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Other Discussion Boards => Science & Alternative Science => Topic started by: Tom Bishop on July 09, 2015, 11:05:24 PM

Title: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on July 09, 2015, 11:05:24 PM
Disclaimer: This thread contains my own opinion on the possibility of cancer treatment with natural substances. Please consult a medical professional, such as a naturopathic doctor, before attempting to treat yourself or your loved ones for deadly diseases. Make sure to do a lot of research on the options available to you.

There are certain people in the world who will tell you that cancer is terrible and impossible to cure without hundreds of thousands of dollars of state of the art medical care. I am here to tell you that this is false. Curing cancer is trivial. One does not need to consult an industry which profiteers off the backs of the dying. One merely needs to consult nature, which has already provided everything we need for our survival.

Natural remedies are the best remedies because humans and their natural food sources are in symbioses. Our fruits and vegetables depend on animals to spread their seeds through their feces, and will never deliberately hurt us. In fact, they have evolved to benefit us, as we benefit them, and make sure to feed us with an assortment of vitamins and nutrition as incentive.

We also have shared enemies with the plants, such as fungus, bacteria, and viruses. Plants will also get cancer (http://www.popsci.com/article/science/ask-anything-do-plants-get-cancer), just like we do. It stands to reason, therefore, that anything a plant makes to repel those things will benefit us as well.

One such cure for cancer involves the usage of garlic and peppers, which will kill cancer cells. Consider this man, Kelley Eidem, author of The Doctor Who Cures Cancer, who cured his own Stage 4 Cancer in 2 weeks and $20:

How I Cured My Stage 4 Cancer In Two Weeks For Less Than The Cost Of A Night At The Movies (http://kelleyeidem.hubpages.com/hub/How-I-Cured-Stage-4-Cancer-in-Two-Weeks-For-Less-Than-The-Cost-Of-A-Night-At-The-Movies)

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For several decades, modern medicine has tried a lot of toxic compounds, hoping to 'out-toxic' the cancer. And sure enough, the compounds did out-toxic cancer. Unfortunately, it usually out-toxics the patient as well. The result has been that cancer treatments are usually an expensive, painful and scary proposition. But you already knew that.

I didn't go bald or get sick to my stomach!

Fortunately, my Stage 4 cancer was none of the above for me. My advanced cancer treatment cost less than two tickets and popcorn at the movies. My treatment wasn't painful. And I wasn't scared...I didn't lose a minute's sleep...because I knew what to do. If we've learned anything about treating cancer in the last 50 to 60 years it has to be this: half killing the patient isn't half way successful. As I emphatically told a woman in my store recently, "You gotta be healthy to get well! In my own case, I knew by the many lesions I had that I was already sick. I didn't need someone to help make me sicker. I needed to get healthy, so I could get well.

UCLA Researchers Confirm My Method!

Maybe the best place to start with this would be to let you know that researchers at UCLA garnered lots of headlines two years ago because they had done something pretty incredible. (1) What had the UCLA researchers done? They shrank tumors by 80% with the heat from habaneros peppers. That is quite extraordinary in terms of what is usually accomplished with toxic drugs.

It's also worth noting that in the US the State of New Mexico has the lowest cancer mortality rate of all 50 states. They probably eat more peppers in New Mexico per capita than all the other states, too. In other words, the researchers at UCLA made a great choice in examining the anti-cancer properties of hot peppers.

My own success in curing myself with habaneros peppers preceded the UCLA researchers by seven years. And I didn't shrink my many tumors by 80%...I shrank them 100%. UCLA's research results did confirm that my own method was an extremely powerful weapon against cancer. I'm eternally grateful for their confirmation. But then, I used habaneros peppers PLUS two more low tech ingredients...running rings around the findings made by the UCLA guys and gals.

Here is his recipe from that link:

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Here's a real brief recipe list here.

(1) Grate one habanero pepper each day, putting it on bread. Yes, you use the seeds. (2) Grate two cloves of garlic each day, putting them on bread and covering with butter. (3) One tablespoon of Emulsified cod liver oil once or twice each day.* TwinLabs makes some wonderfully flavored cod liver oil.

The cod liver oil is not put on the sandwich. One serving of the oil may be taken before or after eating the sandwich with the same meal

I used the cod liver oil because I was not losing any weight or dealing with fluid retention. If I had either of those conditions, I would have used evening primrose oil or borage oil instead of the emulsified cod liver oil, taking 6,000 mgs a day in divided doses.*

(4) Smother the grated garlic and habaneros peppers with real butter and eat it. Organic or raw butter is best. No margarines of any type, including Smart Balance, etc.

If hot peppers didn't agree with me, then ginger is what I would use - and yes I trust the ginger just as much as the habanero to do the job.

That's it!

* The best way to determine which oil I would use can be determined easily if there is pain. In fact there are two ways. One way would be to drink a cup of black coffee with two boiled eggs. (boiled only.) If that made me feel worse, I'd take 1 or 2 tablespoons of emulsified cod liver oil. If the coffee and eggs made me feel better, I'd take 6,000 mgs of borage oil or evening primrose oil.

The potent active ingredients from the peppers and the garlic disperse quickly. So they must be grated each day, and eaten immediately.

We also learn that this recipe can treat many types of cancer:

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1AA - Has your recipe cured my type of cancer?

I have some great news for you. Doctors and TV have miseducated us into thinking there are over 100 types of cancer. There is only one true cancer cell. That means all true cancer cells are identical. They look different only due to the involved tissue.

Doctors call true cancer cells "highly undifferentiated." IOW, they are looking at a real cancer cell but don't know it because in their mind they think it is supposed to look different!

So you can take heart when you read about any of the accounts here. A colon cancer is a breast cancer is a leukemia etc, etc, etc. There is no difference between any of those cancers other than the involved non cancerous tissue and the surrounding pH. Yes, the cancer cells will distort the way the particular tissue or organ looks like. But the cancer is the same.

The Stage numbers given to cancer (I, II, III, IV) are merely describing how much cancer there is and how far it has spread. Staging doesn't change the nature of the actual cancer cells on iota - there are just more of them.

Edit: More evidence that Garlic Reverses Cancer

http://truedemocracyparty.net/2013/11/garlic-the-natural-cure-8-scientific-studies-that-prove-garlic-kills-cancer-dead-dead-dead/

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In Dr. Earl Mindell’s Garlic: The Miracle Nutrient, a 1957 study in the journal Science reported that researchers incubated sarcoma tumor cells with the garlic compound Allinase and S-ethyl-L-cysteine sulfoxide, then injected the tumor cells into mice. Tumor growth was completely inhibited and the mice survived beyond the sixth month observation period according to researchers. Mice injected with the tumor cells only (without the garlic compound), survived only 2 months.

http://www.miracleofgarlic.com/cancer-and-garlic/

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The good news is research into garlic against cancer has shown positive results.  In laboratory tests with mice, garlic stabilized and actually shrunk tumors.  In mice injected with garlic extracts, tumor growth decreased by 30-50%.  In mice that were given dietary garlic, the growths decreased by 10-25%.

http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9707/21/nfm.garlic.cancer/index.html

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One study, at the Mercy Cancer Institute in Pittsburgh, shows that garlic can help slow the growth of tumors.

"We have shown that some of these compounds prevent cancer in animals, and we hope that's the case in humans," said Shivendra Singh of the institute.

"We know how these garlic compounds are inhibiting cancer, but whether or not they have some kind of specificity for certain types of tumors, that remains to be seen," he said.

Other studies, some of them at West Virginia University, have found that garlic can inhibit the growth of breast cancer.

Also, says Dr. Donald Lamm of West Virginia University, "garlic very significantly reduced the growth of bladder tumors in mice."

Researchers at the university think garlic may help boost the immune system in laboratory mice, thereby reducing the growth of cancerous cells.

More Animal Studies:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3632025/

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Conclusions:

Administration of AGE (aged garlic extract ) resulted in improved immune responses against experimentally implanted fibrosarcoma tumors in BALB/c mice. AGE showed significant effects on inhibition of tumor growth and longevity of survival times.

Garlic as compared to the chemotherapy drug Cisplatin for treating cancer:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29595070

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The Anticancer Effects of Garlic Extracts on Bladder Cancer Compared to Cisplatin

Abstract

Although garlic induces apoptosis in cancer cells, it is unclear whether the effects are similar to those of cisplatin against bladder cancer (BC). Therefore, this study investigated whether garlic extracts and cisplatin show similar activity when used to treat BC. The effect of garlic on T24 BC cell line was examined in a BALB/C-nude mouse xenograft model and compared with that of cisplatin. Tissue microarray analysis and gene network analysis were performed to identify differences in gene expression by control tumors and tumors exposed to garlic extract or cisplatin. Investigation of gene expression based on tissues from 165 BC patients and normal controls was then performed to identify common targets of garlic and cisplatin. Tumor volume and tumor weight in cisplatin (0.05[Formula: see text]mg/kg)- and garlic-treated mice were significantly smaller than those in negative control mice. However, cisplatin-treated mice also showed a significant reduction in body weight. Microarray analysis of tumor tissue identified 515 common anticancer genes in the garlic and cisplatin groups ([Formula: see text]). Gene network analysis of 252 of these genes using the Cytoscape and ClueGo software packages mapped 17 genes and 9 gene ontologies to gene networks. BC (NMIBC and MIBC) patients with low expression of centromere protein M (CENPM) showed significantly better progression-free survival than those with high expression. Garlic extract shows anticancer activity in vivo similar to that of cisplatin, with no evidence of side effects. Both appear to act by targeting protein-DNA complex assembly; in particular, expression of CENPM.

The one above says that garlic is just as good as a popular chemotherapy drug.

Humans:

https://books.google.com/books?id=t22vBQAAQBAJ&lpg=PA244&ots=SQEqINl0gT&dq=allicin%20cured%20cancer%20in%20mice&pg=PA245#v=onepage&q&f=false

(https://i.imgur.com/3TxsioN.png)

...


(https://i.imgur.com/O7VfRcz.png)

Garlic tested on mammalian cancer cells, including human:

The Effects of Allicin, a Reactive Sulfur Species from
Garlic, on a Selection of Mammalian Cell Lines (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=12&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiV8pLGkc3cAhUCX60KHUHCB6cQFjALegQIExAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mdpi.com%2F2076-3921%2F6%2F1%2F1%2Fpdf&usg=AOvVaw2c0-jcdqgDtzkGXFprT-0Y)

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2.1. Cell Lines and Cultivation
Cell lines: A549 (human alveolar basal epithelial adenocarcinoma cell, ATCC#CCL-185), NIH 3T3
(neonatal fibroblasts from Mouse, ATCC#CRL-1658) HUVEC (human umbilical vein endothelial cells),
HT29 (human colorectal epithelial carcinoma, ATCC#HTB-38) and MCF7 (human mammary carcinoma,
ATCC#HTB-22) were from the Department of Immunology, Cochin Hospital, Paris Descartes
University, Paris, France. Cells were cultivated in complete medium containing RPMI Medium
(Roswell Park Memorial Institute Medium, Invitrogen) containing 10% FCS (foetal calf serum) and
1% Penicillin/Streptomycin (10,000 U/mL) (Invitrogen, Waltham, MA, USA). Cells were incubated at
37 C and 5% CO2.

...


These data show that allicin is an inhibitor of cell viability and cell proliferation in a concentration
dependent manner, but that different cell lines show different sensitivities.

Are the above researchers lying?

We saw that Garlic performed similarly to a popular chemotherapy drug. Were those researchers lying or mistaken?

Garlic suppresses cancer in humans:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16484573

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Aged garlic extract has potential suppressive effect on colorectal adenomas in humans.
Tanaka S1, Haruma K, Yoshihara M, Kajiyama G, Kira K, Amagase H, Chayama K.

Abstract
Epidemiological and animal studies suggest AGE and its organosulfur constituents, such as S-allylcysteine and S-allylmercaptocysteine have anticarcinogenic effects. To confirm these effects in humans, a preliminary double-blind, randomized clinical trial using high-dose AGE (AGE 2.4 mL/d) as an active treatment and low-dose AGE (AGE 0.16 mL/d) as a control was performed on patients with colorectal adenomas-precancerous lesions of the large bowel. The study enrolled 51 patients who were diagnosed as carrying colorectal adenomas. The patients were randomly assigned to the two groups after adenomas larger than 5 mm in diameter were removed by polypectomy. The number and size of adenomas right before intake (0 mo) and at 6 and 12 mo after intake were measured using colonoscopy. Thirty-seven patients (19 in the active group, 18 in the control group) completed the study and were evaluated for the efficacy of AGE. The number of adenomas increased linearly in the control group from the beginning (the baseline), but AGE significantly suppressed both the size and number of colon adenomas in patients after 12 mo of high-dose treatment (P=0.04). The results suggest AGE suppresses progression of colorectal adenomas in humans. It appears that AGE has multiple pathways to reduce cancer incidence and suppress its growth and proliferation.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on July 09, 2015, 11:25:48 PM
In ancient times garlic was used as a treatment for cancer:

http://www.all4naturalhealth.com/garlic-and-cancer.html (http://www.all4naturalhealth.com/garlic-and-cancer.html)

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Is garlic anti cancer in nature? There is indeed a clear link between garlic and cancer reduction, as demonstrated by traditional wisdom and numerous studies.

During ancient times, garlic was used for the treatment of uterine cancer. Hippocrates, who is widely regarded as and referred to as the Father of Modern Medicine, was said to have used garlic to treat cancerous tumors.

Researchers have likewise found evidence that garlic inhibits cancer:

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2004/01/17/garlic-cancer-part-two.aspx

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Researchers have found that allicin, a chemical found in garlic that gives it its flavor, could be used to fight cancer. A previous study also found that allicin can fight MRSA, or staph infection. Although allicin is toxic, it breaks down quickly and harmlessly when eaten. The chemical is not present in unbroken cloves of garlic, but is produced when the clove is broken.

It is through this natural chemical reaction that allicin may be able to fight cancer. Researchers recreated the toxic reaction between alliinase and alliin (the two components that covert to allicin) at tumor sites by using an antibody that had been programmed to recognize tumor cells. The antibody was bound to alliinase and injected into the bloodstream to find cancer cells.

Peppers, too, have been shown to have cancer-fighting properties. Consider these links:

Capsaicin, a Component of Red Peppers, Inhibits the Growth of Androgen-Independent, p53 Mutant Prostate Cancer Cells (http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/66/6/3222.abstract)

In this study, the researchers found that capsaicin is the active ingredient in red peppers and it induced apoptosis (death) in prostate cancer cells.

Capsaicin inhibits benzo(a)pyrene-induced lung carcinogenesis in an in vivo mouse model. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22735861)

Researchers of this study concluded that capsaicin helped protect against lung cancer in mice.  The mice were exposed to benzo(a)pyrene – a powerful carcinogen but the capsaicin helped protect them.

Capsaicin-induced apoptosis of FaDu human pharyngeal squamous carcinoma cells.  (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22735861)

In this study, researchers found that capsaicin induced apoptosis (cell death) in human pharyngeal squamous carcinoma cells.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: mister bickles on July 13, 2015, 10:50:21 AM
tumeric and ginger;
also: apricot kernels
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Misero on July 24, 2015, 12:10:14 PM
In ancient times garlic was used as a treatment for cancer:

http://www.all4naturalhealth.com/garlic-and-cancer.html (http://www.all4naturalhealth.com/garlic-and-cancer.html)

And they put disease-carrying leeches and bled you out to cure diseases. Their medicine sucked.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on July 24, 2015, 10:38:25 PM
In ancient times garlic was used as a treatment for cancer:

http://www.all4naturalhealth.com/garlic-and-cancer.html (http://www.all4naturalhealth.com/garlic-and-cancer.html)

And they put disease-carrying leeches and bled you out to cure diseases. Their medicine sucked.

Except that garlic and peppers are not a medicine of man's creation, but the medicine of nature and evolution.

A bird will happily eat the hottest of peppers. A cat will eat bitter grasses from instinct. Animal and plant have evolved to complement each other in health and nutrition. To compare the medicines in natural foods to unnatural medicines or medical procedures, is unjust. One type of medicine has a creator with billions of years of experience in trial and error and the other does not.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: beardo on July 25, 2015, 01:54:48 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WP3X0dSV9kI
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: DuckDodgers on July 31, 2015, 08:05:38 PM
Cats tend to vomit after eating grass.  Non-meat food items aren't very healthy for them.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Pete Svarrior on August 02, 2015, 11:11:37 PM
Cats tend to vomit after eating grass.  Non-meat food items aren't very healthy for them.
That depends on your definition of "healthy". Regurgitation is an important part of a cat's life, although admittedly less so in the case of a domesticated cat. Since cats often eat their prey whole, they end up swallowing a fair amount of inedible parts. The grass helps them clear their digestive track and, in many cases, prevents illness.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Ghost Spaghetti on August 04, 2015, 02:02:53 PM
My Nan has just been diagnosed with ovarian cancer. Still want to talk shit about how it's 'easily cured'?
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Blanko on August 04, 2015, 02:06:52 PM
My Nan has just been diagnosed with ovarian cancer. Still want to talk shit about how it's 'easily cured'?

If it were easily cured, you'd be doing a disservice not telling her about it.

Either way, is that supposed to be a threat? I can't imagine why your personal experience would intimidate anyone.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Ghost Spaghetti on August 04, 2015, 02:10:24 PM
it's not a threat. It's an appeal to the non-troll part of To--

Oh who am I kidding?
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Blanko on August 04, 2015, 02:11:38 PM
I'm sure Tom is already aware that there in fact are people with cancer. Adding one more to the list is not exactly a shocking revelation.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Pete Svarrior on August 04, 2015, 02:18:19 PM
Ghost Spaghetti is like those American moms who feel the need to point out that they have a disabled son when they're not happy with the service they were provided in a supermarket. They seem to think their personal sad-sad-no-no feels (which may or may not be real) will make others pander to them.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Ghost Spaghetti on August 04, 2015, 02:22:17 PM
That's exactly what I'm like. ::)
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Pete Svarrior on August 04, 2015, 02:22:42 PM
That's exactly what I'm like. ::)
Yes:

My Nan has just been diagnosed with ovarian cancer. Still want to talk shit about how it's 'easily cured'?
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Ghost Spaghetti on August 04, 2015, 02:24:08 PM
The similarity is staggering.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Hoppy on August 04, 2015, 03:09:02 PM
The similarity is staggering.
It is exactamundo. ::)
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: mister bickles on August 06, 2015, 05:56:09 PM
the main cause of cancer is jews!  >:(
jews control large chunks of (so-called) Western medicine and the pharmaceutical industry;
the jew/crypto-jew doctors mis-diagnose and the jew-controlled pharmaceutical industry then pushes mostly toxic drugs on to people...effectively poisoning them  >:(
the whole rationale of Western medicine is bogus.....going back to the old days;
'surgery' is more or less jew butchery;
(the early Church was violently opposed to surgery and anatomical dissections....but the satanic jews and their filthy tools, the Freemasons, won out :(  )
the real basis of health or illness is based on frequencies.....
in fact: even major injuries can be cured by application of specific frequencies which causes the cells to regenerate and repair them-selfs.....
(many Asian cultures such as the Chinese actually know this....hence their references to 'internal energy' and T'ai Chi...although they are in error, i think, abt some aspects of this)
many people are now aware of the dangers of vaccination....a method of goyim-control mentioned in "The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion";
many people are also leery of psychiatrists (many of whom are, again, jews or crypto-jews like Freemasons)
how-ever, most people still have a certain amount of trust in 'doctors'.....this is very foolish..... :( ...and i would strongly advise people to steer well clear of these misery-mongers except in life-and-death-type situations....

Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet on August 06, 2015, 08:40:45 PM

And I thought Toms original stance was mental!
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Misero on August 21, 2015, 07:08:28 PM
Go give someone with cancer these things, and they are going to die like every other untreated patient.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on August 21, 2015, 08:43:25 PM
Go give someone with cancer these things, and they are going to die like every other untreated patient.

You don't believe that nature can medicate the body?
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Misero on August 23, 2015, 02:11:38 PM
What in onions has the ability to destroy cells with malformed DNA?

Oh, and screw bickles. Go die in a fire.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on August 24, 2015, 08:52:32 PM
What in onions has the ability to destroy cells with malformed DNA?

Garlic and peppers kill off the many parasites which live in your body, freeing up your immune system to fight the cancer. In fact, there are studies showing that cancers are associated with certain parasite infections (http://medind.nic.in/iau/t05/i2/iaut05i2p74.pdf), perhaps even as a cause.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Misero on September 26, 2015, 01:47:01 PM
"Freeing up your immune system"
So if I have a cold, and smallpox, it will fight the cold instead?
And, in what way could a parasite inject DNA into a cell to make it cancerous?
Oh sorry, I forgot DNA does not exist. In the flat earth land, anything smaller than you can see does not exist.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on September 28, 2015, 03:12:36 PM
Cancer is a defense mechanism response to parasites and disease. Tumors are usually benign, and go away, but if the body is too compromised with disease, those growth genes will not switch off and the cancer will grow and spread as the body's last ditch effort to survive.

See this article by Andreas Mortiz: Cancer is not a Disease - It's a Survival Mechanism (http://www.naturalnews.com/022578_cancer_body_disease.html)
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: AMann on September 30, 2015, 09:26:05 PM
Cancer is a defense mechanism response to parasites and disease. Tumors are usually benign, and go away, but if the body is too compromised with disease, those growth genes will not switch off and the cancer will grow and spread as the body's last ditch effort to survive.

See this article by Andreas Mortiz: Cancer is not a Disease - It's a Survival Mechanism (http://www.naturalnews.com/022578_cancer_body_disease.html)

Right now, I am really happy you are not a doctor (specifically an oncologist)... you would kill a lot of patients.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on September 30, 2015, 11:26:27 PM
Right now, I am really happy you are not a doctor (specifically an oncologist)... you would kill a lot of patients.

If I were an oncologist practicing traditional oncology 60% of my patients would be dead within 5 years (http://www.thomlatimercares.org/Cancer_Facts.htm).

According to that same article, in the 1930's before modern oncology, 75% of cancer patients would have died within 5 years. 1 in 4 would people would have survived by their own natural survival mechanisms without any medical help at all.

Modern medicine and its trillions of dollars have added a whooping 15% survival rate, and this is ignoring the many people who regress years later. So how great is modern oncology at fighting cancer, really?
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: AMann on October 01, 2015, 09:23:40 PM
Right now, I am really happy you are not a doctor (specifically an oncologist)... you would kill a lot of patients.

If I were an oncologist practicing traditional oncology 60% of my patients would be dead within 5 years (http://www.thomlatimercares.org/Cancer_Facts.htm).

According to that same article, in the 1930's before modern oncology, 75% of cancer patients would have died within 5 years. 1 in 4 would people would have survived by their own natural survival mechanisms without any medical help at all.

Modern medicine and its trillions of dollars have added a whooping 15% survival rate, and this is ignoring the many people who regress years later. So how great is modern oncology at fighting cancer, really?

How great is modern oncology at fighting cancer? Not great. No one said it was. That's why there is constant research to find better ways to fight cancer. That said, modern oncology treatments are more effective the alternative treatments (like garlic) pushed by those who distrust modern medicine. In spite of individual success stories, a higher percentage of patients die under alternative treatments than through standard oncology. While the success stories fuel their propoganda, they conveniently ignore the deaths...

Cancer is natural. Your body produces (on average) 300 cancer cells a day. In a healthy body, our natural defenses recognize these abnormal cells that divide uncontrollably and destroy them. It is when these cells multiply so much that they overwhelm our defenses that the disease 'cancer' emerges and can lead to death. Our body's natural defenses do not go away and continue to fight the cancer. In some cases, simple changes in diet (like consuming garlic, which has been shown to have anti-carcenogenic propoerties) that can boost your natural defenses can be enough to push you into recovery. In most cases, however, you need more help in order to fight.

Chemotherapy. One of the most common forms of modern oncology treatment. Many complain that it is poison that we are putting into our bodies and not helpful. Yes, it is a lot of bad stuff (which is why you would not use it if you didn't have cancer), but the properties of the items in the concoction is why it is effective. It targets dividing cells. Since most cells in our bodies are not dividing (there is always division going on, but cells are not in a constant state of division), it does not affect most of our body. Cancer cells are in a constant state of division and are therefore targeted by the treatment. Other parts of the body are in constant states of cell division though, so we see side-effects: hair follicles, which is why chemotherapy patients lose their hair, gastro-intestinal linings, which is why they have nausea and diarhea, sex-organs, which is why chemotherapy can cause sterility and early menopause and bone marrow, which is why patients can have low red-blood counts. The effects on the red-blood counts, as well as the damage chemotherapy causes the liver and kidneys, is why there is a decent amount of space in between treatments.

Cancer is a nasty beast. The earlier the cancer is discovered, the better the survival rate.

That is not to say that alternative treatments do not have their benefits. Like your original post, where you talked about garlic. Garlic has been definitively shown to have anti-cancer affects and will certainly boost your body's ability to fight cancer. However, to call it a cure is deceptive. It is not a cure. At best, it is a boost to your body's defense against cancer.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on October 02, 2015, 12:12:36 AM
If some garlic will kill cancer, then lots of garlic will cure cancer. It's not really such a difficult leap. You might as well tell me it's only possible to get a little wet from my refrigerator's water dispenser.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: andruszkow on October 05, 2015, 10:51:44 AM
If some garlic will kill cancer, then lots of garlic will cure cancer. It's not really such a difficult leap. You might as well tell me it's only possible to get a little wet from my refrigerator's water dispenser.

On behalf of the sane portion of mankind: Your beliefs and those they affect are nothing short but dangerous. You need to seek help immediately.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: junker on October 07, 2015, 07:57:59 PM
If some garlic will kill cancer, then lots of garlic will cure cancer. It's not really such a difficult leap. You might as well tell me it's only possible to get a little wet from my refrigerator's water dispenser.

On behalf of the sane portion of mankind: Your beliefs and those they affect are nothing short but dangerous. You need to seek help immediately.

If you have nothing to add except an insult, please refrain from posting. Thank you.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: AMann on October 11, 2015, 09:59:42 PM
If some garlic will kill cancer, then lots of garlic will cure cancer. It's not really such a difficult leap. You might as well tell me it's only possible to get a little wet from my refrigerator's water dispenser.

I am afraid that you do not make sense... going from there is a chemical in garlic that has properties that help fight cancer to a lot of garlic will cure cancer is a huge leap and not backed by any evidence or research. On the contrary, research does not back your idea.

Do you even know the mechanisms behind the cancer diseases? Do you look at the research being done and the results? There are many foods that prevent cancer, but eating them in any quantity does not mean that you will not get cancer - it only reduces the risks. And they are not universal either. They are specific to certain regions of the body. For instance, broccoli helps reduce chances of colon cancer by up to 50%.

Pushing garlic as a beneficial preventative for cancer - not a bad idea.
Pushing garlic as a cure for cancer - fallacious.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Misero on November 29, 2015, 03:37:01 PM
So, let me get this straight. You believe that cancer, a uncontrolled, rapidly dividing cell blob, is a defense mechanism? In what way could that help? Remember, tumors are solid.
And what specific compound will change this property of a cell? It has to be absorbed into the blood.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on December 13, 2015, 12:03:04 AM
I am afraid that you do not make sense... going from there is a chemical in garlic that has properties that help fight cancer to a lot of garlic will cure cancer is a huge leap and not backed by any evidence or research. On the contrary, research does not back your idea.

Source? A simple google search shows that there has been a lot of research showing that garlic kills cancer:

http://www.iol.co.za/lifestyle/garlic-kills-cancer-cells-uct-study-1.1887784

http://academicdepartments.musc.edu/pr/newscenter/2013/garlic.html#.VmyigPmDFBc

http://truedemocracyparty.net/2013/11/garlic-the-natural-cure-8-scientific-studies-that-prove-garlic-kills-cancer-dead-dead-dead/

http://www.wakingtimes.com/2014/01/06/garlic-kills-brain-cancer-cells-without-side-effects/

Quote
Do you even know the mechanisms behind the cancer diseases? Do you look at the research being done and the results? There are many foods that prevent cancer, but eating them in any quantity does not mean that you will not get cancer - it only reduces the risks. And they are not universal either. They are specific to certain regions of the body. For instance, broccoli helps reduce chances of colon cancer by up to 50%.

Pushing garlic as a beneficial preventative for cancer - not a bad idea.
Pushing garlic as a cure for cancer - fallacious.

Again, if a little garlic can kill cancer, why can't a lot of garlic cure cancer?
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on December 15, 2015, 02:40:23 PM

Again, if a little garlic can kill cancer, why can't a lot of garlic cure cancer?

A little salt is necessary for the body, but a lot of salt can harm the body so the physicians say.

It has not been shown that the people treated with garlic therapy have suffered harmful effects. Please cite a valid criticism.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Rama Set on December 15, 2015, 02:57:09 PM

Again, if a little garlic can kill cancer, why can't a lot of garlic cure cancer?

A little salt is necessary for the body, but a lot of salt can harm the body so the physicians say.

It has not been shown that the people treated with garlic therapy have suffered harmful effects. Please cite a valid criticism.

Nor have mega doses of garlic been shown to be beneficial.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: FEexperimenter on December 17, 2015, 04:06:59 PM
Cancer is a conspiracy, it doesn't even exist.  It's just an excuse for the government to kill off people who they don't like.  "Radiation" was made up during the nuclear scare scam and now they are using this imaginary stuff to cure an imaginary disease which is caused by basically everything including the same "radiation" used to attempt to cure it with widely varying results.  What a joke.

The real reason people die of "cancer" is the medications they are put on that makes your hair fall out.  That should be the #1 indication that the stuff is not good for you.  To get you to stop doing something all scientists have to do is say that it causes cancer and people will run off, and then since so many things cause cancer they can just pick anyone they want to kill and make the test come back positive so that person will slowly poison themselves with medication.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Misero on January 02, 2016, 03:32:47 PM
Here's a good way of finding out if a conspiracy is true. Let's do this one, shall we? "There is a supressed cure for cancer"
Do rich and famous people get affected by cancer? Yeah, Steve Jobs died of cancer, unless you want to deny that. So no, there is no suppressed cure for cancer.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Pete Svarrior on January 02, 2016, 07:12:57 PM
Here's a good way of finding out if a conspiracy is true. Let's do this one, shall we? "There is a supressed cure for cancer"
Do rich and famous people get affected by cancer? Yeah, Steve Jobs died of cancer, unless you want to deny that. So no, there is no suppressed cure for cancer.
Please substantiate your assumption that Steve Jobs must have necessarily been part of this supposed conspiracy.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Misero on January 02, 2016, 08:05:34 PM
He was one of the richest and most influential people of his time, and had enough money to pay for the cure. Not to mention that he tried using garlic himself, and died anyway.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Pete Svarrior on January 02, 2016, 08:22:56 PM
He was one of the richest and most influential people of his time, and had enough money to pay for the cure.
Please substantiate the following claims:
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 03, 2016, 02:14:23 AM
He was one of the richest and most influential people of his time, and had enough money to pay for the cure. Not to mention that he tried using garlic himself, and died anyway.

Actually sources say he used faith healers and fruit juices. It says nothing of garlic.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Ghost Spaghetti on January 05, 2016, 11:29:41 AM
As an aside, the rounds of chemotherapy she has been on have reduced my Nan's cancer count to the point where they can attempt an operation to remove it. To my understanding, the chemotherapy did not involve garlic.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Fortuna on January 10, 2016, 03:40:21 AM
I doubt garlic would cure any form of cancer, but it may help a little in preventing you from getting it in the first place.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: beardo on January 10, 2016, 05:26:39 PM
So, garlic flavoured potato chips prevents cancer.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: andruszkow on January 14, 2016, 04:32:29 PM
I doubt garlic would cure any form of cancer, but it may help a little in preventing you from getting it in the first place.
Probably not that either, no.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: junker on January 14, 2016, 04:37:56 PM

I doubt garlic would cure any form of cancer, but it may help a little in preventing you from getting it in the first place.
Probably not that either, no.

That is some top-quality refutation and evidence...
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: andruszkow on January 15, 2016, 03:21:17 PM

I doubt garlic would cure any form of cancer, but it may help a little in preventing you from getting it in the first place.
Probably not that either, no.

That is some top-quality refutation and evidence...
Indeed. It's probable that it won't, but it might.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: junker on January 15, 2016, 04:04:23 PM


I doubt garlic would cure any form of cancer, but it may help a little in preventing you from getting it in the first place.
Probably not that either, no.

That is some top-quality refutation and evidence...
Indeed. It's probable that it won't, but it might.

Do you have any evidence to support your outlandish claim?
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: andruszkow on January 15, 2016, 04:36:52 PM


I doubt garlic would cure any form of cancer, but it may help a little in preventing you from getting it in the first place.
Probably not that either, no.

That is some top-quality refutation and evidence...
Indeed. It's probable that it won't, but it might.

Do you have any evidence to support your outlandish claim?
Understand the meaning of probabilities. The claim was that garlic is a cure. Those claims need evidence. Since I didn't raise those claims, I don't need to supply anything
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: junker on January 15, 2016, 04:42:57 PM



I doubt garlic would cure any form of cancer, but it may help a little in preventing you from getting it in the first place.
Probably not that either, no.

That is some top-quality refutation and evidence...
Indeed. It's probable that it won't, but it might.

Do you have any evidence to support your outlandish claim?
Understand the meaning of probabilities. The claim was that garlic is a cure. Those claims need evidence. Since I didn't raise those claims, I don't need to supply anything

Tom Bishop provided his evidence in the OP. Whether you believe it or not is fine, but you did make a claim with nothing to support it. Since you seem to be using the colloquial term of "probably" synonymously with statistical probability, then can you show some evidence with statistically significant results on either premise? That would be the sound thing to do since we are now "understanding probabilities."
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Ayowindip on January 19, 2016, 01:16:41 AM
Yea. I am loving this website more and more. Awesome post!!!
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Rounder on January 24, 2016, 02:27:17 AM
Please substantiate the following claims:
  • Steve Jobs was influential.
  • The hypothetical cure can be bought with money.

Seriously?  You need substantiation that Steve Jobs was influential?  Don't half the people you know own an iPhone?
Seriously?  You need substantiation that the hypothetical cure (garlic, in this case) can be bought for money?  Go to Safeway, they sell it by the pound!
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Hoppy on February 04, 2016, 10:06:51 PM


I doubt garlic would cure any form of cancer, but it may help a little in preventing you from getting it in the first place.
Probably not that either, no.

That is some top-quality refutation and evidence...
Indeed. It's probable that it won't, but it might.

Do you have any evidence to support your outlandish claim?
Understand the meaning of probabilities. The claim was that garlic is a cure. Those claims need evidence. Since I didn't raise those claims, I don't need to supply anything
If mugsy eats garlic potatoe chip and doesn't have cancer, I'd say the claim is undeniable.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Round fact on April 25, 2016, 11:20:02 PM
Yeah because doctors, researchers, big phama, and the rest are more interested in the money, than the lives of their husbands, wives, children, grandparents, etc.
 
Leroy Jethro Gibbs head slap
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet on April 26, 2016, 02:42:56 PM

Yeah but if they, (and by definition their relatives) are the blood sucking illuminati vampires that rule the world, it’s in their best interests we don’t load up on the stuff in an attempt to prolong our miserable little lives, as a bulb a day diet would make our blood as venomous to them as it makes our breath poison to our loved ones and guarantees a wide berth in a lift (elevator/US).

Tom is a white witch, working against the forces of evil, cancer is the secondary issue here.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Pete Svarrior on May 01, 2016, 12:08:28 PM
Seriously?
Yes.

You need substantiation that Steve Jobs was influential?
Correct. Was something about my phrasing unclear?

Don't half the people you know own an iPhone?
Of course not, most people I know are technologically literate. Nonetheless, that has nothing to do with my question, so let's try to get back on track.

Seriously?
Yeah.

You need substantiation that the hypothetical cure (garlic, in this case) can be bought for money?
Almost, but you'd have to take away the strawman you've just built. I never suggested that the hypothetical cure is garlic. Please refrain from addressing my questions out of context (http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=3192.msg84237#msg84237).
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Setec Astronomy on May 02, 2016, 04:34:13 AM
How I Cured My Stage 4 Cancer In Two Weeks For Less Than The Cost Of A Night At The Movies (http://kelleyeidem.hubpages.com/hub/How-I-Cured-Stage-4-Cancer-in-Two-Weeks-For-Less-Than-The-Cost-Of-A-Night-At-The-Movies)
Quote
I didn't ... get sick to my stomach!
...
My treatment wasn't painful.
...
(1) Grate one habanero pepper each day, putting it on bread.
Something isn't adding up here....
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Username on May 26, 2016, 05:40:00 AM

In ancient times garlic was used as a treatment for cancer:



Throwing virgins into volcanoes was once popular.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on September 16, 2016, 03:20:39 AM

In ancient times garlic was used as a treatment for cancer:



Throwing virgins into volcanoes was once popular.

Actually, that's a myth:

http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/columns/straight-dope/article/13043717/straight-dope-were-virgins-ever-really-thrown-into-volcanoes

Quote
As with so many popular beliefs, the answer boils down to: (1) this story is mostly Hollywood BS, but (2) not 100 percent. To get a better handle on things, let’s look at different permutations of the concept, starting with the least plausible and working up.

Virgins have been thrown into volcanoes to appease god(s). This is the story in purest form—so pure, in fact, that I haven’t been able to find any actual examples of it. The closest I got was the 1932 film Bird of Paradise, starring Dolores del Rio as native girl Luana. Plotwise it breaks down as: Boy meets girl, boy hooks up with girl, girl is betrothed to someone else, boy steals girl, boy is cursed by volcano goddess Pele, girl sacrifices self to appease Pele and save boy. Long in the public domain, the film is available for free download and worth every penny.

I need to point out a couple things. First, while Luana’s primitive culture is willing to sacrifice her to placate the volcano god, it doesn’t actually do so. She sacrifices herself.

Second, volcanoes suitable for throwing women into for the most part don’t exist. The popular idea is that a volcanic cone has a lake of molten lava inside, perhaps with a rocky promontory jutting out from the rim to provide a convenient spot for victim-flinging. In reality, an erupting volcano typically spews lava up or outward from a cone, vent, or fissure, after which the lava flows laterally along the flattish surfaces nearby. One could, I suppose, shove a sacrificial individual into one of these flows and thereby incinerate her (or him), but that doesn’t constitute tossing a virgin into a volcano as the trope is usually understood.

Virgins have been sacrificed on, if not in, volcanoes. I’ll go out on a limb and say this is 100 percent true. The mummified remains of numerous murdered Incan children, many of them female, have been found on the upper slopes of volcanoes in the Andes. For example, a girl was discovered on Mount Ampato in Peru in 1995 and two girls and a boy on Llullaillaco in Argentina in 1999. The victims, aged six to adulthood, were well dressed and nourished, suggesting they’d been fattened for the slaughter. I don’t know if on examination any of the children were found to be virgins but will politely assume they were.

Archaeologist Johan Reinhard, who led the expeditions that found the Ampato and Llullaillaco mummies, has conjectured that sacrifices at Ampato were intended to stop a volcanic eruption nearby.

Humans, but especially children, have been sacrificed to the gods, or to accompany deceased rulers who presumably were going to join the gods. This is so abundantly and widely true that it may not seem worth mentioning, but we ought not to let our interest in a particularly baroque sacrificial mode blind us to the larger truth, namely that our species has slaughtered innocents by the uncountable thousands since antiquity, without even the excuse of war. Examples:

- In the Bible, Abraham famously comes close to sacrificing his son Isaac, and Jephthah actually does kill his daughter in return for winning a war.
- As part of the funeral rites of the Incan ruler Huayna Capac a thousand people were sacrificed, including many children.
- The sacrificial cenote, a big sinkhole at the Mayan city of Chichen Itza, was found to contain the skeletons of children mostly from 7 to 15 years old. It’s guessed that the victims were selected for their beauty and freedom from blemish.

Getting back to volcanoes:

- In Indonesian legend, a princess and her husband prayed to the god of the Mount Bromo volcano to give them children. The volcano delivered 25, but required the last be offered as a sacrifice. Today, villagers commemorate the event by throwing food, livestock, and money into the crater, which more practical types wait below the rim to catch.
- American writer Armstrong Perry claimed he witnessed the sacrifice of a young man thrown into a lava pit in the Solomon Islands, and says he narrowly escaped the same fate.
- Classical legend says the Greek philosopher Empedocles threw himself into Mount Etna as a sacrifice after healing a woman near death. Why? Who knows? We’ll file this one under “alcohol may have been involved.”
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Fortuna on November 23, 2016, 11:28:14 AM
I doubt garlic would cure any form of cancer, but it may help a little in preventing you from getting it in the first place.
Probably not that either, no.

Well, garlic is known to be a stimulant for the immune system. And cancerous cells are fought off by our immune systems, to a lesser or higher degree depending on the person. Immunotherapy for cancer is just now becoming a thing, so Tom may not be far off the mark. I would definitely not advise not going to the doctor, but loading your body up with healthy foods certainly wouldn't hurt.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: andruszkow on November 23, 2016, 03:39:12 PM
I doubt garlic would cure any form of cancer, but it may help a little in preventing you from getting it in the first place.
Probably not that either, no.

Well, garlic is known to be a stimulant for the immune system. And cancerous cells are fought off by our immune systems, to a lesser or higher degree depending on the person. Immunotherapy for cancer is just now becoming a thing, so Tom may not be far off the mark. I would definitely not advise not going to the doctor, but loading your body up with healthy foods certainly wouldn't hurt.
I agree, but that has nothing to do with garlic healing effects on cancer. It's a very general thing, eat healthy, stay healthy. Regardless, garlic is not a cure for cancer, and this anti-medicine propaganda is ridiculously apathic in nature.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Fortuna on November 23, 2016, 11:42:20 PM
I doubt garlic would cure any form of cancer, but it may help a little in preventing you from getting it in the first place.
Probably not that either, no.

Well, garlic is known to be a stimulant for the immune system. And cancerous cells are fought off by our immune systems, to a lesser or higher degree depending on the person. Immunotherapy for cancer is just now becoming a thing, so Tom may not be far off the mark. I would definitely not advise not going to the doctor, but loading your body up with healthy foods certainly wouldn't hurt.
I agree, but that has nothing to do with garlic healing effects on cancer. It's a very general thing, eat healthy, stay healthy. Regardless, garlic is not a cure for cancer, and this anti-medicine propaganda is ridiculously apathic in nature.

Do you have any evidence to support these outlandish claims?
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: andruszkow on November 24, 2016, 06:49:39 AM
I doubt garlic would cure any form of cancer, but it may help a little in preventing you from getting it in the first place.
Probably not that either, no.

Well, garlic is known to be a stimulant for the immune system. And cancerous cells are fought off by our immune systems, to a lesser or higher degree depending on the person. Immunotherapy for cancer is just now becoming a thing, so Tom may not be far off the mark. I would definitely not advise not going to the doctor, but loading your body up with healthy foods certainly wouldn't hurt.
I agree, but that has nothing to do with garlic healing effects on cancer. It's a very general thing, eat healthy, stay healthy. Regardless, garlic is not a cure for cancer, and this anti-medicine propaganda is ridiculously apathic in nature.

Do you have any evidence to support these outlandish claims?
I'm sorry, but is there a quick-insert button for that particular reply?
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet on November 24, 2016, 02:27:09 PM




Well, garlic is known to be a stimulant for the immune system. And cancerous cells are fought off by our immune systems, to a lesser or higher degree depending on the person.


Do you have any evidence to support these outlandish claims?
I'm sorry, but is there a quick-insert button for that particular reply?

Two things;
Garlic may give a boost to the immune system but the immune system is geared to recognise antigens from invaders (fungi, viruses, parasites etc.), cancer cells being rogue “you” cells are not as a rule recognised as the enemy, hence the problem, hence if that is what Garlic does, it would be ineffective.

As for the quick insert button, there must be one marked  “In case of tricky question”  which will give randomly either the one above, Irrelevant or “have you read the wiki” .
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on December 02, 2016, 01:04:28 AM
People who actually have cancer are sick for more reasons than what is caused by the physical presence of the tumor. People with cancer are very sick, in lots of different ways. Their immune system is compromised. The thing that is supposed to kill the cancer and keep you healthy is not working. There isn't anyone in prime health who happen to have these "mutated cells".

It is pretty simple to see that people with a healthy immune system would not get cancer, and natural medicines that improve the immune system can also reverse cancer.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: andruszkow on December 02, 2016, 07:43:51 AM



It is pretty simple to see that people with a healthy immune system would not get cancer, and natural medicines that improve the immune system can also reverse cancer.

[Citation needed]
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on December 06, 2016, 06:35:10 PM



It is pretty simple to see that people with a healthy immune system would not get cancer, and natural medicines that improve the immune system can also reverse cancer.

[Citation needed]

http://www.diagnose-me.com/symptoms-of/weakened-immune-system.php

Quote
Our immune system is how we fight off infections, germs and cancer.  Sometimes the immune system does not work properly, as with immunodeficiency disorders.  These people are extremely susceptible to infection and cancer.

Diagnosis is vital as impaired immune response can pose serious threats to health.  With the increasing resistance of pathogens to current antibiotics and anti-fungal medications, the impact of a weak immune system has taken on added significance.  Likewise, the daily immune challenges in the face of a more environmentally toxic world have intensified the need for maintaining optimal immune function.

The immune system is highly complex and important to our well-being.  A strong and balanced immune system is required for health maintenance.  Using natural agents, it is possible to help restore an immune system imbalance or weakness.

The immune system is composed of many interdependent cell types that collectively protect the body from bacterial, parasitic, fungal and viral infections, as well as from the growth of tumor cells.  Many of these cell types have specialized functions.  The cells of the immune system can engulf bacteria, kill parasites or tumor cells, or kill virus-infected cells.  These cells often depend on the T-helper subset for activation signals in the form of secretions formally known as cytokines, lymphokines, or more specifically interleukins.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Lord Dave on December 06, 2016, 06:43:03 PM
Only sometimes, Tom, will cancer get attacked by the immune system.  But if the cancer cells are similar enough to the original that they pass as "part of the body" then it won't be read as a foreign containment and thus not attacked.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on December 06, 2016, 07:25:25 PM
Only sometimes, Tom, will cancer get attacked by the immune system.  But if the cancer cells are similar enough to the original that they pass as "part of the body" then it won't be read as a foreign containment and thus not attacked.

That's called an immunodeficiency disorder, and is an immune system problem.

Everyone with cancer has a malfunctioning or compromised immune system. Everyone. Lethal cancers undetectable to the body would have been weeded out of life by natural processes of evolution eons before humans were human.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Lord Dave on December 06, 2016, 08:57:07 PM
Only sometimes, Tom, will cancer get attacked by the immune system.  But if the cancer cells are similar enough to the original that they pass as "part of the body" then it won't be read as a foreign containment and thus not attacked.

That's called an immunodeficiency disorder, and is an immune system problem.

Everyone with cancer has a malfunctioning or compromised immune system. Everyone. Lethal cancers undetectable to the body would have been weeded out of life by natural processes of evolution eons before humans were human.


O.o
So... I guess humans never have mutations or diseases that kill them cause evolution.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet on December 06, 2016, 09:06:45 PM
Only sometimes, Tom, will cancer get attacked by the immune system.  But if the cancer cells are similar enough to the original that they pass as "part of the body" then it won't be read as a foreign containment and thus not attacked.

That's called an immunodeficiency disorder, and is an immune system problem.

Everyone with cancer has a malfunctioning or compromised immune system. Everyone. Lethal cancers undetectable to the body would have been weeded out of life by natural processes of evolution eons before humans were human.

Not so Tom. Cancer with a few notable exeptions are late onset diseases,  the diseases of this type are not selected out as they typically appear after we have bred.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on December 07, 2016, 01:35:44 AM
Only sometimes, Tom, will cancer get attacked by the immune system.  But if the cancer cells are similar enough to the original that they pass as "part of the body" then it won't be read as a foreign containment and thus not attacked.

That's called an immunodeficiency disorder, and is an immune system problem.

Everyone with cancer has a malfunctioning or compromised immune system. Everyone. Lethal cancers undetectable to the body would have been weeded out of life by natural processes of evolution eons before humans were human.


O.o
So... I guess humans never have mutations or diseases that kill them cause evolution.

Before the advent of petrochemicals, there was very few mortal diseases. People were relatively healthy and a doctors could spend his entire career without seeing a cancer case. The types of diseases back then were typically non-fatal.

Not so Tom. Cancer with a few notable exeptions are late onset diseases,  the diseases of this type are not selected out as they typically appear after we have bred.

Men are fertile their entire lives. Why would evolution consider a 20 year old man any different than a 50 year old man when each of them have the potential to create life?

Cancer as a late onset disease can simply mean that our immune system breaks down and gets congested by our polluted environment over time, and is eventually compromised.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Boots on December 07, 2016, 02:33:03 AM

Before the advent of petrochemicals, there was very few mortal diseases. People were relatively healthy and a doctors could spend his entire career without seeing a cancer case. The types of diseases back then were typically non-fatal.

Hmm. You seem to have a completely different version of history. The implication that cancer is a relatively recent disease is something I believe is probably true. The rest of your statement is nonsense. IMHO.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Rama Set on December 07, 2016, 03:16:43 AM

Before the advent of petrochemicals, there was very few mortal diseases. People were relatively healthy and a doctors could spend his entire career without seeing a cancer case. The types of diseases back then were typically non-fatal.

Hmm. You seem to have a completely different version of history. The implication that cancer is a relatively recent disease is something I believe is probably true. The rest of your statement is nonsense. IMHO.

There are Ancient Egyptian Papyri that describe procedures for dealing with breast tumors.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet on December 07, 2016, 08:43:04 AM


Men are fertile their entire lives. Why would evolution consider a 20 year old man any different than a 50 year old man when each of them have the potential to create life?



Missing the point Tom!
Evolution isn't a quango that decides, it's a mechanism that works through simple rules, your genes get passed on through your offspring, if something kills you before you either have children or before those children are old enough to fend for themselves, then it simply isn't passed on to another generation. The moment you have a child that survives you, whatever genes you have good or bad get back into the pool. That is why you degenerate/are not perfect, that is why fast breeding organisms are not long lived, it's simple Tom.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on December 07, 2016, 01:04:08 PM

Before the advent of petrochemicals, there was very few mortal diseases. People were relatively healthy and a doctors could spend his entire career without seeing a cancer case. The types of diseases back then were typically non-fatal.

Hmm. You seem to have a completely different version of history. The implication that cancer is a relatively recent disease is something I believe is probably true. The rest of your statement is nonsense. IMHO.

People had much healthier immune systems before the advent of petrochemicals (which are in everything from cosmetics, to food, to the air itself). Unless they were working in a mine or something, people didn't get diseases like cancer or leukemia. Those diseases are the last stage of a compromised immune system.

There weren't diseases like AIDS that went around killing people en masse. AIDS is relatively recent and affects people with comprimised immune systems. Consider that after being infected with HIV the AIDS disease does not manifest until the immune system has been degraded to a certain point:

http://www.everydayhealth.com/hiv-aids/can-you-prevent-aids-when-you-have-hiv.aspx

Quote
Without treatment, around 50 percent of all HIV-positive individuals typically develop AIDS within 10 years. About 75 percent of people with HIV develop AIDS within 15 years. But about 10 percent of HIV-positive individuals are considered "long survivors," which means that their infection is stable and that their immune function hasn't steadily declined.

Having a good immune system (10 percent of the today's population in today's dirty environment) means that you don't get AIDS. You may carry HIV, sure, but you also carry antibodies and little pieces of the countless diseases your immune system has also defeated and suppressed.

Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on December 07, 2016, 01:12:27 PM
The fact that 10 percent of people who contract HIV don't get AIDS basically demonstrates the all-powerful nature of the immune system.

After billions of years of evolution and uncountable virus generations, often measured in minutes, don't you think that the body should know by now what a virus is? Does it not follow that all of the possible tricks have been played out by now?

Viruses evolved together with life. There are only so many chemicals and tactics a sneaky virus can use. Life sees it and defeats it and creates a genetic memory. It's pretty unlikely that after a virus can overwhelm a healthy immune system.

Even Ebola only has a mortality rate of 50% (on average). Ebola! How can this be? Do these African doctors have some kind of advanced medicine that we don't know about? No. It was defeated by the immune system. The people in Africa are around less modernalities and have healthier immune systems than we do. The mortality rate is lower in modernized countries like Liberia and Nigeria and higher in less modernized countries like Ginuea. Take away Africa's pesticides and cosmetics and air pollution and it is clear that the survival rate would shoot way, way up.

So you tell me, if the health of the immune system has nothing to do with diseases like Ebola, why are there so many survivors?
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Rama Set on December 07, 2016, 02:28:55 PM
The fact that 10 percent of people who contract HIV don't get AIDS basically demonstrates the all-powerful nature of the immune system.

The immune system is impressive, but this is a taaaaad hyperbolic.

Quote
After billions of years of evolution and uncountable virus generations, often measured in minutes, don't you think that the body should know by now what a virus is? Does it not follow that all of the possible tricks have been played out by now?

No it doesn't. Knowing what a virus is and combatting it are two different things. Viruses also evolve and grow more resilient or subtle, they change tactics, etc...

Quote
Viruses evolved together with life. There are only so many chemicals and tactics a sneaky virus can use. Life sees it and defeats it and creates a genetic memory. It's pretty unlikely that after a virus can overwhelm a healthy immune system.

Malaria has been killing people for thousands of years without any prevalent immunity arising. There was no immunity before the industrial revolution and mortality rates have only gone down with the advent of modern medicine. Ditto for small pox, polio, etc...

The human body has neither infinite capacity nor resources. You must admit that there is an upper limit to its capacity to fight off invaders and if there is then there is something that conceivably could exploit this.

Quote
Even Ebola only has a mortality rate of 50% (on average). Ebola! How can this be? Do these African doctors have some kind of advanced medicine that we don't know about? No. It was defeated by the immune system. The people in Africa are around less modernalities and have healthier immune systems than we do. The mortality rate is lower in modernized countries like Liberia and Nigeria and higher in less modernized countries like Ginuea. Take away Africa's pesticides and cosmetics and air pollution and it is clear that the survival rate would shoot way, way up.

This is not in dispute, but it does not follow then that a country that has modern medicine and sanitation and also somehow completely eliminates pollution will not have disease.

Quote
So you tell me, if the health of the immune system has nothing to do with diseases like Ebola, why are there so many survivors?

Has anyone claimed this?
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on December 07, 2016, 04:49:11 PM
Actually Malaria, mainly affects children:

http://www.who.int/malaria/areas/high_risk_groups/children/en/

Quote
Children under 5 years of age are one of most vulnerable groups affected by malaria. There were an estimated 438 000 malaria deaths around the world in 2015, of which approximately 69% were in children under 5 years of age.

Why is this so? Shouldn't malaria affect everyone if this virus really knows how to kill people, healthy immune system or not? This is pretty perplexing if your theory is correct.

The answer is simply because adults have stronger and healthier immune systems than children under 5.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Rama Set on December 07, 2016, 05:11:12 PM
Actually Malaria, mainly affects children:

http://www.who.int/malaria/areas/high_risk_groups/children/en/

Quote
Children under 5 years of age are one of most vulnerable groups affected by malaria. There were an estimated 438 000 malaria deaths around the world in 2015, of which approximately 69% were in children under 5 years of age.

Why is this so?

Because their immune system is immature.

Quote
Shouldn't malaria affect everyone if this virus really knows how to kill people, healthy immune system or not? This is pretty perplexing if your theory is correct.

No, because killing people is not what a virus is setting out to do.  It is setting out to reproduce.  Death is merely a by-product of viral reproduction.

Quote
The answer is simply because adults have stronger and healthier immune systems than children under 5.

Obviously.  Again, no one has claimed otherwise.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on December 07, 2016, 07:43:10 PM
You just told me that "Malaria has been killing people for thousands of years without any prevalent immunity arising." I showed that there are people who are immune to Malaria. They are called adults with healthy immune systems.

Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Rama Set on December 07, 2016, 07:59:55 PM
You just told me that "Malaria has been killing people for thousands of years without any prevalent immunity arising." I showed that there are people who are immune to Malaria. They are called adults with healthy immune systems.

I did say prevalent didn't I?  It is still a disease that is deadly... as diseases go, it is very deadly.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on December 07, 2016, 11:10:13 PM
You just told me that "Malaria has been killing people for thousands of years without any prevalent immunity arising." I showed that there are people who are immune to Malaria. They are called adults with healthy immune systems.

I did say prevalent didn't I?  It is still a disease that is deadly... as diseases go, it is very deadly.

Sure, diseases are deadly only if you don't have the proper immune system to deal with it. Like, say, children under 5, the elderly, chain smokers, and people who have been around too many petrochemicals.

If you have a great healthy immune system you are invulnerable to any disease.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: TotesNotReptilian on December 08, 2016, 12:16:27 AM
Lol. This thread is a gold mine of hilarious logic.

If you have a great healthy immune system you are invulnerable to any disease.

Absolutely! Assuming you define a "great healthy immune system" as one that makes you invulnerable to any disease. The problem is, does such an immune system exist? Is there reliable documentation of anyone in the entire history of humankind that was invulnerable to every disease?
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet on December 08, 2016, 08:40:36 AM
No, it's golden age, mystical, quasi religious bullshit. At no time in the history of mankind or any other animal for that matter has the perfect time ever existed. As hunter gatherers we were prey to the seasons, random natural disasters, microbes, virus and disease.
As our bodies immune system, hampered by all the other expenditures on its resources (fighting each other, running away from big shit, keeping warm/dry etc.) is still a wonder of nature, so are all the organisms evolution throws up to exploit the reserves of energy and supplies that are us. We hold no special place in this system.
No one is arguing that a healthier non polluted existence is not a boon to our chance of survival, but complete invulnerability is bollocks.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Pete Svarrior on December 08, 2016, 11:31:03 AM
Is there reliable documentation of anyone in the entire history of humankind that was invulnerable to every disease?
At least temporarily, yes
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Boots on December 08, 2016, 12:46:26 PM
Is there reliable documentation of anyone in the entire history of humankind that was invulnerable to every disease?
At least temporarily, yes

Do you have evidence for that outlandish claim?
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Pete Svarrior on December 08, 2016, 01:28:39 PM
Do you have evidence for that outlandish claim?
No, patients' medical records tend to be confidential. However, you can likely obtain evidence which you'll consider credible yourself. Ask your family and friends if they've ever seen a doctor for a regular check-up, and were found to be in good health. While I can't make any guarantees, it is highly likely you'll find at least one such person.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Boots on December 08, 2016, 01:49:05 PM
Do you have evidence for that outlandish claim?
No, patients' medical records tend to be confidential. However, you can likely obtain evidence which you'll consider credible yourself. Ask your family and friends if they've ever seen a doctor for a regular check-up, and were found to be in good health. While I can't make any guarantees, it is highly likely you'll find at least one such person.

So no evidence of of anyone in the entire history of humankind that was/is invulnerable to every disease then? Got it.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Pete Svarrior on December 08, 2016, 02:02:56 PM
So no evidence of of anyone in the entire history of humankind that was/is invulnerable to every disease then?
Quite the contrary, I've provided you with the necessary steps to reproduce. Whether or not you choose to pursue them is your prerogative.

I could tell you that I know healthy people, even that I am one, but why bother when you can obtain much stronger evidence through virtually no effort?

Got it.
Clearly not.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet on December 08, 2016, 02:10:57 PM
Is there reliable documentation of anyone in the entire history of humankind that was invulnerable to every disease?
At least temporarily, yes



No!
Not getting ill is a long way from being "invulnerable to every disease" as nobody has ever been subjected to every disease.

I haven't been ill for years, but I haven't been in contact with HIV, Ebola, the Plague....
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Pete Svarrior on December 08, 2016, 02:18:57 PM
nobody has ever been subjected to every disease.
How does that preclude one from invulnerability? If anything, that makes it easier, not harder.

I haven't been ill for years, but I haven't been in contact with HIV, Ebola, the Plague....
Thank you for contributing to the pool of evidence :)
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet on December 08, 2016, 02:25:23 PM
nobody has ever been subjected to every disease.
How does that preclude one from invulnerability? If anything, that makes it easier, not harder.

I haven't been ill for years, but I haven't been in contact with HIV, Ebola, the Plague....
Thank you for contributing to the pool of evidence :)

How does it prove invulnerability, any more than because I haven’t been killed by lightning, I say I am immune to electricity? A stupid argument.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Pete Svarrior on December 08, 2016, 02:27:00 PM
How does it prove invulnerability, any more than because I haven’t been killed by lightning, I say I am immune to electricity? A stupid argument.
Whoah there, pardner. You're conflating two very different concepts.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet on December 08, 2016, 02:33:33 PM

You are feeling protective to Tom. Nice.

http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=5487.msg106775#msg106775
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Boots on December 08, 2016, 04:49:14 PM
So no evidence of of anyone in the entire history of humankind that was/is invulnerable to every disease then?
Quite the contrary, I've provided you with the necessary steps to reproduce. Whether or not you choose to pursue them is your prerogative.

I could tell you that I know healthy people, even that I am one, but why bother when you can obtain much stronger evidence through virtually no effort?

Got it.
Clearly not.

I seriously do question your ability to understand logic but even you must realize how stupid your argument is. Did you know that I am invulnerable to being run over by a bus? At least temporarily. As proof I offer my medical records. Perfect health. No broken bones, no internal bleeding. Nothing.

To say that you've provided evidence of "anyone in the entire history of humankind that was/is invulnerable to every disease, at least temporarily", by offering that I should find someone in good health and ask them to show me their medical records is  clearly not a valid claim.

Clearly!
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet on December 08, 2016, 04:56:04 PM

The eggs Boots, don't forget the eggs.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Boots on December 08, 2016, 04:59:22 PM

The eggs Boots, don't forget the eggs.

LOL. Touché!
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on December 08, 2016, 07:26:41 PM
The diseases we have so far discussed have a subset of people whose immune system was strong enough to fight off the disease. This is what my comment was based on. The burden has shifted to you guys to now show that there are diseases that can defeat a strong and healthy immune system.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Boots on December 08, 2016, 07:28:48 PM
LWDS
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Pete Svarrior on December 08, 2016, 08:56:39 PM
I seriously do question your ability to understand logic
What an excellent way to start an argument. You must be an expert debater.

Did you know that I am invulnerable to being run over by a bus? At least temporarily.
Yes, I could believe that. It's not unlikely that you live in a high-rise flat, or in an area that's not serviced by buses; in either case the probability of you being harmed by a bus while at home can be considered to be 0 for all practical purposes.

As proof I offer my medical records. Perfect health. No broken bones, no internal bleeding. Nothing.
No need, I believe you; although medical records would be completely irrelevant here. You probably also don't have your medical records, but that's more to point out your lack of knowledge than your logical failures.

To say that you've provided evidence of "anyone in the entire history of humankind that was/is invulnerable to every disease, at least temporarily", by offering that I should find someone in good health and ask them to show me their medical records is  clearly not a valid claim.

Clearly!
Ah, yes. This is not the case because it's clearly not the case. Such an impressive position.

I also never suggested that you should ask anyone to show you their medical records. That would be silly.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Rama Set on December 08, 2016, 09:39:40 PM
The diseases we have so far discussed have a subset of people whose immune system was strong enough to fight off the disease. This is what my comment was based on. The burden has shifted to you guys to now show that there are diseases that can defeat a strong and healthy immune system.

How are you defining a "strong and healthy immune system".  If you can say something other than "an immune system capable of fighting off any disease" we can actually talk about this point.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on December 08, 2016, 09:42:17 PM
The diseases we have so far discussed have a subset of people whose immune system was strong enough to fight off the disease. This is what my comment was based on. The burden has shifted to you guys to now show that there are diseases that can defeat a strong and healthy immune system.

How are you defining a "strong and healthy immune system".  If you can say something other than "an immune system capable of fighting off any disease" we can actually talk about this point.

If there are diseases that can overwhelm any immune system, then you should be able to point me to a disease with a 100% mortality rate.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: TotesNotReptilian on December 08, 2016, 09:46:16 PM
The diseases we have so far discussed have a subset of people whose immune system was strong enough to fight off the disease. This is what my comment was based on. The burden has shifted to you guys to now show that there are diseases that can defeat a strong and healthy immune system.

How are you defining a "strong and healthy immune system".  If you can say something other than "an immune system capable of fighting off any disease" we can actually talk about this point.

If there are diseases that can overwhelm any immune system, then you should be able to point me to a disease with a 100% mortality rate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_human_disease_case_fatality_rates (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_human_disease_case_fatality_rates)

100% - Prion diseases, or transmissible spongiform encephalopathies (TSE): Includes Creutzfeldt–Jakob disease and all its variants, fatal familial insomnia, kuru, and Gerstmann–Sträussler–Scheinker syndrome.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet on December 08, 2016, 09:46:52 PM
The diseases we have so far discussed have a subset of people whose immune system was strong enough to fight off the disease. This is what my comment was based on. The burden has shifted to you guys to now show that there are diseases that can defeat a strong and healthy immune system.

An impossible request as you know, however the western aid workers who went to Africa (in Guinea, Sierra Leone and Liberia) to help out during the ebola crisis were screened and deemed to be healthy, inspite of this they were instructed to go through strict hygene protocols and decontamination procedures because the medical experts were keenly aware that their immune systems would not be
able to fight off a virulent virus that it had not encountered before, born out when those procedures failed in a few cases. the human race is almost infinitely diverse (at the genetic level) however and some with particular versions of  a gene called human leukocyte antigen-B, specifically  B*07 and B*14, were more likely to survive Ebola, while people with other versions, called B*67 and B*15, were more likely to die. Further to that,  some people may be resistant to Ebola infection entirely, if they have a mutation in a gene called NPC1 (about 1 in 400 in Europeans). Now you will probably say this proves your point but it doesn't, those  B*67 and B*15 antigens probably are geared to another type of infection as there are often trade offs such as those who have sickle cell trait have resistance to the parasite that produces malaria. The point being diversity in population is what defeats epidemics not some mythical perfect immune system that has never existed.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Rama Set on December 08, 2016, 09:50:21 PM

If there are diseases that can overwhelm any immune system, then you should be able to point me to a disease with a 100% mortality rate.

Why does it matter if there is a disease with a 100% mortality rate anyway?  What if you have someone who survives prostate cancer but dies of the flu?  Was their immune system compromised?  Or was it very strong against one type of disease but not as good against another?  There is variation in every characteristic of human beings and I do not know why the immune system should be any different.  Ultimately, until you can tell me what you mean by a healthy immune system, I am not even sure I know what you are talking about.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Lord Dave on December 13, 2016, 01:23:08 PM
Tom's logic is, of course, actually correct.

His argument is that if your immune system is strong enough (strong being far more complex than just energy or white blood cell count) then it can defend against any disease.

HOWEVER

Human immune systems are not and can not be strong enough.  The Human immune system works on various principals of biology, protein chains, and a lot of stuff I don't understand.  It is finite in it's ability to produce antibodies and it can only produce antibodies for things it recognizes as a foreign containment. 
Here's a good article on how pathogens avoid being destroyed.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK27176/

Now, if you have an immune system that's somehow evolved to not be susceptible to any of these tricks, you're immune to disease.  But human immune systems are not like that.  A few are immune to AIDs due to a missing protein that HIV needs to attach and infect a t-cell.
http://www.hivplusmag.com/research-breakthroughs/2016/3/23/anyone-immune-hiv
This isn't a strong immune system, just a different one. 


Also, Rabies apparently has about a 100% mortality rate.  Plague too.

Also, isn't Ebola at 85-90%?  Where's the 50% figure?


Anyway, diseases usually kill when whatever they do is done faster than the body can remove them.  And so far, the addition of medical science has not shown any increase in mortality rates.  Quite the opposite, really.  Before modern medicine, death by disease was far more likely.  The human immune system can only do so much.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Rama Set on December 13, 2016, 02:37:30 PM
Tom's logic is, of course, actually correct.

His argument is that if your immune system is strong enough (strong being far more complex than just energy or white blood cell count) then it can defend against any disease.

This is a metaphysical truth but it has no basis in reality.  Since we are talking about reality his metaphysical argument is irrelevant other than to possibly uncover a more effective philosophy in developing treatment.


Quote
Also, isn't Ebola at 85-90%?  Where's the 50% figure?

Ebola Zaire had a mortality rate that high, but that likely had to do with the treatment conditions during the outbreak as much as the strength of the virus.  Flu would also be extremely deadly in countries with no effective way to combat it like the Spanish Influenza of 1919 that killed more people than WW1 had in the previous 4 years.  As much as people love to rail against western medicine, they forget all of the strides it made.  I definitely think a holisitic philosophy augmented by strong evidence-based research is the future of medicine.  Doctors should be more focused on preparing people to fight off infection and disease rather than being there when something goes wrong.  Lets educate people about the dangers of shit diets, lack of exercise, lack of community, managing stress poorly, etc... so that every person is in a position to function somewhere approaching their optimal level.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: trekky0623 on December 13, 2016, 02:47:46 PM
Quote
His argument is that if your immune system is strong enough (strong being far more complex than just energy or white blood cell count) then it can defend against any disease.

This is like saying if we had a perfect world, then there would be no disease. It is a tautology without any substance.

If you had a perfect immune system that could defend against every disease, then you would be able to defend against every disease. No shit. But the real world doesn't work that way. And in regards to cancer, your body can suppress cancer cells 99% of times without you even noticing, but it only takes that 1% of the time where it fails for you to become seriously ill.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Lord Dave on December 13, 2016, 03:29:01 PM
Tom's logic is, of course, actually correct.

His argument is that if your immune system is strong enough (strong being far more complex than just energy or white blood cell count) then it can defend against any disease.

This is a metaphysical truth but it has no basis in reality.  Since we are talking about reality his metaphysical argument is irrelevant other than to possibly uncover a more effective philosophy in developing treatment.


Quote
His argument is that if your immune system is strong enough (strong being far more complex than just energy or white blood cell count) then it can defend against any disease.

This is like saying if we had a perfect world, then there would be no disease. It is a tautology without any substance.

If you had a perfect immune system that could defend against every disease, then you would be able to defend against every disease. No shit. But the real world doesn't work that way. And in regards to cancer, your body can suppress cancer cells 99% of times without you even noticing, but it only takes that 1% of the time where it fails for you to become seriously ill.

Yes.  It's logical, but what is logical isn't always reality.
I'm sure Tom himself would even say that his immune system is not strong enough to survive most diseases with a mortality rate above 80% and I'm willing to bet he would not intentionally infect himself with one just to prove it.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: trekky0623 on December 13, 2016, 04:51:31 PM
That very specific part of his argument may be logical, if uselessly vague, but his original post that supposes that garlic can cure your malignant cancer is off-the-wall bonkers.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Lord Dave on December 13, 2016, 05:46:27 PM
That very specific part of his argument may be logical, if uselessly vague, but his original post that supposes that garlic can cure your malignant cancer is off-the-wall bonkers.
Well yes, that goes without saying.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on December 24, 2016, 04:45:51 AM
The diseases we have so far discussed have a subset of people whose immune system was strong enough to fight off the disease. This is what my comment was based on. The burden has shifted to you guys to now show that there are diseases that can defeat a strong and healthy immune system.

How are you defining a "strong and healthy immune system".  If you can say something other than "an immune system capable of fighting off any disease" we can actually talk about this point.

If there are diseases that can overwhelm any immune system, then you should be able to point me to a disease with a 100% mortality rate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_human_disease_case_fatality_rates (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_human_disease_case_fatality_rates)

100% - Prion diseases, or transmissible spongiform encephalopathies (TSE): Includes Creutzfeldt–Jakob disease and all its variants, fatal familial insomnia, kuru, and Gerstmann–Sträussler–Scheinker syndrome.

Creutzfeldt–Jakob disease is one of those "you are already dying" diseases. It mostly affects older people:

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/185884.php

Quote
Causes can be sporadic, inherited, or acquired. It mostly affects people over the age of 60 years, and it is rare in people under 30 years old.

It's not like Ebola which everyone can get. It's one of the diseases that is susceptible to after their body is already breaking down. Otherwise the sentence above would say "it affects all ages."

The articles for those disease say "once diagnosed the disease is 100% fatal". This is quite different than it being fatal to everyone who is in contact with it. The body of a healthy immune system eliminates it immediately, and the condition is not "diagnosed."

That very specific part of his argument may be logical, if uselessly vague, but his original post that supposes that garlic can cure your malignant cancer is off-the-wall bonkers.

How, exactly, is it off the wall bonkers when there are a number of university studies saying that garlic and peppers kill cancer?
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Woody on December 24, 2016, 06:54:07 AM
That very specific part of his argument may be logical, if uselessly vague, but his original post that supposes that garlic can cure your malignant cancer is off-the-wall bonkers.

How, exactly, is it off the wall bonkers when there are a number of university studies saying that garlic and peppers kill cancer?

I think it was your claim it cures cancer.

I would research the author.  Like how HE decided he had stage 4 cancer and the description he gave.  This is not someone else saying it, it was his claim he diagnosed himself of having stage 4 cancer. I will leave it to you to decide if his description matches stage 4 cancer.

What is known about garlic is it seems to reduce the risk of cancer, that when compounds making up garlic are added in vitro it arrest development and even kills the cells.  However that does not mean it can cure cancer in vivo.

There has yet been a cure discovered using garlic. As of now it shows only being successful in reducing the risk of getting cancer in the first place.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on December 28, 2016, 01:30:01 AM
Are you aware that doctors no longer prescribe herbal medicines for ailments, despite many herbal concoctions being a known cure to many ailments for hundreds of years? Why is that?
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: garygreen on December 28, 2016, 02:44:30 AM
Are you aware that doctors no longer prescribe herbal medicines for ailments, despite many herbal concoctions being a known cure to many ailments for hundreds of years? Why is that?

are you aware that doctors no longer prescribe prayer for ailments, despite many psalms being a known cure to many ailments for hundreds of years?  why is that?
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on December 28, 2016, 06:13:18 PM
are you aware that doctors no longer prescribe prayer for ailments, despite many psalms being a known cure to many ailments for hundreds of years?  why is that?

You apparently have never been to one of the thousands of Catholic hospitals. The MDs there do recommend prayer. There is ample evidence through numerous studies (http://www.nwitimes.com/business/healthcare/can-happiness-heal-how-a-positive-attitude-might-save-your/article_bdda1397-b49f-5347-9e4b-825770d3e819.html) that positive mood and happy outlook can boost the immune system and help someone get over a stressful ailment.

Why would millions of people do something for hundreds of years if no one ever received any kind of benefit from it?

Herbal and natural medicines have been the primary mode of medicine in China for thousands of years, and Traditional Chinese Medicine is still the preferred choice when illness occurs. Its practitioners claim to have cured countless people. Is the entire medical profession in China lying? You are going to have to explain what is happening there.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: TotesNotReptilian on December 28, 2016, 06:35:47 PM
Are you aware that doctors no longer prescribe herbal medicines for ailments, despite many herbal concoctions being a known cure to many ailments for hundreds of years? Why is that?

1. Not regulated by the FDA
2. Lack of proven efficacy
3. Lack of rigorous clinical trials
4. Lack of precise dosage control
5. And yes... possibly lack of money to be made off it

Regardless of the reasons, it is not evidence that garlic cures cancer. It's barely even related. Your logic is bewildering... doctors avoid prescribing herbal remedies, therefore garlic cures cancer??

Herbal and natural medicines have been the primary mode of medicine in China for thousands of years, and Traditional Chinese Medicine is still the preferred choice when illness occurs. Its practitioners claim to have cured countless people. Is the entire medical profession in China lying? You are going to have to explain what is happening there.

Stop trying to shift the premise of your argument. No one is arguing that all herbal medicine is completely ineffective. Just because SOME herbal medicine is somewhat effective, doesn't prove garlic cures cancer.

That being said, traditional Chinese medicine is absolutely riddled with scams. Especially if it is marketed at foreigners.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: garygreen on December 28, 2016, 06:41:28 PM
You apparently have never been to one of the thousands of Catholic hospitals. The MDs there do recommend prayer. There is ample evidence through numerous studies (http://www.nwitimes.com/business/healthcare/can-happiness-heal-how-a-positive-attitude-might-save-your/article_bdda1397-b49f-5347-9e4b-825770d3e819.html) that positive mood and happy outlook can boost the immune system and help someone get over a stressful ailment.

i completely agree.   curing cancer is trivial.  one merely needs to consult god, who has already provided everything we need for our survival.  your link proves that prayer cures cancer.

there are certain people in the world who will tell you that cancer is terrible and impossible to cure without spending money on herbs, vitamin regimens, and other 'nautral' remedies they sell.  i am here to tell you that this is false.  one does not need to consult an industry which profiteers off the backs of the dying.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on December 28, 2016, 07:35:03 PM
Are you aware that doctors no longer prescribe herbal medicines for ailments, despite many herbal concoctions being a known cure to many ailments for hundreds of years? Why is that?

1. Not regulated by the FDA
2. Lack of proven efficacy
3. Lack of rigorous clinical trials
4. Lack of precise dosage control
5. And yes... possibly lack of money to be made off it

Regardless of the reasons, it is not evidence that garlic cures cancer. It's barely even related. Your logic is bewildering... doctors avoid prescribing herbal remedies, therefore garlic cures cancer??

Herbal and natural medicines have been the primary mode of medicine in China for thousands of years, and Traditional Chinese Medicine is still the preferred choice when illness occurs. Its practitioners claim to have cured countless people. Is the entire medical profession in China lying? You are going to have to explain what is happening there.

Stop trying to shift the premise of your argument. No one is arguing that all herbal medicine is completely ineffective. Just because SOME herbal medicine is somewhat effective, doesn't prove garlic cures cancer.

That being said, traditional Chinese medicine is absolutely riddled with scams. Especially if it is marketed at foreigners.

If you agree that it is possible for herbal medicines to cure disease, then you open up the possibility of garlic curing cancer. I don't see what is so outrageous about the subject. There are a lot of people who claim that various plants and herbs cured their cancer.

The drug companies aren't going to spend $10 Million to put garlic through Phase 4 clinical trials for FDA approval because garlic can't be patented and sold for outrageous prices. How are they supposed to make that money back?

Water wasn't ever put through Phase 4 FDA approval for dehydration and dehydration related diseases. Are we to assume that water is a non-effective substance for dehydration? Is it so impossible to figure out how to use water to cure dehydration without a pharmacist to tell you what dosage to take?

Natural medicines CAN cure, and you cannot rely on FDA approval to tell you that. Anyone who relies on FDA approval is pretty stupid to think that FDA approval is needed to be a legitimate medicine. There is ample evidence of the potency of herbal medicines. There are thousands of years of human experiments which have created the current natural medicine fields.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Lord Dave on December 28, 2016, 07:40:24 PM
Why would millions of people do something for hundreds of years if no one ever received any kind of benefit from it?
Are you seriously using an ad populum?Also... burying the dead in monuments.  No benefit what so ever yet we still do it.
Living in harsh environments.


Are you aware that doctors no longer prescribe herbal medicines for ailments, despite many herbal concoctions being a known cure to many ailments for hundreds of years? Why is that?

1. Not regulated by the FDA
2. Lack of proven efficacy
3. Lack of rigorous clinical trials
4. Lack of precise dosage control
5. And yes... possibly lack of money to be made off it

Regardless of the reasons, it is not evidence that garlic cures cancer. It's barely even related. Your logic is bewildering... doctors avoid prescribing herbal remedies, therefore garlic cures cancer??

Herbal and natural medicines have been the primary mode of medicine in China for thousands of years, and Traditional Chinese Medicine is still the preferred choice when illness occurs. Its practitioners claim to have cured countless people. Is the entire medical profession in China lying? You are going to have to explain what is happening there.

Stop trying to shift the premise of your argument. No one is arguing that all herbal medicine is completely ineffective. Just because SOME herbal medicine is somewhat effective, doesn't prove garlic cures cancer.

That being said, traditional Chinese medicine is absolutely riddled with scams. Especially if it is marketed at foreigners.

If you agree that it is possible for herbal medicines to cure disease, then you open up the possibility of garlic curing cancer. I don't see what is so outrageous about the subject. There are a lot of people who claim that various plants and herbs cured their cancer.

The drug companies aren't going to spend $10 Million to put garlic through Phase 4 clinical trials for FDA approval because garlic can't be patented and sold for outrageous prices. How are they supposed to make that money back?

Water wasn't ever put through Phase 4 FDA approval for dehydration and dehydration related diseases. Are we to assume that water is an effectiveness substance?

Is it so impossible to figure out how to use water to cure dehydration if there are no large dosage control studies on the subject?

Natural medicines CAN cure, and you cannot rely on FDA approval to tell you that. Anyone who relies on FDA approval is pretty stupid to think that FDA approval is needed to be a legitimate medicine. There is ample evidence of the potency of herbal medicines. There are thousands of years of human experiments which have created the current natural medicine fields.
Then our course is clear.
Tom, you need to get cancer so we can cure you with garlic.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on December 28, 2016, 07:51:08 PM

i completely agree.   curing cancer is trivial.  one merely needs to consult god, who has already provided everything we need for our survival.  your link proves that prayer cures cancer.

there are certain people in the world who will tell you that cancer is terrible and impossible to cure without spending money on herbs, vitamin regimens, and other 'nautral' remedies they sell.  i am here to tell you that this is false.  one does not need to consult an industry which profiteers off the backs of the dying.

Prayer probably does help people with Cancer to some degree. But you really need a reality check if you think that is all they do at Catholic hospitals.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: TotesNotReptilian on December 28, 2016, 07:58:18 PM
If you agree that it is possible for herbal medicines to cure disease, then you open up the possibility of garlic curing cancer.

Of course it's possible. That doesn't mean it is true, or even likely. It is also possible that storing ants in your bellybutton cures baldness, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it.

Quote
Natural medicines CAN cure, and you cannot rely on FDA approval to tell you that.

Great. We agree on this. How does this prove that garlic, specifically, cures cancer?
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on December 28, 2016, 08:01:29 PM
Why would millions of people do something for hundreds of years if no one ever received any kind of benefit from it?
Are you seriously using an ad populum?Also... burying the dead in monuments.  No benefit what so ever yet we still do it.
Living in harsh environments.

First off, people do receive benefit from burying their dead in monuments. Your counterargument is weak.

Secondly, It's not an ad populum argument. The argument is not based on nothing more than belief. I am referencing the thousands of years of human experiments which have molded the current natural medicine fields. It is an empirical argument that natural medicines have cured the things they claim to cure.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on December 28, 2016, 08:16:56 PM
If you agree that it is possible for herbal medicines to cure disease, then you open up the possibility of garlic curing cancer.

Of course it's possible. That doesn't mean it is true, or even likely. It is also possible that storing ants in your bellybutton cures baldness, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it

Your examples are pretty bad. There aren't many people who claim that bellybutton ants cure baldness, but there are a whole lot of people who claim that cancer can be and has been cured with plants like garlic.

Are you going to completely ignore evidence?
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Lord Dave on December 28, 2016, 08:17:22 PM
Why would millions of people do something for hundreds of years if no one ever received any kind of benefit from it?
Are you seriously using an ad populum?Also... burying the dead in monuments.  No benefit what so ever yet we still do it.
Living in harsh environments.

First off, people do receive benefit from burying their dead in monuments. Your counterargument is completely laughable.
And that benefit is?

Quote
Secondly, It's not an ad populum argument. The argument is not based on nothing more than belief. I am referencing the thousands of years of human experiments which have molded the current natural medicine fields. It is an empirical argument that natural medicines have cured the things they claim to cure.
The thousands of years of people praying for aid from God and getting nothing?
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on December 28, 2016, 08:35:02 PM
Quote from: Lord Dave
And that benefit is?

What am I, an elementary school teacher? You can figure out the benefits of burial monuments for yourself.

The thousands of years of people praying for aid from God and getting nothing?

I'm fairly certain that religious people don't go around claiming that God will give you anything you wish for. Are you just making stuff up now?
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: TotesNotReptilian on December 28, 2016, 08:42:01 PM
If you agree that it is possible for herbal medicines to cure disease, then you open up the possibility of garlic curing cancer.

Of course it's possible. That doesn't mean it is true, or even likely. It is also possible that storing ants in your bellybutton cures baldness, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it

Your examples are pretty bad. There aren't many people who claim that bellybutton ants cure baldness, but there are a whole lot of people who claim that cancer can be and has been cured with plants like garlic.

So... your proof that garlic cures cancer is "a whole lot of people claim that cancer can be cured with plants like garlic?" Gee golly, you sure have convinced me. Your argument is airtight!

Quote
Are you completely ignorant to the concept of evidence?

I am genuinely curious as to what you think the definition of "evidence" is.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: garygreen on December 28, 2016, 08:48:07 PM
Prayer probably does help people with Cancer to some degree.

if some prayer will kill cancer, then lots of prayer will cure cancer. it's not really such a difficult leap. you might as well tell me it's only possible to get a little wet from my refrigerator's water dispenser.

there are a lot of people who claim that various psalms and prayers cured their cancer.

But you really need a reality check if you think that is all they do at Catholic hospitals.
it's a shame that it isn't, actually: if i were an oncologist practicing traditional oncology 60% of my patients would be dead within 5 years.

Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on December 28, 2016, 09:41:42 PM
So... your proof that garlic cures cancer is "a whole lot of people claim that cancer can be cured with plants like garlic?" Gee golly, you sure have convinced me. Your argument is airtight!

There are people who claim to have been cured by garlic, and there are people who have claimed to have been cured by peppers. Those testimonials are evidence that cancer is treatable by these things.

if some prayer will kill cancer, then lots of prayer will cure cancer. it's not really such a difficult leap. you might as well tell me it's only possible to get a little wet from my refrigerator's water dispenser.

there are a lot of people who claim that various psalms and prayers cured their cancer.

This is a false equivalence. There are people who claim that by using garlic alone cured their incurable cancer, but almost no one claims that their incurable cancers were cured with prayer alone. The people who claim that prayer cured their cancer also admit that they were taking other things too.

'I Believed God Would Heal Me, and He Did,' Says Man Cured of 'Inoperable Cancer' (http://www.christianpost.com/news/i-believed-god-would-heal-me-and-he-did-says-man-cured-of-inoperable-cancer-video-103568/)

Quote
Hart's oncologist, Tammy Young, told the Town Talk, that while she certainly believed the Tarceva was effective in curing his cancer, prayer definitely played a role in the outcome.

"He has a lung cancer that has a mutation that is very responsive to Tarceva," Young said. "He began taking Tarceva and took it for a few months and had a very good response from the treatment…"Most patients don't have as spectacular a response as Hal has had. And, absolutely, the power of prayer is an important part of this picture."

Prayer certainly seems to help, as the Oncologist above herself asserts. But the fact that Catholic hospitals do not use prayer alone to treat cancer should be enough evidence that it is not the recommended religious treatment for that ailment.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: TotesNotReptilian on December 28, 2016, 10:17:48 PM
So... your proof that garlic cures cancer is "a whole lot of people claim that cancer can be cured with plants like garlic?" Gee golly, you sure have convinced me. Your argument is airtight!

There are people who claim to have been cured by garlic, and there are people who have claimed to have been cured by peppers. Those testimonials are evidence that cancer is treatable by these things.

Sure, but it's extremely weak, self-reported, anecdotal evidence. People claim all sorts of stuff cured their cancer. I just googled the first 6 foods that popped into my head: carrots, lettuce, broccoli, coffee, chocolate, peanuts. Every single one had multiple websites that claimed they cure/prevent/fight cancer.

Self-reported cures are extremely susceptible to all sorts of bias and errors.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on December 28, 2016, 11:49:34 PM
So... your proof that garlic cures cancer is "a whole lot of people claim that cancer can be cured with plants like garlic?" Gee golly, you sure have convinced me. Your argument is airtight!

There are people who claim to have been cured by garlic, and there are people who have claimed to have been cured by peppers. Those testimonials are evidence that cancer is treatable by these things.

Sure, but it's extremely weak, self-reported, anecdotal evidence. People claim all sorts of stuff cured their cancer. I just googled the first 6 foods that popped into my head: carrots, lettuce, broccoli, coffee, chocolate, peanuts. Every single one had multiple websites that claimed they cure/prevent/fight cancer.

Self-reported cures are extremely susceptible to all sorts of bias and errors.

When a woman details how she cured her Stage 4 Cancer with "carrot juice, nothing else" (http://www.chrisbeatcancer.com/ann-cameron-cured-her-cancer-with-carrot-juice/) that is pretty good evidence that carrot juice cures cancer. Stage 4 Cancer is the stage of cancer which is untreatable and death is certain. Doctors tell you to go home and die at that stage -- you are untreatable.

There is no other explanation for what could of cured that woman's cancer; except that there was something in the 5 pounds of carrot juice she was drinking a day that exhibited cancer fighting properties. Many other people have similar stories of carrot juice curing cancers and various other diseases. It makes sense as well; as carrots are a root vegetable which evolved in an environment not too dissimilar to garlic, and which must contend with a wide host of funguses and parasites, constantly fighting off diseases , including cancer, within itself. It follows that if you put those beneficial substances into the human body, which has evolved in symbiosis with root vegetables, the body will use those substances to fight its own diseases.

If you are claiming that this story and the many stories like it are untrue, then that seems delusional. There is really no other explanation for how this woman and others survived, unless you choose to accuse all of these people as being liars.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Woody on December 29, 2016, 01:57:07 AM
So... your proof that garlic cures cancer is "a whole lot of people claim that cancer can be cured with plants like garlic?" Gee golly, you sure have convinced me. Your argument is airtight!

There are people who claim to have been cured by garlic, and there are people who have claimed to have been cured by peppers. Those testimonials are evidence that cancer is treatable by these things.

Sure, but it's extremely weak, self-reported, anecdotal evidence. People claim all sorts of stuff cured their cancer. I just googled the first 6 foods that popped into my head: carrots, lettuce, broccoli, coffee, chocolate, peanuts. Every single one had multiple websites that claimed they cure/prevent/fight cancer.

Self-reported cures are extremely susceptible to all sorts of bias and errors.

When a woman details how she cured her Stage 4 Cancer with "carrot juice, nothing else" (http://www.chrisbeatcancer.com/ann-cameron-cured-her-cancer-with-carrot-juice/) that is pretty good evidence that carrot juice cures cancer. Stage 4 Cancer is the stage of cancer which is untreatable and death is certain. Doctors tell you to go home and die at that stage -- you are untreatable.

There is no other explanation for what could of cured that woman's cancer; except that there was something in the 5 pounds of carrot juice she was drinking  day that exhibited cancer fighting properties. Many other people have similar stories of carrot juice curing cancers and various other diseases. It makes sense as well; as carrots are a root vegetable which evolved in an environment not too dissimilar to garlic, and which must contend with a wide host of funguses and parasites, constantly fighting off diseases , including cancer, within itself. It follows that if you put those beneficial substances into the human body, which has evolved in symbiosis with root vegetables, the body will use those substances to fight its own diseases.

If you are claiming that this story and the many stories like it are untrue, you must be delusional. There is really no other explanation for how this woman and others survived, unless you choose to accuse all of these people as being liars.

This one died from cancer:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3173212/Newlywed-shuns-chemotherapy-CARROTS-vows-beat-cancer-alternative-therapies-trying-baby-doctors-warn-s-no-evidence-work.html

Is that evidence it does not work?

Are you going to ignore the person in the first link diagnosed himself with stage 4 cancer?  Not only that he used a method that would not detect the type of cancer he claims to have had.

So is it your belief all doctors and researchers involved with researching a cure are evil and hiding the truth?

The problem with that logic is you are able to find stuff supporting garlic can reduce growth or kill cancer from those people.  They did not sweep it under the rug trying to hide it from the masses.  That is why you can find the results and conclusions using an internet search.


Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: garygreen on December 29, 2016, 01:57:48 AM
This is a false equivalence. There are people who claim that by using garlic alone cured their incurable cancer, but almost no one claims that their incurable cancers were cured with prayer alone. The people who claim that prayer cured their cancer also admit that they were taking other things too.

Prayer certainly seems to help, as the Oncologist above herself asserts. But the fact that Catholic hospitals do not use prayer alone to treat cancer should be enough evidence that it is not the recommended religious treatment for that ailment.

what do i care what methods traditional oncologists use to kill their patients?  again, if a little prayer can fight cancer, why can't a lot of prayer cure cancer?

a simple google search shows that there has been a lot of research showing that prayer alone kills cancer:

http://www1.cbn.com/700club/wayne-higgins-cry-cured-cancer
https://www.tgm.org/HealedFromCancerPM.html
http://mswm.org/miracles.alook.htm
http://mswm.org/miracle_healing_testimony_andrewkakepetum.htm
https://www.hopefaithprayer.com/books/Healed%20of%20Cancer%20-%20Osteen.pdf
http://www.alanames.org/en/testimonies.htm
http://healingandrevival.com/testimonies/?p=367

when people detail how they cured their stage 4 cancer with "prayer, nothing else" that is pretty good evidence that prayer cures cancer.  if you are claiming that this story and the many stories like it are untrue, you must be delusional.  there is really no other explanation for how they survived, unless you choose to accuse all of these people as being liars.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on December 29, 2016, 03:19:46 AM
This one died from cancer:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3173212/Newlywed-shuns-chemotherapy-CARROTS-vows-beat-cancer-alternative-therapies-trying-baby-doctors-warn-s-no-evidence-work.html

Is that evidence it does not work?

Where does it say that she died from cancer?

Quote
Are you going to ignore the person in the first link diagnosed himself with stage 4 cancer?  Not only that he used a method that would not detect the type of cancer he claims to have had.

There are plenty of other testimonials (http://www.healingcancernaturally.com/habaneropeppers-garlic-oilcure.html) on the website, from people who were diagnosed with cancer via biopsy.

Quote
So is it your belief all doctors and researchers involved with researching a cure are evil and hiding the truth?

Researchers do study natural substances and show that they have cancer fighting effects. There are many university studies on the effect natural substances have on cancers. Its the drug companies who refuse to sponsor them for Phase 4 Clinical Trials.

Quote
The problem with that logic is you are able to find stuff supporting garlic can reduce growth or kill cancer from those people.  They did not sweep it under the rug trying to hide it from the masses.  That is why you can find the results and conclusions using an internet search.

The drug companies don't control what gets posted on the internet.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: TotesNotReptilian on December 29, 2016, 03:55:57 AM
Are you going to ignore the person in the first link diagnosed himself with stage 4 cancer?  Not only that he used a method that would not detect the type of cancer he claims to have had.

There are plenty of other testimonials (http://www.healingcancernaturally.com/habaneropeppers-garlic-oilcure.html) on the website, from people who were diagnosed with cancer via biopsy.

Self-reported testimonials are subject to selection bias, and are almost useless for identifying a causative link among multiple variables. It has nothing to do with the honesty of the people reporting the results. It simply isn't possible to separate out all the confounding variables with such a small sample size, for something as complicated as cancer.

Quote
Quote
So is it your belief all doctors and researchers involved with researching a cure are evil and hiding the truth?

Researchers do study natural substances and show that they have cancer fighting effects. There are many university studies on the effect natural substances have on cancers. Its the drug companies who refuse to sponsor them for Phase 4 Clinical Trials.

Screw phase 4 trials. How about at least phase 2? Or even phase 1?

Before you can claim that garlic cures cancer, you should be able to answer most of these questions:

1. How many people have been cured by garlic?
2. How many have tried to use garlic as a cure, and failed?
3. What is the breakdown by dosage?
4. What is the breakdown by cancer type and stage?
5. Based on these results, how effective is garlic compared to other treatment options (chemo, radiation, etc.)?
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on December 29, 2016, 04:15:30 AM
a simple google search shows that there has been a lot of research showing that prayer alone kills cancer:

http://www1.cbn.com/700club/wayne-higgins-cry-cured-cancer
https://www.tgm.org/HealedFromCancerPM.html
http://mswm.org/miracles.alook.htm
http://mswm.org/miracle_healing_testimony_andrewkakepetum.htm
https://www.hopefaithprayer.com/books/Healed%20of%20Cancer%20-%20Osteen.pdf
http://www.alanames.org/en/testimonies.htm
http://healingandrevival.com/testimonies/?p=367

when people detail how they cured their stage 4 cancer with "prayer, nothing else" that is pretty good evidence that prayer cures cancer.  if you are claiming that this story and the many stories like it are untrue, you must be delusional.  there is really no other explanation for how they survived, unless you choose to accuse all of these people as being liars.

Who is to say it's impossible to treat cancer with prayer? It's probably not the most reliable method, but there are countless studies of the placebo effect; which occurs through an unknown mechanism. Simply believing that you will be cured actually cures the ailment.

Dr. Mercola seems to believe that there have been cases of cancer remission via placebo effect (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2008/02/19/how-your-thoughts-can-cause-or-cure-cancer.aspx):

Quote
It is also not unusual for people to experience spontaneous remissions from cancer and other diseases simply because they have had a profound change in their beliefs or outlook on life.

The mechanism is not at all understood, but studies have shown that the brain is directly wired to the immune system, and that happier people have a stronger immune system:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-happiness-boosts-the-immune-system/

Quote
studies during the 1980s and early 1990s revealed that the brain is directly wired to the immune system — portions of the nervous system connect with immune-related organs such as the thymus and bone marrow, and immune cells have receptors for neurotransmitters, suggesting that there is crosstalk.

A bad chemistry of the brain may somehow be inhibiting the functioning of the immune system.

The placebo effect is very real. It's probably not easy to achieve, and probably requires excellent nutrition, but I believe that there have been people who have cured their own chronic illnesses through enlightenment. Anyone with an ongoing chronic illness knows that the pain seems to go away and the symptoms seem to subside when they are in a jovial and happy mood. From the Buddhist perspective, the mind is the creator of sickness and health. If you have a healthy mind, you will have a healthy body.

Have you never considered that these alternative approaches to health have some truth to it and the world isn't full of liars?
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on December 29, 2016, 05:21:56 AM
Self-reported testimonials are subject to selection bias, and are almost useless for identifying a causative link among multiple variables. It has nothing to do with the honesty of the people reporting the results. It simply isn't possible to separate out all the confounding variables with such a small sample size, for something as complicated as cancer.

There is nothing complicated about cancer. Cancer is the body's last line of defense of a compromised immune system.

Quote
Screw phase 4 trials. How about at least phase 2? Or even phase 1?

Before you can claim that garlic cures cancer, you should be able to answer most of these questions:

1. How many people have been cured by garlic?
2. How many have tried to use garlic as a cure, and failed?
3. What is the breakdown by dosage?
4. What is the breakdown by cancer type and stage?
5. Based on these results, how effective is garlic compared to other treatment options (chemo, radiation, etc.)?

We don't have the support of the medical establishment to study such things on a large scale. It takes a lot of money.

Carefully compiled statistics are not really needed before trying a natural treatment, since nothing is dangerous. American naturopathic doctors typically operate experimentally, and have a lot of leeway to try many things, since the medicines used are not at all harmful to the body. It became tribal knowledge from experiment to experience that certain herbs are good for certain ailments.

Traditional Chinese Medicine does have the support of the medical establishment in China, however, and Chinese Medical Journals are replete with such statistics. They are available if someone knowledgeable in Chinese were inclined to look for them. Traditional Chinese Medicine is a bit more structured, and visiting a Traditional Chinese Medicine doctor is a wise choice when faced with a serious ailment.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Woody on December 29, 2016, 11:47:53 AM
This one died from cancer:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3173212/Newlywed-shuns-chemotherapy-CARROTS-vows-beat-cancer-alternative-therapies-trying-baby-doctors-warn-s-no-evidence-work.html

Is that evidence it does not work?

Where does it say that she died from cancer?

Quote
So is it your belief all doctors and researchers involved with researching a cure are evil and hiding the truth?
The drug companies don't control what gets posted on the internet.

Search her name, sometimes it is easy to find the information sometimes it is not.  This time it was easy.  Just add "death" after her name.  I would also try that every time you see someone saying they have refused treatment. Not the ones after they claim they cured their cancer.

I did not simply dismiss claims about curing cancer with home remedies. I went beyond of just accepting what was being written. My father had cancer and I can tell you garlic, carrots and what ever else being pushed as natural cures did not work.  I spent a lot of time and effort researching and learning about cancer.  End result is he got treatment and died 18 years later due to heart failure.

If you or a loved one ever gets cancer I highly suggest you do not just push garlic or carrots.  Really review and research the people making the claims they have a cure.  At best many are honest and misguided.  At worst some know exactly what they are doing and selling books.  I have even seen one with a hotline that charged $75 an hour.

I have a sister-in-law that writes false testimonials for things.  Her reasoning is she is fighting the pharmaceutical companies and it is justified.  She believes she is right, so believes what she doing is right. I do not agree and she does not care for me much since I tell her I do not.

I can use you as an example of this behavior with the Bishop Experiment. Wrong distance which was finally fixed, the amazing telescope allowing you to see incredible detail at 23 miles, that telescope not being affected by disturbances in the atmosphere, claiming you could see that beach with the naked eye.  I guess the last one could be true depending on how you want to define,"seeing the beach". If seeing the higher ground behind the beach is seeing the beach then I guess it is alright.

TL:DR

Just research the people making the claims by going beyond only reading what they wrote.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on December 29, 2016, 04:44:00 PM
Search her name, sometimes it is easy to find the information sometimes it is not.  This time it was easy.  Just add "death" after her name.  I would also try that every time you see someone saying they have refused treatment. Not the ones after they claim they cured their cancer.

I searched for Alex Wynn death and got

Another unnecessary death in the making, thanks to cancer quackery (http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2015/07/28/another-unnecessary-death-in-the-making-thanks-to-cancer-quackery/) ...

Young woman with cancer is killing herself via alternative treatment (http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027018663) ...

None of these links say that she died. They give the opinion of someone who thinks that she is killing herself. Please provide further evidence for your assertion that she died.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Rama Set on December 29, 2016, 06:01:45 PM
Tom you pushed a lot of "correlation equals causation" narratives in the last 2 pages. It doesn't hold together because it doesn't show that carrots/prayer/Chinese medicine could be the only cause of the change in people's condition.

The placebo effect and morale are well known to be effective but that is about patient belief in health and well-being and nothing to do with garlic/carrots/bullshit medicine.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on December 30, 2016, 12:34:51 AM
Tom you pushed a lot of "correlation equals causation" narratives in the last 2 pages. It doesn't hold together because it doesn't show that carrots/prayer/Chinese medicine could be the only cause of the change in people's condition.

The placebo effect and morale are well known to be effective but that is about patient belief in health and well-being and nothing to do with garlic/carrots/bullshit medicine.

If Garlic is complete BS, please explain the following:

http://truedemocracyparty.net/2013/11/garlic-the-natural-cure-8-scientific-studies-that-prove-garlic-kills-cancer-dead-dead-dead/

Quote
In Dr. Earl Mindell’s Garlic: The Miracle Nutrient, a 1957 study in the journal Science reported that researchers incubated sarcoma tumor cells with the garlic compound Allinase and S-ethyl-L-cysteine sulfoxide, then injected the tumor cells into mice. Tumor growth was completely inhibited and the mice survived beyond the sixth month observation period according to researchers. Mice injected with the tumor cells only (without the garlic compound), survived only 2 months.

http://www.miracleofgarlic.com/cancer-and-garlic/

Quote
The good news is research into garlic against cancer has shown positive results.  In laboratory tests with mice, garlic stabilized and actually shrunk tumors.  In mice injected with garlic extracts, tumor growth decreased by 30-50%.  In mice that were given dietary garlic, the growths decreased by 10-25%.

http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9707/21/nfm.garlic.cancer/index.html

Quote
One study, at the Mercy Cancer Institute in Pittsburgh, shows that garlic can help slow the growth of tumors.

"We have shown that some of these compounds prevent cancer in animals, and we hope that's the case in humans," said Shivendra Singh of the institute.

"We know how these garlic compounds are inhibiting cancer, but whether or not they have some kind of specificity for certain types of tumors, that remains to be seen," he said.

Other studies, some of them at West Virginia University, have found that garlic can inhibit the growth of breast cancer.

Also, says Dr. Donald Lamm of West Virginia University, "garlic very significantly reduced the growth of bladder tumors in mice."

Researchers at the university think garlic may help boost the immune system in laboratory mice, thereby reducing the growth of cancerous cells.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: TotesNotReptilian on December 30, 2016, 09:05:32 AM
Tom, all these studies show that garlic MIGHT reduce the risk of cancer, or slow cancer growth, or maybe even kill cancer cells under certain conditions. Many of the studies were only done on MICE, not humans. Also, most of the articles you provided don't even source the studies they are talking about. Here is an article that actually provides sources for the studies it references: https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/diet/garlic-fact-sheet (https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/diet/garlic-fact-sheet).

Remember, you are claiming that curing cancer is trivial with garlic and peppers. None of these studies even come close to supporting your claim.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on December 30, 2016, 01:01:00 PM
Tom, all these studies show that garlic MIGHT reduce the risk of cancer, or slow cancer growth, or maybe even kill cancer cells under certain conditions. Many of the studies were only done on MICE, not humans. Also, most of the articles you provided don't even source the studies they are talking about. Here is an article that actually provides sources for the studies it references: https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/diet/garlic-fact-sheet (https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/diet/garlic-fact-sheet).

Remember, you are claiming that curing cancer is trivial with garlic and peppers. None of these studies even come close to supporting your claim.

Actually the studies show that garlic DOES reverse cancer. The fact that it was done to mice in laboratory conditions, with control groups, pretty much demonstrates the effect to a certainty. You can't claim that the cancer was really cured by the mouse's paleo diet or whatever.

So garlic just "happens" to reverse cancer in mice, but is non-effective in humans? And there just "happens" to be a ton of people who claim that garlic reversed their cancer? And garlic really does nothing? Are you even listening to yourself?
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on December 30, 2016, 01:15:53 PM
The source you linked provides additional evidence that garlic fights cancer:

Quote
Several population studies show an association between increased intake of garlic and reduced risk of certain cancers, including cancers of the stomach, colon, esophagus, pancreas, and breast. Population studies are multidisciplinary studies of population groups that investigate the cause, incidence, or spread of a disease or examine the effect of health-related interventions, dietary and nutritional intakes, or environmental exposures. An analysis of data from seven population studies showed that the higher the amount of raw and cooked garlic consumed, the lower the risk of stomach and colorectal cancer (5).

Quote
The results of a small, nonrandomized study indicate that the application of garlic extracts to some skin tumors may be beneficial. In the study, which involved 21 persons with basal cell carcinoma, the application of ajoene (a sulfurous chemical found in garlic) to the skin for 1 month markedly decreased the size of 17 tumors, increased tumor size in 3 patients, and resulted in no change in 1 other patient (16). Changes in tumor size ranged from an 88 percent reduction to a 69 percent increase, with an overall median reduction of 47 percent.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: TotesNotReptilian on December 30, 2016, 09:28:19 PM
Tom, all these studies show that garlic MIGHT reduce the risk of cancer, or slow cancer growth, or maybe even kill cancer cells under certain conditions. Many of the studies were only done on MICE, not humans. Also, most of the articles you provided don't even source the studies they are talking about. Here is an article that actually provides sources for the studies it references: https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/diet/garlic-fact-sheet (https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/diet/garlic-fact-sheet).

Remember, you are claiming that curing cancer is trivial with garlic and peppers. None of these studies even come close to supporting your claim.

Actually the studies show that garlic DOES reverse cancer. The fact that it was done to mice in laboratory conditions, with control groups, pretty much demonstrates the effect to a certainty. You can't claim that the cancer was really cured by the mouses paleo diet or whatever.

You think those studies "demonstrate the effect to a certainty"? Lol. You seem determined to exaggerate any tiny bit of evidence that garlic MIGHT have some limited effect on cancer, into a full-blown miracle cure.

Quote
So garlic just "happens" to reverse cancer in mice, but is non-effective in humans? And there just "happens" to be a ton of people who claim that garlic reversed their cancer? And garlic really does nothing? Are you even listening to yourself?

You are arguing with a straw-man. I didn't claim garlic does nothing. I claimed that you have no evidence that garlic makes cancer trivially easy to cure. There is a huge difference.

Also, there are plenty of studies that show positive results for mice but never succeed with humans. In case you didn't notice, mice and humans are ever so slightly different.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on December 31, 2016, 02:21:46 AM
Is your narrative now that garlic happens to cure cancer in mice, and only mice, but all the human people who claim that garlic has helped their cancers are liars? Come on now. That is just incredulous.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Rama Set on December 31, 2016, 03:16:34 AM
Is your narrative now that garlic happens to cure cancer in mice, and only mice, but all the human people who claim that garlic has helped their cancers are liars? Come on now. That is just incredulous.

Don't be so dramatic.  People can simply be mistaken that it was the garlic that cured them and it is entirely possible that a treatment can work on an animal of a different species and not on humans. 
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on December 31, 2016, 03:47:16 AM
People were saying that garlic cured cancer long before those animal studies. The Ancient Greek physician Hippocrates recommended his patients to eat large amounts of crushed garlic to cure their cancer.

What is the likelihood that this cancer marvel totally does not work on humans, but that it happens to cure cancer in mice?

I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall here.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Rama Set on December 31, 2016, 03:49:46 AM
People were saying that garlic cured cancer long before those animal studies. The ancient greek Hippocrates recommended his patients eat large amounts of crushed garlic to cure their cancer.

Good for Hippocrates.  Is this supposed to prove something?  Lots of people claim that acupuncture can perform all sorts of miracles too, yet when double blind, placebo controlled studies are done, almost all of the claims about acupuncture prove to be invisible.  People can be, and often are, just wrong about what they perceive as the operating agent in their health turnarounds.

Quote
What is the likelihood that this cancer marvel totally does not work on humans, but that it happens to cure cancer in mice?

I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall here.

I don't particularly care if you feel that way, you are making bad arguments.  Neither you nor I has any idea what the likelihood is, and to guess at it is an exercise in futility.  However, as Totes pointed out, the studies you cited say that garlic might contribute to curing patients, not that it definitely is an outright cure.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on December 31, 2016, 03:57:23 AM
There are countless types of of flowers and grasses and barks in the world, but Hippocrates happened to tell people to cure their cancer with something that actually does cure cancer in animal studies. The evidence it there, it is strong and plentiful, and to ignore it is plain denial.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Rama Set on December 31, 2016, 04:33:19 AM
There are countless types of of flowers and grasses and barks in the world, but Hippocrates happened to tell people to cure their cancer with something that actually does cure cancer in animal studies.

He prescribed it, but where is your evidence that his course of treatment actually worked?

Quote
The evidence it there, it is strong and plentiful, and to ignore it is plain denial.

The evidence is there, it just doesn't say what you want it to say.

Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: TotesNotReptilian on December 31, 2016, 07:38:09 PM
Is your narrative now that garlic happens to cure cancer in mice, and only mice, but all the human people who claim that garlic has helped their cancers are liars? Come on now. That is just incredulous.

First of all, I don't think you know what incredulous means.

Second of all, no, that is not my narrative. You are still making straw-man arguments. I did not claim those people are liars, nor did I claim garlic cures cancer in mice, nor did I claim garlic isn't potentially useful in fighting cancer in humans or mice. My "narrative" is that your claim that garlic is some kind of miracle cure is baseless.

Third of all, the articles don't claim that garlic cures cancer EVEN IN MICE. These two (http://www.miracleofgarlic.com/cancer-and-garlic/) articles (http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9707/21/nfm.garlic.cancer/index.html) that you provided claim that studies show that garlic can help prevent and shrink certain types of tumors in mice. Nowhere did they claim that the mice were cured of cancer. There is a difference. Slowing, shrinking, or preventing tumors is not the same as curing. It's definitely a step in the right direction, and potentially very useful, but it is not the same thing. Once again, those articles do not source the studies they reference, so take them with a grain of salt.

This article (https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/diet/garlic-fact-sheet) DOES source the studies it uses, and it shows mixed results for studies on humans. Some of the studies showed promising results, some did not. None showed that it was a perfect cure.

None of the articles you have provided reference any study that claims garlic cures cancer in either mice or men. If garlic is really the miracle cure that you think it is, why are there so many studies that only show a limited or no effect? Wouldn't those studies report a near 100% success rate if your claim was true?
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Elusive Rabbit on January 19, 2017, 10:28:37 PM
So, I should take this sort of advice from a TFES forum poster, a guy who wrote a clickbait-syle titled book, and ancient medical practices over the modern medical community, with their decades of scientifically validated research and so much more?

No thanks.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 23, 2017, 10:34:25 PM
Well, if the reader has been paying attention, medical science does say that garlic reverses cancer. The university medical studies say that garlic kills cancer. The pharmaceutical industry neglects to move forward with it because garlic can't be patented.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: TotesNotReptilian on January 25, 2017, 02:30:32 AM
Well, if you've been paying attention, medical science does say that garlic reverses cancer might help prevent or reduce certain types of cancer in mice under certain conditions. There have also been population studies on humans that show mixed results. The university medical studies say that garlic kills cancer. [citation needed]. I assume the pharmaceutical industry neglects to move forward with it because garlic can't be patented, and I like to jump to conclusions that reinforce my preconceived notions.

Fixed for accuracy and specificity.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: disputeone on April 16, 2017, 01:34:49 AM
I think it's important not to dissuade people from seeking orthodox medical treatments.

Tom what you are doing is borderline immoral, giving people diet tips is fine but you are doing harm to people of you discourage them for seeking professional help.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Rounder on April 22, 2017, 04:29:43 AM
I think it's important not to dissuade people from seeking orthodox medical treatments.

Tom what you are doing is borderline immoral, giving people diet tips is fine but you are doing harm to people of you discourage them for seeking professional help.

Anyone who takes medical advice from a random stranger on the internet has only themselves to blame for their "treatment" outcomes.  Just saying.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on April 26, 2017, 03:36:25 AM
I think it's important not to dissuade people from seeking orthodox medical treatments.

Tom what you are doing is borderline immoral, giving people diet tips is fine but you are doing harm to people of you discourage them for seeking professional help.

Anyone who takes medical advice from a random stranger on the internet has only themselves to blame for their "treatment" outcomes.  Just saying.

It's a good thing I have been citing medical research studies then, isn't it?
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Rama Set on April 26, 2017, 11:41:51 AM
In Rounder's comment, you are the random stranger. He is saying that anyone who takes your advice is foolish.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on April 26, 2017, 04:54:47 PM
In Rounder's comment, you are the random stranger. He is saying that anyone who takes your advice is foolish.

Since this thread seems to be getting thousands of views I've added a disclaimer to the OP instructing people to consult a medical professional before exploring a path of self treatment.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: disputeone on May 01, 2017, 12:17:05 AM
In Rounder's comment, you are the random stranger. He is saying that anyone who takes your advice is foolish.

Since this thread seems to be getting thousands of views I've added a disclaimer to the OP instructing people to consult a medical professional before exploring a path of self treatment.

Thanks, I appreciate it.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Fortuna on June 11, 2017, 07:38:19 PM
http://bastyr.edu/news/general-news/2012/11/fda-approves-bastyr-turkey-tail-trial-cancer-patients
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Dionysios on June 26, 2017, 05:44:51 PM
In accord with the spirit of the initial post about achieving good health without being exploited by the medical establishment, I'd like to mention a series of useful and practical oriented medical books I recently associated with the People's Medical Society.

The now defunct People's Medical Society was anti-medical establishment organisation that formed as an offshoot of Rodale Press which has been one of the major publishers of organic gardening books since the 1930's. The zenith of the People's Medical Society was the 1980's and 1990's. Unsurprisingly, it was slandered by many establishment medical doctors. An informative link describing one investigator's findings:

http://www.healthy.net/Health/Article/Peoples_Medical_Society/1030

The significance of the People's Medical Society today is an excellent series of books authored and co-authored by its Chief Executive Officer Charles Inlander. His books are available used and inexpensive through vendors like Amazon, Abe Books, etc.

Examples are 'Take This Book to the Hospital With You' which has a perspective of doctors and the medical establishment as predatory fascists out to skin you alive. The book is useful to avoid incurring unnecessary costs and unnecessary surgeries and medical procedures. It assists one's health and finances. He wrote a whole series of such books such as 'Take This Book to the Dentist... the Gynecologist... the Pediatrician... the Obstetrician, etc.

 For home use, I also picked up Charles Inlander's 'Over the Counter Doctor' and similar books. One book not directly associated with the People's Medical Society but worthy of mention is 'Prescription for Nutritional Healing' by Phyllis Balch which has been my go to home medical book for many years.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: CriticalThinker on September 12, 2017, 03:18:38 PM
Though Tom & Co may not be conveying the information exactly as people expect, they're not totally off on this.  Diet plays a huge role in overall body function, most pharmaceuticals are concentrated dosages of compounds found in nature that indigenous people have been eating for generations, and double-blind placebo controlled trials are inherently designed to favor medications at the exclusion of all else.  It's the result of a combination of a little bit of narrow minded science and a healthy dose of profit motive.

The reason why there isn't a single cause identified for any cancer or a single cure identified for any cancer is because that's not how chronic disease works.  Chronic disease is the accumulation of a lot of little health mistakes over time which leads to the breakdown of normal system function.  Diet is a huge component of that as are other lifestyle factors that busy people tend to ignore.  The US economy relies on a workforce that works 100+ hours per year more than any other country which leads to a lot of lifestyle fails.  Combine that with a general lack of health education and chronic disease is guaranteed based purely out of ignorance and scheduling.  It sucks, but it's true and most doctors know it.

In an otherwise healthy person, there are a few random bunches of cancerous cells.  These cells most likely ended up with deranged DNA sequences because of basic statistical probability.  DNA can't be copied and pasted with 100% fidelity.  You take an environmental stressor that causes cell turnover rates to increase and a typographical error is 100% going to happen eventually.  Fine, what happens to the deranged DNA cell in an otherwise healthy person?  Their immune system recognizes it, destroys it and everything goes back to normal until it happens again.  Lather, rinse, repeat.

What happens to that small cancerous cluster in a person that has a crap diet, gets no sunlight or exercise and thinks that there's no environmental stressors they can't handle with booze, cigarettes, coffee or insert other addiction here?  Their immune system gets sluggish, can't keep up and some of those cells start to multiply and spread.  Once their numbers are large enough to cause symptoms, you get your official cancer diagnosis.

Will taking garlic like it's a medication in mega doses cure cancer?  No, that's not how the body works so when it is tested using a double-blind placebo controlled trial, it will fail.  All of the foods that I've seen listed in this thread play a role in good immune function so improving your trash diet by adding in some real food may just allow your immune system to catch up if you're lucky.  No promises, but you really don't have much to lose either by improving your diet in the earliest phases of cancer.  Current cancer treatments are wildly destructive, not targeted at all and the equivalent of using a hand grenade to kill a mosquito.  You'll get it, hopefully, but you'll damage a lot of other things that you didn't really want to as well.  When you get the wait and watch recommendation, that's when you really want to double down on fixing your lifestyle habits because it could actually work.

My very real question is this.  Why do people so easily dismiss a healthy varied diet and routine physical activity as being beneficial to health?  This should not be that hard to wrap your head around.  You treat your health like it's expendable and you'll spend it quickly.  Health is the only thing I have ever come across that people place no value on prior to losing it.

CriticalThinker
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Boots on September 12, 2017, 07:04:57 PM
I'm all for healthy eating and I believe a healthy diet helps prevent and, in some cases, even cure cancer. However I, and most everyone as far as I can tell, do not agree that cancer is easily cured with a few grocery store items.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: CriticalThinker on September 12, 2017, 07:54:16 PM
I'm all for healthy eating and I believe a healthy diet helps prevent and, in some cases, even cure cancer. However I, and most everyone as far as I can tell, do not agree that cancer is easily cured with a few grocery store items.

Ultimately that really boils down to an arbitrary time definition.  Technically speaking we all have cancerous cells present all the time.  The arbitrary time cutoff you are using is after critical mass has been reached and severe symptoms felt.  By that time, your immune system has been losing a slow battle for years/decades and you had undiagnosed cancer that whole time.  That's why they are graded in stages instead of a binary grading system.  Stage 4, probably not going to reverse no matter what you try.  Precancerous abnormalities, Stage 0.5 because they really don't like calling it cancer, is a sugar coated way of saying cancer that probably won't kill you right away.  One could conceivably be cured by changes in lifestyle factors, the other probably not.  However, that doesn't negate the sad reality that both are still cancer. 

Early nonaggressive cancer can easily be treated using grocery store items.  Stage 0.5 cancer is the watch and wait type of cancer but you probably won't hear that you could reverse it at this stage by making some serious life changes.  That's because many doctors have become too cynical to believe that you'll actually follow through with the changes necessary for that to happen.  Instead, they assume that you'll continue on with your mildly destructive habits until you reach a later stage and then they'll perform chemo or surgery.  Same thing happens for pre-diabetes.  Why bother teaching the patient something they don't want to learn only to have them ignore your advice.  It's much easier to just leave it be and wait until they need medication because that's how 1st world countries work.

Though I'm not a oncologist, I am a doctor with a master's in public health to boot so no clinical slouch.  Those that rapidly dismiss lifestyle factors as relevant to health typically don't want to take responsibility for their bad habits.  There's an awful lot that the medical community doesn't know and a little that they'd rather not talk about.  Take a look at the funded research by the American Heart Association, American Diabetes Association and American Cancer Society and take a look at the distribution of funding between prevention research and management research.  American Caner Society is about a 1:2 ratio respectively.

Per the American Cancer Society page.
Obesity, lack of physical activity, and poor diet are major risk factors for cancer – second only to tobacco use. The World Cancer Research Fund estimates that about 20% of all cancers diagnosed in the US are related to body fatness, physical inactivity, excess alcohol consumption, and/or poor nutrition, and thus could be prevented.

Read between the lines could be prevented = early stage cure.  Doctors just aren't allowed to call patients out to their faces because yelp reviews actually matter to hospital administrators now.

CT
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Boots on September 13, 2017, 05:37:45 AM
I'm all for healthy eating and I believe a healthy diet helps prevent and, in some cases, even cure cancer. However I, and most everyone as far as I can tell, do not agree that cancer is easily cured with a few grocery store items.

Ultimately that really boils down to an arbitrary time definition.  Technically speaking we all have cancerous cells present all the time.  The arbitrary time cutoff you are using is after critical mass has been reached and severe symptoms felt.  By that time, your immune system has been losing a slow battle for years/decades and you had undiagnosed cancer that whole time.  That's why they are graded in stages instead of a binary grading system.  Stage 4, probably not going to reverse no matter what you try.  Precancerous abnormalities, Stage 0.5 because they really don't like calling it cancer, is a sugar coated way of saying cancer that probably won't kill you right away.  One could conceivably be cured by changes in lifestyle factors, the other probably not.  However, that doesn't negate the sad reality that both are still cancer. 

Early nonaggressive cancer can easily be treated using grocery store items.  Stage 0.5 cancer is the watch and wait type of cancer but you probably won't hear that you could reverse it at this stage by making some serious life changes.  That's because many doctors have become too cynical to believe that you'll actually follow through with the changes necessary for that to happen.  Instead, they assume that you'll continue on with your mildly destructive habits until you reach a later stage and then they'll perform chemo or surgery.  Same thing happens for pre-diabetes.  Why bother teaching the patient something they don't want to learn only to have them ignore your advice.  It's much easier to just leave it be and wait until they need medication because that's how 1st world countries work.

Though I'm not a oncologist, I am a doctor with a master's in public health to boot so no clinical slouch.  Those that rapidly dismiss lifestyle factors as relevant to health typically don't want to take responsibility for their bad habits.  There's an awful lot that the medical community doesn't know and a little that they'd rather not talk about.  Take a look at the funded research by the American Heart Association, American Diabetes Association and American Cancer Society and take a look at the distribution of funding between prevention research and management research.  American Caner Society is about a 1:2 ratio respectively.

Per the American Cancer Society page.
Obesity, lack of physical activity, and poor diet are major risk factors for cancer – second only to tobacco use. The World Cancer Research Fund estimates that about 20% of all cancers diagnosed in the US are related to body fatness, physical inactivity, excess alcohol consumption, and/or poor nutrition, and thus could be prevented.

Read between the lines could be prevented = early stage cure.  Doctors just aren't allowed to call patients out to their faces because yelp reviews actually matter to hospital administrators now.

CT

Fair enough. I agree with your post.

The title is still grossly misleading though. If I were to declare that I had found the cure for cancer and when asked to present my cure I presented a clove of garlic wouldn't you consider that a tad dishonest?
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet on September 13, 2017, 08:00:20 AM

I'm kind of split on this, on the one hand whatever we do, we're gonna die, and I like Whisky and  black coffee, my leg joints are pretty much fucked from all the black ops' parachute jumps, and my mind is addled from chemical exploration in a misspent youth, so a long life would probably mean extended time being pushed around drooling, shouting obscenities at pretty nurses.
But I eat a largely vegetarian diet with a bit of fish, cycle to work and walk the dogs, I guess I'm trying to leave a decent looking corpse without being too much of a burden. NURSE!
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Dither on September 13, 2017, 09:09:39 AM
I guess the chances of getting the big C are higher if you abuse yourself.

But Cancer is no respecter of persons as I know someone right now who is a tee totalling vegan and is riddled with it. My Aunty also died of cancer after stopping drinking and smoking and becoming a fitness instructor (a la Jane Fonda) That was in the early eighties and that shocked the whole family, 6 months and it was all over red rover.
My friends Mother also never smoked a day in her life and died of lung cancer.

Add to this all the children who suffer with repeat bouts of leukaemia and cancer starts seeming pretty random.

Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: CriticalThinker on September 13, 2017, 04:01:58 PM
That's really the harshest reality of all.  We are all going to die of something and there's not a damn thing we can do to change that.  What it really boils down to is risk/reward/values.  If you don't live a life that fulfills you, why would you want it to last longer?  If you want to invest in your health, it's not that hard to do.  However, nothing and I mean nothing in this world will make you live forever.  I drink black coffee daily, just not a couple of pots of it.  I love a wide variety of alcohols, I just don't drink heavily.  I love me some red meat, I just don't eat over 1 lb of steak a night.  I can't wait for my next motorcycle ride.  I could slip and fall in the shower and die instantly no matter how healthy I am.  There's no way to know when you're about to be on the ass end of Murphy's Law.

Knowledge is power and knowing that you don't necessarily have to wait and do nothing is valuable.  Every time a person is prescribed a medication, they should ask why.  Then they should ask what they need to do to get back off of it down the road.  If the doctor tells you there's nothing you can do, find a new doctor because that one is lazy.

The original title of the post would be more accurate if it were rephrased as: Some stages of cancer could be easily reversed with grocery store items.

That's not all that inaccurate.

CT
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: DuckDodgers on September 13, 2017, 09:15:53 PM
Since when is there a thing of stage 0.5 precancerous abnormalities?  It seems odd that stage 0 is cancer, stage 1 is cancer, but stage 0.5 would be precancer.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: CriticalThinker on September 13, 2017, 10:09:50 PM
It varies facility to facility and cancer to cancer.  Stage 0.5 would be in the neighborhood of abnormal cells that can't quite be called cancer during the biopsy.  It would help a shit ton if they'd just call it cancer too.  Stage 0 only applies to specific cancers like breast cancer where routine screening is the norm.  They have to call is something on reports.  It's essentially the same between 0 and 0.5 but for different locations.  It's stupid and it should all be called cancer.

CT
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: devils advocate on September 21, 2017, 07:19:57 AM
If some garlic will kill cancer, then lots of garlic will cure cancer. It's not really such a difficult leap.

Tom you demonstrate an uncanny lack on knowledge of human physiology here. As you are talking hypothetically I will answer as such:

Imagine that 5g of garlic will kill 1000 cancer cells, logic follows that if I have 10,000 cancer cells I need only eat 50g of garlic and boom! Cancer gone.

The problem with this hypothesis is that the human digestive and metabolic system is not 100% efficient; hence why circa 24 hours after eating sweetcorn the husks can clearly be seen in one's faecal output. If I ate 50g of garlic not all of it would be digested, even if I ate 5,000g I may never reach the magic 50g I required. Think of it as a ceiling; the maximum amount of any given substance that the body can absorb.

The amount of garlic needed to cure the cancer can simply fall above the amount the body can digest.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on September 22, 2017, 03:10:02 PM
If some garlic will kill cancer, then lots of garlic will cure cancer. It's not really such a difficult leap.

Tom you demonstrate an uncanny lack on knowledge of human physiology here. As you are talking hypothetically I will answer as such:

Imagine that 5g of garlic will kill 1000 cancer cells, logic follows that if I have 10,000 cancer cells I need only eat 50g of garlic and boom! Cancer gone.

The problem with this hypothesis is that the human digestive and metabolic system is not 100% efficient; hence why circa 24 hours after eating sweetcorn the husks can clearly be seen in one's faecal output. If I ate 50g of garlic not all of it would be digested, even if I ate 5,000g I may never reach the magic 50g I required. Think of it as a ceiling; the maximum amount of any given substance that the body can absorb.

The amount of garlic needed to cure the cancer can simply fall above the amount the body can digest.

There are other variables involved in terms of things such as stomach absorption, garlic quality, etc., but these are bad arguments which do not really show any fallacy with the statement.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: devils advocate on September 22, 2017, 10:44:58 PM
They statement is theoretical which allows it to be possible. The reality of the statement is that it is not factual outside hypothesis, as in the theory doesn't actually work in practice.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: devils advocate on September 22, 2017, 10:56:33 PM
Scurvy (vitamin C deficiency) causes death. Vitamin C cures scurvy=vitamin C prevents death=vitamin C makes you immortal. Hypothetically sound, practically false.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: TaleMasterTOV on December 16, 2017, 05:41:03 PM
As a cancer survivor who discovered (too late) that my family has been living "downwind from the Cold War", let me just say that a diet is not going to stop cancer. I've been to enough support groups and talked to enough people to know that healthy people are just as at-risk as are those who indulge in unhealthy lifestyles.

That being said, I can give you night-and-day contrast in cancer survival stories from the several recent examples that were close to me.
Interestingly enough, the two factors that most obviously have a positive effect on one's treatment are:
1) Diet. Everybody who does chemo is going to lose their hair. Get over it. But the other effects of chemo can be greatly reduced by managing one's diet. And people who go into the treatment healthy are much more likely to get a "full recovery" (which is basically as close as a doctor will ever get to saying they cured you.)
2) Adherence to the medical treatment--even when it gets unpleasant. Simply put, those who didn't stick with the program and endure its unpleasantness--especially those who chose homeopathy over chemotherapy--are not around anymore to tell me how smart they were for making those choices.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Trolltrolls on February 03, 2018, 01:03:44 PM
Wut?
I mean what?
Please show your medical reports, your studies, your experiments, your rate of success.
That is what it needed before making a claim, not an anecdote from an unreliable source.
Things do have anti-cancerous properties, that's true. BUT their effect is minute and not able to cure cancer. Do you really think that scientists wouldn't have figured it out by now.
In fact, next time, do an experiment on someone you hate. We'll see how much pain and anguish that person goes through when deprived of modern medicine and subjected to a massive amount of garlic.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: StapleBattery on February 27, 2018, 02:18:50 PM
Wut?
I mean what?
Please show your medical reports, your studies, your experiments, your rate of success.
That is what it needed before making a claim, not an anecdote from an unreliable source.
Things do have anti-cancerous properties, that's true. BUT their effect is minute and not able to cure cancer. Do you really think that scientists wouldn't have figured it out by now.
In fact, next time, do an experiment on someone you hate. We'll see how much pain and anguish that person goes through when deprived of modern medicine and subjected to a massive amount of garlic.
Nice necro
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: jimbob on March 13, 2018, 02:09:47 PM
The majority of people who experience a cure from these herbal hippy remedies were most often diagnosed wrongly. A friend of mine completed his first round of chemotherapy before they realised they had made a wrong diagnosis and he didnt have cancer.
You dont trust conventional medicine but you trust conventional diagnosis? Without modern medicine, you dont know if your symptoms are cancer or some other disease and sometimes they can be wrong.
Disclaimer: This thread contains my own opinion on the possibility of cancer treatment with natural substances. Please consult a medical professional, such as a naturopathic doctor, before attempting to treat yourself or your loved ones for deadly diseases. Make sure to do a lot of research on the options available to you.

There are certain people in the world who will tell you that cancer is terrible and impossible to cure without hundreds of thousands of dollars of state of the art medical care. I am here to tell you that this is false. Curing cancer is trivial. One does not need to consult an industry which profiteers off the backs of the dying. One merely needs to consult nature, which has already provided everything we need for our survival.

Natural remedies are the best remedies because humans and their natural food sources are in symbioses. Our fruits and vegetables depend on animals to spread their seeds through their feces, and will never deliberately hurt us. In fact, they have evolved to benefit us, as we benefit them, and make sure to feed us with an assortment of vitamins and nutrition as incentive.

We also have shared enemies with the plants, such as fungus, bacteria, and viruses. Plants will also get cancer (http://www.popsci.com/article/science/ask-anything-do-plants-get-cancer), just like we do. It stands to reason, therefore, that anything a plant makes to repel those things will benefit us as well.

One such cure for cancer involves the usage of garlic and peppers, which will kill cancer cells. Consider this man, Kelley Eidem, author of The Doctor Who Cures Cancer, who cured his own Stage 4 Cancer in 2 weeks and $20:

How I Cured My Stage 4 Cancer In Two Weeks For Less Than The Cost Of A Night At The Movies (http://kelleyeidem.hubpages.com/hub/How-I-Cured-Stage-4-Cancer-in-Two-Weeks-For-Less-Than-The-Cost-Of-A-Night-At-The-Movies)

Quote
For several decades, modern medicine has tried a lot of toxic compounds, hoping to 'out-toxic' the cancer. And sure enough, the compounds did out-toxic cancer. Unfortunately, it usually out-toxics the patient as well. The result has been that cancer treatments are usually an expensive, painful and scary proposition. But you already knew that.

I didn't go bald or get sick to my stomach!

Fortunately, my Stage 4 cancer was none of the above for me. My advanced cancer treatment cost less than two tickets and popcorn at the movies. My treatment wasn't painful. And I wasn't scared...I didn't lose a minute's sleep...because I knew what to do. If we've learned anything about treating cancer in the last 50 to 60 years it has to be this: half killing the patient isn't half way successful. As I emphatically told a woman in my store recently, "You gotta be healthy to get well! In my own case, I knew by the many lesions I had that I was already sick. I didn't need someone to help make me sicker. I needed to get healthy, so I could get well.

UCLA Researchers Confirm My Method!

Maybe the best place to start with this would be to let you know that researchers at UCLA garnered lots of headlines two years ago because they had done something pretty incredible. (1) What had the UCLA researchers done? They shrank tumors by 80% with the heat from habaneros peppers. That is quite extraordinary in terms of what is usually accomplished with toxic drugs.

It's also worth noting that in the US the State of New Mexico has the lowest cancer mortality rate of all 50 states. They probably eat more peppers in New Mexico per capita than all the other states, too. In other words, the researchers at UCLA made a great choice in examining the anti-cancer properties of hot peppers.

My own success in curing myself with habaneros peppers preceded the UCLA researchers by seven years. And I didn't shrink my many tumors by 80%...I shrank them 100%. UCLA's research results did confirm that my own method was an extremely powerful weapon against cancer. I'm eternally grateful for their confirmation. But then, I used habaneros peppers PLUS two more low tech ingredients...running rings around the findings made by the UCLA guys and gals.

Here is his recipe from that link:

Quote
Here's a real brief recipe list here.

(1) Grate one habanero pepper each day, putting it on bread. Yes, you use the seeds. (2) Grate two cloves of garlic each day, putting them on bread and covering with butter. (3) One tablespoon of Emulsified cod liver oil once or twice each day.* TwinLabs makes some wonderfully flavored cod liver oil.

The cod liver oil is not put on the sandwich. One serving of the oil may be taken before or after eating the sandwich with the same meal

I used the cod liver oil because I was not losing any weight or dealing with fluid retention. If I had either of those conditions, I would have used evening primrose oil or borage oil instead of the emulsified cod liver oil, taking 6,000 mgs a day in divided doses.*

(4) Smother the grated garlic and habaneros peppers with real butter and eat it. Organic or raw butter is best. No margarines of any type, including Smart Balance, etc.

If hot peppers didn't agree with me, then ginger is what I would use - and yes I trust the ginger just as much as the habanero to do the job.

That's it!

* The best way to determine which oil I would use can be determined easily if there is pain. In fact there are two ways. One way would be to drink a cup of black coffee with two boiled eggs. (boiled only.) If that made me feel worse, I'd take 1 or 2 tablespoons of emulsified cod liver oil. If the coffee and eggs made me feel better, I'd take 6,000 mgs of borage oil or evening primrose oil.

The potent active ingredients from the peppers and the garlic disperse quickly. So they must be grated each day, and eaten immediately.

We also learn that this recipe can treat many types of cancer:

Quote
1AA - Has your recipe cured my type of cancer?

I have some great news for you. Doctors and TV have miseducated us into thinking there are over 100 types of cancer. There is only one true cancer cell. That means all true cancer cells are identical. They look different only due to the involved tissue.

Doctors call true cancer cells "highly undifferentiated." IOW, they are looking at a real cancer cell but don't know it because in their mind they think it is supposed to look different!

So you can take heart when you read about any of the accounts here. A colon cancer is a breast cancer is a leukemia etc, etc, etc. There is no difference between any of those cancers other than the involved non cancerous tissue and the surrounding pH. Yes, the cancer cells will distort the way the particular tissue or organ looks like. But the cancer is the same.

The Stage numbers given to cancer (I, II, III, IV) are merely describing how much cancer there is and how far it has spread. Staging doesn't change the nature of the actual cancer cells on iota - there are just more of them.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: isaacN on May 13, 2018, 03:54:12 PM
I think this whole thread is highly irresponsble and immoral given the numbers of people who die each day from this particular affliction. Its also massively insulting to all those who are currently enduring the various types of chemo and radiation therapies that are required.
Why i would like to see is a meta analysis of the studies that have been carried out on which the claim is based.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Boots on May 13, 2018, 11:54:30 PM
I think this whole thread is highly irresponsble and immoral given the numbers of people who die each day from this particular affliction. Its also massively insulting to all those who are currently enduring the various types of chemo and radiation therapies that are required.
Why i would like to see is a meta analysis of the studies that have been carried out on which the claim is based.
Meta analysis would be great. But the short answer is, certain dietary and lifestyle habits can give you an edge in beating and warding off cancer. A certain number of people, probably quite a small number, have possibly avoided cancer or even fought off an early, light attack by sticking to certain healthy habits.

While the thread title may contain some small element of truth, it is at best misleading and in my opinion it is false.

More accurate would be "In Some Rare Cases Some Types of Cancer May Be Cured By Maintaining Strict Adherence to Certain Lifestyle Habits"
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on May 14, 2018, 04:36:33 AM
I think this whole thread is highly irresponsble and immoral given the numbers of people who die each day from this particular affliction. Its also massively insulting to all those who are currently enduring the various types of chemo and radiation therapies that are required.
Why i would like to see is a meta analysis of the studies that have been carried out on which the claim is based.
Meta analysis would be great. But the short answer is, certain dietary and lifestyle habits can give you an edge in beating and warding off cancer. A certain number of people, probably quite a small number, have possibly avoided cancer or even fought off an early, light attack by sticking to certain healthy habits.

While the thread title may contain some small element of truth, it is at best misleading and in my opinion it is false.

More accurate would be "In Some Rare Cases Some Types of Cancer May Be Cured By Maintaining Strict Adherence to Certain Lifestyle Habits"

See this article:

http://www.wrcbtv.com/story/8919828/vitamin-c-cancer-treatment

Quote
Go home and die. that's what doctors told 59 year old Arlindo Olivera.

His lung cancer was so advanced, it had spread to his brain and doctors said there was nothing they could do.

Today, Arlindo is cancer free.

Arlindo Oliviera a Lung Cancer Survivor says "My pulmonary doctor told me, whatever you are doing, keep doing it."

Arlindo believes his cancer is gone because of vitamin C treatment.

Arlindo says "It's working on me from what the doctor says."

Dr. Scott Greenberg says he has successfully treated many people with vitamin C infusions, including Arlindo.

Stage 4 cancer is where they tell you to go home and die. You are incurable.

Are you telling me that Arlindo was coincidentally cured for reasons that have nothing to do with his alternative treatment?

Do you maintain that, despite articles like this, that naturopathic doctors who engage in these types of alternative treatments like this are frauds?
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Boots on May 14, 2018, 05:12:10 AM
I think this whole thread is highly irresponsble and immoral given the numbers of people who die each day from this particular affliction. Its also massively insulting to all those who are currently enduring the various types of chemo and radiation therapies that are required.
Why i would like to see is a meta analysis of the studies that have been carried out on which the claim is based.
Meta analysis would be great. But the short answer is, certain dietary and lifestyle habits can give you an edge in beating and warding off cancer. A certain number of people, probably quite a small number, have possibly avoided cancer or even fought off an early, light attack by sticking to certain healthy habits.

While the thread title may contain some small element of truth, it is at best misleading and in my opinion it is false.

More accurate would be "In Some Rare Cases Some Types of Cancer May Be Cured By Maintaining Strict Adherence to Certain Lifestyle Habits"
Are you telling me that Arlindo was coincidentally cured for reasons that have nothing to do with his alternative treatment?

Do you maintain that, despite articles like this, that naturopathic doctors who engage in these types of alternative treatments like this are frauds?
I am telling you that cancer is not generally easily cured with common grocery store items.

I am not commenting on any specific situation. I believe my post allowed for the fact that it could happen.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on May 14, 2018, 07:52:56 AM
People are claiming that incurable Stage 4 cancers have been cured!

Why can't you pick a side on this important matter? You need to form an opinion on the article I have posted and the many Vitamin C articles like it. Are all of the people and doctors in the articles liars or not?

The assertion of "it is possible they are liars" does not really tell us much or give us anything more to talk about. You may as well not have posted at all.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet on May 14, 2018, 11:07:53 AM
Whilst there is increasing interest in high dose Vitamin C injections in the treatment of cancer, and evidence that such high doses can be effective in some cases, the 300-400mg/100g needed to be present in the plasma can never ever, ever, ever, be reached by ingesting oranges or supplement pills, they must be administered by medical professionals observing scientific principles.

Whereas dietary supplements seem to have little effect   https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=16808775

To suggest that this line of “scientifically” generated treatment in any way backs the mumbo-jumbo assertion this thread is labelled with, would beggar belief in any other than a Tom one.   
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Boots on May 14, 2018, 12:33:51 PM
People are claiming that incurable Stage 4 cancers have been cured!

Why can't you pick a side on this important matter? You need to form an opinion on the article I have posted and the many Vitamin C articles like it. Are all of the people and doctors in the articles liars or not?

The assertion of "it is possible they are liars" does not really tell us much or give us anything more to talk about. You may as well not have posted at all.
You need to acknowledge that the title of this thread does not reflect reality.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on May 15, 2018, 07:21:13 PM
Whilst there is increasing interest in high dose Vitamin C injections in the treatment of cancer, and evidence that such high doses can be effective in some cases, the 300-400mg/100g needed to be present in the plasma can never ever, ever, ever, be reached by ingesting oranges or supplement pills, they must be administered by medical professionals observing scientific principles.

Whereas dietary supplements seem to have little effect   https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=16808775

To suggest that this line of “scientifically” generated treatment in any way backs the mumbo-jumbo assertion this thread is labelled with, would beggar belief in any other than a Tom one.

Who in the naturopathic community has ever claimed cases of cancer being cured with Vitamin C supplements? Linus Pauling was telling people about Vitamin C IV's and their treatment for cancer since the 1960's. Not one naturopathic physician treats cancer patients with Vitamin C pills.

The claim that Vitamin C pills are not effective for cancer is a bad one. No one has claimed that! Why bring it up?

The people administrating Vitamin C IVs are not your doctor or the hospital. Your doctor will never send you to get Vitamin C injections. They will send you to get chemotherapy. The only way to get Vitamin C IVs are through alternative medicine doctors like naturopathic physcians. The medical industry has known about Vitamin C IVs since the 1960's, yet they would much rather prefer you pay them tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars for chemotherapy. Vitamin C is not patentable, and is not a money maker.

Cancer drugs can be fast tracked into FDA approval in 6 months. Not Vitamin C IVs. There is no money to be made there. Who gives a F if your mother is dying of Stage 4 cancer? Not the doctors.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on May 15, 2018, 07:31:10 PM
People are claiming that incurable Stage 4 cancers have been cured!

Why can't you pick a side on this important matter? You need to form an opinion on the article I have posted and the many Vitamin C articles like it. Are all of the people and doctors in the articles liars or not?

The assertion of "it is possible they are liars" does not really tell us much or give us anything more to talk about. You may as well not have posted at all.
You need to acknowledge that the title of this thread does not reflect reality.

That is very funny when the father of medicine, Hippocrates, specifically cured people who had cancer with garlic. Look it up. Do you really think he would have been respected as "the most outstanding figure in the history of medicine" (wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocrates)) if his patients were dying all the time?

You need to trust the naturopathic physicians, not the medical establishment. The medical establishment doesn't give a flip about you or your family.

Studies do show that garlic affects cancer:

Tom you pushed a lot of "correlation equals causation" narratives in the last 2 pages. It doesn't hold together because it doesn't show that carrots/prayer/Chinese medicine could be the only cause of the change in people's condition.

The placebo effect and morale are well known to be effective but that is about patient belief in health and well-being and nothing to do with garlic/carrots/bullshit medicine.

If Garlic is complete BS, please explain the following:

http://truedemocracyparty.net/2013/11/garlic-the-natural-cure-8-scientific-studies-that-prove-garlic-kills-cancer-dead-dead-dead/

Quote
In Dr. Earl Mindell’s Garlic: The Miracle Nutrient, a 1957 study in the journal Science reported that researchers incubated sarcoma tumor cells with the garlic compound Allinase and S-ethyl-L-cysteine sulfoxide, then injected the tumor cells into mice. Tumor growth was completely inhibited and the mice survived beyond the sixth month observation period according to researchers. Mice injected with the tumor cells only (without the garlic compound), survived only 2 months.

http://www.miracleofgarlic.com/cancer-and-garlic/

Quote
The good news is research into garlic against cancer has shown positive results.  In laboratory tests with mice, garlic stabilized and actually shrunk tumors.  In mice injected with garlic extracts, tumor growth decreased by 30-50%.  In mice that were given dietary garlic, the growths decreased by 10-25%.

http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9707/21/nfm.garlic.cancer/index.html

Quote
One study, at the Mercy Cancer Institute in Pittsburgh, shows that garlic can help slow the growth of tumors.

"We have shown that some of these compounds prevent cancer in animals, and we hope that's the case in humans," said Shivendra Singh of the institute.

"We know how these garlic compounds are inhibiting cancer, but whether or not they have some kind of specificity for certain types of tumors, that remains to be seen," he said.

Other studies, some of them at West Virginia University, have found that garlic can inhibit the growth of breast cancer.

Also, says Dr. Donald Lamm of West Virginia University, "garlic very significantly reduced the growth of bladder tumors in mice."

Researchers at the university think garlic may help boost the immune system in laboratory mice, thereby reducing the growth of cancerous cells.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Boots on May 15, 2018, 07:38:07 PM
People are claiming that incurable Stage 4 cancers have been cured!

Why can't you pick a side on this important matter? You need to form an opinion on the article I have posted and the many Vitamin C articles like it. Are all of the people and doctors in the articles liars or not?

The assertion of "it is possible they are liars" does not really tell us much or give us anything more to talk about. You may as well not have posted at all.
You need to acknowledge that the title of this thread does not reflect reality.
Do you really think he would have been respected as a father of medicine if his patients were dying all the time?
What I really think is that cancer is not generally easily cured with common grocery store items.

And I don't think that you have made a convincing case that cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items.

 
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on May 15, 2018, 09:00:25 PM
What I really think is that cancer is not generally easily cured with common grocery store items.

Hippocrates cured cancers with garlic, and he is regarded as the father of medicine and as the most outstanding figure in medicine. Where are the articles showing that he was a fraud and his patients died because of his poor recommendations?

"Hippocrates recommended crushed garlic to his patients in large amounts to cure their cancer." (naturalnews.com (https://www.naturalnews.com/044329_beating_cancer_garlic_alliums.html))

"The Greek physician, Hippocrates, recommended garlic for pulmonary conditions, sores and cancer. Garlic was also held in high esteem by the medical practitioners of ancient India, Rome, Assyria and China" (spiritfoods.net (http://spiritfoods.net/health-benefits-of-garlic/))

"Garlic is a member of the lily family, similar to the onion. It’s been used for thousands of years as a medicinal herb; in fact, Hippocrates used garlic for infections, cancer and digestive disorders." (dirtdoctor.com (https://www.dirtdoctor.com/garden/Garlic-Good-for-Bad-for-your-Dog_vq12833.htm))

The word cancer even originates with Hippocrates:

"The origin of the word cancer is credited to the Greek physician Hippocrates (460-370 BC), who is considered the “Father of Medicine.” Hippocrates used the terms carcinos and carcinoma to describe non-ulcer forming and ulcer-forming tumors." (cancer.org (https://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancer-basics/history-of-cancer/what-is-cancer.html))

https://juicing-for-health.com/plant-kills-14-cancers-13-infections

Quote
Garlic Could Prevent Millions Of Deaths

A quick perusal of a literature provided by the National Library of Medicine, contains 4525 study abstracts on garlic (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=Allium+sativum) indicates that garlic has a significant role to play in preventing or treating well over 150 health conditions, ranging from cancer to diabetes, infection to plaque buildup in the arteries, DNA damage to mercury poisoning!

All liars, right?

How have you concluded that that Hippocrates was a fraud who didn't cure people of cancer, anyway?
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on May 15, 2018, 09:10:55 PM
In my post before last there were animal studies showing that cancer was reversed when fed garlic. Why not humans as well?

There is clearly significant evidence that it is possible for garlic to treat cancer. Why should we throw away accounts of naturopathic physicians like Hippocrates curing cancers with garlic?

Arguing against the cancer curing properties of garlic is getting ridiculous at this point. Just because doctors have a low success rate of curing cancers with their drugs and chemotherapies, that therefore makes naturopathic physicians like Hippocrates and others frauds? Is that the reasoning here?
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Boots on May 15, 2018, 09:18:05 PM
What I really think is that cancer is not generally easily cured with common grocery store items.

How have you concluded that that Hippocrates was a fraud who didn't cure people of cancer, anyway?
Garlic is great and good for your health and most likely has cancer fighting properties! Hippocrates was great and I have not concluded he is a fraud.

What I have concluded is that "Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items" is a misleading and inaccurate statement.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on May 15, 2018, 09:23:33 PM
What I really think is that cancer is not generally easily cured with common grocery store items.

How have you concluded that that Hippocrates was a fraud who didn't cure people of cancer, anyway?
Garlic is great and good for your health and most likely has cancer fighting properties! Hippocrates was great and I have not concluded he is a fraud.

What I have concluded is that "Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items" is a misleading and inaccurate statement.

Garlic is a grocery store item. Hippocrates cured people with cancers with crushed garlic. If you agree with the accounts that cancers have been reversed with garlic, then you are agreeing that cancer has been treated with a grocery store item.

If you do not agree with those accounts, then you are calling Hippocrates and others frauds, which needs explaining.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Rama Set on May 15, 2018, 09:27:47 PM
What I really think is that cancer is not generally easily cured with common grocery store items.

How have you concluded that that Hippocrates was a fraud who didn't cure people of cancer, anyway?
Garlic is great and good for your health and most likely has cancer fighting properties! Hippocrates was great and I have not concluded he is a fraud.

What I have concluded is that "Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items" is a misleading and inaccurate statement.

Garlic is a grocery store item. Hippocrates cured people with cancers with crushed garlic. If you agree the accounts that cancers have been reversed with garlic, then you are agreeing that cancer has been treated with a grocery store item.

If you do not agree with those accounts, then you are calling Hippocrates and others frauds, which needs explaining.

Tom where are the scientific papers we can reference to back up your claim?
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on May 15, 2018, 09:50:06 PM
Tom where are the scientific papers we can reference to back up your claim?

There are plenty of scientific papers which back up the many wonderful abilities of garlic. In my last few posts on this page I posted a link to a database with thousands of them, as well as specifically quoting studies showing that cancers have been reversed in animals. Natural physcians like Hippocrates are well regarded to have cured cancers with garlic.

Do you think that the drug companies would fund large human trials with garlic? They don't do that with Vitamin C IVs. Neither Garlic or Vitamin C is patentable. The law says that things which occur naturally and are found in nature are not patentable. There is no money to be made by promoting use of those things.

You guys are implying that the father of medicine was a fraud, and you really need to support this rather serious accusation.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Rama Set on May 15, 2018, 11:05:38 PM
Tom where are the scientific papers we can reference to back up your claim?

There are plenty of scientific papers which back up the many wonderful abilities of garlic. In my last few posts on this page I posted a link to a database with thousands of them, as well as specifically quoting studies showing that cancers have been reversed in animals. Natural physcians like Hippocrates are well regarded to have cured cancers with garlic.

Do you think that the drug companies would fund large human trials with garlic? They don't do that with Vitamin C IVs. Neither Garlic or Vitamin C is patentable. The law says that things which occur naturally and are found in nature are not patentable. There is no money to be made by promoting use of those things.

You guys are implying that the father of medicine was a fraud, and you really need to support this rather serious accusation.

No thats you shamelessly putting words in people's mouthes like you always do because you are utterly unethical.  Unless I am mistaken, you support skepticism.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on May 16, 2018, 12:06:21 AM
No thats you shamelessly putting words in people's mouthes like you always do because you are utterly unethical.  Unless I am mistaken, you support skepticism.

How would Hippocrates lieing about curing people with cancer not be fraudulent? You need to explain what is happening there. Hippocrates and other naturopathic doctors have claimed to cure cancers with garlic.

You need to either agree with it or call Hippocrates, who is considered the father of medicine and the most outstanding figure in the history of medicine, a fraud.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Boots on May 16, 2018, 01:32:12 AM
What I really think is that cancer is not generally easily cured with common grocery store items.

How have you concluded that that Hippocrates was a fraud who didn't cure people of cancer, anyway?
Garlic is great and good for your health and most likely has cancer fighting properties! Hippocrates was great and I have not concluded he is a fraud.

What I have concluded is that "Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items" is a misleading and inaccurate statement.

Garlic is a grocery store item. Hippocrates cured people with cancers with crushed garlic. If you agree with the accounts that cancers have been reversed with garlic, then you are agreeing that cancer has been treated with a grocery store item.

If you do not agree with those accounts, then you are calling Hippocrates and others frauds, which needs explaining.
I do not agree that it is accurate to say that cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items.

Hippocrates did not say that cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items.

As far as I know you are the only one stating that.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on May 16, 2018, 02:27:48 AM
What I really think is that cancer is not generally easily cured with common grocery store items.

How have you concluded that that Hippocrates was a fraud who didn't cure people of cancer, anyway?
Garlic is great and good for your health and most likely has cancer fighting properties! Hippocrates was great and I have not concluded he is a fraud.

What I have concluded is that "Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items" is a misleading and inaccurate statement.

Garlic is a grocery store item. Hippocrates cured people with cancers with crushed garlic. If you agree with the accounts that cancers have been reversed with garlic, then you are agreeing that cancer has been treated with a grocery store item.

If you do not agree with those accounts, then you are calling Hippocrates and others frauds, which needs explaining.
I do not agree that it is accurate to say that cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items.

Hippocrates did not say that cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items.

As far as I know you are the only one stating that.

Hippocrates said that cancer is cured with crushed garlic. Garlic is a grocery store item.

Which sentence do you disagree with? Does your grocery store not carry garlic?
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Rama Set on May 16, 2018, 04:48:35 AM
No thats you shamelessly putting words in people's mouthes like you always do because you are utterly unethical.  Unless I am mistaken, you support skepticism.

How would Hippocrates lieing about curing people with cancer not be fraudulent? You need to explain what is happening there. Hippocrates and other naturopathic doctors have claimed to cure cancers with garlic.

You need to either agree with it or call Hippocrates, who is considered the father of medicine and the most outstanding figure in the history of medicine, a fraud.

No, that is just you being dishonest again.  No one here has said that he was lieing.  Stop making things up.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Boots on May 16, 2018, 05:58:03 AM
What I really think is that cancer is not generally easily cured with common grocery store items.

How have you concluded that that Hippocrates was a fraud who didn't cure people of cancer, anyway?
Garlic is great and good for your health and most likely has cancer fighting properties! Hippocrates was great and I have not concluded he is a fraud.

What I have concluded is that "Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items" is a misleading and inaccurate statement.

Garlic is a grocery store item. Hippocrates cured people with cancers with crushed garlic. If you agree with the accounts that cancers have been reversed with garlic, then you are agreeing that cancer has been treated with a grocery store item.

If you do not agree with those accounts, then you are calling Hippocrates and others frauds, which needs explaining.
I do not agree that it is accurate to say that cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items.

Hippocrates did not say that cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items.

As far as I know you are the only one stating that.

Hippocrates said that cancer is cured with crushed garlic. Garlic is a grocery store item.

Which sentence do you disagree with? Does your grocery store not carry garlic?
Hippocrates did not state that cancer is easily cured with garlic. If he did, he made a misleading statement at best. It is not accurate to say that cancer is easily cured with garlic.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on May 16, 2018, 07:26:03 AM
Hippocrates did recommend and prescribe garlic for cancer. The entire world is against you.

"Allium sativum (Garlic) has been used for thousands of years to treat various diseases. The earliest use of Allium sativum as a medicine has been recorded in ancient Egypt, Greece, India, China, Rome, Russia and Europe. Hippocrates was the first to recommend its use for cancer."  (Researchgate.net (https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Ashu_Mittal/publication/262007412_Role_of_herbals_in_cancer_management/links/00b4953648ed6a6b32000000/Role-of-herbals-in-cancer-management.pdf))

"Hippocrates recommended crushed garlic to his patients in large amounts to cure their cancer" (naturalnews.com (https://www.naturalnews.com/044329_beating_cancer_garlic_alliums.html))

"However, the theraputic value of garlic was already recognized since, Hippocrates (460-357 B.C.) perscribed eating garlic in uterine tumors" (The Sitech Journal (http://thescitech.com/admin/includes/abstractpdf/2014-9-05536cdd2c1d2a2.pdf))

"Medicinal use of garlic has been known for over 3000 years. Already Hippocrates prescribed it for the treatment of cervical cancer" (doctorsbeyondmedicine.com (http://www.doctorsbeyondmedicine.com/listing/garlic))

"Hippocrates, the famous Greek physician, prescribed eating garlic as treatment for cancers." (truedemocracyparty.net (http://truedemocracyparty.net/2013/01/garlic-natural-cancer-killer-and-prevention-studies-demonstrating-the-effects-of-garlic-to-treat-and-cure-cancer-including-brain-tumors/))

"Hippocrates prescribed garlic for protecting the skin against toxins or treating abdominal tumors" (healthfreedoms.org (http://www.healthfreedoms.org/garlics-allicin-is-a-major-disease-fighter-of-cancer-heart-disease-and-cognitive-decline/))

"The Greek physician, Hippocrates, recommended garlic for pulmonary conditions, sores, and cancer." (Evidence-based Anticancer Materia Medica (https://books.google.com/books?id=Msr6HCbh0dQC&lpg=PA194&ots=zegq99eiRe&dq=Hippocrates%20prescribed%20garlic%20for%20protecting%20the%20skin%20against%20toxins%20or%20treating%20abdominal%20tumors&pg=PA194#v=onepage&q=Hippocrates%20prescribed%20garlic%20for%20protecting%20the%20skin%20against%20toxins%20or%20treating%20abdominal%20tumors&f=false))

A testimonial from The Monthly Literary and Scientific Lecturer (https://books.google.com/books?id=wpXD3gGz6SMC&dq=Hippocrates%20cancer%20garlic&pg=PP41#v=onepage&q=Hippocrates%20cancer%20garlic&f=false) ---

Quote
Lecture on "The Origin and Progress of Medicine - the different Systems, &c."
By Dr. J. Caplin, Manchester

...

I knew a lady some years ago, who had a cancer in her breast; and, after many consultations, it was thought that there was no remedy for it but by extraction by the knife. She went to Paris, and met with the same opinion; but before submitting to the operation, she resolved to consult the sisters of the convent of the Cacre Coeur de Jesus; and those Hippocratic women doctors took her under their treatment and cured her. The recipe consisted of herbs, milk, and flour boiled together, and applied as a poultice, morning and evening. So this dreadful disorder, which baffled scientific knowledge, yielded to the therapeutics of Hippocrates.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Rama Set on May 16, 2018, 12:15:59 PM
Hippocrates did recommend and prescribe garlic for cancer. The entire world is against you.

"Allium sativum (Garlic) has been used for thousands of years to treat various diseases. The earliest use of Allium sativum as a medicine has been recorded in ancient Egypt, Greece, India, China, Rome, Russia and Europe. Hippocrates was the first to recommend its use for cancer."  (Researchgate.net (https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Ashu_Mittal/publication/262007412_Role_of_herbals_in_cancer_management/links/00b4953648ed6a6b32000000/Role-of-herbals-in-cancer-management.pdf))

"Hippocrates recommended crushed garlic to his patients in large amounts to cure their cancer" (naturalnews.com (https://www.naturalnews.com/044329_beating_cancer_garlic_alliums.html))

"However, the theraputic value of garlic was already recognized since, Hippocrates (460-357 B.C.) perscribed eating garlic in uterine tumors" (The Sitech Journal (http://thescitech.com/admin/includes/abstractpdf/2014-9-05536cdd2c1d2a2.pdf))

"Medicinal use of garlic has been known for over 3000 years. Already Hippocrates prescribed it for the treatment of cervical cancer" (doctorsbeyondmedicine.com (http://www.doctorsbeyondmedicine.com/listing/garlic))

"Hippocrates, the famous Greek physician, prescribed eating garlic as treatment for cancers." (truedemocracyparty.net (http://truedemocracyparty.net/2013/01/garlic-natural-cancer-killer-and-prevention-studies-demonstrating-the-effects-of-garlic-to-treat-and-cure-cancer-including-brain-tumors/))

"Hippocrates prescribed garlic for protecting the skin against toxins or treating abdominal tumors" (healthfreedoms.org (http://www.healthfreedoms.org/garlics-allicin-is-a-major-disease-fighter-of-cancer-heart-disease-and-cognitive-decline/))

"The Greek physician, Hippocrates, recommended garlic for pulmonary conditions, sores, and cancer." (Evidence-based Anticancer Materia Medica (https://books.google.com/books?id=Msr6HCbh0dQC&lpg=PA194&ots=zegq99eiRe&dq=Hippocrates%20prescribed%20garlic%20for%20protecting%20the%20skin%20against%20toxins%20or%20treating%20abdominal%20tumors&pg=PA194#v=onepage&q=Hippocrates%20prescribed%20garlic%20for%20protecting%20the%20skin%20against%20toxins%20or%20treating%20abdominal%20tumors&f=false))

A testimonial from The Monthly Literary and Scientific Lecturer (https://books.google.com/books?id=wpXD3gGz6SMC&dq=Hippocrates%20cancer%20garlic&pg=PP41#v=onepage&q=Hippocrates%20cancer%20garlic&f=false) ---

Quote
Lecture on "The Origin and Progress of Medicine - the different Systems, &c."
By Dr. J. Caplin, Manchester

...

I knew a lady some years ago, who had a cancer in her breast; and, after many consultations, it was thought that there was no remedy for it but by extraction by the knife. She went to Paris, and met with the same opinion; but before submitting to the operation, she resolved to consult the sisters of the convent of the Cacre Coeur de Jesus; and those Hippocratic women doctors took her under their treatment and cured her. The recipe consisted of herbs, milk, and flour boiled together, and applied as a poultice, morning and evening. So this dreadful disorder, which baffled scientific knowledge, yielded to the therapeutics of Hippocrates.

A bunch of blogs on the internet who all reference each other does not qualify as “the world”. Where does it say he was successful in treating the patients? I would like to read that source too.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet on May 16, 2018, 03:06:04 PM

So, you would expect those countries that consumed the most garlic to have the lowest cancer rates?

China for instance eats 13.55kg/yr/capita against a global average of 1kg, and they love “traditional” medicine, however, look at the global cancer map (  http://globalcancermap.com/) and China has one of the highest rates of stomach cancer in the world, hey other factors, maybe Rhino horn isn’t that good.

My main problem is the hippyish, plants are our friends new age of Aquarius gibberish you wrap this with.
 
Tom Quote;
“Natural remedies are the best remedies because humans and their natural food sources are in symbioses. Our fruits and vegetables depend on animals to spread their seeds through their faeces and will never deliberately hurt us.”

I can only assume this is a gigantic joke on your part.

1 potato “The humans are our friends”
2 potato “But the bastards just ate 3 potato 4, I’m going green to make them sick”
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Boots on May 16, 2018, 03:17:24 PM
Hippocrates did recommend and prescribe garlic for cancer. The entire world is against you.
Recommending and prescribing garlic for cancer =/= Stating that cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items

SMH
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on May 16, 2018, 06:02:19 PM

So, you would expect those countries that consumed the most garlic to have the lowest cancer rates?

Hippocrates and other nautopaths had their patients eat a truly massive amount of garlic in their prescriptions. I am not sure that such statistics would tell us anything.

If you actually followed the types of instructions Hippocrates gave you, you would absolutely reek of garlic through every pore of your body. Your breath would smell of it. Your body would smell of it. No one would want to be around you, and you would not even want to be around yourself. You would have to isolate yourself from society until you were cured.

This is actually the reason why in nauturopathic circles solutions such as Vitamin C IVs are more popular for treating cancer these days, despite the cheapness and availability of garlic. The whole heavy powerful herb approach has its social drawbacks. There are no such stigmatizing side effects with the Vitamin C IVs.

Hippocrates did recommend and prescribe garlic for cancer. The entire world is against you.
Recommending and prescribing garlic for cancer =/= Stating that cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items

SMH

Hippocrates is originator of the phrase "Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food." Translation: The key to good health is found in the grocery store. Choose your food wisely and eat well.

I just posted a testimony by a doctor who stated that their patient was cured of breast cancer by following the therapeutics of Hippocrates. There are hundreds of references online stating that he treated people with cancer with garlic and other grocery store items.

I have shown you scientific studies showing that animals have been cured of cancer by feeding them garlic. What more is there to discuss? You aren't even attempting to combat those articles to show that those animals were not really cured of cancer, or that the woman with breast cancer was not really cured by following the therapeutics of Hippocrates. You aren't even attempting to rebut the many scientific articles which show that garlic has anti-cancer effects. The effort you are putting into your position is terrible.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Rama Set on May 16, 2018, 06:19:33 PM

I just posted a testimony by a doctor who stated that their patient was cured of breast cancer by following the therapeutics of Hippocrates.

Oh wow an anecdote, so convincing.

Quote
There are hundreds of references online stating that he treated people with cancer with garlic and other grocery store items.

Oh wow, anecdotes from the internet, even more convincing.

I have shown you scientific studies showing that animals have been cured of cancer by feeding them garlic. What more is there to discuss?
[/quote]

We should discuss where we can find evidence that it works on humans.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Boots on May 16, 2018, 06:20:36 PM

So, you would expect those countries that consumed the most garlic to have the lowest cancer rates?

Hippocrates and other nautopaths had their patients eat a truly massive amount of garlic in their prescriptions. I am not sure that such statistics would tell us anything.

If you actually followed the types of instructions Hippocrates gave you, you would absolutely reek of garlic through every pore of your body. Your breath would smell of it. Your body would smell of it. No one would want to be around you, and you would not even want to be around yourself. You would have to isolate yourself from society until you were cured.

This is actually the reason why in nauturopathic circles solutions such as Vitamin C IVs are more popular for treating cancer these days, despite the cheapness and availability of garlic. The whole heavy powerful herb approach has its social drawbacks. There are no such stigmatizing side effects with the Vitamin C IVs.

Hippocrates did recommend and prescribe garlic for cancer. The entire world is against you.
Recommending and prescribing garlic for cancer =/= Stating that cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items

SMH

Hippocrates is originator of the phrase "Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food." Translation: The key to good health is found in the grocery store. Choose your food wisely and eat well.

I just posted a testimony by a doctor who stated that their patient was cured of breast cancer by following the therapeutics of Hippocrates. There are hundreds of references online stating that he treated people with cancer with garlic and other grocery store items.

I have shown you scientific studies showing that animals have been cured of cancer by feeding them garlic. What more is there to discuss?
The fact that it does not follow from your studies or testimonials that cancer is easily cured. Not by grocery store items or any other known remedy.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on May 16, 2018, 06:23:56 PM
We should discuss where we can find evidence that it works on humans.

Is Hippocrates famous for curing illnesses in dogs? I'm petty sure people would know if his therapeutics did not work. You don't become father of medicine and the greatest figure in the history of medicine if your patients were known for dying all the time. Where are those anti-Hippocrates articles?

You are backed into a corner. Your argument is bad. There are thousands of university studies into garlic which say that garlic is anti-cancer. Why can't we find studies saying that garlic does nothing for cancer? The evidence is entirely on the naturopathic side. Entirely.

Quote
The fact that it does not follow from your studies or testimonials that cancer is easily cured. Not by grocery store items or any other known remedy.]The fact that it does not follow from your studies or testimonials that cancer is easily cured. Not by grocery store items or any other known remedy.

You are not even attempting a rebuttal of the university cancer studies with animals, which showed that cancer was reversed.

Do you know how much funding is required for human trials? A lot. Do you know how much paperwork and procedures there are with the government? A lot. They will deny your trial for any reason at all, especially since the drug companies are in control, and they don't like competition.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Rama Set on May 16, 2018, 06:34:58 PM
We should discuss where we can find evidence that it works on humans.

Is Hippocrates famous for curing illnesses in dogs?

Nice straw man.

Quote
I'm petty sure people would know if his therapeutics did not work.


The 4 humors system of medicine was left behind a long time ago for this reason.

Quote
You don't become father of medicine and the greatest figure in the history of medicine if your patients were known for dying all the time.

He is the father of medicine mostly because of his ethics in medicine and his practice of using rationality and observation.

Quote
Where are those anti-Hippocrates articles?

Nice straw man.  Hippocrates contributed quite a lot to medicine, but not unlike Newton, that doesn't mean he was right about everything.  We don't have to disparage his contribution to realize we know more now than we did then.

Quote
You are backed into a corner. Your argument is bad. There are thousands of university studies into garlic which say that garlic is anti-cancer. Why can't we find studies saying that garlic does nothing for cancer? The evidence is entirely on my side. Entirely.

No one said that cancer does not have positive benefits in fighting cancer.  Your assertion that it is a miracle cure, citing a 2,000 year old physician with no statistics on his work is the laughable part.  Again:

Recommending and prescribing garlic for cancer =/= Stating that cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items

Stop putting words in people's mouthes if you can restrain yourself from being entrenched in your biases for a few moments.

Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Rama Set on May 16, 2018, 06:44:43 PM
He is an article that dispels the myth of Hippocrates are the source of all the acts and writings that we attribute to him.

https://theconversation.com/hippocrates-didnt-write-the-oath-so-why-is-he-the-father-of-medicine-32334

In fact it is widely accepted that Hippocrates did not write the oath, no text in the hippocratic corpus can definitely be attributed to him and it is more likely that these texts were assembled over a few centuries by various people.  Some historians have identified as many as 19 authors involved in the Hippocratic corpus.  So... you can kindly refrain from pushing your argument from authority, thanks.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Boots on May 16, 2018, 08:03:24 PM
We should discuss where we can find evidence that it works on humans.

Is Hippocrates famous for curing illnesses in dogs? I'm petty sure people would know if his therapeutics did not work. You don't become father of medicine and the greatest figure in the history of medicine if your patients were known for dying all the time. Where are those anti-Hippocrates articles?

You are backed into a corner. Your argument is bad. There are thousands of university studies into garlic which say that garlic is anti-cancer. Why can't we find studies saying that garlic does nothing for cancer? The evidence is entirely on the naturopathic side. Entirely.

Quote
The fact that it does not follow from your studies or testimonials that cancer is easily cured. Not by grocery store items or any other known remedy.]The fact that it does not follow from your studies or testimonials that cancer is easily cured. Not by grocery store items or any other known remedy.

You are not even attempting a rebuttal of the university cancer studies with animals, which showed that cancer was reversed.


Exactly. My claim is that cancer is not easily cured with common grocery store items. That's what I'm defending. It does not follow from the studies you've presented that cancer is easily cured - by garlic or any other method. What need for further rebuttal?
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on May 16, 2018, 09:45:31 PM
Do you think that anyone can just test things on humans without going through the government first? That is highly illegal. That is not easy or cheap to do. The drug companies aren't going to do it, or allow it, since they are very entwined with the FDA. It threatens their business model and no profit is involved for any drug company.

Naturopathic doctors are only legally able to help you because they are technically just giving you the idea you try it yourself, and the law can't limit free speech. They legally cannot prescribe a medical course of treatment or run experiments on people.

The fact that people are claiming to have their cancers cured with such things as garlic, that we read about Hippocrates curing people with garlic, a testimonial of people having their cancers cured when following Hippocrate's therapies, that we see studies showing that cancers have been reversed in animals, and databases with thousands of studies showing anti-cancer effects, is all cumulative evidence. You are increasingly needing to provide more evidence that it is all illegitimate.

Quote
He is an article that dispels the myth of Hippocrates are the source of all the acts and writings that we attribute to him.

https://theconversation.com/hippocrates-didnt-write-the-oath-so-why-is-he-the-father-of-medicine-32334

In fact it is widely accepted that Hippocrates did not write the oath, no text in the hippocratic corpus can definitely be attributed to him and it is more likely that these texts were assembled over a few centuries by various people.  Some historians have identified as many as 19 authors involved in the Hippocratic corpus.  So... you can kindly refrain from pushing your argument from authority, thanks.

What kind of diversion is this? Where did anyone say that Hippocrates wrote the Hippocratic Oath? Pointing out someone's misconception does not prove that Hippocrates was a fraud, or that he never treated people with cancer.

If I swear an oath to God, does it imply that God wrote that oath? Ridiculous diversion.

Per your mention of the hippocratic corpus, it says right on the Wikipedia page that it is authored by a bunch of different people who liked Hippocrates. Who is attributing it to Hippocrates?
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Boots on May 17, 2018, 03:42:20 AM
You are increasingly needing to provide evidence that a sweeping statement like "Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items" is realistic.

In fact, cancer is not easily cured. It is exceptionally difficult to cure.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on May 17, 2018, 04:06:24 AM
You are increasingly needing to provide evidence that a sweeping statement like "Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items" is realistic.

In fact, cancer is not easily cured. It is exceptionally difficult to cure.

You are just stating words whereas I am giving examples and citing studies.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Boots on May 17, 2018, 04:49:34 AM
But the examples and studies do not support the statement that cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items. Therefore, you should retract it.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on May 17, 2018, 07:51:19 PM
Cancer was reversed in animals in scientific studies. See the links I posted.

Strictly speaking, "Cancer is easily cured with grocery store items" has already been demonstrated from that alone.

You are providing no counter evidence to your position, just some statements.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Boots on May 17, 2018, 07:57:32 PM
Some types of cancer have been cured =/= Cancer is easily cured.

I absolutely agree with the former but disagree that the latter is in any way an accurate reflection of reality.

BTW I'm a fan of maintaining good health through diet and exercise. I don't disagree with the idea of eating foods that discourage cancer. At all. 
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Boots on May 18, 2018, 12:43:35 PM
I think this whole thread is highly irresponsble and immoral given the numbers of people who die each day from this particular affliction. Its also massively insulting to all those who are currently enduring the various types of chemo and radiation therapies that are required.
Why i would like to see is a meta analysis of the studies that have been carried out on which the claim is based.
Meta analysis would be great. But the short answer is, certain dietary and lifestyle habits can give you an edge in beating and warding off cancer. A certain number of people, probably quite a small number, have possibly avoided cancer or even fought off an attack by sticking to certain healthy habits.

While the thread title may contain some small element of truth, it is at best misleading and in my opinion it is false.

More accurate would be "In Some Rare Cases Some Types of Cancer May Be Cured By Maintaining Strict Adherence to Certain Lifestyle Habits"
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet on May 18, 2018, 02:17:19 PM

So, you would expect those countries that consumed the most garlic to have the lowest cancer rates?

Hippocrates and other nautopaths had their patients eat a truly massive amount of garlic in their prescriptions. I am not sure that such statistics would tell us anything.

If you actually followed the types of instructions Hippocrates gave you, you would absolutely reek of garlic through every pore of your body. Your breath would smell of it. Your body would smell of it. No one would want to be around you, and you would not even want to be around yourself. You would have to isolate yourself from society until you were cured.

This is actually the reason why in nauturopathic circles solutions such as Vitamin C IVs are more popular for treating cancer these days, despite the cheapness and availability of garlic. The whole heavy powerful herb approach has its social drawbacks. There are no such stigmatizing side effects with the Vitamin C IVs.



So these wonder drugs we should get from the grocers, don't work in low doses, even at 13 times the average, you had better not tell that to the Homoeopaths. 
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: rabinoz on May 19, 2018, 12:12:34 PM
So these wonder drugs we should get from the grocers, don't work in low doses, even at 13 times the average, you had better not tell that to the Homoeopaths.
True story.
Quote
Sock horror in homeopathic cholera statistics
This is the second paragraph from Ben Goldacre’s recent comment piece Benefits and risks of homeopathy in The Lancet’s November 17 edition.
              During the cholera epidemic in the 19th century, death rates at the London Homoeopathic Hospital were three times lower than those at the Middlesex Hospital. (6) The reason for homoeopathy’s success in this epidemic is even more interesting than the placebo effect. At the time, nobody could treat cholera, and while medical treatments such as blood-letting were actively harmful, the homoeopaths’ treatments were at least inert.

(6) Hempel S. The medical detective. London, UK: Granta Books, 2006

From: Laughing my socks off … A weblog about science, homeopathy and spin. And socks. (https://laughingmysocksoff.wordpress.com/2007/11/27/sock-horror-in-cholera-statistics/)
Back then homoeopathy did nothing, which was less harmful than the then current "mainstream" medical treatments.
And today, as then, homoeopathy does no good apart from being a very effective placebo for believers and a very effective money spinner for the practitioner.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: BillO on August 01, 2018, 11:23:21 PM
More dribble from the king of dribble.

I go through about 5 garlic bulbs a week as well as ounces of garlic powder and have capsaicin at every meal.  I love hot food and sometimes eat a fistful of pickled garlic for a snack.  Rather than sugar, which i don't eat, I even put garlic, chilies, black pepper and cumin in my oatmeal then put an over-easy egg on it.  Thing about garlick is, once you get acclimated to it, you stop stinking of it.  Your body just be gets better at breaking it down a metabolizing it.

This is not a fad thing I got onto by myself either.  I lived in Africa for 6 years and both my parents lived in India (and of course Africa) for years.  This is the way I've always done it, the way of my upbringing.  My Mother who also ate garlic like it was popcorn died of cancer around the time this hokum post got started.  Diffuse large B-cell lymphoma.  Not a nice way to go.

Tom, pray you don't get cancer.  All the garlic and chili peppers in the world are not going to save you.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Rama Set on August 01, 2018, 11:44:15 PM
More dribble from the king of dribble.

I go through about 5 garlic bulbs a week as well as ounces of garlic powder and have capsaicin at every meal.  I love hot food and sometimes eat a fistful of pickled garlic for a snack.  Rather than sugar, which i don't eat, I even put garlic, chilies, black pepper and cumin in my oatmeal then put an over-easy egg on it.  Thing about garlick is, once you get acclimated to it, you stop stinking of it.  Your body just be gets better at breaking it down a metabolizing it.

This is not a fad thing I got onto by myself either.  I lived in Africa for 6 years and both my parents lived in India (and of course Africa) for years.  This is the way I've always done it, the way of my upbringing.  My Mother who also ate garlic like it was popcorn died of cancer around the time this hokum post got started.  Diffuse large B-cell lymphoma.  Not a nice way to go.

Tom, pray you don't get cancer.  All the garlic and chili peppers in the world are not going to save you.

BillO, you know perfectly well thats an anecdote and is no better than anything Tom has posted.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: BillO on August 02, 2018, 12:02:13 AM
Yes, you are right.  To everyone else it is just an anecdote, but to me it's my experience.

Sorry, I've really nothing else except my experience on this.  I'm neither an oncologist, a herbalist or a connoisseur of wild conspiracies.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on August 02, 2018, 12:38:15 AM
I have posted numerous university studies which say that cancer was reversed in animals via garlic. Are the universities lying?

Tom you pushed a lot of "correlation equals causation" narratives in the last 2 pages. It doesn't hold together because it doesn't show that carrots/prayer/Chinese medicine could be the only cause of the change in people's condition.

The placebo effect and morale are well known to be effective but that is about patient belief in health and well-being and nothing to do with garlic/carrots/bullshit medicine.

If Garlic is complete BS, please explain the following:

http://truedemocracyparty.net/2013/11/garlic-the-natural-cure-8-scientific-studies-that-prove-garlic-kills-cancer-dead-dead-dead/

Quote
In Dr. Earl Mindell’s Garlic: The Miracle Nutrient, a 1957 study in the journal Science reported that researchers incubated sarcoma tumor cells with the garlic compound Allinase and S-ethyl-L-cysteine sulfoxide, then injected the tumor cells into mice. Tumor growth was completely inhibited and the mice survived beyond the sixth month observation period according to researchers. Mice injected with the tumor cells only (without the garlic compound), survived only 2 months.

http://www.miracleofgarlic.com/cancer-and-garlic/

Quote
The good news is research into garlic against cancer has shown positive results.  In laboratory tests with mice, garlic stabilized and actually shrunk tumors.  In mice injected with garlic extracts, tumor growth decreased by 30-50%.  In mice that were given dietary garlic, the growths decreased by 10-25%.

http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9707/21/nfm.garlic.cancer/index.html

Quote
One study, at the Mercy Cancer Institute in Pittsburgh, shows that garlic can help slow the growth of tumors.

"We have shown that some of these compounds prevent cancer in animals, and we hope that's the case in humans," said Shivendra Singh of the institute.

"We know how these garlic compounds are inhibiting cancer, but whether or not they have some kind of specificity for certain types of tumors, that remains to be seen," he said.

Other studies, some of them at West Virginia University, have found that garlic can inhibit the growth of breast cancer.

Also, says Dr. Donald Lamm of West Virginia University, "garlic very significantly reduced the growth of bladder tumors in mice."

Researchers at the university think garlic may help boost the immune system in laboratory mice, thereby reducing the growth of cancerous cells.

More Animal Studies:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3632025/

Quote
Conclusions:

Administration of AGE (aged garlic extract ) resulted in improved immune responses against experimentally implanted fibrosarcoma tumors in BALB/c mice. AGE showed significant effects on inhibition of tumor growth and longevity of survival times.

Garlic as compared to the chemotherapy drug Cisplatin for treating cancer:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29595070

Quote
The Anticancer Effects of Garlic Extracts on Bladder Cancer Compared to Cisplatin

Abstract

Although garlic induces apoptosis in cancer cells, it is unclear whether the effects are similar to those of cisplatin against bladder cancer (BC). Therefore, this study investigated whether garlic extracts and cisplatin show similar activity when used to treat BC. The effect of garlic on T24 BC cell line was examined in a BALB/C-nude mouse xenograft model and compared with that of cisplatin. Tissue microarray analysis and gene network analysis were performed to identify differences in gene expression by control tumors and tumors exposed to garlic extract or cisplatin. Investigation of gene expression based on tissues from 165 BC patients and normal controls was then performed to identify common targets of garlic and cisplatin. Tumor volume and tumor weight in cisplatin (0.05[Formula: see text]mg/kg)- and garlic-treated mice were significantly smaller than those in negative control mice. However, cisplatin-treated mice also showed a significant reduction in body weight. Microarray analysis of tumor tissue identified 515 common anticancer genes in the garlic and cisplatin groups ([Formula: see text]). Gene network analysis of 252 of these genes using the Cytoscape and ClueGo software packages mapped 17 genes and 9 gene ontologies to gene networks. BC (NMIBC and MIBC) patients with low expression of centromere protein M (CENPM) showed significantly better progression-free survival than those with high expression. Garlic extract shows anticancer activity in vivo similar to that of cisplatin, with no evidence of side effects. Both appear to act by targeting protein-DNA complex assembly; in particular, expression of CENPM.

The one above says that garlic is just as good as a popular chemotherapy drug.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on August 02, 2018, 12:46:34 AM
People:

https://books.google.com/books?id=t22vBQAAQBAJ&lpg=PA244&ots=SQEqINl0gT&dq=allicin%20cured%20cancer%20in%20mice&pg=PA245#v=onepage&q&f=false

(https://i.imgur.com/3TxsioN.png)

...


(https://i.imgur.com/O7VfRcz.png)

Garlic tested on mammalian cancer cells, including human:

The Effects of Allicin, a Reactive Sulfur Species from
Garlic, on a Selection of Mammalian Cell Lines (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=12&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiV8pLGkc3cAhUCX60KHUHCB6cQFjALegQIExAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mdpi.com%2F2076-3921%2F6%2F1%2F1%2Fpdf&usg=AOvVaw2c0-jcdqgDtzkGXFprT-0Y)

Quote
2.1. Cell Lines and Cultivation
Cell lines: A549 (human alveolar basal epithelial adenocarcinoma cell, ATCC#CCL-185), NIH 3T3
(neonatal fibroblasts from Mouse, ATCC#CRL-1658) HUVEC (human umbilical vein endothelial cells),
HT29 (human colorectal epithelial carcinoma, ATCC#HTB-38) and MCF7 (human mammary carcinoma,
ATCC#HTB-22) were from the Department of Immunology, Cochin Hospital, Paris Descartes
University, Paris, France. Cells were cultivated in complete medium containing RPMI Medium
(Roswell Park Memorial Institute Medium, Invitrogen) containing 10% FCS (foetal calf serum) and
1% Penicillin/Streptomycin (10,000 U/mL) (Invitrogen, Waltham, MA, USA). Cells were incubated at
37 C and 5% CO2.

...


These data show that allicin is an inhibitor of cell viability and cell proliferation in a concentration
dependent manner, but that different cell lines show different sensitivities.

So tell me, are the above researchers lying?

In my last post we saw that Garlic performed similarly to a popular chemotherapy drug. Were those researchers lying or mistaken?

There seem to be hundreds of these garlic studies. This conversation is "nah uh" against the entire field of medical research which tells us that, yes, garlic does reverse cancer.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: BillO on August 02, 2018, 03:54:12 AM
I had read a study on how capsaicin appeared to reduce colon cancer, however as I recall it was based on a correlation between otherwise unrelated data sets.  Unfortunately I can’t seem to locate it now.  IIRC it seemed rather compelling, this given that I’m no biologist, correlating the low incidence of reported colon cancer in several countries with high capsaicin consumption rates.

I have no idea if these researcher’s are lying.  I’m ill equipped to judge their work being a mere technocrat.  Given my diet I’d naturally like to think it would give me some sort of survival advantage, but I remain unconvinced.  I’ll have to put it down to scientific scepticism but, after much thought this evening, I’ll retract my asssertation it is dribble.  I simply don’t know enough to make that claim.

My apologies on this one Tom.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: pj1 on August 02, 2018, 08:43:23 AM
I know it was 12 pages back but I wanted to reply to the OP.

Please consult a medical professional, such as a naturopathic doctor

Please, please, consult a medical professional such as a medical professional.   A doctor, an actual MD. 
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: totallackey on August 08, 2018, 03:32:57 PM
He is an article that dispels the myth of Hippocrates are the source of all the acts and writings that we attribute to him.

https://theconversation.com/hippocrates-didnt-write-the-oath-so-why-is-he-the-father-of-medicine-32334

In fact it is widely accepted that Hippocrates did not write the oath, no text in the hippocratic corpus can definitely be attributed to him and it is more likely that these texts were assembled over a few centuries by various people.  Some historians have identified as many as 19 authors involved in the Hippocratic corpus.  So... you can kindly refrain from pushing your argument from authority, thanks.
Providing revisionist history does nothing to support your position.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Rama Set on August 08, 2018, 03:48:49 PM
He is an article that dispels the myth of Hippocrates are the source of all the acts and writings that we attribute to him.

https://theconversation.com/hippocrates-didnt-write-the-oath-so-why-is-he-the-father-of-medicine-32334

In fact it is widely accepted that Hippocrates did not write the oath, no text in the hippocratic corpus can definitely be attributed to him and it is more likely that these texts were assembled over a few centuries by various people.  Some historians have identified as many as 19 authors involved in the Hippocratic corpus.  So... you can kindly refrain from pushing your argument from authority, thanks.
Providing revisionist history does nothing to support your position.

Providing evidence that Hippocrates is not the authority Tom says he is, does, however. 
Title: Deleted
Post by: user324 on August 12, 2018, 11:34:33 AM
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Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on August 12, 2018, 12:54:28 PM
I don't have time to read all 12 pages.

So can someone quickly post the studies which prove that 'cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items'?


(P.s. if you applied garlic to this forum, would it cease to exist?)

Scroll up. There are studies on this very page, one of which that says that garlic performs similarly to a cancer-killing chemotherapy drug.

Rather vexing studies if garlic really does nothing for cancer.
Title: Deleted
Post by: user324 on August 12, 2018, 02:11:14 PM
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Title: Deleted
Post by: user324 on August 12, 2018, 02:19:03 PM
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Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on August 12, 2018, 02:36:49 PM
I'm talking about #227. The study says that it was tested in vivo.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29595070

Quote
Microarray analysis of tumor tissue identified 515 common anticancer genes in the garlic and cisplatin groups ([Formula: see text]). Gene network analysis of 252 of these genes using the Cytoscape and ClueGo software packages mapped 17 genes and 9 gene ontologies to gene networks. BC (NMIBC and MIBC) patients with low expression of centromere protein M (CENPM) showed significantly better progression-free survival than those with high expression. Garlic extract shows anticancer activity in vivo similar to that of cisplatin, with no evidence of side effects. Both appear to act by targeting protein-DNA complex assembly; in particular, expression of CENPM.

The sentence says that garlic shows similar anticancer activity to that of the chemotherapy drug cisplatin, in vivo, and without the side effects of a chemotherapy drug.
Title: Deleted
Post by: user324 on August 13, 2018, 04:54:56 PM
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Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Baby Thork on August 14, 2018, 10:30:49 PM
Can you cure Super Gonorrhoea with common grocery store items? Asking for a friend. 

In the news today ... cabbage stops cancer.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-45171651
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: markjo on August 16, 2018, 06:07:24 PM
Hippocrates said that cancer is cured with crushed garlic. Garlic is a grocery store item.

Which sentence do you disagree with? Does your grocery store not carry garlic?
How many cases of what kinds of cancer did Hippocrates treat with crushed garlic?  How many of what kinds of cancers were actually cured by the crushed garlic?  How many of the patients did he treat with crushed garlic (or any other other common grocery store items) that died of cancer anyway?  I don't know about you Tom, but I consider the success to failure rate of a proposed treatment to be fairly important.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on August 18, 2018, 07:40:47 PM
I'm talking about #227. The study says that it was tested in vivo.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29595070

Quote
Microarray analysis of tumor tissue identified 515 common anticancer genes in the garlic and cisplatin groups ([Formula: see text]). Gene network analysis of 252 of these genes using the Cytoscape and ClueGo software packages mapped 17 genes and 9 gene ontologies to gene networks. BC (NMIBC and MIBC) patients with low expression of centromere protein M (CENPM) showed significantly better progression-free survival than those with high expression. Garlic extract shows anticancer activity in vivo similar to that of cisplatin, with no evidence of side effects. Both appear to act by targeting protein-DNA complex assembly; in particular, expression of CENPM.

The sentence says that garlic shows similar anticancer activity to that of the chemotherapy drug cisplatin, in vivo, and without the side effects of a chemotherapy drug.
I'm not sure if you have actually read the study. Let me explain it to you:
- The study only takes into account the effect on bladder cancer in mice. They also only tested with one cell line.
- The study shows that Cisplatin in general has a stronger effect than garlic
- It also shows that the garlic has to be dosed very high to actually work (on humans that would be 80g garlic powder for an 80kg man... have fun eating that)
- There was only 6 mice in each group, which is very low and means randomness has a big influence
https://image.ibb.co/jZq01U/1.png

Do you still think, this study proves that 'Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items'?
Because I think this study only shows that garlic contains a molecule that can cause apoptosis if it's taken in very high doses. A fact that apparently is long known.
I do agree that research in that direction might be helpful in the fight against cancer, but the study certainly does not prove the title of this thread.

The study is one of numerous studies which states that garlic reverses cancer in animals. This one says that garlic performs similarly as a chemotherapy drug, and without the side effects. You can't do human experiments without permission from the government. They won't let you. Search Youtube and the web and you will find plenty of testimonies of people who claim to have had their cancers cured through garlic.

Why don't US doctors ever prescribe herbs to patients, despite that there is clear evidence that herbs do cure illnesses? Medicine used to be herb based, after all. Not anymore. If a patient went to a doctor and was prescribed herbs that would be highly illegal and the doctor would likely lose his license and perhaps go to jail. They have to "do it by the book," and that book does not say to give herbs to patients. At best, an honest doctor will eventually suggest off-the-record to the patient to try an alternative medicine doctor if the pharmaceuticals are not working. Seen it happen.

One cannot maintain that herbs do not cure when entire countries, such as China, have medical systems based around herbs.

You will never see US doctors prescribing herbs for any ailment because there is a conspiracy to promote commercial pharmaceuticals. Doctors in western countries do not prescribe herbs anymore, and as long as the status quo is maintained, they never will.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Baby Thork on August 18, 2018, 07:52:07 PM
Tom agrees with the American Institute for Cancer Research

http://www.aicr.org/foods-that-fight-cancer/garlic.html


I'm not sure who Markjo agrees with.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: stack on August 18, 2018, 08:07:45 PM
One cannot maintain that herbs do not cure when entire countries, such as China, have medical systems based around herbs.

"China's cancer survival rate less than half that of US, new study finds

The five year survival rate of all cancers in China is 30.9 per cent - compared to 66 per cent in the US"

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1633419/chinas-cancer-survival-rate-just-half-us-new-study-finds

"Cancer survival rate disparities between China and developed nations

There is a large gap in rates of survival between China, and Western countries including European nations and the United States. Associate researcher at China’s Cancer Registration Center Zhang Siwei said that the overall survival rate is much higher for patients in developed countries. In the United States, the five year survival rate for all cancers is about 70 percent. This is about 40 percent higher than the overall rate in China."

https://www.echinacities.com/china-media/Cancer-in-China-Survival-Rate-Much-Lower-Than-In-Developed-Countries


There is no “cure” for cancer. There is remission and there is survival. Herbs, etc. may definitely aid in the fight. But I’d be very careful about using the word “cure”.
Title: Deleted
Post by: user324 on August 18, 2018, 08:12:02 PM
Deleted
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Baby Thork on August 18, 2018, 08:17:33 PM
There is a large gap in rates of survival between China, and Western countries including European nations and the United States.

No there isn't. You've a pretty similar chance of dying from cancer in either place.

However you are much less likely to get cancer in China, due to all the garlic you likely eat.

(http://www.theatlas.com/i/atlas_N1vT455Yl@2x.png)

You can't claim more people surviving as a percentage is a win, when you have more people getting cancer in the first place. It would seem there are a baseline of deadly cancers that are going to kill you whatever (you get a cancer at 90 and really, what is anyone going to do?). But in garlic munching places, you are a third less likely to get a caner in the first place. Of the curable cancers, it would seem those who eat garlic are the best protected and their cancers don't make you so ill as to need medical attention. The garlic likely clears it right up before it becomes a problem.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: stack on August 18, 2018, 08:31:05 PM
However you are much less likely to get cancer in China, due to all the garlic you likely eat.

"Conclusion

The most commonly found cancers vary between China and the USA. Cancers of the lung, breast, and gastrointestinal region, including those of the stomach, liver, esophagus, and colorectum, are more commonly seen in China than in the USA."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3643656/
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on August 18, 2018, 09:12:06 PM
Did they control for population like Thork pointed out? What does the "most common cancers seen" tell us? Why can't a place with low cancer rates also have a list of the "most common cancers seen"?

Another factor is that some areas of China eat more garlic than others.

From the last page:

https://books.google.com/books?id=t22vBQAAQBAJ&lpg=PA244&ots=SQEqINl0gT&dq=allicin%20cured%20cancer%20in%20mice&pg=PA245#v=onepage&q&f=false

(https://i.imgur.com/O7VfRcz.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/3TxsioN.png)
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: stack on August 18, 2018, 09:26:06 PM
We could go back and forth ad nauseam. My only point is that I take great issue with the OP: "Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items"

It’s incredibly negligent, misleading, and disingenuous.

Cancer is not “easily cured” by anything.

Now as far as staving the prospect of getting cancer, sure, eating a healthy diet certainly aids in this as well as for other diseases and ailments. Also does abstaining from smoking, drinking and other known harmful activities.

But to claim that garlic “cures” cancer. That is an out-and-out fallacy.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Baby Thork on August 18, 2018, 10:02:05 PM
But to claim that garlic “cures” cancer. That is an out-and-out fallacy.
Maybe you should take that up with Britain's NHS?

https://www.nhs.uk/news/cancer/garlic-study-raises-hopes-for-rare-brain-cancer/

Quote from: https://www.nhs.uk/news/cancer/garlic-study-raises-hopes-for-rare-brain-cancer/
Garlic may be used to treat brain cancers, The Times reported on September 1 2007. The newspaper reported that scientists had found that certain organic compounds in garlic kill tumours. The type of tumour in question, glioblastoma, tends to kill people soon after they are diagnosed.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: stack on August 18, 2018, 10:26:35 PM
But to claim that garlic “cures” cancer. That is an out-and-out fallacy.
Maybe you should take that up with Britain's NHS?

https://www.nhs.uk/news/cancer/garlic-study-raises-hopes-for-rare-brain-cancer/

Quote from: https://www.nhs.uk/news/cancer/garlic-study-raises-hopes-for-rare-brain-cancer/
Garlic may be used to treat brain cancers, The Times reported on September 1 2007. The newspaper reported that scientists had found that certain organic compounds in garlic kill tumours. The type of tumour in question, glioblastoma, tends to kill people soon after they are diagnosed.

From the link you provided above:

"What does the NHS Knowledge Service make of this study?

This was a laboratory study, and no conclusions about the effects of garlic on human health can be drawn from it.

This study did not look at the effects of eating garlic in people who have glioblastoma; it also did not look at whether eating garlic prevents people developing cancer. In addition, this study did not look at the effects of these garlic compounds on healthy human cells; therefore it is possible that these compounds also kill healthy cells.

Based on this studies findings, we shouldn’t believe that eating garlic will prevent or cure cancer."
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Baby Thork on August 18, 2018, 10:28:05 PM
So the NHS are just having a wild stab in the dark about garlic, are they? Maybe there is another entry where they suggest leeches or holy water?
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: stack on August 18, 2018, 10:39:00 PM
So the NHS are just having a wild stab in the dark about garlic, are they? Maybe there is another entry where they suggest leeches or holy water?

I don't claim to know what NHS' motivations are. You cited the report, I read it, and simply pointed out what the NHS said about the study.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Baby Thork on August 18, 2018, 10:43:44 PM
The NHS, as Tom pointed out, are basically saying clinical trials are on going, garlic does kill the cancer cells in the lab ... but there is no drug that can be sold for masses of profit at this time.

Quote from: https://www.nhs.uk/news/cancer/garlic-study-raises-hopes-for-rare-brain-cancer/
The researchers found that all three compounds caused more glioblastoma cells to die (by a method known as apoptosis) than was observed in the untreated control cells. The higher the concentration of the compound used, the more cells died.

Those are the results. Garlic kills cancer.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: stack on August 18, 2018, 11:23:55 PM
The NHS, as Tom pointed out, are basically saying clinical trials are on going, garlic does kill the cancer cells in the lab ... but there is no drug that can be sold for masses of profit at this time.

Quote from: https://www.nhs.uk/news/cancer/garlic-study-raises-hopes-for-rare-brain-cancer/
The researchers found that all three compounds caused more glioblastoma cells to die (by a method known as apoptosis) than was observed in the untreated control cells. The higher the concentration of the compound used, the more cells died.

Those are the results. Garlic kills cancer.

It did kill some cells, in a lab. So do other compounds. I look forward to more research on the matter. In the mean time, Cancer is NOT easily cured with common grocery store items.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on July 04, 2019, 02:10:36 AM
Garlic suppresses cancer in humans:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16484573

Quote
Aged garlic extract has potential suppressive effect on colorectal adenomas in humans.
Tanaka S1, Haruma K, Yoshihara M, Kajiyama G, Kira K, Amagase H, Chayama K.

Abstract
Epidemiological and animal studies suggest AGE and its organosulfur constituents, such as S-allylcysteine and S-allylmercaptocysteine have anticarcinogenic effects. To confirm these effects in humans, a preliminary double-blind, randomized clinical trial using high-dose AGE (AGE 2.4 mL/d) as an active treatment and low-dose AGE (AGE 0.16 mL/d) as a control was performed on patients with colorectal adenomas-precancerous lesions of the large bowel. The study enrolled 51 patients who were diagnosed as carrying colorectal adenomas. The patients were randomly assigned to the two groups after adenomas larger than 5 mm in diameter were removed by polypectomy. The number and size of adenomas right before intake (0 mo) and at 6 and 12 mo after intake were measured using colonoscopy. Thirty-seven patients (19 in the active group, 18 in the control group) completed the study and were evaluated for the efficacy of AGE. The number of adenomas increased linearly in the control group from the beginning (the baseline), but AGE significantly suppressed both the size and number of colon adenomas in patients after 12 mo of high-dose treatment (P=0.04). The results suggest AGE suppresses progression of colorectal adenomas in humans. It appears that AGE has multiple pathways to reduce cancer incidence and suppress its growth and proliferation.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: stack on July 07, 2019, 01:18:57 AM
Garlic suppresses cancer in humans:

Careful with statements like: "Garlic suppresses cancer in humans". There's a potential and is still being studied. Much more research is required with AGE consumption as a cancer suppressant - Its effectiveness in humans has not been determined. You cite a paper from 2008. From a more recent study published in 2018 (Which comments on the study you presented and others):

"Aged Garlic and Cancer: A Systematic Review (September, 2018)

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/327708446_Aged_Garlic_and_Cancer_A_Systematic_Review

Another trial showed that daily consumption of 2.4 mL  AGE in 51 diagnosed patients as carrying colorectal adenomas could signifi cantly inhibit the number and size of adenomas in the treatment group after 6 and 12 months.[20] However, we should keep in mind that protective factors of colorectal adenoma such as folate and regular nonsteroidal anti-infl ammatory drug using and risk factors such as smoking and alcohol drinking might have confounding role in the obtained results.[48] Further to mentioned point, it also seems that assessment of reliable markers of genetic risk factors of colorectal cancer is necessary.[49] In another trial in this field, researchers reported that supplementation with AGE had not considerably chemoprevention effects on the incidence of precancerous gastric lesions.[24] Even longer follow-up provided the same results.[23]

Overall, the current fi ndings are not suffi cient to assess the effects of aged garlic on cancer. However, due to anticancer properties of aged garlic, its consumption along with healthy diet may have benefi cial effects on cancer. More clinical trials and prospective cohort human studies with adequate sample size are necessary.
"
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on July 07, 2019, 03:41:51 PM
Garlic suppresses cancer in humans:

Careful with statements like: "Garlic suppresses cancer in humans". There's a potential and is still being studied.

I bet those people were pretty happy when the garlic suppressed their cancer.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: stack on July 07, 2019, 05:41:29 PM
Garlic suppresses cancer in humans:

Careful with statements like: "Garlic suppresses cancer in humans". There's a potential and is still being studied.

I bet those people were pretty happy when the garlic suppressed their cancer.

Sure. And I supposed those whose tumors weren't suppressed by their garlic intake were not happy. And it's unclear if garlic was the actual suppressant to begin with if you had read the quote and the study I cited.

I'm just saying, making a statement like, "Garlic suppresses cancer in humans" is a headline a tabloid would run and is disingenuous. Better would have been, "Study finds that AGE may have a suppressive effect on some cancers".

Better still, would have been to reference the 2018 study I cited rather than the 2008 study you found.

Just be careful and thoughtful when it comes to espousing notions around the treatments of deadly diseases.
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: Tom Bishop on July 07, 2019, 10:34:03 PM
The study you cited is a totally different study with different doses and cancers and timespans.

The people in the study I cited were given the same treatment and their cancers were suppressed in a double-blind study against a control group. The control group without the high doses of garlic had cancers which proliferated. How did those people in that study taking high dose garlic coincidentally regress?
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: stack on July 07, 2019, 11:28:34 PM
The study you cited is a totally different study with different doses and cancers and timespans.

The people in the study I cited were given the same treatment and their cancers were suppressed in a double-blind study against a control group. The control group without the high doses of garlic had cancers which proliferated. How did those people in that study taking high dose garlic coincidentally regress?

The quote provided from the paper I referenced is in regard to the study you originally referenced. Read it again.

But jesus, where are you going with all this? More research is required. The paper I referenced cited promising elements of AGE as a cancer inhibitor, but that many factors have not been controlled for in the human studies so it's efficacy is still unknown. I am not arguing that garlic may provide some health benefits. So may red wine and a Med diet for heart disease. But it's cavalier to be stating things like the title of this thread and "Garlic suppresses cancer in humans" when it's unclear and certainly undecided.

I'm all for the research, so it's great to dig these studies and such up and share, just don't go laying down absolutes where there aren't any. It's misleading. 
Title: Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
Post by: markjo on July 08, 2019, 12:04:10 AM
Garlic suppresses cancer in humans:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16484573

Quote
Aged garlic extract has potential suppressive effect on colorectal adenomas in humans.
Tanaka S1, Haruma K, Yoshihara M, Kajiyama G, Kira K, Amagase H, Chayama K.

...

The results suggest AGE suppresses progression of colorectal adenomas in humans. It appears that AGE has multiple pathways to reduce cancer incidence and suppress its growth and proliferation.
Tom, if your own source won't say with certainty that AGE suppresses cancer, then you shouldn't either.