Offline jimster

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Re: Explain this Phenomenon
« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2019, 04:06:10 AM »
That's what the faqs say. What do you say?

The atmolayer: a never observed natural phenomenon whose function is to turn the appearance of FE into RE, the filter through which all that accurate flatness evidence is transformed into the appearance of RE. No one knows what it is made of or how it works, but it bends light and radio waves to suit any need.

I would like to see a diagram of how the sun could be projected to get sun on western horizon at 0 longitude, directly overhead at 90 long, eastern horizon at 180, and no sun at all at 270.

How is a sun projected over the equator and not seen all over FE?

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Offline QED

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Re: Explain this Phenomenon
« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2019, 04:18:13 AM »
Sigh, I’ll do it Junker. It’s probably my turn anyway.

Refraction of light off atmosphere

An optical effect of coillodal (hazy) atmosphere that defocuses light of select wavelengths from your eye (google mirage)

Your camera sucks

Infrared radiation emitted by the Earth and scattered off the clouds above

Just off the top of my head...

Refraction of light off atmosphere -> Probably your best argument, the rest is trash. I would be interested in your calculation for the angle of refraction of the air when light is coming from vacuum, and how that correlates to clouds being illuminated from the bottom. And I assume you believe in the vacuum of space as well since refraction requires a change in medium that the light travels through.

An optical effect of coillodal (hazy) atmosphere that defocuses light of select wavelengths from your eye (google mirage) -> A mirage is like you said, hazy, and this sir, was clear and crisp. Had no signs of optical intrusion by different temperatures of air masses.

Your camera sucks -> Lazy argument. What about my camera would cause this. Also see below.

Infrared radiation emitted by the Earth and scattered off the clouds above -> My eyes cannot see infrared and I can assure you, this camera captured nearly exactly what I saw with my eyes.



Ill go ahead and invoke Occam's razor and say that simply: the clouds are literally being illuminated by the sun, from the bottom.

I do not think you understand Occam’s razor. It has nothing to do with simplicity.

The indices of refraction will vary depending on the dust and water content in the atmosphere, so a calculation is difficult because the index of refraction would be a function of distance and composition. You would then need to integrate to obtain the final deflection angle. One would do this in an upper division optics class. Do you know about integration?

Hmm, mirages do not need to be hazy. Also, I did not say it was identical to a mirage you would see in a desert. The optical effect, however, is similar.

I’ll take your word for it that your camera is fine.

You don’t see the infrared emitted by the Earth, obviously. What you see is when it is absorbed and re-emitted at shorter wavelengths by the clouds. Much like the situation during a sun set, except in that case the infrared is from the Sun directly, and gets to the clouds because the atmosphere scatters out all the higher frequency light.

The question you actually want to ask to challenge me on this point is: how come you don’t see red clouds at night! The Earth is still emitting infrared radiation, after all!

Plus, if the Sun is a black body emitter as REers claim, then how come the Sky isn’t purple! Air should scatter ~1/L^4, where L is the wavelength of the light. So we should see a purple sky, since it has a shorter wavelength than blue, and should scatter then more easily.

Actually the question you should be asking yourself, rather than attempting to provide a master class on black body emitters and absorbed and re-emitted shorter wavelengths, is why a 3000 mile high FE sun can bend light up under a 4 mile high cloud. Save your pedantic pontifications for a thread that is relevant to what you want to espouse. Stick to the OP.

Well, if you do not want to or are unable to contribute to the topic, then that is alright. But I don’t see why you feel the need to resort to insults. I do not believe that the OP had anything to do with ad hominems :)
« Last Edit: March 15, 2019, 04:54:06 AM by QED »
The fact.that it's an old equation without good.demonstration of the underlying mechamism behind it makes.it more invalid, not more valid!

- Tom Bishop

We try to represent FET in a model-agnostic way

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Re: Explain this Phenomenon
« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2019, 08:39:38 AM »
Both Earth Not a Globe and the Flat Earth Society Wiki says that the sun is a projection on the atmolayer. It can get to the horizon as easily as a cloud can.

Tom, have you ever seen a Hydrogen-alpha filter? Like this: http://www.astronomy.com/great-american-eclipse-2017/articles/2016/06/how-to-choose-a-hydrogen-alpha-filter

I'm not sure how this atmolayer concept works but are you saying when you look through a telescope with a Hydrogen-alpha filter you are not seeing the sun but a projection onto a mixture of gases? Can you tell me the likely composition of this mixture of gases or other examples of a projection onto any gas that maintains such a defined edge and intense detail? It almost seems unbelievable.

manicminer

Re: Explain this Phenomenon
« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2019, 12:35:23 PM »
Quote
Both Earth Not a Globe and the Flat Earth Society Wiki says that the sun is a projection on the atmolayer. It can get to the horizon as easily as a cloud can.

Where is the source of the projection?

I observe and image the Sun in several narrowband wavelengths (H alpha, Calcium K, Magnesium and sodium) so I would be interested to know what Toms take on this is as well.

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Offline markjo

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Re: Explain this Phenomenon
« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2019, 01:08:54 PM »
When you are higher in altitude it pushes your vanishing point back into the distance and it takes longer for bodies to set. Those clouds are seeing the red sunset and it has already set for the observer.
Tom, how high do you have to go before the vanishing point is pushed far enough back so that the sun never appears to set?
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

Re: Explain this Phenomenon
« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2019, 01:17:39 PM »
I'm not FE myself, however I always like to consider what the best argument might be for the other side, and sometimes you can force yourself to consider new things this way.

So something that bothers me here is that not all sunsets look like this, and neither flat not round Earth dictates that the atmosphere and the clouds in it must hug the ground with even thickness at all times. It doesn't make sense to me then that this picture proves that the ground must be at a curve. These clouds could easily be set at their own arbitrary angles, independent from the ground, due to areas of high/low pressure.

Go search for underwater photography, like particularly viewing a wave with surf from beneath, and you'll see what I'm getting at here. Some of these photos look strikingly similar to weather systems you might see in the sky. It's not difficult to imagine how a sunset might light the surf from beneath if the surface was gently sloped by a long wave.