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Messages - Toddler Thork

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1581
Flat Earth Community / Re: Help this student understand the society!
« on: December 21, 2017, 02:08:01 PM »
If you don't want to fill in the questionnaire then don't,
I didn't. And so how does that help the OP? No point in a questionnaire that alienates the very people you want to fill it in.

but a question about education level is a reasonable one in assessing the demographics of the members.
I'd say gender, age, country of original are all reasonable questions in assessing that.
Why are those things relevant over other things such as race, sexuality, height or annual income?

So the average age comes out as 35. So what? What did you learn? This is not a way to understand the flat earth society. It is a way to pigeon hole it.

1582
Hello, i want to make an azimuthal equidistant projection of one of nasas images of the earth (i believe it's a mercator projection). I don't know if i can make an azimuthal equidistant version of that image but if anybody knows how to, that would be great, because i have no idea.
The first thing to know is that it isn't a mercator projection. Its an azimuthal equidistant projection.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_map_projections

1583
Flat Earth Community / Re: Help this student understand the society!
« on: December 21, 2017, 01:47:30 PM »
That's not very fair. If this person is looking for demographic data about the people who make up the society then it's a perfectly reasonable question.
Kinda agree that the questionnaire is not particularly well designed, but accusations of pigeon holing seem a little harsh.
Well that's easy for you to say when you aren't the lab rat under the microscope. If I'm to be examined and voluntarily give up my data, I'd like to be treated with respect.

1584
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Anyone want to help prove the earth is flat?
« on: December 21, 2017, 01:36:35 PM »
Wilbur Voliva already did this experiment on behalf of the flat side. This is how we arrive at the sun being 3000 miles above the flat earth.



Good luck measuring the globe earth version. If you aren't deadly accurate, you won't even be close. Your readings need to be so accurate as you follow virtually parallel lines as to make your permissible margins of error tiny.

1585
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Sundial
« on: December 21, 2017, 12:07:50 AM »
Tell me Tom Haws, who discovered the flat earth society and created an account 3 weeks ago and has bawwed about its existence ever since, of us, who seems more like the troll?

I'm not questioning your dedication to TFES. I am trying to get to yes. But still you evade and posture.

Is London outside the USA? Do we agree on that?

If that's too silly for you to dignify, can you find anything to agree on?
Which London? London in Madison County, Ohio is definitely in the USA. London, England is not. Is this a trick question?

1586
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Sundial
« on: December 20, 2017, 10:54:25 PM »
BT seems to be more of a troll ...
Back the truck up. Who do you think you are talking to?

BT has been a member of the flat earth society for the better part of a decade.
BT served on the Zetetic Council.
BT wrote many parts of the wiki.
BT drew and had  >o< added to the forum to allow round earthers to show how they felt about losing debates to BT.
BT has lectured on flat earth to universities, media outlets and after dinner soirées about flat earth.
BT conducts media interviews on behalf of the society.
BT has run many of the society's social media accounts.
BT has created so much content that many of the maps and images used in every day postings were originally drawn by BT.
BT has engaged in research projects with institutions to gather flat earth history and been a long time curator of flat earth information.
BT had the first ever user account on tfes.org.
BT has made over 40,000 posts on the forums from his various accounts.

If BT is a troll, BT should be up for 4chan troll of the year award for going above and beyond to get a 5min kick out saying something someone else doesn't agree with on the internet.

Or it could just be BT thinks the earth is flat and has dedicated many years in pursuit of sharing information on flat earth to anyone who is interested. Tell me Tom Haws, who discovered the flat earth society and created an account 3 weeks ago and has bawwed about its existence ever since, of us, who seems more like the troll?

1587
Flat Earth Theory / Re: What makes the Earth so special?
« on: December 20, 2017, 04:49:07 PM »
Thank you for the sci-fi version.

1588
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Sundial
« on: December 20, 2017, 04:41:01 PM »
My mate just set up his own business and made his first sale today. We must adjourn as it is beer o'clock on this side of the disc.  ;D

1589
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Sundial
« on: December 20, 2017, 04:25:27 PM »
BT, we need to agree on something. Do you agree that on a flat earth, the sun does not advance at 15 degrees per hour, and that on a round earth, the sun must advance at 15 degrees per hour? This is what you seem to have been saying repeatedly throughout this thread. Do you agree?
Flat earth has the benefit of slant angles from a very close sun. I never got a round earth answer to explain why 15 degrees isn't observed contrary to theory.

Can you just answer the question? Do you agree with the following (you seem to agree, but you are also hedging)?

1. Sun must apparently advance constantly at 15 degrees per hour everywhere and always on a Round Earth.
2. Sun cannot apparently advance constantly at 15 degrees per hour everywhere and always on a Flat Earth.

1. 15 degrees around a circle from the north pole - yes. Not 15 degrees across the sky. One is lateral, the other has components of lateral and vertical. Azimuth if you like.
2. It certainly will be 15 degrees at the north pole where the sun's distance is always equal from you on a flat earth. Not anywhere else. This is the problem round earth has. the sun should always be 93 million miles from you on a round earth. You can't claim the slant angle to explain the twilight times observed. Flat earth has it covered because it is the superior theory.

1590
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: The only Embassy in Jeruselum
« on: December 20, 2017, 04:19:15 PM »
I don't think Trump has heard of 'status quo'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Status_quo_(Israel)

1591
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Sundial
« on: December 20, 2017, 04:15:06 PM »
BT, we need to agree on something. Do you agree that on a flat earth, the sun does not advance at 15 degrees per hour, and that on a round earth, the sun must advance at 15 degrees per hour? This is what you seem to have been saying repeatedly throughout this thread. Do you agree?
Flat earth has the benefit of slant angles from a very close sun. I never got a round earth answer to explain why 15 degrees isn't observed contrary to theory.

1592
Flat Earth Theory / Re: What makes the Earth so special?
« on: December 20, 2017, 04:10:44 PM »
So the Earth is flat. But almost every other natural celestial body is spherical. What makes the Earth the only unique one?

So the earth has life on it. But almost[sic] every other natural celestial body has none. What makes the Earth the only unique one?


Earth is special. The centre of the universe, the focus of the heavens and the spawning ground for intelligent life. Why are you under the impression earth isn't special? One could infer flatness is a prerequisite for life. It has not been possible on any balls we observe.

1593
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Sundial
« on: December 20, 2017, 04:06:44 PM »
Quote
If you want to make another thread about latitude, please do so. This one is about sundials and belongs to flat earth now.

Seeing as latitude is integral to the accuracy of many types of sundials, it is entirely appropriate to bring up.
To bring it up yes, to want to discuss how latitude works on a flat earth is another topic. You have to accept that is does work in this thread so we can work on sundials. If you wish to abandon sundials as you believe the real proof lies in latitude, that's a separate thread.

Latitude does work on a flat earth. Please look at the map in our FAQ.

Incorrect.  Either the sun's altitude fluctuates based on your latitude, which is nonsensical, or the distance between latitude lines varies which is does not agree with real life navigation.
Pretty sure the sun's altitude (read declination) does fluctuate depending on your latitude. The distance between lines of latitude do not vary on a flat earth. Again I refer you to the FAQ map and a new thread about latitude.

Apology accepted.
An odd way to apologize for misreading another statement's and intent, but I'll take what I can get.

Reminder, looking for hard proof for the sun moving at 15° degrees an hour along the solar ecliptic, different than the vertical ecliptic mentioned/referenced by Thork earlier in the thread. Having a small touch of trouble as he doesn't seem ready to accept the special build sundial posted by Jocelyn.
I was the one looking for hard proof. The real world times between the various degrees of twilight blew that round earth assumption apart. I was left wanting though.  :'(

1594
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Sundial
« on: December 20, 2017, 03:44:08 PM »
If you had read the thread and not jumped in, you'd have realised we were specifically talking about FLAT sundials. Then you interrupted moving the goal posts again.

Polar axis sundials were brought in specifically to rebut your claims about the hourly 15o movement of the sun.
We have poles on a flat earth to. All you are doing is aligning north south and angling based on your latitude (sun slant from the equator).  Flat earth has no issue with sundials like this, any more than round earth has an issue with flat sundials. It is just reverse two-way geometry.

As has been simply demonstrated elsewhere, latitude doesn't work on a FE.  Either the latitude lines change distance from one another or the sun's altitude changes radically based on your latitude.  Both of these cases are easily shown not to be the case by simple observation and simple logic.
Latitude does work on a flat earth. Please look at the map in our FAQ. If you want to make another thread about latitude, please do so. This one is about sundials and belongs to flat earth now.

1595
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Sundial
« on: December 20, 2017, 03:32:14 PM »
If you had read the thread and not jumped in, you'd have realised we were specifically talking about FLAT sundials. Then you interrupted moving the goal posts again.

Polar axis sundials were brought in specifically to rebut your claims about the hourly 15o movement of the sun.
We have poles on a flat earth to. All you are doing is aligning north south and angling based on your latitude (sun slant from the equator).  Flat earth has no issue with sundials like this, any more than round earth has an issue with flat sundials. It is just reverse two-way geometry.

Flat ones absolutely work everywhere. They need calibrating, but so do the globe ones. Where on earth would a flat sundial not work please?

I have to apologize, I was mistaken.  All flat sundials work everywhere, but only if you adjust them for the correct coordinates.  Coordinates that are based on the Earth being a globe. My mistake, but it doesn't really help you does it?
Well it doesn't discredit the earth as flat either ... the point of this thread.

To get a flat sundial to work, it must be oriented to reflect its position in a heliocentric solar system using globe based coordinates.
Which globe based co-ordinates? Tell me, were the ancients using WGS 84?
'The ancients'? We have no evidence of a polar-axis, even-hour sundial prior to nearly the 1400's. That's not exactly 'ancient' by my count.
You are embarressing yourself again. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_sundials#Ancient_sundials
You really are when you don't bother to actually *read* what I said. Bolded the relevant bits in the earlier post and helpfully linked to what I'm talking about. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_sundials#Modern_dialing
If you had read the thread and not jumped in, you'd have realised we were specifically talking about FLAT sundials. Then you interrupted moving the goal posts again. The thing about rainbows is every time you get closer to them, they move away from you. Stop with your rainbow reasoning.
Oh I've read the whole thing. You were discussing there how sundials needed to be adjusted based on location/coordinates. Which is ONLY true of polar axis, even hour sundials. You made a reference to if 'the ancients' were using equations relating to the movement of the sun/earth system. I was pointing out that 'the ancients' didn't use sundials that required such information, and they were in fact not in use until nearly 1400. Not sure how that's 'moving the goalposts' but ok.
Apology accepted.


1596
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Sundial
« on: December 20, 2017, 03:20:18 PM »
Well it turns out flat sundials work too. What we have here is round earther's trying to cheat a win so as they can maintain their normalisation bias. Basically more of the blue pill.

I will use a flat "sundial" today at my house and run the JocelynSachs experiment. Will you?


No. https://darksky.net/details/51.5085,-0.1257/2017-12-20/us12/en

Flat ones absolutely work everywhere. They need calibrating, but so do the globe ones. Where on earth would a flat sundial not work please?

I have to apologize, I was mistaken.  All flat sundials work everywhere, but only if you adjust them for the correct coordinates.  Coordinates that are based on the Earth being a globe. My mistake, but it doesn't really help you does it?
Well it doesn't discredit the earth as flat either ... the point of this thread.

To get a flat sundial to work, it must be oriented to reflect its position in a heliocentric solar system using globe based coordinates.
Which globe based co-ordinates? Tell me, were the ancients using WGS 84?
'The ancients'? We have no evidence of a polar-axis, even-hour sundial prior to nearly the 1400's. That's not exactly 'ancient' by my count.
You are embarressing yourself again. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_sundials#Ancient_sundials
You really are when you don't bother to actually *read* what I said. Bolded the relevant bits in the earlier post and helpfully linked to what I'm talking about. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_sundials#Modern_dialing
If you had read the thread and not jumped in, you'd have realised we were specifically talking about FLAT sundials. Then you interrupted moving the goal posts again. The thing about rainbows is every time you get closer to them, they move away from you. Stop with your rainbow reasoning.

1597
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Sundial
« on: December 20, 2017, 03:11:24 PM »
Flat ones absolutely work everywhere. They need calibrating, but so do the globe ones. Where on earth would a flat sundial not work please?

I have to apologize, I was mistaken.  All flat sundials work everywhere, but only if you adjust them for the correct coordinates.  Coordinates that are based on the Earth being a globe. My mistake, but it doesn't really help you does it?
Well it doesn't discredit the earth as flat either ... the point of this thread.

To get a flat sundial to work, it must be oriented to reflect its position in a heliocentric solar system using globe based coordinates.
Which globe based co-ordinates? Tell me, were the ancients using WGS 84?

No but they also weren’t traveling all over the world were they?  Are you disputing that the gnomon on a sundial must be adjusted for latitude? Are you aware that the eccentricities in the Earth’s orbit cause predictable errors in sundials based on a heliocentric model of the solar system and General Relativity?
I already said, flat sundials need to be calibrated, just as globe ones do. What point are you trying to make?

That sundials work based on the Earth being a globe, as I have explicitly stated.
Prove it.

1598
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Sundial
« on: December 20, 2017, 03:09:06 PM »
Flat ones absolutely work everywhere. They need calibrating, but so do the globe ones. Where on earth would a flat sundial not work please?

I have to apologize, I was mistaken.  All flat sundials work everywhere, but only if you adjust them for the correct coordinates.  Coordinates that are based on the Earth being a globe. My mistake, but it doesn't really help you does it?
Well it doesn't discredit the earth as flat either ... the point of this thread.

To get a flat sundial to work, it must be oriented to reflect its position in a heliocentric solar system using globe based coordinates.
Which globe based co-ordinates? Tell me, were the ancients using WGS 84?

No but they also weren’t traveling all over the world were they?  Are you disputing that the gnomon on a sundial must be adjusted for latitude? Are you aware that the eccentricities in the Earth’s orbit cause predictable errors in sundials based on a heliocentric model of the solar system and General Relativity?
I already said, flat sundials need to be calibrated, just as globe ones do. What point are you trying to make?

1599
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Sundial
« on: December 20, 2017, 03:05:28 PM »
Flat ones absolutely work everywhere. They need calibrating, but so do the globe ones. Where on earth would a flat sundial not work please?

I have to apologize, I was mistaken.  All flat sundials work everywhere, but only if you adjust them for the correct coordinates.  Coordinates that are based on the Earth being a globe. My mistake, but it doesn't really help you does it?
Well it doesn't discredit the earth as flat either ... the point of this thread.

To get a flat sundial to work, it must be oriented to reflect its position in a heliocentric solar system using globe based coordinates.
Which globe based co-ordinates? Tell me, were the ancients using WGS 84?
'The ancients'? We have no evidence of a polar-axis, even-hour sundial prior to nearly the 1400's. That's not exactly 'ancient' by my count.
You are embarressing yourself again. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_sundials#Ancient_sundials


1600
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Sundial
« on: December 20, 2017, 03:00:30 PM »
Flat ones absolutely work everywhere. They need calibrating, but so do the globe ones. Where on earth would a flat sundial not work please?

I have to apologize, I was mistaken.  All flat sundials work everywhere, but only if you adjust them for the correct coordinates.  Coordinates that are based on the Earth being a globe. My mistake, but it doesn't really help you does it?
Well it doesn't discredit the earth as flat either ... the point of this thread.

To get a flat sundial to work, it must be oriented to reflect its position in a heliocentric solar system using globe based coordinates.
Which globe based co-ordinates? Tell me, were the ancients using WGS 84?

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