Re: Adding an email account to messaging apps
« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2014, 01:02:58 AM »
Yes, I'm well aware that XMPP isn't widely accepted as a standard. That's irrelevant to my claim that it would be a far better standard than anything we have currently. Pointing out that specific apps which implement XMPP aren't popular is missing the point.
Well it doesn't sound like we are having the same conversation then. It'd be nice if there was a standard, you may wish all you want.

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Online Parsifal

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Re: Adding an email account to messaging apps
« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2014, 01:10:59 AM »
Well it doesn't sound like we are having the same conversation then. It'd be nice if there was a standard, you may wish all you want.

I think we are, you just seem to assume that standards come about because someone, somewhere decides that there shall be a standard. No, standards come about because people use them, and the best way to improve the adoption of a standard is to adopt that standard.

You can wish for one thing and do something that achieves the polar opposite if you like. Meanwhile, I will use the things that I think are good.
There is free speech and there is being an annoying twat. This user is exercising his right to the latter.

Re: Adding an email account to messaging apps
« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2014, 01:18:07 AM »
Well it doesn't sound like we are having the same conversation then. It'd be nice if there was a standard, you may wish all you want.

I think we are, you just seem to assume that standards come about because someone, somewhere decides that there shall be a standard. No, standards come about because people use them, and the best way to improve the adoption of a standard is to adopt that standard.

You can wish for one thing and do something that achieves the polar opposite if you like. Meanwhile, I will use the things that I think are good.
I know what a standard is. If a messaging standard ever comes about it won't be xmpp. Not because it isn't any good but because we tried it, it had its chance and it failed. People are not adopting it, its numbers are dwindling. What you consider good won't ever be much without people using it. You sort of need people to use it for it to be worth anything.

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Online Parsifal

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Re: Adding an email account to messaging apps
« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2014, 01:24:37 AM »
I know what a standard is. If a messaging standard ever comes about it won't be xmpp. Not because it isn't any good but because we tried it, it had its chance and it failed. People are not adopting it, its numbers are dwindling. What you consider good won't ever be much without people using it. You sort of need people to use it for it to be worth anything.

What is the logical connection between "we tried it and it failed" and "it won't become a standard"?
There is free speech and there is being an annoying twat. This user is exercising his right to the latter.

Re: Adding an email account to messaging apps
« Reply #24 on: July 30, 2014, 01:26:01 AM »
I know what a standard is. If a messaging standard ever comes about it won't be xmpp. Not because it isn't any good but because we tried it, it had its chance and it failed. People are not adopting it, its numbers are dwindling. What you consider good won't ever be much without people using it. You sort of need people to use it for it to be worth anything.

What is the logical connection between "we tried it and it failed" and "it won't become a standard"?
The fact that it had its chance. If you were talking about some new potential standard then you might have a point. We aren't talking about a new standard though. We are talking about an attempt at a standard that the world said bye bye to.

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Online Parsifal

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Re: Adding an email account to messaging apps
« Reply #25 on: July 30, 2014, 01:33:08 AM »
The fact that it had its chance. If you were talking about some new potential standard then you might have a point. We aren't talking about a new standard though. We are talking about an attempt at a standard that the world said bye bye to.

Yes, we've established that. Do you know what a logical connection is?
There is free speech and there is being an annoying twat. This user is exercising his right to the latter.

Re: Adding an email account to messaging apps
« Reply #26 on: July 30, 2014, 01:38:04 AM »
The fact that it had its chance. If you were talking about some new potential standard then you might have a point. We aren't talking about a new standard though. We are talking about an attempt at a standard that the world said bye bye to.

Yes, we've established that. Do you know what a logical connection is?
You're a fool.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Adding an email account to messaging apps
« Reply #27 on: July 30, 2014, 01:59:10 AM »
You're a fool.
rofl

ITT: rottingroom is wrong again, doesn't know how to handle it again.
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Re: Adding an email account to messaging apps
« Reply #28 on: July 30, 2014, 02:00:08 AM »
You're a fool.
rofl

ITT: rottingroom is wrong again, doesn't know how to handle it again.
No I'm not. You are out of your mind. I am right again. Just as the Facebook thread.

Re: Adding an email account to messaging apps
« Reply #29 on: July 30, 2014, 02:04:35 AM »
It's no surprise that you think that when someone is right they are wrong and vice versa. I mean you think the earth is flat.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Adding an email account to messaging apps
« Reply #30 on: July 30, 2014, 02:05:43 AM »
Its no surprise that you think that when someone is right they are wrong and vice versa. I mean you think the earth is flat.
And you think e-mails can't be spoofed. Now that we've dealt with random irrelevant crap, would you like to substantiate your point, or are you done?
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Re: Adding an email account to messaging apps
« Reply #31 on: July 30, 2014, 02:06:45 AM »
Its no surprise that you think that when someone is right they are wrong and vice versa. I mean you think the earth is flat.
And you think e-mails can't be spoofed. Now that we've dealt with random irrelevant crap, would you like to substantiate your point, or are you done?
I already did. Parsifal thinks that xmpp has the potential to become a standard. Which is wrong.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Adding an email account to messaging apps
« Reply #32 on: July 30, 2014, 02:13:42 AM »
I already did. Parsifal thinks that xmpp has the potential to become a standard. Which is wrong.
I don't think you quite understand what "substantiation" is1. Nonetheless, what you said is also wrong. Google Talk Hangouts already had its chance and failed, therefore it clearly can't become popular again. Right? Wrong. The fact that it dipped in popularity means nothing.

Also, given the prominence of Facebook Chat, I would strongly suggest reconsidering your claims about XMPP, even if you intend to leave them unsubstantiated as you did.

1 - protip: You're supposed to back it up with facts, not just restate it over and over
« Last Edit: July 30, 2014, 02:16:05 AM by pizaaplanet »
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Re: Adding an email account to messaging apps
« Reply #33 on: July 30, 2014, 02:18:05 AM »
I already did. Parsifal thinks that xmpp has the potential to become a standard. Which is wrong.
I don't think you quite understand what "substantiation" is. Nonetheless, what you said is also wrong. Google Talk Hangouts already had its chance and failed, therefore it clearly can't become popular again. Right? Wrong. The fact that it dipped in popularity means nothing.

Also, given the prominence of Facebook Chat, I would strongly suggest reconsidering your claims about XMPP, even if you intend to leave them unsubstantiated as you did.
Incorrect. Hangouts is backed by a large corporation that can put funds into making hangouts a big deal. Its the default messaging app on android and google voice integration is coming with carrier deals.

Facebook is a standard for talking to close friends but not for messaging as a whole because people treat their Facebook accounts like silos and are very selective about who they friend.

You and Parsifal have not made a single good point. You just circle jerk each other. That's about it.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Adding an email account to messaging apps
« Reply #34 on: July 30, 2014, 02:24:06 AM »
Incorrect. Hangouts is backed by a large corporation that can put funds into making hangouts a big deal. Its the default messaging app on android and google voice integration is coming with carrier deals.
And how does that matter, given how few people use it?

Facebook is a standard for talking to close friends but not for messaging as a whole because people treat their Facebook accounts like silos and are very selective about who they friend.
I see, you seem to think how all people use Facebook. News flash: Google+ is a social network, too. News flash #2: Facebook uses XMPP. You just said that XMPP is a standard. Bam!

You and Parsifal have not made a single good point. You just circle jerk each other. That's about it.
Sokarul, is that you????? :^)
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Re: Adding an email account to messaging apps
« Reply #35 on: July 30, 2014, 02:35:35 AM »
Few people use G+? That's funny. I'm sure it the fastest growing social network of all time. The second largest at the moment.

Facebook Chat does not actually run an XMPP server internally, but merely presents an XMPP interface to clients. This is not helping the attempt to make it a standard at all.

Re: Adding an email account to messaging apps
« Reply #36 on: July 30, 2014, 02:39:08 AM »
And really, you and Parsifal seem like the same person. Always backing each others wrong ideas up.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Adding an email account to messaging apps
« Reply #37 on: July 30, 2014, 02:45:02 AM »
Few people use G+? That's funny. I'm sure it the fastest growing social network of all time. The second largest at the moment.
Few people use Google Hangouts. Don't change the subject, just because you were wrong doesn't mean you need to be dishonest, too. There are at least ten more popular solutions.

Facebook Chat does not actually run an XMPP server internally, but merely presents an XMPP interface to clients.
And what, in your non-factual opinion, is an XMPP server if not an application that presents clients with a standardised interface and the functionality to support that interface? Because, y'know, that's what an XMPP server is. Again, the problem here is that you don't understand what XMPP is.

I suppose what you're trying to say is that it's not a complete or fully compliant implementation of XMPP, in which case you're correct.

This is not helping the attempt to make it a standard at all.
It's okay, they're fixing it. And yes, it is helping.
Facebook Chat is terse when sending updates for new friends, because the negotiation happens outside of XMPP. Future versions of Facebook Chat may be more conformant.

And really, you and Parsifal seem like the same person. Always backing each others wrong ideas up.
It's because we understand computers m8. Don't worry, one day you'll learn what XMPP is and you can join us cool kids.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2014, 02:47:26 AM by pizaaplanet »
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Offline Rushy

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Re: Adding an email account to messaging apps
« Reply #38 on: July 30, 2014, 02:47:04 AM »
Parsiplanet: Computer Whisperer

Re: Adding an email account to messaging apps
« Reply #39 on: July 30, 2014, 02:51:26 AM »
I'm not at a computer so I cant be bothered to quote individual parts of what you said. I'll address them in order though.

That info graphic doesn't display hangouts numbers. You have just implied that all of these apps have better numbers than hangouts but you can't tell this from the chart. Oh, and g+ users are hangouts users.

Xmpp.... Yes, not a complete implementation. There is nothing standardizing about what Facebook does for xmpp. If anything its making it proprietary, not to mention that Facebook competes with itself in messaging via its acquisitions.

I think you do understand computers. I'll give you that. I do too.