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Messages - Dr Van Nostrand

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41
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Increased gravity at the poles?
« on: November 12, 2018, 09:45:52 PM »
Ambient pressure is distributed in all directions. As someone pointed out upthread, it has no vector.

The weight of the water surrounds each sand grain from all directions.  It does not push 'down.'

You are basically suggesting that if you were burried two feet under the sand of the deepest ocean that you would not be crushed, since that sand is not feeling the weight of the ocean.

I think you are mistaken. My position is that you would be crushed.


You would be crushed by the ambient pressure crushing you in all directions. You would not be crushed flat.

42
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Increased gravity at the poles?
« on: November 12, 2018, 09:19:10 PM »
Tom, in a nutshell, Archimedes Principle says:  "Every object is buoyed upwards by a force equal to the weight of the fluid the object displaces."  This means that dense objects will always become lighter as the density of the fluid displaced increases.

That is not what that quote means. It means that if the weight of the object is equal to the fluid it displaces it will pulled neigher lower or higher.

But if the object is lighter than the fluid it displaces it will be pulled higher. Just the same, if the object is heavier than the fluid it displaces it will be pushed lower.
Very true, but in your original reply you claimed that the increase in our weight at the poles was due to the greater weight pushing down on our head. This is fallacious.

What is the true reason for the increased weight at the poles?

Air, like water, does have weight to it. The thread just got nitpicky about buyancy.

Take a glass jar and fill it 1/4th of the way with sand.

Now fill the rest of the glass with water.

Are you to say that the sand does not feel the weight of the water upon it?

How is it possible to argue, as markjo does above, that this water is not pushing the sand down?


Ambient pressure is distributed in all directions. As someone pointed out upthread, it has no vector.

The weight of the water surrounds each sand grain from all directions.  It does not push 'down.'


The barometric pressure does not affect how much we weigh otherwise we'd see our weight fluctuate when the barometer changes.


However, we can be affected by the buoyancy of the atmosphere. We are less dense than air so we sink in air. We are comparable to the density of water so we float or sink based on how much fat (floats) or how much muscle (sinks) we have.  We are much less dense than liquid mercury so we float high is a body of mercury. However, the difference in buoyancy for a human in a low pressure atmosphere and a high pressure atmosphere is negligible.   

43
Flat Earth Theory / Re: The Green Flash
« on: November 12, 2018, 04:43:32 PM »
I've spent a lot of time on the ocean and had been told about the green flash. But it was years before I actually got to see it in person and I was actually starting to think it was a snipe-hunting myth. When I finally got to see it, I was off shore near the Caribbean (South Atlantic) island of Saba and it looked nothing like I had imagined (pre Youtube era.)

The conditions had to be just right and you had to be looking at the right spot at the right time.  I could see that if someone didn't want to acknowledge the reality of the green flash, it is easy to ignore. Hoaxing a green flash video would be easier that hoaxing space travel videos.


44
Flat Earth Community / Re: BBC slags off TFES again
« on: November 08, 2018, 09:24:04 PM »
I think the use of the TFES icon is a pretty blatant infringement. It symbolizes this specific forum when there are way freakier FE communities out there. However, I'm certain they would argue 'fair use' even though it's really not. 'Fair Use' would be a valid defense if it was a story specifically about this forum. Unfortunately, in the legal kumite, right and wrong matter less than who spends the most on lawyers.

The defamation angle is very interesting and could have merit. Holocaust deniers are denying specific acts of hate and violence which earns them a special status. In some countries, it's even a crime to deny the holocaust.

Donald Trump denies climate change. How would he react to being compared to a holocaust denier when his daughter converted to Judaism. Perhaps he should join TFES in a class action lawsuit.

This video was mindless pop culture science with no citations or data, just talking heads spouting generalized opinions. I have a low tolerance for bad science RE or FE.


But the one thing that really did  piss me off about this video is that I had to download the BBC app to my phone to watch this punk-ass piece of non-info fluff. They need to be sent to the lower forums of life.


Pete is right. Twitter is not the place to start. It would get attention and publicity but it would bring more of those one post trolls that hit, run and end up in CN. Now, if Pete reaches out to BBC and they send some disrespectful email or say something stupid, posting their response on twitter might get better attention.

45
Science & Alternative Science / Re: The beliefs on this board...
« on: November 08, 2018, 02:56:56 PM »
A giant green ogre is the large consciousness where our Matrix resides!

Of course, Shrek thinks he's aware of the world around him when he's actually in a Pixar Studio matrix.
Pixar Studios thinks it's aware of the world around them when them are actually in God's video game matrix being played on a Vintage Coleco gaming console.
God could upgrade to the Sony PS4 Pro anytime and we'll be screwed.

46
Science & Alternative Science / Re: The beliefs on this board...
« on: November 01, 2018, 06:27:10 PM »
All I mean by that is that even if you think you are doing a good job guarding against propaganda, it is prudent to continue to question where your beliefs come from and try and sort out whether they are post hoc rationalizations from influences you are aware of, or not.


Yes!  This^^^^^


Question everything!
Ah...

You fell for the good ole..."...question everything..." propaganda...

Too bad really...

You were, of course...the last and greatest hope for all humanity...


If humanity is putting any hope in me, we are sooo screwed...

47
Science & Alternative Science / Re: The beliefs on this board...
« on: October 30, 2018, 12:46:49 PM »
See Tom Campbell's videos on the double slit experiment.  That's how I got started with his stuff in the first place.  His arguments are compelling.  It certainly appears that mankind can't have simultaneous knowledge about certain things because the software of the virtual world we exist in wasn't written that way.  I don't know whether to be afraid or comforted.  It seems that we all have free will, but everything is probabilistic and it's impossible to know 100% about anything.  I find the possibility of a virtual reality very interesting.  I've never been much of a video game player because it was addicting to me.  I started playing video games once and didn't do some important things that had to be done on time.  After learning my lesson I put the games away and never went back.  My only thoughts now are time spans.  Allegedly, mankind has existed for millions of years and has had a natural progression toward better and better things over that time.  If we are in a virtual reality the time perception of whose video game we are in must be a lot shorter, or they just can exist for an infinite amount to time.  One of the first video games out there was Kingdom.  I played that on one of the first commercial personal computers out there.  You set up all the variable about your 'Kingdom'.  Planted so many acres of corn, dug so many wells, spent some of your gold for weapons, and took some of your concubines out of the field and gave them certain other duties.  After you had all your variables set up the game would generate a random number and that would effect the outcome of your kingdom.  I remember something like 'the Huns would attack, a herd of locusts would eat half your field crop, wells would go dry, concubines would run off, ect.  You then had to analyze the new situation and reallocate all your resources.  Isn't that about what's happening on a continuous basis in the real world?

Back to the good stuff...

Large Consciousness systems and the Matrix we live in...

People might be surprised how many seriously scientific physicists talk about the virtual reality simulation theory. The PBS series 'Space Time' did an episode on it.

But for me there are still some holes in it.

It might be that the quantized nature of matter, energy and information in our universe simply behaves the way data in a computer behaves. We look at its behavior and the only analog our minds can come up with is a virtual simulation.

Even if we carry forward the analogy of the video game simulation, it wouldn't necessarily mean there is intention or intelligence behind it. A video game simulation can run on its own with no input from anyone. We could imagine that the super entity that started the video game simulation is now passed out completely unconscious on the couch with a bong in one hand and the other hand stuck in a can of Pringles. In this case, we are still in control of our own destinies.

We could even take it a step further. What if the gaming console and the simulation it's running is simply a natural occurrence that arose by chance over an unimaginable span of time. Perhaps it organized itself and arranged Itself by chance just like a quartz crystal or a daimond.

Regardless of the nature of the Matrix, I can never remember if I'm supposed to take the red pill or the blue pill.




48
Science & Alternative Science / Re: The beliefs on this board...
« on: October 30, 2018, 12:25:47 PM »
All I mean by that is that even if you think you are doing a good job guarding against propaganda, it is prudent to continue to question where your beliefs come from and try and sort out whether they are post hoc rationalizations from influences you are aware of, or not.


Yes!  This^^^^^


Question everything!



Over the course of my life, I have believed some stupid crap and found that the more deeply we believe something the more we have to question it.

It turns out that Sea Monkeys are just brine shrimp and despite what the internet ad banners say, there are not hot, young babes in my local area looking to hook up with older married men.

Question God, Sea Monkeys and everything.

49
Science & Alternative Science / Re: The beliefs on this board...
« on: October 30, 2018, 11:25:05 AM »
None of us are immune to propaganda, we all only believe that we are.

Actually, that's just you.

We aren't immune to propaganda but by being a critical thinker, we can avoid its influence. It is more important than ever to be an educated consumer of information. We need to question and fact check our most deeply held beliefs even more than we question the beliefs of others.

Just believing things we read or hear without questioning is like eating something you find on the sidewalk. It doesn't matter how appetizing it looks, don't eat it.

Eh, Disputeone is probably right.  Information we take in (aka Propaganda) must necessarily affect us in some way.  It is pretty arrogant to think that you can think yourself out of the limitations of your brain.

Not only arrogant but this belief that you are immune to propaganda actually makes the propaganda that much more effective.



If I was immune to propaganda I wouldn't have to worry about propaganda.  But being aware of and avoiding syphilis is not the same as being immune to syphilis.

There are people and organizations spending  millions of dollars trying to manipulate our awareness. We must fight for control of our consciousness against internal and external forces. I may lose the fight but I refuse to surrender.

If we simply throw up our hands and say there's nothing that can be done, we are doomed to become drones

It may be arrogant for me to believe I can fight for the sovereignty of my awareness but  I think it is sad that anybody wouldn't.

50
Science & Alternative Science / Re: Chemtrails
« on: October 27, 2018, 11:58:17 AM »
In the U.S, the government doesn't need to spray toxic chemicals on people from airplanes. They can just give them to us in the form of snack cakes, potato chips, greasy hamburgers and we'll gobble them up.

If they want to test some chemical on the population just sell in the new "Strawberry Daiquiri flavored Ding Dongs."

51
Science & Alternative Science / Re: Do you trust your senses?
« on: October 27, 2018, 11:41:21 AM »
After decades of partying, hyperbaric exposures and occassionally getting kicked in the head, I certainly don't trust my senses. I need to double check everything I sense.

52
Science & Alternative Science / Re: The beliefs on this board...
« on: October 26, 2018, 02:24:17 PM »
Take a look at Tom Campbell on YouTube.  Your outlook is too narrow.  Yes, we could be living in a simulation, but NASA is too.  Everyone might be just a character in a video game being played by some unknown entity (not NASA).  According to Tom Campbell we all have free will and all our circumstances are probabilistic.  It's all just a roll of the dice.  If Tom Campbell's notion is true I don't know whether to be comforted or afraid.

OK... trying to stay on topic "the beliefs on this board..."   LCS (large consciousness systems) are one of the beliefs on this board so I think we can safely explore it in this thread. No one wants to be sent to the lower fora because the walls there are smeared with feces, blood and it smells bad.

I saw some of Tom Campbell's videos and he's exploring some ideas that our reality is a virtual reality of some larger consciousness. There are other physicists that also talk about our existence being a simulation. He does a good job of approaching it scientifically and has some compelling arguments. Many FE Youtubers spend their clicks trying to disprove RE rather that laying out reproducible tests to prove FE. Also LCS theories don't call for the assumption of a global conspiracy involving millions of people.

But anytime I look at a theory that creates a frame of reference so large to include all possible frames of reference, there is a point where you reach the unknowable. If we establish that everything knowable is a work of something beyond what's knowable, we can endow that larger consciousness with whatever qualities we choose.

Is the large consciousness good or evil?
Is its name God, Allah or Seymour?  Maybe it's a musical doo-op group...
What's its agenda?

Then some a-hole like me can come along and propose that the entire LCS and its creator are just a dream in the mind of a sleeping dog.

 Still, given the strange quantum relationship between the observer and the observed, I'm not going to dismiss this theory as I would the 'dome' theory.




53
Science & Alternative Science / Re: The beliefs on this board...
« on: October 25, 2018, 06:23:27 PM »
Take a look at Tom Campbell on YouTube.  Your outlook is too narrow.  Yes, we could be living in a simulation, but NASA is too.  Everyone might be just a character in a video game being played by some unknown entity (not NASA).  According to Tom Campbell we all have free will and all our circumstances are probabilistic.  It's all just a roll of the dice.  If Tom Campbell's notion is true I don't know whether to be comforted or afraid.


Imagine how freaked out that unknown entity running the video game simulation will be when he finds out that he's in a video game simulation run by another more powerful unknown entity.


Definitely will look at Tom Campbell's stuff...


54
Science & Alternative Science / Re: The beliefs on this board...
« on: October 25, 2018, 02:04:45 PM »
None of us are immune to propaganda, we all only believe that we are.

Actually, that's just you.

We aren't immune to propaganda but by being a critical thinker, we can avoid its influence. It is more important than ever to be an educated consumer of information. We need to question and fact check our most deeply held beliefs even more than we question the beliefs of others.

Just believing things we read or hear without questioning is like eating something you find on the sidewalk. It doesn't matter how appetizing it looks, don't eat it.

Eh, Disputeone is probably right.  Information we take in (aka Propaganda) must necessarily affect us in some way.  It is pretty arrogant to think that you can think yourself out of the limitations of your brain.


I readily accept the limitations of my brain, I understand that we could be living in a simulation matrix type thing while NASA overlords feast on moonshrimp fettuccine. Part of being a critical thinker is the understanding that we don't know it all.

Part of why I come here is to find something that will challenge my beliefs. But if they are going to tell me that the South Pole doesn't exist, I'm going to need something tangible to back it up.

I really like the line, " Information we take in (aka Propaganda) must necessarily affect us in some way." We each must understand this when we read something on Facebook that pisses us off or makes us horny. We have to recognize that we are affected and have to mitigate our reactions accordingly.


I try to give my beliefs only as much credence as they can produce predictive results in the world. 

55
Science & Alternative Science / Re: The beliefs on this board...
« on: October 25, 2018, 01:39:08 PM »
None of us are immune to propaganda, we all only believe that we are.

Actually, that's just you.

We aren't immune to propaganda but by being a critical thinker, we can avoid its influence. It is more important than ever to be an educated consumer of information. We need to question and fact check our most deeply held beliefs even more than we question the beliefs of others.

Just believing things we read or hear without questioning is like eating something you find on the sidewalk. It doesn't matter how appetizing it looks, don't eat it.

56
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Help Me debunk this stupid video
« on: October 24, 2018, 09:23:24 PM »
Interesting arguments here, i hadn't pickup up on the strain he seems to be under trying to keep himself "Weightless", from this it seems it might just be very clever cable work and cgi.... And i can't rule it out because who knows what they can and can't do, but the underwater idea seems a little far fetched, just because of the huge amount of crew resources and money needed, it would just be easier to green screen it or something, because by the time you have removed all the water in post i can't imagine there being much useable video left, also between all the various "Astronauts" there is a lot of this well produced video being released every day, so even with their funny money, time would still be an issue trying to edit all these to near perfection and distributed, Unless someone can convince me otherwise, i am going to stand by my theory of a well designed set, with an immense amount of cable work and some clever CGI.

Thanks all who responded


If space travel is real, what evidence would you have to see to be convinced? Is it a fact that you won't believe it no matter what evidence you are presented with?

Why don't you just tell us what you would have to presented with before you believe?


57
Science & Alternative Science / Re: The beliefs on this board...
« on: October 22, 2018, 09:19:01 PM »

Quote
In the book, Le Bon claims that there are several characteristics of crowd psychology: "impulsiveness, irritability, incapacity to reason, the absence of judgement of the critical spirit, the exaggeration of sentiments, and others..."[1] Le Bon claimed that "an individual immersed for some length of time in a crowd soon finds himself – either in consequence of magnetic influence given out by the crowd or from some other cause of which we are ignorant – in a special state, which much resembles the state of fascination in which the hypnotized individual finds himself in the hands of the hypnotizer."


I think this statement reveals a lot about the dude who wrote it. It sounds like he was the type easily influenced by the 'consequence of magnetic influence given out by the crowd.'

He might have the potential to become the hypnotized individual in the hands of the hypnotizer but I don't.

58
It always struck me as absurd that the Global powers behind the moon hoax would spend millions of dollars to hoax a moon landing by carefully and completely faking a trip to outer space and then realize," Oops, we forgot to put stars in outer space."
While I'm not convinced that the moon missions were faked, I have to object to your description here. Most moon landing conspiracies I've engaged with suggest that the budget was relatively small, because the less you spend, the more you get to steal.

This is normally cognate with arguments that the lunar module looks as if it was made out of cheap tin foil, that huge amounts of decisive evidence mysteriously disappeared or were accidentally deleted, and that the evidence that remains is of uncharacteristically low quality for the time period.

Regardless of whether we choose to agree with the argument, the argument is not that a lot of money was spent to deceive people, but rather that people were gullible enough to accept something sub-par.


Fair point....

Still if someone is going to cheap out on some aspect of fake space travel, you'd think that stars would be the one thing they wouldn't skimp on. Even the cheesiest sci-fi movies from the 1950s had stars.

59
-A common piece of "evidence" for the landings being a hoax is "why can't you see the stars"-

It always struck me as absurd that the Global powers behind the moon hoax would spend millions of dollars to hoax a moon landing by carefully and completely faking a trip to outer space and then realize," Oops, we forgot to put stars in outer space."




60
Flat Earth Theory / Re: What is beyond the ice wall?
« on: October 16, 2018, 08:27:37 PM »
Well, I believe, NOTHING is beyond the ice wall. We are a miniscule species that is alone in the vast nothingness that surrounds us. How our plane came to be and where it will go once time runs out, no one knows. One thing is sure, however: THere was NEVER a big bang, and whatever the Globe-Earth scientist idiots propose, is completely false. There is nothing smaller than what is visible with the naked eye, there is thing such as subatomary particles, there is no thing such as any illusionary "higgs Boson", there is thing such as "black holes". The only black hole I see is inside the globe earthers' heads.

It's a miracle, so why do we need to search what is beyond the ice wall? Why do we need to know? The only intelligent statement given by a round earther was a quote from Richard Dawkins, who said: "Isn't it a noble and enlighting way to spend our brief time in the sun?" We should just enjoy it, before it's to late. Stop searching for a truth, when the truth is right before your eyes. Accept the mirace of life, and stop looking for anything beyond this miracle.

Willful ignorance is a choice anyone is free to make and I support your free choice. But before you start calling people idiots you need to remember that it's only because someone explored things not visible to the naked eye that you have a computer to post your uniformed name calling on the internet. Only because people studied electrons, you have a place to post your unsubstantiated speculations.

Science is always great when it produces the latest gaming console or microwavable Hot Pockets. But when it produces something people don't want to hear then they choose not to believe.

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