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Offline markjo

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Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
« Reply #240 on: August 16, 2018, 06:07:24 PM »
Hippocrates said that cancer is cured with crushed garlic. Garlic is a grocery store item.

Which sentence do you disagree with? Does your grocery store not carry garlic?
How many cases of what kinds of cancer did Hippocrates treat with crushed garlic?  How many of what kinds of cancers were actually cured by the crushed garlic?  How many of the patients did he treat with crushed garlic (or any other other common grocery store items) that died of cancer anyway?  I don't know about you Tom, but I consider the success to failure rate of a proposed treatment to be fairly important.
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
« Reply #241 on: August 18, 2018, 07:40:47 PM »
I'm talking about #227. The study says that it was tested in vivo.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29595070

Quote
Microarray analysis of tumor tissue identified 515 common anticancer genes in the garlic and cisplatin groups ([Formula: see text]). Gene network analysis of 252 of these genes using the Cytoscape and ClueGo software packages mapped 17 genes and 9 gene ontologies to gene networks. BC (NMIBC and MIBC) patients with low expression of centromere protein M (CENPM) showed significantly better progression-free survival than those with high expression. Garlic extract shows anticancer activity in vivo similar to that of cisplatin, with no evidence of side effects. Both appear to act by targeting protein-DNA complex assembly; in particular, expression of CENPM.

The sentence says that garlic shows similar anticancer activity to that of the chemotherapy drug cisplatin, in vivo, and without the side effects of a chemotherapy drug.
I'm not sure if you have actually read the study. Let me explain it to you:
- The study only takes into account the effect on bladder cancer in mice. They also only tested with one cell line.
- The study shows that Cisplatin in general has a stronger effect than garlic
- It also shows that the garlic has to be dosed very high to actually work (on humans that would be 80g garlic powder for an 80kg man... have fun eating that)
- There was only 6 mice in each group, which is very low and means randomness has a big influence
https://image.ibb.co/jZq01U/1.png

Do you still think, this study proves that 'Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items'?
Because I think this study only shows that garlic contains a molecule that can cause apoptosis if it's taken in very high doses. A fact that apparently is long known.
I do agree that research in that direction might be helpful in the fight against cancer, but the study certainly does not prove the title of this thread.

The study is one of numerous studies which states that garlic reverses cancer in animals. This one says that garlic performs similarly as a chemotherapy drug, and without the side effects. You can't do human experiments without permission from the government. They won't let you. Search Youtube and the web and you will find plenty of testimonies of people who claim to have had their cancers cured through garlic.

Why don't US doctors ever prescribe herbs to patients, despite that there is clear evidence that herbs do cure illnesses? Medicine used to be herb based, after all. Not anymore. If a patient went to a doctor and was prescribed herbs that would be highly illegal and the doctor would likely lose his license and perhaps go to jail. They have to "do it by the book," and that book does not say to give herbs to patients. At best, an honest doctor will eventually suggest off-the-record to the patient to try an alternative medicine doctor if the pharmaceuticals are not working. Seen it happen.

One cannot maintain that herbs do not cure when entire countries, such as China, have medical systems based around herbs.

You will never see US doctors prescribing herbs for any ailment because there is a conspiracy to promote commercial pharmaceuticals. Doctors in western countries do not prescribe herbs anymore, and as long as the status quo is maintained, they never will.

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Offline Baby Thork

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Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
« Reply #242 on: August 18, 2018, 07:52:07 PM »
Tom agrees with the American Institute for Cancer Research

http://www.aicr.org/foods-that-fight-cancer/garlic.html


I'm not sure who Markjo agrees with.
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Offline stack

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Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
« Reply #243 on: August 18, 2018, 08:07:45 PM »
One cannot maintain that herbs do not cure when entire countries, such as China, have medical systems based around herbs.

"China's cancer survival rate less than half that of US, new study finds

The five year survival rate of all cancers in China is 30.9 per cent - compared to 66 per cent in the US"

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1633419/chinas-cancer-survival-rate-just-half-us-new-study-finds

"Cancer survival rate disparities between China and developed nations

There is a large gap in rates of survival between China, and Western countries including European nations and the United States. Associate researcher at China’s Cancer Registration Center Zhang Siwei said that the overall survival rate is much higher for patients in developed countries. In the United States, the five year survival rate for all cancers is about 70 percent. This is about 40 percent higher than the overall rate in China."

https://www.echinacities.com/china-media/Cancer-in-China-Survival-Rate-Much-Lower-Than-In-Developed-Countries


There is no “cure” for cancer. There is remission and there is survival. Herbs, etc. may definitely aid in the fight. But I’d be very careful about using the word “cure”.
Not much is known about the celestial bodies and their distances.

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« Reply #244 on: August 18, 2018, 08:12:02 PM »
Deleted
« Last Edit: August 19, 2018, 08:29:45 AM by user324 »

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Offline Baby Thork

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Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
« Reply #245 on: August 18, 2018, 08:17:33 PM »
There is a large gap in rates of survival between China, and Western countries including European nations and the United States.

No there isn't. You've a pretty similar chance of dying from cancer in either place.

However you are much less likely to get cancer in China, due to all the garlic you likely eat.



You can't claim more people surviving as a percentage is a win, when you have more people getting cancer in the first place. It would seem there are a baseline of deadly cancers that are going to kill you whatever (you get a cancer at 90 and really, what is anyone going to do?). But in garlic munching places, you are a third less likely to get a caner in the first place. Of the curable cancers, it would seem those who eat garlic are the best protected and their cancers don't make you so ill as to need medical attention. The garlic likely clears it right up before it becomes a problem.
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Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
« Reply #246 on: August 18, 2018, 08:31:05 PM »
However you are much less likely to get cancer in China, due to all the garlic you likely eat.

"Conclusion

The most commonly found cancers vary between China and the USA. Cancers of the lung, breast, and gastrointestinal region, including those of the stomach, liver, esophagus, and colorectum, are more commonly seen in China than in the USA."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3643656/
Not much is known about the celestial bodies and their distances.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
« Reply #247 on: August 18, 2018, 09:12:06 PM »
Did they control for population like Thork pointed out? What does the "most common cancers seen" tell us? Why can't a place with low cancer rates also have a list of the "most common cancers seen"?

Another factor is that some areas of China eat more garlic than others.

From the last page:

https://books.google.com/books?id=t22vBQAAQBAJ&lpg=PA244&ots=SQEqINl0gT&dq=allicin%20cured%20cancer%20in%20mice&pg=PA245#v=onepage&q&f=false



« Last Edit: August 18, 2018, 09:27:23 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
« Reply #248 on: August 18, 2018, 09:26:06 PM »
We could go back and forth ad nauseam. My only point is that I take great issue with the OP: "Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items"

It’s incredibly negligent, misleading, and disingenuous.

Cancer is not “easily cured” by anything.

Now as far as staving the prospect of getting cancer, sure, eating a healthy diet certainly aids in this as well as for other diseases and ailments. Also does abstaining from smoking, drinking and other known harmful activities.

But to claim that garlic “cures” cancer. That is an out-and-out fallacy.
Not much is known about the celestial bodies and their distances.

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Offline Baby Thork

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Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
« Reply #249 on: August 18, 2018, 10:02:05 PM »
But to claim that garlic “cures” cancer. That is an out-and-out fallacy.
Maybe you should take that up with Britain's NHS?

https://www.nhs.uk/news/cancer/garlic-study-raises-hopes-for-rare-brain-cancer/

Quote from: https://www.nhs.uk/news/cancer/garlic-study-raises-hopes-for-rare-brain-cancer/
Garlic may be used to treat brain cancers, The Times reported on September 1 2007. The newspaper reported that scientists had found that certain organic compounds in garlic kill tumours. The type of tumour in question, glioblastoma, tends to kill people soon after they are diagnosed.
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Offline stack

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Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
« Reply #250 on: August 18, 2018, 10:26:35 PM »
But to claim that garlic “cures” cancer. That is an out-and-out fallacy.
Maybe you should take that up with Britain's NHS?

https://www.nhs.uk/news/cancer/garlic-study-raises-hopes-for-rare-brain-cancer/

Quote from: https://www.nhs.uk/news/cancer/garlic-study-raises-hopes-for-rare-brain-cancer/
Garlic may be used to treat brain cancers, The Times reported on September 1 2007. The newspaper reported that scientists had found that certain organic compounds in garlic kill tumours. The type of tumour in question, glioblastoma, tends to kill people soon after they are diagnosed.

From the link you provided above:

"What does the NHS Knowledge Service make of this study?

This was a laboratory study, and no conclusions about the effects of garlic on human health can be drawn from it.

This study did not look at the effects of eating garlic in people who have glioblastoma; it also did not look at whether eating garlic prevents people developing cancer. In addition, this study did not look at the effects of these garlic compounds on healthy human cells; therefore it is possible that these compounds also kill healthy cells.

Based on this studies findings, we shouldn’t believe that eating garlic will prevent or cure cancer."
Not much is known about the celestial bodies and their distances.

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Offline Baby Thork

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Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
« Reply #251 on: August 18, 2018, 10:28:05 PM »
So the NHS are just having a wild stab in the dark about garlic, are they? Maybe there is another entry where they suggest leeches or holy water?
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Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
« Reply #252 on: August 18, 2018, 10:39:00 PM »
So the NHS are just having a wild stab in the dark about garlic, are they? Maybe there is another entry where they suggest leeches or holy water?

I don't claim to know what NHS' motivations are. You cited the report, I read it, and simply pointed out what the NHS said about the study.
Not much is known about the celestial bodies and their distances.

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Offline Baby Thork

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Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
« Reply #253 on: August 18, 2018, 10:43:44 PM »
The NHS, as Tom pointed out, are basically saying clinical trials are on going, garlic does kill the cancer cells in the lab ... but there is no drug that can be sold for masses of profit at this time.

Quote from: https://www.nhs.uk/news/cancer/garlic-study-raises-hopes-for-rare-brain-cancer/
The researchers found that all three compounds caused more glioblastoma cells to die (by a method known as apoptosis) than was observed in the untreated control cells. The higher the concentration of the compound used, the more cells died.

Those are the results. Garlic kills cancer.
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Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
« Reply #254 on: August 18, 2018, 11:23:55 PM »
The NHS, as Tom pointed out, are basically saying clinical trials are on going, garlic does kill the cancer cells in the lab ... but there is no drug that can be sold for masses of profit at this time.

Quote from: https://www.nhs.uk/news/cancer/garlic-study-raises-hopes-for-rare-brain-cancer/
The researchers found that all three compounds caused more glioblastoma cells to die (by a method known as apoptosis) than was observed in the untreated control cells. The higher the concentration of the compound used, the more cells died.

Those are the results. Garlic kills cancer.

It did kill some cells, in a lab. So do other compounds. I look forward to more research on the matter. In the mean time, Cancer is NOT easily cured with common grocery store items.
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
« Reply #255 on: July 04, 2019, 02:10:36 AM »
Garlic suppresses cancer in humans:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16484573

Quote
Aged garlic extract has potential suppressive effect on colorectal adenomas in humans.
Tanaka S1, Haruma K, Yoshihara M, Kajiyama G, Kira K, Amagase H, Chayama K.

Abstract
Epidemiological and animal studies suggest AGE and its organosulfur constituents, such as S-allylcysteine and S-allylmercaptocysteine have anticarcinogenic effects. To confirm these effects in humans, a preliminary double-blind, randomized clinical trial using high-dose AGE (AGE 2.4 mL/d) as an active treatment and low-dose AGE (AGE 0.16 mL/d) as a control was performed on patients with colorectal adenomas-precancerous lesions of the large bowel. The study enrolled 51 patients who were diagnosed as carrying colorectal adenomas. The patients were randomly assigned to the two groups after adenomas larger than 5 mm in diameter were removed by polypectomy. The number and size of adenomas right before intake (0 mo) and at 6 and 12 mo after intake were measured using colonoscopy. Thirty-seven patients (19 in the active group, 18 in the control group) completed the study and were evaluated for the efficacy of AGE. The number of adenomas increased linearly in the control group from the beginning (the baseline), but AGE significantly suppressed both the size and number of colon adenomas in patients after 12 mo of high-dose treatment (P=0.04). The results suggest AGE suppresses progression of colorectal adenomas in humans. It appears that AGE has multiple pathways to reduce cancer incidence and suppress its growth and proliferation.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2019, 03:22:54 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
« Reply #256 on: July 07, 2019, 01:18:57 AM »
Garlic suppresses cancer in humans:

Careful with statements like: "Garlic suppresses cancer in humans". There's a potential and is still being studied. Much more research is required with AGE consumption as a cancer suppressant - Its effectiveness in humans has not been determined. You cite a paper from 2008. From a more recent study published in 2018 (Which comments on the study you presented and others):

"Aged Garlic and Cancer: A Systematic Review (September, 2018)

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/327708446_Aged_Garlic_and_Cancer_A_Systematic_Review

Another trial showed that daily consumption of 2.4 mL  AGE in 51 diagnosed patients as carrying colorectal adenomas could signifi cantly inhibit the number and size of adenomas in the treatment group after 6 and 12 months.[20] However, we should keep in mind that protective factors of colorectal adenoma such as folate and regular nonsteroidal anti-infl ammatory drug using and risk factors such as smoking and alcohol drinking might have confounding role in the obtained results.[48] Further to mentioned point, it also seems that assessment of reliable markers of genetic risk factors of colorectal cancer is necessary.[49] In another trial in this field, researchers reported that supplementation with AGE had not considerably chemoprevention effects on the incidence of precancerous gastric lesions.[24] Even longer follow-up provided the same results.[23]

Overall, the current fi ndings are not suffi cient to assess the effects of aged garlic on cancer. However, due to anticancer properties of aged garlic, its consumption along with healthy diet may have benefi cial effects on cancer. More clinical trials and prospective cohort human studies with adequate sample size are necessary.
"
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
« Reply #257 on: July 07, 2019, 03:41:51 PM »
Garlic suppresses cancer in humans:

Careful with statements like: "Garlic suppresses cancer in humans". There's a potential and is still being studied.

I bet those people were pretty happy when the garlic suppressed their cancer.

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Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
« Reply #258 on: July 07, 2019, 05:41:29 PM »
Garlic suppresses cancer in humans:

Careful with statements like: "Garlic suppresses cancer in humans". There's a potential and is still being studied.

I bet those people were pretty happy when the garlic suppressed their cancer.

Sure. And I supposed those whose tumors weren't suppressed by their garlic intake were not happy. And it's unclear if garlic was the actual suppressant to begin with if you had read the quote and the study I cited.

I'm just saying, making a statement like, "Garlic suppresses cancer in humans" is a headline a tabloid would run and is disingenuous. Better would have been, "Study finds that AGE may have a suppressive effect on some cancers".

Better still, would have been to reference the 2018 study I cited rather than the 2008 study you found.

Just be careful and thoughtful when it comes to espousing notions around the treatments of deadly diseases.
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
« Reply #259 on: July 07, 2019, 10:34:03 PM »
The study you cited is a totally different study with different doses and cancers and timespans.

The people in the study I cited were given the same treatment and their cancers were suppressed in a double-blind study against a control group. The control group without the high doses of garlic had cancers which proliferated. How did those people in that study taking high dose garlic coincidentally regress?