Offline Blanko

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2471
    • View Profile
On the notion of nuclear power
« on: October 15, 2014, 07:35:23 PM »
[NOTE: this thread was split from Yaakov's party poll thread]

Green Parties are quite hilarious in that they tend to be anti-nuclear, which ironically in many cases makes them the least green parties of their respective countries.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2014, 10:29:52 AM by Blanko »

Ghost of V

Re: On the notion of nuclear power
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2014, 07:37:51 PM »
Green Parties are quite hilarious in that they tend to be anti-nuclear, which ironically in many cases makes them the least green parties of their respective countries.

How? Nuclear energy is a risk to the environment and humanity itself, at least to them.  Seems pretty green to me.

Offline Blanko

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2471
    • View Profile
Re: On the notion of nuclear power
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2014, 07:42:38 PM »
[...]at least to them.

Well, yeah. Unfortunately they're wrong about that.

Ghost of V

Re: On the notion of nuclear power
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2014, 07:46:55 PM »
[...]at least to them.

Well, yeah. Unfortunately they're wrong about that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster

Please show me how this was good for the environment.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 07:50:51 PM by Vauxhall »

Offline Blanko

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2471
    • View Profile
Re: On the notion of nuclear power
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2014, 08:20:04 PM »
[...]at least to them.

Well, yeah. Unfortunately they're wrong about that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster

Please show me how this was good for the environment.

Are you under the impression that modern nuclear power plants are as unsafe as Chernobyl, which was shoddy even by Soviet standards? Fukushima was hit by two massive natural disasters and resulted in zero casualties and the radiation leaks were so minimal that it's unlikely to cause any complications for anyone in the future. Those are the only two noteworthy nuclear accidents in history and one of them is a perfect demonstration of how safe nuclear power actually is. Meanwhile, coal mining is incredibly dangerous and has historically claimed tens of thousands of lives, and coal power is, of course, massively worse for the environment than nuclear power. Yet green parties are insistent on keeping coal plants in operation by lobbying against building of nuclear plants to replace them.

Ghost of V

Re: On the notion of nuclear power
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2014, 08:26:49 PM »
Are you saying you know all the equipment used and conditions of each nuclear power plant across the Earth? I'm really impressed.

If anything, Fukushima showed us that nuclear power plants are even more of a liability because natural disasters can trigger radiation leaks and even meltdowns. Just because it hasn't happened on a large scale like Chernobyl since doesn't mean it won't happen again.

Offline Blanko

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2471
    • View Profile
Re: On the notion of nuclear power
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2014, 08:47:07 PM »
Yes, never mind that we're perfectly aware of what risks coal power involves, but nuclear power might by some miniscule chance come close to being even remotely as lethal, so let's never use it! That sounds perfectly reasonable, let's just continue to destroy the environment some more.

No, really, that must be the thought process behind it. It's literally apocalypse scenario scare tactics, which somehow is enough to blatantly ignore massive mine disasters and the effect coal power plants have on the environment.

Ghost of V

Re: On the notion of nuclear power
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2014, 08:54:58 PM »
Coal power is a different issue. Wtf are you talking about?

Offline Blanko

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2471
    • View Profile
Re: On the notion of nuclear power
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2014, 09:05:38 PM »
No, it isn't. If we're not building nuclear power plants, coal plants will remain dominant. That's the main issue.

Ghost of V

Re: On the notion of nuclear power
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2014, 09:08:22 PM »
No, it isn't. If we're not building nuclear power plants, coal plants will remain dominant. That's the main issue.

Yes it is, and you're ignoring the main points.

Do you think nuclear power is good for the environment? yes/no

Coal power has nothing to do with the argument, at least not part of the discussion that we're having. There are other forms of alternative power. If it was a perfect world we wouldn't be using coal or nuclear power. You said that Green parties are not green because of their views on nuclear power. Are you saying that they're wrong for thinking nuclear power has a negative impact on the environment? If so, why?

Offline Blanko

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2471
    • View Profile
Re: On the notion of nuclear power
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2014, 09:20:51 PM »
Do you think nuclear power is good for the environment? yes/no

Yes, because replacing coal power is a net positive.

Quote
There are other forms of alternative power. If it was a perfect world we wouldn't be using coal or nuclear power.

Yes, things would be a whole lot better if they were perfect.

Quote
You said that Green parties are not green because of their views on nuclear power. Are you saying that they're wrong for thinking nuclear power has a negative impact on the environment? If so, why?

No, I'm saying that not building nuclear power plants has the direct result of keeping coal plants in operation, which is terrible for the environment. Producing electricity is never going to be "good" for the environment, but we need it, and some methods of production are much better than others. Nuclear power happens to be one of the better ones, so opposing it is not environmentally conscious.

Re: On the notion of nuclear power
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2014, 09:29:47 PM »
I thought you meant green as in the color usually associated with radiation.

Ghost of V

Re: On the notion of nuclear power
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2014, 09:33:14 PM »
So nuclear power is good for the environment . Gotcha.  ::)
« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 09:44:44 PM by Vauxhall »

Thork

Re: On the notion of nuclear power
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2014, 09:42:46 PM »
So nuclear power is good for the environment . Gotcha.  ::)
If there is no accident and the waste is disposed of properly, yes.

Most of the earth is made of magma. It is filled with radio active materials. It is one of the reasons the earth has not cooled to a solid yet. This is what made Lord Kelvin get the age of earth so monumentally wrong. He didn't know about radioactivity. Don't be scared, it sounds bad, but most of the earth is already radioactive. Lrn2perspective.

Ghost of V

Re: On the notion of nuclear power
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2014, 09:44:47 PM »
I'm sure the people impacted by Chernobyl would totally agree with you because "coal power is worse". That totally makes up for the radioactive fallout that changed the environment in the surrounding area for the worst for decades to come, causing infertility, killing vegetation and wildlife, and creating what we now call the "Red Forest". But that's all ok because coal power is worse.

Thork

Re: On the notion of nuclear power
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2014, 09:49:07 PM »
I'm sure the people impacted by Chernobyl would totally agree with you because "coal power is worse". That totally makes up for the radioactive fallout that changed the environment in the surrounding area for the worst for decades to come, causing infertility, killing vegetation and wildlife, and creating what we now call the "Red Forest". But that's all ok because coal power is worse.
Again, perspective. It was one accident in a very small localised part of the world. Ruining a small area of land has to be preferable to ruining the air quality for millions of people and provoking diseases like asthma.

Ghost of V

Re: On the notion of nuclear power
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2014, 09:51:07 PM »
Sorry Thork, but I have a personal rule never to engage in an argument with you.

Offline Blanko

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2471
    • View Profile
Re: On the notion of nuclear power
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2014, 09:58:39 PM »
tfw Thork is more sensible than Vauxy

Ghost of V

Re: On the notion of nuclear power
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2014, 10:00:05 PM »
... coming from someone who thinks that nuclear power is good for the environment because "coal is worse".

I believe they call that moving the goalpost because you still haven't answered the question.

Is nuclear power good for the environment?
« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 10:01:49 PM by Vauxhall »

Offline Blanko

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2471
    • View Profile
Re: On the notion of nuclear power
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2014, 10:01:36 PM »
 ::)