Circumnavigation: Traveling in a Straight Line
« on: August 04, 2017, 10:51:32 PM »
I am new to all this flat earth theory, and i must say it is extremely thought provoking.
My question is about the information here: https://wiki.tfes.org/Circumnavigation
about circumnavigation.
Below in the "traveling in a straight line" section... Wouldn't it be possible to travel south in a straight line, using a navigational aid like a compass?

Also, in the page: https://wiki.tfes.org/Frequently_Asked_Questions#What_does_the_earth_look_like.3F_How_is_circumnavigation_possible.3F
It states: "Beyond the ice wall is a topic of great interest to the Flat Earth Society. To our knowledge, no one has been very far past the ice wall and returned to tell of their journey."
Is there any information anyone can point me towards on this topic? Why has no one been able to explore the ice wall? Do we know how long it is? Can we send a balloon into the sky and look past it? What about building a rover to traverse it (simply having it go south and broadcasting a video feed back, would shine some light on this whole flat-earth-globe-earth discussion, would it not?



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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Circumnavigation: Traveling in a Straight Line
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2017, 03:25:08 AM »
According to your sources it appears that there is a lack of data on the topic. This suggests that you should contribute rather than asking questions about subjects which lack information.

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Offline TomInAustin

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Re: Circumnavigation: Traveling in a Straight Line
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2017, 05:35:32 PM »
According to your sources it appears that there is a lack of data on the topic. This suggests that you should contribute rather than asking questions about subjects which lack information.

There is a wealth of data on circumnavigation.   Take for instance satellite on a polar orbit.  The circumnavigate every day.
The distance from New York to Paris is unknown.

Offline 3DGeek

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Re: Circumnavigation: Traveling in a Straight Line
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2017, 03:15:03 PM »
According to your sources it appears that there is a lack of data on the topic. This suggests that you should contribute rather than asking questions about subjects which lack information.

There is a wealth of data on circumnavigation.   Take for instance satellite on a polar orbit.  The circumnavigate every day.

Fabian Gottlieb von Bellingshausen was the first person to sight Antarctica - and the second to complete a circumnavigation of the continent (January 1821).



The fact that he completed his trip around antarctica in just a few months is clear proof that the flat-earth map on the tfes.org wiki is impossible.  If we believe the map on the wiki then the trip around the ice-cliff would have covered about 49,000 miles and taken many years.

However, Tom Bishop now claims that the map on the Wiki is incorrect and has a new map with antarctica as a distinct continent...sadly that map brings more problems (by far!) than it solves...just think about where the sun has to be in order to produce the 24 hours of sunlight during the Antarctic summer...and ask yourself where the sun must be setting if you live in Europe or North America during that time.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Circumnavigation: Traveling in a Straight Line
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2017, 04:42:19 PM »
Actually, the bi-polar model was the official Flat Earth model held by the society after Rowbotham. It was created when the South Pole was discovered, in order to update the model with the latest data. There is a whole body of research that discusses all of your questions. There are a number of books and journals supporting to the bi-polar model, basically anything published by our society in the early 1900's (Then called the Universal Zetetic Society). Lady Blount and Albert Smith (aka Zetetes) were notable Flat Earth authors supporting the bi-polar model. We were kind enough to provide scanned literature on this website, and on the other .org website, for you to pursue if interested in the subject.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2017, 05:16:32 PM by Tom Bishop »

Re: Circumnavigation: Traveling in a Straight Line
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2017, 04:45:20 PM »
Actually, the bi-polar model was the official Flat Earth model held by the society after Rowbotham. There is a whole body of research that discusses all of these questions. There are a number of books and journals supporting to the bi-polar model, basically anything published by our society in the early 1900's (Then called the Universal Zetetic Society). Lady Blount and Albert Smith (Zetetes) were notable Flat Earth authors supporting the bi-polar model. We were kind enough to provide scanned literature on this website, and on the .org website, for you to pursue if interested in the subject.
Anything published in the last 30 years?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Circumnavigation: Traveling in a Straight Line
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2017, 04:50:14 PM »
Actually, the bi-polar model was the official Flat Earth model held by the society after Rowbotham. There is a whole body of research that discusses all of these questions. There are a number of books and journals supporting to the bi-polar model, basically anything published by our society in the early 1900's (Then called the Universal Zetetic Society). Lady Blount and Albert Smith (Zetetes) were notable Flat Earth authors supporting the bi-polar model. We were kind enough to provide scanned literature on this website, and on the .org website, for you to pursue if interested in the subject.
Anything published in the last 30 years?

We have the internet now. Books are no longer necessary, and frankly expensive to produce. We publish our information on this forum, on the other .org forum, as well as the Wiki. Flat Earth information is also published via youtube and reddit as well.

Offline geckothegeek

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Re: Circumnavigation: Traveling in a Straight Line
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2017, 05:09:15 PM »
A few questions.

(1) Is the "bipolar model" the same as the "Bipolar Projection" ?
      If not, can you show an illustration of the "bipolar model" ?
(2) What is the diameter of the flat earth ?
       (a) In the "bipolar model" (from the edge from side to side)
       (b) In the "unipolar  model" (from the inner rim from side to side)
« Last Edit: August 10, 2017, 03:07:35 AM by geckothegeek »
Stick close to your P.C's and never go to sea
And You All may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Yes, Never, Never, Never go to sea
Just look out your windows,
Flat ! Flat ! Flat !
Is all that you shall see !

Re: Circumnavigation: Traveling in a Straight Line
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2017, 05:56:55 PM »
Actually, the bi-polar model was the official Flat Earth model held by the society after Rowbotham. There is a whole body of research that discusses all of these questions. There are a number of books and journals supporting to the bi-polar model, basically anything published by our society in the early 1900's (Then called the Universal Zetetic Society). Lady Blount and Albert Smith (Zetetes) were notable Flat Earth authors supporting the bi-polar model. We were kind enough to provide scanned literature on this website, and on the .org website, for you to pursue if interested in the subject.
Anything published in the last 30 years?

We have the internet now. Books are no longer necessary, and frankly expensive to produce. We publish our information on this forum, on the other .org forum, as well as the Wiki. Flat Earth information is also published via youtube and reddit as well.
I think you know what I mean and just being awkward as usual.  What recent proof is there of a flat earth?  Please provide specific links.

Offline 3DGeek

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Re: Circumnavigation: Traveling in a Straight Line
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2017, 01:33:07 AM »
Actually, the bi-polar model was the official Flat Earth model held by the society after Rowbotham. It was created when the South Pole was discovered, in order to update the model with the latest data. There is a whole body of research that discusses all of your questions. There are a number of books and journals supporting to the bi-polar model, basically anything published by our society in the early 1900's (Then called the Universal Zetetic Society). Lady Blount and Albert Smith (aka Zetetes) were notable Flat Earth authors supporting the bi-polar model. We were kind enough to provide scanned literature on this website, and on the other .org website, for you to pursue if interested in the subject.

Nothing I've seen from reading the documents scanned and stored on this site say how it is that the sun doesn't set in the southern skies when it's on the "bottom" horizon of antarctica during the 24 hour daylight periods in December.   Your map provides no alternative but that the sun would be setting in the Southern skies rather than the East or West.   We know THAT doesn't happen - ergo the map is wrong.

None of the books (as far as I can see) explain this...perhaps you could point me to a specific book and chapter number?

Offline geckothegeek

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Re: Circumnavigation: Traveling in a Straight Line
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2017, 05:41:25 PM »
A few questions.

(1) Is the "bipolar model" the same as the "Bipolar Projection" ?
      If not, can you show an illustration of the "bipolar model" ?
(2) What is the diameter of the flat earth ?
       (a) In the "bipolar model" (from the edge from side to side)
       (b) In the "unipolar  model" (from the inner rim from side to side)

I asked these questions but still waiting for answers ?
Stick close to your P.C's and never go to sea
And You All may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Yes, Never, Never, Never go to sea
Just look out your windows,
Flat ! Flat ! Flat !
Is all that you shall see !

Re: Circumnavigation: Traveling in a Straight Line
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2017, 07:34:22 PM »
We know this is just a game for amusement.  If those involved were to sit round a table to discuss and prove a flat earth they would not last 5 minutes.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Circumnavigation: Traveling in a Straight Line
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2017, 07:35:43 PM »
A few questions.

(1) Is the "bipolar model" the same as the "Bipolar Projection" ?
      If not, can you show an illustration of the "bipolar model" ?
(2) What is the diameter of the flat earth ?
       (a) In the "bipolar model" (from the edge from side to side)
       (b) In the "unipolar  model" (from the inner rim from side to side)

I asked these questions but still waiting for answers ?

I have directed you guys to sources to look into these things for yourself. If you find a lack of answers to your infinite questions you are encouraged to contribute.

Offline geckothegeek

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Re: Circumnavigation: Traveling in a Straight Line
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2017, 08:59:30 PM »
A few questions.

(1) Is the "bipolar model" the same as the "Bipolar Projection" ?
      If not, can you show an illustration of the "bipolar model" ?
(2) What is the diameter of the flat earth ?
       (a) In the "bipolar model" (from the edge from side to side)
       (b) In the "unipolar  model" (from the inner rim from side to side)


I have directed you guys to sources to look into these things for yourself. If you find a lack of answers to your infinite questions you are encouraged to contribute.

Tom Bishop -

That's a bit rude.  If you asked me a question , I would answer if I knew the answer and give it to you. If I didn't have it handy, I would look it up and send you the answer. These are flat earth questions for flat earthers to give flat earth answers.

For example, on another thread , you said "The distance from New York to Paris is unknown."  I looked it up. The distance from NewYork to Paris is 3,625 miles.

You are giving the Flat Earth Society a bad name. If you don't know the answer, just be honest and say so !

I would be glad to give you some real answers to some real questions.
For Example : The circumference of the earth at the equator  is approximately 25,000 miles.
Stick close to your P.C's and never go to sea
And You All may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Yes, Never, Never, Never go to sea
Just look out your windows,
Flat ! Flat ! Flat !
Is all that you shall see !

Offline geckothegeek

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Re: Circumnavigation: Traveling in a Straight Line
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2017, 09:04:10 PM »
I am new to all this flat earth theory, and i must say it is extremely thought provoking.
My question is about the information here: https://wiki.tfes.org/Circumnavigation
about circumnavigation.
Below in the "traveling in a straight line" section... Wouldn't it be possible to travel south in a straight line, using a navigational aid like a compass?

Also, in the page: https://wiki.tfes.org/Frequently_Asked_Questions#What_does_the_earth_look_like.3F_How_is_circumnavigation_possible.3F
It states: "Beyond the ice wall is a topic of great interest to the Flat Earth Society. To our knowledge, no one has been very far past the ice wall and returned to tell of their journey."
Is there any information anyone can point me towards on this topic? Why has no one been able to explore the ice wall? Do we know how long it is? Can we send a balloon into the sky and look past it? What about building a rover to traverse it (simply having it go south and broadcasting a video feed back, would shine some light on this whole flat-earth-globe-earth discussion, would it not?

I have seen one quote -   I  think it was Rowbotham . :
"Beyond the ice wall is a land of eternal darkness, frigid temperatures, ice, snow and howling winds."
Stick close to your P.C's and never go to sea
And You All may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Yes, Never, Never, Never go to sea
Just look out your windows,
Flat ! Flat ! Flat !
Is all that you shall see !

Offline geckothegeek

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Re: Circumnavigation: Traveling in a Straight Line
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2017, 09:10:06 PM »
We know this is just a game for amusement.  If those involved were to sit round a table to discuss and prove a flat earth they would not last 5 minutes.

Better not have old Navy QM's and BM's sitting round the table ! LOL
Stick close to your P.C's and never go to sea
And You All may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Yes, Never, Never, Never go to sea
Just look out your windows,
Flat ! Flat ! Flat !
Is all that you shall see !

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Circumnavigation: Traveling in a Straight Line
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2017, 10:37:53 PM »
Tom Bishop -

That's a bit rude.  If you asked me a question , I would answer if I knew the answer and give it to you. If I didn't have it handy, I would look it up and send you the answer. These are flat earth questions for flat earthers to give flat earth answers.

For example, on another thread , you said "The distance from New York to Paris is unknown."  I looked it up. The distance from NewYork to Paris is 3,625 miles.

You are giving the Flat Earth Society a bad name. If you don't know the answer, just be honest and say so !

I would be glad to give you some real answers to some real questions.
For Example : The circumference of the earth at the equator  is approximately 25,000 miles.

And if 1000 people were asking you the same questions over and over and over you would probably eventually publish your work and direct any and all inquiries to it. That is what we did, over 100 years ago.

Re: Circumnavigation: Traveling in a Straight Line
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2017, 11:05:50 PM »
Tom Bishop -

That's a bit rude.  If you asked me a question , I would answer if I knew the answer and give it to you. If I didn't have it handy, I would look it up and send you the answer. These are flat earth questions for flat earthers to give flat earth answers.

For example, on another thread , you said "The distance from New York to Paris is unknown."  I looked it up. The distance from NewYork to Paris is 3,625 miles.

You are giving the Flat Earth Society a bad name. If you don't know the answer, just be honest and say so !

I would be glad to give you some real answers to some real questions.
For Example : The circumference of the earth at the equator  is approximately 25,000 miles.

And if 1000 people were asking you the same questions over and over and over you would probably eventually publish your work and direct any and all inquiries to it. That is what we did, over 100 years ago.
But this isn't 100 years ago, this is now. Simply directing us to the body of work isn't all that helpful when it's quite a bit to sift through. Especially when the asks are easy question, that if you've been asked them over and over again you should be able to recite by rote now. At a minimum giving a starting point would be helpful to your case, like "I believe you should find that in _____" which again if you've fielded the question thousands of times before publishing you should likely have a general idea of where something should be. But that's just my 2 cents. I don't recall seeing you give an actual concrete answer to a question like this while I've been here, which is says quite a bit... (This does NOT mean you have not, only that I don't recall seeing one at this time.)
FET - A few old books making claims and telling you how things must be based on the words contained therein. This sounds familiar....

The triangle doesn't work

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Circumnavigation: Traveling in a Straight Line
« Reply #18 on: August 11, 2017, 12:19:35 AM »
Yes, I know that there is quite a bit to shift through to get at this information. I don't see why I have to do it for you, however. I don't know what the early society said about the diameter of the bi-polar model, or if they even gave a figure. I just know that they have studied and published about it in the early 1900's literature. If in your research, you find that no figure was given, you are encouraged to contribute to that body of work with your own estimate.

Re: Circumnavigation: Traveling in a Straight Line
« Reply #19 on: August 11, 2017, 05:06:52 AM »
Yes, I know that there is quite a bit to shift through to get at this information. I don't see why I have to do it for you, however. I don't know what the early society said about the diameter of the bi-polar model, or if they even gave a figure. I just know that they have studied and published about it in the early 1900's. If in your research, you find that no figure was give, you are encouraged to contribute to that body of work with your own estimate.
You are the one presenting the FE model as reality. I find it a bit odd that you ask us to do your work for you, when you expect the opposite of us when presented with RE information. When we present something from RE, you always ask for our supporting sources, and often many. But when we ask precisely what your sources are (Even just the book/issue would suffice) you clam up and wave vaguely at your library. As though rather than discussing things as equals, you believe we are students come to take your class.
FET - A few old books making claims and telling you how things must be based on the words contained therein. This sounds familiar....

The triangle doesn't work