Re: Flat Earth Theory Unification Project - The Universal Accelerator
« Reply #60 on: November 27, 2018, 05:55:32 PM »
I will answer it now. I suspect you thought the equator should be coloured red according to RE because it ‘bulges out’ according to RE. Wrong. This is not what the red is measuring at all. The bulge has already been corrected by the theoretical calculation  for latitude.

Can you show us the gravity map with the earth's equator bulging out?

Here is an image search link for "Global Gravity Map."

https://www.google.com/search?&biw=1377&bih=661&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=0oP9W63RCo2tzwL395nYAg&q=gravity+world+map&oq=global+gravity+map

I don't see it.
Why would there be a gravity anomaly at the equator? You've not presented any need for one, and in fact there's no reason there should be one anyway. Again, what does the fact that gravity anomalies often coincide with increased volcanic activity have to do with anything?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Flat Earth Theory Unification Project - The Universal Accelerator
« Reply #61 on: November 27, 2018, 06:00:39 PM »
I will answer it now. I suspect you thought the equator should be coloured red according to RE because it ‘bulges out’ according to RE. Wrong. This is not what the red is measuring at all. The bulge has already been corrected by the theoretical calculation  for latitude.

Can you show us the gravity map with the earth's equator bulging out?

Here is an image search link for "Global Gravity Map."

https://www.google.com/search?&biw=1377&bih=661&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=0oP9W63RCo2tzwL395nYAg&q=gravity+world+map&oq=global+gravity+map

I don't see it.
Why would there be a gravity anomaly at the equator? You've not presented any need for one, and in fact there's no reason there should be one anyway. Again, what does the fact that gravity anomalies often coincide with increased volcanic activity have to do with anything?

Edby claimed there was one, and that it was corrected out of the gravity map we saw. He says that the gravity map we are looking at is only about anomalies. I am asking him to demonstrate his assertion, as I could not find that map.

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Offline RonJ

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Re: Flat Earth Theory Unification Project - The Universal Accelerator
« Reply #62 on: November 27, 2018, 06:06:50 PM »
https://www.watertown.k12.wi.us/faculty/wattsp/Earth%20layers%20article.pdf

It makes perfect sense that the molten rock inside the earth is more dense than the rock on the surface.   It is true that liquids and solids are less compressible than gasses.  But they are compressible.  I was taught in engineering school to just consider that water was incomprehensible.  I mentioned this to the deep diving submarine pilot aboard the same research ship I was working on.  He promptly showed me the parts on the submarine where compensation was needed to allow for the 0.5% per 1000 feet increase in water's density due to pressure. Now instead of 1000s of feet think 1000 of MILES and you can easily see that there's just a little more than conjecture that the liquid rock near the earths center might just possibly be more dense than whats near the surface.  I hope that you will find this argument a little more than a delusion of adequacy on my part.

If you look at the link you can also see some of the measurements that are taken by scientists to get an idea of the internal structure of the global earth.
For FE no explanation is possible, for RE no explanation is necessary.

Offline edby

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Re: Flat Earth Theory Unification Project - The Universal Accelerator
« Reply #63 on: November 27, 2018, 06:14:29 PM »
I will answer it now. I suspect you thought the equator should be coloured red according to RE because it ‘bulges out’ according to RE. Wrong. This is not what the red is measuring at all. The bulge has already been corrected by the theoretical calculation  for latitude.

Can you show us the gravity map with the earth's equator bulging out?

Here is an image search link for "Global Gravity Map."

I don't see it.
Exactly, and thanks for completely misunderstanding my point.

Offline edby

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Re: Flat Earth Theory Unification Project - The Universal Accelerator
« Reply #64 on: November 27, 2018, 06:17:21 PM »
Edby claimed there was one, and that it was corrected out of the gravity map we saw.
No, where did I claim that there was an anomaly at the equator?

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He says that the gravity map we are looking at is only about anomalies. I am asking him to demonstrate his assertion, as I could not find that map.
I explained exactly why the anomaly map is about anomalies, and I linked to a very clear presentation explaining this.

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Offline RonJ

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Re: Flat Earth Theory Unification Project - The Universal Accelerator
« Reply #65 on: November 27, 2018, 06:17:33 PM »
Tom needs to refresh his memory on the Somigliana Equation and it's meaning in relation to the earths gravity field.  Once that's completed, question asked & answered.
For FE no explanation is possible, for RE no explanation is necessary.

Offline edby

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Re: Flat Earth Theory Unification Project - The Universal Accelerator
« Reply #66 on: November 27, 2018, 06:20:57 PM »

Can you show us the gravity map with the earth's equator bulging out?

Here is an image search link for "Global Gravity Map."

I don't see it.
Wow. That's an anomaly map, not a gravity map. You really don't understand this do you? Could you please do some homework.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Flat Earth Theory Unification Project - The Universal Accelerator
« Reply #67 on: November 27, 2018, 06:21:41 PM »
Edby claimed there was one, and that it was corrected out of the gravity map we saw.
No, where did I claim that there was an anomaly at the equator?

Right here:

"I will answer it now. I suspect you thought the equator should be coloured red according to RE because it ‘bulges out’ according to RE. Wrong. This is not what the red is measuring at all. The bulge has already been corrected by the theoretical calculation  for latitude."

You said that it was corrected out. Therefore we must have been looking at some off-shoot to earth's true gravity map. Lets see it.

Offline edby

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Re: Flat Earth Theory Unification Project - The Universal Accelerator
« Reply #68 on: November 27, 2018, 06:26:11 PM »
Edby claimed there was one, and that it was corrected out of the gravity map we saw.
No, where did I claim that there was an anomaly at the equator?

Right here:

"I will answer it now. I suspect you thought the equator should be coloured red according to RE because it ‘bulges out’ according to RE. Wrong. This is not what the red is measuring at all. The bulge has already been corrected by the theoretical calculation  for latitude."

You said that it was corrected out. Therefore we must have been looking at some off-shoot to earth's true gravity map. Lets see it.
Ah right. You are confusing a correction with an anomaly.

[EDIT]Tom, can you please read this post https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=11397.msg174562#msg174562 where I explain what an anomaly is, and by implication why it should not be confused with a correction.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2018, 06:29:23 PM by edby »

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Flat Earth Theory Unification Project - The Universal Accelerator
« Reply #69 on: November 27, 2018, 06:55:40 PM »
Edby claimed there was one, and that it was corrected out of the gravity map we saw.
No, where did I claim that there was an anomaly at the equator?

Right here:

"I will answer it now. I suspect you thought the equator should be coloured red according to RE because it ‘bulges out’ according to RE. Wrong. This is not what the red is measuring at all. The bulge has already been corrected by the theoretical calculation  for latitude."

You said that it was corrected out. Therefore we must have been looking at some off-shoot to earth's true gravity map. Lets see it.
Ah right. You are confusing a correction with an anomaly.

[EDIT]Tom, can you please read this post https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=11397.msg174562#msg174562 where I explain what an anomaly is, and by implication why it should not be confused with a correction.

It's not about what you can explain, speculate about, or think what happened; but what you can demonstrate. You are incorrect by default. You are only correct until you can demonstrate yourself to be correct.

You linked to a lecture with an equation for correcting for latitude. Was it used? Why can't we find any maps with the real gravity values?

Offline edby

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Re: Flat Earth Theory Unification Project - The Universal Accelerator
« Reply #70 on: November 27, 2018, 06:59:32 PM »
It's not about what you can explain, speculate about, or think what happened
No, it's about understanding what the theory is. You need to show some understanding first, rather than alighting upon the first return from Google and completely mangling it.

Then we can discuss. Only until then, OK? Read the post of mine I linked to.

Offline edby

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Re: Flat Earth Theory Unification Project - The Universal Accelerator
« Reply #71 on: November 27, 2018, 07:03:27 PM »
Why can't we find any maps with the real gravity values?

I posted a chart (not a map) in an earlier post. Here it is again. These are absolute observed gravity values at different latitudes (74 and 77).
You note straight away there is a massive difference. This then needs to be ‘corrected’ for latitude, on they hypothesis that the difference is explained by latitude.

You will object that it shouldn’t be corrected? OK, let’s see where that leads us.

[EDIT]  Oh yes, and these aren't gravity values, but acceleration values. As I pointed out, this is what the instrument is reporting, independent of any theory about what it is measuring.


« Last Edit: November 27, 2018, 07:05:11 PM by edby »

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Flat Earth Theory Unification Project - The Universal Accelerator
« Reply #72 on: November 27, 2018, 07:14:46 PM »
It's not about what you can explain, speculate about, or think what happened
No, it's about understanding what the theory is. You need to show some understanding first, rather than alighting upon the first return from Google and completely mangling it.

Then we can discuss. Only until then, OK? Read the post of mine I linked to.

You want us to read a college lecture which mentions the theory of correcting by latitude, which you found on google, and so therefore we must assume that all of these systems and maps did so?

Why can't we find any maps with the real gravity values?

I posted a chart (not a map) in an earlier post. Here it is again. These are absolute observed gravity values at different latitudes (74 and 77).
You note straight away there is a massive difference. This then needs to be ‘corrected’ for latitude, on they hypothesis that the difference is explained by latitude.

You will object that it shouldn’t be corrected? OK, let’s see where that leads us.

[EDIT]  Oh yes, and these aren't gravity values, but acceleration values. As I pointed out, this is what the instrument is reporting, independent of any theory about what it is measuring.

http://www.logicmuseum.com/w/images/2/2f/Acceleration_at_74_and_77_lat.jpg

What are you showing us? You just told us that they regularly correct for latitude. Is this an anomaly? Is it corrected for latitude? What is it? What is your argument?

Demonstration is key. Not random assumptions.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2018, 07:16:51 PM by Tom Bishop »

Offline edby

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Re: Flat Earth Theory Unification Project - The Universal Accelerator
« Reply #73 on: November 27, 2018, 07:27:29 PM »
What are you showing us? You just told us that they regularly correct for latitude. Is this an anomaly?
No it's a correction. Again, read the presentation so you understand the difference between 'correction' and 'anomaly'.

That's enough.

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Demonstration is key.
No, a basic willingness to understand is key.

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Offline RonJ

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Re: Flat Earth Theory Unification Project - The Universal Accelerator
« Reply #74 on: November 27, 2018, 07:36:23 PM »
There's little willingness to understand, that's the whole objective.  You can present all the evidence you want but it's wasted effort if the evidence won't be believed even before it's presented. 
Maybe there needs to be a standard for both a question and the depth of proof necessary for belief before a question can be answered.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2018, 07:44:22 PM by RonJ »
For FE no explanation is possible, for RE no explanation is necessary.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Flat Earth Theory Unification Project - The Universal Accelerator
« Reply #75 on: November 27, 2018, 07:53:40 PM »
Sometimes they correct for latitude when it supports your argument, and then other times they don't correct for latitude in situations which do not support your argument. Totally absurd debating strategy. You should be expected to know the systems if you are defending them.

Offline edby

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Re: Flat Earth Theory Unification Project - The Universal Accelerator
« Reply #76 on: November 27, 2018, 08:10:26 PM »
Sometimes they correct for latitude when it supports your argument, and then other times they don't correct for latitude in situations which do not support your argument. Totally absurd debating strategy. You should be expected to know the systems if you are defending them.
You should be expected to understand the argument if you intend to debate it. Your first sentence shows a total lack of comprehension, once again.

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Offline RonJ

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Re: Flat Earth Theory Unification Project - The Universal Accelerator
« Reply #77 on: November 27, 2018, 08:10:39 PM »
The USGS has all the data you need both raw and processed. Everything was collected to exacting standards that can be read.  You can put in or take out any corrections you desire.  All you have to do is be willing to do the work necessary to process and observe what you need.
For FE no explanation is possible, for RE no explanation is necessary.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Flat Earth Theory Unification Project - The Universal Accelerator
« Reply #78 on: November 27, 2018, 08:25:18 PM »
Edby, it's simple. Here is the source you got those numbers from: https://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2004/1190/2004-1190.pdf

Show us where they are, or the machine is, correcting for, or not correcting for, latitude in those numbers.

Go find one of the world-wide gravity maps. Show us where they are, or the machine is, correcting for, or not correcting for, latitude in those numbers.

What you are arguing is not clear at all. You are simultaneously arguing two opposite things and and telling us to "learn more".

Offline edby

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Re: Flat Earth Theory Unification Project - The Universal Accelerator
« Reply #79 on: November 27, 2018, 08:30:49 PM »
You are simultaneously arguing two opposite things and and telling us to "learn more".
If you learned more you would see I am not simultaneously claiming two opposite things. You need to understand the difference between an anomaly and a correction. There is a Wikipedia page on this, the presentation I linked to, plus my previous post I linked to.

Why not say what you think the difference is, then I am happy to discuss. If you tell me you still don't know, then I will try again, but my patience is a bit thin right now.

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Show us where they are, or the machine is, correcting for, or not correcting for, latitude in those numbers.
I already explained that. https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=11397.msg174603#msg174603

« Last Edit: November 27, 2018, 08:36:43 PM by edby »