Why would we be lied to about the shape of the Earth?
« on: December 09, 2017, 12:38:09 AM »
[From a globe-earther]

So what is the motive for the government or whoever to lie about the shape of the Earth?
Like what benefits does it give them?
I can't see any. It makes no sense to me.

Why not just say it was flat?

Also, whoever is lying to us would have had to have started hundreds of years ago because even around the time Christopher Columbus was alive, it was commonly accepted that the Earth was round. (It's a false myth that he proved the Earth was round, everyone knew already)

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Why would we be lied to about the shape of the Earth?
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2017, 01:31:28 AM »
[From a globe-earther]

So what is the motive for the government or whoever to lie about the shape of the Earth?
Like what benefits does it give them?
I can't see any. It makes no sense to me.

Why not just say it was flat?

Also, whoever is lying to us would have had to have started hundreds of years ago because even around the time Christopher Columbus was alive, it was commonly accepted that the Earth was round. (It's a false myth that he proved the Earth was round, everyone knew already)

Why not research the material we provide and see what we have to say on the matter?

Re: Why would we be lied to about the shape of the Earth?
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2017, 01:35:39 AM »
Why not just answer my question since you already know?

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Offline Tom Haws

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Re: Why would we be lied to about the shape of the Earth?
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2017, 05:49:33 AM »
Why not research the material we provide and see what we have to say on the matter?

I think I understand the desire to get us into the material. Maybe you could supply specific links.
Civil Engineer (professional mapper)

Thanks to Tom Bishop for his courtesy.

No flat map can predict commercial airline flight times among New York, Paris, Cape Town, & Buenos Aires.

The FAQ Sun animation does not work with sundials. And it has the equinox sun set toward Seattle (well N of NW) at my house in Mesa, AZ.

Re: Why would we be lied to about the shape of the Earth?
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2017, 03:14:06 PM »
The government has lied about many things, such as the moon landing and the existence of the "moon". Not only was 9/11 planned to boost the US economy, but the government is lying to protect us from aliens. Various experiments are being conducted in area 51 as we speak. It's only a matter of time until they get to us.

In fact, the government wants the aliens to come to us in order to experiment on them. If the Earth is round, it would be impossible for the aliens to land, as their spaceship would fly off. But since the Aliens know the Earth is flat, they can land. Once they do, our military immediately seizes them.

God bless America.

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Offline gizmo910

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Re: Why would we be lied to about the shape of the Earth?
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2017, 07:29:23 PM »
The government has lied about many things, such as the moon landing and the existence of the "moon". Not only was 9/11 planned to boost the US economy, but the government is lying to protect us from aliens. Various experiments are being conducted in area 51 as we speak. It's only a matter of time until they get to us.

In fact, the government wants the aliens to come to us in order to experiment on them. If the Earth is round, it would be impossible for the aliens to land, as their spaceship would fly off. But since the Aliens know the Earth is flat, they can land. Once they do, our military immediately seizes them.

God bless America.

What is your proof of these "lies"?
Flat Earth Society has members all around the globe.

“When you surround an army, leave an outlet free. Do not press a desperate foe too hard.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War

;)

devils advocate

Re: Why would we be lied to about the shape of the Earth?
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2017, 11:25:00 PM »
The government has lied about many things, such as the moon landing and the existence of the "moon". Not only was 9/11 planned to boost the US economy, but the government is lying to protect us from aliens. Various experiments are being conducted in area 51 as we speak. It's only a matter of time until they get to us.

In fact, the government wants the aliens to come to us in order to experiment on them. If the Earth is round, it would be impossible for the aliens to land, as their spaceship would fly off. But since the Aliens know the Earth is flat, they can land. Once they do, our military immediately seizes them.

God bless America.

If 911 was planned it was to boost the economy of the federal bank not the US economy, I.e. the bankers who mint dollars at cost to the US government, at the expense of the citizens. Zeitgeist, the movie, interesting movie....

Re: Why would we be lied to about the shape of the Earth?
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2017, 02:43:43 PM »
The government has lied about many things, such as the moon landing and the existence of the "moon". Not only was 9/11 planned to boost the US economy, but the government is lying to protect us from aliens. Various experiments are being conducted in area 51 as we speak. It's only a matter of time until they get to us.

In fact, the government wants the aliens to come to us in order to experiment on them. If the Earth is round, it would be impossible for the aliens to land, as their spaceship would fly off. But since the Aliens know the Earth is flat, they can land. Once they do, our military immediately seizes them.

God bless America.

What is your proof of these "lies"?

Hidden by the government of course, just like evidence that the Earth is flat.

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Offline junker

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Re: Why would we be lied to about the shape of the Earth?
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2017, 04:11:40 PM »
The government has lied about many things, such as the moon landing and the existence of the "moon". Not only was 9/11 planned to boost the US economy, but the government is lying to protect us from aliens. Various experiments are being conducted in area 51 as we speak. It's only a matter of time until they get to us.

In fact, the government wants the aliens to come to us in order to experiment on them. If the Earth is round, it would be impossible for the aliens to land, as their spaceship would fly off. But since the Aliens know the Earth is flat, they can land. Once they do, our military immediately seizes them.

God bless America.

Your troll game is weak. Keep it out of the upper fora.

Warned.



Hidden by the government of course, just like evidence that the Earth is flat.

2nd warning.
Wait, is Thork gay or does he just have a thing for lipstick?

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Offline Tom Haws

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Re: Why would we be lied to about the shape of the Earth?
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2017, 04:29:23 PM »
I think the better question is how we could let ourselves and our children become so flaccid of mental acuity and basic geometry literacy that we would need anybody to tell us what shape the earth is when the sun, moon, and stars are there rotating, rising, setting, etc for us to observe every day of our lives. The only possible way the most intelligent among us could be satisfied with a flat earth model is if he/she lived in a society confined to a single small valley and never traveled from it.

Not "Why would NASA...?", but "How could We...?". Get out of the valley! Travel! Sail on a ship! Watch the sun, shadows, moon, and stars! Make notes. See cities and mountains rise and fall. Know!
Civil Engineer (professional mapper)

Thanks to Tom Bishop for his courtesy.

No flat map can predict commercial airline flight times among New York, Paris, Cape Town, & Buenos Aires.

The FAQ Sun animation does not work with sundials. And it has the equinox sun set toward Seattle (well N of NW) at my house in Mesa, AZ.

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Offline Zanz

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Re: Why would we be lied to about the shape of the Earth?
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2017, 06:43:00 PM »
The government has lied about many things, such as the moon landing and the existence of the "moon". Not only was 9/11 planned to boost the US economy, but the government is lying to protect us from aliens. Various experiments are being conducted in area 51 as we speak. It's only a matter of time until they get to us.

In fact, the government wants the aliens to come to us in order to experiment on them. If the Earth is round, it would be impossible for the aliens to land, as their spaceship would fly off. But since the Aliens know the Earth is flat, they can land. Once they do, our military immediately seizes them.

God bless America.

I stopped at the existence of the Moon bit. Do you know that mythology and evidence of the Moon dates way back before any government with holographic technology even existed. I know you are an obvious troll, but do you know that the Earth and all of Mankind wasn't created in 1776?

also, why god bless America if the US government is spreading all the alleged 'lies'.
I still believe its round don't worry.

Re: Why would we be lied to about the shape of the Earth?
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2017, 07:35:03 PM »
The government has lied about many things, such as the moon landing and the existence of the "moon". Not only was 9/11 planned to boost the US economy, but the government is lying to protect us from aliens. Various experiments are being conducted in area 51 as we speak. It's only a matter of time until they get to us.

In fact, the government wants the aliens to come to us in order to experiment on them. If the Earth is round, it would be impossible for the aliens to land, as their spaceship would fly off. But since the Aliens know the Earth is flat, they can land. Once they do, our military immediately seizes them.

God bless America.

Your troll game is weak. Keep it out of the upper fora.

Warned.



Hidden by the government of course, just like evidence that the Earth is flat.

2nd warning.



Sorry I don't mean to troll. I'm just discussing possible theories. The government could be lying, we never know.

Re: Why would we be lied to about the shape of the Earth?
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2017, 07:37:43 PM »
The government has lied about many things, such as the moon landing and the existence of the "moon". Not only was 9/11 planned to boost the US economy, but the government is lying to protect us from aliens. Various experiments are being conducted in area 51 as we speak. It's only a matter of time until they get to us.

In fact, the government wants the aliens to come to us in order to experiment on them. If the Earth is round, it would be impossible for the aliens to land, as their spaceship would fly off. But since the Aliens know the Earth is flat, they can land. Once they do, our military immediately seizes them.

God bless America.

Your troll game is weak. Keep it out of the upper fora.

Warned.



Hidden by the government of course, just like evidence that the Earth is flat.

2nd warning.


Also, why did you give me 2 warnings at once? (I'm new here)

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Offline Tom Haws

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Re: Why would we be lied to about the shape of the Earth?
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2017, 07:58:05 PM »
Also, why did you give me 2 warnings at once? (I'm new here)

You have to forgive junker and me. We are both low on our meds this week. So we are a bit testy.

I have another possibility. Maybe the Flat Earth Society is government funded and lying to us as a test of the success of the U.S. educational system. You put out these FE ideas and then you measure how well they stick. If they stick very well, you know you have to fix the educational system. If they don't stick, you know your basic math and world awareness education is okay. For example, the wiki article on Eratosthenes is a measure for detecting errors of trigonometry and plane projection. It's all designed to improve the sharpness of mind in the populace.
Civil Engineer (professional mapper)

Thanks to Tom Bishop for his courtesy.

No flat map can predict commercial airline flight times among New York, Paris, Cape Town, & Buenos Aires.

The FAQ Sun animation does not work with sundials. And it has the equinox sun set toward Seattle (well N of NW) at my house in Mesa, AZ.

Offline Roger G

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Re: Why would we be lied to about the shape of the Earth?
« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2017, 10:41:32 PM »
Also, why did you give me 2 warnings at once? (I'm new here)

You have to forgive junker and me. We are both low on our meds this week. So we are a bit testy.

I have another possibility. Maybe the Flat Earth Society is government funded and lying to us as a test of the success of the U.S. educational system. You put out these FE ideas and then you measure how well they stick. If they stick very well, you know you have to fix the educational system. If they don't stick, you know your basic math and world awareness education is okay. For example, the wiki article on Eratosthenes is a measure for detecting errors of trigonometry and plane projection. It's all designed to improve the sharpness of mind in the populace.

An interesting response Tom  :) That would be a very interesting government experiment, to introduce all those amazing conspiracy theories to test the gullibility and education level of the people. It could be a very useful pointer to how people would respond to a foreign attempt to arouse the population by sewing targeted misinformation. The other hypothesis is that the whole conspiracy cult was started by foreign intervention anyway to influence the US population against the government. This could of course lead to a mistrust of all government institutions and the election of a rank outsider with anti establishment ideas. Mmmm, no surely not  ::)

Roger

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Offline Tom Haws

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Re: Why would we be lied to about the shape of the Earth?
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2017, 12:21:23 AM »
Hmm. So Tom Bishop is a Russian spy. That would explain why he is so dedicated.
Civil Engineer (professional mapper)

Thanks to Tom Bishop for his courtesy.

No flat map can predict commercial airline flight times among New York, Paris, Cape Town, & Buenos Aires.

The FAQ Sun animation does not work with sundials. And it has the equinox sun set toward Seattle (well N of NW) at my house in Mesa, AZ.

Re: Why would we be lied to about the shape of the Earth?
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2017, 05:08:56 AM »
[From a globe-earther]

So what is the motive for the government or whoever to lie about the shape of the Earth?
Like what benefits does it give them?
I can't see any. It makes no sense to me.

Why not just say it was flat?

Also, whoever is lying to us would have had to have started hundreds of years ago because even around the time Christopher Columbus was alive, it was commonly accepted that the Earth was round. (It's a false myth that he proved the Earth was round, everyone knew already)
Because big science once really believed it was round, for many of the same reasons you believe it's round today, and Aristotle believed it was round 2500 years ago, but proved themselves to themselves wrong when they entered space in the mid 20th century, and to their surprise and chagrin, stared back at a flat earth.
If they came clean and fessed up now, big science and big government would lose much of their credibility, so they have to keep the lie going.
Plus there's a lot of money in the lie anyway, and they lie about where a lot of the money goes, a lot more than we think goes directly into their pockets.
Now if the earth is flat and infinite or at least a lot bigger than globular earth, than there'd also be money in exploring other parts of the earth too, but because of a dome, or aliens and/or angels forbidding us from exploring other parts of the earth, it may not be possible.
Also, if there are aliens and/or angels beyond Antarctica, they may be trying to keep knowledge of them hidden for sociopolitical purposes.

Offline StinkyOne

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Re: Why would we be lied to about the shape of the Earth?
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2017, 05:31:31 AM »
[From a globe-earther]

So what is the motive for the government or whoever to lie about the shape of the Earth?
Like what benefits does it give them?
I can't see any. It makes no sense to me.

Why not just say it was flat?

Also, whoever is lying to us would have had to have started hundreds of years ago because even around the time Christopher Columbus was alive, it was commonly accepted that the Earth was round. (It's a false myth that he proved the Earth was round, everyone knew already)
Because big science once really believed it was round, for many of the same reasons you believe it's round today, and Aristotle believed it was round 2500 years ago, but proved themselves to themselves wrong when they entered space in the mid 20th century, and to their surprise and chagrin, stared back at a flat earth.
If they came clean and fessed up now, big science and big government would lose much of their credibility, so they have to keep the lie going.
Plus there's a lot of money in the lie anyway, and they lie about where a lot of the money goes, a lot more than we think goes directly into their pockets.
Now if the earth is flat and infinite or at least a lot bigger than globular earth, than there'd also be money in exploring other parts of the earth too, but because of a dome, or aliens and/or angels forbidding us from exploring other parts of the earth, it may not be possible.
Also, if there are aliens and/or angels beyond Antarctica, they may be trying to keep knowledge of them hidden for sociopolitical purposes.

This is where FEH falls apart. The fake conspiracy. Scientists have egos, and they love proving one another wrong. No scientist is remembered for following the crowd. All the greats have changed the way we view the world. If the Earth was flat, someone would have said so and changed history. You can dream up a million fantasy reasons why they would lie, but in the end it really is just fantasy. Maybe it fills some need in you to think you're being lied to all the time or that you can't trust "the system". I don't know. You give humans far too much credit in their ability to keep secrets. We are miserable at it.
I saw a video where a pilot was flying above the sun.
-Terry50

Re: Why would we be lied to about the shape of the Earth?
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2017, 05:55:12 AM »
[From a globe-earther]

So what is the motive for the government or whoever to lie about the shape of the Earth?
Like what benefits does it give them?
I can't see any. It makes no sense to me.

Why not just say it was flat?

Also, whoever is lying to us would have had to have started hundreds of years ago because even around the time Christopher Columbus was alive, it was commonly accepted that the Earth was round. (It's a false myth that he proved the Earth was round, everyone knew already)
Because big science once really believed it was round, for many of the same reasons you believe it's round today, and Aristotle believed it was round 2500 years ago, but proved themselves to themselves wrong when they entered space in the mid 20th century, and to their surprise and chagrin, stared back at a flat earth.
If they came clean and fessed up now, big science and big government would lose much of their credibility, so they have to keep the lie going.
Plus there's a lot of money in the lie anyway, and they lie about where a lot of the money goes, a lot more than we think goes directly into their pockets.
Now if the earth is flat and infinite or at least a lot bigger than globular earth, than there'd also be money in exploring other parts of the earth too, but because of a dome, or aliens and/or angels forbidding us from exploring other parts of the earth, it may not be possible.
Also, if there are aliens and/or angels beyond Antarctica, they may be trying to keep knowledge of them hidden for sociopolitical purposes.

This is where FEH falls apart. The fake conspiracy. Scientists have egos, and they love proving one another wrong. No scientist is remembered for following the crowd. All the greats have changed the way we view the world. If the Earth was flat, someone would have said so and changed history. You can dream up a million fantasy reasons why they would lie, but in the end it really is just fantasy. Maybe it fills some need in you to think you're being lied to all the time or that you can't trust "the system". I don't know. You give humans far too much credit in their ability to keep secrets. We are miserable at it.
Yea, and the greats, the heroes of science are few and far in between.
Most scientists, like most people are sheople.
And there are some unsung heroes who've been unfairly marginalized and ostracized.

Scientists have caught themselves and have been caught by others lying many times in the past.
Tip of the ice berg: Sugar and Tobacco companies paid scientists to withhold data that would damage their products marketability.
Now eventually these lies were uncovered, after decades and millions dead of cancer and diabetes, but if they lied in the past, what makes you so sure they're not lying to us today?
Of course some of them are lying to us about some things, the only sensible question is: how deep does the deception go, is it just a few rotten apples, or is the whole of science rotten to the core?

I am not against, science, but I am against scientism.
Science is a method, among other things perhaps, with various submethods, and among other methods, like the Zetetic, Cartesian, Socratic, Zen Buddhist, intuitionist, and so on and so forth, for uncovering truth.
But Scientism is an ideology: the notion that science put into practice, can virtually do no wrong.
Theoretically it's a really good method at least, perhaps one of, or even the best man can at this point in his evolution conjure for uncovering many truths.
The problem is you have a rosy picture of it, especially when it comes to its practice.

The Human Specie, of which last I checked scientists are still members of, are motivated by all sorts of things: wealth, power, ego, sex, violence and the list goes on, the aesthetics, attachment to, popularity and comprehensibility of their theoretical models versus the truth.
Now there are checks and balances in place to make truth the priority, just as there are checks and balances in place to keep corporations, media and politicians from lying to us, and guess what?
These checks and balances aren't perfect, arguably far from it, and as good as they can be, theoretically at least, always room for improvement.

Now politicians aren't sacred to us, nor is your mechanic, we're not afraid to challenge and stand up to them when we think there is a need.
So what's so sacred about scientists and doctors?
Nothing, absolutely nothing is, it's buyer beware, it always has been, still is and always will be, it's just some'll always be more gullible than others.
One needs to find the right balance of skepticism and trust, and in my opinion most of us place far too much faith in our institutions, to the point of absurdity.

If I said to you politicians love justice, you would probably scoff.
Well, the same is true of scientists and truth.
It's a business...it's about the bottom line.

Science has become a highly lucrative industry.
Gone are the days of the wealthy, lone natural philosopher wandering off into a cave, field or forest nearby his country home to nobly pursue his lofty, Aristotelian notion of truth at his leisure.
All the low hanging fruit has been picked.
Now we have teams of scientists fresh out of uni with student debt and a mortgage to pay, equipped with advanced, state of the art, highly specialized, technical instruments and laboratories, millions upon billions of dollars invested in them and their experiments...so they damn well better come up with something good, or make it look good, for the corporations and governments funding them, or they will be axed.
Such people are easy to herd.

Gone are the days when the common man with a few coin, some binoculars, a measuring tape and a pencil could confirm many a scientific theory for himself.
Science has become so compartmentalized, so esoteric, and so very far removed form laypeople, especially when it comes to astrophysics, and so all the more easy to manipulate by the powers that be.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2017, 07:06:10 AM by Antithecystem »

Offline Roger G

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Re: Why would we be lied to about the shape of the Earth?
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2017, 12:58:24 PM »
Sorry to disagree, but you are only spouting your own prejudices and beliefs much of which has been gleaned by trawling through the internet and recycling other people's ideas which fit your own particular vision of life. Look at this example of your narrow thinking:
Gone are the days when the common man with a few coin, some binoculars, a measuring tape and a pencil could confirm many a scientific theory for himself.
Science has become so compartmentalized, so esoteric, and so very far removed form laypeople, especially when it comes to astrophysics, and so all the more easy to manipulate by the powers that be.


Again you are are just talking the talk without walking the walk. There are a huge number of experiments that you or anybody else can do with just the tools you have described. Many will confirm the basis of the theories that scientists with access to more advanced equipment can investigate further. You could join those more advanced research projects if you gained just some of the basic knowledge and experience required to get involved. Unfortunately like so many others, it is easier to trawl the internet agreeing with others, rather than actually getting out there and trying some of the real world experiments for yourself. Those that get out there, investigate, study and learn are the real pioneers that question what we know and push the boundaries of knowledge. You on the other hand are quick to categorise those hard working folks as 'Sheople', when in fact it is you and others that don't or won't think for themselves that have become the 'Sheople'.

Here is another example of your lack of informed thinking:
Scientists have caught themselves and have been caught by others lying many times in the past.
Tip of the ice berg: Sugar and Tobacco companies paid scientists to withhold data that would damage their products marketability.
Now eventually these lies were uncovered, after decades and millions dead of cancer and diabetes, but if they lied in the past, what makes you so sure they're not lying to us today?

I can remember in the late 1950s and early 1960s when scientists started publishing papers on smoking and the risk of lung cancer and the fact that too much sugar dependency in our food was damaging to our health. There has never been any shortage of easily available and widely publicised evidence for both of these problems, but most of the general public who enjoyed smoking and sugary foods, decided to ignore the warnings and listen instead to their favourite tobacco and food companies who denied the health claims. Scientists are not to blame here, it is the greed of big manufacturers and the general sloth and disinterest of the majority of the public. I've lost count of the number of times I've heard ' My Grandfather smoked 60 cigarettes a day and died at 85, it never hurt him!' or 'You only live once, might as well enjoy it while you are here'. I assume you live in the US, the most self indulgent country in the world when it comes to eating, addicted to fast food and sweet drinks and with the highest level of obesity in the world. This is inspite of dire warnings over the last half century and easy access to all the available scientific research and warnings. Don't blame science, blame the greedy corporations and the greedy lazy public who only hear what they want to hear.

You can apply all the above to the conspiracy theories, it's easier to jump on the bandwagon of blaming things we don't understand on conspiracy and lies than it is to find out for yourself.

Roger