The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Theory => Topic started by: Bishthebosh on February 07, 2019, 07:13:48 PM

Title: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: Bishthebosh on February 07, 2019, 07:13:48 PM
In case people are not already aware, youtuber VoysovReason has put out a challenge to the FE community to demonstrate HOW images put out by NASA are faked, by providing 12 images of his own, one of which has been modified. See the video for a full explanation which comes towards the end.

https://youtu.be/MoszBAjjg9Q


This seems like a very reasonable challenge. It is also one that, given the wealth of knowledge in your community, should an easy one to rise to.

I’ve not been posting here for very long, but am genuinely interested and fascinated by the FE world view, especially as someone leading a spiritual life, influenced by Christian and Buddhist teaching (because I assume that this view is driven by a literal reading of scripture).

There seems to be some very sharp minds here - with a far better understanding of science than I have. This is what piques my interest - that the obvious truth of a globe Earth is disbelieved. I struggle to understand how that thinking works. My belief in a globe Earth is supported by the simpler things that one can observe e.g. the scattering of blue shortwave light that gives the red/orange end of the spectrum colour to sunsets, how the light lights up a mountain from the top first, how ships disappear bottom first over the horizon (despite what some claim, there are tons of images of this phenomenon), rather than the more complicated maths etc that I see in some YT videos - I just don’t get that complex maths stuff (though I am signed up to a maths course later this year as I dropped out of school in the 1970’s and never got a maths qualification).

As always, with genuinely warm wishes.

God bless.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: BillO on February 09, 2019, 08:25:14 PM
Interesting challenge but I doubt anyone here will take it up.

As far as I can determine, most of the Flat Earth believers on this site claim to be atheist.  I'm not sure if the recent (last 200+/- years) resurgence in a FE belief was begun by people with literal view of the Christian canon but at least one of the FE heroes from 200 years ago, Samuel Robotham, seems to have been driven by his fundamentalist faith.  However, one must consider he was considered a complete quack by the scientific community of the time.  Things have not changed much in that respect.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: Tom Bishop on February 09, 2019, 11:25:03 PM
How does picking out an item what was photshopped from one of a series of photos prove whether NASA's content is fake?
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on February 10, 2019, 09:40:37 AM
How does picking out an item what was photshopped into one of a series of photos prove whether NASA's content is fake?
It doesn't. But what it does so is demonstrate that you have the necessary skills to tell real images from fake ones and are not just arbitrarily calling everything fake which doesn't fit in your world-view because of confirmation bias.
I have asked on this board several times what actual analysis has been done of photos and videos from space - I mean proper analysis by people skilled in such things, not vague assertions. I've yet to get an answer.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: ChrisTP on February 10, 2019, 12:01:31 PM
So it's essentially a "fake or foto" test to see whether flat earthers are bullshitting when they call photos fake.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: BillO on February 10, 2019, 01:18:02 PM
That is precisely it.  You could use photos of rib steaks if you wish, the subject matter is immaterial.  Rather it is the proving an image had been manipulated enough to be considered completely inaccurate/false representation.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: Bishthebosh on February 10, 2019, 01:36:48 PM
So it's essentially a "fake or foto" test to see whether flat earthers are bullshitting when they call photos fake.

That’s it, basically; then to apply that analysis to images put out by NASA to deconstruct how they did it.

I find it quite astonishing that the majority of FErs would be atheist, as Bill0 says he thinks is the case. The literal Bible believers I get; the Atheists? I find it harder to think my way into that mindset and work out a motivation.

What is important to me is try to maintain compassion and understanding for views that differ from my own. Also to keep an open mind - I might be wrong! Case in point is my religious faith. I moved from militant atheism to a belief in God during my early 50s. 

I get that there’s a mistrust of science, probably fuelled by the seeming incomprehensibility of much of the complex maths and physics involved, coupled with what seems like the constantly shifting ground as new information modifies or even refutes previous knowledge - but that is the very nature of the scientific method. There is always an open formulation, ready for new information to inform it.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: Bastian Baasch on February 10, 2019, 04:59:56 PM
Like BillO and AATW have already pointed out, ir's doubtful whether FE'ers will answer at all. The basic reason for that I think is that for pictures of the Earth, the logic basically goes: "The Earth is flat, therefore, the Conspiracy is real, therefore, the pictures showing Earth as a globe are fake." And then they just throw in CGI as an explanation without actually pointing out how it's fake.
In the words of Tom Bishop,
Unless you've debunked all evidence it remains as evidence.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: totallackey on February 11, 2019, 12:01:45 PM
How does picking out an item what was photshopped into one of a series of photos prove whether NASA's content is fake?
It doesn't. But what it does so is demonstrate that you have the necessary skills to tell real images from fake ones and are not just arbitrarily calling everything fake which doesn't fit in your world-view because of confirmation bias.
I do not believe I have witnessed any FE adherent label every image they see as "fake."
I have asked on this board several times what actual analysis has been done of photos and videos from space - I mean proper analysis by people skilled in such things, not vague assertions. I've yet to get an answer.
Usually, the vetting of evidence is incumbent on the presenter...correct?
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: ChrisTP on February 11, 2019, 12:16:02 PM
I do not believe I have witnessed any FE adherent label every image they see as "fake."
Oh, so you think some images of the spherical earth from space are real then? Unless you're being pedantic and meaning literally every image ever of anything... But that would be a stupid thing to say given that there is a context.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on February 11, 2019, 12:59:40 PM
I have asked on this board several times what actual analysis has been done of photos and videos from space - I mean proper analysis by people skilled in such things, not vague assertions. I've yet to get an answer.
Usually, the vetting of evidence is incumbent on the presenter...correct?

I'm not sure what you mean by that. NASA and lots of other space agencies, both national and private, have published images which they claim are taken from space.
Are you suggesting that it is incumbent on them to prove that the images are not doctored? I don't know how one would go about proving a negative like that.
But if the images are faked somehow then you'd think that someone with the necessary skills would be able to find evidence of that - especially with older photos where CGI techniques would have been less advanced. I've yet to seen any proper analysis of these images from someone with the necessary skills and professional experience. Just asserting they are fake is meaningless.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: ChrisTP on February 11, 2019, 01:28:20 PM
for the record this was answered a while ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PISZKvgOMEo
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: Bastian Baasch on February 11, 2019, 01:46:37 PM
for the record this was answered a while ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PISZKvgOMEo

But that doesn't really matter, sure anyone could look up the answer on this forum but what matters here is the methodology, the criteria for determining photos fake or real. If you don't have that, then you've lost the challenge.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: ChrisTP on February 11, 2019, 01:53:28 PM
Oh for sure I agree, and I'm sure flat earthers here will happily go about their business without acknowledging the video, but just in the off chance one of them does copy an answer that was already confirmed and then uses that as a self proclaimed professional photo analyst status, it's a thought experiment and nothing more.

The problem with this being a thought experiment is that we go away from it individually learning from it or silently scoffing. Flat earthers may not learn the lesson from this and walk away thinking they are still 'winning'. Continuing to just claim space photos fake without a premise.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: totallackey on February 11, 2019, 02:29:52 PM
I do not believe I have witnessed any FE adherent label every image they see as "fake."
Oh, so you think some images of the spherical earth from space are real then?
I believe a great deal of the "information," in the images.

I do not believe the compilation of the "information," is correct and much of it is altered to render a false visual.
Unless you're being pedantic and meaning literally every image ever of anything... But that would be a stupid thing to say given that there is a context.
Nope, not being pedantic.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on February 11, 2019, 02:45:50 PM
I do not believe the compilation of the "information," is correct and much of it is altered to render a false visual.

OK, and what is your evidence for that belief and what are your qualifications and expertise in this area?
Surely that belief is based on something?
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: Tom Bishop on February 11, 2019, 06:02:42 PM
The title of the OP is "An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!"

And we are encouraged to pick out a photoshopped element in a series of photos. If we did so, how would it prove that NASA's images are fake?
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: ChrisTP on February 11, 2019, 06:10:46 PM
The title of the OP is "An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!"

And we are encouraged to pick out a photoshopped element in a series of photos. If we did so, how would it prove that NASA's images are fake?
come on now, stop getting fixated on the wording of the title of the topic, it's not very productive.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: Bastian Baasch on February 11, 2019, 08:08:48 PM
The title of the OP is "An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!"

And we are encouraged to pick out a photoshopped element in a series of photos. If we did so, how would it prove that NASA's images are fake?

AATW literally spelled it out for you Tom. It doesn't do so directly, what it does is demonstrate that you have the skills and an objective criteria or methodology to determine whether a photo is fake or not. Since FE'ers contend NASA's photos are fake without any actual evidence besides out of context quotes, and composite images, etc., testing FE'ers skills and methodology with a series of images with a known photoshopped image would show whether you actually had the skills and methodology to back up your assertions about NASA's images.

This isn't rocket science Tom!
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: BillO on February 12, 2019, 01:42:52 AM
Usually, the vetting of evidence is incumbent on the presenter...correct?
No, this is not the usual case at all and never has been in the case of images.

As an example, a nature photography competition may have certain rules about what is allowed.  The PSA definition is here: https://psa-photo.org/index.php?nature-nature-definition (https://psa-photo.org/index.php?nature-nature-definition)  Photographers are welcome to submit pictures, but are never asked to provide any proof their submissions meet the criteria.  It is then up to the folks running the competition to determine whether or not the entered images meet the definition.

The audience always the final say.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: Bishthebosh on February 12, 2019, 12:10:16 PM
Usually, the vetting of evidence is incumbent on the presenter...correct?
No, this is not the usual case at all and never has been in the case of images.

As an example, a nature photography competition may have certain rules about what is allowed.  The PSA definition is here: https://psa-photo.org/index.php?nature-nature-definition (https://psa-photo.org/index.php?nature-nature-definition)  Photographers are welcome to submit pictures, but are never asked to provide any proof their submissions meet the criteria.  It is then up to the folks running the competition to determine whether or not the entered images meet the definition.

The audience always the final say.

Similarly with reputable scientific journals: there is always peer review to assess the validity and the methodology of the experiments to support the argument put forward in the submitted paper prior to publication.

I think that Tom possibly did not watch the video all the way through as the purpose of the challenge is very clearly explained by VoysovReason.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: totallackey on February 12, 2019, 12:16:10 PM
Usually, the vetting of evidence is incumbent on the presenter...correct?
No, this is not the usual case at all and never has been in the case of images.

As an example, a nature photography competition may have certain rules about what is allowed.  The PSA definition is here: https://psa-photo.org/index.php?nature-nature-definition (https://psa-photo.org/index.php?nature-nature-definition)  Photographers are welcome to submit pictures, but are never asked to provide any proof their submissions meet the criteria.  It is then up to the folks running the competition to determine whether or not the entered images meet the definition.

The audience always the final say.
How does a competition involve evidence?

Evidence is based on a vetting process and the evidence is vetted by the person presenting the evidence, period...end of sentence.

Unless you want to claim a person who is presenting photos for submission in a nature photo contest does not first determine the photos he is going to submit meet the contest requirements...
I do not believe the compilation of the "information," is correct and much of it is altered to render a false visual.
OK, and what is your evidence for that belief and what are your qualifications and expertise in this area?
Surely that belief is based on something?
Perhaps this image.

Not possible to achieve from the height of the ISS if the RE claims of measure are as presented.
(https://3c1703fe8d.site.internapcdn.net/newman/gfx/news/hires/2014/videoadizzyi.jpg)
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: ChrisTP on February 12, 2019, 01:04:51 PM
Perhaps this image.

Not possible to achieve from the height of the ISS if the RE claims of measure are as presented.
(https://3c1703fe8d.site.internapcdn.net/newman/gfx/news/hires/2014/videoadizzyi.jpg)
And how have you determined the photo is not possible to achieve? Do you know what camera and lens were used? do you know the source of the image (who took it)? What measurements are you referring to? I don't doubt the sincerity of your post but you've given little information for anyone to go by to work out exactly what you think is going on and how exactly it's possible (or not possible). Tell us what exactly is wrong with the image that makes it impossible.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: totallackey on February 12, 2019, 02:01:23 PM
Perhaps this image.

Not possible to achieve from the height of the ISS if the RE claims of measure are as presented.
(https://3c1703fe8d.site.internapcdn.net/newman/gfx/news/hires/2014/videoadizzyi.jpg)
And how have you determined the photo is not possible to achieve? Do you know what camera and lens were used? do you know the source of the image (who took it)? What measurements are you referring to? I don't doubt the sincerity of your post but you've given little information for anyone to go by to work out exactly what you think is going on and how exactly it's possible (or not possible). Tell us what exactly is wrong with the image that makes it impossible.
I clearly stated what is wrong.

The amount of curvature in the photo is impossible to achieve from the height and viewpoint.

That is indisputable.

Even RE acknowledges this fact, here on this very forum:
https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=11814.msg178897#msg178897 (https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=11814.msg178897#msg178897)
"The ISS is orbitting at an average height of 250 miles which is 3.1% of the diameter of Earth..."
Does that look like 3.1% of the diameter, or does it look like nearly 50 percent?

Perhaps you will believe this one though...
(https://www.spacestationexplorers.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/earth-from-cupola.jpg)
Here you have the entirety of the circle of the earth (AN AMAZING 100 PERCENT!), all conveniently caught with the purview of the ISS cupola from a supposed height of just over 250 miles above the earth's surface...

Gimme a break...LOL!
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: BillO on February 12, 2019, 02:33:33 PM
... all conveniently caught with the purview of the ISS cupola from a supposed height of just over 250 miles above the earth's surface...

Gimme a break...LOL!
So, are you saying that because you found one camera on the ISS that uses a fish-eye lens that proves that all cameras on the ISS use fish-eye lenses?
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: totallackey on February 12, 2019, 02:41:08 PM
... all conveniently caught with the purview of the ISS cupola from a supposed height of just over 250 miles above the earth's surface...

Gimme a break...LOL!
So, are you saying that because you found one camera on the ISS that uses a fish-eye lens that proves that all cameras on the ISS use fish-eye lenses?
I don't care what kind of camera is being used.

I wrote: "I do not believe the compilation of the "information," is correct and much of it is altered to render a false visual."

In response, I received this query from AATW: "OK, and what is your evidence for that belief and what are your qualifications and expertise in this area?
Surely that belief is based on something?"

I am writing the images presented by NASA present a false narrative of a globe earth and I have provided visual evidence they indeed do just that.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: ChrisTP on February 12, 2019, 02:51:28 PM
It's perfectly possible to get that shot... If you're able to look out the window and see the perceived edge of the earth then you're able to get that photo. A 360 camera would be able to get that photo. I fail to see how you think this is impossible.

Is this photo selfie somehow also fake?

(http://www.goxtreme-action-cams.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Omni360_MOOD2.jpg)

Maybe actually watch the OP video, as he points this out too, that while a photo might seem surreal it doesn't mean it isn't real.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: Curious Squirrel on February 12, 2019, 02:55:44 PM
... all conveniently caught with the purview of the ISS cupola from a supposed height of just over 250 miles above the earth's surface...

Gimme a break...LOL!
So, are you saying that because you found one camera on the ISS that uses a fish-eye lens that proves that all cameras on the ISS use fish-eye lenses?
I don't care what kind of camera is being used.

I wrote: "I do not believe the compilation of the "information," is correct and much of it is altered to render a false visual."

In response, I received this query from AATW: "OK, and what is your evidence for that belief and what are your qualifications and expertise in this area?
Surely that belief is based on something?"

I am writing the images presented by NASA present a false narrative of a globe earth and I have provided visual evidence they indeed do just that.
OK, and do you by chance have a source for the image you presented? Did you look into it in order to determine that it's actually impossible? Or are you just making an assumption? A quick google on it reveals it's an image taken out of the ISS cupola utilizing a fisheye lens. The cupola extends out beyond the surface of the ISS to provide essentially a 360 degree view with a 'horizon' of the edge of the station. How is it impossible for such a setup to be able to capture the whole of the Earth utilizing a fisheye lens? Sounds more like you need it to be fake, so you've decided it's fake without any investigation. Which is exactly what the video is essentially accusing FE'rs of doing.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: BillO on February 12, 2019, 03:14:02 PM
I am writing the images presented by NASA present a false narrative of a globe earth and I have provided visual evidence they indeed do just that.
How is that image a false narrative of a globe earth?  Was it presented as an accurate account of the curvature?
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on February 13, 2019, 08:33:42 AM
I am writing the images presented by NASA present a false narrative of a globe earth and I have provided visual evidence they indeed do just that.
You have provided evidence that one image does that, but my questions about that are
1) Is that image being presented by NASA as proof of the globe earth - I imagine not as I don't think they really feel the need to prove that.
2) If it is then clearly the curve of the earth is greatly exaggerated, are you suggesting that this image is CGI but when rendering it they distorted the curve of the earth deliberately? Why would they do that?

Some lenses do distort reality, straight lines can become curved. BUT, if I take a photo of something using such a lens I still have to be looking at the object I'm taking a photo of. So in this case, are you claiming the photo was taken from space but is distorted? If so then yes, I agree, but there are plenty of images and video from space which aren't so what's your point? The other alternative is that the whole image is faked but why they would deliberately distort the image like that is beyond me.
The FE claim about NASA seems to be that they are competent enough to fake space travel well enough to fool almost everyone, but simultaneously incompetent enough that some people on the internet who have no experience or qualifications in image analysis can spot the fakes.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: stack on February 13, 2019, 09:27:56 AM
1) Is that image being presented by NASA as proof of the globe earth - I imagine not as I don't think they really feel the need to prove that.

An interesting thing you raise as many others have probably as well. The default position for an FEr is that NASA, all space agencies from various countries, private or public, have to be a ruse, part of a conspiracy, whathaveyou. Otherwise, anything produced by them, showing earth from space, round and such, manmade objects orbiting, beyond the dome, etc., ruins the FE view. So it all has to be garbage. There's no middle ground. So there is no way an FEr could ever accept stuff in space, as it were. It's an untenable notion.

Which leads me back to kind of an interesting psychological assumption; if you believe the earth is flat - you cannot believe any evidence from any space endeavor - means there has to be a conspiracy of immense magnitude to fulfill the conspiracy - means much of what images/video from 'space endeavors' are presented almost solely to perpetuate the conspiracy.

Point being, an FE'rs default when presented with any image/video is that it's fake b/c it has to be and the agency/company who presented is trying to prove a globe earth with their fakery.
Whereas to your point, I don't think these agencies/companies give a shit about proving or disproving a globe earth. Why would they? Why would they need to 'indoctrinate' more of us? Pretty much job done.

Interesting how the conspiratorial mind works and why it needs to.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: Bishthebosh on February 13, 2019, 10:41:41 AM
for the record this was answered a while ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PISZKvgOMEo

Thanks for putting this up, ChrisTP. I had seen a briefer example in a SciManDan video demonstrating the variation in continent size by zooming in on a globe, but this was much clearer. Also this guy has a calmer approach. One of the things that lets Dan and others down is their hostility (which I appreciate is often a reaction to provocation, and borne of exasperation). Met with hostility to our opinions we all just tend to dig our heels in - a natural human response - so it’s a tactic that is never going to convince a FE believer.

Having only been around this debate for a short time, I’m realising that FErs are never going to be convinced that they are wrong. As others have said on these fora, it’s denialism probably coupled with incredulity in many cases.

I feel genuine compassion for them. It must be exhausting believing this stuff and being outraged by it.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on February 13, 2019, 11:28:04 AM
Interesting how the conspiratorial mind works and why it needs to.
It is an interesting psychology.
The part I understand is "I believe A, B contradicts A therefore B is wrong or fake"
If you believe A strongly enough then a mixture of Confirmation Bias and Cognitive Dissonance will allow you to dismiss B no matter how strong evidence B is.
It's an interesting and common psychology but one which is fairly well understood.
The thing I don't understand is how do you get to believe A in the first place. A lot of that is, I think, to do with an underlying belief that "they" are up to something.
And "they" are up to some things, certainly, but pretending the earth is a different shape to the one commonly believed is unlikely to be one of them.

I've still yet to see anything other than vague assertions about photos/video from space. "You can see a bubble". No, I can see a speck. I don't know what that speck is but it can't be a bubble because they're not underwater. "He is clearly wearing a harness". Well, not clearly. I can't see any wires. I can see some fold in his clothes but that doesn't clearly indicate anything. The weightless thing is interesting because you get so many different explanations - underwater, harnesses, CGI, parabolic flights. Tom even suggested some kind of levitation which, as far as I know, can only levitate objects up to the size of a small frog without some serious and unrealistic power. It's interesting that Tom didn't understand why being able to analyse photos for evidence of fakery/manipulation was a pre-requisite skill for analysing photos from NASA and other space agencies both national and private.

I've personally seen a shuttle launch. Has anyone witnessed one of them landing again before the mission has ended? Where are they going if it's not space?
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: totallackey on February 13, 2019, 11:57:44 AM
It's perfectly possible to get that shot... If you're able to look out the window and see the perceived edge of the earth then you're able to get that photo. A 360 camera would be able to get that photo. I fail to see how you think this is impossible.

Is this photo selfie somehow also fake?

(http://www.goxtreme-action-cams.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Omni360_MOOD2.jpg)

Maybe actually watch the OP video, as he points this out too, that while a photo might seem surreal it doesn't mean it isn't real.
Do you even read what I write?

Evidently not, as absolutely ZERO of your response addresses none of what I have written here in this thread.

If you are insisting on remaining utterly vacuous of meaningful response, please go to AR.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: ChrisTP on February 13, 2019, 12:04:29 PM
It's perfectly possible to get that shot... If you're able to look out the window and see the perceived edge of the earth then you're able to get that photo. A 360 camera would be able to get that photo. I fail to see how you think this is impossible.

Is this photo selfie somehow also fake?

(http://www.goxtreme-action-cams.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Omni360_MOOD2.jpg)

Maybe actually watch the OP video, as he points this out too, that while a photo might seem surreal it doesn't mean it isn't real.
Do you even read what I write?

Evidently not, as absolutely ZERO of your response addresses none of what I have written here in this thread.

If you are insisting on remaining utterly vacuous of meaningful response, please go to AR.
I can't tell at this point if you're kidding but I will assume you're still being sincere. You have yet to prove how the photo is fake. All you've done is claim it's not possible. I stated how it's possible and you've now assumed my response has no meaning...

"Evidently not, as absolutely ZERO of your response addresses none of what I have written here in this thread." - not sure if the double negative was on purpose but if so I agree I suppose?
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: totallackey on February 13, 2019, 12:10:11 PM
I am writing the images presented by NASA present a false narrative of a globe earth and I have provided visual evidence they indeed do just that.
You have provided evidence that one image does that, but my questions about that are
1) Is that image being presented by NASA as proof of the globe earth - I imagine not as I don't think they really feel the need to prove that.
I have provided more than one and there are indeed many others.

NASA simply needs to continue to support globe earth and related issues in order to maintain funding.
2) If it is then clearly the curve of the earth is greatly exaggerated, are you suggesting that this image is CGI but when rendering it they distorted the curve of the earth deliberately? Why would they do that?
I do not know how the image was produced or compiled.

Nobody does.

Certainly no one here.
Some lenses do distort reality, straight lines can become curved. BUT, if I take a photo of something using such a lens I still have to be looking at the object I'm taking a photo of. So in this case, are you claiming the photo was taken from space but is distorted? If so then yes, I agree, but there are plenty of images and video from space which aren't so what's your point?
You have zero clue as to whether any images produced by NASA are legitimate is my point.
The other alternative is that the whole image is faked but why they would deliberately distort the image like that is beyond me.
Why does anyone or anybody fake anything?

People and organizations have lied, are lying, and will continue to lie until the end of time.

Usually to gain or keep something they do not want to lose.
The FE claim about NASA seems to be that they are competent enough to fake space travel well enough to fool almost everyone, but simultaneously incompetent enough that some people on the internet who have no experience or qualifications in image analysis can spot the fakes.
Having written many times over many threads the fact technology has existed since the beginning of announced space travel that is capable of rendering images (according to experts) indistinguishable from the supposed real thing would lead one to believe your claim of FE being incompetent also lies on your side of the aisle.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: totallackey on February 13, 2019, 12:15:00 PM
It's perfectly possible to get that shot... If you're able to look out the window and see the perceived edge of the earth then you're able to get that photo. A 360 camera would be able to get that photo. I fail to see how you think this is impossible.

Is this photo selfie somehow also fake?

(http://www.goxtreme-action-cams.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Omni360_MOOD2.jpg)

Maybe actually watch the OP video, as he points this out too, that while a photo might seem surreal it doesn't mean it isn't real.
Do you even read what I write?

Evidently not, as absolutely ZERO of your response addresses none of what I have written here in this thread.

If you are insisting on remaining utterly vacuous of meaningful response, please go to AR.
I can't tell at this point if you're kidding but I will assume you're still being sincere. You have yet to prove how the photo is fake. All you've done is claim it's not possible. I stated how it's possible and you've now assumed my response has no meaning...

"Evidently not, as absolutely ZERO of your response addresses none of what I have written here in this thread." - not sure if the double negative was on purpose but if so I agree I suppose?
Not kidding at all.

And your grammatical correction is misguided.

Now, kindly point out for the readership where I wrote the word "fake," in this thread, and in what context.

That way you will demonstrate both the ability to read and the ability to understand what you are reading.

Thank you.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: BillO on February 13, 2019, 12:51:10 PM
You said the image was impossible which implies it is fake.  Are you being obtuse?

You also said you did not know how the image was composed or complied.  Your admitted ignorance means you cannot make the claim it is impossible.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: ChrisTP on February 13, 2019, 01:39:42 PM
Totallackey... The title of this thread states this is your opportunity to prove the NASA images are fake. You presented an image from NASA and said impossible images like this are the reason. You don't need to specifically call something fake if you're calling it impossible and implying it's not real. Watch me do it;

Flat earth isn't real, it's not a thing, it's made up. On the other hand, Globe earth is real.

See how I didn't say flat earth was fake but still made the claim that is is fake? Real is an antonym of fake. By claiming something is impossible you're claiming the photo is not possible, if it were possible, it would be real while if it were impossible, it *must* have been a fake, a forgery, a hoax. it doesn't matter what word you use to describe it, your whole claim is that the photo is fake but your evidence thus far is zero.

Stop dodging the question, how is the photo impossible to take? What makes that photo impossible? Please give us some actual evidence of fakery and not just your opinion. A claim must be backed up by evidence.

As a side note I genuinely wish for you to be right about this photo. I want it to be fake. If you were right it would be pretty fun to find out and I literally don't care if the world is flat or sphere (I mean it really makes literally no difference to me) but it'd be pretty interesting to me if it were flat. So while I think the NASA images are real based on my professional record as a CGI artist who's been using Photoshop for the last 17 years, I wouldn't mind them being fake either. I also take my constructive citisism pretty well so by all means prove me wrong when I say the photo is perfectly possible and thus real (or the very least no reason or evidence to be fake that I can see).
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: totallackey on February 13, 2019, 01:54:49 PM
You said the image was impossible which implies it is fake.  Are you being obtuse?

You also said you did not know how the image was composed or complied.  Your admitted ignorance means you cannot make the claim it is impossible.
I did say the image was impossible.

It is impossible based on the math involved.

Even if RE is true, the stated parameters of RE, combined with the stated parameters of the ISS, indicates the image is impossible.

Quit being so disingenuous with your silly characterizations.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: totallackey on February 13, 2019, 01:58:23 PM
... all conveniently caught with the purview of the ISS cupola from a supposed height of just over 250 miles above the earth's surface...

Gimme a break...LOL!
So, are you saying that because you found one camera on the ISS that uses a fish-eye lens that proves that all cameras on the ISS use fish-eye lenses?
I don't care what kind of camera is being used.

I wrote: "I do not believe the compilation of the "information," is correct and much of it is altered to render a false visual."

In response, I received this query from AATW: "OK, and what is your evidence for that belief and what are your qualifications and expertise in this area?
Surely that belief is based on something?"

I am writing the images presented by NASA present a false narrative of a globe earth and I have provided visual evidence they indeed do just that.
OK, and do you by chance have a source for the image you presented? Did you look into it in order to determine that it's actually impossible? Or are you just making an assumption? A quick google on it reveals it's an image taken out of the ISS cupola utilizing a fisheye lens. The cupola extends out beyond the surface of the ISS to provide essentially a 360 degree view with a 'horizon' of the edge of the station. How is it impossible for such a setup to be able to capture the whole of the Earth utilizing a fisheye lens? Sounds more like you need it to be fake, so you've decided it's fake without any investigation. Which is exactly what the video is essentially accusing FE'rs of doing.
You cannot capture the "whole," of the earth (per RE parameters) at the altitude of the ISS.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: totallackey on February 13, 2019, 02:11:01 PM
Totallackey... The title of this thread states this is your opportunity to prove the NASA images are fake. You presented an image from NASA and said impossible images like this are the reason. You don't need to specifically call something fake if you're calling it impossible and implying it's not real. Watch me do it;

Flat earth isn't real, it's not a thing, it's made up. On the other hand, Globe earth is real.

See how I didn't say flat earth was fake but still made the claim that is is fake? Real is an antonym of fake. By claiming something is impossible you're claiming the photo is not possible, if it were possible, it would be real while if it were impossible, it *must* have been a fake, a forgery, a hoax. it doesn't matter what word you use to describe it, your whole claim is that the photo is fake but your evidence thus far is zero.

Stop dodging the question, how is the photo impossible to take? What makes that photo impossible? Please give us some actual evidence of fakery and not just your opinion. A claim must be backed up by evidence.

As a side note I genuinely wish for you to be right about this photo. I want it to be fake. If you were right it would be pretty fun to find out and I literally don't care if the world is flat or sphere (I mean it really makes literally no difference to me) but it'd be pretty interesting to me if it were flat. So while I think the NASA images are real based on my professional record as a CGI artist who's been using Photoshop for the last 17 years, I wouldn't mind them being fake either. I also take my constructive citisism pretty well so by all means prove me wrong when I say the photo is perfectly possible and thus real (or the very least no reason or evidence to be fake that I can see).
I have responded to the thread offering my own take on NASA images.

You have consistently demonstrated the urgent need to interpret my writing in a false way.

You claim you want me to be right in my claim the images from NASA are fake.

Well, I got news.

And the news is this:

They are images.

That means they are real images.

You can see them and I can see them and all God's children can see them.

That does not mean that what is depicted by the images is a true characterization of the subject matter, much like your image, here:(http://www.goxtreme-action-cams.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Omni360_MOOD2.jpg)

Thanks for proving my point!
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: markjo on February 13, 2019, 02:52:37 PM
You said the image was impossible which implies it is fake.  Are you being obtuse?

You also said you did not know how the image was composed or complied.  Your admitted ignorance means you cannot make the claim it is impossible.
I did say the image was impossible.

It is impossible based on the math involved.
Would you care to show your math, including the focal length and field of view of the camera used?
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: ChrisTP on February 13, 2019, 03:22:19 PM
Totallackey... The title of this thread states this is your opportunity to prove the NASA images are fake. You presented an image from NASA and said impossible images like this are the reason. You don't need to specifically call something fake if you're calling it impossible and implying it's not real. Watch me do it;

Flat earth isn't real, it's not a thing, it's made up. On the other hand, Globe earth is real.

See how I didn't say flat earth was fake but still made the claim that is is fake? Real is an antonym of fake. By claiming something is impossible you're claiming the photo is not possible, if it were possible, it would be real while if it were impossible, it *must* have been a fake, a forgery, a hoax. it doesn't matter what word you use to describe it, your whole claim is that the photo is fake but your evidence thus far is zero.

Stop dodging the question, how is the photo impossible to take? What makes that photo impossible? Please give us some actual evidence of fakery and not just your opinion. A claim must be backed up by evidence.

As a side note I genuinely wish for you to be right about this photo. I want it to be fake. If you were right it would be pretty fun to find out and I literally don't care if the world is flat or sphere (I mean it really makes literally no difference to me) but it'd be pretty interesting to me if it were flat. So while I think the NASA images are real based on my professional record as a CGI artist who's been using Photoshop for the last 17 years, I wouldn't mind them being fake either. I also take my constructive citisism pretty well so by all means prove me wrong when I say the photo is perfectly possible and thus real (or the very least no reason or evidence to be fake that I can see).
I have responded to the thread offering my own take on NASA images.

You have consistently demonstrated the urgent need to interpret my writing in a false way.

You claim you want me to be right in my claim the images from NASA are fake.

Well, I got news.

And the news is this:

They are images.

That means they are real images.

You can see them and I can see them and all God's children can see them.

That does not mean that what is depicted by the images is a true characterization of the subject matter, much like your image, here:(http://www.goxtreme-action-cams.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Omni360_MOOD2.jpg)

Thanks for proving my point!
Right so what you're saying now just to be sure I understand, that the images are real (obviously, it's a real image, and I'll move past your pedantry once again) but what they depict within the image is not possible. So, do you think then that there was in fact a photo taken on the ISS and that image is just distorted or taken from a 360 camera or whatever and thus because it doesn't depict exactly how we would see it with our own eyes, it's an impossible image?

I'm really trying to understand your point of view here despite your hostility so either;

1. You think the image was faked and it was not taken on the ISS showing the real earth, in which case please provide evidence.

2. You think the image was taken on the ISS and you have a problem with how the camera has captured the earth and thus think it disingenuous, in which case I think that this is a misunderstanding, if you were stood at on the ISS about 2 meters from that window you would not be able to see the circle of earth. Cameras can capture 360 images or in the case with fisheye lenses, can capture a wider area than our eyes. if a fly can see in a similar way to a 360 camera that doesn't mean what the fly sees is impossible simply because you can't see that way yourself.

3. Image isn't real because you think ISS isn't real and if the if the ISS isn't real the image isn't real so the ISS isn't real so the image isn't real so the ISS isn't real. - infinite loop of thought that is a rabbit hole where you're plunging into a fallacy.

4. I've misunderstood, please explain

So far you may as well have said "it's impossible because reasons." and unless you back up your reasons I can only assume you're stuck with number 3. You're not making much sense to anyone here by the looks of it, please elaborate.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: Bastian Baasch on February 13, 2019, 03:24:41 PM
... all conveniently caught with the purview of the ISS cupola from a supposed height of just over 250 miles above the earth's surface...

Gimme a break...LOL!
So, are you saying that because you found one camera on the ISS that uses a fish-eye lens that proves that all cameras on the ISS use fish-eye lenses?
I don't care what kind of camera is being used.

I wrote: "I do not believe the compilation of the "information," is correct and much of it is altered to render a false visual."

In response, I received this query from AATW: "OK, and what is your evidence for that belief and what are your qualifications and expertise in this area?
Surely that belief is based on something?"

I am writing the images presented by NASA present a false narrative of a globe earth and I have provided visual evidence they indeed do just that.

So you then acknowledge your own ignorance to the matter and cherry pick an image from the ISS cupola taken by a camera with a fisheye lens and imply it's an image representative of all NASA images to support your conclusion that all NASA images are fake. Do a little research, and you'll find a strikingly similar
image claimed to have been taken by a camera with a fish eye lens.
https://blog.nationalgeographic.org/2010/06/02/astro_soichi-comes-back-to-earth/ (https://blog.nationalgeographic.org/2010/06/02/astro_soichi-comes-back-to-earth/)

And as Tom Bishop said:
Unless you've debunked all evidence it remains as evidence.
We are all eagerly awaiting your photoanalysis of all other NASA images or at least evidence that your provided is representative of all NASA images, but wait, it clearly is not since it was taken with a fish eye lens.

So what have learned today? totallackey here is being deliberately disingenuous by providing one image, claiming it is impossible in the face of evidence showing it was taken with a fisheye lens, and then further implying it is representative of all of NASA's other images, in essence handwaving loads of evidence with a weak and ignorant photoanalysis.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: BillO on February 13, 2019, 03:28:47 PM
It is impossible based on the math involved.

Even if RE is true, the stated parameters of RE, combined with the stated parameters of the ISS, indicates the image is impossible.
No, it's not.  That is exactly the kind of picture fisheye lenses were designed to take.  This has been pointed out multiple times in this thread.  Fisheye lenses can provide greater than 180 degrees of view.  I'm not sure why your not getting this.  Look them up.

If you are privy to some math that the rest of the universe is unaware of, then please share.

Quote
Quit being so disingenuous with your silly characterizations.
LOL!  How hilarious is this?  Your definitions, like your math seem to be your own.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: Curious Squirrel on February 13, 2019, 03:32:46 PM
... all conveniently caught with the purview of the ISS cupola from a supposed height of just over 250 miles above the earth's surface...

Gimme a break...LOL!
So, are you saying that because you found one camera on the ISS that uses a fish-eye lens that proves that all cameras on the ISS use fish-eye lenses?
I don't care what kind of camera is being used.

I wrote: "I do not believe the compilation of the "information," is correct and much of it is altered to render a false visual."

In response, I received this query from AATW: "OK, and what is your evidence for that belief and what are your qualifications and expertise in this area?
Surely that belief is based on something?"

I am writing the images presented by NASA present a false narrative of a globe earth and I have provided visual evidence they indeed do just that.
OK, and do you by chance have a source for the image you presented? Did you look into it in order to determine that it's actually impossible? Or are you just making an assumption? A quick google on it reveals it's an image taken out of the ISS cupola utilizing a fisheye lens. The cupola extends out beyond the surface of the ISS to provide essentially a 360 degree view with a 'horizon' of the edge of the station. How is it impossible for such a setup to be able to capture the whole of the Earth utilizing a fisheye lens? Sounds more like you need it to be fake, so you've decided it's fake without any investigation. Which is exactly what the video is essentially accusing FE'rs of doing.
You cannot capture the "whole," of the earth (per RE parameters) at the altitude of the ISS.
But the cupola as it's stated to exist on the ISS would allow such an image via the use of a fisheye lens. As I stated. All you've done is go 'nuh-uh' to the information about the image I provided. I'm once again forced to presume you aren't actually interested in any form of legitimate discussion or debate and are here to troll. Good day to you.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: BillO on February 13, 2019, 03:33:38 PM
You cannot capture the "whole," of the earth (per RE parameters) at the altitude of the ISS.
Perhaps not with any rectilinear lens we are capable of building, but you certainly can with a circular fisheye.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: JCM on February 13, 2019, 06:07:31 PM
That photo is obviously not the entirety of the earth, what makes you think that photo is showing too much of the Earth from one side?  Did NASA claim that photo or the ISS is capable of showing an entire hemisphere of the Earth in a single photo (even fisheye)?   Isn’t the first step to disprove that photo to display what the photo even is? Are you suggesting there is no “horizon” equivalent effectively cutting off the view prior to where the hemisphere ends as viewable for the ISS? That horizon for the ISS would reveal more and more of the Earth surface if the ISS were to change its altitude.  Obviously it’s not high enough in altitude to see anywhere near half the spherical Earth, no one has ever claimed it was.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: BillO on February 13, 2019, 08:11:18 PM
You can certainly get a shot of all that is visible from 400km away from earth with a fisheye.  However, that would not be an entire hemisphere - just what is visible.

Given a sphere of radius R and an observer a distance D from the sphere, the viewing angle a, subtended by the sphere to the observer will be given by:
a = 2 * arcsin (R/(R+D))

The earth has a radius of approximately 6371km
The ISS is approximately 408km from the earth’s surface.
Therefore we have:

a = 2 * arcsin (6371/6779) = 2 * arcsin (.9294) = 2* 68.34 = 136.7 degrees

Easily captured with a 180 degree circular fisheye.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: totallackey on February 14, 2019, 11:36:13 AM
I believe a great deal of the "information," in the images.

I do not believe the compilation of the "information," is correct and much of it is altered to render a false visual.

All of you have effectively agreed with my point.

NASA produces images that do not accurately depict things in a true way.

It is a false visual.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: ChrisTP on February 14, 2019, 11:42:42 AM
I believe a great deal of the "information," in the images.

I do not believe the compilation of the "information," is correct and much of it is altered to render a false visual.

All of you have effectively agreed with my point.

NASA produces images that do not accurately depict things in a true way.

It is a false visual.
A false visual taken with a camera on the ISS.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: totallackey on February 14, 2019, 11:57:26 AM
I believe a great deal of the "information," in the images.

I do not believe the compilation of the "information," is correct and much of it is altered to render a false visual.

All of you have effectively agreed with my point.

NASA produces images that do not accurately depict things in a true way.

It is a false visual.
A false visual taken with a camera on the ISS.
I don't care where it was taken.

It is a false visual rendering.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on February 14, 2019, 12:03:09 PM
I don't care where it was taken.
You should, that's the point. If I take a photo of something with a fish eye lens then it might not truly reflect reality - in the sense that straight lines may appear curved - but I still have to be looking at the something.
Where the photo is taken from is pretty much the entire point - NASA are claiming these photos are from space, as are many other space agencies both national and private.
If that claim is true and the photos are taken from the ISS which is orbiting the earth then the earth isn't flat.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: BillO on February 14, 2019, 07:00:51 PM
Just as a point of discussion folks, if you take a picture of a globe with a circular fisheye lens, there is only perspective distortion (close things look closer - far things look farther).  The perspective distortion of an earth image from 400km would be fairly intense and would tend to exaggerate objects (land masses/seas/clouds) that are nearest the camera.  However a fisheye lens would not distort the shape of a globe.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: Bastian Baasch on February 14, 2019, 07:19:17 PM
I believe a great deal of the "information," in the images.

I do not believe the compilation of the "information," is correct and much of it is altered to render a false visual.

All of you have effectively agreed with my point.

NASA produces images that do not accurately depict things in a true way.

It is a false visual.

How can you be this slow? We've already pointed out it was a fisheye lens. I gave you link which said the photo was taken with a fisheye lens. No one here is lying or presenting it as a picture taken from the ISS with a normal camera. It is explicitly said to be taken with a fisheye lens. And how does one image prove NASA's other images are fake? You have provided no evidence this one image is representative of NASA's other images.

In fact, let's test you. You claim NASA's other images are fake. Enlighten us with your superior photoanalysis that does not even take into account the kind of camera or lens used.

This is a picture taken with the Earth Polychromatic Imaging Camera onboard NOAA's Deep Space Climate Observatory (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Space_Climate_Observatory (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Space_Climate_Observatory))  orbiting the earth.

Image link: https://epic.gsfc.nasa.gov/archive/natural/2019/02/13/png/epic_1b_20190213002713.png (https://epic.gsfc.nasa.gov/archive/natural/2019/02/13/png/epic_1b_20190213002713.png)

The image isn't a composite or anything, it's one single frame. Tell us why it's fake without falling back to handwaving.


Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: stack on February 15, 2019, 04:46:25 AM
totallackey is under the conspiratorial impression that all images in or from space are conjured with the express and sole intent to further convince the masses that the earth is a globe. No other purpose than that. Not that we might ever use such data gathering for real purposes other than perpetuating the ruse.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: totallackey on February 15, 2019, 12:37:32 PM
I believe a great deal of the "information," in the images.

I do not believe the compilation of the "information," is correct and much of it is altered to render a false visual.

All of you have effectively agreed with my point.

NASA produces images that do not accurately depict things in a true way.

It is a false visual.

How can you be this slow?
I am not slow.
We've already pointed out it was a fisheye lens.
You got a mouse in your pocket?

Are you royalty?

Who tf is "we"?

Are you writing for others or the alts you have?
I gave you link which said the photo was taken with a fisheye lens. No one here is lying or presenting it as a picture taken from the ISS with a normal camera. It is explicitly said to be taken with a fisheye lens.
How can you be so slow?

I never claimed it was taken by any particular sort of camera.

You and supposedly other legitimate RE adherents have offered the type of camera used.

I write "supposedly legitimate," due to the fact you use the word,"we."
And how does one image prove NASA's other images are fake?
How can you be so slow?

I have, for the record, never stated in this thread any NASA images are fake, including the two I presented.

I have stated NASA images provide a false visual rendering of the subject matter.
You have provided no evidence this one image is representative of NASA's other images.
Don't need to.
In fact, let's test you. You claim NASA's other images are fake.
Again, where have I claimed NASA's other images are fake?

I have provided two images (purported to be from NASA) in response to a query posed by AATW:
OK, and what is your evidence for that belief and what are your qualifications and expertise in this area?
Surely that belief is based on something?

Enlighten us with your superior photoanalysis that does not even take into account the kind of camera or lens used.
First, enlighten the readers you have the ability to be intellectually and philosophically consistent.

Then I may consider writing down what you assign to me that I have never claimed to posses.

I have merely claimed I DO NOT NEED TO POSSESS superior photoanalysis skills when it comes recognizing NASA admitting to issuing composites, layered and shaded photographs, and other forms of BS.
This is a picture taken with the Earth Polychromatic Imaging Camera onboard NOAA's Deep Space Climate Observatory (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Space_Climate_Observatory (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Space_Climate_Observatory))  orbiting the earth.
Yeah, so?

Does that look like an image produced by, "10 different channels from ultraviolet to near-infrared."

Doesn't to me.

It looks like it has undergone further rendering.
Image link: https://epic.gsfc.nasa.gov/archive/natural/2019/02/13/png/epic_1b_20190213002713.png (https://epic.gsfc.nasa.gov/archive/natural/2019/02/13/png/epic_1b_20190213002713.png)

The image isn't a composite or anything, it's one single frame. Tell us why it's fake without falling back to handwaving.
Same with this image.

According to your own source, EPIC uses: "The Earth Polychromatic Imaging Camera (EPIC) takes images of the sunlit side of Earth for various Earth science monitoring purposes in 10 different channels from ultraviolet to near-infrared."

So the final image, as you present, must, by definition, be further rendered.

No telling what the rendering process produces.

In other words, a false VISUAL RENDERING, just like I originally wrote.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: totallackey on February 15, 2019, 12:40:39 PM
totallackey is under the conspiratorial impression that all images in or from space are conjured with the express and sole intent to further convince the masses that the earth is a globe. No other purpose than that. Not that we might ever use such data gathering for real purposes other than perpetuating the ruse.
There is nothing conspiratorial about my impression.

I have presented enough evidence, as have RE adherents in this very thread, that photo manipulation occurs across the board.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: ChrisTP on February 15, 2019, 12:55:55 PM
Totallackey is either trolling or doesn't understand, there is no reason to continue talking to him about this as he's unwilling to learn. Given he doesn't understand the difference between the pixel size of a bitmap image and a screen resolution I doubt he understands much to do with images or 'rendering' in general. He fails this thought experiment.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: Tom Bishop on February 15, 2019, 01:24:09 PM
Totallackey is correct. NASA already admits that many of their images are manipulated. And they won't even tells us which ones were and in what manner. It is already admitted that Photoshop is liberally used.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on February 15, 2019, 01:29:36 PM
Totallackey is correct. NASA admits that many of their images are manipulated. And they won't even tells us which ones were and were not, and if so, in what manner.
Yes. But to manipulate an image of an object you have to first have a photo of the object.
How are they manipulating photos of the earth taken from space if they're not in space?
Sure they composite sometimes, as I've said elsewhere a panorama photo you take on your phone is a composite, but in order to make it you have to be in front of the object you're taking a composite of.
The FE claim has to be surely that these entire photos are CGI, no? How do you have a photo of a globe earth taken from space if the earth is really flat and space travel is impossible?
So, back to the original post - the point of it was to show you have the necessary skills to detect fakery.
Do you?
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: Tom Bishop on February 15, 2019, 01:35:09 PM
How would passing the random test in the OP prove whether this earth was really photoshopped behind the moon's horizon or not?

(http://i.imgur.com/51I4IER.jpg)

Does passing the test in the OP mean that all of these analysis' are true and that NASA is fraudulent?
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: Curious Squirrel on February 15, 2019, 01:42:00 PM
How would this random test in the OP prove whether this earth was really photoshopped behind the moon's horizon or not?

The point of the test isn't to prove whether the Earth was photoshopped in that image. The point of the test is for those of you in the FE community to show you have actual knowledge of how faking a photo is done. Essentially a sort of litmus test. Do you actually have the knowledge to show a photo that is known for a fact to have been tampered with is fake? If you can't manage that, why would your claims on the fakery of NASA photos have a leg to stand upon?

We're back to this dichotomy of you claiming NASA (and others) are perpetuating a hoax of a magnitude unheard of in the history of the world, with billions even trillions of dollars flowing through it. But they can't manage to make a photo that a photoshop amateur can pick apart? So, the challenge is to essentially attempt to provide some legitimacy to the claims.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: ChrisTP on February 15, 2019, 01:46:17 PM
How would passing the random test in the OP prove whether this earth was really photoshopped behind the moon's horizon or not?

(http://i.imgur.com/51I4IER.jpg)

Does passing the test in the OP mean that all of these analysis' are true and that NASA is fraudulent?
Great! So this image is somehow prove fake, now can you give a source for where that image came from? A link to nasas website where it's used and stated to be real and not an artist depiction? Is that image even from NASA? Cite the sources.

EDIT: Also tom did you try this yourself on that very image?
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: Tom Bishop on February 15, 2019, 01:48:34 PM
How would this random test in the OP prove whether this earth was really photoshopped behind the moon's horizon or not?

The point of the test isn't to prove whether the Earth was photoshopped in that image. The point of the test is for those of you in the FE community to show you have actual knowledge of how faking a photo is done. Essentially a sort of litmus test. Do you actually have the knowledge to show a photo that is known for a fact to have been tampered with is fake? If you can't manage that, why would your claims on the fakery of NASA photos have a leg to stand upon?

We're back to this dichotomy of you claiming NASA (and others) are perpetuating a hoax of a magnitude unheard of in the history of the world, with billions even trillions of dollars flowing through it. But they can't manage to make a photo that a photoshop amateur can pick apart? So, the challenge is to essentially attempt to provide some legitimacy to the claims.

So, from what I understand, you are arguing that the earth might not be photoshopped behind the moon in the above image, and that NASA's fraudulence all hinges on the ability to detect some random person's random photo manipulation.

That sounds like a farce to me.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: ChrisTP on February 15, 2019, 01:49:38 PM
I did it too, looks like your proof of a fake image was faked.

(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/462006443403640834/545964663037362186/fixed.png)
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: totallackey on February 15, 2019, 01:53:34 PM
Totallackey is either trolling or doesn't understand, there is no reason to continue talking to him about this as he's unwilling to learn. Given he doesn't understand the difference between the pixel size of a bitmap image and a screen resolution I doubt he understands much to do with images or 'rendering' in general. He fails this thought experiment.
I do understand.

The OP states:
"Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!"

My initial response was directed to AATW...
How does picking out an item what was photshopped into one of a series of photos prove whether NASA's content is fake?
It doesn't. But what it does so is demonstrate that you have the necessary skills to tell real images from fake ones and are not just arbitrarily calling everything fake which doesn't fit in your world-view because of confirmation bias.
I do not believe I have witnessed any FE adherent label every image they see as "fake."
You replied:
I do not believe I have witnessed any FE adherent label every image they see as "fake."
Oh, so you think some images of the spherical earth from space are real then? Unless you're being pedantic and meaning literally every image ever of anything... But that would be a stupid thing to say given that there is a context.
I replied:
I do not believe I have witnessed any FE adherent label every image they see as "fake."
Oh, so you think some images of the spherical earth from space are real then?
I believe a great deal of the "information," in the images.

I do not believe the compilation of the "information," is correct and much of it is altered to render a false visual.
Since then, RE has been incessantly and falsely claiming my use of the word "fake."

The only times I have typed that word has been in response to these types of characterizations.


Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: Curious Squirrel on February 15, 2019, 02:00:22 PM
How would this random test in the OP prove whether this earth was really photoshopped behind the moon's horizon or not?

The point of the test isn't to prove whether the Earth was photoshopped in that image. The point of the test is for those of you in the FE community to show you have actual knowledge of how faking a photo is done. Essentially a sort of litmus test. Do you actually have the knowledge to show a photo that is known for a fact to have been tampered with is fake? If you can't manage that, why would your claims on the fakery of NASA photos have a leg to stand upon?

We're back to this dichotomy of you claiming NASA (and others) are perpetuating a hoax of a magnitude unheard of in the history of the world, with billions even trillions of dollars flowing through it. But they can't manage to make a photo that a photoshop amateur can pick apart? So, the challenge is to essentially attempt to provide some legitimacy to the claims.

So, from what I understand, you are arguing that the earth might not be photoshopped behind the moon in the above image, and that NASA's fraudulence all hinges on the ability to detect some random person's random photo manipulation.

That sounds like a farce to me.
That's not at all what I said above, but I suppose I should have expected your reply. For the record, the original image is a composite. So yeah, it's been through Photoshop (or a similar software tool). But that doesn't prove it's fake (as in not put together using real images), nor does it show that the person who posted it can actually tell a real image from a fake image. But I'm pretty sure the point of this challenge is either lost on you or you just enjoy being deliberately obtuse too much.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: totallackey on February 15, 2019, 02:01:40 PM
Totallackey is correct. NASA admits that many of their images are manipulated. And they won't even tells us which ones were and were not, and if so, in what manner.
Yes. But to manipulate an image of an object you have to first have a photo of the object.
Okay.
How are they manipulating photos of the earth taken from space if they're not in space?
Sure they composite sometimes, as I've said elsewhere a panorama photo you take on your phone is a composite, but in order to make it you have to be in front of the object you're taking a composite of.
Panoramic photos...
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/photography/tips-and-solutions/how-make-panoramic-photographs (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/photography/tips-and-solutions/how-make-panoramic-photographs)
"Almost every point-and-shoot, mirrorless, DSLR, and smartphone camera has built-in panoramic modes. Once you select this mode, the photographer pans the camera right or left, up or down, and the camera’s computer automatically begins taking photos and stitching them together into a single panoramic file. This is as easy as it gets!"
So, the photos are stitched together.

In other words, a composite.

Who knows if anything was put together correctly or if information was purposefully left out or if it was put together according to a prior worldview held by the person rendering the final product?
The FE claim has to be surely that these entire photos are CGI, no? How do you have a photo of a globe earth taken from space if the earth is really flat and space travel is impossible?
Nope.
So, back to the original post - the point of it was to show you have the necessary skills to detect fakery.
Do you?
We do not need the skills to detect fakery.

NASA has admitted fakery in the past.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: jcks on February 15, 2019, 02:04:30 PM
I did it too, looks like your proof of a fake image was faked.

(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/462006443403640834/545964663037362186/fixed.png)

I got similar results.

(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/468588675173842959/545968256670760961/Capture.PNG?width=1440&height=608)

Seems to me this comparison is false.

EDIT: Just to humor myself I made the offset levels similar to what was in the "exposed" photo. The black levels in the background are impossible unless you specifically masked out that section to make it appear as if it were a cut out.

(https://i.imgur.com/u8oWJD9.png)
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: ChrisTP on February 15, 2019, 02:09:06 PM
Yes which is exactly why it's necessary to have the skills to know when an image is intentionally manipulated. Tom has proven to himself and everyone ironically why the OP test was put out.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on February 15, 2019, 02:38:49 PM
I did it too, looks like your proof of a fake image was faked.

(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/462006443403640834/545964663037362186/fixed.png)
Well, that's embarrassing.
I did a bit of Googling and found a similar thing when a NASA image was shown to be "fake" - as in there was some copying and pasting - and it turned out in the original NASA image the pasted in earth wasn't even there. So like the above the evidence of fakery had itself been faked.
Which all demonstrates the point the OP is making - before declaring images as faked or manipulated you have to have certain skills.
I'd be the first to admit I don't have them. I've not seen any evidence that FE people do either, it seems to be mostly baseless claims of fakery and confirmation bias, no actual skills in detecting fakery or manipulation are evident.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: Tom Bishop on February 15, 2019, 02:48:20 PM
NASA relseased the image and then edited it out, as they always do when their fraud is exposed. It doesn't appear in all images.

Whoever put together that image did not indicate which version of the image they used for the left hand version. I find that it is more embarrassing that you did research the matter and find the source of the image.

Their fraud is still on the WayBackMachine, and is easily found.

http://lroc.sese.asu.edu is an official LROC website. NASA's logo is at the bottom of the page.

Image Link: https://web.archive.org/web/20170422035122/http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/ptif/download_file?fName=Earth_and_Limb_M1199291564L_color_2stretch_20151211_141513.tif

Warning: Very Large Image

I downloaded the image and adjusted the levels in Paint.net and...

(https://i.imgur.com/4NQtoCv.png)
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: Tom Bishop on February 15, 2019, 03:01:10 PM
Next I opened the current Feb 15 2019 version of the image and performed the same steps:

http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/ptif/download_file?fName=Earth_and_Limb_M1199291564L_color_2stretch_20151211_141513.tif

(https://i.imgur.com/0X6TEX0.png)

Looks like fraud to me. Does anyone want to argue that the above images are not photoshopped; either that the rectangle in the image means nothing, or that the rectangle was not photoshopped out in the current version?
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: ChrisTP on February 15, 2019, 03:25:21 PM
Good, thank you Tom for sourcing. After looking at the source images myself I can see there was photoshopping, but not so much to put the earth in, but to change the contrast of the moon surface compared to earth (an artistic preference they stated on their website).

"The Earth is much brighter (higher reflectance) than the Moon, especially from this angle; the Earth was captured near noon while the limb of the Moon was just appearing from the shadows of night, so the Moon was relatively dim. In the opening image the Moon and Earth were contrast-stretched separately to bring out details on the lunar surface. The two contrast stretch makes for a spectacular image, but it may be misleading in a purely scientific sense. Below you can see both the natural contrast and enhanced contrast - which do you prefer?"

http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/posts/895

So, I guess they selected around the earth and played with the contrast of the moon for a better presentation. They seem to have the actual source image in there too if you're interested to compare. So the image stating it was a 'copy paste' job was incorrect.

I'd be happy to keep analysing these kinds of images too as long as the sources are given and the locations are given too (ei, a link to the exact place on the official websites that the images come from where they claim the images as real).
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: Tom Bishop on February 15, 2019, 03:37:25 PM
Are you joking?

"That's not a NASA photoshop!! FAKE!"

"Well, it's a NASA photoshop, but done for innocent reasons! I'm now going to ignore that they edited it out in the current version"

From you link, the white rectangular outline does not occur in any of the three versions they give. The leftmost is the original contrast, and then the versions in the middle and right are with the "different" contrast:

(https://i.imgur.com/nxkXlCv.jpg)
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: ChrisTP on February 15, 2019, 03:45:08 PM
Are you joking?

"That's not a photoshop!!"

"Well, it's a photoshop, but done for innocent reasons! I'm going to ignore that they edited it out in the current version"

The white outline does not occur in any of the three versions they give with different contrasts:

(https://i.imgur.com/nxkXlCv.jpg)
I thought we were coming to an understanding. They stated on their website the exact changes they made which would explain the outline in one of their images, even if they realised the outline was there and later fixed it. It's pretty honest and they are obviously just beautifying the photos they've captured.

So yes, after we've seen the source images and they've even stated how they edited the photo very openly (which again, artistic choice on their part so they could show the public a pretty picture). The earth is still in the photo and it's still taken from the satellite as stated, there's no proof of that being untrue.

What you're doing here is saying "look it's photoshopped therefore space isn't real and nasa arent really taking photos from orbit! This means the earth is flat too because they are liars" which is a stretch when all they did was up the contrast on a dark photo and told us they did it.

Also regarding those 3 images not having the outline, look down further to the massive image you can zoom and scroll on, just below those 3 images, that has the contrast square. :)
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on February 15, 2019, 03:51:34 PM
What they're quite openly saying they're doing is the equivalent of models being airbrushed.
Literally no-one would see admission of airbrushing and conclude that the model doesn't exist or the photoshoot didn't happen or the whole thing is CGI.

NASA quite openly admit they manipulate images. That is not logically equivalent to claiming that all their images are completely fake and they can't really do space travel.
If NASA can't do space travel then that entire image is CGI. It has to be. So why the hell would they make composite CGI images. If you're going to CGI something then just render the whole thing, why bother rendering parts separately and then cutting and pasting parts?
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: totallackey on February 15, 2019, 04:04:04 PM
What they're quite openly saying they're doing is the equivalent of models being airbrushed.
Literally no-one would see admission of airbrushing and conclude that the model doesn't exist or the photoshoot didn't happen or the whole thing is CGI.

NASA quite openly admit they manipulate images. That is not logically equivalent to claiming that all their images are completely fake and they can't really do space travel.
If NASA can't do space travel then that entire image is CGI. It has to be. So why the hell would they make composite CGI images. If you're going to CGI something then just render the whole thing, why bother rendering parts separately and then cutting and pasting parts?
Wait a minute...

Your stating for the record you believe that CGI rendering (i.e., the movies Gravity, Avengers, Avatar, etc.) is done at once (i.e., all parts compiled for a singular shoot)?
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on February 15, 2019, 04:06:17 PM
Your stating for the record you believe that CGI rendering (i.e., the movies Gravity, Avengers, Avatar, etc.) is done at once (i.e., all parts compiled for a singular shoot)?
I seriously doubt they sit there copying and pasting elements. If you were rendering the above you'd create the moon and earth parts as separate objects but when you rendered the final image you wouldn't render a moon part and an earth part and then copy and paste one on to the other. I'm no expert in this sort of thing, admittedly, but surely you'd get the computer to stitch things together for you.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: totallackey on February 15, 2019, 04:13:15 PM
Your stating for the record you believe that CGI rendering (i.e., the movies Gravity, Avengers, Avatar, etc.) is done at once (i.e., all parts compiled for a singular shoot)?
I seriously doubt they sit there copying and pasting elements. If you were rendering the above you'd create the moon and earth parts as separate objects but when you rendered the final image you wouldn't render a moon part and an earth part and then copy and paste one on to the other. I'm no expert in this sort of thing, admittedly, but surely you'd get the computer to stitch things together for you.
Please be clear and unambiguous (I am no expert either).

Is it all rendered at once or not?
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: ChrisTP on February 15, 2019, 04:21:29 PM
Your stating for the record you believe that CGI rendering (i.e., the movies Gravity, Avengers, Avatar, etc.) is done at once (i.e., all parts compiled for a singular shoot)?
I seriously doubt they sit there copying and pasting elements. If you were rendering the above you'd create the moon and earth parts as separate objects but when you rendered the final image you wouldn't render a moon part and an earth part and then copy and paste one on to the other. I'm no expert in this sort of thing, admittedly, but surely you'd get the computer to stitch things together for you.
Please be clear and unambiguous (I am no expert either).

Is it all rendered at once or not?
For movies you get the original render then maybe some play in something like Adobe AfterEffects, but I don't think in this instance, if NASA wanted to make still images, that they would render everything separately then Photoshop it together. For a still image, everything would just be rendered in that shot. It would be a huge waste of time to render all the objects in a scene separately then stitch them together afterward.

If for example that were to happen (lets say I wanted to render the land of the moon then the earth separately and save them as different layers in photoshop so that I could play with the contrast or hue or whatever of the separate elements) you wouldn't see that rectangle around the earth because the earth would have been rendered with a transparent background, as would the moon. With a transparent background I have no need to mask anything in or out for my edits. :)

This post was aimed at AATW too. ^^
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: jcks on February 15, 2019, 04:26:40 PM
NASA relseased the image and then edited it out, as they always do when their fraud is exposed. It doesn't appear in all images.

Whoever put together that image did not indicate which version of the image they used for the left hand version. I find that it is more embarrassing that you did research the matter and find the source of the image.

Their fraud is still on the WayBackMachine, and is easily found.

http://lroc.sese.asu.edu is an official LROC website. NASA's logo is at the bottom of the page.

Image Link: https://web.archive.org/web/20170422035122/http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/ptif/download_file?fName=Earth_and_Limb_M1199291564L_color_2stretch_20151211_141513.tif

Warning: Very Large Image

I downloaded the image and adjusted the levels in Paint.net and...

(https://i.imgur.com/4NQtoCv.png)

This is the image after they had already manipulated it to include the color version of the globe. Doing this on the original image where the contrast is unaltered shows no square around the earth.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: Tom Bishop on February 15, 2019, 04:47:04 PM
First you guys were ranting that the photo was obviously faked, and now you are claiming that it was photoshopped by NASA!

Lets put aside that the versions of the photo do not show what you claim occurred, and lets also put aside that NASA clearly edited it out in the current version.

You failed at your image analysis. It was photoshopped. You are jokes. You clearly unqualified to tell us what is and is not a Photoshop, and what does and does not qualify as Photoshop analysis, and what would and would not qualify as a test of that Photoshop analysis.

There is zero reason to trust you. You are not good researchers, are dishonest and incompetent with your conclusions, and clearly only care about "proving" one thing.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: ChrisTP on February 15, 2019, 05:02:09 PM
No Tom, you presented two different versions of the same photo in a 'meme' that said heres a photo, heres that same photo with exposure upped. But those images weren't the same version. It's fair enough in the end you provided the actual sources of the images which were shown to be photoshopped, at which point, along with the source images, is an explanation of the edit.

I didn't fail at that, you failed to provide the original source image. The meme was in fact faulty... That's why I asked you to cite the source which you did. You can't say "haha you noticed there was a difference with the two images being claimed to be the same image, so you aren't qualified!!!"  ::)

Anyway I'm on you side here Tom, I'm willing to analyse these images with you but as I stated before, you need to provide the original images, not faulty memes.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: Tom Bishop on February 15, 2019, 05:14:23 PM
No Tom, you presented two different versions of the same photo in a 'meme' that said heres a photo, heres that same photo with exposure upped. But those images weren't the same version. It's fair enough in the end you provided the actual sources of the images which were shown to be photoshopped, at which point, along with the source images, is an explanation of the edit.

I didn't fail at that, you failed to provide the original source image. The meme was in fact faulty... That's why I asked you to cite the source which you did. You can't say "haha you noticed there was a difference with the two images being claimed to be the same image, so you aren't qualified!!!"  ::)

Anyway I'm on you side here Tom, I'm willing to analyse these images with you but as I stated before, you need to provide the original images, not faulty memes.

When I posted the image I heard calls that I didn't look at the original image, and that if I was a better researcher I would see that it was clearly faked.

No. You are the bad researchers. Those NASA analysis' are not faked. The original image shows that it was edited. The embarrassment is on your end, for talking out of your rear without researching the matter for truth, which is what the defense of RET amounts to. You can easily research these claims to find out the matter for yourself. That meme is not the only discussion of this. But you would rather deny and make excuses and accusations without demonstrating those accusations.

Now you claim, with the same level of supposition, that the photo was edited, but that it was honestly edited, despite you not having done the proper amount of legwork to demonstrate that. This is why you guys cannot be trusted at all. You do not properly research your claims and make random statements without demonstrating the knowledge to back up those statements.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: ChrisTP on February 15, 2019, 05:26:12 PM
The meme is like me doing this;

I guess the photos of Tom is faked and tom isn't real because I upped the exposure and can see an outline around him. Here is a side by side, the normal photo and the one with the exposure values upped. See that outline?

(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/462006443403640834/546017228055642143/fixed.png)

Well, the outline isn't actually in the first image... The meme is purposefully misrepresenting data, I saw that, I pointed it out, while also asking to cite the source so I could see for myself.

I'm not trying to trick you here tom, of course, I had originally no idea where they got the original photos from so how could I test it vs the source? I couldn't. Once you gave the source I could update my own sources information, since before you and the meme were the source of information.

Anyway, as you can clearly see from the website, even though the actual photoshopped image is in fact photoshopped, it is also stated why so there is no fowl play from "NASA". But there was fowl play from NASA haters.

Can you provide any other images where things may have been secretively faked by NASA to trick people? I'd be happy to see them.

EDIT: Also apologies if you find the image of you being used as offensive, I just used it as an example, not to deface you in any way.

Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: jcks on February 15, 2019, 05:55:11 PM
No Tom, you presented two different versions of the same photo in a 'meme' that said heres a photo, heres that same photo with exposure upped. But those images weren't the same version. It's fair enough in the end you provided the actual sources of the images which were shown to be photoshopped, at which point, along with the source images, is an explanation of the edit.

I didn't fail at that, you failed to provide the original source image. The meme was in fact faulty... That's why I asked you to cite the source which you did. You can't say "haha you noticed there was a difference with the two images being claimed to be the same image, so you aren't qualified!!!"  ::)

Anyway I'm on you side here Tom, I'm willing to analyse these images with you but as I stated before, you need to provide the original images, not faulty memes.

When I posted the image I heard calls that I didn't look at the original image, and that if I was a better researcher I would see that it was clearly faked.

No. You are the bad researchers. Those NASA analysis' are not faked. The original image shows that it was edited. The embarrassment is on your end, for talking out of your rear without researching the matter for truth, which is what the defense of RET amounts to. You can easily research these claims to find out the matter for yourself. That meme is not the only discussion of this. But you would rather deny and make excuses and accusations without demonstrating those accusations.

Now you claim, with the same level of supposition, that the photo was edited, but that it was honestly edited, despite you not having done the proper amount of legwork to demonstrate that. This is why you guys cannot be trusted at all. You do not properly research your claims and make random statements without demonstrating the knowledge to back up those statements.

That's because you didn't initially present the original image, you presented a facebook image that had a faulty before/after premise. Only after that image was shown to be false did you present the image you ACTUALLY were talking about, which itself was shown not to even be the original.

You are being deliberately disingenuous.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: Tom Bishop on February 15, 2019, 06:23:22 PM
You can reverse image search, you can search for  terms such as NASA Earthrise Fake. Easy to figure out. No excuses for bad research and bad conclusions.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: ChrisTP on February 15, 2019, 06:34:17 PM
You can reverse image search, you can search for  terms such as NASA Earthrise Fake. Easy to figure out. No excuses for bad research and bad conclusions.
and you could have presented the correct images in question. It doesn't matter anyway, there's a reason for the edit and it was no secret, they were very open about adding a little brightness to the photo.

In the end, I asked to see the original and you didn't even think to do so. You blindly trusted that incorrect meme as much as you complain that people blindly trust NASAs data. At least NASA are open about what they Photoshop, what's an artist's depiction etc. You blindly trusted that meme just as you blindly dismiss NASA as frauds and that is the original point.

Anyway the claim was the earth was photoshopped into the image, but it was merely a contrast boost and an explanation was already given by the people who took the photo. Move onto another photo, state the claim and cite the source.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: jcks on February 15, 2019, 06:40:34 PM
You can reverse image search, you can search for  terms such as NASA Earthrise Fake. Easy to figure out. No excuses for bad research and bad conclusions.

Why would I need to do that when you already provided the image? I tested your evidence as is. Your source was flawed and I suspect you knew that.

You have also failed to address the point of the *actual* original image (unaltered contrast) not showing any signs of the square around the earth after overexposing it.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: BillO on February 16, 2019, 01:56:42 AM
Tom has set loose a strawman and you guys are chasing it around.  This thread has now drifted beyond recognition.

I would think most of the RE crowd around here is well aware that NASA make composite images and are not suspicious of their intent in doing that.  The components of those composite images are real images.  Who cares if the resultant image is a composite?  It does not mean that those composites do not represent real situations or that all their published images have been 'faked' or misrepresented, or even manipulated in any way.  Given the the state of the art of imaging technology and what they can actually afford to put into space, it seems totally reasonable to me that the only way to demonstrate some situations is by combining separately recorded images.  One reason might be the dynamic range of the available image sensors, another the number and types of lenses they can realistically bring to bear.

I think the FE community needs to think about their position on this.  It's one thing to think the earth is flat.  It is quite another to take upfront comments by NASA about one or two images and then apply those to everything they do and at the same time twist honest admission into blanket subterfuge.  The logical fallacy in that must be obvious to even the most dyed in the wool conspiracy theorist and your adamantly standing behind such a blatant logical fallacy just hurts your position rather than bolster it.

I'm actually not sure why there is even an argument here.  I'm pretty sure NASA do not collect image data or publish images to try to convince the FE community of anything.  I'd bet my last dollar on that.  You simply can't prove every image they publish is a fake and because of that you should probably stop insisting they are.
Title: Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
Post by: TomFoolery on February 16, 2019, 02:22:11 AM
Tom has set loose a strawman and you guys are chasing it around.  This thread has now drifted beyond recognition.
What else is there to chase? We need something to chase  ;D ;D ;D