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Other Discussion Boards => Arts & Entertainment => Topic started by: Saddam Hussein on January 23, 2014, 07:33:23 PM

Title: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on January 23, 2014, 07:33:23 PM
Let's face it, we still have to have a thread for this.  Anyway, I guess this is the latest update on the game:

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/elder-scrolls-online-voice-cast-is-seriously-impressive/1100-6417293/

Yes, that cast is pretty cool.  Well, some of them are, anyway.  I'm not sure why they bothered listing Jennifer Hale up there with the big names, as if her inclusion is somehow impressive, but whatever.

Anyway, is there anyone here who's actually planning on getting this when it comes out in a few months?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on January 23, 2014, 08:15:31 PM
No.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Blanko on January 23, 2014, 08:22:54 PM
Nope.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on January 23, 2014, 08:48:11 PM
Certainly not.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Tintagel on January 23, 2014, 08:49:12 PM
Well, unlike the rest of these losers, I am.  So there. :P
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on January 23, 2014, 08:49:36 PM
Enjoy wasting money.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Tintagel on January 23, 2014, 08:52:07 PM
Enjoy wasting money.

Most MMO subscriptions are $14.99 monthly.  That is less than what I would pay for dinner and a movie.  That's 30 days of entertainment vs. 1 evening out.  You make no sense.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on January 23, 2014, 08:54:35 PM
>entertainment
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Tintagel on January 23, 2014, 08:57:06 PM
>entertainment

>subjective
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on January 23, 2014, 09:00:49 PM
Ha ha ha.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost Spaghetti on January 23, 2014, 09:13:50 PM
Let's face it, we still have to have a thread for this.  Anyway, I guess this is the latest update on the game:

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/elder-scrolls-online-voice-cast-is-seriously-impressive/1100-6417293/

Yes, that cast is pretty cool.  Well, some of them are, anyway.  I'm not sure why they bothered listing Jennifer Hale up there with the big names, as if her inclusion is somehow impressive, but whatever.

Anyway, is there anyone here who's actually planning on getting this when it comes out in a few months?

Nah, I don't like MMOs.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Tintagel on January 23, 2014, 09:35:51 PM
Let's face it, we still have to have a thread for this.  Anyway, I guess this is the latest update on the game:

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/elder-scrolls-online-voice-cast-is-seriously-impressive/1100-6417293/

Yes, that cast is pretty cool.  Well, some of them are, anyway.  I'm not sure why they bothered listing Jennifer Hale up there with the big names, as if her inclusion is somehow impressive, but whatever.

Anyway, is there anyone here who's actually planning on getting this when it comes out in a few months?

Nah, I don't like MMOs.

The real question is whether TESO will be able to pull me away from Everquest Next.  I'm thinking the winner will be EQN.  But time will tell. 

(I do like MMOs.)
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost Spaghetti on January 23, 2014, 09:46:16 PM
Let's face it, we still have to have a thread for this.  Anyway, I guess this is the latest update on the game:

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/elder-scrolls-online-voice-cast-is-seriously-impressive/1100-6417293/

Yes, that cast is pretty cool.  Well, some of them are, anyway.  I'm not sure why they bothered listing Jennifer Hale up there with the big names, as if her inclusion is somehow impressive, but whatever.

Anyway, is there anyone here who's actually planning on getting this when it comes out in a few months?

Nah, I don't like MMOs.

The real question is whether TESO will be able to pull me away from Everquest Next.  I'm thinking the winner will be EQN.  But time will tell. 

(I do like MMOs.)

How do you tolerate a server full of idiots?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Tintagel on January 23, 2014, 10:07:50 PM
Let's face it, we still have to have a thread for this.  Anyway, I guess this is the latest update on the game:

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/elder-scrolls-online-voice-cast-is-seriously-impressive/1100-6417293/

Yes, that cast is pretty cool.  Well, some of them are, anyway.  I'm not sure why they bothered listing Jennifer Hale up there with the big names, as if her inclusion is somehow impressive, but whatever.

Anyway, is there anyone here who's actually planning on getting this when it comes out in a few months?

Nah, I don't like MMOs.

The real question is whether TESO will be able to pull me away from Everquest Next.  I'm thinking the winner will be EQN.  But time will tell. 

(I do like MMOs.)

How do you tolerate a server full of idiots?

Well, I'm in a multi-game guild that is full of awesome non-idiots, so for me it's usually just a matter of turning off Global / General chat.  And also by not really doing the PVP thing.

But in the case I play a game my guild isn't in, I'm generally pretty good at finding the smart people.  They're the ones who speak in complete sentences.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Crudblud on January 23, 2014, 11:42:05 PM
I'm convinced there are no MMOs, no matter how well designed, that don't end up sucking as a result of terrible userbases. Based on my general experience of Bethesda fans, I don't think that's going to change, in fact it might even get worse.

Re: Voice cast. Who cares? Bethesda always rams star voice overs in their games and utilises them in an array of terribly underwhelming ways, usually by killing their characters 10 minutes after you meet them.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: fappenhosen on January 24, 2014, 12:07:24 AM
Most MMO subscriptions are $14.99 monthly.  That is less than what I would pay for dinner and a movie.  That's 30 days of entertainment vs. 1 evening out.  You make no sense.

The difference is, with dinner and a movie you get to fuck the guy that's been pretending to be a hawt girl for the last 3 hours.

I'm not quite convinced all these actors wanted to do this. I think its bread and butter stuff, despite video games making much more money than movies. I saw Clease looking at his watch.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Tintagel on January 24, 2014, 03:38:26 AM
I'm convinced there are no MMOs, no matter how well designed, that don't end up sucking as a result of terrible userbases. Based on my general experience of Bethesda fans, I don't think that's going to change, in fact it might even get worse.

Re: Voice cast. Who cares? Bethesda always rams star voice overs in their games and utilises them in an array of terribly underwhelming ways, usually by killing their characters 10 minutes after you meet them.

There are MMOs with wonderful communities.  Most of them are older - the original Everquest for instance (dating myself, perhaps?) has a great community.  There are always trolls... but well.  If you're bothered by those, what are you doing on TFES.org? 

I'm with you on voice cast, it's interesting but who cares, really... and I'm actually with you on what the playerbase of TESO is going to be like, at least at launch.  If my "main" guild doesn't go in with a decent presence I'll probably pass, because I know it'll be full of jerks.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on January 24, 2014, 04:04:41 AM
Enjoy wasting money.

Most MMO subscriptions are $14.99 monthly.  That is less than what I would pay for dinner and a movie.  That's 30 days of entertainment vs. 1 evening out.  You make no sense.

No, most MMO subscriptions are actually free, or else just require a one-time payment (which ESO will still have on top of the subscription fee, I should point out).  It's an outdated business model, and ESO is not following the trend, but instead boldly going where other MMOs have failed miserably before.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Tintagel on January 24, 2014, 04:36:08 AM
Enjoy wasting money.

Most MMO subscriptions are $14.99 monthly.  That is less than what I would pay for dinner and a movie.  That's 30 days of entertainment vs. 1 evening out.  You make no sense.

No, most MMO subscriptions are actually free, or else just require a one-time payment (which ESO will still have on top of the subscription fee, I should point out).  It's an outdated business model, and ESO is not following the trend, but instead boldly going where other MMOs have failed miserably before.

I'll build on Crudblud's point.  It is entirely possible to find great communities inside MMOs themselves. 

However, in MMO forums, and in threads where MMOs are being discussed, you will find predominantly grumpy, joyless specimens of humanity who believe that their experience as a gamer gives them the right to criticize every development decision and pronounce grandiose generalities about a subject which is far more complicated than they know.  This is becoming one of those threads.  I like MMOs, I do not like debating their merits with people who don't.

Perhaps I also enjoy them because I know when to exit conversations before they get frustrating. :)  Bye gang.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Blanko on January 24, 2014, 04:41:02 AM
We should make a FES guild in an MMO.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on January 24, 2014, 05:03:54 AM
I can honestly say that my experience with the GW2 community has been significantly better than my experience with the WoW community (which eventually became one of the reasons I stopped enjoying the game).

I think it's just in the numbers. At least, I remember WoW having a much better community server side back in the days. Once things got popular though..
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on January 24, 2014, 05:27:21 AM
We should make a FES guild in an MMO.
EJ for gm!
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Benjamin Franklin on January 24, 2014, 05:33:54 AM
I might give TESO a whirl. I used to love WoW back in the day (vanilla and BC), and I figure it could be pretty good. The only problem is most the people I game with (real life friends) tend to prefer doing stupid shit instead of getting to end-game (read:good) content.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on January 24, 2014, 05:39:40 AM
MMOs are just like regular games, except they're stuffed with endless hours of grinding before you actually get to play them. Eve Online tried to solve that problem but its still sort of wonky.

I'm waiting on Star Citizen to see how an MMO handles when it has literally no RPG elements like skills or abilities to deal with.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Snupes on January 24, 2014, 08:32:31 AM
I'm not quite convinced all these actors wanted to do this. I think its bread and butter stuff, despite video games making much more money than movies. I saw Clease looking at his watch.

That's the feeling I got as well, which sucks because I love John Cleese. :[ But yeah, it looked like he was just doing it to get paid, the watch glance kind of gave that away. Plus he just all-around didn't seem very enthusiastic, and his line-readings were kinda boring and uninspired.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on January 24, 2014, 08:52:17 AM
What's with the patch on his head?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Crudblud on January 24, 2014, 09:02:10 AM
>2014
>not having a patch on your head
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Lord Dave on January 24, 2014, 11:21:26 AM
I might look at ESO after they go f2p Ina year or so.  But that's it.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on January 24, 2014, 11:54:04 AM
Yes. Might.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: rooster on January 24, 2014, 12:24:24 PM
I don't get why checking the time means he doesn't care about what he's doing. Maybe he's got other stuff going on in his life, maybe he has a call he needs to make, or is getting hungry.

It's possible he's doing the bored sassy routine of looking at his watch, but I never much understood people buying into that cliche.

Example: when I was a tour guide I had to be aware of the time as I moved my little herd around the house since tours were supposed to run an hour long and sometimes you'd have the problem of another group running into you. But someone complained that I was looking at my watch in an email. That's how upset they were. My boss told me I had to then secretly steal glances when I turned away from my group so as not to appear disinterested. So that cliche assumption seems so baseless and empty to me.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: fappenhosen on January 24, 2014, 12:41:13 PM
I'm not quite convinced all these actors wanted to do this. I think its bread and butter stuff, despite video games making much more money than movies. I saw Clease looking at his watch.

That's the feeling I got as well, which sucks because I love John Cleese. :[ But yeah, it looked like he was just doing it to get paid, the watch glance kind of gave that away. Plus he just all-around didn't seem very enthusiastic, and his line-readings were kinda boring and uninspired.

Also, the guy from Spiderman thought his character was such a rich and interesting guy with so much inner turmoil, yet couldn't remember the line that captured the essence of this character. It's like a bad answer to the interview question "Tell me why you want to work for this company?".

I understand their apathy. It's the same reason why movie actors go back to stage acting:
In a theatre you have an actual audience and other actors who are acting right now, and you can't screw it up. Oh my! Then the after show party! Woo!
In movies there's you in a green suit with some white bobbles on it, and maybe a stand-in reading lines back to you from behind the camera, but that's OK cos at least you get to walk around and meet a few of the cast for the big scenes. Scenes might have to be recorded many times, but that's OK because the director might let you throw a few "interpretations" in. The catering is probably OK too.
In video game voice over, there's you in a dark recording studio, a script and a recording technician in a room next door. You will spend whole days reading variations of "Hmm, this door is locked from the other side". Bring your own sandwiches.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Tintagel on January 24, 2014, 01:12:41 PM
We should make a FES guild in an MMO.

I'd actually thought about that.  The MMOs I enjoy likely wouldn't fly with the crowd here, though :)
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rama Set on January 24, 2014, 01:16:27 PM
We should make a FES guild in an MMO.

I'd actually thought about that.  The MMOs I enjoy likely wouldn't fly with the crowd here, though :)

There are Furry MMOs?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Tintagel on January 24, 2014, 01:50:44 PM
We should make a FES guild in an MMO.

I'd actually thought about that.  The MMOs I enjoy likely wouldn't fly with the crowd here, though :)

There are Furry MMOs?

There are, in fact. 
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rama Set on January 24, 2014, 02:06:04 PM
Are those the MMOs you like?  Cmon, your public wants to know!
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: rooster on January 24, 2014, 03:05:15 PM
I'm not quite convinced all these actors wanted to do this. I think its bread and butter stuff, despite video games making much more money than movies. I saw Clease looking at his watch.

That's the feeling I got as well, which sucks because I love John Cleese. :[ But yeah, it looked like he was just doing it to get paid, the watch glance kind of gave that away. Plus he just all-around didn't seem very enthusiastic, and his line-readings were kinda boring and uninspired.

Also, the guy from Spiderman thought his character was such a rich and interesting guy with so much inner turmoil, yet couldn't remember the line that captured the essence of this character. It's like a bad answer to the interview question "Tell me why you want to work for this company?".

I understand their apathy. It's the same reason why movie actors go back to stage acting:
In a theatre you have an actual audience and other actors who are acting right now, and you can't screw it up. Oh my! Then the after show party! Woo!
In movies there's you in a green suit with some white bobbles on it, and maybe a stand-in reading lines back to you from behind the camera, but that's OK cos at least you get to walk around and meet a few of the cast for the big scenes. Scenes might have to be recorded many times, but that's OK because the director might let you throw a few "interpretations" in. The catering is probably OK too.
In video game voice over, there's you in a dark recording studio, a script and a recording technician in a room next door. You will spend whole days reading variations of "Hmm, this door is locked from the other side". Bring your own sandwiches.
John Cleese has also done quite a few videogame voice overs. If he didn't like it then why would he do it? He can't be hurting for money.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Tintagel on January 24, 2014, 03:41:44 PM
Are those the MMOs you like?  Cmon, your public wants to know!
I'll just let your imagination fill in those blanks.  It's probably less boring :)
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: fappenhosen on January 24, 2014, 04:27:13 PM
John Cleese has also done quite a few videogame voice overs. If he didn't like it then why would he do it? He can't be hurting for money.

I think he is. I think his exwifes ran away with the money.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: spank86 on January 24, 2014, 04:31:57 PM
I'm not quite convinced all these actors wanted to do this. I think its bread and butter stuff, despite video games making much more money than movies. I saw Clease looking at his watch.

That's the feeling I got as well, which sucks because I love John Cleese. :[ But yeah, it looked like he was just doing it to get paid, the watch glance kind of gave that away. Plus he just all-around didn't seem very enthusiastic, and his line-readings were kinda boring and uninspired.

That's just John Cleese all round those these days, If it wasn't for his divorce he'd still be retired.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Snupes on January 25, 2014, 06:51:43 AM
I don't get why checking the time means he doesn't care about what he's doing. Maybe he's got other stuff going on in his life, maybe he has a call he needs to make, or is getting hungry.

It's possible he's doing the bored sassy routine of looking at his watch, but I never much understood people buying into that cliche.

Example: when I was a tour guide I had to be aware of the time as I moved my little herd around the house since tours were supposed to run an hour long and sometimes you'd have the problem of another group running into you. But someone complained that I was looking at my watch in an email. That's how upset they were. My boss told me I had to then secretly steal glances when I turned away from my group so as not to appear disinterested. So that cliche assumption seems so baseless and empty to me.

That's true but, like I said, that's not the only reason I think he seems bored. Just look at his overall demeanor and his readings. John Cleese is not that uninspired of an actor. When John Cleese acts it's delightful, but those readings sounds very by-the-numbers and a little unprofessional. They're, sadly, exactly what I would expect to hear in an Elder Scrolls game. So unless they told him to sound bored...


John Cleese has also done quite a few videogame voice overs. If he didn't like it then why would he do it? He can't be hurting for money.

Surprisingly, he is. I watch him in interviews and stuff (was just earlier today) and, like fappenhosen said, his ex-wife took literally all his money. He had to go on tour again just to get some money to live off of. I hadn't thought about it before, but I guess I wouldn't be surprised if he was just doing this to earn more. Or maybe he did want to do it but ended up bored still, I dunno. Maybe they picked terrible points to film, but he just seems like he doesn't really want to be there and isn't enjoying himself.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: rooster on January 25, 2014, 06:58:25 AM
John Cleese has also done quite a few videogame voice overs. If he didn't like it then why would he do it? He can't be hurting for money.

Surprisingly, he is. I watch him in interviews and stuff (was just earlier today) and, like fappenhosen said, his ex-wife took literally all his money. He had to go on tour again just to get some money to live off of. I hadn't thought about it before, but I guess I wouldn't be surprised if he was just doing this to earn more. Or maybe he did want to do it but ended up bored still, I dunno. Maybe they picked terrible points to film, but he just seems like he doesn't really want to be there and isn't enjoying himself.
I had no idea. Well that sucks. You'd think with royalties and all that he'd still have enough.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: spank86 on January 25, 2014, 11:39:57 AM
John Cleese has also done quite a few videogame voice overs. If he didn't like it then why would he do it? He can't be hurting for money.

Surprisingly, he is. I watch him in interviews and stuff (was just earlier today) and, like fappenhosen said, his ex-wife took literally all his money. He had to go on tour again just to get some money to live off of. I hadn't thought about it before, but I guess I wouldn't be surprised if he was just doing this to earn more. Or maybe he did want to do it but ended up bored still, I dunno. Maybe they picked terrible points to film, but he just seems like he doesn't really want to be there and isn't enjoying himself.
I had no idea. Well that sucks. You'd think with royalties and all that he'd still have enough.

From what I remember she also got Half his future earnings and the figure for future earnings was ridiculously high.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: fappenhosen on January 25, 2014, 11:45:31 AM
I don't get why checking the time means he doesn't care about what he's doing.

Well the story is that these character's they're all narrating are rich, deep, engrossing characters. So if he's checking his watch then he can't be that engrossed. It could be bad timing and I can't believe an editor didn't spot that.

Imagine if he did that on stage. Oh the reviews the next day!
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: rooster on January 25, 2014, 06:38:44 PM
From what I remember she also got Half his future earnings and the figure for future earnings was ridiculously high.

What a terrible woman.

I don't get why checking the time means he doesn't care about what he's doing.

Well the story is that these character's they're all narrating are rich, deep, engrossing characters. So if he's checking his watch then he can't be that engrossed. It could be bad timing and I can't believe an editor didn't spot that.

After so many takes he could still be getting hungry regardless of how engrossing the characters are. From what I remember from Jade Empire and Fable, his voice work has always been entertaining and what you'd expect from John Cleese. I think it was just poor timing and a bad editor.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on January 25, 2014, 07:24:05 PM
Some people just like to keep track of time more than others.  I certainly do.  Even if I'm having a lot of fun, I'll still check the time occasionally.  As for his demeanor and enthusiasm, well, he's not exactly giving it a hundred percent, but I'd say he's still doing a far better job than most of the generic voice actors in an Elder Scrolls game.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Snupes on January 26, 2014, 05:04:21 PM
^ I guess my standards are just set high because he's John Cleese. I expect to be thoroughly amused by things that he does and possibly laughing my ass off, so I guess I'm just a little disappointed to see that it's not likely to be much more than a nice little cameo to hear his voice.

But yeah, sloppy editing could have made him look more bored than he is.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Crudblud on January 26, 2014, 11:57:52 PM
Having high standards for John Cleese any time in the past 25 years is just asking to be disappointed, really.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Snupes on January 27, 2014, 01:13:44 AM
Well I mean by general human standards, not you/balkno standards. :P
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Crudblud on January 27, 2014, 01:39:12 AM
Oh come on, I'm not that bad.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on January 27, 2014, 04:11:23 AM
Anyway, the game itself doesn't look too bad to me.  Nowhere near as terrible as people were fearing when it was first announced, at least.  They're sticking to the lore lore lore fairly well, too, and of course that's the most important part.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on January 27, 2014, 04:29:27 AM
World of Warcraft stuck to lore too and we all see just how well that worked out. Better start the ESO countdown to pandas.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Benjamin Franklin on January 27, 2014, 04:31:06 AM
World of Warcraft stuck to lore too and we all see just how well that worked out. Better start the ESO countdown to pandas.
Best MMO of all time?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on January 27, 2014, 05:21:36 AM
Best MMO of all time?

That really boils down to your opinion.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Benjamin Franklin on January 27, 2014, 06:33:10 AM
Best MMO of all time?

That really boils down to your opinion.
Well, of course it's debatable, everything is. I can't find any great sources, but WoW is the most subscribed by a huge margin. It had what, 12 million people at its peak? Ridiculous. I don't think there's a company in the world that would be mad if they had a gamely as ridiculously successful as WoW. And I say this as a person that quit the game after BC for being shit, but its legacy is undeniable.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on January 27, 2014, 06:50:49 AM
World of Warcraft stuck to lore too and we all see just how well that worked out. Better start the ESO countdown to pandas.

WoW didn't stick to lore at all.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on January 27, 2014, 10:58:28 AM
lore lore lore
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on January 27, 2014, 04:41:34 PM
World of Warcraft stuck to lore too and we all see just how well that worked out. Better start the ESO countdown to pandas.

WoW didn't stick to lore at all.

Go on.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Tintagel on January 27, 2014, 04:47:02 PM
World of Warcraft stuck to lore too and we all see just how well that worked out. Better start the ESO countdown to pandas.
Best MMO of all time?
"Most successful" is an argument one could make, in terms of subscriptions.  "Best" is subjective.  I didn't enjoy it.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on January 27, 2014, 08:39:44 PM
World of Warcraft stuck to lore too and we all see just how well that worked out. Better start the ESO countdown to pandas.

WoW didn't stick to lore at all.

Go on.

Vanilla didn't deviate too much, but TBC required a fairly large retcon before it even began and threw out the back story of every major character so the players had something to hit. I'd say WotLK was more lazy with lore than contradictory. Pandas were an ass pull, but I thought the lore they created for Pandaria was interesting.

Blizzard never showed much regard for the story, which is fine because it was largely a rip off anyway.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on January 27, 2014, 08:43:10 PM
Of what?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on January 27, 2014, 08:59:45 PM
Of what?

Warhammer, greek mythology, lovecraftian mythology, tolkien etc.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on January 27, 2014, 09:01:59 PM
So just like every other modern fantasy franchise.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on January 27, 2014, 09:05:50 PM
So just like every other modern fantasy franchise.

Kind of. The writers would call it a homage, but I think it's closer to ripping it off. It's one thing to carry across similarities, but the entire origin of Azeroth is more or less lifted directly from Lovecraft and Greek mythology with some names changed. Dwarves are exactly the same as the dwarves from tolkien..
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rama Set on January 27, 2014, 09:11:09 PM
So just like every other modern fantasy franchise.

No.  There are some franchises that take little to nothing from those influences; "The Chronicles of Amber" and "The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant" for example.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: spank86 on January 27, 2014, 09:39:27 PM
Of what?

LoTR.

90% of modern high fantasy IS though if you want to throw words like "rip off" around.

T
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Benjamin Franklin on January 27, 2014, 10:23:54 PM
World of Warcraft stuck to lore too and we all see just how well that worked out. Better start the ESO countdown to pandas.
Best MMO of all time?
"Most successful" is an argument one could make, in terms of subscriptions.  "Best" is subjective.  I didn't enjoy it.
That's a better word choice. However, if you were to make a say, top five list of greatest MMO's of all time, I'd be skeptical of putting any game at number one besides WoW.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: spank86 on January 27, 2014, 10:39:57 PM
World of Warcraft stuck to lore too and we all see just how well that worked out. Better start the ESO countdown to pandas.
Best MMO of all time?
"Most successful" is an argument one could make, in terms of subscriptions.  "Best" is subjective.  I didn't enjoy it.
That's a better word choice. However, if you were to make a say, top five list of greatest MMO's of all time, I'd be skeptical of putting any game at number one besides WoW.

(Essex)MUD?

Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Benjamin Franklin on January 27, 2014, 11:43:57 PM
(Essex)MUD?
I don't know what you're trying to communicate with this.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rama Set on January 27, 2014, 11:47:06 PM
So just like every other modern fantasy franchise.

No.  There are some franchises that take little to nothing from those influences; "The Chronicles of Amber" and "The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant" for example.

hipster fantasy

I was reading it before hipsters were a thing sonny boy. In my day needs got their ass kicked for reading Tolkien, Anthony or Zelazny so don't you get uppity.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on January 28, 2014, 12:24:27 AM
So just like every other modern fantasy franchise.

No.  There are some franchises that take little to nothing from those influences; "The Chronicles of Amber" and "The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant" for example.

hipster fantasy

I was reading it before hipsters were a thing sonny boy. In my day needs got their ass kicked for reading Tolkien, Anthony or Zelazny so don't you get uppity.

wat did u say about tolkien m8
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: rooster on January 28, 2014, 01:12:31 AM
So just like every other modern fantasy franchise.

No.  There are some franchises that take little to nothing from those influences; "The Chronicles of Amber" and "The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant" for example.

hipster fantasy

I was reading it before hipsters were a thing sonny boy. In my day needs got their ass kicked for reading Tolkien, Anthony or Zelazny so don't you get uppity.
Represent that Zelazny.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rama Set on January 28, 2014, 04:28:01 AM
So just like every other modern fantasy franchise.

No.  There are some franchises that take little to nothing from those influences; "The Chronicles of Amber" and "The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant" for example.

hipster fantasy

I was reading it before hipsters were a thing sonny boy. In my day needs got their ass kicked for reading Tolkien, Anthony or Zelazny so don't you get uppity.
Represent that Zelazny.

Thats my boy.  We tight.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: spank86 on January 28, 2014, 07:57:19 AM
(Essex)MUD?
I don't know what you're trying to communicate with this.

Being the first it was, at it's time, the greatest MMO, and being the first ought to have a claim to at least the top 5.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Alchemist21 on January 28, 2014, 06:40:15 PM
So Pong is in the top 5 video games of all time?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: spank86 on January 28, 2014, 07:00:09 PM
So Pong is in the top 5 video games of all time?

Potentially, although I'd argue breakout is far superior in terms of enjoyability.

Pong never held my attention span for long, it also didn't directly inspire a genre as such, It might have a look in in the top ten greatest tennis games.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on January 28, 2014, 07:27:17 PM
http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/map/tamriel

lore lore lore
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on January 28, 2014, 08:09:14 PM
Suddenly there's an island somewhere between Skyrim and Morrowind that isn't there in the third and fourth era..
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: EnigmaZV on January 28, 2014, 08:11:34 PM
Suddenly there's an island somewhere between Skyrim and Morrowind that isn't there in the third and fourth era..

Plate techtonics and vulcanism?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on January 28, 2014, 08:38:47 PM
Suddenly there's an island somewhere between Skyrim and Morrowind that isn't there in the third and fourth era..

Incorrect.  The island is between Vvardenfell and mainland Morrowind.

Also, it may just be that later cartographers overlooked that island because of how tiny and insignificant it was.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on January 28, 2014, 09:00:26 PM
bbrrlrbbbrlllllllllllllrlrlbrbllllllllllbrrbrrbrblrblrblblbrlblrblblrlblrblrblllbrlblrlbblll
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on January 28, 2014, 10:26:45 PM
Or it's because MMO makers don't give a shit about lore.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Benjamin Franklin on January 28, 2014, 10:47:28 PM
(Essex)MUD?
I don't know what you're trying to communicate with this.

Being the first it was, at it's time, the greatest MMO, and being the first ought to have a claim to at least the top 5.
Eh, if you're going to use the early adopter argument I'd go with Ultima Online.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Tintagel on January 28, 2014, 11:12:12 PM
(Essex)MUD?
I don't know what you're trying to communicate with this.

Being the first it was, at it's time, the greatest MMO, and being the first ought to have a claim to at least the top 5.
Eh, if you're going to use the early adopter argument I'd go with Ultima Online.
As a current Ultima Online subscriber, I would agree with this statement. 

And yeah, I play some MUDs too.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on January 29, 2014, 02:57:28 AM
Or it's because MMO makers don't give a shit about lore.

If they didn't give a shit about the lore, people would have found considerably more important things to complain about by now.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on January 29, 2014, 05:08:12 AM
Or it's because MMO makers don't give a shit about lore.

If they didn't give a shit about the lore, people would have found considerably more important things to complain about by now.

I don't agree.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on January 29, 2014, 05:14:37 AM
Also, Eastmarch appears to be covering north-western mainland morrowind at this point in time (as well as parts of Winterhold, apparently unless this map is really wonkers). So in a way, the island is between Skyrim and Morrowind.

(http://static1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131120225317/elderscrolls/images/1/1c/Eastmarch_Map.jpg)

And The Rift covers western mainland Morrowind.

(http://static1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131120225553/elderscrolls/images/8/8f/The_Rift_Map.jpg)

Skyrim's eastern border stretches all the way to the coast.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: spank86 on January 29, 2014, 07:57:01 AM
(Essex)MUD?
I don't know what you're trying to communicate with this.

Being the first it was, at it's time, the greatest MMO, and being the first ought to have a claim to at least the top 5.
Eh, if you're going to use the early adopter argument I'd go with Ultima Online.

It's up there, probably one of the most long lived.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: DDDDAts all folks on January 29, 2014, 10:41:08 AM
I played this a few weeks ago. It was pretty good, it's Skyrim online.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: rooster on January 29, 2014, 06:27:01 PM
I played this a few weeks ago. It was pretty good, it's Skyrim online.
I played some of a trial run and it wasn't too bad. Still, I'm just not a fan of MMOs.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on January 29, 2014, 07:06:44 PM
Also, Eastmarch appears to be covering north-western mainland morrowind at this point in time (as well as parts of Winterhold, apparently unless this map is really wonkers). So in a way, the island is between Skyrim and Morrowind.

http://static1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131120225317/elderscrolls/images/1/1c/Eastmarch_Map.jpg

And The Rift covers western mainland Morrowind.

http://static1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131120225553/elderscrolls/images/8/8f/The_Rift_Map.jpg

Skyrim's eastern border stretches all the way to the coast.

They're being described as regions of the world map.  They're not necessarily going to geographically correlate with the holds of Skyrim, or even the boundary between Morrowind and Skyrim.

I played this a few weeks ago. It was pretty good, it's Skyrim online.

Tell us more.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: DDDDAts all folks on January 29, 2014, 09:22:01 PM

I played this a few weeks ago. It was pretty good, it's Skyrim online.

Tell us more.

There's nothing more to tell really. I got through the first bit and then decided to not go any further until the game is released. I didn't want to spoil it.

Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: DuckDodgers on January 29, 2014, 10:29:29 PM
The armor and weapon crafting was a bit of a pain.  You could only craft your own race's gear and you need a race unique material, such as moonstone for Khajit. It makes sense but was frustrating to have dozens of materials for the other races right from the start and only find a small number of your own.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: DDDDAts all folks on January 30, 2014, 01:03:26 AM

I played this a few weeks ago. It was pretty good, it's Skyrim online.

Tell us more.

There's nothing more to tell really. I got through the first bit and then decided to not go any further until the game is released. I didn't want to spoil it.

Tell us what you did, where you went, etc.

I finished the beginning bit where you're trying to escape. If I say anymore it might spoil it for others.


Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on January 30, 2014, 01:34:54 AM
I finished the beginning bit where you're trying to escape.

This means nothing to those of us who haven't played the game.  You might as well have said "I did that thing for that guy."

Quote
If I say anymore it might spoil it for others.

Spoil what?  It was a beta.  Nothing that's supposed to be a big surprise and we shouldn't hear about beforehand would be in a beta, just like it wouldn't be in a trailer.  In any case, I wasn't asking for a plot summary or anything.  I was just wondering who you were playing as, where you were, what your general thoughts were, stuff like that.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: DuckDodgers on January 30, 2014, 04:07:58 AM
I played a dragonknight and was pretty bored with it, but I tend to hate melee classes.  Last beta I played a mage and enjoyed that.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: rooster on January 30, 2014, 05:42:43 PM
No, no, I meant what race did you play as?
You can choose any race. And you escape from a dungeon/jail.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: DuckDodgers on January 30, 2014, 06:37:44 PM
Khajit and Argonian. The Argonian/Nord/Dunmer starting area was a lot more fun than the Altmer/Bosmer/Khajit one.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Lord Dave on January 30, 2014, 11:20:40 PM
I just saw the wonderfully created cinematic trailer.

My first thought:
Yeah.... everyone's gonna stop fighting now that giant holes in the sky are raining down monsters of death.

Which means it's a bad trailer since that doesn't happen.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on January 30, 2014, 11:48:12 PM
Thanks for posting a link to said trailer, Dave. ::)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVMNQozxqos
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on January 30, 2014, 11:59:39 PM
Meh. I had no idea what was happening and none of that will be even remotely possible within the game anyway. It was pretty though.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Lord Dave on January 31, 2014, 12:06:22 AM
Thanks for posting a link to said trailer, Dave. ::)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVMNQozxqos
I assumed that you posted the link already and I was too lazy to see it.  You've been following it far more closely than I.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on January 31, 2014, 01:10:06 AM
19:45   Saddam   Blanko is no true Morrowind fan
19:45   Saddam   He has no understanding of lore lore lore
19:46   Blanko   Fucking lorefags
19:46   Saddam   lore lore lore
19:46   Saddam   It is important
19:46   Saddam   Anyway, Morrowind is inferior to Skyrim
19:47   Saddam   Prove me wrong
19:47   Blanko   Yes
19:47   Blanko   Morrowind is less casual than Skyrim
19:47   Blanko   Therefore it would be inferior to casual scum such as yourself
19:47      *** pizaaaaplanet joined #theflatearthsociety
19:47   Saddam   You talk to information kiosks
19:47      *** pizaaaplanet quit (Connection closed)
19:47   Saddam   And the combat is nerdy dice-rolling
19:48   Saddam   I bet you hated Dark Souls because there's actual skill involved in the combat
19:49   Blanko   You're implying there's actual skill involved in Skyrim
19:49   Saddam   Indeed
19:49   Blanko   But it's the same thing
19:49   Saddam   Incorrect
19:49   Blanko   You click the attack button
19:49   Saddam   In Skyrim, there are tactics
19:50   Blanko   And if you are in range of your target, your attack connects and you deal damage
19:50   Saddam   In Morrowind, it's just repeatedly hitting attack and hoping you get lucky
19:50   Saddam   Also, there are too many redundant skills
19:51   Blanko   In Skyrim, it's just repeatedly hitting attack and not having to care about supposedly trivial things such as character building in order to be successful
19:51   Saddam   lol, "character building"
19:51   Blanko   For a supposedly more action-oriented game, it actually makes no imprevement mechanically over Morrowind
19:51   Saddam   You mean going to a trainer to crank up your stats?
19:52   Blanko   There are no hitboxes and it's entirely range-based
19:52   Blanko   And in Skyrim in specific, for some reason there's a significant amount of delay between triggering an action and the action occurring
19:54   Saddam   Maybe that's because you're a PC-fag
19:55   Blanko   Well, yes
19:55   Blanko   Consolefags have to get used to it because it's in virtually every game
19:55   Saddam   Lies
19:56   Blanko   It's just what you get when your games run at 30fps
19:56   Blanko   But in Skyrim, it makes no difference
19:57   Saddam   Irrelevant
19:57   Blanko   Well, actually it does, it's even more unbearable at 30fps
19:57   Saddam   Why do characters in Morrowind talk like information kiosks?
19:57   Saddam   At least Skyrim makes them seem like people
19:57   Blanko   Because it's a more efficient methos of providing lore lore lore
19:57   Blanko   Also, I would disagree
19:58   Saddam   You select a topic and get a wall of text
19:58   Blanko   Since Skyrim reuses voice actors so much, it feels like you're talking to a lot of same people a lot
19:58   Saddam   That's not how people talk
19:58   Saddam   Yes, but I'm talking about the writing, not Bethesda's ridiculous approach to voice acting
19:59   Blanko   It's the same shit as in Skyrim
19:59   Blanko   What are you talking about
20:00   Saddam   In Skyrim, and even Oblivion to a degree, the dialogue seems like the way people talk
20:00   Saddam   The weird menu style in Morrowind is incredibly artificial
20:01   Blanko   I'm confused
20:02   Blanko   First you say you're talking about the writing, now it's about menu boxes again
20:02   Saddam   It's both
20:02   Saddam   The writing seems designed to fit the menu style
20:02   Saddam   That's why it's so weird
20:03   Blanko   I don't see how
20:04   Saddam   Parsifal_Droid2, weigh in on this
20:04   Blanko   They say shit, and then you pick topics based on what they said
20:04   Blanko   It's literally the same thing as in Skyrim and Oblivion
20:04   Saddam   But it seems more like a conversation in those games
20:04   Blanko   Except instead, Oblivion and Skyrim put your dialogue options in full sentences
20:05   Blanko   Which I would say is worse
20:05   Blanko   Because that makes it look like you don't really like to talk that much
20:05   Blanko   Morrowind leaves the rest of your side of the dialogue up to abstraction
20:05   Saddam   Or does it?
20:06   Blanko   Yes, it does
20:06   Saddam   Oh
20:06   Saddam   Okay
20:06   Saddam   I should get back to playing it, actually
20:06   Blanko   You are defeated
20:07   Saddam   I have been bested
20:08   Blanko   bamboozled
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on January 31, 2014, 01:34:52 AM
19:47   Blanko   Therefore it would be inferior to casual scum such as yourself

Shots fired!
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Lord Dave on January 31, 2014, 01:52:21 AM
I like how blanko thinks that swords hit instantly upon deciding to swing.
I also like how blanko assumes that sword fights don't require actively blocking.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Blanko on January 31, 2014, 02:02:40 AM
I like how blanko thinks that swords hit instantly upon deciding to swing.
I also like how blanko assumes that sword fights don't require actively blocking.

What game are we talking about?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on January 31, 2014, 05:28:58 AM
Thanks for posting a link to said trailer, Dave. ::)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVMNQozxqos
Elves don't look like that.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on February 01, 2014, 02:43:54 AM
Game hasn't even started yet, lore is doomed.

haha
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost Spaghetti on February 01, 2014, 01:40:08 PM
Thanks for posting a link to said trailer, Dave. ::)


Kaiiijjjuuuu!

Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on February 02, 2014, 05:41:31 PM
Game hasn't even started yet, lore is doomed.

haha

Be silent, Redguard.

http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/news/post/2014/01/31/ask-us-anything-variety-pack-12

So it looks like if you order this Imperial Edition thing, you can play as an Imperial.  I guess that's pretty cool.  But more importantly:

Quote
We know that not all of Tamriel will be available for exploration upon release. This is understandable as quality is more important than quantity. What I wonder is: how will the unavailable zones be separated from the rest? An invisible wall? An impassable fog? - Djem Erez

If an area isn’t ready to be explored yet, there will be natural terrain features preventing access. Slaughterfish will also discourage you from swimming too far out.

I approve of this.  Nobody likes invisible walls.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on February 02, 2014, 06:40:07 PM
How is restricting a race to a particular edition of the game "pretty cool" sadaam?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on February 02, 2014, 07:15:02 PM
There should exist no natural terrain that would prevent access from Cyrodiil to Hammerfell, Valenwood, Elsweyr, Black Marsh and Morrowind.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on February 02, 2014, 08:55:48 PM
How is restricting a race to a particular edition of the game "pretty cool" sadaam?

The general inclusion of Imperials is what's cool, not the restriction to one edition.

There should exist no natural terrain that would prevent access from Cyrodiil to Hammerfell, Valenwood, Elsweyr, Black Marsh and Morrowind.

They're talking about the initially unavailable zones, not the borders of Cyrodil.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Alchemist21 on February 02, 2014, 10:46:34 PM
What kind of natural terrain will they use that can explicably open up as the new locations are released?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on February 02, 2014, 10:50:26 PM
Um.. the same thing WoW did. Mountains, water, big locked gates, whatever. I don't think I've played an MMO where invisible walls exist.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on February 02, 2014, 11:06:57 PM
How is restricting a race to a particular edition of the game "pretty cool" sadaam?

The general inclusion of Imperials is what's cool, not the restriction to one edition.

The game hasn't even released yet and I can 1-up people just by paying an extra 20 bucks? Man, this game is going to be just great.

Vanity pets! Oh boy!




 :-\
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Lemon on February 02, 2014, 11:56:37 PM
I haven't bothered to lurk or read up on it, but will playing an Imperial really be worth it?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Lord Dave on February 03, 2014, 12:35:01 AM
What kind of natural terrain will they use that can explicably open up as the new locations are released?
Deep rivers with incomplete brides, thick jungle, lava, cliff with no path down.  Stuff like that.


Or just a steep hill all around.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on February 03, 2014, 02:44:36 AM
1. lore lore lore

2. lore money lore

3. money money lore

4. money money money

5. ?? ?? ?

6. Profit



See,  step 4 isn't because of MMOs. MMOs are because of step 4.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on February 03, 2014, 02:54:29 AM
I laughed and laughed.

Anyway, yes, ZeniMax are whores.  I'm just saying that having Imperials is better than not having Imperials.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Lord Dave on February 03, 2014, 03:00:04 AM
But what's the difference between having an imperial and not?  Do they not get an alliance?  Are they awesome with stats?  Do they start with more gold/items?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Lord Dave on February 03, 2014, 11:56:35 AM
But what's the difference between having an imperial and not?  Do they not get an alliance?  Are they awesome with stats?  Do they start with more gold/items?

Did you not read the article I linked? >o<
You linked an article?

Found it.

So there's not a whole lot of benefit for an extra $20.
Good to know its not worth it.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: spank86 on February 03, 2014, 12:06:02 PM
But what's the difference between having an imperial and not?  Do they not get an alliance?  Are they awesome with stats?  Do they start with more gold/items?

Did you not read the article I linked? >o<
You linked an article?

Found it.

So there's not a whole lot of benefit for an extra $20.
Good to know its not worth it.

they have to maintain a delicate balance between those who want to be able to get cools stuff and those who immediately whine "OMG P2W" the moment anything in the game is purchasable.

I think this threads that line quite well. It seems that digital preorders will also allow you to play any race in any alliance which is quite cool.

I think the idea is to make it semi-realistic since whilst you might get a few rogue elements in different alliances they don't want the whole server full.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Lord Dave on February 03, 2014, 12:23:30 PM
But what's the difference between having an imperial and not?  Do they not get an alliance?  Are they awesome with stats?  Do they start with more gold/items?

Did you not read the article I linked? >o<
You linked an article?

Found it.

So there's not a whole lot of benefit for an extra $20.
Good to know its not worth it.

they have to maintain a delicate balance between those who want to be able to get cools stuff and those who immediately whine "OMG P2W" the moment anything in the game is purchasable.

I think this threads that line quite well. It seems that digital preorders will also allow you to play any race in any alliance which is quite cool.

I think the idea is to make it semi-realistic since whilst you might get a few rogue elements in different alliances they don't want the whole server full.
I don't disagree.  I'm simply saying that it may not be enough of an incentive for players to purchase the collectors edition over the normal one.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: spank86 on February 03, 2014, 01:24:13 PM

I don't disagree.  I'm simply saying that it may not be enough of an incentive for players to purchase the collectors edition over the normal one.

You do get a little statue.

TBH I never think collectors editions are "worth it" in a value for money sense, they're only ever worth it if you look at it as owning a unique item that transcends value... otherwise known as having more money than sense.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on February 03, 2014, 07:11:27 PM
It's a collectors edition, the same as any other. Extra crap thrown in to please fans and to function as a 'collectible'.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: DuckDodgers on February 03, 2014, 07:44:22 PM
I've always found the idea of a digital collector's edition to be a bit oxymoronic.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Snupes on February 04, 2014, 12:47:49 AM
I don't disagree.  I'm simply saying that it may not be enough of an incentive for players to purchase the collectors edition over the normal one.

Collectors' editions are for collectors and huge fans of the series, they don't necessarily need to be sensibly priced to line up with whatever you get with them. They're for those who want extra things, like the statue, who just love the series to death. I mean, if I bought a Zelda collectors' edition it wouldn't matter to me if it affected the game at all, I'd just want whatever bonus stuff it comes with and the ability to say I own the collectors' edition.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on February 04, 2014, 01:36:31 AM
Being able to play a race no one else can play to me is a pretty big 1-up on everyone who didn't buy the Imperial edition. That's like giving an entirely different play style to people who paid an extra $20.

Also the game alone is $60, WoW was $40. At least WoW readily felt sorry for you before it stole the rest of your wallet rather than trying to jack more right at the start.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on February 04, 2014, 03:39:39 AM
I mean, if I bought a Zelda collectors' edition it wouldn't matter to me if it affected the game at all, I'd just want whatever bonus stuff it comes with and the ability to say I own the collectors' edition.

I for one Zelda.

Being able to play a race no one else can play to me is a pretty big 1-up on everyone who didn't buy the Imperial edition. That's like giving an entirely different play style to people who paid an extra $20.

You make it sound like the Imperials are some kind of master race that the munchkins will all flock to.  Gameplay-wise, they're pretty similar to the Dunmer in how middle-of-the-road they are.  I'm not seeing any big advantage in playing as one.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rama Set on February 04, 2014, 04:02:06 AM
I mean, if I bought a Zelda collectors' edition it wouldn't matter to me if it affected the game at all, I'd just want whatever bonus stuff it comes with and the ability to say I own the collectors' edition.

I for one Zelda.


Please stop it, markjo.  One-liners just don't work on the Internet.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on February 04, 2014, 04:29:50 AM
You make it sound like the Imperials are some kind of master race that the munchkins will all flock to.  Gameplay-wise, they're pretty similar to the Dunmer in how middle-of-the-road they are.  I'm not seeing any big advantage in playing as one.

It doesn't matter if there is an advantage or not, the point is that people who don't pay that $20 don't get to play them. Seems like a slap in the face to me.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: spank86 on February 04, 2014, 07:52:07 AM
You make it sound like the Imperials are some kind of master race that the munchkins will all flock to.  Gameplay-wise, they're pretty similar to the Dunmer in how middle-of-the-road they are.  I'm not seeing any big advantage in playing as one.

It doesn't matter if there is an advantage or not, the point is that people who don't pay that $20 don't get to play them. Seems like a slap in the face to me.

people who don't pay anything don't get to play at all...

you get what you pay for, in this case you pay a fair bit to get not so much.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost Spaghetti on February 04, 2014, 08:24:51 AM
I don't disagree.  I'm simply saying that it may not be enough of an incentive for players to purchase the collectors edition over the normal one.

Collectors' editions are for collectors and huge fans of the series, they don't necessarily need to be sensibly priced to line up with whatever you get with them. They're for those who want extra things, like the statue, who just love the series to death. I mean, if I bought a Zelda collectors' edition it wouldn't matter to me if it affected the game at all, I'd just want whatever bonus stuff it comes with and the ability to say I own the collectors' edition.

Zelda packaged a reworked version of ocarina of time with pre orders of wind waker and released a collectors edition which contained Zelda 1,2, oot, and majora's mask, plus a preview of the next game.

Now that's a collectors edition.

I'd pay more if you got a couple of the earlier elder scrolls with improved graphics thrown in.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Snupes on February 04, 2014, 08:44:13 AM
Zelda packaged a reworked version of ocarina of time with pre orders of wind waker and released a collectors edition which contained Zelda 1,2, oot, and majora's mask, plus a preview of the next game.

Now that's a collectors edition.

I actually still have the former lying around at my mom's house somewhere. Master Quest was wonderful. I think I might even have the second from when I got the Gamecube...I'm not completely sure, though.

Either way, they're also both, as much as I absolutely love Zelda, sadly collector's editions that are completely unnecessary because none of them really contain anything new (except Master Quest, so there's that), and I'm not sure they're really "collector's editions" in the normal sense because they're both essentially just packagings of older games in the series. The latter, especially, wasn't a part of any new Zelda game at all, so it was more of a "greatest hits" disc than anything.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Lord Dave on February 04, 2014, 11:11:41 AM
You make it sound like the Imperials are some kind of master race that the munchkins will all flock to.  Gameplay-wise, they're pretty similar to the Dunmer in how middle-of-the-road they are.  I'm not seeing any big advantage in playing as one.

It doesn't matter if there is an advantage or not, the point is that people who don't pay that $20 don't get to play them. Seems like a slap in the face to me.
Yeah but in a world where imperials look nearly identical to most of the other human races (minus the skin tone) making say.... A nord and calling him an imperial rogue is only going to be noticeable by the race tag on your profile.  Especially after you learn imperial style crafting.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on February 05, 2014, 12:08:47 AM
people who don't pay anything don't get to play at all...

you get what you pay for, in this case you pay a fair bit to get not so much.

By this logic people shouldn't be mad at all about pay-to-win games.

Yeah but in a world where imperials look nearly identical to most of the other human races (minus the skin tone) making say.... A nord and calling him an imperial rogue is only going to be noticeable by the race tag on your profile.  Especially after you learn imperial style crafting.

Paid bonuses are my pet peeve, is all. Especially highly visible ones. It's not the players I'm worried about, it's that the gaming company clearly wants your money, not interested at all in releasing an innovative or amazing game.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on February 05, 2014, 12:37:52 AM
Paid bonuses are my pet peeve, is all. Especially highly visible ones. It's not the players I'm worried about, it's that the gaming company clearly wants your money, not interested at all in releasing an innovative or amazing game.

lol. They're making another $15/month fantasy MMO. Innovation is the last thing on their minds at the moment, they want WoW level income.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on February 05, 2014, 12:58:12 AM
lol. They're making another $15/month fantasy MMO. Innovation is the last thing on their minds at the moment, they want WoW level income.

The overall way Elder Scrolls games are normally played left them a lot of room to improve upon Skinner Box WoW but they done goofed that up.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: DuckDodgers on February 05, 2014, 02:04:37 AM
Omg, they went pay to play, they are WoW now.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on February 05, 2014, 02:54:05 AM
Omg, they went pay to play, they are WoW now.

No, that's the point. They're not WoW and they'll never be WoW. They want to be WoW, and that is why they will fail.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: spank86 on February 05, 2014, 07:51:32 AM
people who don't pay anything don't get to play at all...

you get what you pay for, in this case you pay a fair bit to get not so much.

By this logic people shouldn't be mad at all about pay-to-win games.

not really, they just shouldn't play them if they're ridiculous.

All games that aren't free are pay to win.

This is pay for frippery, as most real games that people moan about being P2W are.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: DDDDAts all folks on February 05, 2014, 08:16:02 AM
Got another invite this weekend.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on February 06, 2014, 02:25:58 AM
same. We should all group up and proclaim how flat the land of Elder Scrolls is.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on February 06, 2014, 03:01:20 AM
Nirn.  It's called Nirn.

That's made up, Saddam. It's not a real word.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on February 06, 2014, 03:05:14 AM
No, it's a real word.  The lore confirms this:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Nirn
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on February 06, 2014, 03:11:58 AM
No, it's a real word.  The lore confirms this:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Nirn

Elder Scrolls land isn't a place and therefore has no word. It's not real. Snap out of it, Saddam. Come join us in reality, where the Earth is flatter than ever.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on February 06, 2014, 06:30:23 AM
And Skyrim belongs to us!
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost Spaghetti on February 06, 2014, 01:45:54 PM
the land of Elder Scrolls

Nirn.  It's called Nirn.

No. Tamriel is the land, Nirn is the planet, Mundus is the celestial/ oblivion plane.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on February 06, 2014, 06:33:54 PM
Yes, Nirn is the planet.  Therefore, the equivalent of the Flat Earth Society would be the Flat Nirn Society.

And Skyrim belongs to us!

Yes, but is it the same Skyrim that we know and love from Skyrim?  Apparently they've taken a hatchet to the Cyrodil that was depicted in Oblivion.  What if they've done the same with Skyrim and Morrowind?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on February 07, 2014, 05:23:27 AM
Takes so long to download this game. Its like 50 thousand terabytes. The graphics better be so good I can touch my monitor and be teleported to another universe.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on February 07, 2014, 05:52:06 AM
It won't be.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on February 08, 2014, 12:50:44 AM
The universe of 2007 videogame graphics, maybe.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on February 08, 2014, 03:14:51 AM
From what I've seen, the graphics aren't fantastic, but they're not 2007-quality either.  Don't be silly.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on February 08, 2014, 03:39:37 AM
Halo 3 came out in 2007. Obviously a linear shooter is going to have better graphics than its contemporary RPG peers, but ESO has a seven year advantage, and it still looks about as good as Halo 3.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on February 08, 2014, 05:25:24 AM
INTRO CINEMATIC PLACEHOLDER
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on February 08, 2014, 10:05:36 PM
You have been placed in the queue to log in.
Thank you for your patience.

Approximate Wait Time: 30 min. 2 sec.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on February 09, 2014, 02:46:33 AM
I'm about to play the beta myself. I will find IRUSHTOCVS and le troll him
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on February 09, 2014, 02:54:01 AM
He'll have to wait a long time though, since the game's files amount to 30 gigabytes.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on February 09, 2014, 03:50:48 AM
For a bunch of people that talk and talk about ESO lore, you guys sure aren't interested in playing the damn game.  >:(
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Lord Dave on February 09, 2014, 04:06:22 AM
For a bunch of people that talk and talk about ESO lore, you guys sure aren't interested in playing the damn game.  >:(
Is it open beta?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on February 09, 2014, 05:01:38 AM
No, but seeing as how this was the stress test phase they gave a key to everyone and their mother.


In other news, I've got to say I like how they did the classes. Classes just determine your special abilities, there is nothing stopping you from being a mage that runs around in heavy armor and uses a broadsword. Every class has the ability to use every armor and weapon, at least so far. There might be class-specific items later on.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Lord Dave on February 09, 2014, 05:34:07 AM
No, but seeing as how this was the stress test phase they gave a key to everyone and their mother.


In other news, I've got to say I like how they did the classes. Classes just determine your special abilities, there is nothing stopping you from being a mage that runs around in heavy armor and uses a broadsword. Every class has the ability to use every armor and weapon, at least so far. There might be class-specific items later on.
Except me.  I got nothing. :(
(Pretty sure I signed up)
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on February 09, 2014, 10:47:26 AM
For a bunch of people that talk and talk about ESO lore, you guys sure aren't interested in playing the damn game.  >:(
We talk about TES lore. Not strictly ESO lore.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Lemon on February 09, 2014, 01:05:31 PM
TES are supposed to be single player games >o<
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Snupes on February 09, 2014, 06:28:08 PM
I can't remember if I've asked this before, but have they made a statement to confirm that they'll still be making single-player Elder Scrolls games at its regular pace?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Blanko on February 09, 2014, 06:32:17 PM
I can't remember if I've asked this before, but have they made a statement to confirm that they'll still be making single-player Elder Scrolls games at its regular pace?

I wouldn't expect ZeniMax Online Studios to make a singleplayer TES game, especially since Bethesda is likely already working on one.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Snupes on February 09, 2014, 06:33:43 PM
Oh, I thought Bethesda was working on it to some extent as well.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on February 09, 2014, 06:36:51 PM
For ESO, Bethesda is the publisher. Zenimax is the studio.

The Bethesda studio works on single player games.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Blanko on February 09, 2014, 06:39:39 PM
Bethesda Softworks is publishing the game. Bethesda Game Studios makes singleplayer games. There's a very important distinction!!!
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Snupes on February 09, 2014, 07:14:06 PM
Ahh, alright, that's awesome then. Also possibly explains, partly, whe ESO feels so off
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on February 09, 2014, 07:41:09 PM
Of course, that doesn't mean that the higher-ups won't be saying to Todd Howard something like "Well, we're taking care of the fantasy market with that Elder Scrolls MMO, so you guys should just work on a different IP now."
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on February 09, 2014, 07:54:32 PM
Of course, that doesn't mean that the higher-ups won't be saying to Todd Howard something like "Well, we're taking care of the fantasy market with that Elder Scrolls MMO, so you guys should just work on a different IP now."

Sounds very plausible Saddam, especially considering that the last single player TES game is one of the best selling videogames of all time, and ESO has been received very critically so far.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on February 19, 2014, 03:12:06 AM
This is only vaguely related:

Imperial Guards vs Facebook. (http://imgur.com/a/ovYsq/noscript)
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on February 19, 2014, 06:49:31 AM
/b/ humour is above Saddam's head.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Blanko on February 19, 2014, 06:50:51 AM
That was stupid.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on February 19, 2014, 09:23:35 AM
That was stupid.

Are you surprised?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Blanko on February 19, 2014, 09:30:37 AM
That was stupid.

Are you surprised?

Not in the slightest.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Pete Svarrior on February 19, 2014, 09:32:02 AM
That was stupid.
That's exactly what makes it great.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on February 26, 2014, 08:51:39 PM
15:30   Saddam   Do you think TESO will manage to fuck up Morrowind's lore?
15:31   beardo   What a question
15:31   Saddam   Because the Tribunal and Great Houses and whatnot are going to be featured
15:31   Saddam   For example, maybe we'll see Vivec, and he'll have this whiny voice actor and come across as a complete fa...I mean, loser
15:32   beardo   If Vivec had the Oblivion Mer voice, I'd totally kill him.
15:33   Saddam   I don't know why they switched voice actors like that
15:33   Saddam   It's not like the guy died or anything
15:33   Saddam   Bethesda just needs to give Jim Cummings more roles
15:33   Saddam   That guy has mad skillz
15:33   beardo   Jiub Jiub Jiub
15:34   Tintagel   I'm just going to pretend TESO doesn't exist.
15:34   Saddam   lore lore lore
15:34   Saddam   Pretend it doesn't exist all you want, but Bethesda considers it lore!
15:34   Saddam   They will ruin all the single-player games!
15:35   Saddam   Like, they'll come up with a shitty origin story
15:35   Saddam   All the Daedra were aliens from the planet Zeist
15:35   Saddam   Something like that
15:35   Saddam   Or all the Mer were
15:36   beardo   TURNS OUT THE DIVINES ARE ACTUALLY ALIENS
15:36   beardo   AND THE DAEDRA ARE BAD ALIENS
15:36   Saddam   Yes
15:36   Blanko   On the notion of CHIM
15:37   Saddam   ZeniMax is going all over the place on that one
15:37   Saddam   On the one hand, of course they're not going to make Cyrodil a jungle
15:37   Saddam   But on the other hand, they're frightened of pissing off the fanboys even more
15:38   Saddam   I think their latest explanation is that CHIM somehow applied to the past as well as the future
15:38   Saddam   No, I don't get it either
15:38   Saddam   Apparently it will be explained in more detail in the game
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Blanko on February 26, 2014, 09:09:42 PM
[23:06:41] <-- Saddam has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Snupes on February 27, 2014, 01:51:28 AM
Can you explain CHIM in terms for someone who is way too tired to read up on it right now pretty please? :]
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Alchemist21 on February 27, 2014, 04:17:39 AM
Can you explain CHIM in terms for someone who is way too tired to read up on it right now pretty please? :]

Apparantly anyone that knows CHIM can reshape the land.

Quote
The line "CHIM. Those who know it can reshape the land. Witness the home of the Red King Once Jungled," is a reference to the Godhead/CHIM theory proposed by Michael Kirkbride, about how Tiber Septim (the aforementioned 'Red King') used his abilities to alter Cyrodiil from the jungle described in lore from earlier games, to the way it appears in Oblivion.
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Mythic_Dawn_Commentaries_3
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on February 27, 2014, 04:21:10 AM
CHIM is basically some kind of magical super-state where people can do things without being bound by the usual restraints of magic.  Mankar Camoran claimed in his writing that it was how Tiber Septim managed to transform Cyrodiil from a jungle into a more temperate grassland.  The event is also referred to here:

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/many-headed-talos
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Lord Dave on February 27, 2014, 06:45:35 PM
So its a plot hole filler?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on February 27, 2014, 06:49:45 PM
Yes.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on February 28, 2014, 03:26:39 AM
They used a literal deus ex machina to fix a plot hole. That is the very definition of not fixing the plot hole. But whatever. If Doctor Who can make a whole show where one guy has a screwdriver that does literally anything you happen to need it to when the plot demands it, then ESO can get away with this.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on February 28, 2014, 03:31:22 AM
Deus ex machinas are lazy writing, but that doesn't mean that the plot hole wasn't fixed.  It was fixed, just in a very lazy way.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on February 28, 2014, 03:33:56 AM
I would have accepted a group of wizards bent on wild climate change before I'd like to see the excuse "god did it!"

Such BS.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Snupes on March 06, 2014, 09:45:52 PM
http://tay.kotaku.com/elder-scrolls-online-impressions-from-an-mmo-hater-skyr-1537221720/@tinaamini

So this has me mildly interested, mostly in how each race's armour will be different and influenced by their culture and all. I still highly doubt I'll play it unless someone inexplicably buys me a subscription, but it's kinda a neat look at the game for those who haven't tried it.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on March 06, 2014, 11:09:35 PM
I'm a little confused about how the main story is going to work.  I had thought that the war was just a PvP thing that would always be going on throughout the course of the game, but now it's being tied into the story?  You have to win the war and become the emperor so that you can fight off Molag Bal for good?  But then what happens with the PvP area and the Dark Anchors - are they just not there anymore? ???

Also, it's not the first time I've heard complaints that a lot of the writing keeps talking about how you are the Chosen One, the sole hero, and other crap that basically expects you to ignore the fact that there are dozens of people running around in the exact same area doing the exact same thing you're doing.  It's really silly.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost Spaghetti on March 08, 2014, 04:08:40 PM
Also, it's not the first time I've heard complaints that a lot of the writing keeps talking about how you are the Chosen One, the sole hero, and other crap that basically expects you to ignore the fact that there are dozens of people running around in the exact same area doing the exact same thing you're doing.  It's really silly.

It's why I hate MMOs in general, apart from games like Eve you're living in a country/ world where the overwhelming majority of the populace is an adventurer for a living. I genuinely wonder how such a nation would function in the real world - what would be the effect of thousands of gold coins from ancient times being brought back into circulation on the economy? Would the local ecosystem would collapse like Christmas Island as roving adventurers plunder the fruits of the land and hunt the local beasts into oblivion?

I'd play an MMO which actually dealt with problems like this as the game went on; dealing with hyperinflation and resource scarcity, and a deadly arms race as magical artifacts from the depth os hell flood onto the streets.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on March 08, 2014, 05:06:21 PM
An actual world where everyone could shoot lightning from their hands would be chaos 24/7.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Lord Dave on March 08, 2014, 07:00:19 PM
Also, it's not the first time I've heard complaints that a lot of the writing keeps talking about how you are the Chosen One, the sole hero, and other crap that basically expects you to ignore the fact that there are dozens of people running around in the exact same area doing the exact same thing you're doing.  It's really silly.

It's why I hate MMOs in general, apart from games like Eve you're living in a country/ world where the overwhelming majority of the populace is an adventurer for a living. I genuinely wonder how such a nation would function in the real world - what would be the effect of thousands of gold coins from ancient times being brought back into circulation on the economy? Would the local ecosystem would collapse like Christmas Island as roving adventurers plunder the fruits of the land and hunt the local beasts into oblivion?

I'd play an MMO which actually dealt with problems like this as the game went on; dealing with hyperinflation and resource scarcity, and a deadly arms race as magical artifacts from the depth os hell flood onto the streets.

Since the currency of old is precious metals, its likely that the metal would be worth its current price and not the face value of the coin.
As gold was put into the system, its value would drop.  The nation would either make gold rare again somehow or switch to a new, less common currency base. 

But that's unlikely.  The most likely scenario is the death rate of adventurers would be too high to impact the economy co siderably.  This would lead to rules and guilds being formed to prevent people from going out adventuring without enough training.  Adventuring without a license would carry a huge fine.

Then, when things quiet down, it'll be discovered that all the old tombs have been fully plundered and a venturing will become a worthless occupation aside from escort quests.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Benjamin Franklin on March 08, 2014, 08:05:54 PM
It's why I hate MMOs in general, apart from games like Eve you're living in a country/ world where the overwhelming majority of the populace is an adventurer for a living. I genuinely wonder how such a nation would function in the real world - what would be the effect of thousands of gold coins from ancient times being brought back into circulation on the economy? Would the local ecosystem would collapse like Christmas Island as roving adventurers plunder the fruits of the land and hunt the local beasts into oblivion?

I'd play an MMO which actually dealt with problems like this as the game went on; dealing with hyperinflation and resource scarcity, and a deadly arms race as magical artifacts from the depth os hell flood onto the streets.
I, too, hate unrealistic video games.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on March 08, 2014, 08:52:36 PM
Also, it's not the first time I've heard complaints that a lot of the writing keeps talking about how you are the Chosen One, the sole hero, and other crap that basically expects you to ignore the fact that there are dozens of people running around in the exact same area doing the exact same thing you're doing.  It's really silly.

It's why I hate MMOs in general, apart from games like Eve you're living in a country/ world where the overwhelming majority of the populace is an adventurer for a living. I genuinely wonder how such a nation would function in the real world - what would be the effect of thousands of gold coins from ancient times being brought back into circulation on the economy? Would the local ecosystem would collapse like Christmas Island as roving adventurers plunder the fruits of the land and hunt the local beasts into oblivion?

I'd play an MMO which actually dealt with problems like this as the game went on; dealing with hyperinflation and resource scarcity, and a deadly arms race as magical artifacts from the depth os hell flood onto the streets.

A lot of MMOs eventually end up exploring this idea because of gold farmers and whatnot. There is a lot of inflation and deflation going on in many MMOs in regards to items and how much gold/gil/whatever is really worth... Final Fantasy XI comes to mind. Wonderful game, though.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on March 09, 2014, 04:44:38 PM
Quote from: comment
As Astro said, a lot of the quests have NPCs referring to you as the sole hero, even though you're quite clearly surrounded by dozens of players running and jumping about on the same damn quests. I remember speaking to a ghost in some ancient library I had 'uncovered', which was swarming with other players. He said to me "You're the first person to have walked these halls for thousand of years!"

It's like the writers are doing this on purpose!
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on March 09, 2014, 05:09:35 PM
So the quests aren't instanced then.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on March 09, 2014, 08:51:09 PM
So the quests aren't instanced then.

The NPCs are instanced, so you can't see other player's NPCs, but you can see other players.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost Spaghetti on March 10, 2014, 08:37:51 AM
Quote from: comment
As Astro said, a lot of the quests have NPCs referring to you as the sole hero, even though you're quite clearly surrounded by dozens of players running and jumping about on the same damn quests. I remember speaking to a ghost in some ancient library I had 'uncovered', which was swarming with other players. He said to me "You're the first person to have walked these halls for thousand of years!"

It's like the writers are doing this on purpose!

in fairness, the ghosts have always been a bit dodgy when it comes to their understanding of the present. Remember the ghost iin the Inn in Skyrim who was convinced you were his old adventuring buddy?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on March 23, 2014, 03:52:26 AM
Behold, the ugliest Khajiit ever:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJNvh7c0MkM
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on March 23, 2014, 06:50:38 AM
There are many different types of Khajits. Maybe that's one of them.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on March 23, 2014, 05:28:03 PM
There's only one type of Khajiit in the game (at least at launch), the Suthay-raht, and that really only determines their body structure.  I'm just going by the graphics and choppy animations.  I don't get it.  Some clips I've seen of the game have looked fairly decent graphics-wise, but others look like ass.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: fappenhosen on March 23, 2014, 05:31:57 PM
Saddam expects realistic rendering of fur, or so help him Ra there'll be trouble.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost Spaghetti on March 23, 2014, 06:53:38 PM
I think you've forgotten about Oblivion

And I don't know what was going on with them in Arena and Daggerfall:
(http://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/www.ign.com/9109/2011/08/Khajiit_Arena.jpg)
(http://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/www.ign.com/9109/2011/08/Khajiit_Daggerfall.jpg)

Basically, Khajiit are always ugly.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on March 27, 2014, 09:11:25 PM
Moar bad graphics:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJqQMk1vjyU
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on March 27, 2014, 09:26:05 PM
It's an MMO.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Snupes on March 28, 2014, 12:30:04 AM
Terrible game design. No AI, clear enemy patterns, dumbest WoW player could beat it etc. I watched a few Let's Plays of it.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on March 28, 2014, 01:50:56 AM
Terrible game design. No AI, clear enemy patterns, dumbest WoW player could beat it etc. I watched a few Let's Plays of it.

While this is a joke, I am in the beta and the game has been pretty terribly designed. Overall it is more or less a copy and paste of WoW with some Elder Scrolls characters thrown in. The first person view is neat but you can still feel the basic fights are still exactly the same. The class system is well done, but doesn't make a point to tell you that classes ultimately don't control what you can do. I won't be buying it in the future.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Lord Dave on March 28, 2014, 01:55:52 AM
Is it me or is the topography of the whole area totally different?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on March 28, 2014, 01:57:28 AM
Terrible game design. No AI, clear enemy patterns, dumbest WoW player could beat it etc. I watched a few Let's Plays of it.

While this is a joke, I am in the beta and the game has been pretty terribly designed. Overall it is more or less a copy and paste of WoW with some Elder Scrolls characters thrown in. The first person view is neat but you can still feel the basic fights are still exactly the same. The class system is well done, but doesn't make a point to tell you that classes ultimately don't control what you can do. I won't be buying it in the future.

But Rushy, you're the Chosen One!  You and you alone are the hero!
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Lord Dave on March 28, 2014, 02:04:45 AM
No saddam...
Guest is the chosen one.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Snupes on March 28, 2014, 04:43:52 AM
While this is a joke, I am in the beta and the game has been pretty terribly designed. Overall it is more or less a copy and paste of WoW with some Elder Scrolls characters thrown in. The first person view is neat but you can still feel the basic fights are still exactly the same. The class system is well done, but doesn't make a point to tell you that classes ultimately don't control what you can do. I won't be buying it in the future.

Yeah, I agree from what I've played. I was tentatively and cautiously excited, but meh, it seems like generic MMO galore. My interest quickly waned from thereon out. :[
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on March 28, 2014, 07:56:50 AM
And nobody was surprised.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on March 28, 2014, 01:45:47 PM
No saddam...
Guest is the chosen one.
I am the canonical Nord Dragonborn.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Blanko on March 28, 2014, 02:04:20 PM
No saddam...
Guest is the chosen one.
I am the canonical Nord Dragonborn.

he he he
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on April 07, 2014, 05:06:07 PM
Why is every gameplay video on youtube played in thirs person perspective? ???
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on April 07, 2014, 11:37:03 PM
Why is every gameplay video on youtube played in thirs person perspective? ???

After playing for a bit you realize that first person is a gimmick. Not only is it easier to play in third person, it offers real gameplay advantages. Is someone coming up behind you? You wouldn't know in first person, but you would in third. It's a sort of situational awareness god mode. First person is only useful when you have to aim, which means it isn't useful at all in ESO.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on April 07, 2014, 11:40:09 PM
Why is every gameplay video on youtube played in thirs person perspective? ???

After playing for a bit you realize that first person is a gimmick. Not only is it easier to play in third person, it offers real gameplay advantages. Is someone coming up behind you? You wouldn't know in first person, but you would in third. It's a sort of situational awareness god mode. First person is only useful when you have to aim, which means it isn't useful at all in ESO.

Of course third person has advantages over first person, but I believe first person is used in rpgs mostly for added immersion.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on April 07, 2014, 11:41:53 PM
Of course third person has advantages over first person, but I believe first person is used in rpgs mostly for added immersion.

Anyone who plays ESO for its immersion is going to have one hell of a bad time.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on April 07, 2014, 11:45:43 PM
Of course third person has advantages over first person, but I believe first person is used in rpgs mostly for added immersion.

Anyone who plays ESO for its immersion is going to have one hell of a bad time.

Truer words have never been spoken.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Snupes on April 08, 2014, 02:36:35 AM
Anyone who plays ESO [...] is going to have one hell of a bad time.

Truer words have never been spoken.

Fixed for truthfulness
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vongeo on April 08, 2014, 05:38:04 AM
No saddam...
Guest is the chosen one.
That was so exciting until I quoted it...
Fuck Guest
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on April 08, 2014, 04:45:38 PM
No saddam...
Guest is the chosen one.
That was so exciting until I quoted it...
Fuck Guest

Fuck you, Guest. >:|
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Lord Dave on April 08, 2014, 04:51:48 PM
No saddam...
Guest is the chosen one.
That was so exciting until I quoted it...
Fuck Guest

Fuck you, Guest. >:|
I am the only one this works for. 
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on April 08, 2014, 04:58:01 PM
No saddam...
Guest is the chosen one.
That was so exciting until I quoted it...
Fuck Guest

Fuck you, Guest. >:|
I am the only one this works for. 
No.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on April 08, 2014, 04:58:54 PM
Guest  Guest  Guest  Guest  Guest  Guest  Guest  Guest 
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on April 08, 2014, 05:18:20 PM
No saddam...
Guest is the chosen one.
That was so exciting until I quoted it...
Fuck Guest

It could be worse.  For example, beardo was fooled by it even after he quoted it.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on April 08, 2014, 07:09:31 PM
"Shortly after the game's launch Joystiq's Massively blog reported that players couldn't start the thirty days of free time included with their purchase until a subscription had been set up and—in "a strange state of affairs" and "most likely a mistake"—after a full month had been paid for." - Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Elder_Scrolls_Online#Reception)


Yeah, it was a mistake. Let's go with that.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Lord Dave on April 08, 2014, 07:28:17 PM
Oh its out?
How are the reviews?  Is it worth downloading the free trial when that's out?  Or will it be F2P in a few months?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on April 08, 2014, 09:28:47 PM
Vauxy just linked to the "Reception" section of its Wikipedia article.

I wouldn't go by that. Dave should watch some gameplay videos and player reviews before delving into ESO. From what I've seen, it's a mess... but Wikipedia will tell you otherwise.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on April 08, 2014, 10:32:32 PM
The game itself feels like one giant grind MMO, not like an actual Elder Scrolls game. You're forced down a very linear path of quests just like every other MMO out there. Yeah, it makes some interesting changes to the MMO sphere (such as classes not affecting your playstyle) but the overall game feels bland. MMOs see WoW as a success but they fail to see the WoW generation is tired of WoW.

I'm looking forward to games like Star Citizen, games that take the massive multiplayer aspect and do something really interesting with it, not copy and paste WoW's aging schema.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on April 08, 2014, 11:12:41 PM
The game itself feels like one giant grind MMO, not like an actual Elder Scrolls game. You're forced down a very linear path of quests just like every other MMO out there. Yeah, it makes some interesting changes to the MMO sphere (such as classes not affecting your playstyle) but the overall game feels bland. MMOs see WoW as a success but they fail to see the WoW generation is tired of WoW.

I'm looking forward to games like Star Citizen, games that take the massive multiplayer aspect and do something really interesting with it, not copy and paste WoW's aging schema.

The only MMO I've ever really enjoyed was Final Fantasy XI. I played WoW, had a max level character, and was in a guild... one day I quit and now I have no desire to go back. It's easy to get into that game if you have "friends" around who play it.

One MMO that has always captured my interest is EVE online, but I haven't tried it outside of a short free trial. The whole idea of EVE is extrememly appealing to me though. I want to pilot my own starship, damnit.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: fappenhosen on April 08, 2014, 11:29:28 PM
I fancied Eve until I saw the combat.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Tintagel on April 09, 2014, 02:15:00 AM
The game itself feels like one giant grind MMO, not like an actual Elder Scrolls game. You're forced down a very linear path of quests just like every other MMO out there. Yeah, it makes some interesting changes to the MMO sphere (such as classes not affecting your playstyle) but the overall game feels bland. MMOs see WoW as a success but they fail to see the WoW generation is tired of WoW.

I'm looking forward to games like Star Citizen, games that take the massive multiplayer aspect and do something really interesting with it, not copy and paste WoW's aging schema.

The only MMO I've ever really enjoyed was Final Fantasy XI. I played WoW, had a max level character, and was in a guild... one day I quit and now I have no desire to go back. It's easy to get into that game if you have "friends" around who play it.

One MMO that has always captured my interest is EVE online, but I haven't tried it outside of a short free trial. The whole idea of EVE is extrememly appealing to me though. I want to pilot my own starship, damnit.

EVE is one of the few games that really gets immersion right.  I've played EVE off and on for some years and always enjoy it.  The last corporation I was in slowly dissolved, however, and I haven't met a group I clicked with since.  EVE without a good corp just isn't very exciting, I'm afraid.  But it is a magnificent game, for sure.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on April 09, 2014, 02:16:24 AM
I fancied Eve until I saw the combat.

EVE isn't about shallow and pedantic combat. It's a game for super smart scientists with some time to kill in between PhDs.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: DDDDAts all folks on April 09, 2014, 08:21:56 AM
EVE's alright but I got bored with it after a while. I'm not sure if that's because I'm getting older and find computer games a bit same old same old.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: fappenhosen on April 09, 2014, 09:25:31 PM
I fancied Eve until I saw the combat.

EVE isn't about shallow and pedantic combat.

But that's what combat is. I mean I'm invoking Rush's Law here (I've never played it but that doesn't stop me having an opinion that's stated as fact). But from what I've seen combat is basically spinning around in a circle going pew pew pew. Elite was better than that.

But I think its cool that stories like this get published.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2547908/EVE-online-sees-biggest-battle.html
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Lord Dave on April 09, 2014, 10:40:57 PM
I fancied Eve until I saw the combat.

EVE isn't about shallow and pedantic combat.

But that's what combat is. I mean I'm invoking Rush's Law here (I've never played it but that doesn't stop me having an opinion that's stated as fact). But from what I've seen combat is basically spinning around in a circle going pew pew pew. Elite was better than that.

But I think its cool that stories like this get published.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2547908/EVE-online-sees-biggest-battle.html
Can someone explain to me why EVE has a protection racket going?  Is it game company run or player run?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on April 10, 2014, 02:43:52 AM
Can someone explain to me why EVE has a protection racket going?  Is it game company run or player run?

A company (CCP) develops and maintains the software, releases new content, etc. but as far as the actual game they do not touch it at all. CCP is very laissez-faire with Eve and it has gained them a non-stop increasing amount of subscribers since its release. It is the only MMO that has ever gained people at a consistent rate, rather than have an initial spike in popularity and taper off later. Other than game mechanics, the game's content is almost 100% player driven. There are NPC quests but they aren't fun in anything other than short burts and you only grind them for money. Eve is all about PvP. If you're not affecting another player in some fashion (good or otherwise) you are playing Eve wrong.

CCP is also the only gaming company that thinks griefing and scamming are legitimate parts of the game. If some guy scams you out of all your dough and you weren't smart enough to catch it, try whining to CCP. All you'll get is a "go fuck yourself." Albeit they might say it in nicer words.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Lord Dave on April 10, 2014, 10:17:14 AM
Can someone explain to me why EVE has a protection racket going?  Is it game company run or player run?

A company (CCP) develops and maintains the software, releases new content, etc. but as far as the actual game they do not touch it at all. CCP is very laissez-faire with Eve and it has gained them a non-stop increasing amount of subscribers since its release. It is the only MMO that has ever gained people at a consistent rate, rather than have an initial spike in popularity and taper off later. Other than game mechanics, the game's content is almost 100% player driven. There are NPC quests but they aren't fun in anything other than short burts and you only grind them for money. Eve is all about PvP. If you're not affecting another player in some fashion (good or otherwise) you are playing Eve wrong.

CCP is also the only gaming company that thinks griefing and scamming are legitimate parts of the game. If some guy scams you out of all your dough and you weren't smart enough to catch it, try whining to CCP. All you'll get is a "go fuck yourself." Albeit they might say it in nicer words.
So the money that wasn't paid was for a player run protection racket?  Bloody Hell.  Someone's making a lot of money off this game.  Some people are just way too into it if they agree to patrol territory as a second job.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on April 10, 2014, 10:35:27 AM
That's why Eve is terrible. Why would you want to worry about finances in a game AND real life?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on April 10, 2014, 11:44:48 AM
Have teso failed financially and turned free to play because nobody wanted to pay the monthly subscription yet?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on April 10, 2014, 01:08:39 PM
They get a free month to begin with, so we will have to wait.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost Spaghetti on April 10, 2014, 04:34:52 PM
I fancied Eve until I saw the combat.

EVE isn't about shallow and pedantic combat.

But that's what combat is. I mean I'm invoking Rush's Law here (I've never played it but that doesn't stop me having an opinion that's stated as fact). But from what I've seen combat is basically spinning around in a circle going pew pew pew. Elite was better than that.

But I think its cool that stories like this get published.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2547908/EVE-online-sees-biggest-battle.html

That's fairly awesome
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Snupes on April 11, 2014, 05:05:39 AM
They get a free month to begin with, so we will have to wait.

"Free".
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Blanko on April 11, 2014, 05:12:12 AM
A free 60 dollar month
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on April 11, 2014, 05:23:48 AM
Ha ha ha.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: fappenhosen on April 11, 2014, 10:55:49 AM
That's fairly awesome

I'm almost tempted but I don't think a 14 day trial is long enough. I can imagine in that time I'll have figured out how to rotate and raise and lower undercarriage. I don't like to pay for buttraep.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on April 12, 2014, 02:19:19 AM
"Free".

A free 60 dollar month

I was talking about the subscription itself, in response to beardo's question about the subscription itself.  Don't be pedantic.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vongeo on April 17, 2014, 07:00:54 PM
I got this with rich legacy trust fund money from selling isagenix (buy from my mom pls)

And I got a code that lets me play any race in any alliance.

Will someone help make my racially motivated decisions?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on April 17, 2014, 08:47:02 PM
It feels like it wouldn't really jibe with the lore to play as a race in a different alliance.  Not that it could never be justified, but I highly doubt there's anything in the writing that might actually address the discrepancy, and it's probably just something you'd be expected to ignore.  I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't have an issue with that, but if it were me, I'd just play as a member of my race's default alliance.

As for your race, I suggest you stick with the Orcs.  You have a lot in common with them.  They're big, green, have excessive elbows, are misunderstood by society, and live in strongholds.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vongeo on April 18, 2014, 09:17:03 PM
It feels like it wouldn't really jibe with the lore to play as a race in a different alliance.  Not that it could never be justified, but I highly doubt there's anything in the writing that might actually address the discrepancy, and it's probably just something you'd be expected to ignore.  I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't have an issue with that, but if it were me, I'd just play as a member of my race's default alliance.

As for your race, I suggest you stick with the Orcs.  You have a lot in common with them.  They're big, green, have excessive elbows, are misunderstood by society, and live in strongholds.
Not everyone in the same race has the same agenda Saddamit. And I think a high-elf awknowledged it.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on April 18, 2014, 11:42:58 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/zPtm2dA.jpg)

That's my motto.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vongeo on April 19, 2014, 01:36:19 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/zPtm2dA.jpg)

That's my motto.
I didn't, I have for other things.

Minecraft if like 25 bucks or something.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on April 19, 2014, 02:33:48 AM
It feels like it wouldn't really jibe with the lore to play as a race in a different alliance.  Not that it could never be justified, but I highly doubt there's anything in the writing that might actually address the discrepancy, and it's probably just something you'd be expected to ignore.  I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't have an issue with that, but if it were me, I'd just play as a member of my race's default alliance.

As for your race, I suggest you stick with the Orcs.  You have a lot in common with them.  They're big, green, have excessive elbows, are misunderstood by society, and live in strongholds.
Not everyone in the same race has the same agenda Saddamit. And I think a high-elf awknowledged it.

That's right, but my issue is that I don't think it will be addressed in-game.  You'll probably just get the exact same dialogue as everyone else, nobody raising an eyebrow over the fact that you're a foreigner who's apparently on their side.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vongeo on April 19, 2014, 03:46:35 AM
It feels like it wouldn't really jibe with the lore to play as a race in a different alliance.  Not that it could never be justified, but I highly doubt there's anything in the writing that might actually address the discrepancy, and it's probably just something you'd be expected to ignore.  I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't have an issue with that, but if it were me, I'd just play as a member of my race's default alliance.

As for your race, I suggest you stick with the Orcs.  You have a lot in common with them.  They're big, green, have excessive elbows, are misunderstood by society, and live in strongholds.
Not everyone in the same race has the same agenda Saddamit. And I think a high-elf awknowledged it.

That's right, but my issue is that I don't think it will be addressed in-game.  You'll probably just get the exact same dialogue as everyone else, nobody raising an eyebrow over the fact that you're a foreigner who's apparently on their side.
An elf said "Just cuz I'm a high elf doesn't mean I support the aldermari dominion. A person can be born anywhere regardless of race.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on April 19, 2014, 03:55:25 AM
I paid $5 for Minecraft.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on April 19, 2014, 01:04:53 PM
It feels like it wouldn't really jibe with the lore to play as a race in a different alliance.  Not that it could never be justified, but I highly doubt there's anything in the writing that might actually address the discrepancy, and it's probably just something you'd be expected to ignore.  I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't have an issue with that, but if it were me, I'd just play as a member of my race's default alliance.

As for your race, I suggest you stick with the Orcs.  You have a lot in common with them.  They're big, green, have excessive elbows, are misunderstood by society, and live in strongholds.
Not everyone in the same race has the same agenda Saddamit. And I think a high-elf awknowledged it.

That's right, but my issue is that I don't think it will be addressed in-game.  You'll probably just get the exact same dialogue as everyone else, nobody raising an eyebrow over the fact that you're a foreigner who's apparently on their side.
An elf said "Just cuz I'm a high elf doesn't mean I support the aldermari dominion. A person can be born anywhere regardless of race.

I know.  But that character works because the writing is different for him.  That's my whole point.  Now imagine if that elf was talking with a Nord accent, and was making the same jingoistic racial comments as most of the Nords do, without a word of explanation towards the fact that he himself is an Altmer.  In short, imagine if the game had treated him like just another Nord.  That wouldn't have worked.  It would have been weird and jarring.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vongeo on April 20, 2014, 05:56:01 AM
It feels like it wouldn't really jibe with the lore to play as a race in a different alliance.  Not that it could never be justified, but I highly doubt there's anything in the writing that might actually address the discrepancy, and it's probably just something you'd be expected to ignore.  I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't have an issue with that, but if it were me, I'd just play as a member of my race's default alliance.

As for your race, I suggest you stick with the Orcs.  You have a lot in common with them.  They're big, green, have excessive elbows, are misunderstood by society, and live in strongholds.
Not everyone in the same race has the same agenda Saddamit. And I think a high-elf awknowledged it.

That's right, but my issue is that I don't think it will be addressed in-game.  You'll probably just get the exact same dialogue as everyone else, nobody raising an eyebrow over the fact that you're a foreigner who's apparently on their side.
An elf said "Just cuz I'm a high elf doesn't mean I support the aldermari dominion. A person can be born anywhere regardless of race.

I know.  But that character works because the writing is different for him.  That's my whole point.  Now imagine if that elf was talking with a Nord accent, and was making the same jingoistic racial comments as most of the Nords do, without a word of explanation towards the fact that he himself is an Altmer.  In short, imagine if the game had treated him like just another Nord.  That wouldn't have worked.  It would have been weird and jarring.
I have found that to be true even within the same faction, I'm on an island of Orcs and they keep saying "BLAH BLAH BLAH, You don't understand our culture, outsider. Blah Blah. We aren't savages." Granted if I didn't click some of the lines of dialogue they wouldn't say it.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on April 20, 2014, 10:44:48 AM
Is the orcish player character not born in Orsinum?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vongeo on April 20, 2014, 05:50:05 PM
Is the orcish player character not born in Orsinum?
You is born in a plane of oblivion without a soul, then teleported to daggerfall. I can't find Orsinum on any maps, and people keep saying the brenton's burnt it to the ground, but then people are like "NEW ORSINUM WILL RISE AGAIN" and I still can't find that.

I wanna just kill elves and worship malacath, but that isn't an option.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vongeo on April 20, 2014, 05:55:33 PM
Wanna know what else kills my immersion, when you talk in chat you talk in your account name rather than your character name. I feel like if you are a roleplayer that is stupid.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on April 21, 2014, 12:44:05 AM
Is the orcish player character not born in Orsinum?
You is born in a plane of oblivion without a soul

No, that's just where you begin the game, Mannimarco having already sacrificed you to Molag Bal.  I can't find any confirmation of this online, but I think it's a fairly safe assumption that the player character (as opposed to player characters, because ZeniMax is sticking to that stupid "You are the Chosen One, the sole hero" thing) is from Cyrodiil, or at least has spent most of his/her life there.  That's what all the previous titles have done, after all, probably because it provides an in-universe justification for the fish-out-of-water setup.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vongeo on April 21, 2014, 06:54:04 AM
I created a wood elf that looks like a scamp and I am playing a flute and riddling people for money on some rock.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on April 21, 2014, 10:42:32 PM
I pity anyone who actually paid money to play this game.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vongeo on April 22, 2014, 01:48:22 AM
I pity anyone who actually paid money to play this game.
It isn't a bad game. It would be better if it wasn't an MMO, but its a fine game. I don't know anything that is wrong with it, making it not worth the money.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on April 22, 2014, 02:14:41 AM
So it's like nearly every other MMO ever then?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vongeo on April 22, 2014, 04:21:40 AM
So it's like nearly every other MMO ever then?
Idk, probably not.

Edit: Omg i found an ogrim 10/10 would buy again
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on April 22, 2014, 08:29:35 AM
So it's like nearly every other MMO ever then?

Yes.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on April 22, 2014, 08:38:19 AM
So it's like nearly every other MMO ever then?
probably not.
So it's like nearly every other MMO ever then?

Yes.
So which one is it?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vongeo on April 22, 2014, 12:20:22 PM
So it's like nearly every other MMO ever then?
probably not.
So it's like nearly every other MMO ever then?

Yes.
So which one is it?
Its too large of a generality to be true, even with the nearly.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on April 22, 2014, 05:39:35 PM
It's a pay-to-play MMO. It's designed to make you waste the largest amount of time possible while also making it seem like you're progressing when you actually aren't. Its a time sink, like all other MMOS with the exception of PSO, but that doesn't really count because its one of the best games ever made and not so much an MMO, more like an online action game with decent combat.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Lord Dave on April 22, 2014, 07:26:08 PM
It's a pay-to-play MMO. It's designed to make you waste the largest amount of time possible while also making it seem like you're progressing when you actually aren't. Its a time sink, like all other MMOS with the exception of PSO, but that doesn't really count because its one of the best games ever made and not so much an MMO, more like an online action game with decent combat.
+1
Though I may add TSW and Guild Wars since they're buy once play forever.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on April 22, 2014, 07:45:33 PM
All video games can be boiled down to just wasting time, if we're going to go down that road.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on April 22, 2014, 08:22:56 PM
All video games can be boiled down to just wasting time, if we're going to go down that road.

Not all would be considered wasting time within the context of the game itself.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vongeo on April 22, 2014, 08:55:36 PM
It's a pay-to-play MMO. It's designed to make you waste the largest amount of time possible while also making it seem like you're progressing when you actually aren't. Its a time sink, like all other MMOS with the exception of PSO, but that doesn't really count because its one of the best games ever made and not so much an MMO, more like an online action game with decent combat.
Wat?

In what way do you not progress in an MMO that you would progress in any other game? Is there not still a story? Have you played the game? In what ways do you waste time that you would not waste in another game?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on April 22, 2014, 09:10:36 PM
It's a pay-to-play MMO. It's designed to make you waste the largest amount of time possible while also making it seem like you're progressing when you actually aren't. Its a time sink, like all other MMOS with the exception of PSO, but that doesn't really count because its one of the best games ever made and not so much an MMO, more like an online action game with decent combat.
Wat?

In what way do you not progress in an MMO that you would progress in any other game? Is there not still a story? Have you played the game? In what ways do you waste time that you would not waste in another game?

MMOs are designed to get you to spend lots of time simply getting decent equipment and leveling (so you pay more money over time), where as in non-pay-to-play games these chores are easy and less time consuming. I am expressing displeasure at the MMO-model itself. I haven't played Elder Scrolls Online, so yeah I'm pulling a Rushy, but I've seen enough gameplay and read enough reviews to come to the conclusion that ESO doesn't stray that far from the typical MMO model, certainly not enough to validate me spending money on it at this time.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Benjamin Franklin on April 22, 2014, 09:53:39 PM
ITT: Ghost of V seems confused by how RPGs work. Hilarity ensues.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on April 22, 2014, 09:54:41 PM
ITT: Ghost of V seems confused by how RPGs work. Hilarity ensues.

So you're saying that MMOs aren't a huge time investment or that all RPGS are a huge time investment?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on April 22, 2014, 10:03:53 PM
A really good piece of gear can take weeks to grind out in MMO's (before being made irrelevant in the next patch). Very few, if any, RPGs are similar in that regard.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vongeo on April 22, 2014, 10:47:59 PM
If I played the game with intent to get levels and stuff I'd have it, But I'm dicking around playing music at a graveyard and pretending to be a scamp. Oh no the game gives me enough content to do stuff all the time whatever shall I do.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on April 22, 2014, 10:49:02 PM
It's a pay-to-play MMO. It's designed to make you waste the largest amount of time possible while also making it seem like you're progressing when you actually aren't. Its a time sink, like all other MMOS with the exception of PSO, but that doesn't really count because its one of the best games ever made and not so much an MMO, more like an online action game with decent combat.

By PSO, do you mean Phantasy Star Online?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Lord Dave on April 22, 2014, 10:52:45 PM
It's a pay-to-play MMO. It's designed to make you waste the largest amount of time possible while also making it seem like you're progressing when you actually aren't. Its a time sink, like all other MMOS with the exception of PSO, but that doesn't really count because its one of the best games ever made and not so much an MMO, more like an online action game with decent combat.

By PSO, do you mean Phantasy Star Online?
I thought it was Planet Side Online.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on April 22, 2014, 10:58:20 PM
It's a pay-to-play MMO. It's designed to make you waste the largest amount of time possible while also making it seem like you're progressing when you actually aren't. Its a time sink, like all other MMOS with the exception of PSO, but that doesn't really count because its one of the best games ever made and not so much an MMO, more like an online action game with decent combat.

By PSO, do you mean Phantasy Star Online?

Yeah.


If I played the game with intent to get levels and stuff I'd have it, But I'm dicking around playing music at a graveyard and pretending to be a scamp. Oh no the game gives me enough content to do stuff all the time whatever shall I do.

That's fine. It's great that you're enjoying the little things the game has to offer. However, that's a completely different aspect from how the game actually works in terms of progressing. If pretending to be a scamp and playing a virtual lute in a graveyard are worth $15 a month to you, more power to ya.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Benjamin Franklin on April 22, 2014, 11:25:14 PM
ITT: Ghost of V seems confused by how RPGs work. Hilarity ensues.

So you're saying that MMOs aren't a huge time investment or that all RPGS are a huge time investment?
ITT: Ghost of V uses generalizations and a false dichotomy. Hilarity continues.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on April 22, 2014, 11:32:56 PM
ITT: Ghost of V seems confused by how RPGs work. Hilarity ensues.

So you're saying that MMOs aren't a huge time investment or that all RPGS are a huge time investment?
ITT: Ghost of V uses generalizations and a false dichotomy. Hilarity continues.

ITT: Benjamin Franklin avoids basic questions and posts hip abbreviations in a imbecilic attempt at flaunting his e-peen.. Predictability, boredom, and over compensation ensue.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vongeo on April 23, 2014, 02:49:01 AM
It's a pay-to-play MMO. It's designed to make you waste the largest amount of time possible while also making it seem like you're progressing when you actually aren't. Its a time sink, like all other MMOS with the exception of PSO, but that doesn't really count because its one of the best games ever made and not so much an MMO, more like an online action game with decent combat.

By PSO, do you mean Phantasy Star Online?

Yeah.


If I played the game with intent to get levels and stuff I'd have it, But I'm dicking around playing music at a graveyard and pretending to be a scamp. Oh no the game gives me enough content to do stuff all the time whatever shall I do.

That's fine. It's great that you're enjoying the little things the game has to offer. However, that's a completely different aspect from how the game actually works in terms of progressing. If pretending to be a scamp and playing a virtual lute in a graveyard are worth $15 a month to you, more power to ya.
Define progressing in a game. How does one progress differently in an rpg that makes it false as opposed to other games with supposed progression?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on April 23, 2014, 04:39:58 PM
Define progressing in a game. How does one progress differently in an rpg that makes it false as opposed to other games with supposed progression?

Wait, what? Rephrase your question.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vongeo on April 23, 2014, 04:56:30 PM
Define progressing in a game. How does one progress differently in an rpg that makes it false as opposed to other games with supposed progression?

Wait, what? Rephrase your question.
You say that progress in the game is false. How is progress in the game false? How is it less real than other progress?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on April 23, 2014, 07:48:13 PM
Define progressing in a game. How does one progress differently in an rpg that makes it false as opposed to other games with supposed progression?

Wait, what? Rephrase your question.
You say that progress in the game is false. How is progress in the game false? How is it less real than other progress?

I never said it was "false". I just said it takes much longer to progress in MMOS than non-MMOS. Hence why I called them timesinks.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Lemon on April 23, 2014, 08:13:03 PM
Define progressing in a game. How does one progress differently in an rpg that makes it false as opposed to other games with supposed progression?

Wait, what? Rephrase your question.
You say that progress in the game is false. How is progress in the game false? How is it less real than other progress?

I never said it was "false". I just said it takes much longer to progress in MMOS than non-MMOS. Hence why I called them timesinks.

Lies.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vongeo on April 24, 2014, 01:15:15 AM
making it seem like you're progressing when you actually aren't.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on April 24, 2014, 01:30:02 AM
making it seem like you're progressing when you actually aren't.

You're taking what I said too literally. That was dramatic effect.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vongeo on April 24, 2014, 01:59:15 AM
I have yet to have a quest where I need to kill more than 6 things for.

Edit: well expect for a pvp quest

Also today I made 250g riddling.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Snupes on April 24, 2014, 02:11:57 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/aTvm5Gb.jpg?1)
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Blanko on April 24, 2014, 04:51:19 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/aTvm5Gb.jpg?1)

10/10
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on April 26, 2014, 05:36:26 PM
The reviews for this game are really demonstrating, once again, why the numerical rating system is so flawed.  Most of the reviews I've read are just shitting all over it, but they're still giving overall scores of 6/10 or 8/10.  Then websites like Wikipedia and Metacritic summarize the reception as being positive.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: fappenhosen on May 03, 2014, 09:33:22 PM
The reviews for this game are really demonstrating, once again, why the numerical rating system is so flawed.  Most of the reviews I've read are just shitting all over it, but they're still giving overall scores of 6/10 or 8/10.  Then websites like Wikipedia and Metacritic summarize the reception as being positive.

The rating system isnt flawed. Its the people using the system.

If I ask you what you thought of the restaurant you just ate in and you reply "Horrible I puked twice between courses. 9/10" then you don't know how to rate things.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on May 03, 2014, 09:48:40 PM
The rating system isnt flawed. Its the people using the system.

If I ask you what you thought of the restaurant you just ate in and you reply "Horrible I puked twice between courses. 9/10" then you don't know how to rate things.

The rating system and the people using the system are flawed. Basing your initial impression of something on someone else's opinion is a flawed way of thinking. Use your own damn senses to figure out whether you like something or not, you lazy bastard.

Video game reviews are especially flawed as a whole. Everyone finds games enjoyable in different ways, and expecting a review to tell you how you're going to enjoy it is moronic. The only thing worthwhile about reviews is if they tell you real problems with the game in question (glitchy mess, shitty localization, etc). Don't even get me started on the numbering system used by various outlets to review media...  >o<

IGN, you expect me to follow your review like it's the word of God, even knowing that you were probably paid off by the publisher? Ok.

Also, reviewing an MMO is tricky business. MMOs are always changing.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: fappenhosen on May 04, 2014, 03:03:22 PM
Use your own damn senses to figure out whether you like something or not, you lazy bastard.

Your point is well made. I can only wish you luck in trying to figure out which mushrooms are poisonous.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Lord Dave on May 04, 2014, 03:08:28 PM
Use your own damn senses to figure out whether you like something or not, you lazy bastard.

Your point is well made. I can only wish you luck in trying to figure out which mushrooms are poisonous.
Its simple: dont eat wild mushrooms.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: fappenhosen on May 04, 2014, 11:22:32 PM
Your point is well made. I can only wish you luck in trying to figure out which things to eat.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost Spaghetti on May 06, 2014, 08:43:05 AM
The reviews for this game are really demonstrating, once again, why the numerical rating system is so flawed.  Most of the reviews I've read are just shitting all over it, but they're still giving overall scores of 6/10 or 8/10.  Then websites like Wikipedia and Metacritic summarize the reception as being positive.

The numerical system can work well in tandem with the full review. There are some games which have serious flaws but are still really fun gmes. 007:Everything or Nothing comes to mind.The single player is pretty bad and the competetive mode sucks big hairy balls, but the co-op mode is one of the best co-ops I'veever played. It's hard as nailsand you both really need to work together to survive.. My main review would slate the game, but I'd still gie it 6/7 out of 10 just for the huge amount of fun in the coop.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: fappenhosen on May 06, 2014, 08:18:58 PM
That would require reading and thinking about how the game might fulfil one's gaming needs.

THE NUMERICAL RATING SYSTEM IS FLAWED!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on May 09, 2014, 01:25:10 PM
http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/05/08/the-elder-scrolls-online-ps4-and-xbox-one-reportedly-delayed

The consolefags shall have to wait.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on May 10, 2014, 02:16:28 AM
ESO, the game no one actually wants to play.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vongeo on May 10, 2014, 05:32:07 AM
ESO, the game no one actually wants to play.
Or just some people?

Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on May 11, 2014, 06:11:57 PM
It looks like ZeniMax does indeed care about the lore:

13:50   beardo   Here is the most accurate map of Tamriel http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130730213646/elderscrolls/images/3/3c/EmpireOfTamrielMap_Daggerfall.png
13:51   Saddam   Imperial Province
13:51   Blanko   Is that desert in the south?
13:52   Blanko   Oh
13:52   Saddam   No, that's just the parchment being faded or something
13:52   Blanko   I guess it's just shitty background
13:52   Saddam   It captures the lore element well, at least
13:52   Saddam   Better than Skyrim's fucking GPS-style map
13:53   Saddam   Way to spoil the mood, Bethesda
13:53   beardo   http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140304125449/elderscrolls/images/8/8e/Stros_M%27Kai_Map.png
13:53   Blanko   b-but muh user convenience
13:53   Blanko   BAAAAWWWWWWW
13:53   Saddam   At least with the earlier games it felt like you were looking at a map
13:54   Saddam   Rather than taking out your smartphone and looking up Google Earth
13:54   Saddam   beardo: That map is accurate
13:54   beardo   Does this exist in Redguard? http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130621142813/elderscrolls/images/6/6d/Stros_M%27Kai_%28Online%29.jpg
13:55   Saddam   Oh, yes, it does
13:55   Saddam   That's the statue of Hunding, it looks like
13:55   beardo   Okay
13:55   Blanko   w0w
13:55   Blanko   The developers of TESO actually played Redguard?
13:55   Saddam   Only in Redguard, it looks a lot shittier
13:55   beardo   I bet it looks just as goot too, eh?
13:55   Blanko   shit tier
13:55   beardo   and good
13:55   beardo   okok
13:56   Saddam   I think TESO depicted Stros M'Kai quite faithfully to Redguard
13:56   Blanko   Can we ever talk about anything else
13:57   beardo   Yes. They're depicting the world from one of the least well known TES games fatefully.
13:57   Saddam   Power armor and energy weapons
13:57   beardo   Instead what do they do to Windhelm
13:57   Saddam   Hey, maybe they were fans
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on May 11, 2014, 08:43:53 PM
TES is the least interesting fantasy series I've ever played.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on May 11, 2014, 10:26:13 PM
TES is a deep and engaging fantasy series with lore lore lore.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on May 12, 2014, 12:05:38 AM
Lore galore.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on May 12, 2014, 03:17:07 AM
13:53   Saddam   At least with the earlier games it felt like you were looking at a map
13:54   Saddam   Rather than taking out your smartphone and looking up Google Earth

Wow. You are literally the worst.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on May 12, 2014, 03:27:36 AM
13:53   Saddam   At least with the earlier games it felt like you were looking at a map
13:54   Saddam   Rather than taking out your smartphone and looking up Google Earth

Wow. You are literally the worst.

Yeah Saddam me and Rushy like literally can't even
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on May 12, 2014, 03:49:35 AM
That's just one of numerous reasons why Morrowind and Oblivion are far better than Skyrim.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on May 12, 2014, 04:08:32 AM
That's just one of numerous reasons why Morrowind and Oblivion are far better than Skyrim.

Name three other things that make Oblivion superior to Skyrim.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on May 12, 2014, 05:12:55 AM
Immersion for one. Maybe I'm biased. I think the setting is significantly superior to Skyrim's. Cyrodil is a lush wilderness full of color and verve, Skyrim is a mess of greys and whites. I'm more partial to the way talking with NPCs was handled in Oblivion. Also, like others have stated... The UI is absurd for an Elder Scrolls  game. It felt like I was playing some weird sci-fi Fallout or Star Trek game where you visit primitive planets. The quests were amazing, with the exception of the main quest. The characters were more believable and had much more personality than the ones in Slyrim, that's mostly the writers fault however. And I just like the entire engine better. The only thing Skyrim improved on was combat, but combat isn't really that important in an Elder Scrolls game.

Oblivion is x10 better than Skyrim.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Blanko on May 12, 2014, 05:16:50 AM
Quest design alone makes Oblivion significantly better than Skyrim.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on May 12, 2014, 05:28:02 AM
I assume you're only referring to the Dark Brotherhood questline, because everything else in the vanilla game was pretty standard or tedious. Also, let's not forget that the level-scaling system is unbelievably broken.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on May 12, 2014, 05:40:21 AM
The only thing Skyrim improved on was combat, but combat isn't really that important in an Elder Scrolls game.
Potato faces.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Snupes on May 12, 2014, 06:18:45 AM
Quest design alone makes Oblivion significantly better than Skyrim.

How so, exactly? It's been a long while since I've played Oblivion, but I don't remember the quests being a whole lot different.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on May 12, 2014, 01:51:48 PM
But potato faces
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on May 12, 2014, 04:34:55 PM
Oblivion's quests usually involved more than dungeon-crawling.

Yes, they had potato faces.  Nevertheless, Oblivion's quest design was better than Skyrim's.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on May 12, 2014, 04:37:20 PM
This guy (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Glarthir) is just one example of how Oblivion has better quests than Skyrim.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on May 12, 2014, 04:53:42 PM
The voices.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on May 15, 2014, 06:52:21 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IqHEjJlyf8

Look how well the game is going.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on May 15, 2014, 07:18:06 PM
I can't even tell what's going on.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Pete Svarrior on May 15, 2014, 07:38:52 PM
I can't even tell what's going on.
Looks like a crowd of statistically median MMO players.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on May 15, 2014, 11:27:27 PM
Yes, they had potato faces.  Nevertheless, Oblivion's quest design was better than Skyrim's.

Except the quest to cure vampirism, you mean.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on May 16, 2014, 05:36:38 AM
Yes, they had potato faces.  Nevertheless, Oblivion's quest design was better than Skyrim's.

Except the quest to cure vampirism, you mean.

Let's not talk about that.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost Spaghetti on May 16, 2014, 12:29:47 PM
Yes, they had potato faces.  Nevertheless, Oblivion's quest design was better than Skyrim's.

Except the quest to cure vampirism, you mean.

Let's not talk about that.

I love the fact that it was so broken that it could only be completed if you changed the language to German.

I Should have named my vampire character 'Blutgras' in honour of that bug...
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Lord Dave on May 17, 2014, 12:28:35 AM
I can't even tell what's going on.

Based on what I'm seeing it looks like a bunch of random named players (maybe some kind of NPC companions) are so focused on attacking one enemy but the clipping of NPCs is so bad that none of them can actually attack properly.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on May 17, 2014, 12:30:04 AM
I can't even tell what's going on.

Based on what I'm seeing it looks like a bunch of random named players (maybe some kind of NPC companions) are so focused on attacking one enemy but the clipping of NPCs is so bad that none of them can actually attack properly.

They're bots.

As in roBots. They're made out of technologies. You probably wouldn't understand.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Lord Dave on May 17, 2014, 03:47:19 AM
I can't even tell what's going on.

Based on what I'm seeing it looks like a bunch of random named players (maybe some kind of NPC companions) are so focused on attacking one enemy but the clipping of NPCs is so bad that none of them can actually attack properly.

They're bots.

As in roBots. They're made out of technologies. You probably wouldn't understand.
I didn't think that player created bots existed for the game yet.  Seems like it only came out last month.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on May 17, 2014, 03:58:46 AM
I didn't think that player created bots existed for the game yet.  Seems like it only came out last month.

Bots are a "day one" sort of thing.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Lord Dave on May 17, 2014, 02:51:02 PM
I didn't think that player created bots existed for the game yet.  Seems like it only came out last month.

Bots are a "day one" sort of thing.
Some people need to learn the definition of fun.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on May 17, 2014, 02:53:56 PM
Some people need to learn the definition of fun.

Well, I'd say not playing an MMO is a good step forward in discovering fun.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on May 18, 2014, 03:12:35 AM
Bumping an old comment because lore lore lore:

I think you've forgotten about Oblivion

And I don't know what was going on with them in Arena and Daggerfall:
(http://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/www.ign.com/9109/2011/08/Khajiit_Arena.jpg)
(http://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/www.ign.com/9109/2011/08/Khajiit_Daggerfall.jpg)

Basically, Khajiit are always ugly.

The Khajiit in Arena are of the Ohmes (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Ohmes) breed, and in Daggerfall they're Ohmes-raht (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Ohmes-raht).  The lore checks out!
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on May 18, 2014, 03:27:18 AM
The Khajiit in Arena are of the Ohmes (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Ohmes) breed, and in Daggerfall they're Ohmes-raht (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Ohmes-raht).  The lore checks out!

All other TES games, however, like to sweep that lore under the rug. Mostly because it is disturbing to think about a mountain lion birthing what is clearly a human child and having such a thing based on the phase of the moon.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on May 18, 2014, 08:46:59 AM
The Khajiit in Arena are of the Ohmes (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Ohmes) breed, and in Daggerfall they're Ohmes-raht (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Ohmes-raht).  The lore checks out!

All other TES games, however, like to sweep that lore under the rug. Mostly because it is disturbing to think about a mountain lion birthing what is clearly a human child and having such a thing based on the phase of the moon.
Ohmes don't resemble humans. They resemble Bosmers. Although their description in Arena is rather strange, claiming the feline-like breeds are but a legend.
Quote
Khajiit hail from the province of Elsweyr. They are a fair skinned people who are extremely hardy, intelligent, and agile. Legend has it that they descended from an intelligent feline race, for they still retain a strange cast to their features. Many Khajiit have taken to painting their faces to more resemble their distant cousins
Lore lore lore.
Ohmes-raht only resemble humans from a distance due to their size and stature, but they have tails and short fur all over their bodies.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on May 21, 2014, 01:40:30 PM
Important:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/9083-The-Elder-Scrolls-Online-We-Can-MMO-Too
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on May 21, 2014, 09:04:30 PM
Old. I think his review was pretty stock standard of most MMO's he's reviewed. Maybe a bit harsher than WoW or GW2.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on May 22, 2014, 03:28:41 AM
The Khajiit in Arena are of the Ohmes (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Ohmes) breed, and in Daggerfall they're Ohmes-raht (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Ohmes-raht).  The lore checks out!

All other TES games, however, like to sweep that lore under the rug. Mostly because it is disturbing to think about a mountain lion birthing what is clearly a human child and having such a thing based on the phase of the moon.
Ohmes don't resemble humans. They resemble Bosmers. Although their description in Arena is rather strange, claiming the feline-like breeds are but a legend.
Quote
Khajiit hail from the province of Elsweyr. They are a fair skinned people who are extremely hardy, intelligent, and agile. Legend has it that they descended from an intelligent feline race, for they still retain a strange cast to their features. Many Khajiit have taken to painting their faces to more resemble their distant cousins
Lore lore lore.
Ohmes-raht only resemble humans from a distance due to their size and stature, but they have tails and short fur all over their bodies.

Someone is a furry.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on June 05, 2014, 06:09:54 PM
The Elder Scrolls Pornline
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on June 20, 2014, 04:34:22 PM
Lore is an important study.  Don't diminish that with your argument ad furries.

http://www.siliconera.com/2014/06/04/elder-scrolls-online-50-didnt-take-long/

The financial capitulation begins.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/06/20/tamriel-infinium-in-which-youre-told-that-elder-scrolls-online/

Okay, guys, it turns out the game is actually good, stop saying it's bad.  You hipsters.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on June 20, 2014, 04:44:58 PM
What a terrible article. He's just saying repeatedly that he likes the game, without ever explaining why. Also, MMO failtrolls.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on June 25, 2014, 12:31:58 AM
Apparently there are sentient crows in TESO:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxNF8J1uWs8)

Very amusing, but I can't help but notice how the Duke tells you that you're totally the first to fulfill the "toll" and be allowed to enter their mysterious land of crows.  Way to ignore your MMO setting yet again, ZeniMax.  This is the worst clashing of gameplay and story that I've ever seen in a video game.  They're deliberately calling attention to the existence of other players and directly telling you that it doesn't make any sense!
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on June 25, 2014, 01:58:04 AM
It's as if the game was developed entirely by MMO failtrolls.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: DuckDodgers on June 25, 2014, 02:08:38 AM
I found that dungeon during one of the beta tests.  It isn't exactly a secret place, it's even marked on the map.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on June 26, 2014, 03:34:56 AM
At least WoW bothers to admit in quest storylines that "oh, you're like the 500th guy I've hired to kill these fucking wolves, why are there so many goddamn many of them?"
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on June 26, 2014, 03:59:40 AM
At least WoW bothers to admit in quest storylines that "oh, you're like the 500th guy I've hired to kill these fucking wolves, why are there so many goddamn many of them?"

It doesn't though. There's like 1 quest in the game that makes meta jokes about questing, and there's hundreds of quests along the lines of "Wow you totally saved everyone you're the hero of the world".

Although WoW doesn't give a shit about lore beyond raids, and even then it's flimsy.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on June 26, 2014, 04:01:41 AM
It doesn't though. There's like 1 quest in the game that makes meta jokes about questing, and there's hundreds of quests along the lines of "Wow you totally saved everyone you're the hero of the world".

Although WoW doesn't give a shit about lore beyond raids, and even then it's flimsy.

What? As far as I remember nearly every quest I did constantly referenced multiple heroes. Even the raid quest lore talks about how it took multiple people to do a specific task (i.e. kill Arthas etc.).
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on June 26, 2014, 04:04:31 AM
It doesn't though. There's like 1 quest in the game that makes meta jokes about questing, and there's hundreds of quests along the lines of "Wow you totally saved everyone you're the hero of the world".

Although WoW doesn't give a shit about lore beyond raids, and even then it's flimsy.

What? As far as I remember nearly every quest I did constantly referenced multiple heroes. Even the raid quest lore talks about how it took multiple people to do a specific task (i.e. kill Arthas etc.).

Na. Solo quests largely pretend you're in your own world, unless they're a group quest where all of a sudden other heroes exist to the NPC's. Raid lore goes how you said though, Arthas/Deathwing/whatever were defeated by a 'bunch of heroes' with the help of Tirion/Thrall/whatever.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on June 26, 2014, 04:20:06 AM
Rushy, it also depends on when you played WOW. Almost all the quests in the game were rebooted after Cataclysm. Now every quest makes you feel like you're the saving the world singlehandedly.

There are even pseudo-cutscenes now, and I believe there are a few completely instanced quests now as well.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Pete Svarrior on June 26, 2014, 05:00:29 AM
I believe there are a few completely instanced quests now as well.
Sadly true. I miss the time when this wasn't the case so often - fucking the opposing faction up by killing their long and annoying escort quest never gets old.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on June 26, 2014, 07:11:08 AM
I believe there are a few completely instanced quests now as well.
Sadly true. I miss the time when this wasn't the case so often - fucking the opposing faction up by killing their long and annoying escort quest never gets old.

People that kill quest givers have a special place in hell.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on June 26, 2014, 10:58:57 AM
you can kill quest givers?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on June 26, 2014, 07:18:58 PM
In most places. Some quest givers have invulnerability or are too hard to kill, in newer leveling zones. But older ones don't have that.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on June 26, 2014, 09:01:41 PM
It's one thing to simply not acknowledge the presence of other players; it's another to tell you that they aren't there.  Does WoW - or any other MMO, really - do that?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vongeo on June 27, 2014, 06:23:53 AM
I canceled playing it cuz no time and then they sent me a survey on what they could do better.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on June 27, 2014, 07:19:02 AM
It's one thing to simply not acknowledge the presence of other players; it's another to tell you that they aren't there.  Does WoW - or any other MMO, really - do that?

Yeah, constantly. "Please collect me 10 bear asses because no one else can do it like you can, hero!" while 3 other people are handing over their 10 bear asses.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on June 27, 2014, 07:37:11 AM
bear asses
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Lord Dave on June 27, 2014, 09:46:55 AM
It's one thing to simply not acknowledge the presence of other players; it's another to tell you that they aren't there.  Does WoW - or any other MMO, really - do that?
Secret World constantly mentions other players and how they're always running around to help.

There's even one quest that basically says "The zombies get back up after you shoot them so would you mind just killing them again?  Thanks."
The only time you feel like a lone hero is during the story missions but a lot of that is in solo instances and cut scenes. 

Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on June 29, 2014, 09:20:49 PM
Immersion for one. Maybe I'm biased. I think the setting is significantly superior to Skyrim's. Cyrodil is a lush wilderness full of color and verve, Skyrim is a mess of greys and whites. I'm more partial to the way talking with NPCs was handled in Oblivion. Also, like others have stated... The UI is absurd for an Elder Scrolls  game. It felt like I was playing some weird sci-fi Fallout or Star Trek game where you visit primitive planets. The quests were amazing, with the exception of the main quest. The characters were more believable and had much more personality than the ones in Slyrim, that's mostly the writers fault however. And I just like the entire engine better. The only thing Skyrim improved on was combat, but combat isn't really that important in an Elder Scrolls game.

Oblivion is x10 better than Skyrim.

Hey, Vauxy, remember when Diego was complaining about how Oblivion sucked because of minor lore deviations from prior games?  And then it turned out that a lot of what he was saying wasn't actually true.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on June 29, 2014, 09:27:32 PM
Immersion for one. Maybe I'm biased. I think the setting is significantly superior to Skyrim's. Cyrodil is a lush wilderness full of color and verve, Skyrim is a mess of greys and whites. I'm more partial to the way talking with NPCs was handled in Oblivion. Also, like others have stated... The UI is absurd for an Elder Scrolls  game. It felt like I was playing some weird sci-fi Fallout or Star Trek game where you visit primitive planets. The quests were amazing, with the exception of the main quest. The characters were more believable and had much more personality than the ones in Slyrim, that's mostly the writers fault however. And I just like the entire engine better. The only thing Skyrim improved on was combat, but combat isn't really that important in an Elder Scrolls game.

Oblivion is x10 better than Skyrim.

Is this a joke?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Blanko on June 29, 2014, 09:49:33 PM
Yeah Vauxy, don't be ridiculous. Oblivion isn't that much better, it's a 6/10 game to Skyrim's 4/10.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on June 29, 2014, 10:29:30 PM
This is not a joke. Skyrim is meh compared to Oblivion. Of course, I'm wearing rose-tinted goggles since Oblivion was my first Elder Scrolls game. Sorry I'm not morrowind elite.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on June 29, 2014, 10:35:45 PM
lol wow epic troller balkno such troll very troll (le doge meme xD) but seriously I would like to see some of these points defended. Firstly, the claim that Skyrim is a "mess of greys and whites".

(http://majamaki.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/skyrim-map-exported-with-tes4qlod-by-oceanlightwave-lg.jpg)

Less than half of the world's playable area is actually covered in snow. 

Here's Cyrodiil. Very little variation.

(https://sites.google.com/site/whathuh052/OblivionNirnrootMap.jpg)

Secondly, how is conversing with NPCs better in Oblivion? The only difference is that, in Oblivion, the camera is locked several short inches from the NPCs face as the world noticeably freezes behind them. I don't see how this is an improvement over Skyrim's system, which retains the player's original perspective during conversation, doesn't freeze time, and allows you to look around.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on June 29, 2014, 10:51:36 PM
Secondly, how is conversing with NPCs better in Oblivion? The only difference is that, in Oblivion, the camera is locked several short inches from the NPCs potato face as the world noticeably freezes behind them. I don't see how this is an improvement over Skyrim's system, which retains the player's original perspective during conversation, doesn't freeze time, and allows you to look around.
Fix'd.

Also, while the voice acting isn't prefect in Skyrim, it's several times better than in Oblivion. The lack of variations in voice actors aside, the lines spoken in Oblivion sounds cartoonish and unprofessional. Like they're just reading them from a paper, which they are, but they sound like they're not putting any effort into making the lines sound believable. People don't speak the way they do, while the dialogues in Skyrim sounds a lot more realistic and believable, although as I said, not perfect yet.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Blanko on June 29, 2014, 11:06:01 PM
lol wow epic troller balkno such troll very troll (le doge meme xD)

>mffw
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on June 30, 2014, 12:20:33 AM
lol wow epic troller balkno such troll very troll (le doge meme xD)

>mffw

What the vehk did you just say to me, you little N'wah? I'll have you know that I graduated top of my class from the battlespire, and I've been involved in numerous secret raids on Daedric Shrines, and I have over 300 confirmed trapped souls. I am trained in magickal warfare and I am the top battlemage in the entire Imperial Legion. You are nothing to me but just another soul. I will wipe you the vehk out with precision the likes of which have bever been seen before on Mundus, mark my vehking works. You think you can get away with saying that CHIM to me over the internet? Think again, N'wah. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of blades across Tamriel, and your magicka signature is being traced right now, so you better prepare for the storm, n'wah. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You're vehking dead kid. I can be anywhere, any time, and I can kill you over seven hundred different ways, and that's just with my hand to hand skill. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the Imperial Legion, and I will use it to it's fullest extent to wipe your miserable vehk off the face of the earth, you little n'wah. If only you knew what unholy retribution your little "clever" remark was about to bring down, you would have held your vehking tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you acursed n'wah. I will cast fury on you and you will drown in it. You're vehking dead, kiddo.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on June 30, 2014, 02:14:14 AM
Alright, Alex. Calm down. We know you're a Skyrim fanboy, but could you tone it down a notch?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on June 30, 2014, 02:17:26 AM
I'm not. I hate Skyrim, as well as every other ES game that came out after Morrowind. Oblivion is just objectively worse.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on June 30, 2014, 02:35:08 AM
They're all terrible games. Bioware makes better RPGs.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on June 30, 2014, 02:37:19 AM
They're all terrible games. Bioware makes better RPGs.

*tips trillby* expertly trolled m'sir
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Blanko on June 30, 2014, 02:49:06 AM
I'm not. I hate Skyrim, as well as every other ES game that came out after Morrowind. Oblivion is just objectively worse.

Nice Rushing, bro
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on June 30, 2014, 02:52:15 AM
At least in Mass Effect I can have sex with people. Even if you could have sex in Oblivion, you'd need an in game paper bag just to fap to it.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on June 30, 2014, 03:21:25 AM
I'm not. I hate Skyrim, as well as every other ES game that came out after Morrowind. Oblivion is just objectively worse.

(http://i.imgur.com/7BqEauIh.jpg)
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on June 30, 2014, 05:39:18 AM
Excellent use of the black science guy meme "there's a bad guy over here" but you're ignoring the hard facts. How is the conversation system in Oblivion better than Skyrim's?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on June 30, 2014, 06:01:53 AM
I have taken advantage of some deal that let me get TESO at a lower price.  If it's not worth $15 a month, I won't bother subscribing, but a month should be enough time to get the feel of the game and see if the lore is consistent.

lore lore lore
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on June 30, 2014, 06:10:59 AM
I have taken advantage of some deal that let me get TESO at a lower price.  If it's not worth $15 a month, I won't bother subscribing, but a month should be enough time to get the feel of the game and see if the lore is consistent.

lore lore lore

That's how they get you.


I believe the comedic possibilities with the zoom on faces make it better than Skyrim's conversation system by default. Not everything needs to be realistic. Time should freeze when people are talking. That's just games.

The maps posted show exactly what I was talking about. Skyrim is mostly grey/white/brown. At least Cyrodil looks pretty even if it looks the same all over (which isn't true to begin with). Skyrim's world is drab as hell.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on June 30, 2014, 06:29:39 AM
On that map, the snowy mountain ranges to the east, west, and south make up the province border and aren't part of the playable area. If your only argument for Oblivion's conversation system is that it's funny and that it's just a game, then I can do nothing more but submit the matter to the arbitration of our wise audience.

You can't accuse something of being "just" three colors when the thing you're defending is almost entirely monochromatic. More than three quarters of Cyrodiil is just green fields and green trees.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on June 30, 2014, 11:02:01 AM
BUT GREEN IS PRETTIER THAN GREY AND WHITE! BAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Blanko on June 30, 2014, 12:54:11 PM
>objectively worse
>hard facts

Not this shit again
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on June 30, 2014, 02:13:52 PM
I watched some speedruns of morrowind and I can say it simply isn't a very good game.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Blanko on June 30, 2014, 02:55:29 PM
I watched some speedruns of morrowind and I can say it simply isn't a very good game.

Game is literally five minutes long, gg worse than Gone Home
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Pete Svarrior on June 30, 2014, 04:04:24 PM
Dark Souls II is poorly designed.

Oh, wait, that's not the right thread... or is it?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on June 30, 2014, 04:59:38 PM
All right, I'm in Tamriel now.  What do?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on June 30, 2014, 05:14:36 PM
I'm not. I hate Skyrim, as well as every other ES game that came out after Morrowind. Oblivion is just objectively worse.

Morrowind? Really? You do realize that that is the game where you can hit someone dead-on and still miss due to dice-rolls right? >_>

Back to addressing this post.

The problem here is that you're looking at this objectively; I'm looking at it subjectively. I have more fun playing Oblivion than I do playing Skyrim. That's a personal fact, for me. My personal tastes lead me to post on forums about how Oblivion is better than Skyrim. Although Skyrim does add some "improvements" on the original formula, it also takes some away. For example, the level up system in Skyrim is subjectively worse than Oblivion's level up system. I felt like I was actually creating a specified character with his own skills/weaknesses in Oblivion. Leveling up requires thought and dedication in Oblvion; Skyrim's system is just la-di-da/hoop-da-loop put points into a tree and pick which stat you want to level out of THREE stats. Oblivion's level up system, while more complicated, is more engaging and promotes experimentation and planning. The reason for this is because I think Skyrim was made with a more "noob-friendly" attitude, so that new ES players don't fuck up their character builds within the first few levels. I guess I should be thanking Bethesda, but I'm not a child and I know how to manage stats. Stat management is a large part of RPGS and adds more depth. Unforunately, Skyrim is lacking in the depth department because of these changes.


Comparisons:
Conversation system: I think it's funnier to watch in Oblivion. Especially when you're just cruising into a town and you're forced to turn around and zoom in on some guarding yelling "HALT" at you. Never gets old. Of course, this is completely subjective. I can understand how some people could see Skyrim's handling of dialog as more graceful or realistic (because it is).

Quests: the quests were far better in Oblivion, especially the guild quests. The guild quest progession made sense in Oblivion: you're not trusted by the guilds until you complete several quests, in Skyrim there's some loophole that makes you the most important member of each guild immediately. The civil war quest in Skyrim is a big dull timesink (ransack 20+ keeps) with no useful reward. In Oblivion, I actually cared about the characters in the guilds, especially with the Dark Brotherhood. When I was told I had to kill all the Dark Brotherhood NPCS in Oblivion I was actually a tad bit upset. Skyrim never got any sort of emotional reaction out of me except anger at all the retarded PS3 glitches (which deserves its own section).

Glitches: Skyrim's has an abundance of gamebreaking glitches. The game glitches out all the time. I haven't played it in a while so I don't know if it's been patched for the console versions, so forgive me if it has. I actually could not complete Skyrim because one of the main questlines broke during my playthrough. The quest were you have to give all your equipment to this elf guy and go to a Thalmor party yielded an infinite loadscreen (I tried several things to fix this, but eventually had to create a completely new character). I know that Oblivion has it's share of glitches and bugs too, but I never had a game-breaking glitch.

Towns: I haven't seen anyone claim that Skyrim has better towns than Oblivion. Morthal, Winterhold, and Dawnstar are the biggest offenders here. They are absolutely boring and it seems like the devs put no effort into making them (fuck, you could make a better town with the TES quest maker that is bundled with Skyrim/Oblvion, easily). I understand why they're so shitty story-wise, but it still seems lazy to me. Maybe these towns were dumbed down because of the rushed launch of Skyrim? Who knows. Oblivion's towns are all unique and relatively large. Each town feels like it has its own culture and each town has its own unique architecture.  Even Kvatch is better than Morthal, Winterhold, and Dawnstar and that is saying something.


I'll get to more later.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Blanko on June 30, 2014, 05:42:02 PM
Morrowind? Really? You do realize that that is the game where you can hit someone dead-on and still miss due to dice-rolls right? >_>

Hey nice opinions, dude.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on June 30, 2014, 07:01:27 PM
Morrowind? Really? You do realize that that is the game where you can hit someone dead-on and still miss due to dice-rolls right? >_>

Hey nice opinions, dude.

Would be amusing if it was an opinion to begin with.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on June 30, 2014, 07:10:46 PM
That's enough.  This thread is about TESO.  I am a Nord dragonknight.  Discuss.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Lord Dave on June 30, 2014, 07:26:45 PM
That's enough.  This thread is about TESO.  I am a Nord dragonknight.  Discuss.
Fuck a dark elf.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Blanko on June 30, 2014, 07:54:20 PM
Morrowind? Really? You do realize that that is the game where you can hit someone dead-on and still miss due to dice-rolls right? >_>

Hey nice opinions, dude.

Would be amusing if it was an opinion to begin with.

Sure, stat checks are worse than spamming LMB to win in an RPG because hard cold facts yeah :^)
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on June 30, 2014, 09:06:34 PM
Morrowind? Really? You do realize that that is the game where you can hit someone dead-on and still miss due to dice-rolls right? >_>

Hey nice opinions, dude.

Would be amusing if it was an opinion to begin with.

Sure, stat checks are worse than spamming LMB to win in an RPG because hard cold facts yeah :^)

Quote what you have a problem with next time. Dice rolls are fact in Morrowind.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Blanko on June 30, 2014, 09:21:35 PM
Morrowind? Really? You do realize that that is the game where you can hit someone dead-on and still miss due to dice-rolls right? >_>

Hey nice opinions, dude.

Would be amusing if it was an opinion to begin with.

Sure, stat checks are worse than spamming LMB to win in an RPG because hard cold facts yeah :^)

Quote what you have a problem with next time. Dice rolls are fact in Morrowind.

You're making the implication that dice rolls are a bad thing.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on June 30, 2014, 09:23:34 PM
Dice-rolls in a game with combat that appears action-based is counter intuitive.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on June 30, 2014, 09:25:04 PM
I'm not. I hate Skyrim, as well as every other ES game that came out after Morrowind. Oblivion is just objectively worse.

Towns: I haven't seen anyone claim that Skyrim has better towns than Oblivion. Morthal, Winterhold, and Dawnstar are the biggest offenders here. They are absolutely boring and it seems like the devs put no effort into making them (fuck, you could make a better town with the TES quest maker that is bundled with Skyrim/Oblvion, easily). I understand why they're so shitty story-wise, but it still seems lazy to me. Maybe these towns were dumbed down because of the rushed launch of Skyrim? Who knows. Oblivion's towns are all unique and relatively large. Each town feels like it has its own culture and each town has its own unique architecture.  Even Kvatch is better than Morthal, Winterhold, and Dawnstar and that is saying something.


I'll get to more later.

This is the only part I really have a problem with. Of course it's perfectly acceptable to prefer Oblivion. I reluctantly let the game into a special place in my heart a long time ago (I was lying earlier).

Now, on to the hard cold facts. Skyrim has three tiers of settlements: major cities, minor cities, and towns. Oblivion has two: cities and towns. Morthal, Winterhold, and Dawnstar are all minor cities. If you're going to compare settlements, it only makes sense to compare Skyrim's major cities (Solitude, Windhelm, Markarth... you know, the "real" cities) to Oblivion's cities. In that case, I don't know anybody who prefers Oblivion's city design. The cities in Oblivion are basically all just blobs of buildings on a flat plain. In Skyrim, cities are integrated with the environment in more interesting ways. Markarth is carved into a mountainside. Solitude is built on an enormous rock arch by the sea. Riften is a blob of buildings on a flat plain. O wait. Basically, improved technology allowed BGS to realize something closer to what was portrayed in their concept drawings. The concepts for Oblivion cities were great too (Here's (http://i.neoseeker.com/ca/elder_scrolls_iv_oblivion_conceptart_iHlmt.jpg) what Leyawiin could have looked like), but time constraints and unfamiliarity with the hardware they were developing for would prove to be 2serious.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Blanko on June 30, 2014, 09:29:43 PM
I don't see how it's action-based at all. In fact, for Morrowind they did a good job of realizing that a system entirely based on pressing the attack button until the opponent falls over does not make for very good action, which is why your success in combat is entirely reliant on character building. For Oblivion and Skyrim they didn't realize that, and also didn't make the necessary improvements to the system to make it seem actually "action-based".

Oblivion still has a fair amount of focus on character building, which is part of the reason why it's better than Skyrim, but in Skyrim it does not matter at all. It's all been replaced by shitty takedown animations.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on June 30, 2014, 09:34:50 PM
Oblivion still has a fair amount of focus on character building, which is part of the reason why it's better than Skyrim, but in Skyrim it does not matter at all. It's all been replaced by shitty takedown animations.

Oh no, you too? What exactly has been replaced by "shitty "takedown" animations"? Those animations only trigger when you've already killed something. They're purely cosmetic and don't affect the course of combat at all. I'm starting to understand that neither of you have spent very much time in either game.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Blanko on June 30, 2014, 09:37:37 PM
I mean it's their way of making the game appear more combat-oriented, when no actual changes were made to the combat system. Since the RPG structures underneath the combat are worse in Skyrim, the whole thing is worse as a whole.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on June 30, 2014, 09:37:56 PM
I have done everything in Skyrim for the most part. I have probably 300+ hours of play time in total. I have played the game. Stop trolling.

I will address other points later.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on June 30, 2014, 09:45:19 PM
I mean it's their way of making the game appear more combat-oriented, when no actual changes were made to the combat system. Since the RPG structures underneath the combat are worse in Skyrim, the whole thing is worse as a whole.

In Oblivion, your skill with a weapon, your strength, and your level of fatigue determine how much damage you can deal with that weapon. It works just the same in Skyrim, except the strength attribute is replaced with a set of perks that can be customized. How is this combat system less complex?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Blanko on June 30, 2014, 10:15:09 PM
Enchanting allows for less, there's no spellmaking, a lot of stats that in Oblivion and Morrowind would affect how you could approach a given situation are completely removed. Yes, the system for determining damage for a given melee weapon isn't much different (though in previous games you could do stuff like make custom buffs for increasing your efficiency in that category), but Skyrim gives you less options aside from that weapon. Yeah, you get perks and stuff, but overall the way you play the game doesn't really change at all over the course of the game. In Morrowind and Oblivion, you can build your character to be able to leap across mountains or become completely invisible, or other such things that fundamentally change the gameplay experience. In Skyrim you'll be doing the exact same thing you did in the beginning of the game, except you can imagine that super cool 2x modifier you got from a perk.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on June 30, 2014, 10:30:28 PM
And sprint instead of speed.. yeah.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on June 30, 2014, 10:33:04 PM
I consider the combat system and the magic system to be separate, so I was only thinking of conventional ranged and melee weapons. You can still become invisible in Skyrim, although the much more broken chameleon effect is no more. I can see why BGS would want to curtail the more cartoonish aspects of very high level characters, considering the more realistic atmosphere they were trying to create.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Blanko on June 30, 2014, 10:37:09 PM
And as a result, it's a less fun game. But this is just my opinion, of course (^:
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on June 30, 2014, 10:41:00 PM
Less fun than ~*Morrowind*~, obviously. Try leveling a character in vanilla Oblivion past 20 without focusing exclusively on combat skills and tell us how fun it is.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Blanko on June 30, 2014, 10:43:41 PM
Hey, it's just more incentive to abuse all the broken shit. But obviously Morrowind is a much better game than Oblivion, so I'm not gonna argue about it.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on June 30, 2014, 10:45:40 PM
Alex, are you trying to say that Dawnstar (an important town in the Es mythos) is comparable to a town like Hackdirt in Oblivion? That's not flattering.

As for the claim that Morrowind isn't action based. I said "appears" action based. I know the battle system and its more similar to a pen and paper system. However, my personal opinion is that if you hit an enemy with your sword visually it should connect. Oblivion's battle system was not a downgrade, it was an upgrade. In Oblivion, all hits connect if you land them properly. If a monster is stronger than you are its more dangerous to go head to head with them, and spells/archery are utilized instead of a head on approach because it could get you killed. In Morrowind your character could be physically stronger than the opponent and still get shafted because of dice-roll misses. Because of this, Oblivion's combat system is arguably more fun, less punishing, and far more realistic.

Oblivion is not perfect. Morrowind has some advantages gsmeplay wise and depth wise, yes. For example, methods of travel and a lack of fast travel made Morrowind more immersive. Skyrim is the worst out of the three, IMO. Skyrim tried to improve on Oblivion's formula but failed in almost every regard except graphically and visually. I can get takedown cams and dismemberment in Oblivion. That is what mods are for.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Snupes on June 30, 2014, 10:47:46 PM
I almost just deleted this entire thread on accident, oops

Also, I wish I'd picked up Morrowind while it was on sale. :[ I really want to play it and be disappointed with how hyped up it's been
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on June 30, 2014, 10:51:46 PM
I almost just deleted this entire thread on accident, oops

Also, I wish I'd picked up Morrowind while it was on sale. :[ I really want to play it and be disappointed with how hyped up it's been

The bay is there for a reason.

Less fun than ~*Morrowind*~, obviously. Try leveling a character in vanilla Oblivion past 20 without focusing exclusively on combat skills and tell us how fun it is.

There are numerous ways to play Oblivion as a pacifist or solely as a spellcaster.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Blanko on June 30, 2014, 10:56:47 PM
As for the claim that Morrowind isn't action based. I said "appears" action based. I know the battle system and its more similar to a pen and paper system. However, my personal opinion is that if you hit an enemy with your sword visually it should connect. Oblivion's battle system was not a downgrade, it was an upgrade. In Oblivion, all hits connect if you land them properly. If a monster is stronger than you are its more dangerous to go head to head with them, and spells/archery are utilized instead of a head on approach because it could get you killed. In Morrowind your character could be physically stronger than the opponent and still get shafted because of dice-roll misses. Because of this, Oblivion's combat system is arguably more fun, less punishing, and far more realistic.

Meanwhile, hits that do connect cause seemingly no effect on enemies, allowing them to retaliate immediately, and sometimes your hits connect when they visually should not because instead of using weapon hitboxes for hit detection, they use simple range checks. It's curious how out of all the abstractions in Morrowind's combat they only chose to remove one of them for future installments, considering what they were aiming to do.

I almost just deleted this entire thread on accident, oops

Browsing FES on a phone is fucking dangerous, man.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on June 30, 2014, 11:02:06 PM
I'd still sacrifice all of that as long as my hits are supposed to connect when it looks like they should and magic doesn't just flat out fail. Combat is superior in Oblivion, but that doesn't mean I think that Morrowind is a shitty game. Morrowind did a lot right.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on June 30, 2014, 11:05:42 PM
Alex, are you trying to say that Dawnstar (an important town in the Es mythos) is comparable to a town like Hackdirt in Oblivion? That's not flattering.

In-game, yes. Dawnstar is a mid tier settlement, and Hackdirt is the largest low tier settlement, so it makes sense that they're somewhat similar in size.

There are numerous ways to play Oblivion as a pacifist or solely as a spellcaster.

Because of the way the scaling system works, enemies become stronger much quicker than many character builds do. Unless you're aware of how the system works and how to game it, the game becomes almost unplayable at very high levels. This is why most people recommend completing things like the MQ and the Arena questline at level 1.

Also, in Morrowind, once your skill with a particular weapon is around 55 you'll almost never miss as long as you aren't trying to fight while completely fatigued.

Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: DuckDodgers on June 30, 2014, 11:07:20 PM
Morrowind's immersion makes it the best.  There are a ton of spells in there that don't have any benefit to existing beyond making the world believable, such as locking spells.  You can also mix and match any of the armors, your gauntlets, pauldrons, and boots are separate left-right pieces, much like they would be if you were really in the game.  Unfortunately, I picked up the treasure box with ES1-5 and couldn't really play Morrowind much because I couldn't get past the paper-plate mask style faces of the NPCs.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on June 30, 2014, 11:45:09 PM
Those over Oblivion potato faces any day though.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on July 01, 2014, 12:26:48 AM
This has actually inspired me to play Oblivion again. It's been quite some time. ESO still sucks.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on July 01, 2014, 12:29:30 AM
I used to be able to kill Umbra at level one. Just tried to play it, Umbra murdered me in one power swing. Either I suck at this game now or she is stronger in the deluxe edition.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on July 01, 2014, 12:33:00 AM
This has actually inspired me to play Oblivion again. It's been quite some time. ESO still sucks.

Enjoy. I love replaying Oblivion. What race are you going for?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on July 01, 2014, 12:45:01 AM
I'm playing it too. I'm a Dunmer.
(http://oi42.tinypic.com/t7le3a.jpg)

With Oblivion Character Overhaul (http://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/43612/) mod for better looking faces.

I see there's a new version. I should update.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on July 01, 2014, 12:54:42 AM
Nice. I like playing as Khajit.

This is what happened last time I played Skyrim. Does this look normal to you?

(http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j429/wintermute0/ScreenShot33.jpg)
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on July 01, 2014, 12:57:57 AM
No. It never did.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on July 01, 2014, 02:02:54 AM
I rolled an Imperial Spellsword. Normally I would play as a Dunmer but I couldn't bear to look at those faces again.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 01, 2014, 05:15:51 AM
I've said before that Morrowind's biggest flaw isn't the combat, but how clunky, convoluted, and generally just difficult to play it is.  And when I say "difficult," I don't mean the positive way that implies challenge and a sense of achievement, but the negative way that implies tedious busy work.  The inventory/equipment scene, with its tiny icons and forcing you to drag rather than click, is a nightmare.  The journal is an incoherent mess, even after you get the expansion that adds the categorization.  And the lack of quest markers is nothing more than a tedious time sink.  Yeah, I know that last one is going to be controversial, so I'll elaborate.  Finding the quest objectives by way of following simple directions is not more challenging, or somehow more indicative of being a smart, mature player than finding the objectives by way of following quest markers.  The only difference is that you're constantly having to stop and check your map/journal.

I don't hate Morrowind.  It does do a lot of things very well, and I'm still hoping that at some point way down the line I can get back to playing it.  But as far as its cult following goes, I suspect that a lot of that stems more from nostalgia and elitism than the actual merits of the game.  No, I'm not accusing anyone here of that; I just mean in general.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Blanko on July 01, 2014, 05:23:16 AM
tl;dr: filthy casual
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on July 01, 2014, 05:44:32 AM
I've said before that Morrowind's biggest flaw isn't the combat, but how clunky, convoluted, and generally just difficult to play it is.

Oh boy.

Quote
And when I say "difficult," I don't mean the positive way that implies challenge and a sense of achievement, but the negative way that implies tedious busy work.

tl;dr

Quote
The inventory/equipment scene, with its tiny icons and forcing you to drag rather than click, is a nightmare.

This is a new one. I've never heard a complaint about this specific feature of the UI. The size of the icons depends on your resolution. "Drag rather than click" is a bit misleading, since you don't actually have to hold down the mouse button. You do have to click twice to equip or unequip something. This makes it more difficult to accidentally equip items in a cluttered inventory.

Quote
The journal is an incoherent mess, even after you get the expansion that adds the categorization.  And the lack of quest markers is nothing more than a tedious time sink.  Yeah, I know that last one is going to be controversial, so I'll elaborate.  Finding the quest objectives by way of following simple directions is not more challenging, or somehow more indicative of being a smart, mature player than finding the objectives by way of following quest markers.

How is following directions not more challenging than following a quest marker? Your entire complaint seems to be that it's more challenging, except you've used the word tedious instead.

Quote
The only difference is that you're constantly having to stop and check your map/journal.

No, that is not the only difference. The most important difference between the two methods is that one makes sense within the game world, and the other is an undisguised game mechanic. Quest markers require less effort from the players and developers. Written directions require you to pay attention to your surroundings and notice landmarks.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on July 01, 2014, 06:01:51 AM
"Could you go fetch my ring for me? I dropped it in a cave."
*magically know the exact location of said cave and ring*
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 01, 2014, 06:39:46 AM
How is following directions not more challenging than following a quest marker? Your entire complaint seems to be that it's more challenging, except you've used the word tedious instead.

Quest markers require less effort from the players and developers. Written directions require you to pay attention to your surroundings and notice landmarks.

That's just busy work.  If you want to be pedantic, then yes, I suppose it is more "challenging" to open up your journal and read "Turn right at this rock," as opposed to simply knowing from the start to turn right at the rock.  I just don't think that's the kind of challenge that justifies having the player spend several seconds flipping through their journal, and when you take into account that they're going to have to do it multiple times each quest over dozens of quests, you're looking at a lot of potential tedium and frustration.

Quote
The most important difference between the two methods is that one makes sense within the game world, and the other is an undisguised game mechanic.

"Could you go fetch my ring for me? I dropped it in a cave."
*magically know the exact location of said cave and ring*

What if the quest givers had lines like "Here, let me mark that on your map for you"?  Would that make it okay?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on July 01, 2014, 06:49:02 AM
How is following directions not more challenging than following a quest marker? Your entire complaint seems to be that it's more challenging, except you've used the word tedious instead.

Quest markers require less effort from the players and developers. Written directions require you to pay attention to your surroundings and notice landmarks.

That's just busy work.  If you want to be pedantic, then yes, I suppose it is more "challenging" to open up your journal and read "Turn right at this rock," as opposed to simply knowing from the start to turn right at the rock.  I just don't think that's the kind of challenge that justifies having the player spend several seconds flipping through their journal, and when you take into account that they're going to have to do it multiple times each quest over dozens of quests, you're looking at a lot of potential tedium and frustration.

Then we'll just have to disagree to disagree. I think a method of directing the player that is actually integrated with the game world is worth a few seconds of reading. I should clarify that this isn't something that needs to be done multiple times for each quest. Most quests in the game either don't require directions or only require very simple directions like "travel to this inn". Those quests that do require instructions for navigation only have you follow the directions once.

Quote
What if the quest givers had lines like "Here, let me mark that on your map for you"?  Would that make it okay?

Sometimes they do. I'm not sure why that would change my opinion of the quest marker.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 01, 2014, 06:12:49 PM
Wouldn't that explain how you know where to go, rather than having to follow a set of directions?  I agree that when you're inside a dungeon, having a marker is kind of silly, but I don't think it's a big stretch to be able to mark down on your map where you're going in the overworld.

Also, Morrowind in TESO is quite accurate to the lore and its prior depiction.  I mean, Vvardenfell itself isn't available to explore, and if it ever is, it probably won't match up topographically to Morrowind, but I have no complaints about how the mainland looks or how the inhabitants act.  The Dunmer talk about the Tribunal and complain about their new allies all the time.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Lord Dave on July 01, 2014, 06:15:36 PM
Quest markers are an invaluable addition to any RPG.  Yes its more "real" to not have them but since you can't ask for directions or ask for more specific directions or clarification then it turns into a game of geographical hide an seek.

Imagine if you were told to go to a location you'd never been to before and all you had was "its on the northern side of the cliffs.  You'll know it from the rock that looks like a wolf if you look at it just the right way". It would SUCK!
And its not like you can ask him questions like " is it closer to the bridge or the town?".

So OK they put a giant mark on the map.  Great... So now you have to make sure to look at the map all the time to figure out if you're going the right way.  But unlike real maps, game maps may not be visible while walking. 
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on July 01, 2014, 06:22:33 PM
I can see both sides of the quest marker argument. Morrowind's quest system seemingly adds depth and immersion, but it is also far more tedious than Oblivion's (I won't even get into Skyrim's). However, I have played a good bit of Morrowind (never beat it, but spent about 70 hours in it) and the journal system, while annoying, isn't too bad. Like Alex mentioned, you don't really need to refer back to your journal that often because its easy to understand exactly where you need to go. I rarely got completely lost in Morrowind, but I did get side-tracked and off-the-beaten-path several times because of a lack of quest markers. Getting lost isn't necessarily a bad thing in a game like Morrowind, because I would often run into other things to do that I wouldn't have discovered otherwise.

The journal itself in Morrowind is a huge problem though. I hated having to go through pages of fluff just to find out what to do for a quest that I picked up several hours earlier. I am willing to put up with it though, because it does add to the immersion and depth to the game. Realistically, quest markers aren't going to appear on the over world. It makes sense that you'd have to record all your thoughts and tasks in a journal instead of a sci-fi looking menu (talking about Skyrim). Oblivion does it better than Skyrim, since it meshes Morrowind's journal system with newer concepts (like markers). Realism is pretentious and overrated in video games, however. Morrowind is an RPG, the G stands for game. Not everything needs to be realistic. Quest markers and a less messy journal system would have improved Morrowind in the long run: making it more accessible and less intimidating.

All this talk about Morrowind is making me want to play it again. But I'd have to settle for the original xbox game-of-the-year version because I don't have a working computer right now. I like the Xbox version, but the load times are ridiculous (understatement).

Every time I try to play Morrowind I noob it up and end up dying a lot due to whiffs and magic failure. Is there a build that I should focus on that is easier for beginners to pick up and play? I like playing as Red Mage-esque characters (jack of all trades).
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on July 01, 2014, 08:09:44 PM
Wouldn't that explain how you know where to go, rather than having to follow a set of directions?  I agree that when you're inside a dungeon, having a marker is kind of silly, but I don't think it's a big stretch to be able to mark down on your map where you're going in the overworld.

That wouldn't explain why there's a quest marker attached to your objective.

Imagine if you were told to go to a location you'd never been to before and all you had was "its on the northern side of the cliffs.  You'll know it from the rock that looks like a wolf if you look at it just the right way". It would SUCK!
And its not like you can ask him questions like " is it closer to the bridge or the town?".

I don't need to imagine, because there are games (that don't suck) that use this system. When the directions are well written, it works perfectly.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on July 01, 2014, 08:14:09 PM
So OK they put a giant mark on the map.  Great... So now you have to make sure to look at the map all the time to figure out if you're going the right way.  But unlike real maps, game maps may not be visible while walking. 

Arma allows you to use maps while moving in a really realistic fashion. But it's a military sim, so..
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 01, 2014, 08:43:36 PM
16:13   Saddam   On the notion of Ashlanders
16:13   beardo   Have you offended any yet?
16:14   beardo   Have you been challenged yet?
16:15   Saddam   [One of them] just ran up to me and asked me to help his tribe
16:15   beardo   An Ashlander asking a Nord for help.
16:15   Saddam   Yes
16:15   beardo   He must be desperate
16:16   beardo   Also, why are Ashlanders on the mainland?
16:16   Saddam   I have to help the wise woman of his tribe convince the war chieftain to stop attacking a Tribunal temple
16:16   Saddam   That's not a bad story for a quest
16:16   beardo   how's your speechcraft?
16:16   Saddam   But they could have begun it in a more...realistic fashion
16:17   Saddam   Speech is not a skill in this game
16:17   Saddam   I don't think it is, anyway
16:17   beardo   not playing
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vongeo on July 02, 2014, 07:33:27 AM
16:13   Saddam   On the notion of Ashlanders
16:13   beardo   Have you offended any yet?
16:14   beardo   Have you been challenged yet?
16:15   Saddam   [One of them] just ran up to me and asked me to help his tribe
16:15   beardo   An Ashlander asking a Nord for help.
16:15   Saddam   Yes
16:15   beardo   He must be desperate
16:16   beardo   Also, why are Ashlanders on the mainland?
16:16   Saddam   I have to help the wise woman of his tribe convince the war chieftain to stop attacking a Tribunal temple
16:16   Saddam   That's not a bad story for a quest
16:16   beardo   how's your speechcraft?
16:16   Saddam   But they could have begun it in a more...realistic fashion
16:17   Saddam   Speech is not a skill in this game
16:17   Saddam   I don't think it is, anyway
16:17   beardo   not playing
Its a perk, you have to mages guild to get.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 03, 2014, 01:19:15 AM
Yes, there's the "Persuade NPCs" perk, and the Fighters Guild skill line has the "Intimidate NPCs" perk, but they don't make up a skill in and of themselves.

I can't stand the way that the quests/activities/enemies of similar levels are all lumped together in the same zones.  You're supposed to toughen yourself up in the noob zone, and then you can move on to the next zone that has slightly higher-level content, and once you're powerful enough you move on to yet another zone, and so on.  It's ridiculous.  I'm already sick of Morrowind, but I can't go to Skyrim because I'll get slaughtered by the enemies along the way.  And even if I did make it there, I wouldn't be able to do anything because all the content there would be high-level.  Apparently everything and everyone in Skyrim is just way more powerful than everything and everyone in Morrowind.  Bet you didn't realize that while playing their respective games.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on July 03, 2014, 01:47:53 AM
I can't stand the way that the quests/activities/enemies of similar levels are all lumped together in the same zones.  You're supposed to toughen yourself up in the noob zone, and then you can move on to the next zone that has slightly higher-level content, and once you're powerful enough you move on to yet another zone, and so on.  It's ridiculous.  I'm already sick of Morrowind, but I can't go to Skyrim because I'll get slaughtered by the enemies along the way.  And even if I did make it there, I wouldn't be able to do anything because all the content there would be high-level.  Apparently everything and everyone in Skyrim is just way more powerful than everything and everyone in Morrowind.  Bet you didn't realize that while playing their respective games.

It's almost as if gameplay trumps lore or something. If ESO implemented what you're suggesting the game would be a clusterfuck.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Lord Dave on July 03, 2014, 01:48:25 AM
I can't stand the way that the quests/activities/enemies of similar levels are all lumped together in the same zones.  You're supposed to toughen yourself up in the noob zone, and then you can move on to the next zone that has slightly higher-level content, and once you're powerful enough you move on to yet another zone, and so on.  It's ridiculous.  I'm already sick of Morrowind, but I can't go to Skyrim because I'll get slaughtered by the enemies along the way.  And even if I did make it there, I wouldn't be able to do anything because all the content there would be high-level.  Apparently everything and everyone in Skyrim is just way more powerful than everything and everyone in Morrowind.  Bet you didn't realize that while playing their respective games.

So then what happens if you roll a Nord?  Do you NOT start in Skyrim?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on July 03, 2014, 01:49:38 AM
I can't stand the way that the quests/activities/enemies of similar levels are all lumped together in the same zones.  You're supposed to toughen yourself up in the noob zone, and then you can move on to the next zone that has slightly higher-level content, and once you're powerful enough you move on to yet another zone, and so on.  It's ridiculous.  I'm already sick of Morrowind, but I can't go to Skyrim because I'll get slaughtered by the enemies along the way.  And even if I did make it there, I wouldn't be able to do anything because all the content there would be high-level.  Apparently everything and everyone in Skyrim is just way more powerful than everything and everyone in Morrowind.  Bet you didn't realize that while playing their respective games.

It's almost as if gameplay trumps lore or something. If ESO implemented what you're suggesting the game would be a clusterfuck.

What Saddam is describing isn't good lore or gameplay. He also didn't suggest anything.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on July 03, 2014, 02:02:40 AM
Saddam, you're playing a fucking MMO. This is like going to a brothel and complaining about all the sex.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on July 03, 2014, 02:04:42 AM
No it isn't. Not all MMOs adhere to the theme park model. This is a bit more like complaining that all of the workers in a brothel have HIV and they're dead. If any IP deserved a sandbox MMO, it was ES.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on July 03, 2014, 02:14:46 AM
Most do. ESO wasn't created to be groundbreaking, it was created to be a cash cow.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on July 03, 2014, 02:16:40 AM
That doesn't seem like a very good reason to not complain about the game. In fact, that seems like an excellent reason to complain.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on July 03, 2014, 02:54:50 AM
Complaining about such a thing is dumb. It reminds of the "old man yells at cloud" Simpsons image. Such a feature cannot be changed after the game is released, because the game would have been built around it. At no stage of development did they hint at ESO being different from other MMO's in this regard either.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on July 03, 2014, 03:02:07 AM
Complaining about such a thing is dumb. It reminds of the "old man yells at cloud" Simpsons image. Such a feature cannot be changed after the game is released, because the game would have been built around it. At no stage of development did they hint at ESO being different from other MMO's in this regard either.

Many people are complaining because the game is just fundamentally flawed beyond repair, not because they think the game can be fixed. Obviously, Zenimax Online should know that people feel this way. Videogames aren't like the weather. They're made by people who are influenced by criticism.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on July 03, 2014, 03:08:30 AM
If you believe Zenimax are going to redesign the way leveling works in their brand new MMO, then go ahead and complain all you want. I don't necessarily think the theme park design is a bad thing, either. Not that I've played ESO to see what they do with it.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on July 03, 2014, 03:10:49 AM
If you believe Zenimax are going to redesign the way leveling works in their brand new MMO, then go ahead and complain all you want. I don't necessarily think the theme park design is a bad thing, either. Not that I've played ESO to see what they do with it.

No. Zenimax are not the only ones who will react to ESO's poor reception. The entire industry reacts when a high profile game does poorly.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on July 03, 2014, 03:36:27 AM
If you believe Zenimax are going to redesign the way leveling works in their brand new MMO, then go ahead and complain all you want. I don't necessarily think the theme park design is a bad thing, either. Not that I've played ESO to see what they do with it.

No. Zenimax are not the only ones who will react to ESO's poor reception. The entire industry reacts when a high profile game does poorly.

I'm sure that's going to make a difference. How many MMO's has WoW slain now? How many continue to try and jump on the gravy train while making 0 changes to the format?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on July 03, 2014, 03:41:43 AM
If you believe Zenimax are going to redesign the way leveling works in their brand new MMO, then go ahead and complain all you want. I don't necessarily think the theme park design is a bad thing, either. Not that I've played ESO to see what they do with it.

No. Zenimax are not the only ones who will react to ESO's poor reception. The entire industry reacts when a high profile game does poorly.

I'm sure that's going to make a difference. How many MMO's has WoW slain now? How many continue to try and jump on the gravy train while making 0 changes to the format?

You're right. Life is hopeless. We should all stop complaining and just quietly play shitty videogames until we die alone at our desks.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on July 03, 2014, 03:49:17 AM
Just saying. MMO's are big business, and big production groups in video games are almost all run by greedy fucks. They're rarely game designers, they don't really care to do anything new or interesting. They just want millions of people shelling out $15/month. It never happens, but that hasn't stopped a single MMO, big budget or otherwise, from being developed in the last 10 years. If you pick an MMO up you probably know what you're getting into, so complaining about fundamental mechanics in them is beyond pointless.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on July 03, 2014, 03:50:56 AM
No it isn't. Trends change. They change because of feedback. MMOs won't be the same until the end of time.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on July 03, 2014, 04:19:44 AM
Of course MMO's change, even though they're probably the most stagnant genre out there besides big budget FPS games. But using zones as a means of level progression is probably here to stay, at least for a long time. It's not just exclusive to MMO's, but RPG's in general.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 03, 2014, 05:11:44 AM
It's almost as if gameplay trumps lore or something. If ESO implemented what you're suggesting the game would be a clusterfuck.

Did I suggest anything?  I don't know if there's a good way to balance an MMO-style leveling system with the sense of freedom that ES games ought to have, but it would have been nice to see ZeniMax at least try and take a chance with a new kind of system.

So then what happens if you roll a Nord?  Do you NOT start in Skyrim?

Well, I am playing as a Nord.  Everyone in the Ebonheart Pact starts in Morrowind, just like the other two factions have their own single starting points.  Honestly, it's kind of justified in that you simply wash up there after escaping from Coldharbour.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Lord Dave on July 03, 2014, 10:11:20 AM
So then what happens if you roll a Nord?  Do you NOT start in Skyrim?

Well, I am playing as a Nord.  Everyone in the Ebonheart Pact starts in Morrowind, just like the other two factions have their own single starting points.  Honestly, it's kind of justified in that you simply wash up there after escaping from Coldharbour.

Oh right, I forgot this is the "escape from being dead" stuff.
Still, even WoW had each city surrounded by low level areas.  And as a level one you could technically make it to most allied starting cities. 

And its not like Skyrim is small.  Its easy enough to divide each area into easy, medium, hard. (Like skyrim and oblivion did). Just means that you would travel between the countries often.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 03, 2014, 01:08:19 PM
That's not what Skyrim and Oblivion did.  They leveled the enemies alongside the player.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Lord Dave on July 03, 2014, 02:25:51 PM
That's not what Skyrim and Oblivion did.  They leveled the enemies alongside the player.
*reads up on it*
Yeah OK. Didn't notice it I guess.

This can't work in an MMO, though, unless you instance level ranges. 
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on July 03, 2014, 08:17:21 PM
Guild Wars 2 has a scaling system.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on July 03, 2014, 09:00:16 PM
Guild Wars 2 has a scaling system.
l

Guild Wars 2 sounds really interesting. The first Guild Wars was meh though, imo.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 03, 2014, 09:12:57 PM
Is GW2 the game where halfway through the main story, some boring guy shows up and then all of a sudden, he's the one that everyone treats as the main hero, not the player?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on July 03, 2014, 10:06:12 PM
Yes.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on July 04, 2014, 12:45:21 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/rpaBKJ8.jpg)

This is what he looks like. He's a fucking plant.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 04, 2014, 03:46:31 AM
Clearly, ESO isn't the only MMO to suffer from a lackluster main story.  Why do MMOs feel the need to have main stories, anyway?  I was talking about this with a couple of people on IRC the other day, and it really just seems antithetical to the entire concept of MMOs, especially ones with subscription fees.  When you tell players that they've beaten the game, it's not such a huge stretch for them to then conclude that they're done with the game.  Even setting aside the fact that the main story in ESO is just an uninspired rehash of Oblivion, the fact is that the game didn't need a main story to begin with.  Not with all the stuff they could have put into the game in its place.  Things like the Thieves Guild, the Dark Brotherhood, the Companions, the Morag Tong, the rest of the fucking map, etc.

And before anyone starts with the "But Saddam, you're practically complaining about the weather here; the laws of physics literally state that all MMOs must do these dumb things" or whatever, there already have been some exceptions. There's RuneScape, for one.  Don't laugh, I'm being quite serious.  Granted, there's a lot that game did that was really weird, and the main reason I quit playing it some years ago was that Jagex was basically just fucking it up, homogenizing it, "fixing" things that weren't broken, replacing their old animations and art styles with terrible cartoony clichés, all that awful stuff - so it's quite possible that the game is currently shit.  But it didn't hit you over the head with a stupid overarching story when you began playing, and it didn't force you to linearly travel between zones completing all the content as you went.  Most of the regions of the world were available to low-level players, and they all had their fair share of low, middle, and high-level content for players to partake in.  If you were bored with one area, you could - wait for it - go to another area, and still continue to progress normally.  I know, it's mind-blowing.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Lord Dave on July 04, 2014, 04:00:06 AM
It seems to me that they could have easily just had the story be "You just escaped from the afterlife/Oblivion/whatever along with a whole bunch of other souls.  You and your fellow souls are now the only ones who can enter Oblivion and stop whatever plot is afoot."

Then just have raids be "you've slowed down the Daedra and bought Tamriel a little more time."
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on July 04, 2014, 04:24:41 AM
Main stories are counter intuitive to an MMO with the goal being "get the player to play for a long time", yes. However, I think there is demand for story and no one has figured out how to make a good story without it being an episodic adventure. I think they think because all games have one they would fail without it. I'd like a rich gameworld with lots of lore where you're not the main character or integral to the main story of the game. It would be cool to see the world changing around you without any sort of input from yourself, but that would be impossible for an mmo.

I am a little drunk.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Lord Dave on July 04, 2014, 04:37:26 AM
Main stories are counter intuitive to an MMO with the goal being "get the player to play for a long time", yes. However, I think there is demand for story and no one has figured out how to make a good story without it being an episodic adventure. I think they think because all games have one they would fail without it. I'd like a rich gameworld with lots of lore where you're not the main character or integral to the main story of the game. It would be cool to see the world changing around you without any sort of input from yourself, but that would be impossible for an mmo.

I am a little drunk.
Most war MMOs work that way.  You're a solider and you just fight.
EVE is like that too.
Fantasy style MMOs, however, demand story.  The key is to make the story vague and unending enough that while you don't "save the day" you do at least help.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on July 04, 2014, 04:47:46 AM
I havent played much of Eve due to how demanding it is, but from what I have played and what I have read about it: it seems like an amazing MMO. The immersion alone is a selling point for me.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Lord Dave on July 04, 2014, 04:50:33 AM
I havent played much of Eve due to how demanding it is, but from what I have played and what I have read about it: it seems like an amazing MMO. The immersion alone is a selling point for me.
That's part of why I don't like it.
It's so immersive it's more like a second life than a fun adventure. 
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on July 04, 2014, 04:54:22 AM
I feel the same way. I like the idea of it a lot but its too demanding for me to continually play it to make even the slightest progress.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on July 04, 2014, 06:35:44 AM
Is GW2 the game where halfway through the main story, some boring guy shows up and then all of a sudden, he's the one that everyone treats as the main hero, not the player?

Yeah, but what's that got to do with its scaling system?

A lot of people hate Trahearne, I don't really mind him. He's a fairly bland mary sue, but the first half of the personal story is so good I can forgive the writers for fucking that up. And the conclusion to the story is pretty cool as well. Season 2 living story has nothing to do with him or The Pact, but instead much more interesting characters with personalities, so it should be good.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on July 04, 2014, 06:53:52 AM
I was never bothered by him. But my friends thinks he's meh.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 04, 2014, 06:52:23 PM
Yeah, but what's that got to do with its scaling system?

Nothing at all, it was just something I recalled hearing a lot of people complaining about.  Other complaints included his potted plant design and boring text-to-speech program voice.

And speaking of annoying voices, man, I really hate Jennifer Hale.  I hate to say this because it sounds incredibly sexist, but there's something about her voice that just sounds so bossy, so bitchy, so nagging, that it's a pain to listen to.  And of course, it is simply her voice that I'm criticizing, not her specific performance, because she never gives a specific performance.  She never changes her voice, never changes her accent, no, it's always the one-voice-fits-all-roles from her.  I'm sure she's a nice lady in real life and all, but I'm not a fan of how ubiquitous she is in video games.

The other major voice actors are better.  I've only seen John Cleese and Alfred Molina briefly so far, but they seem to do all right.  And Michael Gambon is great as the Prophet.  Yes, even when he talks about how I and I alone am the Chosen One who is destined to save Tamriel.  To be fair, that's believable because the main quest is fully instanced, which is a very, very good thing.  If the way it worked was that a bunch of other people were standing around while the Prophet told me how special I was, I wouldn't bother wasting my time on the main quest.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on July 05, 2014, 03:00:21 PM
But saddam, I never received that quest. You are literally the only person in ESO with the save the world quest. You are special.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 05, 2014, 03:50:42 PM
I am the canonical hero of this game.

Also, they've taken a fairly casual approach to time travel.  I've already warped into the past twice, and both times it was only after completing a standard "get me five of these" MMO quest.  I seem to recall in Skyrim that time travel was kind of a big deal - it required an Elder Scroll, and it wasn't even so much time travel as it was simply viewing what happened in the past.  If only the Dragonborn had known a Telvanni mage, he could have saved himself a lot of work.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on July 05, 2014, 04:16:00 PM
I am the canonical hero of this game.

Also, they've taken a fairly casual approach to time travel.  I've already warped into the past twice, and both times it was only after completing a standard "get me five of these" MMO quest.  I seem to recall in Skyrim that time travel was kind of a big deal - it required an Elder Scroll, and it wasn't even so much time travel as it was simply viewing what happened in the past.  If only the Dragonborn had known a Telvanni mage, he could have saved himself a lot of work.

Hundreds of people going back and forth in time later made Akatosh angry and he fixed it by the time later TES games occurred. There, your lore lore lore has been saved.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on July 05, 2014, 04:20:03 PM
If only the Dragonborn had known a Telvanni mage
But he does.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 05, 2014, 05:30:41 PM
Hundreds of people going back and forth in time later made Akatosh angry and he fixed it by the time later TES games occurred. There, your lore lore lore has been saved.

Fanwanking to the rescue!

If only the Dragonborn had known a Telvanni mage
But he does.

Chronologically, the DLC seems to come after the events of the main story.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on July 05, 2014, 05:37:00 PM
Hehhehehe
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Lemon on July 05, 2014, 06:37:07 PM
I forgot about this shit man does it still suck ass like all MMOs you nerdy ass mofos
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 05, 2014, 07:57:44 PM
I forgot about this shit man does it still suck ass like all MMOs you nerdy ass mofos

Some elements of it suck pretty hard.  Others are surprisingly good.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on July 05, 2014, 07:58:11 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/9aSGVh0.png)
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on July 05, 2014, 09:18:54 PM
Is Ganon a pig?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on July 05, 2014, 09:28:25 PM
Is Ganon a pig?

Yes, he's pretty much a pig demon.

Do you have a problem with that?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on July 05, 2014, 09:36:51 PM
No.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on July 05, 2014, 09:40:44 PM
Good. Bitch.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on July 06, 2014, 06:11:43 AM
Good. Bitch.
I resent this remark.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on July 06, 2014, 06:15:19 AM
I forgot about this shit man does it still suck ass like all MMOs you nerdy ass mofos

Some elements of it suck pretty hard.  Others are surprisingly good.

What is surprisingly good?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on July 06, 2014, 06:25:33 AM
I forgot about this shit man does it still suck ass like all MMOs you nerdy ass mofos

Some elements of it suck pretty hard.  Others are surprisingly good.

What is surprisingly good?
You can put a beer belly on your character.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on July 06, 2014, 06:27:35 AM
Hey, Vauxy, remember when Diego was complaining about how Oblivion sucked because of minor lore deviations from prior games?  And then it turned out that a lot of what he was saying wasn't actually true.

I demand this question be answered!  Here's the thread in question:

http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=12855.0

That's a blast from the past. It's blowing my mind. I don't even remember typing any of that. But I still stand by my younger words, and yes... I cheated a lot.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 06, 2014, 09:19:53 PM
I forgot about this shit man does it still suck ass like all MMOs you nerdy ass mofos

Some elements of it suck pretty hard.  Others are surprisingly good.

What is surprisingly good?

I like the quests.  Even though most of them do fit the basic MMO format, they incorporate the lore and setting in ways that help make it feel like it's a genuine Elder Scrolls game.  So, to use the "bear asses" example, instead of getting a quest like "These bears are annoying me, could you kill five of them and bring me their asses?" you get something like "Ashlander shamans have cast a spell on the surrounding wildlife and have driven the bears into a mad killing frenzy!  If you can gather five bear asses and bring them to me, we can perform a ritual to dispel the magic!"  And then that might lead to another quest where you confront these Ashlander shamans, and so on.  Obviously, that's not a real quest; there are no bears in Morrowind.  That's just the general way they dress these quests up.

The combat is interesting, and actually quite challenging.  Timing, blocking, and countering are a lot more important than they were in previous titles, and you have to juggle your special abilities, knowing when to use which ones against which kinds of enemies and whatnot.  Speaking of special abilities, that's what your class governs, and yeah, I really like the class system.  Your special abilities are of course important, but you're still free to wear whatever armor and use whatever weapons you like, just like in any other ES title.  It's exactly the kind of balancing between the traditional ES format and the usual MMO format that I was talking about earlier.  I wish they could have done something similar with other aspects of the game, like the dopey zone-to-zone theme park style.

Also, there is lore.  lore lore lore
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on July 06, 2014, 09:42:28 PM
Sounds like GW2 is better.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on July 06, 2014, 11:16:45 PM
I like the quests.  Even though most of them do fit the basic MMO format, they incorporate the lore and setting in ways that help make it feel like it's a genuine Elder Scrolls game.  So, to use the "bear asses" example, instead of getting a quest like "These bears are annoying me, could you kill five of them and bring me their asses?" you get something like "Ashlander shamans have cast a spell on the surrounding wildlife and have driven the bears into a mad killing frenzy!  If you can gather five bear asses and bring them to me, we can perform a ritual to dispel the magic!"  And then that might lead to another quest where you confront these Ashlander shamans, and so on.  Obviously, that's not a real quest; there are no bears in Morrowind.  That's just the general way they dress these quests up.

The combat is interesting, and actually quite challenging.  Timing, blocking, and countering are a lot more important than they were in previous titles, and you have to juggle your special abilities, knowing when to use which ones against which kinds of enemies and whatnot.  Speaking of special abilities, that's what your class governs, and yeah, I really like the class system.  Your special abilities are of course important, but you're still free to wear whatever armor and use whatever weapons you like, just like in any other ES title.  It's exactly the kind of balancing between the traditional ES format and the usual MMO format that I was talking about earlier.  I wish they could have done something similar with other aspects of the game, like the dopey zone-to-zone theme park style.

Also, there is lore.  lore lore lore

Generic MMO is generic. From what I've played and what you said, ESO is really just World of Warcraft Elder Scrolls.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on July 06, 2014, 11:26:33 PM
Go here. Kill these. Bring me their asses. Add lore and you still have a really generic MMO formula.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on July 07, 2014, 12:38:14 AM
Sounds like GW2 is better.

TESO's dialogue screens and character designs are better, so there.

I don't know, GW2 has some bloody beautiful dialogue screens.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on July 07, 2014, 12:40:26 AM
I'm tempted to try ESO for a month. Too bad it costs 200 dollars. How did you get it cheepy cheepy Saddam?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 07, 2014, 06:15:45 PM
I didn't really get it cheap.  Green Man Gaming was offering a 25% discount one day, and I bought it on impulse.

I made it to Mournhold!  It doesn't really look like it did in Tribunal.  And Almalexia is absolutely nothing like she was in Tribunal.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on July 07, 2014, 10:14:58 PM
A lot can change in 1000+ years.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 07, 2014, 10:40:53 PM
800 years.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on July 07, 2014, 10:43:38 PM
k
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on July 08, 2014, 07:38:07 AM
lol. Alexandyr got a lore thing wrong.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on July 08, 2014, 07:46:04 AM
lol, lore nerds
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on July 08, 2014, 07:56:59 AM
I don't even care. I would probably have known that if I weren't so busy getting laid all the time.  :-B
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on July 08, 2014, 08:07:22 AM
Getting laid? What a loser.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 08, 2014, 01:50:33 PM
It's possible to complete some quests out of order, and then it clashes with the overall storyline and stuff doesn't make sense later!  I helped out this Morag Tong lady on a quest, but I was supposed to do some other lower-level quest first, and now I'm being introduced to the Morag Tong lady like we've never met before.  Stop being such a theme park, game!
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on July 08, 2014, 04:50:08 PM
It's possible to complete some quests out of order, and then it clashes with the overall storyline and stuff doesn't make sense later!  I helped out this Morag Tong lady on a quest, but I was supposed to do some other lower-level quest first, and now I'm being introduced to the Morag Tong lady like we've never met before.  Stop being such a theme park, game!

Making a game that detects other quest completion dynamically is labor intensive and making one quest require another is obnoxious from a gameplay perspective. I'm not really sure what you're expecting, Saddam. It's almost like you expected something that isn't an MMO and are now perturbed that you're playing an MMO.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Lord Dave on July 08, 2014, 06:08:52 PM
It's possible to complete some quests out of order, and then it clashes with the overall storyline and stuff doesn't make sense later!  I helped out this Morag Tong lady on a quest, but I was supposed to do some other lower-level quest first, and now I'm being introduced to the Morag Tong lady like we've never met before.  Stop being such a theme park, game!

Making a game that detects other quest completion dynamically is labor intensive and making one quest require another is obnoxious from a gameplay perspective. I'm not really sure what you're expecting, Saddam. It's almost like you expected something that isn't an MMO and are now perturbed that you're playing an MMO.
Or just skip the introduction.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: fappenhosen on July 09, 2014, 07:45:01 PM
Making a game that detects other quest completion dynamically is labor intensive and making one quest require another is obnoxious from a gameplay perspective.

if quest1.complete:
    quest2.run()

Pretty sure game coders have been doing this for a few years. If not, the above is proprietary software and may not be duplicated, copied, shared, looked at or read out loud.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on July 09, 2014, 09:21:41 PM
It's possible to complete some quests out of order, and then it clashes with the overall storyline and stuff doesn't make sense later!  I helped out this Morag Tong lady on a quest, but I was supposed to do some other lower-level quest first, and now I'm being introduced to the Morag Tong lady like we've never met before.  Stop being such a theme park, game!

Making a game that detects other quest completion dynamically is labor intensive and making one quest require another is obnoxious from a gameplay perspective. I'm not really sure what you're expecting, Saddam. It's almost like you expected something that isn't an MMO and are now perturbed that you're playing an MMO.

Saddam whinging about this being an MMO seems to be the running theme.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 10, 2014, 05:30:49 AM
Making a game that detects other quest completion dynamically is labor intensive and making one quest require another is obnoxious from a gameplay perspective...

And therefore, they had no choice but to make a good chunk of the quests in the game be part of a very long, very linear overarching storyline where it's easy to inadvertently skip ahead in the story if you go wandering.  Okay, it all makes sense now.

I remember back on the old site some people were discussing how exactly travel to and from Cyrodiil would be handled, seeing how they wouldn't be allowing people to travel into territories not controlled by their faction.  Well, here's how it works.  You bring up the multiplayer menu, select a campaign...and then you vanish and reappear in Cyrodiil.  Just like that.  They don't even bother handwaving it away as you teleporting there.  It's a game mechanic that they simply did not bother integrating with the story.  And before anyone starts, no, this is not a quirk inherent to MMOs and impossible to handle well.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on July 10, 2014, 05:48:03 AM
That's fucking atrocious.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on July 10, 2014, 06:04:03 AM
I remember back on the old site some people were discussing how exactly travel to and from Cyrodiil would be handled, seeing how they wouldn't be allowing people to travel into territories not controlled by their faction.  Well, here's how they handle it.  You bring up the multiplayer menu, select a campaign...and then you vanish and reappear in Cyrodiil.  Just like that.  They don't even bother handwaving it away as you teleporting there.  It's a game mechanic that they simply did not bother integrating with the story.  And before anyone starts, no, this is not a quirk inherent to MMOs and impossible to handle well.

I'm not sure how I should judge this as I'm not familiar with how the game works. Why is this a bad thing?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on July 10, 2014, 06:11:35 AM
Did your nan create this game, Vindictus? Why are you unwilling to admit that it's at all flawed?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on July 10, 2014, 06:27:52 AM
huh what? I've been bagging this game since the thread was created on the old forums. I just think some of Saddam's whinging is funny because it's so redundant.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Lord Dave on July 10, 2014, 10:36:32 AM
I remember back on the old site some people were discussing how exactly travel to and from Cyrodiil would be handled, seeing how they wouldn't be allowing people to travel into territories not controlled by their faction.  Well, here's how they handle it.  You bring up the multiplayer menu, select a campaign...and then you vanish and reappear in Cyrodiil.  Just like that.  They don't even bother handwaving it away as you teleporting there.  It's a game mechanic that they simply did not bother integrating with the story.  And before anyone starts, no, this is not a quirk inherent to MMOs and impossible to handle well.
So you teleport to what? A clusterfuck PVP battle between three teams?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 10, 2014, 08:24:47 PM
I'm not sure how I should judge this as I'm not familiar with how the game works. Why is this a bad thing?

It hurts immersion.  This isn't an FPS where you can just switch between campaign and multiplayer; it's an RPG, and you're playing as the same character in both PvE and PvP.  They shouldn't be treating it as a completely different setting that requires no transition whatsoever.

The PvP itself is quite confusing, and strangely enough, I have yet to see any, well, PvP in it.  Just some incredibly overpowered NPCs and monsters.  Also, I'm not sure how much of this is due to the quirks of the PvP area itself and how much of it is due to the fact that my alliance happens to be sucking a big one in this campaign and we only control a couple of bases, but there are only a couple of wayshrines available for teleporting to, which basically means I have to travel across Cyrodiil on foot, and whenever I die, I respawn on the very edge of the map where my bases are.  It's every bit as tedious and frustrating as it sounds.  The only thing of note I managed to do was find Cheydinhal and complete a few quests there.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on July 11, 2014, 08:41:44 AM
Sounds like GW2 does massive scale PvP better as well. They didn't even bother with a real lore explanation for PvP, they just made some islands completely separate to the main map (but still on it) for everyone to fight on.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on July 11, 2014, 09:58:37 AM
Perhaps they think of it as fast travel, just like how you can fast travel to discovered wayshrines in the PvE area (I assume you actually can do that).
But they really should have done it so you'd have to use a horse wagon or a portal, or at least use the map for fast travel and not through the fucking game menus.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 11, 2014, 03:56:01 PM
Perhaps they think of it as fast travel, just like how you can fast travel to discovered wayshrines in the PvE area (I assume you actually can do that).

Actually, you teleport to them.  It even shows you briefly casting a spell or something if you aren't currently at a wayshrine.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on July 11, 2014, 04:23:54 PM
Okay.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Pete Svarrior on July 11, 2014, 05:49:52 PM
Making a game that detects other quest completion dynamically is labor intensive and making one quest require another is obnoxious from a gameplay perspective.

if quest1.complete:
    quest2.run()

Pretty sure game coders have been doing this for a few years. If not, the above is proprietary software and may not be duplicated, copied, shared, looked at or read out loud.
m8 you'd need a loop there somewhere, otherwise it wouldn't be dynamic, duh.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 12, 2014, 04:16:24 AM
On a more positive note, the UI in this game is quite good, both in terms of it being an MMO and an Elder Scrolls title.  There's no minimap or annoying white text floating above other players' heads cluttering up your line of sight, just a compass system that's almost identical to the one in Skyrim, with a little caption directly underneath the compass that tells you the name of whatever person or place you're looking at.  That adds a lot to immersion.  As for your map, equipment, quest log, skills, etc., that's all handled with separate screens, every one of which makes use of the ample space it has to clearly convey information, goes for simplicity over pretty visuals, and uses some categorization to save you from spending most of your time scrolling through enormous lists.  And to top it off, the map is actually a map, not a weird 3D GPS thing like in Skyrim.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Parsifal on July 12, 2014, 04:49:56 AM
According to this (http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=15787), I might be able to join you guys soon.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Parsifal on July 12, 2014, 04:59:44 AM
Oh, this thing costs money. I don't even know if it will work, so I'm reluctant to spend anything until I do.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 12, 2014, 05:18:31 AM
Alas, there is no we, only me.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Parsifal on July 12, 2014, 05:21:29 AM
Alas, there is no we, only me.

Oh, I saw beardo saying "I'm playing it too", but I just realised that people were talking about other games in a TESO thread for some reason.

Given the abundance of reviews on WineHQ which say it works extremely well on Linux, I'm tempted to take the risk and buy it. What do you think, sadaam?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on July 12, 2014, 05:56:17 AM
They won't have a customer in me until they drop the monthly subscription.
i.e. never.

(okay, if the base price ever gets cheaper somewhere, I might consider trying it out for a month. One month).
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 14, 2014, 12:00:26 AM
Now, on to the hard cold facts. Skyrim has three tiers of settlements: major cities, minor cities, and towns. Oblivion has two: cities and towns. Morthal, Winterhold, and Dawnstar are all minor cities. If you're going to compare settlements, it only makes sense to compare Skyrim's major cities (Solitude, Windhelm, Markarth... you know, the "real" cities) to Oblivion's cities. In that case, I don't know anybody who prefers Oblivion's city design. The cities in Oblivion are basically all just blobs of buildings on a flat plain. In Skyrim, cities are integrated with the environment in more interesting ways. Markarth is carved into a mountainside. Solitude is built on an enormous rock arch by the sea. Riften is a blob of buildings on a flat plain. O wait. Basically, improved technology allowed BGS to realize something closer to what was portrayed in their concept drawings. The concepts for Oblivion cities were great too (Here's (http://i.neoseeker.com/ca/elder_scrolls_iv_oblivion_conceptart_iHlmt.jpg) what Leyawiin could have looked like), but time constraints and unfamiliarity with the hardware they were developing for would prove to be 2serious.

Was that a joke?  Half of Riften is built on that intricate dock structure.  Regardless, your overall point is sound and these are wise words.  And let's not forget Windhelm, where the harsh weather combined with the tight design and narrow roads gives off that wonderfully tense, claustrophobic vibe.  The only major city in the game that really has a generic design is Whiterun, and that's somewhat justified in that it's kind of the main hub of the game, as well as most likely your first major city.

I'm in Black Marsh!  It's full of disgruntled former slaves and crocodiles and Ayleid ruins and so much more.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on July 14, 2014, 12:26:38 AM
I really just meant to concede that Riften is kind of boring compared to the other two I listed, but yeah, it's still much better than anything in Oboringvion.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 16, 2014, 07:32:12 PM
<Saddam> beardo: Windhelm
<Saddam> I am there
<beardo> No you're not.
<Saddam> I am too
<beardo> I say, that is not Windhelm.
<Saddam> It is
<Saddam> It is labeled on my map as Windhelm
<beardo> It is what Zenimax calls Windhelm, but Windhelm it is not.
<Saddam> The locals refer to it as Windhelm
<Saddam> It occupies the same place on the map as Windhelm
<beardo> It doesn't look like Windhelm, ergo, it's not Windhelm.
<Saddam> In all seriousness, yeah, the reshuffling of the city is pretty bad
<Saddam> I don't mind them expanding it in terms of size, but the layout is all wrong
<Saddam> At least Riften still followed the basic layout it had in Skyrim
<beardo> Then there are people who likes to point out "But this is what the city is supposed to look like! They just couldn't do it in Skyrim's engine!"
<Saddam> Who said that?
<beardo> I don't remember where I read it
<Saddam> And I'm pretty sure that Skyrim's engine was capable of a lot more than this game's
<beardo> It wasn't in those exact words either
<Saddam> At least in terms of location design
<beardo> Well, mayb it was something like that consoles couldn't handle the size or something
<beardo> because that's probably true
<Saddam> But TESO will also be coming out on consoles
<beardo> Yes, but TESO looks worse than Skyrim
<beardo> And it's also a completely different engine
<beardo> It's made to allow pic places with many many character and NPC's. Skyrim's engine isn't.
<beardo> big*
<beardo> A modern computer can probably handle it. But not a xbox360 or ps3
<Saddam> I'm seeing a lot of empty space here
<Saddam> And this game is hardly demanding on hardware
<Saddam> You could run it on any shitty laptop
<beardo> They've made the graphics look worse so that they can make consoles handle the large areas with many characters on screen.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Lord Dave on July 16, 2014, 08:32:00 PM
<beardo> They've made the graphics look worse so that they can make consoles handle the large areas with many characters on screen.
Which caused less players to play it.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on July 16, 2014, 08:40:00 PM
<beardo> They've made the graphics look worse so that they can make consoles handle the large areas with many characters on screen.
Which caused less players to play it.

I would think that making your game less graphically intensive so that people with low-powered PCs can play it would cause more people to play?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Lord Dave on July 16, 2014, 08:44:22 PM
<beardo> They've made the graphics look worse so that they can make consoles handle the large areas with many characters on screen.
Which caused less players to play it.

I would think that making your game less graphically intensive so that people with low-powered PCs can play it would cause more people to play?
If you play games and have a low powered PC, you aren't likely going to play MMOs.  The only exception is if the game is completely awesome damn good (or popular) like WoW or Half-Life 2.  This is neither.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 16, 2014, 09:19:30 PM
I doubt if the graphics were a deciding factor in anyone's decision to buy this game.  Personally, I think they're fine, although they could have stood to make the character design a little more distinctive.  Almost everyone you meet is overly pretty and glossy in that generic Hollywood way.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on July 16, 2014, 10:34:23 PM
Fucking smoothskins. Absolutely disgusting. I demand scars, wrinkles and dirt!
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 16, 2014, 10:58:03 PM
Quite right.  Characters should look like this:

(http://oi60.tinypic.com/25yw1mp.jpg)

They should not look like Justin Timberlake here:

(http://oi57.tinypic.com/288w9wp.jpg)

I tried my best to make my Nord look badass, but only had limited success.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on July 16, 2014, 11:11:19 PM

(http://oi57.tinypic.com/288w9wp.jpg)

This game needs a gender slider like Dark Souls.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on July 16, 2014, 11:23:37 PM
IRC snip

Hey retards, Windhelm's design in Skyrim is not canon. You may as well complain that Skyrim didn't depict Windhelm the same way Arena did. In the lore, major cities have populations larger than 50-100.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on July 17, 2014, 12:02:03 AM

(http://oi57.tinypic.com/288w9wp.jpg)

This game needs a gender slider like Dark Souls.

(http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/1667/mulef.jpg)
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on July 17, 2014, 12:11:20 AM
^ is that supposed to look like an undead from WoW?

(http://i.imgur.com/RzlFkDL.png)

Meet uguukawaii.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Snupes on July 17, 2014, 01:16:54 AM
IRC snip

Hey retards, Windhelm's design in Skyrim is not canon. You may as well complain that Skyrim didn't depict Windhelm the same way Arena did. In the lore, major cities have populations larger than 50-100.

Alex is wise. According to most of the games, about 1,000 people live in all of Tamriel.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on July 17, 2014, 01:42:52 AM
Hardware restrictions dictate canonicity now.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on July 17, 2014, 07:17:59 PM
Alex is wise. According to most of the games, about 1,000 people live in all of Tamriel.

This is probably because in TES games there is always this one person who slaughters significant portions of the population while simultaneously being leader of all guilds.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on July 17, 2014, 09:08:46 PM
somehow there's an endless ammount of outlaws.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 17, 2014, 09:29:06 PM
Hey retards, Windhelm's design in Skyrim is not canon. You may as well complain that Skyrim didn't depict Windhelm the same way Arena did. In the lore, major cities have populations larger than 50-100.

Double false equivalence fallacy.  First of all, nobody cares about how cities or dungeons or pretty much anything in Arena was depicted.  Beyond the fact that most of it was randomly generated, Arena was a dull, linear, Nintendo-hard, broken piece of shit even by 1994's standards.  Approximately zero people have bothered to play it for more than five minutes nowadays.  Your second fallacy is you apparently feigning ignorance of the trope where populations and sizes of video game universes are condensed in order to have an actually playable game.  Obviously a little suspension of disbelief is called for on that front.  It doesn't follow that we can extend said suspension of disbelief to other elements of the game, like the city design.  If it did, we could challenge pretty much anything that happens in these games.  Hey, maybe the Skyrim Civil War never happened, because wars involve more than a few dozen guys whacking each other in each battle!

Also, on the notion of hair:

<beardo> do you even beard?
<beardo> pics
<Saddam> No
<beardo> bitch, plz
<Saddam> All the beards are neatly trimmed and metrosexual
<beardo> wat
<Saddam> I have a five-o-clock shadow
<Foxbox> A baked pie
<beardo> why would they^?
<beardo> why?
<Saddam> I told you that the character design in this game is very homosexual
<beardo> I DEMAND AN EXPLANATION
<Saddam> Actually, I'm being dumb
<Saddam> The beards are fine
<Saddam> It's the hairstyles that are terrible
<beardo> so there are rugged manly beards?
<Saddam> Some of them are rugged and manly
<beardo> good
<beardo> good..
<beardo> now, what is this I hear about hair?
<Saddam> But you can't have the long sweat-drenched hair anymore
<beardo> FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
<Saddam> That was the coolest hairstyle ever
<Crudblud> I didn't realise the hair in Skyrim was supposed to be sweat-drenched, I thought it was just shoddily made
<Saddam> It was like having "badass" stamped on your forehead
<Saddam> Some of them are meant to be sweat-drenched
<Saddam> The game was nice enough to give us options
<beardo> Not to imply Vikings were dirty, because they weren't.
<beardo> But they didn't have hairstyles straight out of a beauty saloon
<Saddam> If my hair were long enough, I would grab some gel and give that look a try
<Saddam> It's the right color already
<Saddam> I think I could pull it off
<beardo> I suppose the most tolerable hairstyle in TESO is the bald one then
<beardo> IF there is a bald one
<Saddam> There is indeed a bald one
<beardo> I suppose 90% of them are modern prettyboy styles
<Saddam> Pretty much
<beardo> I don't fucking get that?
<Saddam> Well, maybe not "modern"
<beardo> What is the purpose?
<Saddam> But they're all clean and neat and nicely combed and everything
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on July 17, 2014, 10:51:11 PM
Absolutely disgusting.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on July 18, 2014, 12:17:43 AM
Hey retards, Windhelm's design in Skyrim is not canon. You may as well complain that Skyrim didn't depict Windhelm the same way Arena did. In the lore, major cities have populations larger than 50-100.

Double false equivalence fallacy.  First of all, nobody cares about how cities or dungeons or pretty much anything in Arena was depicted.  Beyond the fact that most of it was randomly generated, Arena was a dull, linear, Nintendo-hard, broken piece of shit even by 1994's standards.  Approximately zero people have bothered to play it for more than five minutes nowadays.  Your second fallacy is you apparently feigning ignorance of the trope where populations and sizes of video game universes are condensed in order to have an actually playable game.  Obviously a little suspension of disbelief is called for on that front.  It doesn't follow that we can extend said suspension to disbelief to other elements of the game, like the city design.  If it did, we could challenge pretty much anything that happens in these games.  Hey, maybe the Skyrim Civil War never happened, because wars involve more than a few dozen guys whacking each other in each battle!

Triple backflip 360 jackknife fallacy. A city's population is obviously going to affect its design. I am aware that the scale is condensed for gameplay, because that's my entire point. Do you think that "canon" Windhelm looks exactly the same as Skyrim's, only with each building 1000 times as big? Because that would need to be the case for it to support the population that it would have lore-wise. They changed the look of Daggerfall and Sentinel quite a bit as well. Why doesn't that bother you? Also, Arena is not linear.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on July 18, 2014, 01:54:37 AM
It bothers Saddam that no one has sat down and created the entire TES universe out of stone and said "this is as it shall be forever and ever."
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 18, 2014, 02:12:15 AM
Triple backflip 360 jackknife fallacy.

NO U!

Quote
A city's population is obviously going to affect its design. I am aware that the scale is condensed for gameplay, because that's my entire point. Do you think that "canon" Windhelm looks exactly the same as Skyrim's, only with each building 1000 times as big? Because that would need to be the case for it to support the population that it would have lore-wise.

Not the buildings themselves, but the city in general.  There would be more buildings, the streets would be longer, the city would take up significantly more landmass, etc.  That's how I always imagined it, anyway.  But in any case, what does this have to do with TESO?  It's not like its depiction of Windhelm is meant to be the "canonical" version of the city in terms of size or population.  Neither of them properly fit the lore, so they might as well make the design consistent.

Quote
They changed the look of Daggerfall and Sentinel quite a bit as well. Why doesn't that bother you?

Because shitty technology and flat, pixelated landscapes.  It wasn't until after Daggerfall that Bethesda finally decided to drop their quantity-over-quality approach and instead focus on smaller, well-designed areas, which they demonstrated admirably with Redguard:

(http://oi57.tinypic.com/2qi1seq.jpg)

(http://oi58.tinypic.com/3326q7b.jpg)

(http://oi59.tinypic.com/n5jdc.jpg)

Magnificent.  Speaking of which, I think I'm going to start a Daggerfag Covenant character.  I want to see how Stros M'Kai looks in comparison to Redguard.

Quote
Also, Arena is not linear.

Fine, I'll concede that point.  It's still a shitty game, though.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on July 18, 2014, 05:16:34 AM
tl;dr

I just bought a month, since it's 50% off on Steam for the weekend. The client is 80GB.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on July 18, 2014, 06:14:58 AM
80GB? Got damn.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Blanko on July 18, 2014, 07:11:46 AM
Neither of them properly fit the lore, so they might as well make the design consistent.

But by having a different design, it is consistent in design, because it's expected that a city is going to change drastically in 800 years.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on July 18, 2014, 09:37:31 AM
Hey retards, Windhelm's design in Skyrim is not canon. You may as well complain that Skyrim didn't depict Windhelm the same way Arena did. In the lore, major cities have populations larger than 50-100.

Double false equivalence fallacy.

Triple backflip 360 jackknife fallacy.

Ah, this is fantastic.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on July 18, 2014, 09:40:46 AM
When the fuck did TESO get on Steam?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on July 18, 2014, 09:43:32 AM
Neither of them properly fit the lore, so they might as well make the design consistent.

But by having a different design, it is consistent in design, because it's expected that a city is going to change drastically in 800 years.
I wouldn't expect it to shrink though.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Blanko on July 18, 2014, 09:58:19 AM
Neither of them properly fit the lore, so they might as well make the design consistent.

But by having a different design, it is consistent in design, because it's expected that a city is going to change drastically in 800 years.
I wouldn't expect it to shrink though.

There's no way of telling if the city actually shrunk in terms of lore, because the game representation is obviously much smaller than the actual lore size in both instances. Thus it shouldn't even have to be considered.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on July 18, 2014, 10:45:15 AM
Anyway, now that it's 27,49€ on steam for the weekend, I kinda want it. I'd rather it go down to -75%, but that won't happen with such a new title.
What do? :-\
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Snupes on July 18, 2014, 12:46:00 PM
Get it so I can hear more about how bad it is and have more reason to hate it without actually playing it
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on July 18, 2014, 01:02:23 PM
I feel this is the only chance I get if I'm going to try it out for a cheaper price. I could wait for the winter holiday sales, but I doubt they'll make it -75% off by then either. And 27,49€ is not too bad for a new game. I won't make any rash decisions though. I have a whole weekend to consider this.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 18, 2014, 01:40:18 PM
Neither of them properly fit the lore, so they might as well make the design consistent.

But by having a different design, it is consistent in design, because it's expected that a city is going to change drastically in 800 years.

1,000 years.  Also, reality is unrealistic (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RealityIsUnrealistic).  Sure, realistically, the city would look absolutely nothing like it does in Skyrim.  But we're fans of the older games, dammit, and we'd have enjoyed seeing cities that looked more like they did in those games.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Blanko on July 18, 2014, 01:51:33 PM
So you're literally just complaining because you're a stupid person with stupid expectation and TESO is actually doing exactly what it's supposed to be doing
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 18, 2014, 02:48:25 PM
TESO isn't "supposed" to be doing anything on this subject.  I, along with, I suspect, most fans, would have liked to see cities that looked more like how they did in previous titles.  That's it.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on July 18, 2014, 10:33:56 PM
Neither of them properly fit the lore, so they might as well make the design consistent.

But by having a different design, it is consistent in design, because it's expected that a city is going to change drastically in 800 years.

1,000 years.  Also, reality is unrealistic (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RealityIsUnrealistic).  Sure, realistically, the city would look absolutely nothing like it does in Skyrim.  But we're fans of the older games, dammit, and we'd have enjoyed seeing cities that looked more like they did in those games.

What "older games"? Surely you don't mean Skyrim.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Blanko on July 18, 2014, 10:37:54 PM
Neither of them properly fit the lore, so they might as well make the design consistent.

But by having a different design, it is consistent in design, because it's expected that a city is going to change drastically in 800 years.

1,000 years.  Also, reality is unrealistic (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RealityIsUnrealistic).  Sure, realistically, the city would look absolutely nothing like it does in Skyrim.  But we're fans of the older games, dammit, and we'd have enjoyed seeing cities that looked more like they did in those games.

What "older games"? Surely you don't mean Skyrim.

The games he played, obviously.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on July 18, 2014, 10:41:25 PM
[Redguard fanboyism]


(http://i.imgur.com/uTNqd1D.jpg)

Yeah, Redguard looks great...  ::)

If the entire game looks this bad, then I'd say Arena is more visually appealing than Redguard, easily. Also, the draw-distance fucking sucks.

(http://i.imgur.com/vVPqCTr.png)

Atleast you can tell what is going on here, and you get to create your own character. Not everyone wants to play as Cyrus with a candle-stick meter and rapier gauge.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on July 18, 2014, 10:49:46 PM
Not everyone wants to play as Cyrus
Racist.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Zentic Lord on July 18, 2014, 11:16:48 PM
Zentifically speaking, one would wish to play as Cyprus if one wished to play Rudyard, as he is the character one plays, and if one did not play him one would not play.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on July 18, 2014, 11:18:00 PM
You need to get out of this thread. I am an anti-zentite.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on July 18, 2014, 11:21:10 PM
Zentifically speaking, one would wish to play as Cyprus if one wished to play Rudyard, as he is the character one plays, and if one did not play him one would not play.

This is sound Zentific reasoning.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: beardo on July 18, 2014, 11:34:35 PM
Cyprus Hill
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 19, 2014, 02:23:14 AM
What "older games"? Surely you don't mean Skyrim.

Yes, along with Morrowind and Oblivion.  I'll let Redguard slide.  What about TESO?  Have you finished downloading it yet?  Have you played it?  What do you think, huh huh huh?

(http://i.imgur.com/uTNqd1D.jpg)

Yeah, Redguard looks great...  ::)

If the entire game looks this bad, then I'd say Arena is more visually appealing than Redguard, easily. Also, the draw-distance fucking sucks.

You posted an incredibly shitty picture, so of course the game looks bad.

Quote
(http://i.imgur.com/vVPqCTr.png)

Atleast you can tell what is going on here, and you get to create your own character. Not everyone wants to play as Cyrus with a candle-stick meter and rapier gauge.

First of all, the rapier isn't a gauge, it just indicates that your sword is equipped and ready to use.  The picture changes depending on what item you equip.  Second of all, Redguard isn't an RPG.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on July 19, 2014, 02:47:54 AM
I've played a little bit. I created a master race Dunmer master class Sorcerer. I haven't done much apart from run around Morrowind after finishing the obligatory annoying starter dungeon. First impressions: it looks great for an MMO. Combat feels like a floatier version of Skyrim's (so Oblivion's combat system, basically), which is understandable. It requires more active participation than most other MMOs, at least. If I were to play with a good group of people, I think I could enjoy this game. It may help that I've never really seriously played an MMO apart from EVE, so I'm not weary of all the genre's tropes.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on July 19, 2014, 03:34:55 AM
EVE, arguably the only MMO that requires you to think.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on July 19, 2014, 03:38:56 AM
EVE master race.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on July 19, 2014, 03:46:53 AM
In other news, Skyrim has some horrendous microstuttering problem in caves for me, which seems to be a recent problem. The only way I have found that fixes it is to set the CPU affinity to one core. Skyrim is surprisingly CPU dependent, which is funny considering how horridly optimized it is. It fixes the microstuttering but causes FPS drops in the open world because my i5-3570k isn't capable of running all of Skyrim's processes on one core. Damned if I do, damned if I don't.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on July 19, 2014, 02:08:15 PM
Your only option is to play TESO.

You know, for a game you complain so much about, you sure do like it a lot.


...it is 50% off on Steam right now... but seeing as how it came out just a few months ago, I see that more as a bad sign than a good one.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Blanko on July 19, 2014, 02:15:55 PM
Well, to be fair, it is part of the Quakecon sale.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on July 19, 2014, 02:20:08 PM
Well, to be fair, it is part of the Quakecon sale.

Yeah, but Steam normally gimps the newer game sales. i.e. during the Steam Summer Sale, just released games normally get a 5 or 10% off. I'll wait for Saddam to tweet about the end game and I'll contemplate playing it.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 19, 2014, 03:07:22 PM
Your only option is to play TESO.

You know, for a game you complain so much about, you sure do like it a lot.

I do indeed like it.  It's definitely flawed, but I wouldn't still be playing it if I wasn't enjoying it.  As for the endgame, I've heard that it's pretty bad and basically the signal to cancel your subscription, but I'll be able to offer my own opinion once I get there myself.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on July 19, 2014, 10:19:54 PM
I've played a little bit. I created a master race Dunmer master class Sorcerer. I haven't done much apart from run around Morrowind after finishing the obligatory annoying starter dungeon. First impressions: it looks great for an MMO. Combat feels like a floatier version of Skyrim's (so Oblivion's combat system, basically), which is understandable. It requires more active participation than most other MMOs, at least. If I were to play with a good group of people, I think I could enjoy this game. It may help that I've never really seriously played an MMO apart from EVE, so I'm not weary of all the genre's tropes.

Collect 50 bear asses to level, end game consists of instanced raids, trinity class system are some of the big tropes. No idea if they're present in TESO.

EVE, arguably the only MMO that requires you to think.

Even WoW requires you to think at certain levels of play, you elitist.

Your only option is to play TESO.

You know, for a game you complain so much about, you sure do like it a lot.

I do indeed like it.  It's definitely flawed, but I wouldn't still be playing it if I wasn't enjoying it.  As for the endgame, I've heard that it's pretty bad and basically the signal to cancel your subscription, but I'll be able to offer my own opinion once I get there myself.

Most MMO's have utter shit end game for the first 6 months or so.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on July 19, 2014, 11:38:18 PM
Even WoW requires you to think at certain levels of play, you elitist.

Don't confuse boss memorization with thinking. Furthermore, all of WoW is a big gear fest. Whoever has better stuff wins a battle, with strategy and actual gameplay style having little to no impact on the outcome. The classes are so terribly balanced that "better gear" is the only good way to determine a winner, anyway.

Whereas in EVE, a level one trial character in a Catalyst can fuck up a guy in a Rifter who has been leveling for 5 years. Level and gear only augment a player, not define them.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on July 20, 2014, 12:23:44 AM
You're not wrong, but you're not quite right either. Skill makes a pretty big difference in PvP and higher raid tiers. Having the best gear in the game might mean you can stomp people and encounters below you, but things on your level certainly take skill to complete. The game is more skill based now than it has ever been before. In any case, it certainly takes some thought. And WoW requires less thought than other MMO's I've played, which is why I used it as an example.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on July 20, 2014, 12:25:00 AM
[redguard fanboyism]

What about the candle stick? What the hell is that for?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on July 20, 2014, 12:51:35 AM
[redguard fanboyism]

What about the candle stick? What the hell is that for?

That's your health.

I just laughed out loud. Thanks for that, Saddam.

But, really... what is it?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 20, 2014, 08:38:07 PM
It's a visual cue.  It's a bit silly, but it's not ridiculous enough to warrant this kind of fake incredulity.

Anyway, I demand big long essays from Alexandyr and beardo discussing TESO.

<Saddam> beardo: Discuss TESO
<beardo> There is nothing to discuss
<Saddam> beardo: What is that supposed to mean?
<Saddam> It's a game, you're playing it
<Saddam> Surely you have opinions
<beardo> I means I have nothing to say about it
<Saddam> How could you possibly have nothing to say about it?
<Saddam> Is it just that unremarkable?
<Saddam> Neither great nor terrible?
<beardo> I punch nix-hounds
<beardo> ther
<pizaaplanet> beerdo
<beardo> and there
<Saddam> But are you enjoying it?
<beardo> It's better than Dark Souls.
<beardo> Ha ha ha ha
<pizaaplanet> Well, that goes without saying
<pizaaplanet> Dark Souls is terrible
<beardo> It is.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Snupes on July 23, 2014, 12:01:18 AM
My Morrowind experience thus far:

Start out. Have fun. Die from a little worm because 1 out of 100 hits connect.

Run from a thousand worms. Spend infinity hours reading and talking to people. Can't fight anything because 1 out of 100 hits connect.

Get bow. 1 out of 7-10 hits connects! Kill a few things, get murdered by everything else.

Go to sleep, assassin attack in the middle of the night. Run out of house. Sleep at someone else's place and go back to fight, running and repeating when I can't kill him. Repeat this about 57 times. Still not dead. Used up all 150-something arrows.

hay guise this gaem is best
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on July 23, 2014, 12:11:08 AM
My Morrowind experience thus far:

Start out. Have fun. Die from a little worm because 1 out of 100 hits connect.

Run from a thousand worms. Spend infinity hours reading and talking to people. Can't fight anything because 1 out of 100 hits connect.

Get bow. 1 out of 7-10 hits connects! Kill a few things, get murdered by everything else.

Go to sleep, assassin attack in the middle of the night. Run out of house. Sleep at someone else's place and go back to fight, running and repeating when I can't kill him. Repeat this about 57 times. Still not dead. Used up all 150-something arrows.

hay guise this gaem is best

Whiff mechanics in Morrowind are one of my biggest criticisms of the game. Once your skill level with a certain weapon is about 50 you wont miss nearly as often, but connecting on screen and missing because of dice rolls is still a stupid concept for a game like Morrowind.

Since it is your first playthrough: Have you tried lowering the difficulty? That helps a lot, but it makes the game feel like easymode at certain parts. Although, easymode for Morrowind is pretty much hardmode in Oblivion.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on July 23, 2014, 12:44:40 AM
My Morrowind experience thus far:

Start out. Have fun. Die from a little worm because 1 out of 100 hits connect.

Run from a thousand worms. Spend infinity hours reading and talking to people. Can't fight anything because 1 out of 100 hits connect.

Get bow. 1 out of 7-10 hits connects! Kill a few things, get murdered by everything else.

Go to sleep, assassin attack in the middle of the night. Run out of house. Sleep at someone else's place and go back to fight, running and repeating when I can't kill him. Repeat this about 57 times. Still not dead. Used up all 150-something arrows.

hay guise this gaem is best

You're doing something wrong. I suspect you're either trying to fight with 0 fatigue or using a weapon that you haven't chosen as a major skill.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Snupes on July 23, 2014, 12:47:41 AM
Once your skill level with a certain weapon is about 50 you wont miss nearly as often, but connecting on screen and missing because of dice rolls is still a stupid concept for a game like Morrowind.

Since it is your first playthrough: Have you tried lowering the difficulty? That helps a lot, but it makes the game feel like easymode at certain parts. Although, easymode for Morrowind is pretty much hardmode in Oblivion.

My bow skill is 50. :L

Also, my gamer pride will not let me lower the difficulty. I cannot.


You're doing something wrong. I suspect you're either trying to fight with 0 fatigue or using a weapon that you haven't chosen as a major skill.

The former happens occasionally, but I am indeed using a weapon I have chosen as a major skill—though it would've been nice to have been warned that using non-major-skill weapons would result in a .0005% chance of hits connecting, as I planned to use a dagger on the side.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on July 23, 2014, 12:56:13 AM
Once your skill level with a certain weapon is about 50 you wont miss nearly as often, but connecting on screen and missing because of dice rolls is still a stupid concept for a game like Morrowind.

Since it is your first playthrough: Have you tried lowering the difficulty? That helps a lot, but it makes the game feel like easymode at certain parts. Although, easymode for Morrowind is pretty much hardmode in Oblivion.

My bow skill is 50. :L

Also, my gamer pride will not let me lower the difficulty. I cannot.


You're doing something wrong. I suspect you're either trying to fight with 0 fatigue or using a weapon that you haven't chosen as a major skill.

The former happens occasionally, but I am indeed using a weapon I have chosen as a major skill—though it would've been nice to have been warned that using non-major-skill weapons would result in a .0005% chance of hits connecting, as I planned to use a dagger on the side.

You can still use a dagger, provided you made it one of your primary/secondary skills. You might need to skill it up a bit by using it.


PS: Did you get my message on Nintendo Network?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 23, 2014, 01:53:42 AM
<Snupes> Fuck
<Snupes> I think I'm just going to restart the damn game as a mage.
<Saddam> There are also cats and monkeys
<Saddam> Being a mage is tough
<Saddam> Wait, Snupes
<Blanko> Snupes: Mage isn't any easier
<Saddam> Magicka doesn't repawn
<Blanko> You just need to optimize your build better
<Saddam> And most spells fail
<Snupes> Blanko: You just need to go fuck yourself
<Snupes> :^)
<Saddam> Try a melee build
<Snupes> By that do you mean at the start of the game?
<Blanko> Yeah
<Snupes> Fuck that shit
<Blanko> Start with 85 agility
<Snupes> I should not have to pre-plan that shit before I know anything about the game
<Snupes> Had I known not minmaxing would literally neuter my ability to fucking do anything, things might be different
<Blanko> ok
<Blanko> or you could just use your shitty build
<Blanko> It's up to you
<Snupes> The wonderful world of Morrowind, where, if you screw up a build, your choices come down to "don't enjoy the game" or "replay 5 hours of tedium to make a good build"
<Blanko> 5 hours
<Blanko> How much progress have you made
<Snupes> I don't know, I've done a bunch of quests by now.
<Snupes> Not much on the main story because lol main story in an Elder Scrolls game
<Blanko> You can speedrun them in half an hour
<Blanko> gogogogo
<Snupes> nononono
<beardo> Niggers
<Snupes> I assure you I would not manage them in half an hour

...

<Blanko> Snupes: Do you hold the attack key until the bow is fully drawn before releasing, or do you just click it
<Snupes> Fully drawn
<Foxbox> I hold the attack key for three full minutes
<Crudblud> Foxbox knows the secrets to Morrowind success
<Snupes> Also I just jumped and am now stuck in a piece of wood that was on the ground
<Snupes> fml
<Foxbox> lol I got stuck on a tree
<Parsifal> I feel like I'm missing something obvious
<Crudblud> Morrowind, the greatest game ever
<Foxbox> I have murdered a few people
<Blanko> Snupes: ok
<Blanko> keep doing that~
<Snupes> Why was this game specifically designed to not work for me
<Blanko> Ready to give up?
<Snupes> Yes
<Blanko> You tried so hard
<Blanko> And got so far
<Blanko> In the end
<Snupes> No
<Blanko> It doesn't even matter
<Snupes> http://i.imgur.com/nmMuKhL.png
<Snupes> Welcome to the life of Snupes
<Snupes> My new permanent home
<Parsifal> Blanko: What
<Foxbox> Sad
<Parsifal> I walked up to the leader of the Guild of Mages in Balmora
<Parsifal> She was like "you may be ready for advancement"
<Parsifal> And then suddenly I was an Apprentice
<Parsifal> But then she said I was ready for advancement again immediately, and now I'm a Journeyman
<Crudblud> Snupes: This wouldn't be happening if you were a professional skateboardist like me
<Snupes> I wish I could have your swag
<Snupes> Nobody in this fucking world trusts me enough to talk about Dwemer Artifacts
<Blanko> Parsifal: Climbing up the ranks
<Blanko> Like a boss
<Blanko> They saw what you did to Ra'Virr and decided not to fuck with you
<Snupes> Okay, I can't do this anymore

tl;dr: Parsifal is pimptastic at this game.  Snupes sucks and eventually ragequit.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on July 23, 2014, 02:00:36 AM
You don't need to minmax. You don't even need to plan your build that carefully. You just need to realize the importance of fatigue and not be an idiot.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Snupes on July 23, 2014, 02:37:19 AM
You don't need to minmax. You don't even need to plan your build that carefully. You just need to realize the importance of fatigue and not be an idiot.

You and Blanko seem to have quite opposite advice for me. Also, how well I take care of my fatigue has not much improved my experience, and it's a pain in the ass to have to walk at -40 mph to keep my fatigue low.

Also fuck you
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on July 23, 2014, 02:49:20 AM
I already know that Morrowind is an awful game and I've not even played it.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on July 23, 2014, 02:52:55 AM
You don't need to minmax. You don't even need to plan your build that carefully. You just need to realize the importance of fatigue and not be an idiot.

You and Blanko seem to have quite opposite advice for me. Also, how well I take care of my fatigue has not much improved my experience, and it's a pain in the ass to have to walk at -40 mph to keep my fatigue low.

Also fuck you

Blanko doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. ESO was probably his first Elder Scrolls game. You don't need to walk everywhere, just rest a bit if you know you're about to fight something serious like a tiny kwama forager, or have some restore fatigue potions. If you're fighting while rested and using a weapon that you're reasonably skilled with you should be connecting at least half of your attacks. Otherwise, you might have very low agility or your opponent might have very high agility.

I already know that Morrowind is an awful game and I've not even played it.

You can go ahead and just dodge and roll your way right out of this thread.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on July 23, 2014, 03:06:20 AM
Just play WoW. You don't even need to think about skills or talents.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on July 23, 2014, 03:22:38 AM
Regardless of all the mixed info, Morrowind is a much harder game than Oblivion or Skyrim but it is a lot less mindless because of it. Especially when you're starting out. You might want to research some things online now that you've experienced it firsthand.

Sometimes Morrowind's harsh learning curve gets in the way of having fun, which is why the difficulty slider is there. Use it. Increase the difficulty slowly as you progress.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Blanko on July 23, 2014, 08:06:26 AM
You don't need to minmax. You don't even need to plan your build that carefully. You just need to realize the importance of fatigue and not be an idiot.

I'm not saying she needs to minmax, I'm just saying it makes the game fucking easy.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on July 23, 2014, 08:10:25 AM
You don't need to minmax. You don't even need to plan your build that carefully. You just need to realize the importance of fatigue and not be an idiot.

I'm not saying she needs to minmax, I'm just saying it makes the game fucking easy.

The wisdom of Blanko.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on July 23, 2014, 08:55:56 AM
I realized something while browsing the ESO forums. The average MMO player is both 12 years old and utterly retarded. "Dwemer should be a playable race" retarded. Zenimax Online has drawn thousands of these cretins to the ES series, and they're spewing all of their terrible opinions right into the developer's faces. I'm not saying that previously every ES fan was a gentlemanly fedora capped scholar, but I really think the group's average age and intelligence has dropped. This isn't really a problem right now, but what if these people stick around for the next actual ES game? More stupid opinions than ever before will be shouted at Bethesda Game Studios, and Todd Howard is not a strong man. He won't be able to resist the sweet temptation of the money of these kid's parents.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Vindictus on July 23, 2014, 09:12:01 AM
Hahaha. General forums on MMO's are the best.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 23, 2014, 01:31:59 PM
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/94597/would-you-be-willing-to-break-lore

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/121283/which-race-would-you-like-to-see-on-teso-and-why

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/120423/i-implore-you-let-me-change-my-race

The retarded tension.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on July 23, 2014, 01:41:54 PM
Classic thread:

Quote
Is there any special places you take your in game date? Please explain the location.

Quote
Coldharbour - Halls of Torment.

Have fun!
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on July 23, 2014, 06:52:44 PM
*chat copypasta*

This just confirms that girls are terrible at video games.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Parsifal on July 23, 2014, 09:49:42 PM
I haven't found anything in Morrowind particularly difficult. Challenging, yes, but not difficult. The learning curve is what keeps things interesting, and I've been playing the whole thing on default difficulty.

It may be worth noting that this is my first time playing an Elder Scrolls game.

I've recently found that the most effective way to make money is to kill shopkeepers and loot their wares, which has made me consider leaving the Mages Guild and joining the Thieves Guild, or maybe even the Dark Brotherhood. The Mages Guild has recently given me two assignments involving potential assassination, one of which stands to be very profitable, so we'll see.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on July 23, 2014, 10:08:25 PM
The Dark Brotherhood isn't joinable. Instead, there is the much cooler Morag Tong.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Snupes on July 23, 2014, 10:39:33 PM
*chat copypasta*

This just confirms that girls are terrible at video games.

I am a magnificent gamer and will destroy you


It may be worth noting that this is my first time playing an Elder Scrolls game.

I've a feeling this is at least part of my problem. I've played Oblivion and many, many hours of Skyrim, and I play Morrowind essentially the same way I play those. Had I started with Morrowind, I feel like I would have had a much better experience.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 23, 2014, 11:10:05 PM
You don't need to leave guilds to join other ones.  But then again, immersion, roleplaying, lore.

If you ever feel like trying again, I suggest going with a combat-oriented class.  At least stamina replenishes itself.  Magicka and arrows don't.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on July 23, 2014, 11:20:22 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/4JJLsVp.jpg)
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on July 23, 2014, 11:25:22 PM
I looked up whether Morrowind has voice acting or not and wikipedia says it has a "fair bit." Can anyone help me quantify what a "fair bit" is?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on July 23, 2014, 11:28:49 PM
I looked up whether Morrowind has voice acting or not and wikipedia says it has a "fair bit." Can anyone help me quantify what a "fair bit" is?

Sometimes when you walk next to people they will say stuff like "Outlander......", "Greetings", "Welcome", etc.

All the character dialogue outside of those interactions is text-based.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on July 23, 2014, 11:29:46 PM
Sometimes when you walk next to people they will say stuff like "Outlander......", "Greetings", "Welcome", etc.

All the character dialogue outside of those interactions is text.

thinking about getting it but oh god thats awful I'm definitely even more not playing morrowind ever
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on July 23, 2014, 11:31:23 PM
Sometimes when you walk next to people they will say stuff like "Outlander......", "Greetings", "Welcome", etc.

All the character dialogue outside of those interactions is text.

thinking about getting it but oh god thats awful I'm definitely even more not playing morrowind ever

Well then you're a fucking moran because Morrowind is the best game ever made.

Play it on xbawks for true cool points, my friend.

play it on xbawks
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on July 24, 2014, 12:48:18 AM
I looked up whether Morrowind has voice acting or not and wikipedia says it has a "fair bit." Can anyone help me quantify what a "fair bit" is?

Sometimes when you walk next to people they will say stuff like "Outlander......", "Greetings", "Welcome", etc.

All the character dialogue outside of those interactions is text-based.

Certain important characters are more thoroughly voice acted, like a certain member of House Dagoth and Azura. The lack of voice acting otherwise allows for more extensive dialogue, since the developers don't need to worry about paying extra to voice each word. Also, the quality of the writing suspiciously dropped greatly with the addition of full voice acting. Lastly, the voice acting that is present is actually some of the best in the series. There's a reason people have been whining about bringing back Jeff Baker's Dunmer voice ever since Oblivion's release. Listen for yourself:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvkjmnRRcG4

It's genuinely unnerving to hear an Ordinator growl something like "let's not make this official, outlander... move along."
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on July 24, 2014, 12:56:22 AM
Jeff Baker could voice everyone in the next real Elder Scrolls game and I wouldn't mind.

I'm also a fan of Wes Johnson's derpy Imperial voice in Oblivion.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 24, 2014, 01:50:24 PM
There's more to measuring good writing than the quality of the prose itself.  The blocks of text that function as dialogue in Morrowind may well display beautiful turns of phrase, but the fact remains that they're still blocks of text rather than normal dialogue, which is a huge flaw in and of itself.  And I don't agree that they're all that well-written, anyway.  They're not terrible, but they're almost all written in the same curt, clipped, businesslike manner, with very little room left over for any character or personality.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on July 24, 2014, 02:17:34 PM
There's more to measuring good writing than the quality of the prose itself.  The blocks of text that function as dialogue in Morrowind may well display beautiful turns of phrase, but the fact remains that they're still blocks of text rather than normal dialogue, which is a huge flaw in and of itself.  And I don't agree that they're all that well-written, anyway.  They're not terrible, but they're almost all written in the same curt, clipped, businesslike manner, with very little room left over for any character or personality.

Do you actually listen to all of the voiced dialogue in Oblivion or Skyrim, or do you just read ahead and skip to the next line when you're done?

I was mostly talking about the dialogue that is important to the plot. Sure, generic NPCs give a lot of the same information and do so in a weird, overly expository way, but I don't mind. I like the flavorful information.

Anyway, the biggest and flashiest example of the superiority of Morrowind's writing over Oblivion's is the final speech of each game's antagonist.

Here is Mankar Camoran's cheesy monologue. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GsqEfSOJOU) Notice that the phrase "hero of destiny" is used without a trace of irony, and that the voice actor sounds like a right ponce. He is going to rebuild the world, to make it a better place by any means possible. You cannot possibly stop him. His plan is already set in motion. Wow, I've never heard that before. Oh wait, yes I have, in everything ever.

Compare to this, the conversation you have with Dagoth Ur before he kills you over and over. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pt6O-COePs) Firstly, his voice is actually intimidating. Secondly, he actually converses with you. Well, first he gives you the option to just "skip the speeches" and get right to business. He treats you as an equal, recognizing the fact that you may indeed be Lord Neravar incarnate. He asks you questions, and offers to answer questions of yours. It feels personal. You aren't just another hero of destiny rolling your eyes at another evil mastermind monologue.

As for Skyrim, the antagonist is a giant dragon with red eyes who eats souls. He may as well have been commanding Nazi legions.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 25, 2014, 02:51:59 AM
Did you just insult the magnificent Terence Stamp?  How very dare you!

Anyway, yes, of course Dagoth Ur is a far better villain than Mankar Camoran.  And I agree that for the most part, Oblivion was a very ill-advised step backwards into generic high fantasy cliché, so I won't spend much time defending it.  But, like I said (although I should have spent more time explaining it, as nobody here is a mind reader [or are they?]), writing encompasses more than putting one word in front of the other in a way that sounds good.  There's also the basic structuring of the plot and how it's presented to the player, and there Morrowind struggles.

Look at the beginnings of these games, for example.  In Morrowind, the story begins with the Emperor using his influence to have you, a prisoner transported to Vvardenfell and released.  This sounds promising, he must have big plans for you!  Or maybe not.  Apparently it's just to offer you a job.  It's not a very good job, either; you're basically just Caius's gofer.  And that's it, at least for the first solid chunk of the main quest.  It's not until you're several quests in that they finally bother to tell you what's so important about all this and what it has to do with you.  Until then, there are no stakes.  There is no motivation.  There is no reason for you to give a fuck about any of the inhabitants of this island.  Gods know they don't give one about you.

We'll skip over Oblivion because that game begins almost as badly as it ends.  Skyrim, however, handles it better than both of them.  The introduction at Helgen sets the scene nicely, establishing both the threat that the dragons pose and how the civil war is ripping the land apart.  Your involvement in the events that follow feels natural rather than forced - you're one of the few survivors of a dragon attack, so it makes sense that you'd be recruited in the aftermath to try and deal with the threat.  And your identity as the chosen one is revealed after you kill your first dragon, by way of a wondrous display of magic that grants you amazing powers.  That's how to start a game off right.  Show rather than tell.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on July 25, 2014, 03:11:39 AM
Right, Morrowind doesn't immediately shove you head first into another universe-threatening disaster as the only true hero of destiny who can put an end to the chaos. It's a tad more subtle. The sense of urgency in Skyrim is uncomfortable for any roleplayer who doesn't immediately want to begin the MQ.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Snupes on July 25, 2014, 03:24:42 AM
Right, Morrowind doesn't immediately shove you head first into another universe-threatening disaster as the only true hero of destiny who can put an end to the chaos. It's a tad more subtle. The sense of urgency in Skyrim is uncomfortable for any roleplayer who doesn't immediately want to begin the MQ.

To be honest, though, it doesn't really even bother to try to catch your interest, either. In Morrowind, so far, I really have no interest in what's going on. The atrocious (IMO, obviously) conversation system doesn't help things because I need to read a novel whenever I talk to people. As I've said in IRC, I'm the kind of person who exhausts every conversational option with NPCs in all games and will read crap like Mass Effect's codexes and games' information logs, but in Morrowind it's just tiring. Going through weird conversation chains and keywords and the incredibly stiff, info-dump dialogue. It got to the point where I'm basically skimming dialogue and just clicking through to find quest-relevant keywords like some weird kind of needle+haystack search and then reading anything that updates my journal. I'm a very fast reader and love reading, but I really don't think the game has great dialogue. The voice acting, where existent, is much better than any other Elder Scrolls game, though.

I want so badly to like this game, it seems in theory like a game I'd love and I've heard endless praise for it, but every time I feel like I'm sort of getting into it something comes up that bothers me.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on July 25, 2014, 03:52:56 AM
Right, Morrowind doesn't immediately shove you head first into another universe-threatening disaster as the only true hero of destiny who can put an end to the chaos. It's a tad more subtle. The sense of urgency in Skyrim is uncomfortable for any roleplayer who doesn't immediately want to begin the MQ.

To be honest, though, it doesn't really even bother to try to catch your interest, either. In Morrowind, so far, I really have no interest in what's going on.

You're right. The game doesn't dangle shiny objects in front of your face to get your attention. It simply presents the world to you, and tells you that you're free to do as you wish. If that doesn't interest you, you probably won't like the game.


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The atrocious (IMO, obviously) conversation system doesn't help things because I need to read a novel whenever I talk to people. As I've said in IRC, I'm the kind of person who exhausts every conversational option with NPCs in all games and will read crap like Mass Effect's codexes and games' information logs, but in Morrowind it's just tiring. Going through weird conversation chains and keywords and the incredibly stiff, info-dump dialogue. It got to the point where I'm basically skimming dialogue and just clicking through to find quest-relevant keywords like some weird kind of needle+haystack search and then reading anything that updates my journal. I'm a very fast reader and love reading, but I really don't think the game has great dialogue. The voice acting, where existent, is much better than any other Elder Scrolls game, though.

I want so badly to like this game, it seems in theory like a game I'd love and I've heard endless praise for it, but every time I feel like I'm sort of getting into it something comes up that bothers me.

If you're asking every single NPC about directions to the nearest Fighter's Guild, to give you a little advice, latest rumors, etc. you'll certainly get tired of reading. If you're just reading the important stuff, and only engaging non-quest NPCs in conversation when you feel like it, the amount of reading is perfectly normal for an RPG.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Rushy on July 25, 2014, 04:04:58 AM
Morrowind is a 2D turn-based RPG masquerading as a 3D real-time action-adventure game.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Snupes on July 25, 2014, 04:24:21 AM
You're right. The game doesn't dangle shiny objects in front of your face to get your attention. It simply presents the world to you, and tells you that you're free to do as you wish. If that doesn't interest you, you probably won't like the game.

I feel like that's a vast embellishment of it. I love games where I can go off and do whatever I want and I generally do so. I'm not just talking about the main story, I'm talking about everything. Morrowind is a pretty interesting world, but there's really no catalyst for the desire to want to see more and, in comparison to games nowadays, there really is not all that much. Perhaps I'm spoiled by stuff like Skyrim (a game I don't even have a positive opinion of), but my adventures of traveling off the beaten paths of Morrowind so far have consisted of finding caves with mean people in them who want to kill me and finding nests and stuff. You guys seem to think I'm trying to disparage the game or something when I'm really trying to like it and understand why people froth at the mouth about it. I want to like this game, so I'm trying to have a discussion about it.


If you're asking every single NPC about directions to the nearest Fighter's Guild, to give you a little advice, latest rumors, etc. you'll certainly get tired of reading. If you're just reading the important stuff, and only engaging non-quest NPCs in conversation when you feel like it, the amount of reading is perfectly normal for an RPG.

Yeah, that I understand now. It just sucks 'cause I like talking to miscellaneous villagers in RPGs, it helps immerse me more.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on July 25, 2014, 05:34:29 AM
You're right. The game doesn't dangle shiny objects in front of your face to get your attention. It simply presents the world to you, and tells you that you're free to do as you wish. If that doesn't interest you, you probably won't like the game.

I feel like that's a vast embellishment of it. I love games where I can go off and do whatever I want and I generally do so. I'm not just talking about the main story, I'm talking about everything. Morrowind is a pretty interesting world, but there's really no catalyst for the desire to want to see more and, in comparison to games nowadays, there really is not all that much. Perhaps I'm spoiled by stuff like Skyrim (a game I don't even have a positive opinion of), but my adventures of traveling off the beaten paths of Morrowind so far have consisted of finding caves with mean people in them who want to kill me and finding nests and stuff. You guys seem to think I'm trying to disparage the game or something when I'm really trying to like it and understand why people froth at the mouth about it. I want to like this game, so I'm trying to have a discussion about it.

It's interesting that you feel spoiled by Skyrim, since it has fewer locations and less variety among them. Concerning dungeons: Skyrim has 176, which include Daedric shrines, caves, Dwemer ruins, mines, forts, and ruins. Morrowind has 224, and they include caves, ancestral tombs, daedric shrines and ruins, Dunmer strongholds, Dwemer ruins, grottos, mines, and Velothi towers.

Skyrim has 16 settlements, which range from major cities to minor cities to towns. The only variation in architecture is between the five major cities. Morrowind has 27 settlements, including Ashlander tribes, imperial towns, Dunmeri towns (Hlaalu, Redoran, or Telvanni), plantations, and the four major cities.

I could go on. Factions, weapons and armor, spell effects and enchantments, clothing, types of creatures, skills. There's more of pretty much everything in Morrowind. The claim that "there really is not all that much" compared to games nowadays is demonstrably false. I know this is definitely cheating, but include Tamriel Rebuilt in those numbers and you can quintuple everything. We may never see a mod of the same scale created for any other ES game.

Each interesting artifact in Skyrim is almost invariably both levelled and/or attached to a quest. In Morrowind, there are dozens of artifacts that you'll only find if you happen to stumble upon them, and they aren't scaled to your level.

Are you using any mods? MGSO (Morrowind Graphics and Sound Overhaul) is an excellent collection that does exactly what the name suggests. I'm very picky about my mod selection, so I'm usually wary of compilations like this, but it is assembled with great care. It's also comes with a very simple installer. Here's an album of some of shots of my setup.  (http://imgur.com/a/sjEFe)

I could froth at the mouth about Morrowind all day. I like hearing reactions from new players. Especially if they aren't enjoying it, because I like having my jeromes rumbled.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 25, 2014, 06:40:33 PM
Right, Morrowind doesn't immediately shove you head first into another universe-threatening disaster as the only true hero of destiny who can put an end to the chaos. It's a tad more subtle. The sense of urgency in Skyrim is uncomfortable for any roleplayer who doesn't immediately want to begin the MQ.

But that's exactly what it does!  That's what all Elder Scrolls games do!  You're "the only true hero of destiny who can put an end to the chaos" from the moment the Emperor decides that you might fit the prophecy and ships you off to Vvardenfell.  The main difference when it comes to the "sense of urgency" is that in Morrowind, it's the other characters who aren't treating this super-important problem with the gravity and attention it deserves, rather than the player.  And it's far easier to maintain suspension of disbelief over the idiosyncrasies of the player character than those of the NPCs.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Blanko on July 25, 2014, 07:15:38 PM
What do you mean with "super-important problem with the gravity and attention it deserves"? What would give you, the player character, the idea that it is a super-important problem when none of the NPCs tell you that? If anything, the game goes to great lengths in explaining that they've been dealing with the issue for a long time, and it's only natural that the inhabitants who are used to the protection of the Ghostfence aren't going crazy when seemingly nothing has changed. For most of the game, you're not even dealing with the problem, you're just finding out what the problem is and whether you actually fit the bill to be getting rid of it. It's not massively urgent when the problem has been existing for a long time in the game world.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on July 25, 2014, 07:24:40 PM
Right, Morrowind doesn't immediately shove you head first into another universe-threatening disaster as the only true hero of destiny who can put an end to the chaos. It's a tad more subtle. The sense of urgency in Skyrim is uncomfortable for any roleplayer who doesn't immediately want to begin the MQ.

But that's exactly what it does!  That's what all Elder Scrolls games do!  You're "the only true hero of destiny who can put an end to the chaos" from the moment the Emperor decides that you might fit the prophecy and ships you off to Vvardenfell.

Yes, you're the hero in every game. Good observation. However, in Morrowings, you aren't beaten over the head with that fact right from the beginning. One of the first things you do in Skyrim's main quest is kill a dragon. If you don't get sidetracked at all, you'll be level 2 or 3 by this point. When you kill the dragon. It's as if the game is afraid you'll lose interest if you don't immediately feel muscular and powerful, so it begins with a pat on the back before it lovingly wipes the drool from your chin and gently nudges you toward the next quest marker.

Quote
The main difference when it comes to the "sense of urgency" is that in Morrowind, it's the other characters who aren't treating this super-important problem with the gravity and attention it deserves, rather than the player.  And it's far easier to maintain suspension of disbelief over the idiosyncrasies of the player character than those of the NPCs.

Something tells me you haven't played very far into the main quest. Or spoken with an NPC. Everybody is afraid of the Blight and the spread of Red Mountain's influence. The Buoyant Armigers, the Temple's most powerful military order, are stationed at Ghostgate just to prevent the spread of anything from Red Mountain.

Still, the extent of Dagoth Ur's plans aren't immediately obvious. That's one of the major differences between the two stories. You don't start out as a hero in Morrowind, and the villian isn't as obnoxiously villianous. You don't discover that you're the Neravarine until fairly late in the MQ, and it actually feels like a momentous discovery. It feels like something truly earned. Killing a level-scaled (epic dragon pun) dragon in the first half of Act I does not.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 26, 2014, 04:53:09 AM
When I talk about a missing sense of urgency, I'm basically referring to Caius, and by extension, his superiors in Cyrodiil.  It's obviously very important for them to see the prophecy fulfilled and stop Dagoth-Ur, or else the Emperor wouldn't be resorting to such measures as pardoning a convict and offering him a position in his elite spy agency.  But this simply doesn't jibe with how little they seem to care about you once you're off the boat.  Things like casually asking you to join the Blades and shrugging it off if you decline, not bothering to explain why you're so important, and immediately just assigning you pointless missions gathering information that they clearly already have - or else why would you even be here?

I understand what you're saying about subtlety, and I don't think that the game would have been improved if everyone was fawning over you right from the beginning like in Oblivion.  Instead, what they should have done was start it out like Daggerfall, with you already being a trusted agent of the Empire, sent to Vvardenfell to investigate rumors of the Sixth House and mysterious prophecies.  There, you meet your contact, Caius, who points you in the direction of people he's identified that might have information on these topics, and so on.  This way, you're the one who's putting the pieces together and figuring out what needs to be done, rather than it all having been decided ahead of time and behind your back by the Empire, which is now using you as a pawn while telling you as little as possible.

A change like that would have made for a more interesting draw into the story.  It doesn't need a juvenile power fantasy, as you apparently interpreted from my defense of Skyrim, but a sense of agency, a feeling that you yourself are an active character who is driving the plot forward.  Maybe this bugs me more than it does most people, but to put it simply, I don't like RPGs where your role extends to little more than being the toady of some other character or institution.  That's probably why I felt instinctively outraged when I heard about how this Trahearne fellow, even though I've never played GW2 and almost certainly never will.  And before anyone says it, yes, I know Caius eventually fucks off back to Cyrodiil, and it looks like the main quest gets a lot better from then on.  (No such luck with Oblivion. :()  I'm specifically criticizing the beginning, not the whole thing.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on July 26, 2014, 05:45:21 AM
When I talk about a missing sense of urgency, I'm basically referring to Caius, and by extension, his superiors in Cyrodiil.  It's obviously very important for them to see the prophecy fulfilled and stop Dagoth-Ur, or else the Emperor wouldn't be resorting to such measures as pardoning a convict and offering him a position in his elite spy agency.  But this simply doesn't jibe with how little they seem to care about you once you're off the boat.  Things like casually asking you to join the Blades and shrugging it off if you decline, not bothering to explain why you're so important, and immediately just assigning you pointless missions gathering information that they clearly already have - or else why would you even be here?

You're given a coded message to deliver to an agent of the Emperor. That's about as serious as the game can be while still allowing you freedom of choice. Would you rather an armed escort deliver you to Caius directly? He doesn't shrug it off if you refuse to follow his orders. He actually becomes quite hostile (verbally). He doesn't explain anything to you initially because it isn't certain whether or not you can actually fulfill the Neravarine prophecy, and he doesn't have all the answers anyway.

The Empire is essentially doing what it can to prepare you to fulfill the Prophecy. This is why the first few missions involve gathering information about the Neravarine and the Sixth House. Caius can't just tell you himself, because he does not have the detailed information that the informants you soon meet provide through their notes and reading recommendations. That's why you deliver the notes to Caius. You would probably have a better understanding of this if you actually played the game instead of just reading about it.

Quote
I understand what you're saying about subtlety, and I don't think that the game would have been improved if everyone was fawning over you right from the beginning like in Oblivion.  Instead, what they should have done was start it out like Daggerfall, with you already being a trusted agent of the Empire, sent to Vvardenfell to investigate rumors of the Sixth House and mysterious prophecies.
 

You aren't really an Imperial agent in Daggerfall, just a good friend of the Emperor. Your character would never have an official affiliation with any political group before the game has even begun. That's entirely contrary to the spirit of the games.

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There, you meet your contact, Caius, who points you in the direction of people he's identified that might have information on these topics, and so on.  This way, you're the one who's putting the pieces together and figuring out what needs to be done, rather than it all having been decided ahead of time and behind your back by the Empire, which is now using you as a pawn while telling you as little as possible.

That's a really good idea. The first quest could have been something like visiting an informant, named, say, Hasphat Antabolis, to gather information about the Sixth House. The next quest could have you visit another informant, maybe an Orc this time, to receive notes further explaining the Neravarine Prophecy. Perhaps the next quest could involve visiting informants from a different city. Let's say Vivec. There could be three of them this time. Why didn't they do this?

Seriously, have you played this game?

A change like that would have made for a more interesting draw into the story.

(http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=286;type=avatar)
mfw

Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Blanko on July 26, 2014, 10:59:03 AM
It's obviously very important for them to see the prophecy fulfilled and stop Dagoth-Ur, or else the Emperor wouldn't be resorting to such measures as pardoning a convict and offering him a position in his elite spy agency.  But this simply doesn't jibe with how little they seem to care about you once you're off the boat.

That's because they don't care. Very few people actually give a fuck about the prophecy of the Nerevarine, which is why you have to go around asking specific people about it. The official Empire stance is likely to be "just let the Tribunal do what they're doing", and given that the Nerevarine Cult is all about dismissing the Tribunal, I doubt they had the conscious choice in messing with it.

This is pretty much conjecture on my part, but I think Vivec was responsible in getting the Nerevarine pardoned and shipped off to Vvardenfell. He pretty much alone had a good idea of what Dagoth Ur was planning on doing, while the Tribunal was set on just passively protecting the Ghostfence. Now, here's one of the things I really like about Morrowind: you never do anything as the Nerevarine that another person couldn't have done as well. Contrast to Skyrim where you have the obvious superhero ability in dragon shouting. In fact, you never do anything that straight-up proves you're the Nerevarine, as all you ever do is get recognized as the Nerevarine, first by the Ashlanders and then by the Houses. But ultimately, being recognized would end up being good enough for Vivec's purposes, as the Nerevarine is effectively the only person Dagoth Ur would welcome in his base. Even when you go confront him at the end of the game, he shows disappointment that you're not there to join him instead, as he had expected. This makes the Nerevarine a prime candidate for putting the end to Dagoth Ur's plans, and Vivec was fully aware of that.

Conjecture aside, I don't know why you would assume something when the game is trying to tell you something else entirely. You're correctly interpreting the Imperial stance as not giving a fuck, so why are you so hellbent on thinking it's something else? Like Alexandyr put it,
Quote
Seriously, have you played this game?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on July 26, 2014, 11:24:16 AM
Really Saaddaam, stop reading about the game and just play it. I already regret posting the conversation with Dagoth Ur. If you keep saying wrong things I'll end up ruining the entire game trying to correct you. Although I would enjoy reading more of the funny wrong things you have to say, I would rather you just play the game and enjoy it. Same goes for Parsifail and Snupe Dogg, if you two are still trying. If you still don't like the game after giving it a reasonable chance you can return and I'll tell you why you were wrong.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Parsifal on July 26, 2014, 11:34:31 AM
If you still don't like the game after giving it a reasonable chance you can return and I'll tell you why you were wrong.

I already hate this game. It doesn't even have basic functionality like the ability to knock your opponent over with shells, which Mario Kart has had for decades.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 26, 2014, 05:51:06 PM
First of all, you two keep contradicting each other.  Stop tag-teaming me and start insulting each other.

Second of all, I have indeed played Morrowind for quite a while, and I do like it overall.  I'm just criticizing the beginning of the game as not being a very interesting introduction into the world and story, partially because it tells rather than shows, but mainly because the Empire has already been (to an extent) making arrangements and planning out your path from the very start, which I find to be a very undermining element in a RPG.  NO U
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Ghost of V on July 26, 2014, 06:00:50 PM
Second of all, I have indeed played Morrowind for quite a while, and I do like it overall.  I'm just criticizing the beginning of the game as not being a very interesting introduction into the world and story, partially because it tells rather than shows, but mainly because the Empire has already been (to an extent) making arrangements and planning out your path from the very start, which I find to be a very undermining element in a RPG.  NO U

Nitpicking much? Oblvion and Skyrim do the exact same thing, Oblivion moreso than any other ES game. Your character's entire path is determined by higher powers. At least Morrowind's approach is the most subtle of them. Also, how does the main storyline really impact the gameplay as a whole? Can you not find any enjoyment in the adventure because your basic path is predetermined?

Not to mention that your entire path in any game ever made is determined by the developers who made the game. Why aren't you pissed about that? Seems like the same thing to me. Maybe you should stop playing video games?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on July 27, 2014, 12:02:18 AM
First of all, you two keep contradicting each other.  Stop tag-teaming me and start insulting each other.

Second of all, I have indeed played Morrowind for quite a while, and I do like it overall.  I'm just criticizing the beginning of the game as not being a very interesting introduction into the world and story, partially because it tells rather than shows, but mainly because the Empire has already been (to an extent) making arrangements and planning out your path from the very start, which I find to be a very undermining element in a RPG.  NO U

Your criticism is what gave you away as not knowing what you're talking about. You said the game would be better if it did exactly what it already does.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Parsifal on July 27, 2014, 02:36:32 AM
Second of all, I have indeed played Morrowind for quite a while, and I do like it overall.  I'm just criticizing the beginning of the game as not being a very interesting introduction into the world and story, partially because it tells rather than shows, but mainly because the Empire has already been (to an extent) making arrangements and planning out your path from the very start, which I find to be a very undermining element in a RPG.  NO U

As someone who has never played an Elder Scrolls game before Morrowind, this is total and utter codswallop. Caius encourages you to go out and seek work. Granted, I only have experience with one of the alternatives he suggests, but I assume any other alternative would have you going out and exploring the world just as running errands for the Mages' Guild does.

If by "shows" you mean "waves in your face", then no, it doesn't. But it does encourage you to go out and see the world for yourself.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on July 27, 2014, 03:12:54 AM
Wealth beyond measure, outlander.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 27, 2014, 03:25:27 AM
Nitpicking much? Oblvion and Skyrim do the exact same thing, Oblivion moreso than any other ES game. Your character's entire path is determined by higher powers. At least Morrowind's approach is the most subtle of them. Also, how does the main storyline really impact the gameplay as a whole? Can you not find any enjoyment in the adventure because your basic path is predetermined?

Not to mention that your entire path in any game ever made is determined by the developers who made the game. Why aren't you pissed about that? Seems like the same thing to me. Maybe you should stop playing video games?

I have a feeling that you completely misunderstood my point.  I'm not talking about the actions of the player being determined, but the actions of the character itself, within the very context of the story.

Your criticism is what gave you away as not knowing what you're talking about. You said the game would be better if it did exactly what it already does.

No, I said the story would have been more interesting if they had let you approach it from the angle that you're the one who's actively investigating what's going on and trying to solve the mystery, not Caius and the Emperor doing it quietly behind the scenes.

As someone who has never played an Elder Scrolls game before Morrowind, this is total and utter codswallop. Caius encourages you to go out and seek work. Granted, I only have experience with one of the alternatives he suggests, but I assume any other alternative would have you going out and exploring the world just as running errands for the Mages' Guild does.

If by "shows" you mean "waves in your face", then no, it doesn't. But it does encourage you to go out and see the world for yourself.

I was really just referring to the main quest.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on July 27, 2014, 03:30:26 AM
No, I said the story would have been more interesting if they had let you approach it from the angle that you're the one who's actively investigating what's going on and trying to solve the mystery, not Caius and the Emperor doing it quietly behind the scenes.

Are you reading what I'm posting? That is exactly how it works. Caius simply points you towards people that are familiar with Morrowind, its culture, and its religions and superstitions. You go to these people, do a small favor for them, and then they give you information in the form of dialogue, books, and notes. Hasphat even gives you the names of a few rare books you can find to learn more. The only thing the Emperor does behind the scenes is have you released. Caius doesn't know much more than you do about the Neravarine or House Dagon after you've completed the information gathering quests.

In other words check yourself before you vehk yourself
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on July 27, 2014, 04:33:52 AM
I can now see why Saddam normally sticks to one post quips and evades entrenched arguments.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Particle Person on July 27, 2014, 05:43:11 AM
I don't hate Morrowind.  It does do a lot of things very well, and I'm still hoping that at some point way down the line I can get back to playing it.  But as far as its cult following goes, I suspect that a lot of that stems more from nostalgia and elitism than the actual merits of the game.  No, I'm not accusing anyone here of that; I just mean in general.

This is what really rotates my jeremies. There are many reasons this game has a fanatical following, and none of them are that it came out a long time ago. There are a lot of genuine reasons to prefer Morrowind over any other entry in the series, but because it's an older game detractors dismiss the zeal of its fans as nostalgia. Perhaps the only major thing that nostalgia really helps with is tolerating the vanilla graphics. I, like many people, have played the game consistently for 12 years. I've actually experienced more of its content after Oblivion and Skyrim's release than before, so I know my perception isn't distorted by nostalgia. As I've said before, it's my favorite item of entertainment media ever, and I'm not just saying that because I'm drunk. I've said it before.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Blanko on July 27, 2014, 09:57:37 AM
I played Oblivion and Skyrim to a large extent before Morrowind, and I still enjoyed Morrowind more. And I suspect it's the same story for a lot of people. I don't see how nostalgia enters into it at all.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 27, 2014, 07:57:22 PM
This is what really rotates my jeremies. There are many reasons this game has a fanatical following, and none of them are that it came out a long time ago. There are a lot of genuine reasons to prefer Morrowind over any other entry in the series, but because it's an older game detractors dismiss the zeal of its fans as nostalgia. Perhaps the only major thing that nostalgia really helps with is tolerating the vanilla graphics. I, like many people, have played the game consistently for 12 years. I've actually experienced more of its content after Oblivion and Skyrim's release than before, so I know my perception isn't distorted by nostalgia. As I've said before, it's my favorite item of entertainment media ever, and I'm not just saying that because I'm drunk. I've said it before.

You're not going to concede an inch in this discussion, are you?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on July 27, 2014, 07:59:40 PM
I don't see why you can't just admit that Morrowind has literally 0 flaws and is the best thing since sliced wickwheat bread.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on July 27, 2014, 08:05:11 PM
0 flaws
lol'd
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 27, 2014, 08:18:53 PM
Can we talk about TESO now?

My Nord is in the Rift, fighting Reachmen.  Where are you guys at?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on July 28, 2014, 07:26:50 AM
I went to Skyrim. Everything was suddenly 30 levels higher than me. Undeterred, I snuck past everything and even managed to complete a quest without killing anything. I thought the exp gains would be wicked, but they were not. Although the areas are large, they still must be traversed in a very specific order, which really hurts the sense of exploration.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on July 28, 2014, 09:54:32 AM
This game will punish exploration severely. It fails as an Elder Scrolls game.







But I still like it. :(
The best thing about it is that it's not ridden with bugs and gliches, which is fucking amazing for an Elder Scrolls game.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on July 28, 2014, 10:18:40 AM
If the "best thing" about a game is the fact that it works as intended, is it really a good game?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on July 28, 2014, 12:19:25 PM
I passed a Hand of Almalexia who piped up and delivered to me this brilliant line:

"By the Saints, watch duty is as boring as paperwork."

This line might be acceptable for a lowly city guard, but Her Hands are said to be among the most powerful mortal warriors in Tamriel. They're supposed to be somber religious warriors who have devoted their entire adult lives to Almalexia's protection. Zenimax does not have an affinity for the details like this that are necessary for an enjoyable depiction of Tamriel.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on July 28, 2014, 01:01:18 PM
If the "best thing" about a game is the fact that it works as intended, is it really a good game?
It was an exaggeration.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on July 28, 2014, 01:02:48 PM
What is the best thing about the game, then?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on July 28, 2014, 02:22:18 PM
You can sprint while strafing.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on July 28, 2014, 02:35:30 PM
Epic. Simply epic. Now let's talk about how the Aldmeri Dominion wasn't formed until 300 years after this game takes place, or about how Cyrodiil is once again a boring English countryside rather than a jungle, even though the game takes place before Tiber Septim CHIMMed it up. Although, ZO doesn't even acknowledge that piece of lore. They simply chalked up hundreds of years of written history recorded by dozens of scholars describing Cyrodiil as a jungle to a "transcription error".
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on July 28, 2014, 02:38:07 PM
Yes.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost of V on July 28, 2014, 03:32:26 PM
I went to Skyrim. Everything was suddenly 30 levels higher than me. Undeterred, I snuck past everything and even managed to complete a quest without killing anything. I thought the exp gains would be wicked, but they were not. Although the areas are large, they still must be traversed in a very specific order, which really hurts the sense of exploration.

You do know that you're playing an MMO, right?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on July 28, 2014, 03:34:24 PM
I went to Skyrim. Everything was suddenly 30 levels higher than me. Undeterred, I snuck past everything and even managed to complete a quest without killing anything. I thought the exp gains would be wicked, but they were not. Although the areas are large, they still must be traversed in a very specific order, which really hurts the sense of exploration.

You do know that you're playing an MMO, right?

Ah, this again. You do know that not all MMOs adhere to this formula, right?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Blanko on July 28, 2014, 03:34:37 PM
I went to Skyrim. Everything was suddenly 30 levels higher than me. Undeterred, I snuck past everything and even managed to complete a quest without killing anything. I thought the exp gains would be wicked, but they were not. Although the areas are large, they still must be traversed in a very specific order, which really hurts the sense of exploration.

You do know that you're playing an MMO, right?

A theme park MMO, you mean. Sandbox MMOs exist.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 28, 2014, 04:32:47 PM
I passed a Hand of Almalexia who piped up and delivered to me this brilliant line:

"By the Saints, watch duty is as boring as paperwork."

This line might be acceptable for a lowly city guard, but Her Hands are said to be among the most powerful mortal warriors in Tamriel. They're supposed to be somber religious warriors who have devoted their entire adult lives to Almalexia's protection.

And therefore, they are not allowed to talk.

Epic. Simply epic. Now let's talk about how the Aldmeri Dominion wasn't formed until 300 years after this game takes place

How do you know that?  Are you going by this (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Pocket_Guide_to_the_Empire,_1st_Edition/Aldmeri_Dominion) piece of scholarly wisdom, which also literally calls the Altmer inbred baby-killers and makes them out to be monsters?  A reliable source, to be sure.

Quote
or about how Cyrodiil is once again a boring English countryside rather than a jungle, even though the game takes place before Tiber Septim CHIMMed it up. Although, ZO doesn't even acknowledge that piece of lore. They simply chalked up hundreds of years of written history recorded by dozens of scholars describing Cyrodiil as a jungle to a "transcription error".

The discrepancy is there, but I think Bethesda deserves the blame for this one, not ZeniMax.  They should have bitten the bullet and admitted they were retconning Cyrodiil a long time ago, rather than dragging it out with the CHIM thing.  They knew this game was coming, and they knew that Cyrodiil wasn't going to have any wacky jungle design in it.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost of V on July 28, 2014, 04:52:06 PM
I went to Skyrim. Everything was suddenly 30 levels higher than me. Undeterred, I snuck past everything and even managed to complete a quest without killing anything. I thought the exp gains would be wicked, but they were not. Although the areas are large, they still must be traversed in a very specific order, which really hurts the sense of exploration.

You do know that you're playing an MMO, right?

Ah, this again. You do know that not all MMOs adhere to this formula, right?

Nawwww. You're lying.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on July 28, 2014, 05:00:03 PM
They're not allowed to talk like they're teenagers earning minimum wage. It just doesn't make sense.

Yes, the PGE. It's a respected source of in-game information on a bunch of subjects. I don't think they gave an incorrect date to slander the good Altmer name.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 28, 2014, 05:27:16 PM
They're not allowed to talk like they're teenagers earning minimum wage. It just doesn't make sense.

Maybe not.  But you're not their boss, you're just some outlander.  Maybe they don't care what you think of their professionalism.

Quote
Yes, the PGE. It's a respected source of in-game information on a bunch of subjects. I don't think they gave an incorrect date to slander the good Altmer name.

Or they could just be wrong, seeing how they were wrong about so many other things.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on July 28, 2014, 06:08:08 PM
You know what I mean. One of Almalexia's Hands is not going to grumble about guard duty. They know that their duty is quite literally sacred, and they would never wish to reflect so poorly upon the Lady of Mercy. It's just dumb, ESO is dumb, and people that play it are dumb.

I guess the PGE must have been wrong, if we're going to treat ESO as canon. Personally, I like to believe that the entire game is actually just a wildly innacurate holofilm released sometime in the Digital Era.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 28, 2014, 06:10:17 PM
You're playing ESO.  Are you dumb?

On the notion of people who play games they hate.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on July 28, 2014, 06:42:57 PM
I am when I'm playing it.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on July 28, 2014, 07:48:48 PM
I curse a lot when I go up agains bosses who are several levels higher than me and gets killed. I can usually do high level quests fine. But suddenly, boss. Omg rape.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on July 28, 2014, 08:08:11 PM
On the notion of people who play games they hate.

I paid for a month. I'm going to get my money's worth of non-fun. Actually, I do have fun while playing it. The environmental design is excellent. They really nailed the feel of the province of Morrowind. I just don't think ESO does the series justice. It is upsetting to lore whores.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on July 28, 2014, 08:20:01 PM
The environments looks good, yes. Character designs are a bit cartoony though, and there are way too many non-red-eyed dunmers.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on July 28, 2014, 08:31:27 PM
Every face is so bland looking. All of the distinguishing features of the mer races have been melted away, and now they all look like plain Hollywood elves who are wearing too much makeup.

(http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/uVgY_83BpPI/maxresdefault.jpg)

Also, Orcs just look utterly retarded.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on July 28, 2014, 08:33:30 PM
I think Skyrim has perfect character desings. They should have gone with those. Just my opinion.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Blanko on July 28, 2014, 08:34:50 PM
Skyrim perfect
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on July 28, 2014, 08:37:02 PM
Yes, that's something that Skyrim did very well. All of those Oblivion potato face jokes must have really hurt somebody's feelings.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on July 28, 2014, 08:41:31 PM
I'm annoyed by all those pretty face mods people shit out on skyrim nexus and steam workshop.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 29, 2014, 01:52:57 AM
I think Skyrim has perfect character desings. They should have gone with those. Just my opinion.

(http://images.uesp.net/thumb/2/22/MW-creature-Vivec.jpg/600px-MW-creature-Vivec.jpg)

Don't be absurd.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Snupes on July 29, 2014, 02:15:15 AM
Such creativity.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Snupes on July 29, 2014, 02:53:22 AM
Metaphorical brevity. Truly, such is the masterful creativity of Morrowind.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 29, 2014, 04:16:06 AM
Indeed.  Observe his half-Dunmer, half-Chimer design.  He visually communicates the duality of the Dunmer.  It is deep.

They really nailed the feel of the province of Morrowind.

I bet you wouldn't say that if Vvardenfell was available to explore.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on July 29, 2014, 05:18:09 AM
Probably. Also, that isn't the reason for Vivec's coloration. The UESP is usually wrong about things like that.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 29, 2014, 05:40:30 AM
Probably. Also, that isn't the reason for Vivec's coloration. The UESP is usually wrong about things like that.

Go on, tell us what it really is, then.  You know you want to.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on July 29, 2014, 06:09:34 AM
It's related more to his own binary nature and his relationship to Sotha Sil and Almalexia. He's a hermaphrodite, he's bipolar, and he exists simultaneously in multiple universes. He is the "warrior poet", who has mastered both grace and violence. He's sort of the middle-ground between Almalexia (feminine) and Sotha Sil (masculine), as he embodies both feminine and masculine traits. It's implied in the 36 lessons that Sotha Sil and Almalexia could not have become gods without Vivec, the joining element.

That's an extremely abridged explanation, but I think you get the idea. Vivec is probably the most realised character in videogame fiction. Michael Kirkbride became obsessed with him, and wrote at least a novel's worth of information regarding his life. In fact, he still occasionally produces new tidbits of (usually very obscure) lore related to Morrowind and Vivec.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Snupes on July 29, 2014, 06:33:00 AM
His design is still dum
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on July 29, 2014, 07:07:20 AM
The specifics of his physical appearance were probably inspired by Ardhanarishvara (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ardhanarishvara), the androgynous combination of the Hindu gods Shiva and Parvati.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/42/God_marriage_AS.jpg)

THAT's dumb.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on July 29, 2014, 07:30:23 AM
Why isn't his eye red on his Dunmer side?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on July 29, 2014, 07:48:31 AM
Good question. Presumably just an oversight on Bethesda's part. His eyes are different in the concept art.

(http://images.uesp.net/9/9f/MW-concept-07.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/v375UHa.jpg)

The discrepancy is there, but I think Bethesda deserves the blame for this one, not ZeniMax.  They should have bitten the bullet and admitted they were retconning Cyrodiil a long time ago, rather than dragging it out with the CHIM thing.  They knew this game was coming, and they knew that Cyrodiil wasn't going to have any wacky jungle design in it.

ZO could have simply said that Tiber's manipulation of the environment worked retroactively as well. There's already a precedent for CHIM usage affecting time both ways, in the form of Vivec's revision of his own past. Instead, it's a transcription error.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 29, 2014, 01:28:15 PM
Michael Kirkbride became obsessed with him, and wrote at least a novel's worth of information regarding his life. In fact, he still occasionally produces new tidbits of (usually very obscure) lore related to Morrowind and Vivec.

I've heard about that.  His writings are somewhat controversial in the fan community.  Some people say that he's a magnificent writer working tirelessly to enrich the lore; others say that without Bethesda officially "endorsing" the stuff he writes, he's really just a guy writing copious amounts of fanfiction.  The truth most likely lies somewhere in the middle.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on July 29, 2014, 01:48:33 PM
Praise Vivec!
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on July 29, 2014, 02:01:55 PM
Although MK hasn't been a full time Bethesda employee since 2000, he has consistently been doing work for them as an independent contractor ever since. He has been hugely important in shaping the series. Some even go as far as to say that without Kirkbride, the Elder Scrolls would just be another typical Tolkein-fantasy borefest. All of the most important religious texts in the series were written by him: The 36 Lessons of Vivec, The Commentaries on the Mysterium Xarxes, The Song of Pelinal, and the Nu-Mantia Intercept (most of which later became part of the Book of the Dragonborn). Bethesda even uses material that he creates on his own time. Heimksr quotes passages from From The Many Headed Talos verbatim. The Seven Fights of the Aldudagga and The Five Hundred Mighty Companions or Thereabouts of Ysgramor the Returned are responsible for a lot of lore elements in Skyrim, including Whiterun's Companions and the culture of giants.

There's no debate regarding whether or not Bethesda endorses MK's work. The controversy arises from ES fans who can't stomach his more outlandish works - particularly the science fiction. Loveletter From the 5th Era and C0DA, for example. Both can be read here (http://c0da.es/). Some people think that this sort of thing has no place in muh dungeons and dragons. Joke's on them, though. The Elder Scrolls has been sci-fi fantasy ever since work began on Morrowind.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 29, 2014, 02:08:38 PM
And he also wrote Mankar Camoran's dialogue in Oblivion.  His influence is undeniable!
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on July 29, 2014, 02:13:48 PM
Yes, well, nobody's perfect.

The 36 Lessons of Vivec is my favorite text in the series. At one point, Vivec inserts his "milk finger" into some woman's mouth to prevent her from using Thu'um.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 29, 2014, 09:46:48 PM
Has Bethesda ever said explicitly that the stuff that Kirkbride writes is automatically valid lore, or does it just become lore if Bethesda decides to quote it in-game?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on July 30, 2014, 12:09:57 AM
No, they have never explicitly said that we must listen to this guy all the time. Otherwise there wouldn't be any controversy. They've also never contradicted any of his supplementary works.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 30, 2014, 12:41:41 AM
No, they have never explicitly said that we must listen to this guy all the time. Otherwise there wouldn't be any controversy. They've also never contradicted any of his supplementary works.

Ha!  Then there is a debate!  But you do raise a good point, Bethesda has never firmly denied that this space opera is an official part of the Elder Scrolls universe, so...
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on July 30, 2014, 07:04:16 AM
I saw a mod for Skyrim once that adds Pelinal Whitestrake in his Crusader armour as a follower. And the description claims that he's a cyborg from the future, and that it's canon. I tried to look for proof of this but came up with nothing. Know anything about this?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on July 30, 2014, 07:52:06 AM
No, they have never explicitly said that we must listen to this guy all the time. Otherwise there wouldn't be any controversy. They've also never contradicted any of his supplementary works.

Ha!  Then there is a debate!  But you do raise a good point, Bethesda has never firmly denied that this space opera is an official part of the Elder Scrolls universe, so...

Right. I should have said that Bethesda has endorsed a lot of his work. He's remained good friends with a lot of the people at BGS, and I'm sure he'll continue to work with them in the future. I heard a rumor that he offered to write for ESO, but was rejected. Which reminds me...

(http://i.imgur.com/H4QP533.jpg)

I saw a mod for Skyrim once that adds Pelinal Whitestrake in his Crusader armour as a follower. And the description claims that he's a cyborg from the future, and that it's canon. I tried to look for proof of this but came up with nothing. Know anything about this?

Yes. Two of MK's posts addressing Pelinal:

Quote
Pelinal, his closest mythical model would be Gilgamesh, with a dash of a T-800 thrown in, and a full-serving of brain-fracture slaughterhouse antinomial (Kill)3 functions stuck in his hand or head. We tend to forgive those heroes.

Quote
Pelinal was and is an insane collective swarmfoam war-fractal from the future, you betcha.
(in response to the question "is Pelinal really a cyborg?")

All of his forum posts are archived here.  (http://www.imperial-library.info/content/forum-archives-michael-kirkbride)

Here are a few passages from The Song of Pelinal:

Quote
    he was Pelinal the Whitestrake because of his left hand, made of a killing light
[...]
    [And then] Kyne granted Perrif another symbol, a diamond soaked red with the blood of elves, [whose] facets could [un-sector and form] into a man whose every angle could cut her jailers and a name: PELIN-EL [which is] "The Star-Made Knight" [and he] was arrayed in armor [from the future time].
[...]
    [and they] fell on him [speaking] to their weapons... cutting the Pelinal into eighths while he roared in confusion [which even] the Council of Skiffs [could hear]
[...]
    It was Morihaus who found the Whitestrake's head, which the kings had left to prove their deeds and they spoke and Pelinal said things of regrets...

Apart from the ellipses, the bracketed text is not my doing. That's how it's written. The full manuscript can be read here.  (http://www.imperial-library.info/content/song-pelinal)

Oh, I asked some guy on /r/teslore why he didn't accept MK's "far future shit", and he responded:

Quote
Because his trippy future is divorced from the current narrative Elder Scrolls is telling in Betheda's hands and Kirkbride personally called me an expletive-laced string of words.

Classic Cockbird.


Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on July 30, 2014, 09:05:01 AM
Quote
And for the last time (uh huh), Nedes != Atmorans. That's just shoddy scholarship from a bygone regime.
Ha! I knew it! TESO has got it wrong.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Snupes on July 30, 2014, 02:16:21 PM
Yikes...can't say I'm particularly fond of the sci-fi time-traveling robot things either.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on July 30, 2014, 02:42:43 PM
Robots (or automatons, if you want to sound cool) are nothing new to ES, though. They've been around for as long as Arena, in the form of iron golems. Of course, they didn't have a major presence until Redguard introduced the Dwemer. Time travel and the idea of non-linear time has also been a part of the series for a very long time. "Robot" is just a convenient and simple comparison to make. Shapeshifting diamond battle lattice or insane collective swarmfoam war-fractal aren't quite as accessible as descriptions.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Lemon on July 30, 2014, 03:21:49 PM
all elder scrolls sucks nob
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on July 30, 2014, 04:17:40 PM
ebic mene

Just found this. I don't know enough about the cosmology to nitpick, but I'm sure there are problems. It's cool, though. I'm a little miffed that the flat plane is reserved for the "crazy" prince, but at least one of them got it right.

(http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2014/039/c/d/the_elder_scrolls__cosmology_by_okiir-d757i0g.png)
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 30, 2014, 10:09:52 PM
Here we see Kirkbride's unique contribution to TESO lore:

http://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/1oa0q9/queen_ayrenn_was_and_is_named_properly_kinmune/

And to think that ZeniMax actually chose not to give this guy a job.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on July 31, 2014, 07:22:08 AM
 :-\
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on July 31, 2014, 12:54:17 PM
Most of that was originally written in 2011. Lady Nerevar seems to be the one who added the connection between KINMUNE and Queen Ayrenn. If the rumor is true, they certainly didn't turn him away because they don't respect his work. After all, they've taken ideas from his writings just like Bethesda.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on July 31, 2014, 01:34:56 PM
ebic mene

Just found this. I don't know enough about the cosmology to nitpick, but I'm sure there are problems. It's cool, though. I'm a little miffed that the flat plane is reserved for the "crazy" prince, but at least one of them got it right.

(http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2014/039/c/d/the_elder_scrolls__cosmology_by_okiir-d757i0g.png)
Why is the left side or Nirn and the other bodies lit up when the sun is on the right side?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 31, 2014, 01:39:09 PM
Can we complain about TESO's lore now?  Everyone just blurt out anything you see that contradicts the lore.

lore lore lore
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on July 31, 2014, 01:58:01 PM
Altmeri cities are now all Rivendell.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 31, 2014, 08:13:42 PM
Half of the world is inaccessible! >o<
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on July 31, 2014, 09:25:13 PM
Mountains blocking the way where there aren't supposed to be any mountains.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on July 31, 2014, 09:31:24 PM
It's interesting that nobody has ever mentioned or mapped the enormous volcanoes that are now all over the Morrowind mainland.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 31, 2014, 10:29:58 PM
Leyawiin and Bravil don't exist.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on July 31, 2014, 10:50:44 PM
Leyawiin and Bravil don't exist.
Maybe you just can't go there. Can you go to Anvil?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on August 01, 2014, 01:48:31 AM
I dun goofed.  Southwestern and southeastern Cyrodiil aren't available to explore, so Leyawiin and Anvil naturally wouldn't be on the map.  Bravil is the spot that's symbolized on the map, but when you get there, there's just a bunch of walls and buildings with no doors.  Certainly no people.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Snupes on August 01, 2014, 03:38:27 AM
Bravil is the spot that's symbolized on the map, but when you get there, there's just a bunch of walls and buildings with no doors.  Certainly no people.

wat
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on August 01, 2014, 05:20:02 AM
https://imgur.com/a/8VWJo#0

It's very strange.  It doesn't even pop up as "BRAVIL DISCOVERED" or anything, but at the same time, the text in the upper right-hand corner that tells you your location does label it as Bravil, so we know that that's what it's supposed to be.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on August 01, 2014, 05:55:12 AM
I think there are two buildings outside the city walls in Oblivion. The stables, and a skooma den (I think) a bit further away. Looks like no one is home by the time of TESO, and the city is in lockdown maybe?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Snupes on August 01, 2014, 07:19:58 AM
That's weird
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 01, 2014, 09:22:29 AM
I just realized that the name Vivec's Antlers is a reference to MK. On the internet, he usually goes by the name Merry Eyesore the Elk, or just The Elk. And, of course, Vivec is his baby.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 01, 2014, 03:35:37 PM
Reading the ESO forums is agonizing, because I can't make an account to correct any of the dumb things. You need an "invitation code" to register, and apparently buying the game doesn't warrant the receipt of an invitation code. Does anybody know anything about that? Anyway, it's mostly stuff like this:


Quote
Sorry mate but who "wrote" the lore?

Because the majority of the Lore in the Imperial Library, is written by the fan base. Not by the person who created the ES lore.

When we delve more into Lores, Cannons and "Bibles" we look at the tree and miss the forest.

Enjoy the game for what it is. After all what you perceive as "Lore" is not written yet. :) in TESO era.

Also, "OT" is probably the most worthless abbreviation ever. People use it to mean both on topic and off topic.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on August 02, 2014, 02:14:21 PM
They should have emailed you an invitation code.  Also, on the subject of the thread you're quoting from:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/123147/why-does-this-game-insist-on-totally-breaking-the-lore

I don't understand his first point.  He goes on and on about Alduin's Wall, and eventually concludes with "and that's why the Soulburst couldn't happen."  What?

I have now completed the Fighters Guild and Mages Guild questlines.  They were pretty good, if perhaps a bit short.  And I am dissapoint that there's no Thieves Guild or Dark Brotherhood.  BAAAWWWWW!!!!!
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 02, 2014, 02:29:46 PM
And I am dissapoint that there's no Thieves Guild or Dark Brotherhood.  BAAAWWWWW!!!!!

They're so sneaky that you haven't found them yet.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 02, 2014, 05:22:12 PM
They should have emailed you an invitation code.  Also, on the subject of the thread you're quoting from:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/123147/why-does-this-game-insist-on-totally-breaking-the-lore

I don't understand his first point.  He goes on and on about Alduin's Wall, and eventually concludes with "and that's why the Soulburst couldn't happen."  What?

I've checked all my emails from ZOS. Nothing. Fortunately Lady Neravar addressed the post that was bothering me.

That guy is just autistic. I barely skimmed his OP. Looks like he just copied a bunch of stuff from wikis.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on August 03, 2014, 01:32:52 AM
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/123714/which-pov-do-you-prefer

This may not be representative of the player base, but ugh.  What kind of ES fans play the game in third person! >o<
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 03, 2014, 02:49:56 AM
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/123714/which-pov-do-you-prefer

This may not be representative of the player base, but ugh.  What kind of ES fans play the game in third person! >o<

The kind that know there is a very real strategic benefit to being able to observe the entirety of your surroundings; this is opposed to a first person mode that doesn't even offer a resemblance to a realistic human field of view.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 03, 2014, 02:59:04 AM
I enjoyed the post about not even using first person "in real life". That guy has definitely acheived CHIM.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on August 03, 2014, 04:05:37 AM
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/123714/which-pov-do-you-prefer

This may not be representative of the player base, but ugh.  What kind of ES fans play the game in third person! >o<

The kind that know there is a very real strategic benefit to being able to observe the entirety of your surroundings; this is opposed to a first person mode that doesn't even offer a resemblance to a realistic human field of view.

There's also a strategic benefit in being able to see what you're doing and what your enemy is doing.  In third person mode, you're instead staring at the back of your head during battles.

Also, I created a Redguard Templar.  I called him Tyrone Blackman.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost of V on August 03, 2014, 04:12:18 AM



Also, I created a Redguard Templar.  I called him Tyrone Blackman.


That's racist.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on August 03, 2014, 04:13:02 AM
I called him Tyrone Blackman.
That is neither funny nor is it lore lore lore.
By the way. Why are 99,999999999% of all players so uncreative when it comes to character names? At least yours resembles a real name, but most people just seem to use random words along with random numbers.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 03, 2014, 04:22:31 AM
There's also a strategic benefit in being able to see what you're doing and what your enemy is doing properly.

What does this even mean? I'm sure this sentence is the result of you having a rather fascinating definition of "properly."

  In third person mode, you're instead staring at the back of your head during battles.

While staring at the back of your character's head while in third person is an option, it certainly isn't suggested and definitely isn't some inescapable fact. To avoid staring at the back of your character's head, I endear you to look at something else other than the back of your character's head. If this advice does not resolve the problem, I suggest seeing an optometrist, as the motor function of your eyes might be impaired.

Why are 99,999999999% of all players so uncreative when it comes to character names?

Maybe you should ask yourself and see what the answer is, beardo.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on August 03, 2014, 05:12:14 AM
Okay, Rushy.  I removed the "properly" from that sentence, as it was a bit superfluous.  And what I meant in my criticism of third person mode is that a lot of the time your body blocks your view of enemies.  I also find it difficult to properly aim in third person.

I called him Tyrone Blackman.
That is neither funny nor is it lore lore lore.

You have to admit it is kind of funny.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on August 03, 2014, 06:07:47 AM
Maybe you should ask yourself and see what the answer is, beardo.
I come up with names for my characters that actually sounds like they would belong to people in the Elder Scrolls universe,  rather than callin them things like G0d-sl4yerXXX91.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Snupes on August 03, 2014, 07:00:35 AM
Also, I created a Redguard Templar.  I called him Tyrone Blackman.

(http://pigroll.com/img/tyrone_lannister.jpg)
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 03, 2014, 02:51:21 PM
Okay, Rushy.  I removed the "properly" from that sentence, as it was a bit superfluous.  And what I meant in my criticism of third person mode is that a lot of the time your body blocks your view of enemies.  I also find it difficult to properly aim in third person.

I never had that problem when I played (which was third person). You keep wanting this game to be TES, but you have to accept that it is WoW now. You don't see many videos of people playing WoW in first person because first person on an MMO puts you at a disadvantage.

I come up with names for my characters that actually sounds like they would belong to people in the Elder Scrolls universe,  rather than callin them things like G0d-sl4yerXXX91.

God-Slayer could easily be a Nordic name, especially since there is already a Nord named God-Hater.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on August 03, 2014, 02:55:36 PM
You keep wanting this game to be TES, but you have to accept that it is WoW now.

noooooooooooo

Quote
I come up with names for my characters that actually sounds like they would belong to people in the Elder Scrolls universe,  rather than callin them things like G0d-sl4yerXXX91.

God-Slayer could easily be a Nordic name, especially since there is already a Nord named God-Hater.

God-Slayer could be, but not G0d-sl4yerXXX91.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 03, 2014, 03:03:45 PM
God-Slayer could be, but not G0d-sl4yerXXX91.

That is Zenimax's fault for not acknowledging that multiple people could have the same name.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Blanko on August 03, 2014, 03:09:13 PM
You keep wanting this game to be TES, but you have to accept that it is WoW now.

That is kind of insulting. WoW is actually open world.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 03, 2014, 03:19:03 PM
God-Slayer could be, but not G0d-sl4yerXXX91.

That is Zenimax's fault for not acknowledging that multiple people could have the same name.

Actually the person who couldn't come up with an original and appealing name would be at fault.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 03, 2014, 03:31:15 PM
Actually the person who couldn't come up with an original and appealing name would be at fault.

There is no (good) reason to not allow duplicate character names. Furthermore, there is no such thing as an original name.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 03, 2014, 03:40:29 PM
Furthermore, there is no such thing as an original name.

What do you mean? Every possible combination of syllables has already been used? What about Hundrskrundonskrillimundenfax?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 03, 2014, 04:58:20 PM
What do you mean? Every possible combination of syllables has already been used? What about Hundrskrundonskrillimundenfax?

Do not confuse novel with original.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 03, 2014, 05:03:02 PM
What do you mean? Every possible combination of syllables has already been used? What about Hundrskrundonskrillimundenfax?

Do not confuse novel with original.

Too late, I've already confused them. Please explain the difference.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 03, 2014, 05:09:47 PM
Too late, I've already confused them. Please explain the difference.

Novel works combine already existing concepts. Original works must be just that, original. They can not imitate in any way, shape, or form, that which has existed before. Thus it is impossible for the human mind to actually fathom an original idea. The human mind can only reshape that which already exists, it can not create original works, only novel ones.

For example, if I were to take a square and fashion six of them together, creating a cube, this would be a novel way to display squares (assuming my audience has never seen a cube). A cube is not my original work, I simply combined squares in a novel manner. We all stand on the shoulders of giants which are thus formed in a similar fashion to an ever increasing house of cards.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 03, 2014, 05:14:10 PM
Too late, I've already confused them. Please explain the difference.

Novel works combine already existing concepts. Original works must be just that, original. They can not imitate in any way, shape, or form, that which has existed before. Thus it is impossible for the human mind to actually fathom an original idea. The human mind can only reshape that which already exists, it can not create original works, only novel ones.

For example, if I were to take a square and fashion six of them together, creating a cube, this would be a novel way to display squares (assuming my audience has never seen a cube). A cube is not my original work, I simply combined squares in a novel manner.

In the future, could you do us all a favor and just get the retarded stuff out of the way right at the beginning of an exchange? It would save a lot of time.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 03, 2014, 06:31:13 PM
In the future, could you do us all a favor and just get the retarded stuff out of the way right at the beginning of an exchange? It would save a lot of time.

You're debating incorrectly. The technique is dodge, then stab, all you're doing in this post is dodging.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Vindictus on August 03, 2014, 10:17:26 PM
In the future, could you do us all a favor and just get the retarded stuff out of the way right at the beginning of an exchange? It would save a lot of time.

You're debating incorrectly. The technique is dodge, then stab, all you're doing in this post is dodging.


Haha, oh wow.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on August 04, 2014, 01:28:33 PM
I never thought I'd say this, but let's go back to Morrowhine.  Before Rushy rushes over this thread any more.

Lastly, the voice acting that is present is actually some of the best in the series. There's a reason people have been whining about bringing back Jeff Baker's Dunmer voice ever since Oblivion's release. Listen for yourself:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvkjmnRRcG4

It's genuinely unnerving to hear an Ordinator growl something like "let's not make this official, outlander... move along."

While this guy is definitely a million times better than the foppish pansy that replaced him in Oblivion, there's no way that voice would have worked in a setting other than delivering the odd line here and there.  He sounds like the Dark Knight, for crying out loud.  Nobody would be able to get through a conversation with him because they'd be too busy laughing their asses off.  He makes the Ahnold impersonator from Skyrim sound positively natural in comparison.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on August 04, 2014, 01:45:08 PM
They did records Dunmer dialogues with Baker, but they decided to not use them. The potato-faces wouldn't have worked with his Dunmer voice at all.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on August 04, 2014, 02:06:10 PM
(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i29/YamiArne/LPOblivionDarkElf.jpg)

I do not speak with vagrants.

Yeah, it doesn't really work.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 04, 2014, 03:00:09 PM
You can see a conversation using Baker's voice early in this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjbx6-KQoRg

I remember being so excited by the AI demonstrated in that video.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Blanko on August 04, 2014, 03:12:12 PM
>invites you upstairs
>starts practicing archery

Glad they ditched this shit
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 04, 2014, 03:19:55 PM
If the dog didn't piss her off things definitely would have heated up.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on August 04, 2014, 06:04:21 PM
Huge fucking update going on now. Maybe they've implemented that new face animation engine for more natural expressions and lip syncing.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 04, 2014, 06:15:42 PM
No, they've said that the new facial animation system won't be released for a while.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on August 04, 2014, 07:05:53 PM
fug
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on August 04, 2014, 07:46:13 PM
You can see a conversation using Baker's voice early in this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjbx6-KQoRg

I remember being so excited by the AI demonstrated in that video.

Wow.  Such blatant lies.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 04, 2014, 09:48:05 PM
Apparently the first iteration of Radiant AI was much more advanced. So much more, in fact, that NPCs started doing crazy things like killing each other for food if they had no other option. Their behavior was too extreme, so Bethesda lobotomized everybody's AI. Basically like the exact plot of Shutter Island. Even so, that E3 demo is inexcusable. By the grace of hindsight, it's obvious that the entire interaction was very carefully crafted by hand.   
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Snupes on August 04, 2014, 09:55:13 PM
Apparently the first iteration of Radiant AI was much more advanced. So much more, in fact, that NPCs started doing crazy things like killing each other for food if they had no other option. Their behavior was too extreme, so Bethesda lobotomized everybody's AI.

I know, after reading about the Radiant AI system I'm so damn upset that they got rid of it. I don't care how out of control the game got, it would be so amazing
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 04, 2014, 11:48:29 PM
I remember being so excited by the AI demonstrated in that video.
Wow.  Such blatant lies.

They didn't necessarily lie, its just that the radiant AI is so broken and frustrating to use that not even the developers themselves really used it in the way the video portrays. The AI system is also what scared away a lot of Oblivion modders, in order to create even the most simple NPC you must do nonsense things such as tell them how hungry they are.

Apparently the first iteration of Radiant AI was much more advanced. So much more, in fact, that NPCs started doing crazy things like killing each other for food if they had no other option. Their behavior was too extreme, so Bethesda lobotomized everybody's AI. Basically like the exact plot of Shutter Island. Even so, that E3 demo is inexcusable. By the grace of hindsight, it's obvious that the entire interaction was very carefully crafted by hand.   

Well the obvious fix is to give them more food. I'd honestly murder other people for food, too, if that was the only option left.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on August 04, 2014, 11:55:23 PM
They didn't necessarily lie, its just that the radiant AI is so broken and frustrating to use that not even the developers themselves really used it in the way the video portrays. The AI system is also what scared away a lot of Oblivion modders, in order to create even the most simple NPC you must do nonsense things such as tell them how hungry they are.

The fact that they presented such an obviously scripted scene as being a product of the AI is itself an enormous lie.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 04, 2014, 11:57:18 PM
The fact that they presented such an obviously scripted scene as being a product of the AI is itself an enormous lie.

They were demonstrating what the AI can do, I don't think they were necessarily saying "this is a hands-off video of us playing the game."
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on August 05, 2014, 01:47:51 AM
I just killed Mannimarco.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 05, 2014, 01:54:07 AM
Obviously not, since we kill him in Oblivion.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost of V on August 05, 2014, 01:59:43 AM
I just killed Mannimarco.

In TESO? How does that work?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 05, 2014, 02:58:50 AM
According to the TESO wiki, you can only free mannimarco in a quest or leave him. It doesn't say anything about you being able to fight/kill him. That would be utterly world-breaking.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on August 05, 2014, 03:24:03 AM
According to the TESO wiki, you can only free mannimarco in a quest or leave him. It doesn't say anything about you being able to fight/kill him. That would be utterly world-breaking.

That's part of a later quest, it looks like.  I guess it's his soul or spirit that you have the option of freeing, and canonically he must have been able to find a way to...bring himself back to life?  Not sure if that's how necromancy works in these games.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost of V on August 05, 2014, 05:38:11 PM
Not sure if that's how necromancy works in these games.

I don't see why not. Surely someone could write in whatever nonsense they wanted to bring Mannimarco back if you do actually kill him in TESO. Although, most necromancy I've seen in ES usually doesn't bring people back correctly. They are usually not quite right when they come back, or are just zombied.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on August 05, 2014, 07:51:04 PM
Replying to this here so as to avoid cluttering up the other thread:

I'm playing Skyrim again. The Dragonborn expansion, specifically. Isn't it funny that Bethesda's two best expansion packs since Morrowind's release (Shivering Isles and Dragonborn) are both heavily inspired by Morrowind? More supporting evidence for the case that any videogame that isn't Morrowind 2 is a waste of money and time.

It's supporting evidence for the case that Bethesda does their best work when they steer clear of dumb tropes like Standard Fantasy Setting (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StandardFantasySetting) or Medieval European Fantasy (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MedievalEuropeanFantasy) and instead focus on coming up with their own unique, creative settings.  You don't want to see a rehash of Morrowind.  You might think you do, but you really don't.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 05, 2014, 08:19:34 PM
I literally do, though. That's why I'm excited about Skywind.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Blanko on August 05, 2014, 08:21:20 PM
...Why? That's just Morrowind without all the shit that makes Morrowind cool.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 05, 2014, 08:23:47 PM
What, like the epic combat? Mostly I'll just be walking around to see what changes they've made to the landscape. Also, I prefer Skyrim's classless levelling system.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online
Post by: Saddam Hussein on August 06, 2014, 12:06:32 AM
A couple of corrections I need to make:

Not with all the stuff they could have put into the game in its place.  Things like the Thieves Guild, the Dark Brotherhood, the Companions, the Morag Tong, the rest of the fucking map, etc.

The Companions and the Morag Tong actually are in this game.  Not as joinable guilds or anything, but nevertheless, they are present.

I've only seen John Cleese and Alfred Molina briefly so far, but they seem to do all right. 

Molina does quite well as Abnur Tharn, his not remembering his favorite line when he was being interviewed notwithstanding.  Cleese sounds pretty bored.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on August 06, 2014, 12:14:28 AM
The Thirty-Six Lessons of Vivec.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 06, 2014, 12:20:04 AM
The Thirty-Six Lessons of Vivec.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZUTFDGtquo&list=PL1UyjN9xuIDyyia8I5FVe3fv_ptXsQLgc

mispronounces Vivec within first two seconds

epic
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on August 06, 2014, 12:47:15 AM
vie-vec

Even TESO pronounces Vivec's name right! >o<  Also:

http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=12855.msg189618#msg189618

Quote from: Dioptimus Drime
Okay, so rant time.


FIRSTLY! They fucked up the lore so badly that you wouldn't believe.
Exhibit A: Cyrodiil is a temperate forest-filled, plain-covered cliche fantasy setting. Read previous books from the past games and you will note that Cyrodiil is a JUNGLE with a few big cities sitting in the middle of it. A JUNGLE. Not a forest.
Exhibit B: "Oblivion" is Hell--and one big, crappy cliche. Okay, think about this for a while...Mehrunes Dagon is a crazy god and an evil genius. Why would his pocket of Oblivion be so ridiculously cliched? There aren't many books covering Dagon's lair, but the one that does describes it as eerie and ominous with dead forests and a dull silence. When I walked through the portal to Dagon's pocket, what I got was not eerie, creepy, nor did it display dead forests or eerie silence. It was a cliche fantasy of Hell, with goddamned LAVA PITS. Bullshit.
Exhibit C: Mannimarco, the King of Worms is a high elf fool who took about three hits and a fireball cast to get rid of him as the 'boss' on a minor subquest in the game. Umm...Mannimarco is a DEMIGOD. He used to be a mortal, but he was never a high elf, and way back when during the dragon shift, he got turned into a GOD by the Numidium. I mean, for Christ's sakes if it was that easy to kill him, you would think that he wouldn't have been a problem at all for the mage's guild or the imperial guard to do themselves.
Exhibit D (I'm gonna keep going): The Imperial City is a piece of shit. Firstly, it very, very roughly follows previous books' examples of what's going on in there. It's also barely bigger than fricking BALMORA, for God's sakes. It's TINY compared to what it's supposed to be. White-Gold Tower was supposed to be HUMONGOUS, not a little stick stuck in the ground in the middle of a crappy-looking city. I mean, COME ON. This is Rome, this is Byzantium, this is Alexandria, this is Athens, and they made it a tiny, little village on a small island.
Exhibit E: Deer? Deer?! Cyrodiil is supposed to be more "normal" than Morrowind or Daggerfall, yes, but DEER?! I loved Elder Scrolls way back when because it was ORIGINAL. When you're walking through Morrowind, you encounter Silt Striders, Cliff Riders, and a series of fantastical beasts. When you're walking through Murkwood or Daggerfall or wherever, you encounter similarly strange creatures that you couldn't even imagine. Instead of that, Oblivion gives me DEER.
There are numerous other examples, but I'm thinking you're getting the picture here.

Next on the chopping block: Modding capabilities.
One thing that really MADE the Elder Scrolls series what they were was the modding community. New mods came out every day, and they were all so much fun, and I was expecting this with Oblivion...but no. Why? Because it's impossible.
I modded for Daggerfall and Morrowind. I still can't mod for Oblivion. It's ridiculous.
The AI system, for one (you know, the "radiant AI" which never ended up working how it was supposed to?), was impossible to use. For every NPC, you have to put in their wishes, their goals, their ambitions. Hell, if you want a guard standing in the middle of a city, patrolling, you can't just tell him to patrol the area, you have to tell him how fucking HUNGRY he is. I DON'T CARE HOW HUNGRY HE IS.
Next, the model imports/exports. The models are hardcoded into the game. They can't be touched except with outside programs. WHY the devs decided to do this, I have no idea, but it really fucked things up. It means that new weapons, new armor, new ANYTHING is practically impossible to import into the game.
Then there's the questing. Instead of making things simple like they did in the previous games, you have to have a sound file attached to each and every person in the game, you need to have a journal entry which is SEPARATE from the actual quest, and then you need a compass point for everything. I can't even convey how annoying it is to have to make a quest in Oblivion.
It's honestly no wonder why the modding community stayed on Morrowind.

Then there's the gameplay features.
A compass? Why the hell do I need a compass? In Morrowind, Daggerfall, and Arena, part of the fun in things was having to go out into the wilderness, and blaze your own trails, and look for this and that while fighting off enemies and trying to stay to your path. In Oblivion, you just warp to a few feet away, and then follow an arrow that tells you where you need to be...Hmmm...
The combat system is also a piece of crap. It turned the whole game into a hack'n'slash, not an RPG. Morrowind was borderline, but Oblivion really sealed the deal, and it barely has anything to do with skill or player-build anymore.
Then there's the leveled lists. I barely want to even get started on these. The devs' laziness reeeeally taxed the game, and it shows in the leveled lists the most. "Wow, this monster is really hard for me to kill. I guess I'll go have to train up my skills and come back........Phwew that was a taxing workout, but now I feel really strong and powerful. Here I come, you...you're totally not the monster that was here before..." If you go and train your own character in hopes to defeat a monster that you couldn't beat before, you come back five levels stronger, and WHAT DO YOU KNOW? The monster that was hard to beat is now TWENTY levels stronger than it was before, and even harder to beat.
Not to mention, the leveled lists also screw with loot. The boards for a while were raging wild with examples of how they found a rat carrying two forks and a spoon...in its backpack? Or how a headless zombie was carrying two heads along with it for no apparent reason. A personal example is when I was waltzing around killing Imperial Guards, and I found one with a myriad of gems and expensive things. I'm sure it's the guard's pay that allowed him to buy all of these things and he was just carrying them around the Imperial City in hopes that someone might come along to kill him and steal all his stuff...right?
Oh, and don't forget the bandits. You know, those poor highway men on the street who are going and attacking people to scrounge up some exta money even though they're already donned in full elven mithril, bejewled rings and necklesses, and priceless swords...every penny counts?

Here's where I'm going to stop for now. I can think of countless other jewels of idiocy that I encountered in the game, but I think I made my point. Oblivion would still be an alright game if it wasn't part of a series. Unfortunately, and something that I think Bethesda forgot entirely, the game IS part of a series, and, imagine this, they have a fanbase who respected them and waited eagerly for a game that they never got.

~D-Draw

Many of his points are wrong.  Mannimarco was indeed an Altmer, and it was only ever rumored that the Dragon Break (which is presumably what he meant when he said "dragon shift") turned him into a god.  It's actually kind of funny that anyone would try to point to an event as incredibly (and deliberately) vague as the Warp in the West as evidence of any detail of lore.  The Imperial City is far larger than Balmora.  And his description of the Deadlands is wrong.  Here's the book he must have misread:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Doors_of_Oblivion

Quote
'I am in a storm,' he told me as he entered the next realm. He described the landscape of dark twisted trees, howling spirits, and billowing mist, and I thought he might have entered the Deadlands of Mehrunes Dagon. But then he said quickly, 'No, I am no longer in a forest. There was a flash of lightning, and now I am on a ship. The mast is tattered. The crew is slaughtered. Something is coming through the waves … oh, gods … Wait, now, I am in a dank dungeon, in a cell …'

He was not in the Deadlands, but Quagmire, the nightmare realm of Vaernima.

derp

I also assume he was talking about quest markers when he said "compass."  Even though Morrowind doesn't have a compass, for some unfathomable reason.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on August 06, 2014, 08:05:04 AM
Even though Morrowind doesn't have a compass, for some unfathomable reason.
It has a minimap instead.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 06, 2014, 11:41:34 AM
I'm pretty sure he meant "compass" when he said "compass". You can't stumble on anything unexpectedly with the compass.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on August 06, 2014, 05:52:37 PM
<Saddam> This game's ridiculous choices
<Saddam> It automatically kills you if you get too close to the Imperial City
<Snupes> wat
<Saddam> Yeah, they call it "environmental damage" and it registers as 0 damage
<Blanko> How does dying work in TESO
<Saddam> But it just automtically kills you
<Saddam> When you die you respawn at a wayshrine
<beardo> you respawn at a wayshrine, or if you have a full soulgem, you can respawn in palce
<beardo> place, even
<Saddam> And there's a perk you can get that allows you to respawn right there once an hour
<beardo> Yes
<beardo> But all the enemies in the area will have full HP again once you respawn
<Blanko> >once an hour
<Blanko> So you can always respawn right where you die, right? :^)
<Saddam> No
<Blanko> Saddam dies more than once an hour, confirmed
<Saddam> The game is super-difficult
<Blanko> lol
<Snupes> It's literally the Dark Souls of MMOs
<Blanko> Dark Souls isn't hard though
<beardo> It's only difficult when you're in high level areas
<Snupes> Blanko does not need to play a game to know its difficulty
<Snupes> He is literlaly Rishy
<Saddam> All of Cyrodiil is high-level
<Blanko> They wouldn't make a TES game hard
<Saddam> Because they apparently want to discourage PvP
<beardo> If you're level 20, and you try to fight level 30 enemies, you run a big chanse of getting killed
<Blanko> Gotta pander to the fanbase of literally babies
<Blanko> beardo: Uh no shit
<Blanko> Pretty sure you're supposed to be killing things of your level m80
<Snupes> Where's the fun if you can't put a ton of time and effort into taking down things way more powerful than you
<beardo> punishing exploration
<Blanko> Yes
<beardo> I killed a level 21 boss when I was level 14
<beardo> It took a few tries
<Blanko> They want to railroad you through the Correct Way to Play The Game
<Saddam> Linear Theme Park
<beardo> Some quests doesn't even involve killing anyone, so those are always easy even if they are 15 levels higher than you are
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 06, 2014, 06:24:11 PM
Or it could just be a regular compass, not one that shows you locations before you've discovered them.

Yeah, it could be... but it isn't. Not sure what you're saying.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on August 06, 2014, 06:48:08 PM
I'm saying that it makes no sense to complain about there being a compass in general if your complaint is really that the way the compass works is bad.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost of V on August 06, 2014, 06:57:24 PM
I'm saying that it makes no sense to complain about there being a compass in general if your complaint is really that the way the compass works is bad.

Are you trying to say that complaining about something being designed badly makes no sense? Because I think it makes a lot of sense... what other reason is there to complain about anything?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 06, 2014, 06:58:04 PM
I'm saying that it makes no sense to complain about there being a compass in general if your complaint is really that the way the compass works is bad.

You're an idiot.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on August 06, 2014, 07:01:02 PM
But you're a cunt.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Blanko on August 06, 2014, 07:04:57 PM
Oooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on August 06, 2014, 08:14:32 PM
I'm saying that it makes no sense to complain about there being a compass in general if your complaint is really that the way the compass works is bad.

Are you trying to say that complaining about something being designed badly makes no sense? Because I think it makes a lot of sense... what other reason is there to complain about anything?

I didn't say anything even remotely similar to that.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost of V on August 06, 2014, 08:16:25 PM
You're an idiot.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Vindictus on August 06, 2014, 09:16:14 PM
TES gets personal.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 06, 2014, 09:25:44 PM
get trolled
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on August 07, 2014, 12:17:56 AM
You're an idiot.

I'm beginning to notice something about you in this thread:

http://www.flamewarriorsguide.com/warriorshtm/bigdogmetoo.htm

You are literally Me-Too.  You were soundly thrashed when you foolishly tried to claim that Oblivion was the best ES game, and now you're just trying to ally yourself with anything that Alexandyr says.  I see through you!
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost of V on August 07, 2014, 12:22:01 AM
You're an idiot.

I'm beginning to notice something about you in this thread:

http://www.flamewarriorsguide.com/warriorshtm/bigdogmetoo.htm

You are literally Me-Too.  You were soundly thrashed when you foolishly tried to claim that Oblivion was the best ES game, and now you're just trying to ally yourself with anything that Alexandyr says.  I see through you!


You're still an idiot and Oblivion is still the best ES game. Deal with it.

If I saw Alex in real life I'd probably stab him.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 07, 2014, 12:27:00 AM
Mods, please arrest Vauxhall.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost of V on August 07, 2014, 12:53:04 AM
Oblivion is still the best ES game. Deal with it.

Generic LotR fantasy setting.

Not according to this (http://i.imgur.com/rhWfS44.jpg) screenshot.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Vindictus on August 07, 2014, 01:04:49 AM
Looks like LotR to me.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost of V on August 07, 2014, 01:06:48 AM
With enough mods Oblivion can be whatever you want it to be. According to Alex-logic this means Oblivion is the best game ever made.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 07, 2014, 01:14:27 AM
tfw I get rekt
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on August 07, 2014, 02:19:08 AM
Oblivion is still the best ES game. Deal with it.

Generic LotR fantasy setting.

Not according to this (http://i.imgur.com/rhWfS44.jpg) screenshot.

...that's MorrowindOblivion is the game with the generic LotR fantasy setting.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost of V on August 07, 2014, 02:20:12 AM
I can see why you might be confused. That is actually a heavily modded version of Oblivion.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Vindictus on August 07, 2014, 02:32:53 AM
I don't know who to believe
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on August 07, 2014, 02:39:27 AM
Amazing, they modded the Morrowind UI - and Balmora - into Oblivion!
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 07, 2014, 03:20:56 AM
I'm sure he's joking, but I don't know what the joke is.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 07, 2014, 03:49:36 AM
I don't get how Saddam can say that Oblivion is a generic fantasy setting but Morrowind isn't.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 07, 2014, 04:41:34 AM
I don't get how Saddam can say that Oblivion is a generic fantasy setting but Morrowind isn't.

I don't get how you can not get that.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on August 07, 2014, 05:34:23 AM
Morrowind averts almost all of the basic tropes that most fantasy works strive to include, giving the world a wonderfully unique vibe.  The land itself isn't the usual quaint English countryside.  The political system isn't the usual feudal nobility with a hereditary line of monarchs at the top.  The city designs are remarkably creative.  The flora and fauna are utterly zany.  The setting just looks and feels very, very different from the kind of thing you'd see in Tolkien or Warhammer or D&D or Dragonlance or Game of Thrones or whatever, and that can only be a good thing when most fantasy that comes out these days just seems to be more of the same.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 07, 2014, 05:40:56 AM
Morrowind averts almost all of the basic tropes that most fantasy works strive to include, giving the world a wonderfully unique vibe.  The land itself isn't the usual quaint English countryside.  The political system isn't the usual feudal nobility with a hereditary line of monarchs at the top.  The city designs are remarkably creative.  The flora and fauna are utterly zany.  The setting just looks and feels very, very different from the kind of thing you'd see in Tolkien or Warhammer or D&D or Dragonlance or Game of Thrones or whatever, and that can only be a good thing when most fantasy that comes out these days just seems to be more of the same.

Just because Morrowind is a different stereotype doesn't mean it isn't a stereotype. In fact the game reminds me of Warcraft quite a bit, especially the land beyond the dark portal. Furthermore, how could you possibly say the game isn't the kind of thing you'd see in D&D when out of all the TES games, Morrowind is the most like it?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on August 07, 2014, 10:32:07 PM
The wisdom of Vivec.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 07, 2014, 10:34:02 PM
Morrowind averts almost all of the basic tropes that most fantasy works strive to include, giving the world a wonderfully unique vibe.  The land itself isn't the usual quaint English countryside.  The political system isn't the usual feudal nobility with a hereditary line of monarchs at the top.  The city designs are remarkably creative.  The flora and fauna are utterly zany.  The setting just looks and feels very, very different from the kind of thing you'd see in Tolkien or Warhammer or D&D or Dragonlance or Game of Thrones or whatever, and that can only be a good thing when most fantasy that comes out these days just seems to be more of the same.

Just because Morrowind is a different stereotype doesn't mean it isn't a stereotype.

Can you describe the stereotype?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on August 07, 2014, 11:36:53 PM
I certainly could not.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost of V on August 07, 2014, 11:52:26 PM
It's the "wacky colorful look we're a different kind of setting" stereotype.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 07, 2014, 11:58:27 PM
It's the "wacky colorful look we're a different kind of setting" stereotype.

Wacky and colorful? One of the biggest complaints about Morrowind's aesthetic is that everything is either brown or gray. Even if it were accurate, that seems way too vague to be an actual stereotype. Can you provide some other examples that fit this description?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost of V on August 08, 2014, 12:09:16 AM
It's the "wacky colorful look we're a different kind of setting" stereotype.

Wacky and colorful? One of the biggest complaints about Morrowind's aesthetic is that everything is either brown or gray. Even if it were accurate, that seems way too vague to be an actual stereotype. Can you provide some other examples that fit this description?

Warcraft.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 08, 2014, 12:19:51 AM
It's the "wacky colorful look we're a different kind of setting" stereotype.

Wacky and colorful? One of the biggest complaints about Morrowind's aesthetic is that everything is either brown or gray. Even if it were accurate, that seems way too vague to be an actual stereotype. Can you provide some other examples that fit this description?

Warcraft.

http://www.flamewarriorsguide.com/warriorshtm/bigdogmetoo.htm

Can you be more specific, though?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Vindictus on August 08, 2014, 12:25:58 AM
That's a very strange criticism. Warcraft isn't necessarily 'wacky and colourful' either.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost of V on August 08, 2014, 12:49:59 AM
I'm not even criticizing. I just like watching Alex get all worked up about Morrowind. I've always thought Morrowind was a great game. I like Oblivion better though. Personally opinion so I don't really want to get into a debate about it. The settings in games are not what makes/breaks the game for me, though. I have no issue with Oblivion's more generic presentation.

Burning Crusade WoW is reminiscent of Morrowind though, similar looking flora at least. Although, Morrowind arguably did it first and did it better.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 08, 2014, 01:30:51 AM
Although, Morrowind arguably did it first

I would argue that 2002 was before 2007.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Vindictus on August 08, 2014, 01:32:03 AM
Morrowind was in space?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on August 08, 2014, 02:05:13 AM
Morrowind is a funky game that only true funksters can appreciate.  Oblivion, however, is a white bread game made for conservative congressmen.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 08, 2014, 02:21:12 AM
Can you describe the stereotype?

In a word? Mushrooms.

Morrowind is a funky game that only true funksters can appreciate.  Oblivion, however, is a white bread game made for conservative congressmen.

Oh really? Since you've already posted TvTropes as a criticism of Oblivion, then obviously the same must work for Morrowind. Let's take a look: (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StandardFantasySetting)

 
Quote
   Post-Tolkien, this usually has at least three of the standard Five Races of heroic peoples:
        Dwarves

...Yes.
       
Quote
Elves

...Yes.

       
Quote
Humans

Do  I have to say yes or do you need to think this one out a bit?

           
Quote
As an alternative, Humans can be divided into races. Normally, this is done by using hair color and/or a Fantasy Counterpart Culture.

...Yes.
           
Quote
Any of the above being called by a different name is allowed. That applies to humans, too.

Yes, everything that even remotely looks like an elf should have "mer" in the name, including dwarves!


Quote
    Our Monsters Are Different

Check out how wacky and zany and "different" our monsters are!
 
Quote
   Functional Magic
        Magic A Is Magic A, almost invariably
        Black Magic (Dark Is Not Evil is allowed as an implementation detail)
        Squishy Wizards
        Linear Warriors, Quadratic Wizards

Yes.
 
 
Quote
At least two of the following:
        The Empire
        The Kingdom
        The Alliance
        The Horde (usually Undead or Orcish, and every so often, Beast Men, when the author wants a little variety or is a fur-fan. For even more variety, all three at once.)
    Standard royal courts

Well, there is an empire, but as for the name itself there is no other entity, so this I can't really say. Though five great houses that you are born into for political power is not really groundbreaking, unless Game of Thrones strikes you as "new and original."

   
Quote
A (usually) European-style Pseudo-Medieval setting.

Check.

Quote
        Generally Medieval Stasis; the general dividing line is that any technology that Leonardo da Vinci wouldn't have drawn renders the setting non-compliant, unless said technology is a Relic Of The Past.

Yes and no. The dwemer built some awesome stuff, but then magically disappeared so that the world could stay in a medieval shit hole. I'm going to give this one a check.

Quote
            Fantasy Gun Control: You'd better learn how to use a bow, Mack, 'cause that gun's just gonna click.

Dwemer: Good enough to make robots, too dumb to make guns. Weird.
 

Quote
        The Sword And Sandal subgenre thrives in a Fantasy Counterpart Culture in the ancient world and — just to make life confusing — can cheerfully co-exist with other portions of the world having a pseudo-medieval setting.

Check.


Quote
            Similarly, technology is often all over the place, with Iron, Bronze, and Stone-age weapons existing alongside actual Middle Age- and early Renaissance-era weapons. Even if there are no guns, for example, you will often easily find rapiers, light blades that only came about in Real Life because guns began making armor less prevalent.

Yes.

Quote
    Fantasy Character Classes, if the work in question is a Roleplaying Game of some kind, though this is not a necessary element. If it's not a game it may still feature some of the character archetypes that inspired the modern classes.

Morrowind is literally D&D when it comes to this.

The lesson here guys is there is no TES game that isn't a generic fantasy game, no matter how much you want to say it is unqiue or original. That goes doubly so for Morrowind, which is on top of being a generic fantasy, also has a pretty generic setting and landscape.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Vongeo on August 08, 2014, 02:38:30 AM


 
Quote
   Post-Tolkien, this usually has at least three of the standard Five Races of heroic peoples:
        Dwarves

There is one dwarf, and he's part robot crab
       
Quote
Elves

...Yes.

       
Quote
Humans

Do  I have to say yes or do you need to think this one out a bit?

           
Quote
As an alternative, Humans can be divided into races. Normally, this is done by using hair color and/or a Fantasy Counterpart Culture.

...Yes.
           
Quote
Any of the above being called by a different name is allowed. That applies to humans, too.

Yes, everything that even remotely looks like an elf should have "mer" in the name, including dwarves!


Quote
    Our Monsters Are Different

Why did you include this but not the beast races which are much more present and there.
 
Quote
   Functional Magic
        Magic A Is Magic A, almost invariably
        Black Magic (Dark Is Not Evil is allowed as an implementation detail)
        Squishy Wizards
        Linear Warriors, Quadratic Wizards

There ain't no black magic.
 
 
Quote
At least two of the following:
        The Empire
        The Kingdom
        The Alliance
        The Horde (usually Undead or Orcish, and every so often, Beast Men, when the author wants a little variety or is a fur-fan. For even more variety, all three at once.)
    Standard royal courts

Well, there is an empire, but as for the name itself there is no other entity, so this I can't really say. Though five great houses that you are born into for political power is not really groundbreaking, unless Game of Thrones strikes you as "new and original."

   
Quote
A (usually) European-style Pseudo-Medieval setting.

Its mostly weird buildings made of crabs and middle eastern holes.

Quote
        Generally Medieval Stasis; the general dividing line is that any technology that Leonardo da Vinci wouldn't have drawn renders the setting non-compliant, unless said technology is a Relic Of The Past.

At this point we can tell Rushy can't get past the red mountains

Quote
            Fantasy Gun Control: You'd better learn how to use a bow, Mack, 'cause that gun's just gonna click.

They don't have gun powder
 

Quote
        The Sword And Sandal subgenre thrives in a Fantasy Counterpart Culture in the ancient world and — just to make life confusing — can cheerfully co-exist with other portions of the world having a pseudo-medieval setting.

Check.


Quote
            Similarly, technology is often all over the place, with Iron, Bronze, and Stone-age weapons existing alongside actual Middle Age- and early Renaissance-era weapons. Even if there are no guns, for example, you will often easily find rapiers, light blades that only came about in Real Life because guns began making armor less prevalent.

Only 2 sabers in the game and they are pretty thick

Quote
    Fantasy Character Classes, if the work in question is a Roleplaying Game of some kind, though this is not a necessary element. If it's not a game it may still feature some of the character archetypes that inspired the modern classes.

Morrowind you can pick whatever skills you want and are restricted to what particular skills you would be good at dependent on your history as a person.

Rushy is bad at Morrowind.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Vindictus on August 08, 2014, 02:40:54 AM
#Rushy'd
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost of V on August 08, 2014, 02:53:11 AM
*golf clap*
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on August 08, 2014, 04:04:55 AM
If only I weren't confined to my phone and could write out a detailed rebuttal.  Off the top of my head, the Dwemer aren't really dwarves, none of the cultures in these games could really be considered a "counterpart" of a real life one, and I don't care about D&D's class mechanics.  The setting is what's being discussed here.

And in answer to the question you first raised, no, not really.  Don't be dumb.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 08, 2014, 04:12:00 AM
If only I weren't confined to my phone and could write out a detailed rebuttal.  Off the top of my head, the Dwemer aren't really dwarves, none of the cultures in these games could really be considered a "counterpart" of a real life one, and I don't care about D&D's class mechanics.  The setting is what's being discussed here.

They live underground, are mostly machinists, and have great flowing beards. They're the very archetype of dwarves.

Furthermore, class mechanics are part of the setting. You're basically saying "everyone in this world equals one of these things."
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Vindictus on August 08, 2014, 04:32:53 AM
If only I weren't confined to my phone and could write out a detailed rebuttal.  Off the top of my head, the Dwemer aren't really dwarves, none of the cultures in these games could really be considered a "counterpart" of a real life one, and I don't care about D&D's class mechanics.  The setting is what's being discussed here.

They live underground, are mostly machinists, and have great flowing beards. They're the very archetype of dwarves.

Furthermore, class mechanics are part of the setting. You're basically saying "everyone in this world equals one of these things."


Change a couple of minor details and BAM, you have yourself a brand new 'original' race. They're totally not Dwarves.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 08, 2014, 05:18:37 AM
Change a couple of minor details and BAM, you have yourself a brand new 'original' race. They're totally not Dwarves.

Yeah, I don't get Saddam's logic. Also, to further my point, TES games colloquially refer to the Dwemer as "dwarves" in multiple texts.

Quote from: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Dwemer
commonly referred as "Dwarves"

He might as well return to arguing that giant mushrooms and gloomy marshlands are "zany and different."
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on August 08, 2014, 08:27:11 AM
They weren't short and stocky drunkards though.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on August 08, 2014, 11:41:09 AM
Yes, they're colloquially referred to as dwarves, but the same games point out the fact that the name is a misnomer ascribed to them by ignorant humans who are going by your logic - "They live underground and make machines, therefore dwarves."  They're another variant of mer, same as the Altmer or Dunmer.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 08, 2014, 12:35:04 PM
Rushy, putting the words "zany and different" in sarcastic quotation marks is not an argument. Can you provide us with an example of a setting that you think is truly unique, and could be described as zany and different without the quotes?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 08, 2014, 06:30:36 PM
Yes, they're colloquially referred to as dwarves, but the same games point out the fact that the name is a misnomer ascribed to them by ignorant humans who are going by your logic - "They live underground and make machines, therefore dwarves."  They're another variant of mer, same as the Altmer or Dunmer.

Giving dwarves a different name is not going to magically make them not dwarves. In fact, the TvTropes listing said "these may be under different names, but still count as generic fantasy." If anything, TES simply made them a bit taller, and that's debatable, since some texts reference them as "large children with beards." No matter how hard you want it to be, an underground steampunk race of golden armored, bearded men cannot be considered anything but straight Tolkien photocopying.

Rushy, putting the words "zany and different" in sarcastic quotation marks is not an argument. Can you provide us with an example of a setting that you think is truly unique, and could be described as zany and different without the quotes?

Oh, you must have forgotten about our earlier engagement (or purposely buried the memory of you slinking away from it). There is no such thing as a truly unique setting. Anything a human mind create is based on something that already existed. This is why Saddam's argument that Oblivion is bland and generic, but that Morrowind somehow isn't, is blatantly false. They're both generic fantasy games. In fact, Oblivion is more unique in that its combat system is closer to a FPS than Morrowind's obvious D&D ripoff.

Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 08, 2014, 07:04:56 PM
Rushy, putting the words "zany and different" in sarcastic quotation marks is not an argument. Can you provide us with an example of a setting that you think is truly unique, and could be described as zany and different without the quotes?

Oh, you must have forgotten about our earlier engagement (or purposely buried the memory of you slinking away from it). There is no such thing as a truly unique setting. Anything a human mind create is based on something that already existed. This is why Saddam's argument that Oblivion is bland and generic, but that Morrowind somehow isn't, is blatantly false. They're both generic fantasy games. In fact, Oblivion is more unique in that its combat system is closer to a FPS than Morrowind's obvious D&D ripoff.

I accept your autistic definition of the word unique, but it isn't relative to the discussion. We're talking about relative uniqueness, which you seem to understand when you say "Oblivion is more unique". First, you say that uniqueness doesn't real, therefore Morrowind and Oblivion are equally generic. Rock solid logic thus far. Next, you say that Oblivion is actually more unique because of its combat system. That seems like a contradiction.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 08, 2014, 07:22:15 PM
Rushy, putting the words "zany and different" in sarcastic quotation marks is not an argument. Can you provide us with an example of a setting that you think is truly unique, and could be described as zany and different without the quotes?

Oh, you must have forgotten about our earlier engagement (or purposely buried the memory of you slinking away from it). There is no such thing as a truly unique setting. Anything a human mind create is based on something that already existed. This is why Saddam's argument that Oblivion is bland and generic, but that Morrowind somehow isn't, is blatantly false. They're both generic fantasy games. In fact, Oblivion is more unique in that its combat system is closer to a FPS than Morrowind's obvious D&D ripoff.

I accept your autistic definition of the word unique, but it isn't relative to the discussion. We're talking about relative uniqueness, which you seem to understand when you say "Oblivion is more unique". First, you say that uniqueness doesn't real, therefore Morrowind and Oblivion are equally generic. Rock solid logic thus far. Next, you say that Oblivion is actually more unique because of its combat system. That seems like a contradiction.

Note the difference between the terms "truly unique" and "unique." Think of it as "perfection," where you can get closer, but never really there. Are you done playing word games now?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Blanko on August 08, 2014, 07:38:09 PM
In fact, Oblivion is more unique in that its combat system is closer to a FPS than Morrowind's obvious D&D ripoff.

How is that more unique
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 08, 2014, 07:40:42 PM
In fact, Oblivion is more unique in that its combat system is closer to a FPS than Morrowind's obvious D&D ripoff.

How is that more unique

Many fantasy games maintain a dice-roll or turn based mechanic.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Blanko on August 08, 2014, 08:00:35 PM
Yes, but Morrowind also has the same "FPS" mechanics as Oblivion does

I'd think that a combination of FPS and dice rolls is more unique than plain FPS
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 08, 2014, 08:11:35 PM
I thought we were talking about setting, not game mechanics. Combat is shitty in every ES game. Rushy, can you give us an example of a fictional setting that is relatively unique?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost of V on August 08, 2014, 08:19:01 PM
Alex, do you agree that combat in Morrowind is shitty?

I think Oblivion improved on the combat mechanics, making it more suitable for the overall feel of the ES series since it is easily way more forgiveable than Morrowind's dice rolls. This in turn helps promote adventuring (which I feel is the main focus of the games), especially early on since you don't die all the time because of misses. It's a lot less discouraging.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 08, 2014, 08:25:47 PM
Alex, do you agree that combat in Morrowind is shitty?

Yes. I don't mind that the chance to hit is based on dice rolls, but the mechanics of pure melee or ranged combat just aren't that interesting. They're merely functional.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Blanko on August 08, 2014, 08:27:35 PM
Nothing wrong with an effective casual filter :^)
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost of V on August 08, 2014, 08:44:25 PM
Nothing wrong with an effective casual filter :^)
There's a difference between "casual filters" and making the game more accessible.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Blanko on August 08, 2014, 09:00:30 PM
Accessibility doesn't mean removing game mechanics, though. In any case, Oblivion might be more "accessible", but it's certainly not better thought out - it's probably one of the few cases in which character progression makes you relatively weaker instead of stronger.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost of V on August 08, 2014, 09:01:01 PM
Accessibility doesn't mean removing game mechanics, though. In any case, Oblivion might be more "accessible", but it's certainly not better thought out - it's probably one of the few cases in which character progression makes you relatively weaker instead of stronger.

Perhaps, but that doesn't have much to do with combat mechanics.

Personally, I like the fact that the higher level I am the stronger the enemies are. That makes sense to me. Slaying a dremora lord in one hit would be immersion-breaking.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 08, 2014, 10:07:51 PM
Yes, but Morrowind also has the same "FPS" mechanics as Oblivion does

No, it doesn't. When I shoot a bow in Oblivion or Skyrim, the game doesn't dice-roll whether the arrow hit or not. Either you aimed well enough to hit your target or you didn't. Skill level only affects damage, not hit or miss.

I'd think that a combination of FPS and dice rolls is more unique than plain FPS

I didn't know we were talking about things that are uniquely bad about Morrowind.

I thought we were talking about setting, not game mechanics. Combat is shitty in every ES game. Rushy, can you give us an example of a fictional setting that is relatively unique?

Are you just going to ask the same question until the answer is different? I might as well be trying to discuss Morrowind with a graffiti'd brick wall.




Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Blanko on August 08, 2014, 10:10:30 PM
welp

Not doing this shit
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Vindictus on August 08, 2014, 10:43:08 PM
welp

Not doing this shit

(http://media.giphy.com/media/jxqSgd1TtHu4U/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Blanko on August 08, 2014, 10:47:58 PM
welp

Not doing this shit

(http://media.giphy.com/media/jxqSgd1TtHu4U/giphy.gif)

I see you're into /r/shittytumblrgifs
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Vindictus on August 08, 2014, 10:51:40 PM
Nope, that one is courtesy of google and that average Stiller movie.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 09, 2014, 12:37:22 AM
I thought we were talking about setting, not game mechanics. Combat is shitty in every ES game. Rushy, can you give us an example of a fictional setting that is relatively unique?

Are you just going to ask the same question until the answer is different? I might as well be trying to discuss Morrowind with a graffiti'd brick wall.

That was the first time I asked that question. I changed the question so that you would be more comfortable with the phrasing. Since absolutele uniqueness is impossible, I'm now asking about relative uniqueness. I ask because I'm curious about your perception of uniqueness in fiction.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on August 09, 2014, 12:48:12 AM
Brütal Legend?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 09, 2014, 02:09:29 AM
That was the first time I asked that question. I changed the question so that you would be more comfortable with the phrasing. Since absolutele uniqueness is impossible, I'm now asking about relative uniqueness. I ask because I'm curious about your perception of uniqueness in fiction.

That isn't relevant. The original observation by Saddam is that Oblivion is a generic fantasy game, but Morrowind is not. I have showed that the setting of both games is generic, by listing generic elements and commenting on their appearance in Morrowind (and Oblivion). If you're interested in quantifying "uniqueness" I suggest starting another thread where I'm sure lots of other like-minded people will come to a fruitful discussion with you.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 09, 2014, 02:13:03 AM
Why won't you answer the question? You may as well just answer it. I'm going to respond the same way no matter what answer you give. It will be something like

>thinks Morrowind is generic
>thinks [Psychonauts or whatever] is unique
>uwotm8.ppt
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 09, 2014, 02:15:29 AM
Why won't you answer the question? You may as well just answer it. I'm going to respond the same way no matter what answer you give. It will be something like

>thinks Morrowind is generic
>thinks [Psychonauts or whatever] is unique
>uwotm8.ppt

If you're looking for verification for your love of an overly abundant generic fantasy game by comparing it to Psychonauts, then I'm afraid you've come to the wrong place. You should start that thread I suggested earlier.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 09, 2014, 02:18:11 AM
I think you misunderstood.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on August 09, 2014, 02:18:54 AM
Have it your way, Rushy.  Morrowind is less generic than Oblivion, in many very distinctive ways.  There. ::)
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost of V on August 09, 2014, 02:25:39 AM
That's not the real problem with Morrowind. Cliff racers are.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 09, 2014, 02:26:53 AM
Have it your way, Rushy.  Morrowind is less generic than Oblivion, in many very distinctive ways.  There. ::)

Morrowind is much more generic than Oblivion.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on August 09, 2014, 02:39:52 AM
I disagree.  Most fantasy looks just like Oblivion and almost nothing like Morrowind.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on August 09, 2014, 03:40:15 AM
Shitload of trolling ITT.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 09, 2014, 03:47:43 AM
I disagree.  Most fantasy looks just like Oblivion and almost nothing like Morrowind.

That's a completely different statement. It is, however, still wrong.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on August 09, 2014, 03:59:41 AM
Explain how this:
(http://i.imgur.com/ywh0upv.jpg?1)

looks less generic than this:
(http://i.imgur.com/heuG0Ig.jpg)
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost of V on August 09, 2014, 05:39:19 AM
Morrowind's landscapes were obviously inspired by Mario. Mario has been around since the 80s. Not very original, imo.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 09, 2014, 06:44:51 AM
Explain how this:
(http://i.imgur.com/ywh0upv.jpg?1)

looks less generic than this:
(http://i.imgur.com/heuG0Ig.jpg)

Sorry, but those both look like generic fantasy landscapes to me. Explain what is so unique about one or the other?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Fortuna on August 09, 2014, 10:23:35 AM
Sorry, but those both look like generic fantasy landscapes to me. Explain what is so unique about one or the other?

The top image looks like landscape I can see by walking for about 10 minutes. The bottom one has mushroom trees. Stop being such a neandertard.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Blanko on August 09, 2014, 10:24:12 AM
Explain what is so unique about one or the other?

But you're the one making that claim.

Morrowind is much more generic than Oblivion.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost Spaghetti on August 09, 2014, 01:06:26 PM
In fairness to Oblivion, it might have been fairly generic, but it was very, very pretty.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 09, 2014, 01:31:51 PM
The top image looks like landscape I can see by walking for about 10 minutes. The bottom one has mushroom trees. Stop being such a neandertard.

They're both generic for a fantasy setting. What you do or don't see walking for 10 minutes is irrelevant. Also, I could introduce you to some things that might or might not result in giant mushroom trees while you're walking, your mileage may vary.

Explain what is so unique about one or the other?

But you're the one making that claim.

Morrowind is much more generic than Oblivion.

Yes.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on August 09, 2014, 03:54:11 PM
If anything, TES simply made them a bit taller, and that's debatable, since some texts reference them as "large children with beards." No matter how hard you want it to be, an underground steampunk race of golden armored, bearded men cannot be considered anything but straight Tolkien photocopying.

No.  That description came from this book, which is almost certainly (and intentionally on Bethesda's part) incorrect.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Herbane%27s_Bestiary:_Automatons

This guy is just an adventurer who fought the automatons.  He's not a scholar or researcher, and as he clearly admits, his knowledge of the "Dwarves" comes from folk tales passed around when he was a child.  There's no comparison between his account and the wiser heads who have actually studied the mysterious vanished race, and have all explained that the Dwemer were, in fact, elves.  Besides, Dwarven armor fits normal-sized people.  It clearly wasn't made for anyone small.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Lemon on August 09, 2014, 05:04:58 PM
Saddam Hussein
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 09, 2014, 05:09:52 PM
Rushy, can you give us an example of a fictional setting that is relatively unique?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Blanko on August 09, 2014, 05:13:45 PM
Oblivion is unique because it's an FPS
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on August 09, 2014, 05:47:40 PM
The only other fantasy world I can think of that looks similar to Morrowind is Draenor in the Warcraft franchise. Cyrodiil on th ether hand looks like every other high-fantasy world.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost of V on August 09, 2014, 05:50:22 PM
The only other fantasy world I can think of that looks similar to Morrowind is Draenor in the Warcraft franchise. Cyrodiil on th ether hand looks like every other high-fantasy world.

I don't see why this is a problem though. Cyrodil looks like that lore-wise. Just how Skyrim looks like a fucking mess.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Blanko on August 09, 2014, 05:55:40 PM
Cyrodil looks like that lore-wise.

Yeah, after its actual lore appearance was retconned. And then retconned again.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 09, 2014, 05:56:03 PM
Cyrodil looks like that lore-wise. Just how Skyrim looks like a fucking mess.

Actually, the lore that was available to us at the time of Oblivion's release described Cyrodiil very differently. Now we have an awkward retcon. How is Skyrim a mess?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost of V on August 09, 2014, 05:56:36 PM
Cyrodil looks like that lore-wise.

Yeah, after its actual lore appearance was retconned. And then retconned again.

What was Cyrodil supposed to look like originally?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 09, 2014, 05:58:04 PM
It was mostly a very dense tropical jungle.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost of V on August 09, 2014, 06:02:24 PM
It mostly a very dense tropical jungle.

That's not particularly original either. They probably changed it because it was too similar to the descriptions of Valenwood and Elsweyr.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 09, 2014, 06:24:22 PM
No.  That description came from this book, which is almost certainly (and intentionally on Bethesda's part) incorrect.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Herbane%27s_Bestiary:_Automatons

This guy is just an adventurer who fought the automatons.  He's not a scholar or researcher, and as he clearly admits, his knowledge of the "Dwarves" comes from folk tales passed around when he was a child.  There's no comparison between his account and the wiser heads who have actually studied the mysterious vanished race, and have all explained that the Dwemer were, in fact, elves.  Besides, Dwarven armor fits normal-sized people.  It clearly wasn't made for anyone small.

Normal sized Dwarven armor is manufactured by normal-sized people out of dwarven metal. Also, dwarven armor. dwarven metal. It's called that, because surprisingly enough, the dwemer are dwarves. If anything their association with elves is the myth, because as the Falmer learned, dwarves hate elves.

Rushy, can you give us an example of a fictional setting that is relatively unique?

Relative to what?

It mostly a very dense tropical jungle.

No, it isn't. Source: played Oblivion.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Fortuna on August 09, 2014, 06:35:52 PM
ITT: Irushwithscvs can't into video games.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on August 09, 2014, 06:44:23 PM
The Dwemer were no shorter than Humans or the Chimer.

Here's a Dwemer ghost. Even though he's standing slightly hunched over and with bent knees, he's still taller than the Bosmer next to him. Bosmers are short yes, but not as short as typical Dwarves.
(http://i.imgur.com/b61AkMR.png)
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost of V on August 09, 2014, 06:54:07 PM
What happened to the Dwemer? Did they become Falmer? Or is there still no concrete explanation?

I remember reading something in one of the games that implied that the Dwemer ascended to a new plane of existence, or something. Or maybe they pissed off a god and it snapped them out of existence.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Vongeo on August 09, 2014, 06:54:49 PM
What happened to the Dwemer? Did they become Falmer? Or is there still no concrete explanation?
Azure got mad that they looked at her under bits and murdered them all.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Blanko on August 09, 2014, 07:07:02 PM
What happened to the Dwemer? Did they become Falmer? Or is there still no concrete explanation?

I remember reading something in one of the games that implied that the Dwemer ascended to a new plane of existence, or something. Or maybe they pissed off a god and it snapped them out of existence.

It's closer to the latter one.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on August 09, 2014, 07:12:10 PM
Falmers were always Falmers. Also known as Snow Elves.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Snupes on August 09, 2014, 07:26:45 PM
Falmers were always Falmers. Also known as Snow Elves.

I thought Falmer were descended from Snow Elves when the Snow Elves were driven underground?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on August 09, 2014, 08:01:22 PM
Snow Elves are just another name for Falmer. Like how Dark Elves is another name for Dunmer.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost of V on August 09, 2014, 08:03:08 PM
Snow Elves are just another name for Falmer. Like how Dark Elves is another name for Dunmer.

No. While I think Snow Elves were originally called Flamer, they were very different from the Falmer shown in Skyrim. Falmer are the degenerate offspring of the Snow Elves. Snupes is correct.

Centuries of Dwemer slavery underground turned Snow Elves into Falmer. True Snow Elves, even though originally called Flamer, prefer the term Snow Elves over Falmer because they are distinctly different now.

Source. (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Falmer)
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on August 09, 2014, 08:13:01 PM
What makes you think I don't know this?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost of V on August 09, 2014, 08:15:25 PM
It seemed like you were implying that the Snow Elves and Falmer from Skyrim are the same, when they are not. Maybe I misunderstood.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 09, 2014, 08:23:40 PM
The Dwemer were no shorter than Humans or the Chimer.

Here's a Dwemer ghost. Even though he's standing slightly hunched over and with bent knees, he's still taller than the Bosmer next to him. Bosmers are short yes, but not as short as typical Dwarves.

I don't recall saying anything about the height of Dwarves. Not sure why you think this is relevant.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on August 09, 2014, 08:25:58 PM
Sorry. What I ment to say was:
Falmers were Falmers.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on August 09, 2014, 08:26:37 PM
The Dwemer were no shorter than Humans or the Chimer.

Here's a Dwemer ghost. Even though he's standing slightly hunched over and with bent knees, he's still taller than the Bosmer next to him. Bosmers are short yes, but not as short as typical Dwarves.

I don't recall saying anything about the height of Dwarves. Not sure why you think this is relevant.

When are Dwarves ever tall?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost of V on August 09, 2014, 08:26:38 PM
Sorry. What I ment to say was:
Falmers were Falmers.

Everything is so clear now.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on August 09, 2014, 08:27:03 PM
Sorry. What I ment to say was:
Falmers were Falmers.

Everything is so clear now.
I hope so.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 09, 2014, 08:29:26 PM
When are Dwarves ever tall?

In TES, apparently. I'm still waiting for you to unveil how this is all relevant to my discussion with Saddam, if you even plan to do so.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Blanko on August 09, 2014, 08:29:47 PM
When are Dwarves ever tall?

In TES, apparently. I'm still waiting for you to unveil how this is all relevant to my discussion with Saddam, if you even plan to do so.

But TES doesn't have dwarves.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 09, 2014, 08:30:39 PM
But TES doesn't have dwarves.

Incorrect.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost of V on August 09, 2014, 08:32:51 PM
Dwemer were obviously inspired by dwarves. The giants in ES lore even called them dwarves. Just because they change the name from "dwarf" to "dwemer" doesn't change the fact that 90% of their existence is comprised of dwarf stereotypes.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on August 09, 2014, 08:34:52 PM
The Dwemer were obviously remnants of the early Aldmer who came from Aldmeris and first settled Summerset Isles and later migrated to Cyrodiil. They were most definitely Mer/Elves.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Blanko on August 09, 2014, 08:35:50 PM
Dwemer were obviously inspired by dwarves. The giants in ES lore even called them dwarves. Just because they change the name from "dwarf" to "dwemer" doesn't change the fact that 90% of their existence is comprised of dwarf stereotypes.

But we've just established that they're literally not dwarves.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost of V on August 09, 2014, 08:38:43 PM
Dwemer were obviously inspired by dwarves. The giants in ES lore even called them dwarves. Just because they change the name from "dwarf" to "dwemer" doesn't change the fact that 90% of their existence is comprised of dwarf stereotypes.

But we've just established that they're literally not dwarves.

In name and background lore only. Who cares if they are mer? They are based on fucking dwarves. Underground? Check. Technologically advanced? Check. Beards? Check. Pompous better than other races attitude? Check.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 09, 2014, 08:39:12 PM
The Dwemer were obviously remnants of the early Aldmer who came from Aldmeris and first settled Summerset Isles and later migrated to northern Cyrodiil. They were most definitely Mer/Elves.

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.


Sorry, but renaming something doesn't change what it is. I can't reinvent the wheel simply by renaming it. Unless, you think I can. I would gladly sell you a new wooden "goaroundandaround" for $2000.

But we've just established that they're literally not dwarves.

Really? Where?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Blanko on August 09, 2014, 08:40:49 PM
Dwemer were obviously inspired by dwarves. The giants in ES lore even called them dwarves. Just because they change the name from "dwarf" to "dwemer" doesn't change the fact that 90% of their existence is comprised of dwarf stereotypes.

But we've just established that they're literally not dwarves.

In name and background lore only. Who cares if they are mer? They are based on fucking dwarves. Underground? Check. Technologically advanced? Check. Beards? Check. Pompous better than other races attitude? Check.

Based on that, it seems they're stereotypically closer to humans more than anything.

Also, what do you mean by underground? The vast majority of Dwemer settlements are above ground level.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on August 09, 2014, 08:41:16 PM
The fucking lore has fucking established that the fucking Dwemers were fucking Elves.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 09, 2014, 08:43:26 PM
Based on that, it seems they're stereotypically closer to humans more than anything.

That's probably because dwarves are based on Norse mythology, which is based on humans.

The fucking lore has fucking established that the fucking Dwemers were fucking Elves.

No, it definitely calls them dwarves all the time. Even their armor is called "dwarven armor." Their attribution to elves is most likely an error by countless cultures that came after them, since they've been dead for so long.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on August 09, 2014, 08:45:54 PM
Trolling confirmed.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 09, 2014, 08:46:39 PM
welp

Not doing this shit
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Blanko on August 09, 2014, 08:49:46 PM
Also, technological advancedness and pompousness are just as much elven stereotypes as dwarven ones, if not more so. So why is it so hard to accept that Dwemer are in fact elves when everything in the games suggest that they are? Or is anything with a beard a dwarf now?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost of V on August 09, 2014, 08:53:28 PM
I think there is some sort of double standard going on here. Some of you seem to think that Oblivion is generic because of its setting, which many of you have likened to Tolkien's Middle-Earth. However, Oblivion obviously does not take place in Middle-Earth.

Now, when we use the same argument against you: "Dwemer share many similarities with Dwarves, therefore they are a generic archetype". Your tone changes completely. Now, somehow it's forgivable that they based Dwemer on Dwarves and it's not generic at all. Why is that given that they share so many similarities?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 09, 2014, 08:53:58 PM
Also, technological advancedness and pompousness are just as much elven stereotypes as dwarven ones, if not more so. So why is it so hard to accept that Dwemer are in fact elves when everything in the games suggest that they are? Or is everything with a beard a dwarf now?

Elves are stereotypically stuck in medieval stasis, as opposed to dwarves which are usually more advanced than the surrounding cultures. TES matches up to both of these stereotypes perfectly. Since Saddam seems to prefer TvTropes to support his arguments I'll provide an additional link for Elves: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OurElvesAreBetter

They have a dwarf link, too, which other than being short (debatable, no dwemer are actually alive to prove their height) they match the Dwemer perfectly.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on August 09, 2014, 08:55:45 PM
There's like one guy alive who wants to be called a "Snow Elf."  It's not incorrect to say that Falmer is another term for Snow Elf.  It's just that the historical Falmer were far more civilized and less savage than their modern descendants.

The discussion moved on from this point rather quickly.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 09, 2014, 08:57:22 PM
There's like one guy alive who wants to be called a "Snow Elf."  It's not incorrect to say that Falmer is another term for Snow Elf.  It's just that the historical Falmer were far more civilized and less savage than their modern descendants.

The discussion moved on from this point rather quickly.

The discussion moved on because snow elves are boring.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost of V on August 09, 2014, 09:03:22 PM
There's like one guy alive who wants to be called a "Snow Elf."  It's not incorrect to say that Falmer is another term for Snow Elf.  It's just that the historical Falmer were far more civilized and less savage than their modern descendants.

The discussion moved on from this point rather quickly.

Falmer from Skyrim are significantly different biologically than true Falmer. They are almost two completely different races.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Blanko on August 09, 2014, 09:04:55 PM
(debatable, no dwemer are actually alive to prove their height)

Incorrect.

I think there is some sort of double standard going on here. Some of you seem to think that Oblivion is generic because of its setting, which many of you have likened to Tolkien's Middle-Earth. However, Oblivion obviously does not take place in Middle-Earth.

Some? I think Saddam said that, who is not in this conversation.

Quote
Now, when we use the same argument against you: "Dwemer share many similarities with Dwarves, therefore they are a generic archetype". Your tone changes completely. Now, somehow it's forgivable that they based Dwemer on Dwarves and it's not generic at all. Why is that given that they share so many similarities?

I don't care how generic it is, I'm just pointing out that a lot of the things you're trying to pass off as similarities are simply incorrect. The things you have left are effectively based on Aldmer rather than dwarves, which would make perfect sense considering they're descendants of Aldmer.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost of V on August 09, 2014, 09:30:01 PM
Saying we are incorrect doesn't make us incorrect. The Dwemer share many similarties with common dwarves in literature/games/whatever.


The Dwemer were masters of crafting and smith-work. They even created an Aetherium Forge, a highly advanced smithing forge to... you guessed it, forge weapons and armor! The Dwemer mainly focused on metallurgy, the study of the physical and chemical elements of metal, just like Dwarves. Because of this, they were able to create their own distinctive form of metal which was easily mistaken for bronze.. bronze being a common Dwarf motif as well. And yes, many Dwemer did in fact live underground. Not all of them, however.

Also, from this concept art... it looks pretty evident that they were intially based on dwarves. There is nothing to compare them to in this picture, but they look anatomically shorter than average & have beards. They are also pictured with weapons and shields that they presumably made themselves.

(http://i.imgur.com/AdCfl0W.jpg)


Morrowind's opening sequence starts in 16 Last Seed, 427, 10 AM. The dwarves disapeared in 1E 700. Yagrum Bagarn, the last dwemer in existence (from Morrowind), has been alive since the dissapearence of the dwarves, making him very very old. Guess what Tolkien race has a very long lifespan as well? Yep, dwarves.


The biggest difference between the two (Dwarves & Dwemer) is that Dwemer were very interested in science and magic, whereas Dwarves were not.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on August 09, 2014, 09:32:49 PM
The biggest different between the two (Dwarves & Dwemer) is that Dwemer were very interested in science and magic, whereas Dwarves were not.
You forgot the part where Dwemer are Elves, and Dwarves are not. I'd say that's the absloute biggest difference.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost of V on August 09, 2014, 09:35:03 PM
The biggest different between the two (Dwarves & Dwemer) is that Dwemer were very interested in science and magic, whereas Dwarves were not.
You forgot the part where Dwemer are Elves, and Dwarves are not.

That is irrelevant. Like Rushy said, just because you call them something different does not change the fact that they were obviously inspired by dwarves. That's all I'm trying to get across here.


Dwemer were inspired by Dwarves. Reread the thread if you don't understand the similarities.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 09, 2014, 09:36:25 PM
You forgot the part where Dwemer are Elves, and Dwarves are not. I'd say that's the absloute biggest difference.

I see, the old "if I say it over and over again, it will magically become true" style. Sadly, no. The Dwemer are dwarves, which is why the game calls them dwarves. As Saddam has pointed out, we can't really trust in-game books and lore, because Bethesda could be making them wrong on purpose. However, we have meta-data, the in-game menus and item names. This meta-data calls them dwarves. Therefore, the truth is that they're dwarves which are mistaken for elves, not the opposite.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 09, 2014, 09:38:58 PM
Rushy, can you give us an example of a fictional setting that is relatively unique?

Relative to what?

Relative to other fictional settings. Obviously you're able to form opinions regarding what is and isn't generic, so I'd like to hear some examples of settings that aren't generic.

I think there is some sort of double standard going on here. Some of you seem to think that Oblivion is generic because of its setting, which many of you have likened to Tolkien's Middle-Earth. However, Oblivion obviously does not take place in Middle-Earth.

Now, when we use the same argument against you: "Dwemer share many similarities with Dwarves, therefore they are a generic archetype". Your tone changes completely. Now, somehow it's forgivable that they based Dwemer on Dwarves and it's not generic at all. Why is that given that they share so many similarities?

I won't deny that the Dwemer are inspired in part by Tolkein's dwarfs, however, Dwemer are only a small part of Morrowind's setting. Nearly everything about Oblivion is generic. The landscape, the architecture, the fire and brimstone antagonist, etc. There's plenty of interesting stuff, but almost none of it is on the surface. That isn't necessarily a bad thing.

As for Dwemer being short: just play Morrowind. You see Dwemer ghosts and statues of Dwemer. Their height and proportions are nearly identical to that of the average Dunmer.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Blanko on August 09, 2014, 09:40:05 PM
Morrowind's opening sequence starts in 16 Last Seed, 427, 10 AM. The dwarves disapeared in 1E 700. Yagrum Bagarn, the last dwemer in existence (from Morrowind), has been alive since the dissapearence of the dwarves, making him very very old.

He has corprus, so that doesn't say anything about the possible lifespan of Dwemer.

Quote
Guess what Tolkien race has a very long lifespan as well? Yep, dwarves.

No, elves do.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost of V on August 09, 2014, 09:44:57 PM
Morrowind's opening sequence starts in 16 Last Seed, 427, 10 AM. The dwarves disapeared in 1E 700. Yagrum Bagarn, the last dwemer in existence (from Morrowind), has been alive since the dissapearence of the dwarves, making him very very old.

He has corprus, so that doesn't say anything about the possible lifespan of Dwemer.

Quote
Guess what Tolkien race has a very long lifespan as well? Yep, dwarves.

No, elves do.

Tolkien Dwarves live to be 200+ years old. That's pretty long compared to some races.


And good point about the corprus, I forgot about that.
Still, the other similarities still stand... and you conveniently ignored them, I see.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 09, 2014, 09:45:13 PM
Relative to other fictional settings. Obviously you're able to form opinions regarding what is and isn't generic, so I'd like to hear some examples of settings that aren't generic.

They're all generic. I'm not sure you understand the argument here.


I won't deny that the Dwemer are inspired in part by Tolkein's dwarfs, however, Dwemer are only a small part of Morrowind's setting. Nearly everything about Oblivion is generic. The landscape, the architecture, the fire and brimstone antagonist, etc. There's plenty of interesting stuff, but almost none of it is on the surface. That isn't necessarily a bad thing.

The Dwemer conversation is only a small part of Morrowind being generic, but one that some here seem to have the biggest beef with. We could talk about the "unique giant mushroom land" more if you like.

As for Dwemer being short: just play Morrowind. You see Dwemer ghosts and statues of Dwemer. Their height and proportions are nearly identical to that of the average Dunmer.

The ghosts could be holographs and the statues could be idolized. You're only seeing what the Dwemer wanted you to see.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Blanko on August 09, 2014, 09:48:30 PM
Morrowind's opening sequence starts in 16 Last Seed, 427, 10 AM. The dwarves disapeared in 1E 700. Yagrum Bagarn, the last dwemer in existence (from Morrowind), has been alive since the dissapearence of the dwarves, making him very very old.

He has corprus, so that doesn't say anything about the possible lifespan of Dwemer.

Quote
Guess what Tolkien race has a very long lifespan as well? Yep, dwarves.

No, elves do.

Tolkien Dwarves live to be 200+ years old. That's pretty long compared to some races.

Still pretty fucking short compared to elves, no? If you're trying to make a point about lifespan, then surely Yagrum's would indicate being more akin to Tolkien's elves rather than dwarves. But of course, the fact that he has corprus nullifies that whole point.

Quote
Still, the other similarities still stand... and you conveniently ignored him, I see.

Like I said, I'm just refuting the points that are incorrect.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 09, 2014, 09:49:14 PM
Relative to other fictional settings. Obviously you're able to form opinions regarding what is and isn't generic, so I'd like to hear some examples of settings that aren't generic.

They're all generic. I'm not sure you understand the argument here.

You've already said that Morrowind is more generic than Oblivion, so there's obviously some sort of scale that's more detailed than "they're all generic". I'll draw you a picture:

less generic <----------------Oblivion-------Morrowind----> more generic

I'm asking you what sort of settings you would place towards the left side.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost of V on August 09, 2014, 09:50:16 PM
Morrowind's opening sequence starts in 16 Last Seed, 427, 10 AM. The dwarves disapeared in 1E 700. Yagrum Bagarn, the last dwemer in existence (from Morrowind), has been alive since the dissapearence of the dwarves, making him very very old.

He has corprus, so that doesn't say anything about the possible lifespan of Dwemer.

Quote
Guess what Tolkien race has a very long lifespan as well? Yep, dwarves.

No, elves do.

Tolkien Dwarves live to be 200+ years old. That's pretty long compared to some races.

Still pretty fucking short compared to elves, no? If you're trying to make a point about lifespan, then surely Yagrum's would indicate being more akin to Tolkien's elves rather than dwarves. But of course, the fact that he has corprus nullifies that whole point.

Quote
Still, the other similarities still stand... and you conveniently ignored him, I see.

Like I said, I'm just refuting the points that are incorrect.

No one is talking about elves besides you. Corprus makes that entire argument irrelevant anyways, so that's a non-point.

Regardless, dwemer share more similarities with dwarves than they do with elves. That's abundantly clear.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Blanko on August 09, 2014, 09:55:39 PM
No one is talking about elves besides you.

Beardo is as well, and it's pretty important to talk about elves considering the Dwemer are elves.

Quote
Regardless, dwemer share more similarities with dwarves than they do with elves. That's abundantly clear.

I disagree. They're inspired by dwarves, sure, but for the most part their lore is based on that of the Aldmer.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost of V on August 09, 2014, 09:58:45 PM
They're inspired by dwarves

I'm done here.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 09, 2014, 09:59:07 PM
If we're going to draw superficial connections between the Dwemer and other civilizations, we may as well be accurate. Dwemer are inspired more by ancient Mesopotamia than Tolkein.

(http://www.odeany.us/history-costume/images/8705_53_22-ancient-mesopotamia-clothing-pictures.jpg)

Notice the clothing, headdress, and braided beards.

(http://images.uesp.net/d/dc/TR-creature-Radac_Stungnthumz.jpg)

Ancient Mesopotamians are considered the progenitors of modern society. They were very advanced for their time. Sound familiar?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Blanko on August 09, 2014, 10:00:18 PM
They're inspired by dwarves

I'm done here.

ok
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 09, 2014, 11:55:04 PM
less generic <----------------Oblivion-------Morrowind----> more generic

I'm asking you what sort of settings you would place towards the left side.

When I made the comment that Oblivion is less generic than Morrowind, I wasn't referring to their settings. Their settings are equally generic fantasy realms.

If we're going to draw superficial connections between the Dwemer and other civilizations, we may as well be accurate. Dwemer are inspired more by ancient Mesopotamia than Tolkein.

Notice the clothing, headdress, and braided beards.

Ancient Mesopotamians are considered the progenitors of modern society. They were very advanced for their time. Sound familiar?

Funny, history isn't my specialty, but I can't quite recall Mesopotamians having steampunk architecture and technology.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on August 09, 2014, 11:59:12 PM
Isn't it usually Gnomes who's got all the steampunk crap going on rather than Dwarves?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost of V on August 10, 2014, 12:00:14 AM
Isn't it usually Gnomes who's got all the steampunk crap going on rather than Dwarves?

In Warcraft.


I can't really think of any other examples.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Vindictus on August 10, 2014, 12:04:17 AM
Dwarves and Gnomes are both steampunky in Warcraft.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 10, 2014, 12:07:00 AM
Isn't it usually Gnomes who's got all the steampunk crap going on rather than Dwarves?

Early-era steampunk technology is a dwarf stereotype. As far as I know only WoW has given such things to gnomes.

Most fantasy games give dwarves the higher tech because an underground race (especially one that is fairly small) doesn't make sense if they don't have heavy machinery to do most of the work.

In Warcraft.
Dwarves and Gnomes are both steampunky in Warcraft.

Please say "World of Warcraft" or "WoW"

Warcraft was a very good series before that god awful lore-munching monstrosity fucked it all up, although I think it all went downhill with Warcraft 3.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost of V on August 10, 2014, 12:09:14 AM
Eh, Warcraft was never good.  And like it or not, WoW is Warcraft. It's canon.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on August 10, 2014, 12:12:43 AM
Right. Maybe they just tend to stick to alchemy.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on August 10, 2014, 12:19:11 AM
Gnomes in RuneScape had some wacky technology too, but it wasn't really steampunk.  Of course, the dwarves didn't really have steampunk technology either.  It was more realistic fossil fuel-type stuff.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Vindictus on August 10, 2014, 12:20:36 AM
Isn't it usually Gnomes who's got all the steampunk crap going on rather than Dwarves?

Early-era steampunk technology is a dwarf stereotype. As far as I know only WoW has given such things to gnomes.

Most fantasy games give dwarves the higher tech because an underground race (especially one that is fairly small) doesn't make sense if they don't have heavy machinery to do most of the work.

In Warcraft.
Dwarves and Gnomes are both steampunky in Warcraft.

Please say "World of Warcraft" or "WoW"

Warcraft was a very good series before that god awful lore-munching monstrosity fucked it all up, although I think it all went downhill with Warcraft 3.

Dwarves and Gnomes were steampunky before WoW.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 10, 2014, 12:21:02 AM
Eh, Warcraft was never good.  And like it or not, WoW is Warcraft. It's canon.

Nope. nopenopenopenope

I can accept vanilla WoW being canon, maybe even Burning Crusades, but beyond that, noooope. It was all a dream made by druids. Yeah. That's good. They should use that.


You can't just bring back characters from the dead just to kill them again (Deathwing) or let a paltry group of "heroes" kill a man who is borderline god (Arthas). Doesn't make any goddamn sense dammit blizzard I hate you.

They don't give shit about their games' stories anymore. They ruined everything with StarCraft II, too. Oh, Kerrigan rules the universe now? Let's just pretend that didn't happen. Okay, guys? Cool. everything is cool


 >o<
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Blanko on August 10, 2014, 12:22:24 AM
pls no derail
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Vindictus on August 10, 2014, 12:24:00 AM
Players didn't kill Arthas, Tirion/Ashbringer did. Deathwing was never dead, he was just AFK somewhere.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 10, 2014, 12:25:12 AM
Gnomes in RuneScape had some wacky technology too, but it wasn't really steampunk.  Of course, the dwarves didn't really have steampunk technology either.  It was more realistic fossil fuel-type stuff.

The gnomes in Runescape stole most of their technology from elves. Possibly the elves just gave it to them it was never quite clear on that, at least the last time I played ten years ago.

Players didn't kill Arthas, Tirion/Ashbringer did. Deathwing was never dead, he was just AFK somewhere.

You "help" kill him, though, which is nonsense. Also, yes, Deathwing was most certainly dead. I distinctly remember murdering the shit out of him with mages in Warcraft II. Though I will admit they did bring him back once after Warcraft if I remember correctly, so I guess them doing it again isn't such a big deal. Still.  >o<
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost of V on August 10, 2014, 12:27:06 AM
Eh, Warcraft was never good.  And like it or not, WoW is Warcraft. It's canon.

Nope. nopenopenopenope

I can accept vanilla WoW being canon, maybe even Burning Crusades, but beyond that, noooope. It was all a dream made by druids. Yeah. That's good. They should use that.


You can't just bring back characters from the dead just to kill them again (Deathwing) or let a paltry group of "heroes" kill a man who is borderline god (Arthas). Doesn't make any goddamn sense dammit blizzard I hate you.

They don't give shit about their games' stories anymore. They ruined everything with StarCraft II, too. Oh, Kerrigan rules the universe now? Let's just pretend that didn't happen. Okay, guys? Cool. everything is cool


 >o<

The only game I really like by Blizzard is Diablo 2.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 10, 2014, 12:31:40 AM
less generic <----------------Oblivion-------Morrowind----> more generic

I'm asking you what sort of settings you would place towards the left side.

When I made the comment that Oblivion is less generic than Morrowind, I wasn't referring to their settings. Their settings are equally generic fantasy realms.

Are all fictional settings equally generic?

Quote
If we're going to draw superficial connections between the Dwemer and other civilizations, we may as well be accurate. Dwemer are inspired more by ancient Mesopotamia than Tolkein.

Notice the clothing, headdress, and braided beards.

Ancient Mesopotamians are considered the progenitors of modern society. They were very advanced for their time. Sound familiar?

Funny, history isn't my specialty, but I can't quite recall Mesopotamians having steampunk architecture and technology.

They also didn't become part of the golden skin of a giant robot or create animunculi. As I said, the connection is superficial, but it's more significant than the connection to Dorfs.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost of V on August 10, 2014, 12:33:51 AM
They also didn't become part of the golden skin of a giant robot or create animunculi. As I said, the connection is superficial, but it's more significant than the connection to Dorfs.

No, Alex. It's really not. Maybe appearance wise, but at least Tolkien didn't straight up copy/paste their appearance from ancient wall pix like ES did. As far as culture goes, dwemer are more similar to dwarves.

At least Tolkien had an original thought when creating his dwarves. I can't say the same thing about the dwemer.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Vindictus on August 10, 2014, 12:36:15 AM
Players didn't kill Arthas, Tirion/Ashbringer did. Deathwing was never dead, he was just AFK somewhere.

You "help" kill him, though, which is nonsense. Also, yes, Deathwing was most certainly dead. I distinctly remember murdering the shit out of him with mages in Warcraft II. Though I will admit they did bring him back once after Warcraft if I remember correctly, so I guess them doing it again isn't such a big deal. Still.  >o<

That was the retarded plot though. He let you plow through his entire army, kill all of his most powerful lieutenants and nearly defeat him just so he could kill your raid group and convert you to his most powerful champions.

And na, Deathwing has been officially alive for years before they decided to use him again in Cataclysm.

Quote
Having escaped back to Azeroth, Deathwing ended up in a fight with some of the archmagi of Dalaran and feigned defeat, falling into the sea, where most of the council assumed at the time that he died. He was not dead, however, and he took a human guise, pretending to be a heroic noble named Lord Prestor in an effort to be declared king of Alterac, where he could manipulate the Alliance from within.

That was the official lore stance since pre-WoW.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 10, 2014, 12:37:14 AM
They also didn't become part of the golden skin of a giant robot or create animunculi. As I said, the connection is superficial, but it's more significant than the connection to Dorfs.

No, Alex. It's really not. Maybe appearance wise, but dwarves were no doubt inspired by ancient Mesopotamia to some extent as well (and Tolkien didn't straight up copy/paste their appearance from ancient wall pix like ES did). As far as culture goes, dwemer are more similar to dwarves.

Your logical argument has changed my mind.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost of V on August 10, 2014, 12:38:04 AM
They also didn't become part of the golden skin of a giant robot or create animunculi. As I said, the connection is superficial, but it's more significant than the connection to Dorfs.

No, Alex. It's really not. Maybe appearance wise, but dwarves were no doubt inspired by ancient Mesopotamia to some extent as well (and Tolkien didn't straight up copy/paste their appearance from ancient wall pix like ES did). As far as culture goes, dwemer are more similar to dwarves.

Your logical argument has changed my mind.

My post has significantly changed since. I took out the entire part about Mesopotamia, because dwarves were obviously based on nordic mythology.


But the logical argument has already been presented many times. We've given you the similarities. Deny them if you will.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 10, 2014, 12:40:46 AM
I'm not denying any of the similarities, other than the claim about height.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost of V on August 10, 2014, 12:42:25 AM
I'm not denying any of the similarities, other than the claim about height.

I honestly don't know how tall they are. Do you know anything about dwemer women? What do they look like?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 10, 2014, 12:47:21 AM
Play Morrowind and fight one of their ghosts, then. I don't think a Dwemer woman has ever been shown.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 10, 2014, 12:48:41 AM
Are all fictional settings equally generic?

As soon as I gain the almighty power of omniscience, I will let you know if they're all equally generic.

it's more significant than the connection to Dorfs.

No... it really isn't. I mean, at this point, you've already been presented with all the evidence and lists of tropes. I can't say this is anything but denial which I hardly expected from you.

Quote
Having escaped back to Azeroth, Deathwing ended up in a fight with some of the archmagi of Dalaran and feigned defeat, falling into the sea, where most of the council assumed at the time that he died. He was not dead, however, and he took a human guise, pretending to be a heroic noble named Lord Prestor in an effort to be declared king of Alterac, where he could manipulate the Alliance from within.

That was the official lore stance since pre-WoW.

That wasn't pre-wow, though. They made that all up solely for Cataclysm.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 10, 2014, 12:49:42 AM
Are all fictional settings equally generic?

As soon as I gain the almighty power of omniscience, I will let you know if they're all equally generic.

Are all of the fictional settings that you're aware of equally generic?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost of V on August 10, 2014, 12:49:48 AM
Play Morrowind and fight one of their ghosts, then. I don't think a Dwemer woman has ever been shown.

Yep. Still don't know how tall they are.


How do I know they are not wearing pumps or something similar under their dress?

Oh, and their ghosts are officially called "Dwarven Spectres".


 ::)
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 10, 2014, 12:54:01 AM
Are all of the fictional settings that you're aware of equally generic?

Do you think I keep a list of every fantasy game I've come into contact with? I'm glad, at least, that you've accepted Morrowind is a generic fantasy game and are now simply inquiring about how generic it is.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 10, 2014, 12:57:54 AM
Are all of the fictional settings that you're aware of equally generic?

Do you think I keep a list of every fantasy game I've come into contact with? I'm glad, at least, that you've accepted Morrowind is a generic fantasy game and are now simply inquiring about how generic it is.

Why would you need a list? If you can't remember very many, just try to think of three or four fictional settings that you know of and tell me if they're all equally generic.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 10, 2014, 01:01:58 AM
Why would you need a list? If you can't remember very many, just try to think of three or four fictional settings that you know of and tell me if they're all equally generic.

Ah, I see. Here is an example of really generic scenery that I found:

(http://hdwallpapersfactory.com/wallpaper/morrowind_desktop_1440x900_hd-wallpaper-851852.jpg)

Delightfully droll marshlands with stone/woodwork houses and docks. Really, really superb generic fantasy if I do say so myself.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 10, 2014, 01:03:52 AM
Great, now we're really getting somewhere. Now think of a different fantasy setting at random. Is it more, less, or equally generic?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 10, 2014, 01:04:59 AM
Great, now we're really getting somewhere. Now think of a different fantasy setting at random. Is it more, less, or equally generic?

I am now thinking of an equally generic setting. What next?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 10, 2014, 01:06:38 AM
Continue thinking of fictional settings until you can't think of any more. When you're finished, let me know if they were all equally as generic as the first one.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 10, 2014, 01:06:56 AM
Continue thinking of fictional settings until you can't think of any more. When you're finished, let me know if they were all equally as generic as the first one.

Yes.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 10, 2014, 01:08:32 AM
They're all equally generic?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 10, 2014, 01:09:18 AM
They're all equally generic?

Yes.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 10, 2014, 01:11:21 AM
Why didn't you just say that 10 posts ago when I axed,

Are all fictional settings equally generic?

As soon as I gain the almighty power of omniscience, I will let you know if they're all equally generic.

Are all of the fictional settings that you're aware of equally generic?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 10, 2014, 01:15:00 AM
Why didn't you just say that 10 posts ago when I axed,

Well I wanted to see if you mulled over the question long enough to realize the problem.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 10, 2014, 01:19:20 AM
What's the problem?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 10, 2014, 01:22:26 AM
What's the problem?

I don't have a list.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 10, 2014, 01:24:16 AM
haha ebic dude
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 10, 2014, 01:29:24 AM
Man, that Morrowind screenshot looks terrible. That is not a good combination of mods. Here's a screenshot I took at a similar angle with my build:

(http://i.imgur.com/YpJJBQ5.jpg)
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost of V on August 10, 2014, 02:38:31 AM
You should play the game the devs wanted you to play, not some tawdry reskin. You should play Morrowind on Xbox.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on August 10, 2014, 02:51:33 AM
If the devs wanted you to play the game in a specific way, they would not have intentionally made it easy to mod.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 10, 2014, 03:16:23 AM
If the devs wanted you to play the game in a specific way, they would not have intentionally made it easy to mod.

The devs tempt you to stray on purpose. That way they can easily tell the difference between the hardcore players and the modder casuals who need "better graphics" or "more gameplay."
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Vindictus on August 10, 2014, 03:40:38 AM
Lol, modder casuals.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on August 10, 2014, 03:42:47 AM
Oh, and their ghosts are officially called "Dwarven Spectres".


 ::)

Yes, we've already established that "Dwarven" is a colloquial term for the Dwemer.

If the devs wanted you to play the game in a specific way, they would not have intentionally made it easy to mod.

The Correct Way to Play the Game
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 10, 2014, 05:14:17 AM
Yes, we've already established that "Dwarven" is a colloquial term for the Dwemer.

It is actually a technical term, considering that they were, in fact, dwarves.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on August 10, 2014, 05:25:46 AM
Prove it.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Vongeo on August 10, 2014, 06:20:46 AM
Yes, we've already established that "Dwarven" is a colloquial term for the Dwemer.

It is actually a technical term, considering that they were, in fact, dwarves.
Wieners are hotdogs, but Frankfurters ain't technical.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 10, 2014, 01:08:35 PM
Yes, we've already established that "Dwarven" is a colloquial term for the Dwemer.

It is actually a technical term, considering that they were, in fact, dwarves.

If the language used in the UI is now canon then we have a contradiction, since Dwemer armor was called just that in Morrowind. 
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 10, 2014, 03:37:46 PM
If the language used in the UI is now canon then we have a contradiction, since Dwemer armor was called just that in Morrowind.

The terms Dwemer and Dwarven are interchangeable because the Dwemer are Dwarves.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Blanko on August 10, 2014, 03:39:56 PM
epic
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on August 10, 2014, 03:44:39 PM
Maybe TESO will feature Dwemer soon, and then we'll be able to settle this issue.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 10, 2014, 03:45:44 PM
Yes. Return of the Dwarves expansion pack. Now with bonus Gandalf action figurine.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 10, 2014, 03:57:46 PM
If the language used in the UI is now canon then we have a contradiction, since Dwemer armor was called just that in Morrowind.

The terms Dwemer and Dwarven are interchangeable

Correct.

Quote
because the Dwemer are Dwarves.

Incorrect. Or should I say incorekt. They're mer. Even if you think they're similar to stereotypical dwarves, they are still elves.

Maybe TESO will feature Dwemer soon, and then we'll be able to settle this issue.

Let's hope not.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 10, 2014, 04:01:07 PM
Incorrect. Or should I say incorekt. They're mer. Even if you think they're similar to stereotypical dwarves, they are still elves.

And now we're back to "it's different because, I like, totally renamed them, so there." It's a fascinating argument because it means you have literally nothing else in your arsenal. This is what I've reduced you to.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 10, 2014, 04:02:43 PM
thatfeel.xls

<my feel when the anonymous meme team hires the internet's most epic troll to personally toll me
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 10, 2014, 04:04:48 PM
#rekt
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Vongeo on August 10, 2014, 04:28:52 PM
Maybe TESO will feature Dwemer soon, and then we'll be able to settle this issue.
There are some in the second section of the daggerfall Covenant. Everyone hates them and I think they are slaving stuff.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on August 10, 2014, 06:06:37 PM
Maybe TESO will feature Dwemer soon, and then we'll be able to settle this issue.
There are some in the second section of the daggerfall Covenant. Everyone hates them and I think they are slaving stuff.

what
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on August 10, 2014, 06:25:50 PM
Maybe TESO will feature Dwemer soon, and then we'll be able to settle this issue.
There are some in the second section of the daggerfall Covenant. Everyone hates them and I think they are slaving stuff.

what
Vongeo'd.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 10, 2014, 08:27:34 PM
Actually, I'm now learning that a lot of items in Skyrim are described as Dwemer rather than Dwarven. Dwemer dish, large Dwemer strut, Dwemer metal.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost of V on August 10, 2014, 08:27:43 PM
They're fucking dwarves, guys. C'mon.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on August 10, 2014, 08:28:34 PM
Maybe TESO will feature Dwemer soon, and then we'll be able to settle this issue.
There are some in the second section of the daggerfall Covenant. Everyone hates them and I think they are slaving stuff.

what
Vongeo'd.

Every Vongeo-ism has at least a kernel of truth to it.

Also, I want a panda expansion.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 10, 2014, 09:15:23 PM
Actually, I'm now learning that a lot of items in Skyrim are described as Dwemer rather than Dwarven. Dwemer dish, large Dwemer strut, Dwemer metal.

This is because the Dwemer are dwarves and the two terms mean the same thing.

For example, the Spanish word for "red" is "roja." Likewise, the Bethesda word for "dwarves" is "dwemer."

Also, I want a panda expansion.

Pandas in Warcraft were literally a joke. They turned a single joke into an entire expansion to pander to their Chinese subscribers (you know, the only ones left). God dammit blizzard you make me so mad.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 10, 2014, 09:36:04 PM
Actually, I'm now learning that a lot of items in Skyrim are described as Dwemer rather than Dwarven. Dwemer dish, large Dwemer strut, Dwemer metal.

This is because the Dwemer are dwarves and the two terms mean the same thing.

For example, the Spanish word for "red" is "roja." Likewise, the Bethesda word for "dwarves" is "dwemer."

They aren't Dwarves, though.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost of V on August 10, 2014, 09:37:20 PM
Actually, I'm now learning that a lot of items in Skyrim are described as Dwemer rather than Dwarven. Dwemer dish, large Dwemer strut, Dwemer metal.

This is because the Dwemer are dwarves and the two terms mean the same thing.

For example, the Spanish word for "red" is "roja." Likewise, the Bethesda word for "dwarves" is "dwemer."

They aren't Dwarves, though.

Yeah. They're mer. We know.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Blanko on August 10, 2014, 09:57:55 PM
Actually, I'm now learning that a lot of items in Skyrim are described as Dwemer rather than Dwarven. Dwemer dish, large Dwemer strut, Dwemer metal.

This is because the Dwemer are dwarves and the two terms mean the same thing.

For example, the Spanish word for "red" is "roja." Likewise, the Bethesda word for "dwarves" is "dwemer."

They aren't Dwarves, though.

Yeah. They're mer. We know.

Who's "we"?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost of V on August 10, 2014, 10:04:05 PM
Actually, I'm now learning that a lot of items in Skyrim are described as Dwemer rather than Dwarven. Dwemer dish, large Dwemer strut, Dwemer metal.

This is because the Dwemer are dwarves and the two terms mean the same thing.

For example, the Spanish word for "red" is "roja." Likewise, the Bethesda word for "dwarves" is "dwemer."

They aren't Dwarves, though.

Yeah. They're mer. We know.

Who's "we"?

Everybody in this thread.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Blanko on August 10, 2014, 10:07:22 PM
Doesn't seem like it.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 10, 2014, 11:32:00 PM
Since we know the Dwemer are dwarves, but also mer, then the logical conclusion is that the elves of TES are in fact mutant dwarves. It makes sense, dwarves do sometimes have pointy ears.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Vindictus on August 10, 2014, 11:34:36 PM
Does their unoriginality know no bounds?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 10, 2014, 11:50:48 PM
Today's adventures in Skyrim: I received a quest from an alchemist to find and return some void salts. I waited for her to turn around, grabbed the void salts off of her shelf, and gave them to her. Epic. 
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 10, 2014, 11:54:45 PM
Today's adventures in Skyrim: I received a quest from an alchemist to find and return some void salts. I waited for her to turn around, grabbed the void salts off of her shelf, and gave them to her. Epic.

You're not wrong, you're just an asshole.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 11, 2014, 12:13:03 AM
She paid me 250 septims for her own ingredient. Probably a good chunk of her life savings. Then I gazed wistfully at Red Mountain and dreamt of better videogames.

(http://i.imgur.com/uZKZz8g.jpg)
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on August 11, 2014, 12:31:42 AM
The Red Mountain erupted, Alex.  Vvardenfell is gone.  You have to accept this and move on.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 11, 2014, 12:37:14 AM
You're right. Maybe Skyrim and Solstheim can be just as cool. But, wait a minute... what's that in the distance? Mushrooms...? Mushrooms that are larger than the nice normal ones we have on Earth? I thought I was playing the legendary Elder Scrolls series, not My Little Hobbit II: My First Fantasy Starter Kit.

(http://i.imgur.com/kbgKdQo.jpg)

These actually do look a bit like fungal Hobbit holes.

(http://i.imgur.com/OI0TaJT.jpg)
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 11, 2014, 01:09:55 AM
Wow, giant versions of things that are on Earth are so original and refreshing. And elves are living in them? Oh my gosh, I can't have possibly imagined such a thing.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 11, 2014, 01:25:37 AM
Wow, giant versions of things that are on Earth are so original and refreshing. And elves are living in them? Oh my gosh, I can't have possibly imagined such a thing.

So what sort of setting would you find original and refreshing?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 11, 2014, 01:27:36 AM
So what sort of setting would you find original and refreshing?

The human mind cannot fathom an original setting.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 11, 2014, 01:30:07 AM
So what sort of setting would you find original and refreshing?

The human mind cannot fathom an original setting.

Right. Since we've already established that every setting you're familiar with is equally unoriginal, it wouldn't make any sense for you to comment on the originality of any setting. No setting is any less original than another.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on August 11, 2014, 01:50:36 AM
Also, I prefer Skyrim's classless levelling system.

You do?  Even I thought that was taking the dumbing-down too far.

There's this Thane who named his dog Alduin in TESO.  It made me smile.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 11, 2014, 02:27:02 AM
Right. Since we've already established that every setting you're familiar with is equally unoriginal, it wouldn't make any sense for you to comment on the originality of any setting. No setting is any less original than another.

Yes, I'm glad we finally see eye to eye. Both Oblivion and Morrowind have generic fantasy settings.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 11, 2014, 03:46:56 AM
Right. Since we've already established that every setting you're familiar with is equally unoriginal, it wouldn't make any sense for you to comment on the originality of any setting. No setting is any less original than another.

Yes, I'm glad we finally see eye to eye. Both Oblivion and Morrowind have generic fantasy settings.

Relative to what?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on August 11, 2014, 04:02:32 AM
Right. Since we've already established that every setting you're familiar with is equally unoriginal, it wouldn't make any sense for you to comment on the originality of any setting. No setting is any less original than another.

Yes, I'm glad we finally see eye to eye. Both Oblivion and Morrowind have generic fantasy settings.

Relative to what?

Relative to nothing.  They're just generic fantasy settings in the same way that every fantasy setting in the world is generic.  Why do you keep asking him this same question?  His answer is stupid, but it's not going to change.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 11, 2014, 04:33:20 AM
Relative to what?

Why? Are you under the impression that for Morrowind and Oblivion to be generic fantasy settings, there must be a setting that isn't?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Vongeo on August 11, 2014, 05:48:53 AM
Relative to what?

Why? Are you under the impression that for Morrowind and Oblivion to be generic fantasy settings, there must be a setting that isn't?
There does, or else your language in using generic is redundant to the point of stupidity. If all fantasy settings are generic then those generic traits are part of the definition of setting.

Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on August 11, 2014, 08:46:55 AM
There's a quest in Skyrim where you have to collect blood samples from an Altmer, Bosmer, Dunmer, Falmer and an Orsimer, so that a guy can use them to synthesize Dwemer blood. If the Dwemer were actually Dwarves, and not related to the Mer races, how could blood from the Mer be used to create Dwemer blood?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 11, 2014, 10:18:10 AM
Relative to what?

Why? Are you under the impression that for Morrowind and Oblivion to be generic fantasy settings, there must be a setting that isn't?

In order for you to call something generic derisively, yes, there must be.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Rushy on August 11, 2014, 01:56:26 PM
Relative to what?

Why? Are you under the impression that for Morrowind and Oblivion to be generic fantasy settings, there must be a setting that isn't?

In order for you to call something generic derisively, yes, there must be.

Oh, well in that case I can't condider Earth (though not its human manufactured areas) a generic setting since it is truly original.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Blanko on August 11, 2014, 02:23:19 PM
Oooooooooorrrr iiiiiiis iiiiit?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 11, 2014, 02:47:32 PM
Relative to what?

Why? Are you under the impression that for Morrowind and Oblivion to be generic fantasy settings, there must be a setting that isn't?

In order for you to call something generic derisively, yes, there must be.

Oh, well in that case I can't condider Earth (though not its human manufactured areas) a generic setting since it is truly original.

What? We aren't discussing absolutes. Originality is not a binary scale. Obviously you believe things can be more or less original than one another, otherwise you wouldn't sarcastically claim that something is "original and refreshing".
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Blanko on August 11, 2014, 02:51:37 PM
I bet there's a billion planets that are more or less just like Earth. Original my ass.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 11, 2014, 03:01:35 PM
Also, I prefer Skyrim's classless levelling system.

You do?  Even I thought that was taking the dumbing-down too far.

At first, I thought so too. What benefit do classes really provide, though?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Blanko on August 11, 2014, 03:11:57 PM
Also, I prefer Skyrim's classless levelling system.

You do?  Even I thought that was taking the dumbing-down too far.

At first, I thought so too. What benefit do classes really provide, though?

Minmaxing
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on August 11, 2014, 03:18:51 PM
I bet there's a billion planets that are more or less just like Earth. Original my ass.
>earth
>a planet
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Blanko on August 11, 2014, 03:21:48 PM
I bet there's a billion planets that are more or less just like Earth. Original my ass.
>earth
>a planet

Yes?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Vongeo on August 11, 2014, 03:29:13 PM
Damnnnnnnn rushy doesn't understand basic concepts of originality hence his username. And Every other aspect of his personality
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on August 11, 2014, 03:41:13 PM
I bet there's a billion planets that are more or less just like Earth. Original my ass.
>earth
>a planet

Yes?
But bro! Earth is a flat!
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Blanko on August 11, 2014, 03:46:54 PM
I bet there's a billion planets that are more or less just like Earth. Original my ass.
>earth
>a planet

Yes?
But bro! Earth is a flat!

So?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on August 11, 2014, 04:45:16 PM
And therefore not a planet!!!!11
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost of V on August 11, 2014, 05:00:45 PM
Also, I prefer Skyrim's classless levelling system.

You do?  Even I thought that was taking the dumbing-down too far.

At first, I thought so too. What benefit do classes really provide, though?

Player creativity, for one.

It makes me feel like I'm closer to the character when I have to plan his build, weapons, powers, stats, etc. That's just me though. There's some planning at the beginning of Skyrim, but it eventually turns into an exploitable "I'm awesome with everything" system that got boring really quickly.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Blanko on August 11, 2014, 05:01:54 PM
And therefore not a planet!!!!11

Why not?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on August 11, 2014, 05:05:10 PM
Keep upper-forum discussion in the upper forums, thank you.  Anyway, it's not so much the missing classes that I didn't like, but the missing attributes.  It's like everyone is the same now.  No one is stronger, faster, or smarter than anyone else.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost of V on August 11, 2014, 05:06:44 PM
Keep upper forums discussion in the upper forums, thank you.  Anyway, it's not so much the missing classes that I didn't like, but the missing attributes.  It's like everyone is the same now.  No one is stronger, faster, or smarter than anyone else.

I agree with this as well.

Three stats on level up really dumbs the game down a good bit.

I also enjoy jumping out of orbit, which is impossible in Skyrim. T_T
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Foxbox on August 11, 2014, 05:07:40 PM
I bet there's a billion planets that are more or less just like Earth. Original my ass.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 11, 2014, 05:20:43 PM
Also, I prefer Skyrim's classless levelling system.

You do?  Even I thought that was taking the dumbing-down too far.

At first, I thought so too. What benefit do classes really provide, though?

Player creativity, for one.

It makes me feel like I'm closer to the character when I have to plan his build, weapons, powers, stats, etc. That's just me though. There's some planning at the beginning of Skyrim, but it eventually turns into an exploitable "I'm awesome with everything" system that got boring really quickly.

You can still plan your character with just as much control, you just don't have to lock yourself into an immutable plan right at the beginning. The classless system allows for more organic and believable character growth. Tamriel is not a vocational society where everybody is born into their skillset and profession. Just like on our own flat earth, people develop all sorts of odd combinations of skills over time (I definitely wish they would stop lopping off skills with each new game). For example, one of my characters is an Imperial who was a hunter during his early levels. After a profound religious experience, he dedicated his life to the service of Talos and began training as a knight. That wasn't something I had planned during character creation, so if I wanted to do the same thing in one of the previous games I would have to use the console.

As for becoming an overpowered jack-of-all-trades: that has always been possible. A class system like Morrowind's just makes it time consuming. It's also time consuming in Skyrim. I do miss attributes, though.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Blanko on August 11, 2014, 05:27:42 PM
What? Re-dedicating your build is the exact same thing in Morrowind, the only real difference is that in Skyrim you're a jack-of-all-trades from the get go so it doesn't matter what you do. Given that skills in Morrowind are tied into attributes, you're naturally gaining some expertise in skills you're not focusing on simply by raising the attributes they're governed by. And you can always visit a trainer to get a particular skill you want up to a level you want it to be at.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 11, 2014, 05:33:05 PM
What? Re-dedicating your build is the exact same thing in Morrowind, the only real difference is that in Skyrim you're a jack-of-all-trades from the get go so it doesn't matter what you do.

No, it is not the exact same thing. If you want to change anything about your class in Morrowind, you have to use enableclassmenu which can be very glitchy. You are not a jack-of-all-trades from the get go in Skyrim. You're bad at everything that you don't have a racial affinity for.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost of V on August 11, 2014, 05:35:24 PM
You can still plan your character with just as much control, you just don't have to lock yourself into an immutable plan right at the beginning. The classless system allows for more organic and believable character growth. Tamriel is not a vocational society where everybody is born into their skillset and profession. Just like on our own flat earth, people develop all sorts of odd combinations of skills over time (I definitely wish they would stop lopping off skills with each new game). For example, one of my characters is an Imperial who was a hunter during his early levels. After a profound religious experience, he dedicated his life to the service of Talos and began training as a knight. That wasn't something I had planned during character creation, so if I wanted to do the same thing in one of the previous games I would have to use the console.

As for becoming an overpowered jack-of-all-trades: that has always been possible. A class system like Morrowind's just makes it time consuming. It's also time consuming in Skyrim. I do miss attributes, though.


No I can't. I can plan my character roughly with very limited control in Skyrim. I can choose a skill tree, focus on that, or I can put multiple points into multiple trees and become an underpowered shit character. All the while, I can choose one of three stats to improve upon level up. Wow, such customization.

I totally feel like I'm making my own unique character by choosing predetermined paths on a tree.

I didn't realize I was playing Diablo 2. Thank god Diablo 2 makes you think about what you put your points into, whereas Skyrim just gets easier and easier no matter what. And I'm still not a Spellsword! I PLAY ES TO BE A SPELLSWORD NOT A TREE-LOVER.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Blanko on August 11, 2014, 05:39:11 PM
No, it is not the exact same thing. If you want to change anything about your class in Morrowind, you have to use enableclassmenu which can be very glitchy.

You know that raising miscellaneous skills is an option, right?

Quote
You are not a jack-of-all-trades from the get go in Skyrim. You're bad at everything that you don't have a racial affinity for.

If by "bad at everything" you mean "everything is viable", then yes.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 11, 2014, 05:43:44 PM
I totally feel like I'm making my own unique character by choosing predetermined paths on a tree.

As opposed to just levelling a pre-determined list of skills to 100? That's just a stick. At least trees have multiple branches. As I said, I do miss attributes, but the perk system does allow for a great deal of customization. There are 251 perks in the game. Without using the "Legendary" skill reset, there's a soft level cap at around 80. While it isn't technically impossible to earn every perk in the game, it would never happen in the normal course of gameplay.

No, it is not the exact same thing. If you want to change anything about your class in Morrowind, you have to use enableclassmenu which can be very glitchy.

You know that raising miscellaneous skills is an option, right?

Miscellaneous skills do not level as quickly as major and minor skills. My skill progression would be stunted arbitrarily. You'll also never level up if you only increase miscellaneous skills. I would only be able to progress if I kept levelling my hunter skills, which wouldn't make sense. I would also be forever stuck with the label of my former class, and labels aren't PC.

If by "bad at everything" you mean "everything is viable", then yes.

Yeah, everything is potentially viable. You're still bad at almost everything in the beginning.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on August 11, 2014, 05:53:01 PM
You know which game has the best skill system?  TESO.  Provisioning, clothing, and woodworking for all!
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost of V on August 11, 2014, 05:55:00 PM
If by "bad at everything" you mean "everything is viable", then yes.

Yeah, everything is potentially viable. You're still bad at almost everything in the beginning.

That's called being a Jack-of-all-trades. Even if you're technically bad at those things according to the game, you can still use all of them to varying degrees of success early on in the game. Swording is just as viable as fireballing.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on August 11, 2014, 05:56:58 PM
I think you mean flameing.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Blanko on August 11, 2014, 06:00:10 PM
If you were actually bad at everything, you couldn't get out of Helgen alive. Being bad doesn't bring success, yet Skyrim is in the awkward position where you're either successful at anything you want or you're not getting anywhere.

It's not like the game is designed around "oh, I need to utilize this skill in this scenario", it's designed around letting you use whatever you want and having it be effective.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 11, 2014, 06:02:25 PM
If by "bad at everything" you mean "everything is viable", then yes.

Yeah, everything is potentially viable. You're still bad at almost everything in the beginning.

That's called being a Jack-of-all-trades. Even if you're technically bad at those things according to the game, you can still use all of them to varying degrees of success early on in the game. Swording is just as viable as fireballing.

Every ES game has allowed you to use every skill with varying degrees of success early in the game.

If you were actually bad at everything, you couldn't get out of Helgen alive.

Yes you can. You're accompanied by at least one powerful NPC for that entire sequence. I've escaped without even picking up a weapon or using magic.

Quote
Being bad doesn't bring success, yet Skyrim is in the awkward position where you're either successful at anything you want or you're not getting anywhere.
It's not like the game is designed around "oh, I need to utilize this skill in this scenario", it's designed around letting you use whatever you want and having it be effective.

Correct.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on August 11, 2014, 06:16:33 PM
Quote
it's designed around letting you use whatever you want and having it be effective.
Why would that be a bad thing?
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on August 11, 2014, 07:21:42 PM
Every ES game has allowed you to use every skill with varying degrees of success early in the game.

Morrowind doesn't.  In fact, it strongly discourages trying to develop skills that you aren't already proficient in, especially combat and magic skills.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 11, 2014, 07:31:44 PM
Every ES game has allowed you to use every skill with varying degrees of success early in the game.

Morrowind doesn't.  In fact, it strongly discourages trying to develop skills that you aren't already proficient in, especially combat and magic skills.

Actually, it does. The degree of success just varies much more.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Snupes on August 11, 2014, 08:08:40 PM
Quote
it's designed around letting you use whatever you want and having it be effective.
Why would that be a bad thing?

Remember, Blanko likes stuff like Dark Souls, where if you're not dodging you're doing it wrong. : ]

Also, yeah, Alexandyr describes probably why I enjoyed Skyrim (and, at the time, Oblivion) more than I've enjoyed Morrowind thus far.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 11, 2014, 08:23:42 PM
Also, yeah, Alexandyr describes probably why I enjoyed Skyrim (and, at the time, Oblivion) more than I've enjoyed Morrowind thus far.

Why's that? Oblivion and Morrowind's class systems are very similar.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Snupes on August 11, 2014, 09:20:54 PM
It's how much a pain in the ass it is to level skills that aren't started out as a primary skill. Using daggers now is virtually pointless for me, as one out of every two-hundred ninety-two thousand hits connects (educated estimate [edumate]) so even if I want to train it I really can't unless I'm willing to suffer forever or use a skill trainer (which is dumb and I shouldn't have to).
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost of V on August 11, 2014, 09:23:37 PM
It's how much a pain in the ass it is to level skills that aren't started out as a primary skill. Using daggers now is virtually pointless for me, as one out of every two-hundred ninety-two thousand hits connects (educated estimate [edumate]) so even if I want to train it I really can't unless I'm willing to suffer forever or use a skill trainer (which is dumb and I shouldn't have to).

That's because you had no idea what you were doing when you started playing the game. Did it not occur to you to do some research the moment the character creation/stat distribution/star chart thing popped up? Having played Oblivion you should have been aware of the weird little quirks the series has. Also, having played Oblivion, you should have been aware of how the skill system works. Like Alex said, Oblivion and Morrowind have a very similar level up system.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: beardo on August 11, 2014, 10:21:05 PM
The Dwemer ruin Mzulft looks nothing like it does in Skyrim. Both the exterior and interior design is completely different, and there's no oculory at the one in TESO.
BETRAYAL!
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Saddam Hussein on August 11, 2014, 10:33:19 PM
None of the dungeons that appear in both Skyrim and TESO really match up in design, but I kind of prefer TESO's approach to dungeons anyway, so I'm not too bothered by it.

And Vauxy, no video game in the world should require research prior to playing.  They're supposed to be self-contained media.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Ghost of V on August 11, 2014, 10:44:21 PM
And Vauxy, no video game in the world should require research prior to playing.  They're supposed to be self-contained media.

Is that why they sell strategy guides?

Regardless, Snupes should have known that not putting Shortsword/Dagger into your primary or secondary skills would be a bad idea if you plan on using such a weapon. Oblivion had pretty much the same mechanics. I was under the impression that she has played Oblivion.
Title: Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
Post by: Particle Person on August 11, 2014, 10:51:02 PM
I don't think I've ever actually tried using a weapon for which my skill is only 5 or 10. I just created a character to test it out.