Common FE Straw Men
« on: October 22, 2018, 09:37:40 AM »
I thought it would be good to have a thread where common FE straw men are collated.
Honestly, these things do not paint the FES in a good light.
RE people are often accused of straw manning - with some justification, maybe we should have a separate thread for that - but FE people do it a lot too.

So, to kick us off



The water flies off this spinning ball, why doesn't it fly off the earth if it's spinning so fast?
And the answer, quite simply, is angular velocity. The earth only spins one revolution per day (that is literally the definition of a day), so while yes the speed sounds high, the angular velocity is very low and that's why water and we don't go flying off.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Common FE Straw Men
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2018, 11:49:24 AM »
And the answer, quite simply, is angular velocity. The earth only spins one revolution per day (that is literally the definition of a day), so while yes the speed sounds high, the angular velocity is very low and that's why water and we don't go flying off.
Didn't you miss a factor or two? The Round Earth would be much more massive than a tennis ball, thus having a much stronger gravitational field. On the other hand, the surface tension of a relatively small amount of water will mess with any potential results. These things do not scale well with size.

Another common strawman by the no-gravity crowd is that since Australia is "upside down", it would somehow be more difficult for things to remain on Earth there.

[Also I'm moving both threads to FEC - seems much more appropriate if we're meant to actively seek out flawed arguments]
« Last Edit: October 22, 2018, 11:53:55 AM by Pete Svarrior »
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*mic stays stationary and earth accelerates upwards towards it*

Re: Common FE Straw Men
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2018, 01:50:31 PM »
This is a gravity one which winds me up



*sigh*

In brief: density. Yes, collectively the cloud weighs a lot, but clouds are very big and that weight is distributed over a large area, each individual drop of water is small enough that air currents keep it suspended. Anyone who has been in a hot shower and seen the whole bathroom fill with mist has witnessed this effect.

And when the drops do get too big and heavy enough that gravity does cause them to fall then they do. It's called rain.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Common FE Straw Men
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2018, 03:04:23 PM »
LOL. Find some YouTube videos or serious articles about those subjects. Those are called troll memes, and only a giant dummy would fall for it.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2018, 08:41:34 PM by Tom Bishop »

Re: Common FE Straw Men
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2018, 03:06:44 PM »
LOL. Find some YouTube videos or serious article about those subjects. Those are called a troll memes and shows you to be a giant dummy for falling for it.
I've certainly seen YouTube videos with some of these claims.
I'd suggest a serious FE article is an oxymoron.

And the first one is more-or-less what you are claiming in your post about the way our velocity changes as the earth rotates and how we should feel the acceleration.
The above is a more extreme version but based on the same basic misunderstanding.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Common FE Straw Men
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2018, 03:09:42 PM »
I've certainly seen YouTube videos with some of these claims basic misunderstanding.

The only misunderstanding is on your part in terms of what our arguments are. No one has made those arguments. You are falling for Twitter troll memes.

Re: Common FE Straw Men
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2018, 03:17:57 PM »
I've certainly seen YouTube videos with some of these claims basic misunderstanding.

The only misunderstanding is on your part in terms of what our arguments are. No one has made those arguments. You are falling for Twitter troll memes.
Right. So these are troll memes, but claims about 100m buildings being hidden by 1m waves are part of serious FE theory? Or clouds being lit from below because shadows are affected by perspective. That's the serious stuff, is it? You see how that could confuse a stupid person. These arguments ARE being made by people - you are claiming those people aren't serious, I think they are. Maybe not all of them, but there are some very ignorant people out there making these claims.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Re: Common FE Straw Men
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2018, 03:23:20 PM »
No one has made those arguments.
In this thread

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=7120.msg128191#msg128191

J-man is making that exact argument, that still water proves we are not spinning. OK, his argument is not as extreme as the one in the meme but it's same ballpark.
And these memes came from here:

http://goodflattitude.com/

Or one did, anyway. Is this not a serious site? How do I tell? I mean, some of the arguments are ridiculous and show ignorance of science, but I think that about some of the things I see on here.
Do you see the problem?
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Offline JCM

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Re: Common FE Straw Men
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2018, 08:38:36 PM »
Arguments using numbers or statistics are often tossed aside and ridiculed Round Earth Math as if math depends on the shape of the globe is often used to derail discussions.   RE math is also used to describe indoctrination by society and therefore not applicable to FE theory.

Re: Common FE Straw Men
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2018, 12:11:54 PM »
Common straw man in FE videos: if the Earth was spinning, you could hover with a helicopter and wait for the ground to move below you.
Others say that a plane travelling West should cover less distance than a plane travelling East. Or that pilots could never land safely. Or that you should encounter terrible winds as soon as you step outside.

I'm sure these have been answered a million times, but they're still an entry point for many people into the FE 'common sense'.

The atmosphere as a whole spins along with the globe. The air is subject to inertia and gravity, as much as solids. Just because you take to the air doesn't mean that you're freed from the rotation.
Every air flow that doesn't follow the Earth's rotation, aka wind, is eventually slowed down by friction with the solid surface. This in turn creates friction with higher winds.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 01:47:31 PM by titidam »
Where does Earth Not a Globe say that all beliefs contrary to the Scriptures are necessarily wrong?  ???