mates from harm because they mean something to you. War is a team effort. You want YOUR team to win. You want YOUR friends to survive. Selfish.

Why don't we see any battlefield reports of people jumping on grenades or sacrificing themselves to save their enemies?
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

Re: You are selfish.
« Reply #34 on: January 11, 2014, 01:36:53 AM »
A belief that people will look out for you if you look out for them sounds like a pretty selfish reason to me. You are suggesting that you did it because you want to promote altruism in society so that everyone will look out for you and/or the people you care about.
I don't believe people will look out for me just because I try and help people. I'd be an idiot if I thought the world worked like that. I didn't do it to try and change society: I just did it because it's a nice thing to do. It's not as though I attached a note to the credit card saying the person who it belonged to "owed" me or anything of the nature.
You don't think I'm going to post here sober, do you?  ???

I have embraced my Benny Franko side. I'm sleazy.

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Offline spoon

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Re: You are selfish.
« Reply #35 on: January 11, 2014, 01:38:24 AM »
I just did it because it's a nice thing to do.
And how did you feel about doing a nice thing for somebody else?
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: You are selfish.
« Reply #36 on: January 11, 2014, 01:40:04 AM »
Maybe, which means that it does not benefit him, but rather the future. This is not selfish. You should also not write as if you are certain about his motivation. It's rather dishonest.

Sacrificing yourself to ensure the future of your genes seems selfish. He got something important in return for it. Do you think he would have done the same thing for his lawyer?

Quote
Quote
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local/new_york&id=8962591

It also happens with strangers.

He thought he would have enough time to save the old man and himself. I doubt he would have saved the old man if he knew his own death would be certain.

People do such stunts for various reasons. Often times they quote Karma, an expectation that something equally good will happen to them -- a selfish reason.

Often they also cite an instinctual impulse to help. In fact I have never seen an interview with a newly minted hero where they cite karmic payback as the reason. Either way, the door is still open for selfless sacrifice.

Well, the guy in the article mentioned something about God and religion at the end. He probably thought he was doing God's work and assumed he would be rewarded justly in his act. Religion ingrains it pretty hard into you that you should do good to others so they may do good to you, and that all good acts are rewarded by God, etc.

This guy didn't save the man with intent to sacrifice himself. It says pretty clearly in the article that the situation was such that he had time to help the man to safety, and get back to the wall to climb up, which he did with some assistance.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2014, 02:10:22 AM by Tom Bishop »
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

Re: You are selfish.
« Reply #37 on: January 11, 2014, 02:28:03 AM »
And how did you feel about doing a nice thing for somebody else?
I felt like it was the proper thing to do, but I hardly got an endorphin rush or any type of "good feelings". If I wanted chemicals in my brain, I'd do drugs or masturbate or sky dive or some shit. If my goal was exclusively, or even primarily, my own pleasure there are a lot easier ways to do it than picking up a piece of plastic.
You don't think I'm going to post here sober, do you?  ???

I have embraced my Benny Franko side. I'm sleazy.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: You are selfish.
« Reply #38 on: January 11, 2014, 02:35:14 AM »
And how did you feel about doing a nice thing for somebody else?
I felt like it was the proper thing to do, but I hardly got an endorphin rush or any type of "good feelings". If I wanted chemicals in my brain, I'd do drugs or masturbate or sky dive or some shit. If my goal was exclusively, or even primarily, my own pleasure there are a lot easier ways to do it than picking up a piece of plastic.

And how would you have felt if you had ignored it and just left it laying there?
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: You are selfish.
« Reply #39 on: January 11, 2014, 02:55:43 AM »
What about someone who jumps on a grenade for others

Jumping on a grenade for others isn't entirely selfless. You want to protect your friends and troop mates from harm because they mean something to you. War is a team effort. You want YOUR team to win. You want YOUR friends to survive. Selfish.

Why don't we see any battlefield reports of people jumping on grenades or sacrificing themselves to save their enemies?

Every action you undertake necessarily has some connection to you but you cannot tell me that jumping on a grenade has some intrinsic emotional, mental or physical benefit to a person. They jump on it, then die. No karma for them, no reciprocated altruism. Dead.
You don't get races of anything ... accept people.