On circumnavigation.
« on: April 24, 2018, 06:22:30 PM »
Earth not a Globe asserts that circumnavigation is possible on a flat Earth, saying that if one keeps going west, they can return from the east. I won't debate the validity of the experiment Rowbotham gives to prove this; I can prove that the results will be consistent.

As usual, however, the proof here is being gravely misunderstood. The proof is not that you can leave to the west and return from the east. The proof is that a ship can leave in a straight line and return in the complete opposite direction.

So tell me once more, how can the earth be circumnavigated if it's flat?
Recommended reading: We Have No Idea by Jorge Cham and Daniel Whiteson

Turtle Town, a game made by my brothers and their friends, is now in private beta for the demo! Feedback so far has been mostly positive. Contact me if you would like to play.

*

Offline Stagiri

  • *
  • Posts: 146
  • You can call me Peter
    • View Profile
    • Stagiri Blog
Re: On circumnavigation.
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2018, 06:28:52 PM »
There's been a little bit of conversation about this topic in this thread.
Dr Rowbotham was accurate in his experiments.
How do you know without repeating them?
Because they don't need to be repeated, they were correct.

Re: On circumnavigation.
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2018, 06:53:45 PM »
There's been a little bit of conversation about this topic in this thread.
Ah, I see. To respond to that thread:

  • If I were traveling west around Antarctica, I'd make course corrections to the left. Would I actually be turning to the right?
  • By asserting that I can't go in a straight line for that long, you are rejecting an axiom of not only Euclidean geometry, but nearly every geometric system in existence.
  • Give me a long enough rope, and I can go in a straight line for miles.
Recommended reading: We Have No Idea by Jorge Cham and Daniel Whiteson

Turtle Town, a game made by my brothers and their friends, is now in private beta for the demo! Feedback so far has been mostly positive. Contact me if you would like to play.

JohnAdams1145

Re: On circumnavigation.
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2018, 11:10:33 AM »
Another idea to consider:
The FE unipolar map only allows circumnavigation traveling due East or due West. FE people say navigation instruments are inaccurate enough that we can't travel in a straight line on the ocean. Why, then, is it the case that I can point exactly due East or due West to end up back where I was?

Also, what do FE people have to say if I circumnavigate the Earth near the South Pole traveling slightly above East?

Offline SiDawg

  • *
  • Posts: 142
    • View Profile
Re: On circumnavigation.
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2018, 12:36:37 PM »
So apparently compasses guide you around in a big circle, and so does GPS, and the people who built GPS arn't aware the earth is flat (and apparently arn't aware the satellites they launched are really on the land? and er the altitude readings are i dunno, magic or something)

Oh and don't try navigating by the stars like people having been doing for thousands of years: you might THINK you're travelling in a straight line because you're referencing a star and know it's position based on the time of the night, but apparently the stars are all rotating with you.. .and er, so not only are you going in a big giant circle, but some unlucky dude that left 6 months later and is using the same star is really really going in the wrong direction... Basically the entire polynesian culture are in on the flat earth conspiracy and didn't use stars to navigate the way that all the history books say, they used flat earth stars. How else would they navigate thousands of miles and end up in the right place on tiny islands right?

Oh but wait that doesn't make sense... Oh wait! "magnetism"
Quote from: Round Eyes
Long range, high altitude, potentially solar powered airplanes [...] If the planes are travelling approx 15 miles about earth, that works out to around 2,200 mph, or Mach 3

Offline Tontogary

  • *
  • Posts: 431
    • View Profile
Re: On circumnavigation.
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2018, 01:02:06 PM »
Another idea to consider:
The FE unipolar map only allows circumnavigation traveling due East or due West. FE people say navigation instruments are inaccurate enough that we can't travel in a straight line on the ocean. Why, then, is it the case that I can point exactly due East or due West to end up back where I was?

Also, what do FE people have to say if I circumnavigate the Earth near the South Pole traveling slightly above East?

Either way with a FE concept (monopole only) with the Center at the North Pole, and the circumfrance at the extreme south and the meridians centered on the North Pole like the spokes of a shell, it would work out the same on a globe as the flat earth.

If you sail 090 at 60 degrees south you end up following a parallel of latitude, and end up at 60 south after travelling 10,800 nautical miles, as the compass (if it is corrected for variation and deviation) will keep you heading east.

Apparently the same happens on a flat earth, as you constantly cross the meridians at right angles, therefore you you sail in a big circle around the circumfrance, the only difference is that you have to sail 56,548 miles to do it.

This is where I use a FE argument against them.......
In previous threads it was argued that an aircraft flying around a GE must make constant downwards adjustments to keep flying around the world which proves the earth is flat. Using the exact same argument then why does a ship not need to make constant heading adjustments away from the equator to keep sailing on a compass heading of 090? Therefore this proves the earth cannot be flat!

On the other question, of you sail on a heading of say 088 degrees, slightly north of east, on both models you will spiral towards the North Pole (or Center) until you bump into a land mass.

Also, if you haven't heard of bronies before, that reflects poorly on your understanding of the world that surrounds you. It's practically impossible not to know about them.

Re: On circumnavigation.
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2018, 01:06:47 PM »
Guys guys remember...

To sail or fly in a straight line, you typically use a compass.
So when said compass starts showing you're veering off course, even if you haven't changed your steering, you will correct.  It's pretty normal.

And stars are the same way.  They move in the sky anyway, regardless of round or flat earth model.  Round earth they rotate in the sky around a central point (cause the earth rotates) and they move aross the sky at the same time because the earth revolves around the sun, thus moving it's position relative to the Earth.

In other words...

You can totally travel in a giant circle while thinking you're going straight.

Re: On circumnavigation.
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2018, 01:26:31 PM »
And stars are the same way.  They move in the sky anyway, regardless of round or flat earth model.  Round earth they rotate in the sky around a central point (cause the earth rotates) and they move aross the sky at the same time because the earth revolves around the sun, thus moving it's position relative to the Earth.
Actually, they move around 2 central points.
Quote
In other words...

You can totally travel in a giant circle while thinking you're going straight.
What if I'm traveling in a circle around Antarctica? You haven't answered that.
Recommended reading: We Have No Idea by Jorge Cham and Daniel Whiteson

Turtle Town, a game made by my brothers and their friends, is now in private beta for the demo! Feedback so far has been mostly positive. Contact me if you would like to play.

JohnAdams1145

Re: On circumnavigation.
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2018, 03:57:29 AM »
Another idea to consider:
The FE unipolar map only allows circumnavigation traveling due East or due West. FE people say navigation instruments are inaccurate enough that we can't travel in a straight line on the ocean. Why, then, is it the case that I can point exactly due East or due West to end up back where I was?

Also, what do FE people have to say if I circumnavigate the Earth near the South Pole traveling slightly above East?

Either way with a FE concept (monopole only) with the Center at the North Pole, and the circumfrance at the extreme south and the meridians centered on the North Pole like the spokes of a shell, it would work out the same on a globe as the flat earth.

If you sail 090 at 60 degrees south you end up following a parallel of latitude, and end up at 60 south after travelling 10,800 nautical miles, as the compass (if it is corrected for variation and deviation) will keep you heading east.

Apparently the same happens on a flat earth, as you constantly cross the meridians at right angles, therefore you you sail in a big circle around the circumfrance, the only difference is that you have to sail 56,548 miles to do it.

This is where I use a FE argument against them.......
In previous threads it was argued that an aircraft flying around a GE must make constant downwards adjustments to keep flying around the world which proves the earth is flat. Using the exact same argument then why does a ship not need to make constant heading adjustments away from the equator to keep sailing on a compass heading of 090? Therefore this proves the earth cannot be flat!

On the other question, of you sail on a heading of say 088 degrees, slightly north of east, on both models you will spiral towards the North Pole (or Center) until you bump into a land mass.

Well, I only said near the South Pole to resolve the problem of there being land, so you can't sail without turning, but the general criticism remains valid: if you don't sail due East or West, on the unipolar map you end up somewhere other than you started. If you don't sail due East or West in real life, you still end up where you started.