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Messages - Rounder

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Flat Earth Debate / Re: New to the idea, one simple question. WHY
« on: September 18, 2017, 01:28:10 AM »
I know this question was not directed at me but everyone knows I am a flat earther.
I don't hide it, but then why would I. There's no persecution in the workplace anyway.
Thinking back at the places I've worked, a person probably wouldn't have been fired for declaring themselves to be a flat earther.  Probably.  However, I suspect that in a surprising but legally defensible coincidence, some perfectly legitimate reason would have been suddenly found....

Flat Earth Debate / Re: New to the idea, one simple question. WHY
« on: September 17, 2017, 05:44:52 PM »
People are afraid to publicly acknowledge him. I will not deny Jesus Christ the Savior, no never.
Yes, you're very brave, defending the faith from the other side of a computer screen, with a pseudonym and a mocking photo avatar.  The martyrs are singing songs about you as we speak, no doubt.

Does anyone in the real world know you're a flat earth Christian (FEC)?  Outside your safe circle of fellow FEC's that is?  Now THAT would demonstrate real courage.

Flat Earth Debate / Re: Tsar Bomb shows Earth is round
« on: September 17, 2017, 05:37:49 PM »
Actually a globe earth would have had a destructive interference collision of the pressure waves meeting after each coming around cancelling the effect for the most part, where as, with a dome the wave would have equalized in one direction continually until it dissipated through heat making 3 complete rotations.

Thank you bye bye come again. Flat earth with a dome !
I'm glad J-Child brings this up, because these two events both provide evidence against the dome.  Look at the location of the Krakatoa eruption.  It is much closer to "the dome" due south, and four times as far (or more) to the north over the pole and south again.  Sound waves reflecting off "the dome" would form a much different pattern than was observed, and would only be coherent along the north/south line from Krakatoa to the nearest and farthest dome edges.  Everywhere else, the sound would be striking the dome at an angle, and would reflect off the dome at the complement of that angle, not back toward the source.

Here is how sound would behave under a dome:

And here's how it DID behave on the globe:

The round and slightly-off-round lines represent simultaneous arrival times, in two hour increments.  The radial lines illustrate the great-circle path from Krakatoa to various recording barometers, and the dots show the locations of those barometers.  The sound wave diverges away from the point of origin (the map on the right), expanding at the speed of sound in all directions until it reaches the distance where the earth's diameter is greatest.  Then it continues propagating away from Krakatoa but in an ever shrinking diameter toward the antipodes (the map on the left).  The wave front becomes non-circular due to various effects such as geography and meteorology, but still shows a clear pattern of expansion on the near side and convergence on the far side. 

Flat Earth General / Re: Alt Flat Earth
« on: September 16, 2017, 04:18:03 AM »
Nope -    ???
think ---   the second time you passed the USA, there would be different people living at your house.   ha  ha    ;D

This.  I myself have personally gone all the way around in one direction, first by US Navy ship: Seattle - Hawaii - Korea - Philippines - Diego Garcia - Bahrain, then by air: Bahrain - Rome - The Azores - Philadelphia - Seattle.  The people I left behind in Seattle when I began traveling westward were there in the Seattle I returned to from the east.

Flat Earth Debate / Re: Tsar Bomb shows Earth is round
« on: September 16, 2017, 01:08:12 AM »
We've tried this before with the even more powerful shock wave from the eruption of Krakatoa back in 1883.  Didn't convince anybody.

Flat Earth Debate / Re: Disproof: Why doesn't the southern hemiplane freeze?
« on: September 14, 2017, 02:41:23 PM »
Or better yet, can you show us, using any flat earth model you choose, what movement of the sun could produce a day at Stanley, Falkland Islands that has over 16 1/2 hours of daylight and zero hours of true darkness, the balance being made up of deepening twilight that never fades to true darkness?

The Monopole map and model is used for visualization purposes only.

I know you don't like the monopole model.  That's why I included the words highlighted above. 

The bottom line is I don't care which model you use because I find them all unconvincing.  You DO find one convincing?  Fine, then use it to "visualize" for us how the sun can move above it and produce the daylight patterns that we observe.

Flat Earth General / Re: FE and RE both welcome for a visual experiment
« on: September 14, 2017, 12:23:32 PM »
In this video you will get to see Kurt, pay attention he goes by very fast. Plus you will be able to hear the equipment on to make everyone feel like they're contributing in their daily work loads.

Did you see it? The UFO orb at :16  Oh yeah baby my vids have everything.
You will get to love the entertainment level of the J-man and why he is sooo darn special.
J-Man, are you on a vacation? Why nobody pays attention to the orb, if it's real?
J-Child's brain may be on vacation, that "UFO orb" is obviously the reflection of a light bulb in the glass separating the camera from the hallway.

Flat Earth Debate / Re: Disproof: Why doesn't the southern hemiplane freeze?
« on: September 14, 2017, 05:14:40 AM »
Can you show that it's not?

Or better yet, can you show us, using any flat earth model you choose, what movement of the sun could produce a day at Stanley, Falkland Islands that has over 16 1/2 hours of daylight and zero hours of true darkness, the balance being made up of deepening twilight that never fades to true darkness? 

Can you then show how the same movement of the sun can produce, simultaneously, a day with only 8 1/4 hours of daylight and over 12 hours of darkness 7,000 miles directly north of there in Deer Lake, Newfoundland? 

These figures make perfect sense to people who understand the globe and the tilt of its axis.  I have never yet seen a flat earth explanation for these figures.  And for those who doubt the hours of sunlight at Stanley, there is a set of webcams one may consult.

Flat Earth Debate / Re: the moon map hypothesis
« on: September 14, 2017, 04:08:01 AM »
I think 3DGeek has addressed the main point, so I took a look at your last video.  Those planes are not "flying through the sun".  The optical illusion that makes a plane passing in front of the sun appear to draw a trail of solar gasses behind it?  That is light refracting in the air turbulence behind the hot jet engines.  If that plane were actually flying through the sun, the sun would be only a few thousand FEET above the ground* which people would have noticed (understatement)

Please tell me you don't ACTUALLY believe that airplanes are flying through the sun?  You know, you don't actually have to click on every video that claims you "must see" it, that phrase is pretty much a dead giveaway that it's crap.

*(maybe less, I suspect this footage was taken near an airport, which puts the aircraft only a few hundred feet up)

Flat Earth Debate / Re: Homemade footage of curvature of the earth
« on: September 13, 2017, 10:44:40 PM »
he was pulled off by the weight of his enormous...well, you know.

Flat Earth General / Re: FE and RE both welcome for a visual experiment
« on: September 13, 2017, 10:39:18 PM »
Although rare, it does sometimes happen: I have a cousin who put his eyeball at the 200" Mt Palomar observatory prime focus (during an instrument swap)

Flat Earth Debate / Re: the moon map hypothesis
« on: September 13, 2017, 10:24:44 PM »
Thank you Junker for bringing this to the "Debate" forum, we couldn't say what needs to be said where it started (in the "General" forum).

an oval isnt close in resemblence to a circle by far.
It is, if the shape is only very slightly wider on the major axis

Egg shaped aint frog spawn shaped.

My 3% difference involved taking the smaller distance from the larger as we dont actually know the width of the we?
Yes, we do.  In fact we have good orbit ephemeris for all the major bodies in the solar system (based since Kepler on elliptical heliocentric orbits), and for many of the minor bodies as well.  This allowed us to put Mariner, Voyager, Cassini, Juno, New Horizons, and many other interplanetary probes precisely where we wanted them. 

It is also an area of science with the rare opportunity for amateur observers to contribute in a meaningful way, by conducting observations that help refine the orbital ephemerides of minor solar system objects.  The technique is called "occultation" and one participates by positioning oneself in the projected shadow path created when an asteroid passes in front of (or "occults") a star. 

It doesn't even require a very large telescope to do it, here's a setup created by taking apart a pair of binoculars and attaching a webcam:

Deploy a bunch of those across the shadow path, like this:

(the bunched up dots in Oklahoma are all Scotty Degenhardt's)

...and you can refine not only the orbit but even the shape of the object.  You can see that the projected centerline of the shadow is a little too far north, because Paul Maley's location was projected to have a hit, while Karen Young's location was projected to be a miss.

Next time Hertha occults a star, her orbit should be better defined, and the shadow centerline more accurately predicted.

Flat Earth General / Re: Flat earth is not a viable model
« on: September 12, 2017, 07:00:37 PM »
2)  Of course there is a testable map.    It was already tested in the 1800's.    A captain decided to sail around the southern continent; but by the time he got to his starting point he had *****gone 6.5 times  as many miles as expected --  proving that he sailed around the entire earth on it's outer perimeter   - not around a southern continent.
Please tell us more about this voyage.  Who sailed it?  Name of his vessel?  Starting port and date?

Oh!  You're one of *THAT* kind of flat-earther.   Most people here believe that the Sun hovers only 3,000 miles above the surface of the flat earth, and that it's about 30 miles across.
You say it's 93 million miles away - just like the round-earthers do.
That's a new variation on FE theory...not what the FE'ers here believe at all.
I didn't know *THAT* kind of flat-earther even existed.  Havin the sun at 93 million miles above a flat earth is even more ridiculous than having it only 3000 miles above one.  Neither one can explain sunrise/sunset, and that's just for starters.

Flat Earth Debate / Re: Old video footage of space
« on: September 11, 2017, 07:20:55 PM »
A quick search for "apollo hasselblad cameras" finds a NASA page that offers this information:

Quote from:
Modifications to the cameras included special large locks for the film magazines and levers on the f-stop and distance settings on the lenses. These modifications facilitated the camera's use by the crew operating with pressurized suits and gloves.

Honestly, at this point you should stop, you're just embarrassing yourself.

Flat Earth Debate / Re: Photographic evidence of Earth's curvature.
« on: September 11, 2017, 06:53:04 PM »
The first photo was taken at 39,000 feet by a teenager last year, and clearly shows the curvature of the Earth

It actually clearly shows the effect of the lens.  From that height you still can't actually see the curvature.

I'm no flatty, but that's not what the picture shows.

Your experience has not encompassed enough of the earth to provide enough information.  If the earth is flat, a drive from Washington to Baja gets you, what, 30% closer to the ice wall?  At the same time, it gets you 50% closer to the sun (if not more than 50%).  Consider an analogy: you are in your house in the winter, walking toward the window.  It's cold outside that window, you are getting closer to the cold.  However if the heat register is right under that window, you will get warmer instead of colder.

The round earth offers a better explanation for your experience.  Both north of the equator and south of the equator, sunlight falls at more shallow angles through more miles of atmosphere, and thus provides less heating to the surface, thus making things colder the farther from the equator you go in either direction.

Perihelion (the day the earth is closest to the sun) is around January 3rd.  Aphelion (the day the earth is farthest from the sun) is around July 4th.  Distance to the sun has no measurable effect on seasonal temperature variations.  Summers in the northern hemisphere are warmer than summers in the southern hemisphere despite the earth being farther away, due to the fact that the northern hemisphere has a higher percentage of land vs water by surface area, and land is easier to heat up than the ocean.

Wikipedia article

Flat Earth Debate / Re: Old video footage of space
« on: September 11, 2017, 12:56:21 PM »
Well I have several issues with this.

The first is that the camera is supposed to be controlled by Houston. With a 4 second round trip for the speed of light, how does the camera operator manually anticipate the lift off perfectly and get a centered shot, and focus as the craft rises? He anticipates it all? 4 seconds ahead of time?
We've been over and over this, but I'll cover it again.  The answer is Yes, the camera tilt was calculated ahead of time.  The camera on the lunar rover was operated from Earth by a NASA engineer named Ed Fendell.  Because of the signal delay between the moon and the Earth, as you mentioned, he had to start sending the command to "pan up" the camera a couple seconds before the module actually launched, based on the countdown clock running in Mission Control.  You can read his account of the event on pages 60-61 of this interview transcript.  He and a colleague had pre-calculated where the camera needed to be aimed at each second of flight, and Ed sat in Houston sending incremental commands to the camera, working blind.  They didn't know if they had good footage until afterward.  There were only three lunar missions with rovers: Apollo 15-17.  On 15 the motor to tilt the camera burned out, so no footage.  On 16 the crew parked the rover in the wrong spot, so Fendell's pre-calculated camera angles were useless with no time for new calculations, so no footage.  17 was the last chance, and they got it.

Batteries have a narrow operating range ... especially batteries in the in 1960s. How do they keep this battery in a 20 degree band on the moon? Its all nonsense.
The same way you do it on earth: thermal insulation and heaters.  Today's electric cars have heaters in/around the battery compartment to keep the battery at operating temperature, for example.  This does rob the vehicle of some range, since power for those heaters comes from the same battery powering the drive motors.  However, that's still worth doing, because the car would be essentially inoperable if you just allowed the battery to cool down.  I commute in a Nissan Leaf, and for more than two years now I have been tracking its performance.  I get maximum range with outside air temps between 70-80 F, and see an approximately linear decrease in miles per kilowatt-hour as temperatures drop.  At freezing temps, the battery heater draws so much power that my driving range is cut in half.

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