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Offline Baby Thork

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Every map of China is wrong
« on: March 28, 2019, 07:22:35 PM »
Yeah, sounds like a bold claim but is a fact.



I find this interesting because so often round earthers claim "but google maps, but satellite images". In this video you can see not only do the Chinese alter all the maps with algorithms for foreigners so that nothing is where they say it is, they also bend the satellite images as well for the domestic market.

It is therefore no stretch to posit that you could indeed warp both the satellite image and the map into any shape you want. Say from a flat earth into a round one.

The Chinese use lots of these algorithms such as GCJ-02 or BD-09 on almost a company by company basis. Why on earth would I trust WGS-84 as being the correct one just because it is the US standard?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restrictions_on_geographic_data_in_China#GCJ-02
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Offline ChrisTP

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Re: Every map of China is wrong
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2019, 07:53:45 PM »
Interesting. Although I wouldn't say this is a reason to believe it's possible for google maps to be wrong everywhere, since everywhere else maps do just work while as is very evident from this video, people know full well that the maps in china are wrong and can see that for themselves. It's also a written law and everyone can look it up so it's no secret even if people (including myself) were oblivious to this. Also worth pointing out that the map is more just distorted locally (like a perlin noise). If the earth were flat things would stretch out west to east the further south you go.

Basically, just because this area of the map is documented as wrong doesn't mean everywhere else is. Still an interesting thing to learn though thanks for showing the video!

I just did some further reading into this and it's distorted for a reason apparently

"China chose to adopt a system of coordinates that debuted during the Cold War era to bamboozle foreign intelligence agencies. GCJ-02’s algorithmic offset means your real location could be up to 500 meters east, west, north or south (yes, it’s that random) of what you see on the map."
« Last Edit: March 28, 2019, 07:59:27 PM by ChrisTP »

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Offline markjo

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Re: Every map of China is wrong
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2019, 07:55:07 PM »
Not surprising that China would do something like that.  During the Cold War, the former Soviet Union did pretty much the same thing.  They had highly detailed and accurate maps for the military, but deliberately distorted civilian maps so that they were pretty much useless for navigation lest they fall into enemy hands.

Worse, the maps for the masses were deliberately distorted with a special projection that introduced random variations. “The main goal was to crush the contents of maps so it would be impossible to recreate the real geography of a place from the map,” Postnikov tells me. Well-known landmarks like rivers and towns were depicted, but the coordinates, directions, and distances were all off, making them useless for navigation or military planning, should they fall into enemy hands. The cartographer who devised this devious scheme was awarded the State Prize by Stalin.
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

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Offline Baby Thork

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Re: Every map of China is wrong
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2019, 07:56:50 PM »
Interesting. Although I wouldn't say this is a reason to believe it's possible for google maps to be wrong everywhere, since everywhere else maps do just work while as is very evident from this video, people know full well that the maps in china are wrong and can see that for themselves. It's also a written law and everyone can look it up so it's no secret even if people (including myself) were oblivious to this.

Basically, just because this area of the map is documented as wrong doesn't mean everywhere else is. Still an interesting thing to learn though thanks for showing the video!
The point is, these maps also work in China. Its not like they don't have sat nav in their cars. They just overlay the algorithm and the people are non the wiser.

Not surprising that China would do something like that.  During the Cold War, the former Soviet Union did pretty much the same thing.  They had highly detailed maps for the military, but deliberately distorted civilian maps so that they were pretty much useless for navigation lest they fall into enemy hands.

Worse, the maps for the masses were deliberately distorted with a special projection that introduced random variations. “The main goal was to crush the contents of maps so it would be impossible to recreate the real geography of a place from the map,” Postnikov tells me. Well-known landmarks like rivers and towns were depicted, but the coordinates, directions, and distances were all off, making them useless for navigation or military planning, should they fall into enemy hands. The cartographer who devised this devious scheme was awarded the State Prize by Stalin.
Then please don't ever argue black is white with me again that GPS maps prove earth is round.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2019, 07:59:32 PM by Baby Thork »
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Re: Every map of China is wrong
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2019, 06:10:45 AM »
Google maps have an offset in China by a few 100m. Therefore I rarely use Google maps in China (plus the international google maps is as all google service in China blocked and you need to use the local one ditu.google.cn - or a VPN). When in China I mainly use Baidu Maps at map.baidu.com or map.baidu.cn - in theory, practically I use the Baidu maps Android app, which is really accurate by a few meters.

BTW, what is not accurate is google maps - the google satellite images are accurate. Therefore the two don't match. You can check that easily yourself.